institute director levin will offer his thoughts on how americans could can rebuild commitment to their institutions. as a side note, mr. levin will be our guest live on "in depth" on sunday, april 5th. now here's a look at the relationship between george washington and benjamin franklin. >> good evening. welcome to the atlanta history center on this incredible wet night, and i really appreciate all of you coming out tonight and braving the weather to hear our author talk tonight by edward j. larson. now, this talk is being recorded by c-span, so be sure to silence your mobile telephonic devices. you don't want to be embarrassed on nationwide cable. this evening larson will discuss his newest book, "franklin and

washington." it has been named one of "the washington post"'s ten books to read in february and one of "usa today"'s must-read books of winter 2020. pulitzer prize-winning historian and author wood commented that larson easel wently written duel biography reveals that the partisanship of franklin and washington was indispensable to the success of the revolution. larson is a prolific author, speaker and darling chair in law at pepperdine university. he is making his seventh appearance at the atlanta history center. we're delighted to welcome him back. larson is also the co-author of 18 books and hundreds of articles. he's lectured on seven continents and regularly contributes to the bbc, cnn, fox news, msnbc and npr. larson won the pulitzer prize for history in 1998 for his book "summer of the gods." america's continuing debate over

science and religion. i must emphasize, and i'm sure to remind him every time during each of his seven appearances here that his pulitzer prize was awarded when he taught history after the university of georgia. since absconding to california, he has numerous well-deserved honors but no pulitzer. [laughter] there are no quince departments. [laughter] coincidences. turns out that humidity carries it own rewards. [laughter] please join me in welcoming edward larson. [applause] ghg thank you. -- >> thank you. thank you, all. and it is -- the reason why i've been here so often is, ine deed, because i taught for 20 years, as those of you who are bulldogs would know franklin college at the university of georgia. hence, my interest in the subject. leapt me begin this way -- let me begin this way, my dear

friend, my dear friend. that was the, those were the last words that benjamin franklin addressed to george washington. they came to at the end of a ler written in what franklin knew would be the last year of his life. washington closed his response to franklin with the salutation, your sincere friend. in this exchange written in the first year of washington's presidency, each expressed -- and i'm quoting here -- undying respect is and affection for the other. franklin adding esteem and washington topping him with veneration. at the time, franklin and washington were the two most admired individuals in the united states. which is why franklin college all the way down in georgia, the state university -- it wasn't called university of georgia, it was called franklin college. and they were the most famous

americans in the world. their final letters to each other represented a fitting end to a three-decade partnership that more than any other pairing would forge the american nation. their relationship began during the french and indian war when franklin supplied the wagons for british general edward braddock's ill-fated assault on fort due cane. and washington buried the general's body under the dirted road traveled by those retreating wagons. they warned braddock against the attack, you'll be cut to pieces going through the woods, which they were. rekindled in 1775 during the second continentalling congress, this friendship continued through the revolution, the

constitutional convention and the establishment of the federal government. perhaps because of the differences in the background, the age, the manner, the public image their relationship was not wide hi commented on -- widely commented on then and remains little discussed today which is why i decided to write a book about it. but it existed and helped to shape the course of american history. both have been hailed by biographers as, and i'm quoting from the title to have book, as the first americans. but they were also friends. and up like, say, adams and jefferson, never rivals. both were comfortable in their own skin and knew who they were and were confident people. their relationship gained historical significance, of course, during the american revolution when franklin led america's diplomatic mission to europe and washington commanded

the continental army. victory required both of these efforts to succeed, and their success required, required coordination. this historic collaboration when coupled with their role as to two most prominent delegates to the constitutional convention helped the nation in a global experience in explisht republican rule. our interest in that in these times to think about leadership that works. how did these men work together? we know they had their differences, but how did they work together so seamlessly to create the united states? now, this is a different sort of partnership. usually when historians write about partnerships, they talk about partnerships, hierarchical partnerships. and hamilton, for example, or jefferson and adams where you can follow them neatly because one is easily supporting the work of the other.

here we're talking about a partnership of equals, a partnership of two men who by the time of the revolution were larger than life heroes already. they went to the sec continental congress -- second continental congress already the most famous americans. but there are that sort of cooperation, that sort of partnership of equals. to just give a few examples so you all know, think of world war ii. roosevelt, franklin delano roosevelt and churchill. both were necessary to defeat germany. they were equals. both had a huge history. both were already larger than life, and yet they worked together for a common goal. or thinking down here, a local boy, lyndon baines johnson and martin luther king.

both were necessary to pass the several rights act. each were important. and if you try to put one over the other like one movie, "selma," tries to do, it doesn't tell the whole story. this was truly a partnership of equals who worked together. for me, that created a writing challenge. and which was part of the fun of the book. how to tell this joint story when they're not always -- where they have a separate story of their own. and is so what i ended up doing was having to trace or sketch both of their stories to show who they were, and then when they came together periodically -- such as in the french and indian war or during the american revolution or the constitutional convention, then dig deeply of how these two great and good men worked together. so to just begin, and i'll tell

a few other stories. to just begin, the french and indian war. now, what first brought them together because franklin, by this time, by hard work and sheer brilliance had risen in philadelphia from being an immigrant from boston, a runaway indentured servant to being one of the richest men in the new world with a chain of print shops running all up and down the east coast and she grated back -- grated backward into paper mills, also being a leading america humorist and writer, also being an inventor with the franklin stove already and a world famous scientist because of electricity. and when the french and indian war comes, came, it was fought over the ohio country. that is the area around pittsburgh with, the focus of the ohio, it's called, into

eastern ohio, western pennsylvania, new jersey. and because of the fluke, because of errors in the original colonial land grants, pennsylvania had a claim going directly west including the ohio cup. and virginia had a claim, a straight line at the bottom, but the potomac up. and that meant that both claimed the ports of ohio, and both were projecting settlers back there. both were investing back there. then in the 1850s -- 1750s, the french moved in. they invade. they already had louisiana, they already had canada, and they decided they'd a take the ohio live valley to connect the two more conveniently. and so they sent in an army. and they raised up the native americans to attack the pennsylvania and virginia settlers.

franklin was made commander in chief and the creator of the pennsylvania militia. by happenstance in the death of his brother who was the leader of the virginia militia, lawrence washington, washington became -- at a young age, franklin was in his 40s, washington was in his 20s -- became commander in chief of the virginia militia. so they had to fight together against the french. and this is when they first got together. many meetings, many times, many coordinations. franklin turns out to be a brilliant strategist, he knew just where to put the force the protect his, the pennsylvanians. washington goes in there, and they work together in various occasions. ultimately, leading to a joint army freeing the fort due ez

cezny. they learned the same lessons. from their work as the officers in charge of the militias of the respective colony it is during the french and indian war, they learn similar lessons. first, they learn that the french had different objectives from their american colonists. the british wanted to keep the colonies divided and dependent, franklin concluded, is and would readily tax them without representation. washington found the british willing to -- unwilling to secure the frontier except on, as it served their larger geopolitical interests. and after the colonists won it, they took it back with a proclamation of 1776. 1763. second, franklin and washington learnedded that american -- learned that american colonists

would always remain subordinate9 to their british counterparts. washington pleaded for a royal commission, as his brother had, without receiving one is and was compelled as a colonel in the virginia militia to submit to the lowest of british officers. and for franklin, when pennsylvania's proprietors who still ran that colony within broad parameter it is set by parliament heard of his appointment after the war as the assembly's agent in london, they dismissed his influence in england. cool, he sneered, mr. franklin's popularity e is nothing here. he will be looked or -- on very coldly by the great people. third, the american colonies, they both concluded, would benefit from greater unity as reflected in frank lip's albany plan -- franklin's albany plan which he proposed during this

period, tying the colonist together, and washington's call for joint intercolonial military action to beat the french. after all, it was a force composed of troops from five colonies not england that finally drove the french. this experience made washington, as much as franklin, a believer in the union. these three lessons might suggest benefits from american independence but were insufficient to support it as a realistic option. a final shared lesson carried more weight. despite the war's ultimate outcome, the british were beatable in new world combat. they both concluded. as franklin wrote about the battle that troyed the british army -- destroyed the british army and killed general braddock, this whole transaction

gave us americans the first suspicion that our exalted ideas of the prowess of the british regulars was not well founded. washington had been there to see it and reported that at least in frontier fighting, virginia soldiers outperformed british regulars. if put to the test, they might do so again. coupled with the disastrous effects of british colonial policy following the french and indian war, these shared lessons, these four shared lessons helped to nurture the revolutionary spirit that brought franklin and washington back together again a quarter sentingly later to fight and forge new american union. ..

his brother lawrence's death inherited mount vernon. use this time to turn what was a failing tobacco plantation because played out soil into a very successful collection of fried wheat farm with grain mills, eventually with the largest whiskey distillery in the new world brilliant entrepreneurship on his part. a new war brought them back together in 1735 m this is a story we all sort of know but if you place it out if you follow it closely, if you watch the different steps rather than look in broad terms you see this next phase has three stages. three separate stages. first there was while they were both at philadelphia the second

continental congress washington selected by virginia, franklin came home and selected by pennsylvania. when they arrived in philadelphia they were the two superstars. from the very beginning they were heroes of the french and indian war. franklin was also famous as a diplomat and the two of them were appointed to virtually every committee. they had to work together on the same committees. certainly every committee involving war and diplomacy. then at franklin's urging washington promoted as commander in chief and goes up to boston to cambridge to oversee the siege of boston where a ragtag militia of about 16,000 men had trapped 5000 british regulars, held them confined in boston but of course the british had the navy so they can always leave but they were powerless to move forward. washington goes in and takes over this army and becomes

commander-in-chief.partly at with franklin's support and urging. then franklin is left in charge of most of the work committee. he regularly meets with washington he goes up to cambridge to meet with them at the siege of boston goes to new jersey to meet when the war moves down to new york and when washington sends troops to conquer canada franklin goes with them. and tries to persuade the canadian people to view this invading army as an army of liberation.the guy was 70 years old. at the battlefront. people didn't live as long then. i could go into the various details of their meetings together. that's what i try to explore the book. let me bring two things forward from this period, franklin's

prior experience in london and during the french and indian war let him to foresee sooner than most of the others most of the delegates the need for undertaking two fundamental reforms which wasn't enjoined in them. he consistently spoke of america rather than the colonies. believing the british could only be defeated in liberty only secured through effort. this is first ãbalyssa kevin click the plan of union french and indian war franklin introduced similar draft constitution in july 1775. it ends up not being adopted they go the articles of confederation but we will get to that.

clearly federal in nature each colony retain control over matters peculiar key health concepts that he later pushed at the constitutional convention including personal representation in congress and centralized power over interstate commerce or enter colonial commerce, war, peace, foreign affairs, western land. he was a great leader in the need for the frontier. in such domestic matters as thought "necessary to the general welfare. these would become exactly the same issues that by the end of the war washington also embraced when he wrote his final great document as a general before stepping down the circular letter to the states what he said this article confederate isn't working we have chaos and the same issues because he worked with franklin. the same issues franklin raised the raised in circular letter to the state which would

eventually lead into the constitutional convention. second, while many patriots blinded by faith in their cause believe that citizen soldiers quickly vanquish hireling army franklin sobered by experience dealing with obstinate british leaders foresaw a long war. some soldiers and part-time militias could not win such a war only a unified discipline force. as troops leaving boston not only did washington face the daunting task of transforming volunteer militia men from various colonies into a single continental army, he had to do so knowing that most of the men he inherited at boston had signed on only to the end of 1775 confronted with an army of professional soldiers franklin and washington knew the army needs to be reconstitution on a more purpose permanent basis with them answering for the duration as congress came

around to this the militia commission began expiring with the british still embedded in boston it was assigned franklin to multiple committees charged with performing the army working with washington to do this and this brought him back in ãb of course they continued then franklin gets sent to europe to be the chief diplomat after the declaration of independence and derek their work together becomes even more important because washington knows he can only win with the fort of the french. at times during the revolutionary war most of our soldiers did not even have shoes and maybe didn't have shirts and franklin had to negotiate shoes and shirts and guns and cannons and ships from the french and money to pay the soldiers. the last three years of the war

the soldiers didn't get paid. it was only the french money that allowed it. and then he arranged for rochambeau and the french army to come over and the navy to come over and the final victory at yorktown was a coordinated effort with more french troops surrounding yorktown then american troops. the french navy outside all of which franklin and washington had coordinated. they had to work closely together indeed franklin served as a vetting agent for washington to see what foreign soldiers would help. so von steuben, polansky, ãb all vetted first with franklin and franklin wrote them notes to washington saying, it's up to you whether you want him but this man will help. this man will be a good man. the three key and you could ask mothers, all came via franklin to washington.

let me jump ahead, i could tell plenty more about the revolution. let me jump ahead to the constitutional convention where before it even began, washington joined with franklin and the other delegates from virginia and pennsylvania who had been the first to get to philadelphia to draft what became known as the virginia plan because it was introduced by the virginia governor randolph. to introduce the articles of federation with a centralized constitution with power over just the thing that franklin and washington had been asking for. centralized power over war and peace international commerce the power to tax and spend for the general welfare state power over the frontier, power consolidated power over the military. these were what they had been

arguing for and those which appear in the virginia planet would eventually work their way into the when washington arrived in philadelphia as soon as he dropped his bag franklin is now 80 years old, after he dropped his bag at robert morrison's house he goes immediately to meet with franklin and goes to franklin's house. they meet regularly during the constitution convention because they know they are together because of their stature keys to his success. they both had been pushed for having a constitutional convention in the first two states call for constitutional convention were washington virginia and franklin pennsylvania. in addition to countless lesser additions and alterations, turning the virginia plan, which had been developed to

have a time into a frame constitution requires three major compromises or innovations. each of which engage the talents of franklin and washington. it shows how they work together and also had their differences. foremost among these was so-called great compromise. restructuring congress to have a proportionally representative popular elected house of representatives in the senate with equal representation for each state. although franklin favored a popular elected unit carmel legislature in washington favored a popular elected lower house proportional to the states population and it choosing a proportional morally senate. in both cases the proportional representation based on population franklin was one of the first to realize that

wasn't going to fly. they weren't gonna get the small state to go along. he foresaw the final compromise earlier than anyone else. and helped to broker it. indeed while led by franklin's washington virginia and franklin's pennsylvania and majority of ãbin both houses of congress determined minority mostly from a small state demanded equal representation and threatened to scuttle any deal without it. this was a fight over principal with practical education. the contest full representation was not finally resolved for two months. taking a major on both sides in this pragmatic way that attended to bring people together franklin shown here in a picture mural in the us capital how we work together that's franklin garden below his mulberry tree where he brings delegates together

including washington to try to work out the sort of deals and washington is a key compromise as well they work very closely together. franklin says at the convention, if proportional representation takes place the small states contended their liberty will be in danger. ãb knowing we are met here to do something franklin urged the convention to act like a carpenter who when framing a table from two planks of uneven parse takes a little from both and makes a good joint. the result was our senate and house resulting. indeed after finally working the deal when it was all dead stop and nobody would come a point is to a committee, the committee he picked included franklin and moderates who could work out something and come back with that compromise

and then washington got behind it in the compromise past. because otherwise they wouldn't have been the constitution. as the delegates pushed on, debates over the presidency, a second big issue, consumed more time at convention that goes on any other topic and was not resolved to the end. here these people were living in the shadow of a dictatorial british monarch and they had no experience with creating an elected leader. having agreed to begin working to the virginia plan the delegates reach this resolution was on the executive on june 1. these called for national executive chosen by congress like a parliamentary democracy. besides the general authority over executing national laws it stated this officer ought to enjoy all the executive rights vested in congress by the confederation. those extensive executive

rights include all those once held by the british monarch later vested in congress the provision gave vast powers to the president which meant one thing when the president was chosen by congress.but quite another thing when they later innovated electoral college and separate election of the president. beyond executing laws the king held direct authority over war and peace the military foreign affairs appointing officers and judges and granting pardons. since the articles of confederation vested these powers in congress they might go to the executive under the virginia plan. then they might not. the resolution was frustrating bag on this. perhaps because washington this is a drawing at the convention would it look like after the convention perhaps because washington presumed first president was sitting among them will the delegates reach these resolutions they all fell silent. after brief comment by supporters of the strong executive a considerable pause in the chair asked of the delegates were ready to pass

provisions. coming from washington delegation no one seemed inclined to cross the great washington. washington is equal and this is a picture of franklin during the convention, and never wanted of her franklin boasts of silence and besides the structure of the executive is a great importance. he urged delegates to deliver before the question was put. this comments burst the dam and flooded the room for four days with the discussion still raging, franklin said to his fellow delegates ãbthe first man put up the home will be a good one. the executive will always be increasing here as elsewhere until it ends invested to them. favoring a week executive at one point or another adding

provisions for impeachment and removal from office. as franklin put it at the convention it would be best to provide in the constitution for the regular punishment of the executive what its misconduct should deserve it and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused. washington for his part consistently supported a strong executive and carried most of the states with them. the third congress compromised of course you all know about it famously involves slavery. let me state that. that's one that splits franklin and washington. when he gets this get to the end of the constitutional convention. surveying the final product evolve from the virginia plan this man had introduced edmund randolph in washington's neighbor george mason warned the delegates that such a constitution with its vaguely defined but clearly engrossed

presidency and fundamentally reconstructed senate would, using randolph's words, would end either in monarchy or tyrannical aristocracy. they both voted against it. franklin had expressed similar concerns throughout the proceedings and they thought he was going to join them and by joining them, scuttle the constitution because of his authority but in part due to his trust in george washington as the first president and been part because he believed in a stronger federal union was absolutely essential. that is the alternative doing nothing was worse. he accepted the final draft. his lingering worries, however, may account for his widely quoted answer to the grand dame of pennsylvania high society elizabeth powell which she allegedly asked him after the convention ended if it created the republic or monarchy. he replied, a republic, if you can keep it. riddled with compromise and ãb

washington neighbor an old friend who he never spoke to again after this mr. mason riddled with these compromises at core this was washington's constitution. especially with respect to the presidency. after the convention approves it, he declared washington declared in the aggregate it's the best constitution that could be obtained in this e-book in particular, washington defended the powers given to congress as "no more than indispensably necessary to perform the functions of good government. and never doubted the broad authority conferred on the president even after lafayette his beloved lafayette writing to him from france singled out "the extensive powers of the executive as one of only four points along with no bill of rights, no guarantee of jury trial, and no presidential term limits, questioned by european philosophers who reviewed the

documents. in his reply washington gave ground only on the bill of rights and guaranteed jury trial by suggesting that those in due course amendment could provide for. franklin shared anti-federalist concerns over presidential power and wanted a more democratic constitution. but endorsed the final draft is better than nothing. " i agree to this constitution with all its faults, he told fellow delegates in a major prepared speech delivered at the convention's last day. because i think the general government is necessary for us. there is no form of government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered or a bane if poorly ministered. franklin understood the division splitting the convention and opting to support whatever compromise could produce a workable federal government. if the states met again he warned his fellow delegates it

would only be for the purpose for cutting one another's throats. with a nod to washington, franklin expressed his faith that the constitution i'm quoting here is likely to be well administered for a course of years yet at that time predicted that it would, not made, but would end in despotism as other forms are done before when the people shall be so corrupted as to needing this body of government. if you weeks later, washington said virtually the same thing in a private letter to his nephew, ãblater became justice of supreme court, when he wrote that popular government works only so long as the people have virtue. franklin and washington embraced the constitution because it realized their long-held ambition for fortified federal government was consolidated authority over

commerce since the frontier and taxation. washington secured a strong independent presidency that franklin saw was overly monarchical. coming from large states and fundamentally nationally wanted neither washington or franklin favored a summit with two members from each state but both accepted as a necessary compromise. southern delegates including washington also scored critical safeguards for slavery that many northern get delegates including franklin hoped would fail. it tells much about the rational pragmatism and faith in republican virtue that despite its compromises franklin and washington still fully accepted the constitution and worked so hard to get it ratified. the franklin also working for washington to be the first president. let me go back briefly to the compromise over slavery i had skipped over, i didn't skip over in the book and the time

and bring it back up as our last closing encounter. slavery was one manner that unbridgeable he divided franklin's and washington. just as it became the subject as we all know they had worked so long to knit together. coming from the south knowing full where the issues of divisiveness born into a slaveholding family washington owned over 100 slaves and controlled nearly 200 more from his white dowry. during and after the revolution critics of slavery from quaker abolitionist to his much loved military aid lafayette and also hamilton pleaded with washington to denounce the institution publicly or at least set an example by freeing his own slaves. while he sometimes simplifies with much reason private he

always equivocated. meanwhile, the number of his own slaves increased he never freed any of them during his lifetime. he proceeded those that ran away. those in human bondage knew he was private face never saw washington as a liberator in many tried to escape whenever the british troops got near during the revolutionary war. not so franklin, since taking the reins of the pennsylvania abolition society in the spring of 1787 during his second term as governor of pennsylvania he took three terms in that role between that war and the constitutional convention franklin assumed that ever more prominent position criticizing the slave trade and urging emancipation he pleaded with influential slaveholders such as virginia governor edmund randolph, washington first attorney general, to free their slaves and urge new hampshire governor john langdon to stop

the states merchant shippers from participating in the slave trade. franklin hosted both men in his home during the convention and felt free pressed on the issue. his strategy on slavery which clearly he expressed was to bring the southern states into fortified federal union under the constitution and have the government work toward abolition. he didn't wait long. his final assault on slavery took the form of a petition to congress in 1790 that he sighed as president of the pennsylvania abolition society. declaring "that equal liberty was originally the portion and still the birthright of all men he called among the members of congress to "step to the very urge powers invested to you for discouraging every species of trafficking in the persons of our fellow men, paraphrasing the constitution he wrote "those powers included promoting the welfare and securing the blessings of

liberty to the people of the united states". those blessings are rightfully to be administered section of color to all descriptions of people. he supported this petition in the press, he was an able writer of course. for the slashing slaveholders defense of the institution. this drew on his newspaper background the history of assuming fictional guidance such as richard saunders in the ãbalmanac and do good to make his point. georgia congressman james jackson who delivered a major speech in the two weeks the congress would stop cold debating franklin's petitions mocking jackson's speech to congress against the anti-slave petition franklin had mohammed

abraham, this algerian divine asked regarding what europeans then enslaved in great numbers in north africa what is so pitiable in their present condition? is there condition made worse by their falling into our hands? for here they are brought into a land where the sun of islamism gives for red light and shines at full splendor and have the opportunity of making themselves appointed with the true doctrine and thereby stated their immortal soul. moderate satire relies on cultural relativism. here franklin explained his modernity. while serving us we take care to provide with everything he had abraham say about arabs and their european slaves, laborers in their own country are ãb the speech can know what concluded by affirming that the koran condemn slavery and

franklin drew directly from the biblical verse in ephesians 6:5 was cited by jackson in his speech to congress. slaves, serve your masters with cheerfulness. no reader could mistake franklin's meaning. washington privately fumed denouncing franklin's intervention as this is about as strong of a word as washington would use, untimely. washington's only decisive act to get slavery came in freeing his own by as well. to reveal his intention of freeing his slaves and then postponing their release until his widow died during the act of his potential political and social significance. trusted aides like lafayette and henry lauren from south carolina or alexander hamilton from new york and prominent abolitionists including virginia quicker robert pleasant had urged washington to act earlier, ideally during the idealistic theater of the american revolution when it

might have made a difference. instead washington could neither explain his motives nor present his final act as a model for other slaveholders. even his wife, who owned most of the slaves at mount vernon as her dower property did not follow his lead and kept the mid stray children allegedly by her father have sisters and son and grandchildren in slaves southern slaveholders easily dismissed washington's deathbed act in northern abolitionists struggled to give it meeting. no one can know what might've happened had the two i counseled the revolution, franklin and washington, stood together again slavery at the nation's founding. certainly some of their contemporary ãthought it could've been the difference. as it happens they split over the issue and with them the nation. washington and southern states retain their ãbfranklin northern states rejected the institution. virginia abolitionists, robert

pleasant, who i mentioned before, closed his 1784 letter to washington with a warning notwithstanding thou art now received the tributes of praise from grateful people the time is coming when all actions will be weighed in unequal balance and undergo impartial examination how inconsistent then would it appear to posterity to be recorded at the great general washington would keep the number of people in absolute slavery who are by nature entitled to freedom as much to freedom as himself. the same test that pleasance puts out applies to all founders. despite their flaws, franklin and washington held up better than most leaders of any age. there is a founding partnership that launched a nation.

a year later the ever famous one early to and wise generations of american took franklin maxims to heart and credited them as their way to wealth. just as surely, generations of intellectual from edgar allen poe to f scott fitzgerald marked ãbmarked franklin. if franklin was a man of many faces, who as a author hid behind masks ranging from his first, the witty widow, silenced a good to his last "the arab flavor" judging franklin solely from his richard funders guide, they hope to do them justice. washington is much the same. he did not wear multiple masks

but he so carefully cultivated the firm face of republican virtue that he once famously cautioned the great portion next gilbert stewart who drew the painting on your one dollar bill. "my countenance never yet betrayed my feelings. this aspect of washington personality can make it difficult to see behind his public image. add as it is to look behind franklin's multiple guises now the pennsylvania printer and the virginia ãappeared too dissimilar to maintain a lasting friendship especially since the former posed as a man of the people in the latter above them. yet focusing on their distinct public images obscured their fundamental similarities. hard-working and entrepreneurial franklin and washington had successful business careers outside government and never view themselves primarily as

politicians. both prospered as colonists and supported royal rule until realizing britain would never extend basic english rights to america. jealous of their liberties they turned against the crown and never looked back. each nurtured lifelong relationships with both men and women. natural leaders, people trusted them and they trusted other people. both men listened more than they talked. compromised on means to secure ends, relied on others and sacrificed for the common good and never wavered. both were reformers, franklin compulsively saw problems in trying to fix them. franklin fixes from mechanical

tomorrow, lightning rods and bifocals to constitutions and popular ãshaped by the enlightenment franklin in washington shared a republican ideology and a progressive faith that relied on human reason and divine providence rather than traditional ways and establish dogma. they sought truth and accepted fax, life could get better they maintained theirs did. as the old order collapsed around them, they crafted a better one to replace it. one that has lasted over two centuries. they did not see it as perfect and never thought it would last forever. if the people allowed it, franklin warned even the constitution for all its virtues will lead to tyranny. the presidency serving as he

called it the constitutional convention this ãbof the king. the example of franklin washington, shows what individuals can do in times of faction fracture and failure. if we dig deep in our history ã ãand our doctrine and remember we are not descended from fearful men. he surely has the alexa washington and franklin in mind. on the onset of world war ii, the war that made moral famous. it is for freedom speech error franklin delano roosevelt quoted franklin those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety. franklin was more than a pennsylvania printer,

washington much more than a tight water planner. they were larger-than-life and american originals. this partnership in revolutionary times made the foundation for the world's first continental public. which is lasted for nearly 250 years. each recognize the other's goodness and greatness. despite their critics, franklin was elected to his state's highest office unanimously. twice. and washington elected to his nation's highest office unanimously, twice. central to their republican conceptions of service both men willingly relinquished their ã ãto return to public positions. both preferred private life to public power. they were in the two

indispensable americans franklin and washington the founding partnerships. thank you. [applause] thank you very much. we have time for some questions. >> wait until i bring the microphone. >> i would be happy, i wrote a lot more than was in this talk. [laughter] >> as a professional historian and you remain in all that we had guys like this in the right place at the right time? >> i do. both of them, we have to listen to what they said, both of them honestly would think of franklin whatever we hear about think about his religious views. neither were conventional christians but both lead with

divine providence. they both believed that god forced the divine separated created american something new under the sun. they both were children of the enlightenment. and as were governor morris or edmund randolph. or john hancock. we just keep naming these people who were central to this role. thomas jefferson, john adams, samuel adams, quite a laundry list abraham baldwin. so yes, it's impressive. i think people rise to the occasion they had gone through the crucible of the war and especially in the south, there was a real crucible. tempered by that they had a vision for something special and they brought together tremendous insight and created, they work flawless, they themselves recognized this

electoral college. it's got problems and the senate and some of the structures they had problems with. some of them they did not support. franklin wanted the direct elections of the president as did james wilson and numerous from pennsylvania. alexander hamilton from new york. they had their differences but they realized something was necessary and they were committed to creating this country and it did a pretty good job. >> thank you mr. larson for being here at the atlanta history center. my question is do you think of thing and franklin was younger that washington might've included him in his cabinet or administration? >> i think if franklin had been younger, both washington and franklin would have both each

served as president. they were larger-than-life. and you look at them, here here in georgia the first thing we did after the revolution was create the college the first college created state college created after the revolution and renamed it franklin college it wasn't university of georgia. the whole thing was franklin college. you look around the country and most states have franklin county to this day and washington county these people were larger-than-life originals. if you look at, and i go at great length in this. if you look at the ratification debates in every state in every debate in every newspaper article the constant refrain of the federalist was, if franklin and washington designed this or franklin or washington are before this or washington and

franklin, whatever order they put it in, how can it not work these are two people we trust. they had this stature but of course franklin at the time of the constitution mentioned he was over 80 years old. he had just completed, actually, he was still in his third term as governor back from france and elected governor of pennsylvania he served three terms. he makes joe biden look young. [laughter] he remained as sharp as a tax. i could say mayor bloomberg look young. he was in no position to be president at that age he ends up only surviving one term. it would've been a teamwork otherwise but franklin was 100% more than that as much as you can be behind washington he had great doubts about the constitution but he had tremendous faith in george washington as the first leader.

he pushed her ratification pennsylvania becomes the first large state to ratify virginia the last large state both critical to success and through it all he's pushing washington to be president. there wasn't any doubt in his mind he had to be president. certainly age was a factor because franklin was literally a generation older than washington. this was back when people didn't live as long as they do now. thank you. >> is it true we did not finish repaying our debt back to france after the revolutionary war? and secondly, we ended up turning her back on the french and trading with the british which led to the quasi-war, why did we do that? >> did questions. i will have to direct you to a different book i wrote. [laughter] the magnificent catastrophe, with dealing with that. washington and franklin both

and if you read washington's farewell address as president he really warns about two things, he warns against partisanship and he warns against entangling alliances with foreign countries. franklin felt exactly the same way. franklin came back to pennsylvania the reason why he was willing to serve as governor when he was in his mid-70s was because the state was being torn apart by two parties and he was the one person, elected unanimously, both sides accepted as arbitrator. as a result, one of the two states that successful during the period is pennsylvania, thanks to franklin's leadership. he still thought there should be a larger union.

new york was the other successful state and then georgia was not, george was a very much failed state over two thirds of its territory words reconquer because they couldn't protect it by native americans and were printing money like crazy and it was massive inflation in georgia. there were problems in a lot of states. and those problems help lead to not replaying ãbthe revolution came in france and hamilton argued, with some grounds, this is in the government we borrowed money from. this is a different government. it was a very useful argument. he argued the same thing when it came to continuing to support france that this isn't the government we have an alliance with and washington used his power under the constitution to aggregate the treaty. only congress can make the treaty as to approve it but ending the treaty, washington claimed, i could go all by myself. so he did.he ended that treaty but franklin too as a negotiator when he was a delegate when he was working over as the ambassador to france, he was constantly

paying the french even against the english, i will go deal with them or the dutch or whatever, they were both i guess to use the phrase they considered the interest of their country first. and they needed to cut a niche for america at a time when we were struggling little country on the edge of the european world and france and england were the two superpowers. they were both negotiating between those two and washington, because he lived longer, and was president, ended up doing those items you suggest. that was the reason because that was by then an american self-interest. .......

>> slavery was one area where they- so they talked about them frankly. they talked about the difference frankly. franklin was pushed as a delegate, to push at the constitution to end slavery. he decided -- or to have the constitution -- he decides we'll never get a constitution if we do that. so he shoveledded off his -- it appears he shoveledded off his criticisms of slavery to governor morris. they sat next to each other at the convention. and instead, bided his time. so there was a place that they differed. they differed somewhat over the powers of the presidency because franklin had written the constitution of pennsylvania which had a weak executive, but when you had a strong leader

like franklin, was very effective. washington, look at the chaos after the revolutionary war, thought -- and looking at europe with its monarchs, thought we needed a strong leader. so there were differences. but they met together, worked them over and, of course, we saw franklynn -- franklin push for washington to be the first president despite issues they differed on. but they basically agreed on so much more than they differed. they believed in unity. they believed in a unified government. they both were, with by nature, compromisers. in the sense never compromises on principle, they believed in liberty, they believed in property rights, they believed in american independence, they believed in american destiny, they believed in settling the frontier, but they realized to get anything done in a government of the people, which is how washington describes it in his inaugural address, government of the people, that

people -- you don't is have a monarch that can order around. we need to compromise, we need to work together on means to secure essential ends. and since they both had this spirit and they both did hike, they both took counsel and they both didn't crave credit, they both willingly -- franklin almost compulsively so -- tried to share credit with others. but washington too. and that was their nature. so that allowed -- i think there's another element too. franklin was a humorist. he was a storyteller, a very clever storyteller. and some of his stories and observations might be a little bit on the off-color side. washington was not a storyteller, he was very stern, but he loved to joke. especially a little bit of an off-color joke. and so while franklin was a

back-slapper, and i can't imagine washington ever slapping a back -- [laughter] the pairing worked quite well. and they both loved books, they both loved things in common, they both were very proud of their houses and liked to show each other, show them off. they both were wonderful entertainers. they both -- well, franklin didn't used to drink, but he learned to drink wine in france and came back as an expert with wine. washington always loved wine and knew how -- they knew how to share that, share their commonalities. so they were the types of people who liked other people and got along with other people and really had lasting friendships. and that is a wonderful trait and a special trait that they shared together. so that helpedded them to work together -- helped them to work together despite their differences. yes. >> i know that washington was a

land speculator from a very young age. >> yes. >> was franklin also a land speculator? and the fact that after the french and the indian war the british, as part of the peace agreement, drew a line down the crest of the appalachian mountains and said that no more settlers could go west of that line, now, this seems to me it had to be a big motivator to the revolution because these two men and many others that were speculators wanted to sell their land that they had speculated in and wanted settlers to be able to go across that line. and they were quite determined about it. >> i agree with you that the

proclamation of 1763 by the british contributed as much as anything, certainly the stamp act, the tea act, they were all critical as well. but that, removing the frontier was critical. and i wouldn't say it was just the land speculators. you can read the writings, the private writings of washington and the public writings of franklin, and both of them believed in the frontier. franklin -- washington was much more a speculator. he did not know he was going to inherit any land. he thought his land, basically the land in virginia, mount vernon, was going to go to his older brother because back then everything in virginia was passed down to the oldest son, and it was just the fortuitous event that both his older brothers died that he ended up getting vernon. and thereafter with mount vernon got martha washington and brought even more money into the project. but so he thought he was going to have to make his way on the

and became fabulously wealthy as a printer there. he also invested some in frontier land, but the more important thing was they both conceived of the frontier as essential to what made america different. you can see this in their writings, you can see thises thn the writings of other people at the time. they believed what made americans lovers of liberty, what made them open to improvement is they could always go to the frontier and start over. they could invest there, as you say, but they could also move there themselves like a daniel boone. and it was the option of the frontier keeping the openness of the west that made america

different than europeans. jefferson would pick that up. the farm terse on the frontier -- farmers on the frontier were the american future. it was the source of liberty to these people. and they believed that taking away the frontier was just going to turn americans into a bunch of serfs. and so they believed deeply that america needed the frontier. so not only did that help lead to the revolution, the proclamation of 1763, even though virtually the entire war was fought on the coast. and america had done nothing to win the frontier. when franklin negotiated the peace, he insisted on getting the frontier all the way to the mississippi. and it was, he pushed for that, and he said when -- better to give it to an independent, you know, he used all these arguments. because to him, getting -- he would not agree, he put down essentials. we will not agree the peace

without. and it wasn't just the elector of the 13 colonies -- the liberty of the 13 colonist on the coast, it was also the frontier going all the way to the mississippi. washington and franklin both deeply believed in the frontier as fundamental to america. thank you. >> as someone in their mid 20s, can you speak a little more to the formative years, the growth of these two pioneers, specifically growth of the mind, of habits? >> that's a wonderful question. and i try to cover that in some fashion in the book, because who -- what they were in their 20s and this their late teens made them what they were later. and franklin goes off, leaves boston, breaks his contract and starts his own business. works for others, he learned a trade already as an indentured

servant as a printer. first to go to new york, finds there's no need for a printer there, then goes on to pennsylvania. but he's always driven. he's driven. he starts -- neither of them have a formal education. he forms clubs to help him how to learn, he learns foreign languages. he was a driven man of self-improvement. he used to have contests with people to learn foreign languages. he worked, he knew what it would make to make other people respect him. so he would carry his own rolls of paper himself down the, down the street in philadelphia because he'd see that all these quaker merchants and bankers would see him working hard rather than having somebody else -- he didn't need to carry it himself, but he knew what he

needed to make his way the wealth. and he explained that and wrote about it. he built key friendships with important people. washington did exactly the same thing. he didn't know he was going to inherit wealth. he made friendships with the most important people around hike the fairfaxs. -- like the fairfaxs. he became a surveyor for them. he realized he could make money, as you point outside, as a speculator on the frontier. he could have taken a job along the coast that was safer but, no, he was camping out in the woods, surveying land because then he could do that under the employ of the -- [inaudible] but he could also puck out what were the best properties that he surveyed is and acquire them himself. so so they were both driven, entrepreneurial in nature, both knowing we're not going to do this alone. we're going to do this working with others. and so that's their way to to

wealth. and franklin ends up writing it up in a book, "the way to wealth," which becomes incredibly popular. and some of the richest people in american history like carnegie and james harper and others credited that book as their own way to wealth. so, yes, they were driven people who both wanted to do good. they believed in virtue, they believed in helping others. they both joined the masons and went up and became lead earth in the masons in their relative states because the masons offered them connections with others. they both worked extraordinarily hard to build their businesses. thank you. [applause] thank you for the questions. [applause] >> thank you all very much for coming tonight. as, the way to wealth, as franklin said, knowledge is the best, an investment in knowledge

pays the best interest. in alignment with that, tonight we have the 25% discount on books. [laughter] so the do-good discount is in effect. come buy a book. good night. thank you very much for coming. [applause] knox. >> here's a look at some of the events booktv will be covering this week. on monday at george washington's's the tate in mount vernon -- washington's estate in mount vernon -- [inaudible] on wednesday at the chicago council for global affairs, george bayman will offer his predictions on the political and social changes that the united states could see in the coming decade. and on thursday look for us at the new school in new york city for the national book critics' circle awards. all of these events are open to the public. if you're in attendance, take a

picture and tag us@booktv on twitter, facebook or instagram. >> this weekend on booktv, mayoral leadership, reflections from a watergate lawyer and the effect of a two-party political system on democracy. tonight at 11 p.m. eastern in the nation city, former chicago mayor and obama administration chief of staff rahm emmanuel on innovation at the local level in cities across the country. then on sunday at 7:50 p.m. eastern in her latest book "the watergate girl," jill line banks talks about her legal career including her role as one of the three assistant special prosecutors in the watergate case. and at 9 p.m. on "after words," new america senior fellow lee drutman argues that that the two-party system is damaging

america's democracy. >> what would be the chief advantages to having a multiparty democracy? >> democracy, i mean, democracy is always going to involve conflict because politics is conflict. the issue of consensus are not political issues. but the challenge is we need to have some system by which we can agree that some set of rules are fair and some set of procedures are fair, and we can abide by those outcomes. >> watch rahm emmanuel, jill line banks and "after words" with lee drutman this weekend on booktv. and be sure to tune in next weekend for our two-day live coverage of the tucson festival of books on booktv on c-span2. >> good evening, everyone. thank you so much for being with us, i am one of the co-directors of the