congress work across the aisle to make things happen in a bilateral fashion, but i think that it's also the people who are in office have in some ways benefited from the fact there hasn't been regulation. it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming year with the new election. >> i want to thank you all for coming out on the pandemic super tuesday. [applause]

welcome to the commonwealth club of california for our special program tonight. just a quick housekeeping of course if you have anything that makes noise on the cell phones, husbands, whatever if you can put them on sale an silent for t of the program we are recording this for tv and podcast. now i would like to turn it over to my cohost. >> if you are here for the first time we are covering everyone in between. our special guest tonight is the founder of the free radical project a global network of the former extremists who were they radicalizing others trying to weave the movement by providing counseling. he's an emmy award producer.

[applause] this is your second book and i flew through the 200 plus pages so quickly like a hungry child after school and because i was craving some of this truth. before we dive into all these truths, the book does share a story from other individuals you encountered whether direct or indirect and i think that we should start with telling your story and how that encounter lead you to the chicago area and america's first organized neo-nazi group.

>> thank you so much for having me. it is a privilege and honor a privilege becausanda privilege t often times people don't look like me or have a darker skin color, sometimes they don't get the same second chances that i do. so, i want to acknowledge that. you know, i was born on the southside osouth side of chicagn immigrant parents who worked very, very hard and grown-up come i didn't see them very often. they were working seven days a week, so i grew up kind of isolated and was searching for the sense of identity and purpose which i think most people do. and i found it in an alley while i was smoking a joint and demand that recruited me walked up to me, pulled the joint from my mouth, looked me in the eyes and says that the communists and the jews want you to do. i have to be honest i didn't know what the communists was.

it was the first time i felt somebody really salty and drew me in and i didn't know it at that time, but i have just been recruited at 14-years-old to america's first neo-nazi skinhead groups. the reward but i was getting is this kind of agency and this brotherhood.

there were questions about why he was involved in and it became increasingly hard to believe because i was afraid of going back to the nothingness that i have a 14. of course you did leave. can you tell us what did it for you? >> i don't think there was a day that i didn't question what i was involved in at least very quietly. but i also met people along the way that challenged me not in an

aggressive way or telling me i was wrong but just through a lived experience and getting to know them. i opened up a record store to sell racist music i was making and importing and a small section of hip-hop and punk and heavy metal never expecting anybody to come in to buy those things. it was just me saying i want to open a record store but i couldn't go in there to tell them i was going to make mafia music and people came in, people of color, people from the lgbtq community and it was the first time i had an interaction with people i kept out of my social circle and i recognized pretty quickly once that happened that actually i respected him more and liked them more and more than the people i surrounded myself with for eight years. eventually i became embarrassed to sell the music, i pulled it

from the shelves and it was 90% of my revenue so i had to close the stores. that gave me an opportunity to really disengage from the movement. my wife got married at 18 and had her first son and she never was supportive of what i was involved in. even though i had sitting in front of me this purpose of being a father and a husband i still didn't see it at the time. you are going over that kind of fast but you're pointing out identity community and purpose. i think that this gets to the heart someone was able to pull you into the movement and how

they were able to reach. >> i think it's important. we here in the world today and assumed they were always like this but nobody is born a hater. they find it almost like a protective armor they put on to protect themselves from the pain they feel. they project that pain outward onto other people. but every single one of us is searching for identity community and purpose at some point in our lives. we have to find that. it develops or values. it's the community that we are a part of, the family. so, people who gravitate towards extremism i talk about this in my book because they are searching for identity community purpose, not hate. the ideology is a final component but they find that locks into place and allows them to then blame their pain on somebody else. but of course we are all not

extremists. maybe we kind of are. maybe that's a joke, maybe not. [laughter] i think the differentiator is it is for the community purpose but also a broken search with what i call potholes. it can be a million different things com from it can be of us, poverty, the loss of a beloved one, divorce, for me it was abandonment but it could also be joblessness, poverty. but if it keeps us so isolated from humanity that could also detour us. so these are to the fringes that these narratives live and they are plenty. the extremist narrative or behavior can be anything from being a neo-nazi to fly into

syria to join isys, to begin debate could become a shooter or drug dealer that is the manifestation of an extremist behavior, and i think ultimately this will extremism could be suicide, sort of taking your pain out on somebody else come it's taking it out on your self, so i think that if we start to put out why the motivations of why people engage in these extremist behaviors, we can look at how to fill the potholes so we can bring people back. >> we do share all the stories s that tie back into why. i will start with you and asking you to answer why. any time in the few years that you were a part of cash, chicago area skinheads, did you ever feel horrible, did compassion ever overcome the ideology you

started believing in or the hate that was poisoning your mind and heart attacks >> i don't know that they passed i didn't feel guilty about what i was givin doing but it wasn'te place to show or do that. it wasn't a place to be vulnerable with my peers so i suspect i wasn't the only one who stuffed those type of feelings down and embraced to the hatred even more so because there was a reward and not from our peers. being violent was the price of admission. it's what kept us there, this kind of feeling of respect for each other even though there was no respect. we didn't even have self-respect. i mean, i really think it's a tough thing to think people can leave those movements. i know it's hard to believe maybe if we are nice to the bad people that they might change but i can't argue over 300

people disengage and it really is the compassion they receive when they least expect it from people believed to serve it from that's the most powerful thing i've seen. story number one in the buck which i think speaks to a lot of the questions at least i have as a 38-year-old woman from california that grew up in poverty and those around around me into this program here at the commonwealth club trying to address the political challenges we're facing. we are facing. the book opens up with the book of cassandra, a younger girl from new jersey who gets deep into an internet relationship. i'm going to let you tell the story because there's so much there, and i think that you would understand why it captures

someone at my age maybe not everyone in the room but especially someone like myself. >> cassandra was a 17-year-old girl when her parents contacted me, which is often the case a bystander will contact me for help. she is a twin living in new jersey who struggled with social anxiety the whole time her sister was socially active. there was a dynamic between them that was difficult for cassandra to get beyond that and 2016 she had been recruited by an online boyfriend, a 21-year-old man who said he was from idaho and had blond hair and blue eyes and recruited her for propaganda so she was 17-years-old making holocaust denial videos getting a significant following of the people and was dating this guy

that kept coercing her to do these things and when her parents contacted me after about a month or so in my investigation i discovered her boyfriend wasn't a 21-year-old man from idaho with blond hair and blue eyes but it was two people, one a russian man in st. petersburg who was 31 and another one being a national living in the city of california working together essentially to catfish her pretend to be somebody else. .. >> and this is part of my

investigation before the presidential election to thousands of other internet and social media accounts that were not see pro trump anti- hillary but they were russian control accounts of course nobody knew that. so i turned over 22 gigabytes of information to the fbi the first week of november before the election. i'm not exactly sure what i found but i have these accounts from russia pro not see him pro trump and anti- hillary but they are not americans. i think we have a problem because i was also tracking the accounts and discovered there were changes to black lives matter and then they

became feminist and other became lgbt account and the goal was they were flooding the internet against these others that they were creating to put americans as the debate. >> you stumbled across the biggest story of the country. >> because then the fbi and cia came out to say we discovered russia and meddling and collusion on social media through facebook. >> and then they never contacted me back after i turned over that information. >> and with the hillary clinton campaign. they asked for more information and i gave it to

them. >> at least they sent you a request for funds. >> i wish i could tell you that was the truth but instead around that time the nonprofit i had cofounded under the obama administration want to grant $400,000 to combat privacy online a patiently waited for the money and then the administration changed and then the grant had rescinded we were the only group focused on white supremacy everybody else was focused on radical islam we were the only group that was rescinded without reason. >> what is the reason that they give you for this grant you thought you would get? was at a tweet? [laughter]

>> that is something else. i got an e-mail from the administrator that i did not know and said i'm sorry we we reviewed all the grant winners and your organization does not qualify. right around the same time i had tweeted something which was not right and shared my feelings and the day the muslim than and that i said f you or something. [laughter] and the head of the nfc at the time denied the grant first and then said let's go find information on this group before we justify to take this away and then they found that after-the-fact. >> there is something important to that for the work you would have done having a

lot to do to focus and to protect young people as part of abuse. the anti-defamation league and the extremist related violence the southern poverty law center with the same percentage of increase in the year 2017 and if so there is something to be said about the murders and violence especially but to point fingers but you talk about your thoughts of the internet impacts of activities in which the premises propaganda. >> i grew up before the

internet to go standing in an alley somebody approaches me of something of that nature. i was a delinquent kid at that time but now we have millions of alienated people who are online their only reality is virtual reality there only connections to other people and chat rooms and these people that are drawn to these narratives. and from these foreign actors with community and purpose online. it doesn't have to jive with the reality. but unfortunately it is spilling out to the real

world. and then attributed to this movement and then there is the whole transnational component that most people are not aware of that this is an american problem and it exist although i have to say never in my lifetime did i ever think what i said 30 years ago would be coming out of a twitter feed or the person in the highest office and to me that is very scary because they do feel that somebody has their back. that grant that we lost was completely focused with online the radicalization we were ready to launch a network because that is where most people are radicalized and it was pulled for weeks before charlottesville. >>.

>> and throughout the book as you keep sharing other stories i was reminded of things in the 1970s there was quite a number of years there are people did not buy the idea of mind control people of the cold. and with the idea to the program and a lot of the same thing to catch a vulnerable person alienated and alone and hurting in some way to divide the community.

and it is a big issue all the things you've been involved in. so are you optimistic we would get over this? >> the tide is rising. we need to be very careful. if we have a problem with white nationalism to say it's a folks and blown out of proportion sometimes multiple requests per day from parents and people involved in these movements. never in a life have i got a request from a ten -year-old ki kid. but i'm getting that now. we have seen a rise in violence and propaganda distribution on college campuses.

and they know which narratives to pitch. and to be very effective while we are still debating if there is a problem. and that has been forged for decades. but then on the three-piece suit. but he actually lived in moscow 1999 through 2003. that he saw blooded his apartment to another supremacist they have been building these alliances for a long time. and that base which they call themselves the base a little translation for al qaeda there is white g hardware they tried to take those tactics of how

they kill they drive their car cars, small groups the propaganda video. >> the narrative in the mainstream media in of which mental illness is cited for the reasons why in the book and with that autistic spectrum disorder and that after serving two tours but it is a little dangerous to fault and point fingers and on the dangers of that. >>.

>> off to the alienation and disconnection from society. the bullying to establish intimate relationships with friends and things like that. and 75 percent of the people are dealing with an emotional disorder everything from depression to bipolar and schizophrenia. and those that don't become extremist but we have to break that equivalent. and those multiplayer online video games. for who knows where in the world taking them from the

call of duty scenario and then the n-word gauging of people respond to that and then sometimes that's from a nervous five -year-old. and those that respond positively to a smaller group and then it ramps up from there. what we need to understand the bridges and roads are fine but we have our people in the best things we can do is offer early adolescent mental health care. to make sure people are set up with opportunities. and as adults we have to learn to be vulnerable with our children.

that they have to impress and then they will never learn to be vulnerable. and then we need to build up. >> we see these stories of the technological anger. and how people are increasingly communicating mostly through social media. and to spend more time because the human infrastructure is not there. the individual work you are doing so what about these millions of kids?

>> we can do it absolutely. im a guide with that identity and purpose in guiding people and for the ways to fix this we can all do that. so why list the seven steps that it takes to disengage. i don't even tell people what's wrong or listen for the potholes. and then if i just have to infer that to figure out the motivations. and trying to repair that to offer that positive sense of

identity. >> so talking about the evolution how that has changed over since you have left it. and where it is at today. and i would love to hear your thoughts and with those buzzwords like patriotic. to exercise freedom of speech we don't hate anyone now we are pro- white. [laughter] >> were you reading my mind 15 years old?

don't like to use the term outright or white nationalism because those are there marketing terms actually said what can we call ourselves? it is true. back in the eighties and nineties we wanted to scorch the earth. but we call that white pride because we knew we had to do that for those who were too extreme to alienate the average american racist. because they were patriotic in some cases. we were waving swastika flags. and that is the long wolf concept. don't get tattoos don't shave your head. don't use the same words like the evil jews instead of the

global elites because it was a way for us to communicate. and then the average american picked up on it but the whole idea we don't want to alienate the recruiting pool so david duke getting rid of the clan robe and elected to the house of representatives that really was the beginning of this normalization which people recognized as extreme to make people afraid. >> so the person that came up with the modern look of the polo and the khaki. >> vladimir putin. [laughter] i am not joking. looking back 2012 we see the exact same tiki torches in

ukraine during the revolution. we see the exact same imagery and other parts of eastern europe. this was a transplanted plan in fact many of the people who were instrumental had actually trained in paramilitary camps in ukraine which started off as the neo-nazi militia that was folded into the national guard of ukraine a very important part of the fight of crimea and that is such an important part of the world because if anybody has seen the movie 300 those spartan held off because ukraine is like that for europe. russia really wants to destroy democracy. so that is the entrée in.

it's interesting because these neo-nazis are fighting for the ukraine freedom but they are promoted by russian propaganda. >> in the book you start off with a brief history of racism in america going from institutional slavery to be re-created and jim crow that could be attacked legally but the people who are supporting and enforcing and mobilizing had control over someone else. >> talk about the younger generation it sounds the violence itself is just the goal. what do they want?

>> chaos is the goal. excrete - - extremism flourishes in times of uncertainty right now america is a tinderbox the world is a tinderbox of uncertainty where the fires of extremism are prime with millions of 11 - - young people about their future and politics and jobs the middle class is disappearing and that's a big deal a lot of people feel lost but they interpret the depression somebody else is rising and women are filing one - - finally being heard lgbtq but the people who held up power if they are just equalizing so then you hear about the jews will not replace us it is the whole idea thinking they are losing power. we live in a time if we are

not very careful right now about young people in ourselves and in general how we react to losing truth if we lose it then we will have a hard time to recognize again to get it back. we are at a moment that is very dangerous for the whole world to face this dire uncertainty. >> let's go back to sanders story, if anything go out there and grab a book and skim through so how hard it was are challenging it was for you to take the situation and be supportive of cassandra's parents that you really felt there was nothing they could do they really wanted to help their child. but you went as far to track this guy down and you are

here. you found his house and go through all the detective work. we don't all have that kind of time and talent that you have to address these situations if any children are involved in any type of scandal which i don't think a slowing down. we are in another election year and afraid the practices online the meddling the other person on the other side with a different motive to divide us is here and is happening right now. >> cassandra was objected and i was the only one who knew where he lived sending

information to the fbi before she was objected and warned eventually he did abductor but she turned 18 and went off to college and i had to find her. of course with the help of local police in her family. but i could not even describe it to local police they would not believe me in a million years had i told them. i am not a detective i have to teach myself how to find information as parents be involved in no how to look for things and for signs what should we look for my kid is becoming an extremist the same if they are getting into drugs are they changing their habits have they abandoned the things that they love?

all the things we have been taught to look for kids of and getting in trouble over decades it's the same thing. the ideology is the final component. we don't battle that through the ideological process but the public health approach to build resilience to prevent this from happening we have to do this proactively to make sure the young people are resilient but we are suffering also. so thinking of something very interesting yesterday, talking about their parents and aging gracefully but they have lost their sense of identity and community and purpose. the friends have died moving into our new neighborhood that

they are not doing it. is the same thing a young person goes through. maybe if we want to age gracefully need to make sure we have positive identities. >> and 2016 your so desperate to get law enforcement to help. they did kind of even with the standoff you are at his house and trying to ask him to get out of the car by this point cassandra is at the airport with her mom. you are there to retrieve their things and telling them he is a criminal. there wasn't much they could do if he wasn't willing to get out of the car but there's only so much what law enforcement was willing to do you went to the fbi they have not responded to you, to this day. that is 2016 hours 2020 with another election year because if you were to submit another case similar to cassandra

today, do you think the fbi or law enforcement or any political candidate word listen to you? >> i had the privilege to testify to the house of representatives and talk about this very specific problem we are having. i have developed a better relationship with the fbi although there are still not willing to look at that case but people see me as a conduit that i found this person on mind they are saying awful things they have threatened violence they will send it to me and i will contact the fbi as my duty and they have responded. i think i'm okay to say that with these potential mass

shootings those have been forwarded. >> so for anyone listening or watching interested in contacting you. >> i'm easy to find just google ask skinhead i usually come up to the top it's very easy to contact me i am on social media google my name. >> we will open to the audience for questions. be prepared with your questions we will walk around with the microphone this is being recorded so speak into the microphone. there was an incident with dylan bruce who walked into the african-american church and killed nine individuals.

that still very hard incident to talk about what is heartbreaking to add to that the music that influenced is music you created over 25 years ago. i have a lot of empathy for you and at the same time from what led us here today is why? why are we doing this why are people so angry and so hateful? the question is how do you reconcile that and continue moving forward? >> that was not only devastating to the community

and victims and families but a moment i will never forget. that was the tied shifting of our understanding. maybe last year when i first found out but i was doing an interview with a journalist and she showed me a printout of a listing that dylan had made on a white supremacist board and in that posting he just watched the documentary about skinheads and heard some music and saw a band perform and posted the lyrics to the website. i don't think she knew what she was showing me at the time. but i had to read it three times because it was very familiar the third time i realized they were my lyrics i had written 30 years before. i had influenced him just the few months before he murdered

nine people and to think i said something 30 years ago to implement somebody made me physically ill. it was several days before i didn't this is music i cannot scrub from the internet for whatever reason and i have responsibility for that for those ideas i put out into the world. and how that can influence people and that is part of what drives me to continue to do this work over 24 years but every day i'm driven by the fact i must repair the damage i have caused. i don't know that means but i'm driven by that idea sometimes i reform people are going into communities that i hurt for making amends with actual individuals.

something i don't think i will ever be done doing or do i want to trust me i want to be having people out of work but personally my mission is to always repair the harm that i have caused. >> does religion play a role in your life? >> and went to catholic schools my whole life to out of six high schools i got kicked out of them once another twice so i grew up in very roman catholic italian family. now i consider myself the agnostic. i think we are all like souls and god's body and when we are sick and cannot communicate , the whole body is sick. we need to learn to understand we are a part of that same

body. we need to be better towards each other. whether god or society we must do a better job at that. that is we take - - my take. >> your turn. >> speak into the microphone we will have a lot of questions. >> maybe not the most profound but ever since i first came across you i bought your book but i have to say as the italian-american that would be white enough to be recruited by white supremacist. we are why dish one - - white -ish. [laughter] but i will never imagine so

who also does? >> speaking from their perspective to believe in the european heritage. so what is white? and with that power structure and white supremacy is the false notion that white people are superior. we can tell you from experience they are not superior than anybody. [laughter] not to say they are not smart but to be honest somebody like richard spencer speak to has those prestigious degrees sounds dumber than i did at 14. [laughter]

we shouldn't think that they are stupid. so what is white? they need to examine themselves because maybe at one point they were not a part of the power structure. >> [inaudible] >> they want to keep that power but frequently it so important about people harmed along the way.

to fix the nation's potholes to help us develop the future. societies and nations can also have potholes and struggle for identity and community and purpose we have potholes we have never focused on. >> you talk about the stabilizing america and the groups that fight against each other. i can see how that breeds chaos but what is to be accomplished by playing video games with jimmy who cannot vote and doesn't have access to a gun? playing a really long game? >> guns are pretty easy to get even for a 15 -year-old.

they understand that. what they want to do is create more of that uncertainty because extremism flourishes the small percentage that walk into their school and murder people the goal is to distract so talk about influence they are changing votes but influencing us so sometimes about giving opinions. is this reality but in most cases they know america's open wounds. the fact we have a lot of guns and people die all the time. so we talk about the terrorist group in the truest sense of the word i hope them to

disengage and piece by piece i have been to the ukraine and trained in paramilitary camp i did not find out igor until he told me his name was john smith. so really it is just about creating so much disruption in our country we cannot even decide what to do amongst ourselves. we can get anything done because of this. >> i am a retired police officer. have you had any success of reaching out to the law enforcement community but agitating the song officers?

have you thought about that quick. >> absolutely i have a wonderful relationship with law enforcement. i do try to educate them. they don't understand what is happening overseas so it is very very important law enforcement, teachers, psycholot , anybody dealing with young people really needs to understand what is happening. yes, absolutely at one point i even helped the fbi to develop an intervention program they never ended up using to do that touchy-feely intervention work but this is something when exit for white nationalist but all young people to make sure even the

most marginalized communities have access to opportunity and are empowered because it isn't just a solution to defeat extremism for part of crumbling infrastructure. >> thank you for coming tonight. im curious how you excommunicate yourself from the group it seems like the work now is dangerous have you ever had to deal with threats on your life or your family so what was that like and what it's like now it seems kind of scary. >> yes. thank you for the question. i wish i could tell you when i left in 1996 i told them off and waving my fist at them. no. i ran. i ran away.

that happen for almost five years. i didn't have the same beliefs but in finding new friends it was killing me because i had that cancer in me. not until he actually started telling people i noticed my life was getting better i was getting honest and holding myself accountable for the first time. nobody gets a free pass i hold myself accountable for 24 years and i do believe people need to repair the damage that they have caused that only with the victims but communities to self reflect and understand to fix what they did i get threats almost every day.

most or all mine i view hundreds of these events nobody has ever disrupted or attended. here is the thing. other than dad i would be in jail if i stayed. it is my duty of one of the few people most people don't know how they work or recruit or what happens or the strategies and i feel that's my responsibility to dismantle that. >> thank you for what you do. >> obviously the groups that you mentioned before our very obviously neo-nazi movements what about the alt bright

light? >> if we look at white supremacist as the umbrella term there are all different kinds. some will say all to write some will say not that far off and then some groups no holds barred and they are very happy to tell you about that. but here is the common threa thread, they are all white supremacist they can a themselves what they want, dress differently but ultimately their goal is to marginalize and harm other people. so they had been responsible for at least five deaths in the last two years and probably more that have been thwarted so just to say things in some cases all they drive

their car through rallies but the words are harmful the ideas are harmful. and do and up influencing people so all trite or all to extreme they are all still feeding the problem. so i don't differentiate between them. they are all guilty as far as i am concerned what they are doing. i approach them differently somebody wearing a suit like a skinhead. so i recognize the differences but at the same time i hold them fully accountable. >> maybe i don't know enough or haven't read enough but i am wondering, ultimately who

is controlling these different organizations and who is behind all of this? the recipe somebody keeping each of the organizations going. >> it's much less of organizations and individual action. think of movements without leaders were individuals feed off each other and encourage each other with different camps but the internet changed everything. like a 24 hour all-you-can-eat hate buffet if you are hungry people are feeding off of each other for manifestoes to the christchurch and referencing each other it is a game to be come the high score so what they are aiming for is

oklahoma city 168 people were killed including children , timothy mcveigh most people don't know was a white supremacist scene at places like aryan nations like the covenant of the sword and the arm of the lord. and they really aspire to create more damage so there is all whole idea of acceleration with the movement. they for have forgotten of the idea. what they are now trying to do is accelerate through violence were there is mass chaos with a whole world of scorched because they believe they will survive. it's not about leaders there

are leaders and figureheads but it's not about the group structure so much was a pretty small group will wolf terrace. but it's not about reporting to the hierarchy because law enforcement did a wonderful job to infiltrate these groups and started to take down the leadership they said no more groups we will be a lone wolf we will indoctrinate you and each other but you will not be a card-carrying member or a director to oversee you. it is your responsibility in your job to recruit people and send them off.

>> they are influencers for foreign adversaries are seeding these ideas the original website this is very dangerous where they started to recruit americans was a man based right now in moscow he was recruiting people and encouraging violence and race for this is that ideologues are talking about but also fanning the flames. so everybody is their own leader essentially. >> speaking of people that talk on - - belong to marginalized groups, i'm interested in your thoughts on

stephen miller. this is a person in the official position who has control of funds and policy. he is a jewish man. i just find him baffling and scary. where are his potholes? >> i don't know his specific potholes but i can tell you that if we can stability for a moment ideologically think of it as identity and purpose i can tell you that i have worked with black neo-nazis and latino neo-nazis. i have worked with jewish mothers who their sons deny

the holocaust. they have been accepted and that was the lottery ticket. people paid attention and they were getting a reward for their history and what they have gone through because it's greater than the pain so my opinion on stephen miller he is doing bad stuff and he has the power to do those bad things but there are other people that have been fired from the state department for discovering that they had a podcast not trying to paint an epidemic that they are doctors and lawyers and teachers of military and police officers.

just because the job is respectable does not mean they are respectable people doing them. in fact, in the eighties we encourage people to disassociate from groups that were visible. we said go get some training. and that is what has happened. >> what is the best public response to charlottesville or berkeley or white supremacist activities? ignore them? and. [roll call] what is the most effective response? the two things that extremist love our silence and violence

if we ignore them they will keep doing it. the living in a post- racial society everybody who thinks that has never spoken to a person of color and they love violence why they go to progressive neighborhoods like charlottesville and jewish neighborhoods to march through there. it is to elicit a response that will allow them to attack because they want to paint themselves as the victim why they hide behind free speech and patriotism because those are hard to attack. how do you knock patriotism?

they are the least patriotic they want to destroy american their anti- law enforcement. so to waive the american flag that isn't what they are doing because then they can identify people who are not white nationalist but supporting what they are doing. so they want to be the victims and they like to antagonize. sometimes we fall into that tra trap. we need to be vocal, physical and vigilant. the best example of what i saw have been after charlottesville is what happened in boston ten or

20000 came out i guarantee they will not go back to boston but they will go back to berkeley and other places because they got the response. >> and you share with us insight your experience what was going on in your head and in your heart? it's hard to comprehend the people feel this way but big component of making a shift in the change is understanding. you mentioned those components but you personally at the time did it feel true to you because morally you thought it wasn't right or looking back

did you feel brainwashed because we cannot comprehend what you have experienced. >> at first it was confusing but i knew the price of admission was to beat the violence and buy-in. the more i did that the boy started to believe it and i was committed and stopped having doubts. but it would lesson the more i got respect and power and girls started to like me to grow my influence to national and then international so that the guilt was still there it effectively left because i was getting something i had forgotten to be human after a

while. it was a curve like that i was getting the reward but after a while like a drug, it makes you feel good and comforts you may she forget about your problems is killing you and everyone around you but it was like that and after a while i started to feel guilty but i knew it was much harder for me at that point to disengage then repair the damage was very difficult to leave. the last two years i was involved not even believing in ideology but going with the program because i wasn't brave enough to tell people off and start over. it was dangerous so at first i did not believe that i did not understand it but then when i

started to recognize it wasn't good for anybody there was decreasingly hard to leave also because the outside world did not want me back and i knew that even though i was changing at that point rightfully so i had to gain people's trust and it took years to do that. it isn't always a situation that's easy but all of a sudden receiving respect for the first time in their lives sometimes for the first time it's very addictive. >> christian is available after the program please make sure you get a copy. thank you for being here and

of course for christian all the work you do and continue to do. [applause] >> it would be profoundly wrong to contend is some do the united states was founded on slavery. no, it was on other principles entirely of liberty in self-rule discovered and defined and enshrined through

the centuries of european and british and american history those foundational principles will win out in the end but not without much struggle and eventual bloodshed. the united states enjoys the birth were not the product of the untroubled delivery. so i wrote these words before the publication of the 1619 project which i suspect you are all familiar with which does insist on the idea america was founded on slavery and we are told to produce and distribute materials in american schools to promote that idea. absent the countervailing argument that part of the

education of american students to see slavery as part of the enduring makeup of the dna which is the metaphor that they use the lesson not only false but pernicious. . . . . to speak with you today about