as the coronavirus continues to spread we wanted to share a program from the book tv archives. science reporter gina kolata provides a history of the flu pandemic that killed 40 million people worldwide. book notes from 2000. >> the story of the great influence of pandemic. in the search for the virus. i never really thought much about it. people would just get sick and then they would get better

again. i was never interested in it at all. a few years ago i'm a reporter for the new york times i wrote an article for the times about really miraculous discovery. he was reporting in a technical journal. he managed to get the lung tissue. in that lung tissue there was still in fragments of the virus that had killed him. when i interviewed this man he told me about the influenza pandemic of 1918. and i was stunned. i've just never heard of anything like this. it was the worst infectious disease epidemic. it killed 70 people. if something like that came by today. it would kill more people than the top ten killers. i just found out by looking at the papers. 99 percent of the e-mail that died in this pandemic were

under the age of 65. it was an astonishing devastating epidemic and what made the story for me was this idea all of these years later. they have actually have some lung tissue. what was this virus. how could it become such a killer. and could it happen again. if so would you recognize it in time. there is one reference in the book. they keep matching the number upward. 40million is an s -- an underestimate. there was a meeting of historians who were influenced in this. they are saying that the true

number was closer to a hundred million. >> what is influenza. it is a simple little virus it just has eight genes and only lives in human lungs. and while it is their it's only job is to take a long self and make it into a virus factory. the virus gets it and takes the cell's machinery and forces it to to just make new viruses. it's a simple little thing. what happened to the body. the full hallmarks of influenza. one of them is you get a fever and take to your bed. you have muscle aches and pains. you have a cough. you don't always sneeze but you always have a cough. >> i said this is the flu.

the muscle aches were the worst in high fever. where did it start. >> this is a really good question. the first time it came into the united states in a big way. it showed up with camp devens. at the time this might be germ warfare because they couldn't believe it was something like the flu. many people in insisted on putting that flew forward. and there were rumors that this has been a greasy crowd. or that they had put something into bayer aspirin a bayer aspirin that would kill people. it was the most horrible thing that anybody had ever witnessed. they have so many young soldiers that were dying. the bodies were stacked up there. it was so shocking that that surgeon general the leading

doctors in the united states. one of them later wrote the memoir. i cannot even bear to think about this thing. it demonstrated that superiority. in the taking of human life. these are memories burned on his brain and that he would like to remove if he possibly could. and when they described what happened. when the doctors wanted to see it ought autopsy. they have to step over the bodies to just get into the autopsy room. and then when they watch an autopsy take place the military dr. opened the chest of a young man who have died and there were her lungs. totally useless. the man died because his lungs were filled with fluid. a dr. had been imperturbable

turned and said this must be a plague. he cannot believe it. in your book you have. >> the bottom picture this is a from of the samples of lung tissue. what was really miraculous was there was a military warehouse. people describe it is like the library of the congress of the dead. every time a military dr. does an autopsy. some of the tissue and medical records. there were people that died 1918. at the time they took little snippets of the lung tissue. and sent them to the warehouse. finally at the end of the century but in some

acquisitions. and ask some people if they could find some lung tissue. in that picture you just saw was of the little pieces of lung tissue in it. after all these years there is still that flu virus. let's go back to the pathology institute at walter reed. have you been there? the 3 million samples they are in boxes. and drawers and things. it is the big metal warehouse. and everything with cement floors. maybe it's more cheap to make that way. there is a man there named al reddick. in his job i would like to get some lung samples. people who died of influenza in 1918 and who died very

quickly. they did not want the person who have gotten the flu virus and then linger. and then the virus that left in their lungs died. since 1917 has been computerized. he could get a computer printout. he goes over with his letter and his books. and in them were samples. there was brain tissue. all sorts of stuff in that warehouse. you said that abraham lincoln started it. from then on. it can be steadily accumulating. it was a brilliant idea. when they started this who would ever know what you would use it for. and then in 1918 no one ever found the influenza virus. the idea that somebody someday could make use of this material was just brilliant. i know i'm jumping way ahead. do they now what caused the

influenza of 1918. >> there are only eight genes in the flu virus. they have three lung samples from people that died who have those genes in them. getting them out as pushing the is pushing the limits of molecular biology. a very detailed mosaic. they have gotten three of the teams completely put together now. they are choosing them in the order of the likelihood that they would get the easy access. the first three genes had killed the flu virus. they've not provided the answer yet to buy it was dangerous. there is only one person that works there. i'm sure there's others. did you get any sense that there was a lot of traffic.

i was the only person there. it was pretty big. it was a huge warehouse thing. just over the border. one of the things i must admit. i did not expect to get out of this book there are some is some personal stories in here. were you surprised about the competition going on. by the time i started to write the book i knew that there was a story. i read fiction for fun. i would not write a book unless i thought there was a story. for me it's not something i would pick up because i would want to read it. there was a drama there. there was competition.

what book is this for you? what book is this for you? against commercial it is the fourth. and how long had you worked for the new york times? new york times. how did you get this. it's so silly. i wanted to be a writer. i really did. i was in a get a phd. i decided to get a masters instead. i was married then and i cannot move around so easily. science gave me a job that was not as a writer. i said i will take this job but you have to understand i'm doing it to war my way into the writing department.

after i took it i said i would like to write an article for you on my own time for free. take it or leave it. do you mind if i do it. i'm originally from baltimore. and i went to the university of maryland. before i decided that that was not the way either. i tried science. science magazine is bought by what kind of person. >> it's mostly subscription magazine. they have a new section that is written for anybody to read. it can gets technical. you write something so a physicist doesn't have to know any of the stuff that led up to this discovery. it's like writing a normal news story. >> it is owned by the american association for science.

another magazine is nature. very similar. has a new section. written by science. has mostly scientific articles. what was this a more devastating flu than the average one we care when we care about all the time. when you think about this. 1.5million americans can die like this. in a typical flu season 20,000 people die. here 99 percent of them were under age 65. a very peculiar dust curb. -- death curve. in the end some old people died. see mike i would like to ask

you to read it. the authors brother i guess died of this. and then where did he write this. he was writing look homeward angel. they said the subscription of his brother's death was actually his brother's real name and a description that was not fictionalized. would you mind reading this and tell his wife at us why put this in the book. when i talk about the flu or people who are living today talk about the flu. it's almost impossible for us to imagine what it was like. i tried as much as i could to put the words of the people that have been there. it has an emotion that we can't capture. the reason i put the

description in. with all of them that i have read about them dying of the flu this one really touched me. it almost brought me to tears. you can imagine yourself in that room. watching someone die like this. it was one of those moments i cannot forget this passage. and that's why put it in. >> they came home to a deathwatch. his family waited for what they feared was inevitable. to that gray shaded light of the room. they saw a syrian recognition. the beloved 26-year-old was dying. the long thin body made it covered by the bedding. they assumed not to belong to

him. it was distorted and detached. his face have turned gray. by to read science. the beard was somehow horrible. and then the lips were lifted. above his white dad looking teeth. in the sound of this gasping it was unbelievable. and orchestrating every moment final note of horror. the next day he grew delirious. by 4:00 it was apparent that death was near. most the time he was delirious.

his breathing was easier. some old and forgotten. with the secret antics of his childhood. two possible song of wartime. but now tragically moving. the baby's prayer at twilight. his eyes were almost closed. the great flickr was dulled. he lay quietly upon his back very straight without pain and with a curious upturn in his face. his mouth was firmly shut. he was praying even though he did not believe in god or prayer. whoever you are be good to bed tonight. whoever you are be good to bed tonight. amidst the hours.

with the wild and synchronic prayer. ben quieted and laid still. and then in the last breath. in a long and powerful respiration. filled with the terrible vision of all life in the one moment he seemed to rise forward without support aflame a light and glory. and then past and afraid as he have lived into the shades of death. >> does it say in the book what his brother did? i think another statistic. twenty-five or 28 percent of the people got flu. it's only a very small percentage of the people actually get the flu. this was a infectious flu.

people could not even understand how it was doing so fast. it was 25 times more deadly than the normal flu. that's why they have such an amazing death rate. with his dr. giving him a shot. what is a story about this. they were really afraid that the flu was coming back again. they thought it was related to a flu that also infected pigs at that time. around the same time people were dying with that flu. pigs in huge numbers got that. it's not clear how they gave it to each other. but they became convinced that the flu was related to the swine flu. a young 18-year-old went out on a march with his unit. he was feeling sick with the

flu. it was nighttime 5 miles hike. he have swine flu. they finally discovered. this was really strange. it's the very end of the flu season. it takes six months to make that vaccine. so president ford ask the doctors in the country. what should we do. let's wait until next season. let's see if there's a problem or do you say this one death is scary enough. and make a swine flu vaccine and give it to the entire nation. the decision was understandable. they can't take a chance. people are getting be dying rapidly. we will have no one protecting them. there was a decision to make. it turned out in president

ford in order to try to encourage people to get the vaccine was photographed getting his own flu shot. it didn't turn out that that was that important. it turned out there was no swine flu epidemic. it's unclear how he got it. they indicated that they may have gotten one. nobody was getting sick from this flu. they have a vaccine. it was not causing any sort of problems and around the same time everyone started getting immunized. people started saying the vaccine is actually killing people.

i think that has haunted people to this day. you still hear people say flu vaccines they never get the right flu strain. in the vaccine can make you sick. and a lot of that got started after 1976. were in the flu season as we record this. how do they know who determines what shot you get a couple months ago. there was a group of experts. that goes on all the time. and what they look at as they say what is the flu strain that is becoming the predominant one at the end of the previous year. what happens is the flu every year it comes to a population and it burns itself out. and then it mutates.

it straightens up itself a little bit. if people are vulnerable to a it will infect them. right above hong kong in southern china do all flu flues emanate from there. every major pandemic has begun in southern china. and there is a reason why they think this is the hot spot for flu. in order to really sweep the world he have to get a flu that is so different from anything that you've seen. and then it has not been seen by human beings before. bird flu's are really different than the ones that affect people.

they can come out with a new flu. and human characteristics. how come pigs and not cows. i can't answer that. i can't tell you that it's only pics. i wish i could. if it is a heavy pig thing, do you kill the virus when you cook the pig? anyway instead. in southern china what they do the grow the race. and the only eat the weeds and not the rice. the pigs cannot get the duck

flu viruses and the people that live very close there. they can get the virus from the pigs. you can end up with a new flu is starting there. this is kind of interesting for 1918. there is at least one researcher. they have this idea that the 1918 flu actually started earlier in southern china. they have historical records. they were getting sick with something. and the chinese laborers were sent to europe. every other major pandemic. hong kong had a big scare in 1987. do we know about that here. i thought scientists were overreacting.

at the time what have happened. there was a flu in hong kong. they were getting really sick and dying. there was a big investigation and what can the flu did he have. bird flues don't normally infect people. immediately the alarm bells go off. scientists always had 1918 on their mind. nobody else except for this seem to be getting the flu. no one knows exactly how we got the bird flu. we don't know what it was but luckily it's going nowhere.

young people dying of the flu. it turned out to be a bird flu. and that was very terrified because terrifying because it looked like something was happening in hong kong. along with the very able investigators. with extensive investigation. it was going from chickens to people. it was even killing chickens and they don't normally die of flu. the big fear was if they don't do anything it would in fact the person and in their lungs the two flues would emerge. would have 1918 all over

again. and in order to protect the world. the hong kong government ordered the every chicken in hong kong be killed. people like to buy these chickens at markets. all of these chickens are in cages. i think now it was at the time. now i think it was a good idea. see mac how do we get the flu? >> the very first time that summer gets a flu do they eat it and has to get into your lungs. it also lives longer in the air when it was dry.

other than the flu shot to protect yourself is there a way to protect yourself. not much you can do. you can stay away from people. wash your hands a lot. do you think flu shots are good idea. i said why was i so stupid. i've two children. their 18 and 21. i went to get a flu shot today. i want you to call and say that you got it. we got the flu shots tonight. he was a mathematician. he works for a nonprofit society in philadelphia. back to this. what year was it to write this book.

>> when you first call did you call your agent? it's what they typically do. it may be really interesting. i didn't know the history then. i'd seen enough pieces of it. it would have a beginning a and middle and i was hoping an end. when did you really know is that that you have something unique? >> when i get a contract. what i mean by that. they found the virus in alaska. that's when i realized it was truly a story here.

when they first went to alaska. there is two pictures. that was in alaska. and what is he digging up there. a mass grave. almost every one in the tunnel --dash like tiny village. they had been very -- buried all in one spot. we've all of the kids there. in 1918. and who was that. he was a path i'll adjust. he came to this country as a medical student.

he came here and he was very adventurous. what he would do. they started driving around. they spent the summer with the perry intelligence. there is a terrible tragedy. and the only way we are ever going to know what happened is if someone could just find someone that was buried there. in the lungs are still frozen. i know how to do this. i know this. colleges. i can find out where the eskimo villages were. i can find out where were their grades. i could go up there and

actually find a flu victim. he did do this. it was an amazing adventure. three possible villages. the third village and the mass grave. there was a terrible tragedy in 1918. i would like your permission to dig in this grave and try to find that. they were told that it's okay to do it. he did it to get some lung tissue in 1918. they're trying to grow the 1918.

they did not about the consequences. he was growing at there. that's how they grow flu viruses. they are hoping to grow the virus. nothing happened so he concluded it was dead. he never forgot the grave in the 1918 flu. one day he would go back there with science advanced enough. and he would try again to solve the mystery. >> it was the 1918 flu itself. and then you have a 1951 trip by the scientists from 51 to present where is he located with this. he was doing lots of other things. so being an adventure but always thinking about the flu and always reading everything he could about influence and wreck -- molecular biology.

when with the time be right. to try to do something to fight -- find out about this virus. they're out there at the pathology institute. is he a military man he is a civilian. and what's his background. he got medical dr.. he just sort of stumbled into this kind of career. he is a brilliant man who always asks the right questions. he got interested in influenza one of the things they do in the pathology lab there. they answer questions for other people in the military. in one of the questions he had been asked why were dolphins dying. one of the veterinarians said he has the dolphins around the world. he said if we can use the

dolphin tissue can you pull out the mesial virus if it's there. >> they actually did pull out the virus. i wonder what else we could do with our expertise. and that's what led him to start looking for the 1918 flu virus in the lung tissue. he is the big pathology institute. they don't even know. the sample from the warehouse. they wrote a letter and said. they tried to carefully decide to explain.

i can probably go out there next week. the reason he did not want to sit at the time. they are building the replica. they're in their 70s. think about half their age. why no picture of christie duncan. i have put the pissed -- put the picture in. in order to use the picture she wanted to have some sort of control over what was said. she was worried about as a

journalist you can't control what a journalist says in the book. i will check back forever. i can tell you that they would write it for me. she has wasted is waste long hair. she's very tiny. with the geographer. she lives in windsor ontario. she recently got married. i think that was before she got married for the second time. very intense looking. she is very passionate it was the same idea. she wanted to find bodies in the permafrost.

she read a book called america america's forgotten pandemic and she was just truly moved to tears she said by the story. and she said here was the geographer. i don't know where she went to school. i know you mentioned in the book the university of windsor. and so she said i think i can find some bodies in the permafrost. they were to scan a go up there by themselves and not tell anybody. he was never to tell a soul because he did not want eskimos to be part of the media circus. they wanted to make this something everybody knew about that they would all understand. the urgency for doing this. she was not want to unleash an

epidemic of the world. she started in the 1990s as well. i cannot remember the exact years. >> the article came out when. >> etiquette was 97. did she know about the science article. she did not know about johan holton. while she was doing her story. there was some kind of committee that they served on with her. because she was trying to get money from the national institute of health. they were saying seven minors at a tiny remote island near the arctic circle. it was a coincidence. she learned that was an area of permafrost.

they have gotten sick with the flu on this. they died practically as soon as they arrived. they were buried and marked graves. she got permission and they were trying to get the minors bodies. she have to raise money. and she was raising money from the government and private industry. >> she put together an international team. and she was looking for money. one of her team members was an american. he was sort of like the lead person wanting to ask for money. >> , 20 did she need. she got several million dollars. she got money from merck, and the british. she got a bunch of money. i doesn't hurt to have some more samples.

they had three samples. in his samples did it count. that's what they needed for the frozen samples. they don't quite understand what they were trying to tell her. she wanted to go ahead anyway. >> i'm not sure the timing on this. johan holton went back to alaska. he did dig into that grave again. he did get a sample. he put in a preservative. he sent it everything was done on a low-tech scale. he decided this was a really precious sample of lung

tissue. that is a picture of him here just a few years ago. he went back there because of the science magazine article. getting another lung sample. he sent it back. one said ups. they all got there. they found the viral genes in there. and started working on them. meanwhile christie duncan with her multi- million-dollar huge expedition went off to the island off the coast of norway with the media in tow and film crew. >> did i win --dash did i read that there was ten camera crews? >> yes. it was a big media

extravaganza. anybody suspicious with all she was doing with that media attention and the money involved? there is a lot of controversy all along. they do get a lot of -- they do get suspicious. they do get suspicious when something seems to be blown up like that. all of the talk about safety, and safety. there was a lot of animosity and people that were angry with her. and christie duncan who is a very passionate and emotional person she dresses is in a way that doesn't look like a scientist. i think also. that also made people think she was not a serious person. i think she was serious about trying to find the virus.

i think she hoped she would be able to find a virus. at the meantime he goes to alaska and finds the body. it sends it back. he already had that sample when he was on the committee with her. the problem was we have another sample. but he have told the eskimos that they were to be the one to determine when he made the announcement. he wasn't as can a spring in the media there. they would decide how to release this information. there'll get the go-ahead to say he went up there. you've gotten a samples. they were in the mass grave. >> he did on his own. very quickly. he just went up there immediately. sleeping on the floor of the one-room schoolhouse. on an air mattress. ready to dig in those graves.

>> go back to norway. there's everything. it was 98. one of my colleagues was there. everybody was. as they are about to try to do that. there was a virus. it was herded off in the distance. they started to dig into the grave site. every day they would issue a press release. and what happened it turned they have done elaborate rater work radar work at this time. when they started to dig they found out the minors were buried. in ground that and ground that

was not frozen. she said. we have succeeded it with a soft tissue. people were there they basically have skeletons and that there was bone tissue and they also took some tissue from brains. there was no lungs there. that's where the virus grows. it's unheard of for the virus to grow in the brain. there is one strange thing about this virus. there are some people who thought maybe the 1918 flu virus had sparked an epidemic of parkinson's disease. there was a parkinson's disease in 1918. with the awakening. they were the people that got it after 1918.

if everybody's getting the flu and getting parkinson's disease. why is there cause and effect. there was one piece of information that was kind of interesting. no ships are going to dock here. they escaped the flu. the people who did not get the flu did not get parkinson's disease. they did have the epidemic. but no one has ever heard of the virus getting into the brain. they need an enzyme. as far as anybody ever known. or ever been able to show. a flu virus does not live outside the lungs. if they did not get lung tissue they should not be able to get a flu virus. >> where their documentaries made? >> yes. and they couldn't show the actual area. i turned out to be because it didn't work so well.

it also included that. they then made it into a document. the very beginning was they started pulling their team together. let's discuss this possibility. when it didn't work so well the documentary became a documentary about the race. with the international team of experts. did you reach any conclusions about the way money was generated for this? it was very interesting to me that the most exciting work on the float was been done to the outsiders. they were doing it in a very quiet low-key way. it was interesting to me that you did not need you did not

need these to get to a grave site. i want to ask you one other little personal thing. what's a story and who is he. he is a british biologist. he began to exchange a lot of facts was disturbing his daughter. the fax to them. and the phone calls to him sounded so personal and emotional. and also according to his adult daughter they were also getting a little bit concerned. the first person she called was john oxford.

they have gotten the grants from the british and paved the way for a lot of her work. he have a falling out with her. and i think he is still a member of the team. whatever their relationship is. and as far as i know. i have no reason to believe anything other than the letters and the faxes into the telephone calls. is not what it used to be. before i ask you about the center for disease control what is your conclusion up to now about what is going on with all of this. was all of this worth it. i think so. every time i think it's a scientist about the flu. are we can assist another flu like this and they say yes. you just don't know when. there is no way of predicting what will happen. or how the flu virus will

mutate. it's important to understand how it can become a killer. maybe it will take a hundred changes to turn the flu virus into something. maybe there is no one shake. what does it do. what can you do to protect yourself. how do you stop this virus. >> what is different in the year 2000 than in the year 1918 at this kind of pandemic were to start. one is vaccine. the big fear that everybody has if they see a virus like this coming and they have a six-month notice that people will think that scientists are just crying wolf. and they will not be ready with the vaccine. they may not.

you have to start someone. if they can get the vaccine going as fast as they can you could protect most of the world from the virus. if they believed the scientists had to have a vaccine. the second big difference is in a biotics. they died because of the flu themselves. the bacteria came into their lungs. and people still die of bacterial infections when they get the flu. we did not had them then. and that well have a huge difference in the death toll. that is a national center where they look at things. how big a place as it.

it is a campus like thing where there is a lot of big buildings. the federal government. i don't think it's enough. i think it should be more. >> she got a call on this whole hong kong thing and 97. when do you start to panic. she started to panic as soon as they heard there was bird flu. she was really scared. she got a call when she was on her vacation in wyoming. and she was tossing and turning. >> she was a make -- awake many nights. see mac you have to get at this thing fast. how is it spreading how easily is it spreading? where is this virus. is only in hong kong. what should you do.

should you ask for another 1976 thing happen. speemac they are the ones that look at aids and ebola and everything you look about and think about. what happened to the body. people moved very quickly almost overnight because there lungs would fill with fluid. he would have a young person that started to fill sick. -- feel as sick. their blood was not getting enough oxygen. those are starting to spread. some people are dying. but no one is getting the flu. >> are you surprised with what you got this book based on

what you started with. part of the reason i really enjoyed working on this book. i just kept getting better and better. people were amazing. someone i referenced in this book a lot. he was there in 1976. i was calling and e-mailing him constantly. he was taking them down from his attic. he said i'm just getting keep all my files in my living room until you finish that. people were willing to go through their older records. how they had felt. looking for old newspaper articles. and old photographs and documents. he would do anything he could to reconstruct the story and go beyond the memory of what have happened.

>> there is a lot more in this. it is a book called flu. the story of the great influence pandemic of 1918. and the searcher for the virus. thank you very much. [music] [music] this is just

one of many programs book tv has covered on pandemics. to review the full list into type pandemic and book into the search bar at the top of the page. as the coronavirus continues to impact the country here is a look at what the publishing industry is doing to address the ongoing pandemic. the los angeles times has decided to hold their festival in october. the book expo has also decided to push back their scheduled dates to july. bookstores around the country are looking to provide remote services for their country -- company. many like politics and prose are offering virtual online

events. the country's book publishers are still fulfilling their schedule of book tv continue to bring new programs publishing news. you also all of our archive programs anytime .. .. >> .. .. the dragons and the snakes, how the rest learn to fight the west. today's event is hosted by the center of political and military power which promote understanding of defense strategies, policies and capabilities necessary to defeat threats to the freedom, security and prosperity of americans and our allies.