but to become a television for serious readers. this made good >> good evening ladies and gentlemen. we are pleased to have with us this evening doctor jennifer hirsch professor of medical science at columbia university who will be reading from and discussing her new book teethree a landmark study of sexual assault on campus it is based on a program called sexual health initiative to foster transformation. the most comprehensive study on a campus to date.

after the talk we'll have time for questions and answers and c-span is here with us tonight recording the event and i would ask that if you have a question please hold your hand up and wait until i bring you the microphone so we can hear what your question is. i present doctor jennifer hirsch. [applause] >> thank you so much it's great to be here and thank you for coming out. in every room there are always survivors. if you feel distressed by what am sharing it's okay to take a break. the national sexual assault hotline 186-56-4673. i will start with the story. the story of hot summer night and sex with his girlfriend the sexiest story in the book.

i won't start with that but he is a good guy who had developed a series of nicknames for the orgasms his girlfriend had he was very committed it was pleasurable for her to. but he also sexually assaulted someone. he tells a story one night freshman year he was in a room with his roommates girlfriend roommates. the roommate has a girlfriend they are shuffled into the same bedroom the girl was drunk and said she wasn't interested but he felt like he was behind his peers and are ready had more sexual experience. so he got in her bed and he started to touch her body. then he thought to himself this isn't a thing so he stopped. where and austin tells the story he became distraught

because in the telling of that story he realized what he had done was sexual assault and it was hard for him to put togethers what he had done what he knew was wrong but he thought he was a goodfa person and if you sexually assault people you are a bad person and that is one of the questions we are speaking to in the o book that people can do things that are harmful to other people without necessarily being badei people. and that has surrounded around campus sexual assault to bring a very different optic to the problem. the book is not about fear or punishment that prevention. so much of the conversation about campus sexual assault focuses either on adjudication.

or that the perpetrators if we could onlyy identify those sociopathic men then we could catch them and campuses would be safer spaces. but think about driving it all the effort goes into teaching young people how to drive a that's a pretty dangerous thing to move a 2-ton vehicle there's car engineering and row design in many systems in place at multiple levels so they can do that safely. what we call for in the book is a parallel system for sex to teach young people how to have sex without hurting other people. and so they pulled back the curtain and what it feels like to be a college student today that is the life of college students so we did in-depth

interviews with 151 student students, all of them at least once for some of them up to three times because they had experienced so many a couldn't fit into one or two interviews. we had a team of researchers we are too old to hang with students and thought that would be creepy for them so we hired a team of younger researchers who are staff and they socialize with students as they went about their daily lives it would go to the athletic field and dining hall and dorms and in religious patient on - - spaces so there are some of the research team not spine but doing research and they were identified as researchers. we interviewed the students we

did observation and then talk to them in groups, talk about sex and consent and this is all in the context of a much larger project which was funded by columbia university it was the giant shift project that has two surveys and the community engagement portion to spend time with and talking with students as they go about their daily life. i will tell you about glenn. a tall conventionally very attractive white woman. when she came to new york she settled into new york city club life which she really enjoyed and toldk us she came in with a list of stories she wanted to tell us.

they didn't feel that life is good stories but she would meet the list actors not very famous and was veryamou clear se said on her sexual boundaries and go back to the hotel room and did not want to have sex she would describe it as she would just give them a blow job to get out of there. so for her that was a self protective escape so what is that feeling of indebtedness that she felt that she owed him a blow job? so she shares to stories.ri first was when her roommates were encouraging her just to try that she wasn't psyched but there was a freshman who was kind of into her so she said at least he's a senior if i have to go with a college guy that is impressive. in her mind she had an idea of

how it would go like a slow production on the first date maybe we go to second base then i will let him finger me we will not have sex until the third date but that is not twhat he was thinking. he was pretty emphatic that he wanted to have sex back in her room she convinced him know they were not but he could sleep over and that would be nice to cuddle and then she woke up in the night and he was pumping her le leg. she said that's gross what are you doing and then the next day she was discussing it with her mom and her mom said he sexually assaulted you and she rejected that. she said no it is not her roommate said that a sexual assault so then she tells us the next time she was sexually

assaulted that the end of one of her earlier years in school not entirely moved out but one of the last in the dorms so to describe is the scummy promoter guy from l.a. and they were going to go get stone together so they go to the park and then go back to the dorm and he wants to make out she's not that into him so he tried to force the issue and he was grabbing at her and she was trying to convince him he had to leave he said i will tell the guard that we smoked pot she said i will tell the guard you are trying to rape me. so she managed to get him away but she was shaken by the

experience so again she called her mom to talk about it. and talking with her mom she realized maybe it wasn't so bad because really nothing happened he just said some bad things to me and he did but nothing happened andin i'm okay seven that second experience she started to realize she didn't owe anyone anything. i came all the way uptown and she said yes. you came all the way of town and you will not even have an orgasm. thinking that she owed them to get out of there to have a clear sense of her own right to not have sex that she did not want to have a then the idea in the book of sexual citizenship that people have the right to have a sexual experience and also not to and other people have those same

rights heterosexual men were socialized to be very attentive to their own right ofof pleasure and not so attentive to other people's rights and women were socialized to care about what they owed other people and to be less r certain of their own right to sexual determination including the right to say no. the point isn't to say it is her fault she should have a better idea of her own sexual citizenship but what kind of world are we building were a beautiful confident effective young woman feel so indebted to others for pleasure and what kind of world are we building if they hump somebody's leg in the middle of the l night that they're not interested in having sex not

what is wrong with that person but who raise that person not to know better so instead of thinking campus sexual assault as a fault of campuses to say it's all of our responsibility that includes families and faith communities going back to thels metaphor to make sure people drive safely is not only the responsibility of oneen person if parents talk with their kids about driving they don't sit them down and explain how spark plugs work that is not how you teach someone to n drive you also not teach them by just teach them about stop signs and red lights that is what the book on consent does and said it is a complex human behavior and to be attentive to different input at once i don't want to shock you but that is pretty

similar to sex's we have to do the same kind of training so they can bely prepared to accomplish that personal rmteraction without harming other people. also the role of gwen's mom and how much support how important her mom was when she needed to figure out what she was struggling with she couldn't speak with her mom if she thought her mom would judge her for having sex. we didn't have a lot of stories about dad's in the book so another take-home is for dads to step up to do a little more emotional labor about sex specifically. so one more story this is the classic story you might think of with campus sexual assault. a freshman going to boarding

school very conservative environment and had not had much of aec chance to socialize plus a lot of columbia students she was doing what she needed to do to get into a school so she was excited for college she wanted to lose her virginity and be popular they went to a bar freshman week where they met two seniors and they were so excited to get attention from the seniors they bought them drinks they had that the men with their fake ids because that's what they do is let in pretty girls. the guys bought them drinks was pretty drunk and excited to hang out with scott. she goes back to the fraternity and he is a college

student they sit outside the fraternity waiting to be let in and eventually the other girl catches up she wanted to keep her safe and keep an eye on her friend clearly she knew something was going to happen so scott asked if they want to drink and they say yes and in the fraternity the alcohol is kept on the second floor because fraternities are not allowed to have alcohol so they respond to that rule by keeping it upstairs so he makes some drinks her feet on - - her friend passed out immediately and in touch or drink and said want to go up to my room and they were making out all night she was basking in the attention so they went upstairs to his room and takes off her pants. she said no.

he said it's okay. but it wasn't because he raped her. he did not listen to her so that is a classic story when you think of a sexual assault on campus if you only think of that of him as a man in her as a woman you capture part of that because he was bigger but he was also a senior and in a space he controlled not just in the building he lived in surrounded by friends but on the third floor in a place she had never been added institution he's been there for three years and knew what college students do and don't do she was unfamiliar with a lot so one of the things we do in teethree is show how there are a lot of different ways you need to think about power to understand what needs to

change to prevent campus sexual assault we talk a lot about race and the racial landscape every single black woman we spoke within the interview every single one had experienced unwanted sexual touching that's not a sexual assault problem but we describe in the book the women assaulting men which is a part of the story that is rarely told and we tell the stories from the perspective of the assaulters whose words you rarely hear except in the court room and they are calling their innocence some did not show up to participate so those social patently intentionally harming their

peers did not come to these interviews for obvious reasons but there are three kinds of stories we tell the assaulters i put on a tie so i knew i would have sex. then he tells a story to be invited to a sorority formal by a girl he did not particularly like but she was from a high prestige sorority and he was excited to be invited to a formal there is a very clear campus pecking order he didn't drink she drank a lot she was so drunk at the end of the night in the pouring rain he brought her back to his room he couldn't figure out howm else how to get in bed in time to get up early for his practice and then described having sex with her as she went in and out of e consciousness because for him

it's possible he really was a terrible person and putting on a story but i think if he knew it was a bad thing he wouldn't have told us. he told us a story of assaulting her what he seem to think he was doing was an obligation that she invited him h for most frequently involves sex and that is true it is understood to be consent sex so part of what we do in the book is how to actually have instead of wish it but this is the type wine is the oblivious assaulter as an act of entitlement. there are students in the course of telling the story come to label what they did as assault in some know that what they did was an assault and were very troubled and never figured anyone to talk with

about it so they told us in the hopes that other people could do some good so those of the stories that we share so it isn't so much about preventionut but one key take-home that they need to do more were children are safe from being assaulted and step up as stakeholders and asked them to steps up to think about the role of sexual assault prevention. it's very important to do this before college. in a survey one quarter of women who participated were assaulted before they started college. with some form of unwanted nonconsensual sexual content that's a risk factor for being assaultedd in college so that

prevention more need to start before hand we also found women who got sex education that included training saying no to sex they did not wantan to have it was half is likely to be raped. so that is a really big effect as effective a vaccine as the flu shot and we spend a lot of time and effort to a make sure everybody gets a shot we need to spend the same amount of effort to make sure everybody gets sex ed because that is what it will take to get the herd immunity it will not do it by itself that keeps all sexual assaults from happening but it is the way to teach people to not assault other people sex ed isn't just

preventing people from being assaulted but a way to keep them from being the assaulter. parents obviously knew this step up and raise children who know better you don't just telltc your kids so teaching your children how not to be the assaulter involves the messages how to be a decent human being if you step on someone's foot you told him to apologize y but teach them not to step on other people's feet so all the work parents do to help young people manage their body think about oral hygiene. every night you watch their kids you don't trust them you actually watch them so that same level of effort not just about wearing condoms and make sure they have pregnancy

prevention but also talking how it figures into their relationships and what that will mean to them in their of their lives that's the conversation people need to be having there is the legislative message that the #metoo movement is good at keeping the violence on the front burner not always having a clear policy agenda comprehensive sex ed works. there are so many variables after they readfr the book they should call her state llegislature to demand they provide education because we knowar that is less sexual assault on campus. so that's it. let's talk. [applause]

>> i am curious do you have beany numbers or statistics about how many young and what men and women do have unwanted sexual advances in college or even in the country every year? >> the rates that we found on campus are similar to the rates h that have been shown at campuses across the country so we found that by graduation one out of three women had experience nonconsensual sexual contact is not always rape it could be unwanted touching but that could be scary. so that is the survey and pretty much the s numbers that have been shown and it's important to note the rates of

sexual assault or higher for women than those who are not in college and they are easier to survey because they are all in one place so yeah those are the numbers this is the problem all institutions face. >> thank you for your talk i have a follow-up. you mention you have a senior and then a freshman and you outright said that that unequal power dynamic that could lead to cases where people think they areo entitled to that sexualal experience. so out of those people one out of those three women that have that unwanted sexual encounte encounter, what percentage are freshmen or freshmen or junior

junior as opposed to senior freshmen? >> that is a question i would say survey research people talk about so i have a non- answer to your question but we do know that the beginning. of freshman year is referred to as the red zone one of the things we call attention to is power disparities so because it's typical for women to have intimate relationships with men who arere older that have the most possible partners in the campus social world where senior men have the most partners so that men and in

particular aldermen or older wealthy white men need work in acknowledging their ownn social power think about lucy and scott. we did not interviewew scott but in that instance lucy said no and he said it's okay. he was not seeing her as a person and probably the most charitable interpretation we could make is he was unaware of his own power support that prevention work needs to be to help those who are more powerful to see that power and engage with them in a conversation about checking themselves in a way they don't feel attacked. it's not their fault they were born white men and it's not their fault they were born into a wealthy family but being in a fraternity and then

the third floor they are vulnerable to assaulting someone and if they are drunk they are more likely to do that so to help people thinkng about how to move safely through the world without hurting their peers is something we can do. >> thank you. >> i know this research is obviously ongoing but do you have anything specifically set up post writing of this book? >> i have been on the a jillion campuses living out of my suitcase. not focus out of theoo book on - - after the book i have enjoyed the high school talks i have given and i would like to continue bookstores all over interested in hosting as i would like to continue talking with young people and with parents about what is the

worst they need to do and i think working with legislatures every state in america has comprehensive stack on --dash sex ed and until then my work is not done. >> how do you manage the process of changing by which we teach sex ed especially in the public school sector so you alluded to that spark plug analogy so do you have any ideas how to go about that? >> there are states that change their laws so california has the healthy youth ask all people in california starting in middle school, every single public school in the state gets comprehensive sex ed that is inclusive. it speaks to racial inequality

and reflects the experiences that colorado passed a law that if they want to teach it has to be comprehensive to be discussed in new york and georgia and kentucky and alabamao it is a moment of opportunity because whenever people think about premarital sex nobody wants to mistakenly assault someone. we are all on the same tea team, team parent about launching our kids safely into thes world. so it is a moment of opportunity an american educational system to reproduce in the quality so we are swimming upstream to push against that right now if you are rich and live in the urban area, you're much more likely to get sex education more like

driving than the spark plugs. if you are poor and live in the i rural area your likely not to get any at all. so only the rich kids get it. we could do better. >> thank you. >> i'm interested when you talk about the sexual profiles of people and then come to talk about it. so i feel like there are more spaces being opened for those that have been assaulted but there's not enough of spaces for those who commit assault and that's the problem with

the ways of dealing not only with sexual violence that they are innocent so if you those that are able to recognize and have that happen how did they manage to perceive what they had done before? >> it's important to acknowledge there were not very o many some of them had been in therapy with one on one but you make a veryco important point that there is no institutional feedback for people who have harmed someone.

you need to do the repair and you need to learn to do better. so right now we will not punish our way out of this and the punitive framework keeps people from telling other people that they harm to them because they know there's only a hard hammer not a soft hammer. and to get that feedback what you did hurt me and did not feel good. and the person that is harmed so it's primarily not about adjudication and punishment but we are supportive of restorative justice and to

think about a place is not assault but unkind and confusing and that it doesn't feel good to them and those that don't feel good and then to work that out and that is the framework also for the assaulters to come forward and get some help working on that we don't use the word offender we are not looking for a psychological or legal framework we just call them assaulters because those who have sex with men don't call themselves gay. it is someone who assaulted somebody but not the assaulter

as who they are but they need to learn to have sex that is not damaging to the people aroundma them. thank you very much. good work. thank you for coming out. >> now there is a couple of strategies will you sell to facebook or google's that works the ability of innovators in silicon valley to innovate according to

market needs and ideas and instead everybody thinks how can i develop something that facebook or google will buy. that is not how the economy should function.

>> when it comes to people from gathering to gather how close are we to remote going into that building behind me are we closer? >> no. is there why it affects people

differently? >> this virus is much more transmissible than any other viruses that we have including influenza. >> do you have any way to push the idea for that recovery preparedness up if it is a top priority or the second most important priority. >> i was smiling as you say that because the second highest priority i would argue it is often times the last. or . [inaudible conversations]