had adopted in evolved and i'm trying to trace the history of how that happened and where they are now. >> to watch the rest of this event visit our website booktv.org and search for david or the title of his book the dragons in the snakes using the box at the top of the page. >> on behalf of seattle and the american constitution society is a pleasure to welcome you tonight's lifestream presentation with the author david daily and conversation with chris, as you can and i don't want to acknowledge when were on her home that that institution stands on the traditional territory of the family people particularly the one he has tried, we thank them for her continuing use of the natural resources of their homeland. i want to thank you all for tuning in, we are thrilled to

present tonight's event virtually in the midst of the concerns surrounding public health, townhall is proud to be a community focus organization in a place we can share the same ideas and creativity even though we cannot gather together in person and i want to think chris and david for us making that possible. townhall pursue options for producing content like tonight's lifestream in many of our past are available in video podcast on a digital media library, stand touch with us as we announce further events in coming weeks. unfortunately tonight's broadcast is not future close captioning services however, captions will be available once the video is uploaded to our youtube page which will be as soon as we can. i should be more specific that should be in the next 36 hours. many of the organizations within the community are presenting free or assessable content during this period of social distancing on the board theater with free contemporary performance films through the end of april, the lectures is hosting a comprehensive archive at their literary podcast on air in northwest is streaming online

to pay what you can to support their virtual platform. i encourage you to support those in other entrepreneurial solutions they are merging right now to keep you connected to the ideas in a region. townhall in the nonprofit community is been put under significant strain of event cancellations and we hope you will consider extending your generosity tonight by supporting us in the difficult time by making a donation, clicking on the donate tab in providing what do you think. our partner booksellers have also been hit by the negative effects of the covert outbreak and continues your support, if you're interested in supporting local independent bookstores and by purchasing a copy of his book being presented tonight, use the link on the lifestream page to purchase through our friends at third-place book, we will have copies for sale that will feature book links inside and free shipping. if you want to buy it, there's the best place to purchase your

book, we hope you will. you know if i had been able to get to the green room i would know exactly how long they're intending to speak tonight but typically we ask for something in the 30 - 40 minute followed by a moderated question and answer session, we'll just say he'll talk for as long as it takes and that's all. our moderator tonight will select questions from the submitted, we asked a question at the bottom of your screen, you can also vote on which questions our speakers will answer first by clicking the arrow next to uploaded, we cannot guarantee the speakers will be able to address every question, we will try to get to as many as possible and as always like to say in person, keep your questions concise in the form of a question. >> townhall's work is made possible for your support and the support of our sponsors by the real network foundation, this is long when i deliver this in person but it's interminable during the screen, thank you everyone was suffering with me too now, and with a live

interest. our series with the meal network in the true brown foundation, ko w and they wouldn' foundation n. in the townhall members know it's our membership about 6000 of you who keep this place strong year in year out. i want to thank all the members watching encourage those who care about townhall in his mission to join as well. >> david daily is a senior fellow for fear book and the author can i see the on the radio, on the internet. >> i think i spend a lot of times at the internet every day, at any rate the true story behind the secret plan of america's democracy which helped spark the recent drives to reform gerrymandering a lecturer in media source about the topic about the former editor-in-chief of salon.com and the former ceo and publisher of the connecticut news project. the digital media for the wilson

center of humanities and journalism at the university of georgia, this is appeared in the new yorker, and washington post, guardian, atlantic, "rolling stone", as well as appearances as a correspondent on cnn and npr. he also helped identify mark as the deep throat for bob woodward and carl bernstein. if i was ready for myself and meditech that an earlier. at any rate he is a political activist and founding member of the group nirvana. . . .

>> thank you. thank you everybody for tuning into the townhall. and i hope that everybody is happy and sane and healthy during this pandemic. and doing the best you can. and you should make it through. and so david daley, my colleagu colleague, he has a new book called "unrigged" so tonight's conversation is going to be about gerrymandering where political insiders and political elites

with single member districts those lines were drawn to benefit themselves and their political parties. so we will talk about gerrymandering and other proposed solutions mainly proportional representation. so his new book is out i will turn it over to you. let's hear it. >> thank you. im really sorry not to be out there with everyone tonight. i hope you're all safe and sane. we've all banded together through doctors and nurses and grocery stores and all of the essential workers who are so carefully doing their jobs for all the rest of us. at town hall and third place for some books tonight and the

constitution society everybody could use your help and support with these amazing bookstores and activist groups so get involved during these difficult days. we could also use some optimism and this new book began with a quest for hope like mentioned in the introductions. and it pretty much has to have a medical title and then to first lay out the highly effective republican strategy with the state legislature in competitive states like ohio and north carolina pennsylvania, and through the redistricting year with all of

these lines and then to account for population and the quality and the use those single-member districts and with that mapmaking software and these new data sets that make it possible to go up and down the street and choose their own voters. so at this point it is an amazing number there are 59 million americans almost one out of five of us that live in the state where one or both chambers is controlled by the party that one fewer votes in 2018. one out of five. and each that make it more

difficult for people to vote in specific ways earlier in the decade and the electoral college by a margin of 80000 votes and americans woke up the next day to a deeply divided country closely divided but also political power that the supreme court nationwide was all concentrated it is bad representative democracy. and then a toxic combination of single-member districts and gerrymandering with the unaccountable legislatures.

to tie the democracy into a profoundly unfair double not and had established the unbeatable minority rule in competitive places and it's hard to see a solution for the crisis that i thought contributed so deeply to the extremism in the sense of hopelessness. and then to have a dark rain cloud and i wanted to get rid of that. that i saw a facebook post after a young woman and she has an amazing story on election night 2016 she leaves her job working at a recycling nonprofit in grand rapids

michigan and she flies to new york with a golden ticket for hillary clinton victory party. that did not go is exactly as planned. and then is terrified what thanksgiving will be there are trump supporters, disappointed hillary backers, she is already imagining mashed potatoes and gravy flying across the table. so she goes to social media and says i will take on gerrymandering in michigan. if you want to do that as well join me here with us :-) some og. at the end of all of thi this, gerrymandering in michigan has really severed the connection between the ballot box and the popular will in michigan but yet nobody will do anything about it for the entire decade.

that post by a 27 -year-old pioneered this redistricting revolution in the state that no one thought could happen. and to marshall 4000-dollar tears and they clicked 430,000 signatures they make it on the ballot the first time in michigan this has happened without having to pay collectors to go out and do it. they take back the koch brothers money and divorce and us money which was 62 percent they will have the independent commission drawing the lines in michigan. but not long after that to take on the really difficult task to return voting rights

to one one.7 million for those that lost the civic voice. and with that conviction even after they have served. and that snared of that and's of that of all the black man. and she was one of them. and then that led to a felony weapons charge and one afternoon after his release he is homeless and still struggling with drugs. and standing before the railway tracks in miami and just waiting for the next train to come. or it doesn't arrive in walks across the tracks and then to

be guided by some kind of power and finds himself at a drug treatment center checks himself in turns to college earns a law degree but one thing that you cannot do in florida, no matter what so he doesn't have the right to vote so he becomes the doctor on - - director of the florida rights commission to build an amazing coalition. with the ex-cons and second chance believing churchgoers tattooed trump loving deplorable's and radical criminal justice performers and this is actually funded by the aclu and koch brothers at the same time. and then to elect a republican governor and that big majority.

they are back restoring the voting rights. so they stood up to vote for fairness. i was really inspired by the stories. it's just the way they triumphed over this sense of despair over politics i'm sure we didn't need another book how democracy dies. i wanted to set out to join the quiet revolutionaries. and what we needed the most and that they were high and stout and and then to take them on. and then with voters, not politicians, utah, missouri

also a campaign against gerrymandering across the red rock desert of utah and the tribal lands of dakotas in these heroic pushes to determine the street addresses and to make ids to preserve their voices against the voter id bills and the medicaid express across idaho with these millennial activist to dinner stand whether legislature would not take the obama care money back from the federal government to ensure 70000 of their neighbors had health insurance. in alabama with the state legislature finally voted to turn voting rights that was denied to former prisoners. but they would not do anything until they went door to door to bus stations and barbershops with concerned citizens who were determined to add these people back to

the voting rolls. they one big and they want everywhere it was just amazing to watch because this time that the new cycle feeds exhaustion and i could go out and spend a year riding along with the people and watching msnbc and in idaho the medicaid expansion issues , with the two recent graduates from the high school way up north in idaho studying medicine in history. if they have organization skills that was up against the bitter and well-funded opposition and they came back and organized and they want and they are hungry for more. they decided to take on

healthcare in idaho as their issue. they painted that 40 -year-old rv and with the medicaid express going from corner to corner to collect signatures and in a one-party state, they captured 61 percent of the vote the old-fashioned way they knocked on their neighbors doors and they persuaded them and i joined them in idaho falls for this amazing moment where we walk up the driveway it was a parking lot and a car said vietnam bumper sticker we were winning it when i left. i'm thinking maybe we should move on. knock on the door down there. this one might not be a very good bet but the man inside comes to the door and says yes. i know exactly what you are talking about. my wife was in that gap in my

daughter was i'm completely with you so just by talking to folks you get a sense maybe we were not as polarized as we would have been or as people like to say we are. so there are powerful stories of the north dakota as well which is a state that had such clean elections and don't even bother requiring a voter registration there. but in 2013, right after the native american vote catapulted heidi on --dash heidi had camp into the senate and the legislators decided to pass voter id law and then they mandated the one thing that did not exist in tribal lands. the tribes could not this back in court every time a court word order but then the

legislature would come back and refine it and try again and finally 2018 just before election day they got a judge that okay that in the voter id restrictions could go into law and these tribes just got to work they got in touch with professors and academics and experts in mapping and all of the sophisticated work to nail down addresses for all of the homes in chicagoland and then printed ids and burned the id machines out because they made so many turnout sword. it was wild and one of the big wins that night was the first native american woman ever elected to the legislature in the north dakota defeats the man who first proposed the

voter id bill in 2013. it was pretty amazing to see. and you see this happening all over the country. i watched it in maine homes of rich tradition where citizens demanded a voting system that allowed them to rank all of their choices without plurality winner that most people oppose. them both parties stood in the way long petition drives not once but twice and they one. the people did not wait for the supreme court or a superhero candidate they chain the protectors of democracy that for the courts to be that

we actually want our representatives to be. now some of these victories have been pushed on in some of these legislatures have not embraced them all, but i think it's important to remember that two steps forward or half step back to the history of voting rights in this country is of the retraction that has never been a straight line and the current chapter is just the latest of the struggle of the vote of the nation itself. and we can imagine the history of the nation but it hasn't been that way the struggle did not win the 13th or 14th or 15th amendment and then the voting rights act, didn't end with these victories on election day. there is a lot of work and

that will get a lot more difficult and to keep a democracy that requires a lot of work. what all of these stories really show is that when regular citizens united and fight for the democracy that they wan want, when they grab onto the mlk moral arc of justice, and pull it down hard, the structural barriers they don't stand under that kind of pressure. let me just leave you really quick with a story from alabama that really stays with me. it was a night in the 19 nineties in rural alabama that lost their voting rights forever that was the night it might sound familiar to a lot of high school friends and

classmates car they go through a drive-through and someone passes around the joint and then there is a police car and white officers are wondering what the odor might be other cops would've looked the other way and a lot of other towns that night. they did. but this evening they gave them drug possession charges for everybody now they are felons instead of seniors and drug possession even minor, also was called the crime of moral turpitude and if you are guilty of that you forfeit your right to vote forever. she was 17 years old and had never voted and never would her most important right as a citizen even before she was able to use it.

she had no idea about voting but those who deny the alabama constitution were definitely thinking about voting back in the 18 seventies and those were the ones that attract or 120 years later finally alabama legislature reversed moral turpitude under the court decision but the state doesn't tell anybody what they have done about it. they quietly and that, refused to sign up people to get back on the voting rolls, so citizen started to go door to door to do this work. that's how i met her and heard her story at the birmingham bus station one morning she was about to grab a ride to the hair salon where she works

we asked if she was registered to vote most people don't want to admit to a stranger that they have this conviction but finally she said i can't and we said you probably can as long as it's not one of these three serious charges you can do this. we handed her the form and it takes a couple of minutes and we get her her right back and it seems like there were tears falling for all of us that scene still really moves me. and i think that is what all of this is about and what we are fighting for. for people like sherry. this is a nation built by the people and whether they are walking for suffrage or across the bridge progress has been long and hard but and that

responsibility for progress is to pass on to all of us to believe in principle or partisanship. and with that equal protection. and one person one vote. and it was rich within the american people that citizens he would never join a protest. and those movements. and that the work would be too hard. and it would be to long or uncertain for that kind of a list. and those made those real that the ballot box.

and then inspiring red state and blue state. and that must represent for all. and by former felons in suburban women and americans of all wages and races to believe to create is beyond them. that is underway. and it did for me. thank you. >> thank you david. i'm so proud of you and the work you do. i'm proud to work with you.

and what you are advocating basically is freedom. people can resist forces. i am not an antigovernment person by any means. but sometimes the state on - - the state can come down a little too hard. we can push back through political organizing. and that gets me to my story on how i started. so we go through this covid-19 coronavirus, and i think we will come out of this with the transition of the 21st century. and it's 20 years now and there has to be new structures and do things in new ways. you are talking about going out to the communities and talking with people.

and to do that in the post- covert world that is not political participation and in the early nineties but at the same time all over the world they move soundgarden, nirvana soundgarden, nirvana, space needle, all of these icons of seattle and washington state one - - state. but at the same time if you are an adult between the ages of 18 and 20 years old and i

can see this happening. and we engage the state and we take on the city. and music promoters and beer distributors. and working in the ecosystem. and that seattle music brings cultural and economic vitality. and we take the message to state agencies and legislatures and legislators start to respond to that. and then to turn things around.

and it was a lots of work and in the meantime to have as much fun as possible so there is a difference. you see people who can save. you have got to live life. i'm involved in my community. and with county commission meetings. and that is how you stay involved. along the way, i got my civic education working with jampacked coalition and i learn how does a bill work? how do all these agencies that do this cracks and the

legislature and that legislation that they enact this. and how do you negotiate the system? and then i looked at voting rules. we have some bad opponents to the legislature another is the censorship to have this erotic music to have a sticker on your music to say this is harmful to minors and then that the adult music store so in the adult section you probably sell more records that way. it is not safe for work. [laughter] and fsw. that's not right that is censorship. so we would have these opponents and we should run somebody against that person and to say the way they do the

districts and there are so many like-minded voters and with 42 percent of the vote , the opponent word but that doesn't seem fair to me. so i was on the alta vista search engine at the time. do you want to buy stock in google? [laughter] that's a stupid name that will never go where - - anywhere. i am on alta vista. [laughter] i'm just kidding. anyway this is 1996 and i come across electoral reform and there is one group in the

united states and we have representation all for the european born. and the late john b anderson. and the campaign for president. so and i started to learn a lot and then to empower voters and your voices so that these ideas are established and taught in law school and with those proportional systems

about 100 places in the united states and the case law has been upheld by the courts. and to be constitutionally protected idea. and with the voting rights act to give them more voices and choices to describe the scenarios when legislators were shutting people out. so with the voting rights act we don't have to have a single member district, you can have a multi- member district. it's not like the at-large that causes problems it is proportional representation.

so what is it not per for one - - proportional representation the parliamentary system is a system of government. that is why there is a unicameral legislature and they lack the leader of the country who is a prime minister. the united kingdom, westminster, that is a parliamentary system but it is very similar to the united states. and those single-member districts. and then they have a parliament. so here in the united states we could have a proportional voting system or in the united kingdom also.

so one is a proportional system. and that voters words share representation. and to be elected three democrats and one republican or vice versa. because that is shared. and people pay taxes they are subject to the rules of the land and they deserve to have a voice and that is what i believe that freedom is. so gerrymandering as you know is very wonky and very sophisticated process. all kinds of computers, and

it's done in the shadows. and then to do it all transparent. and the belly is a on - - the county is a certain way. and with those third parties and independent candidates with that proportional representation. and in washington state we have these districts for you to get your ballot and washington state house of representatives, position one, position to. that is not in the state constitution.

that was invented in olympia 1966. i can tell you the whole story behind it but i don't want to burn up time. for example we could have a system, using existing districts from 2011, and you could give your voters to have two seats, a proportional system. looking at eastern washington justice he of fred legislators. mike 35 or 40 percent of voters then they never elect anybody. so with this system you get one vote in the top to vote getters when. and then to that by on - - that delegation but that would

be six in search of two democrats. instead of another party active in seattle. and that will be elected to the legislature. and the state redistricting commission. i watch it closely in 2011. you are right. i agree 100 percent every state needs to have independent redistricting commission to draw lines on every level but they can only go so far. and the commission. and in 2011 i was not happy at

all and peter callahan and dad investigative journalism and those legislature were all over the map. they wanted those precincts. and in washington state we have independent redistricting. so basically the two parties and the incumbents and callahan colluded in his article so they brush up against the public open meetings law.

and then to have the meetings and they are down behind closed doors. if we had a proportional system and one that one - - one vote and then in republican. or as the democrats or more moderation. and i think we can do it. so there you have it.

>>. >> if you have questions there is the asked the question module at the bottom. >> i'm glad to be participating and thank you for doing this. you have a question i recently got involved with the voting efforts in washington and i'm just learning so this may seem like a dumb question. but will this effort benefit the limited gerrymandering efforts that are related somehow? that is from caroline. >> yes there is a local option bill doing really good work. and it is in olympia to give

local communities the option and for single winners and a governor and the mayor or whatever. and then there is a proportional version of it and to use that for the senate in australia. but use it in malta, and in massachusetts. so basically it is a system with a three seat district and you just rank your candidates then you should be elected as a threshold. but the vote transfers we

don't have to get into the weeds right now, but this is a form of proportionate representation. and for proportional voting for the united states. and with the european countries that is a party system. and if that candidate and we can also vote for independence. and it is a candidate based system. and it is protected and recently the insiders have gone after it and the courts have consistently upheld that.

it is a very powerful way that basically solves gerrymandering. because you share that representation. it is democrat but your neighbor votes republican but you are likely to elected somebody in there isn't a majority legislature that's where it works. and the second part of that the majority in the legislature anyway another thing about this kind of voting of ranked choice voting, i lost my train of thought. it is very conservative threshold so in israel it is

three.5 percent they bumped it up a little bit but it's complicated and that threshold of 4 percent. that threshold is 8 percent under that party list voting and that ring choice voting and in order to get elected it could be 33 percent or 25 percent. and with that system americans like that. and of ranked choice voting.

and that is the conservative threshold and it is candidate based. >> super quickly, you are telling us if it would benefit the gerrymandering efforts. the bad things about gerrymandering is it destroys competitive districts. if you don't have competitive districts, what you get the only race that matters is the primary then you have low turnout, summer primaries for the base and then you end up with extreme candidates so it is just a lopsided

uncompetitive hyper extreme. and when you can fix the districts by either having bigger districts and elect multiple people or ring choice voting in primaries or in general elections, you can get around that. that makes the lines matter less if you can come up with a system around the ability of politicians to manipulate in their favor. >> last year the new york times ran a couple of major editorials. and with those proportional representation. >> washington state has a bipartisan redistricting

commission to help and to stay in power and that they get together. >> and then if somebody complains there are certain rules to enable legislation to enact the redistricting commission then to join the state auditor to join the map and hold the map up because the commission doesn't follow these rules. if you look at what happened

last time. and it gets pretty wonky. >> so commissions are only as good and bad as criteria of how they are set up to function. if you have a commission made up of politicians to draw themselves. >> and political appointees in washington there are two republicans and two democrats of the two major parties and then one independent sheriff. but you have to remember with this criteria we are the independent commission that we have to draw single-member districts. so you cannot draw 100 percent

competitive districts because there are other criteria. the commission did a good job like compact you are supposed to keep points of interest to gather but you really want to have a competitive district and capitol hill in seattle and if you know where that is, and so that proportional representation all of that goes away. so you have these larger districts. the new york times has an op-ed last year and they endorse the idea for ranked choice voting and proportional representation for the house of representatives there is no constitutional barrier. you have to repeal a statute from 1967 for a dual member

district, these are all political decisions and statutory deals. so basically there will be a three or four or five member districts. but the second thing they advocated was enlarging the size of the house by 100 feet. currently 435 seats and prior to then nowhere does it say 435 that's another political decision made in 1911. that is where they stop so the new york times says what's have 535 seats which would make the house about the size of the german. that is not unreasonable. so you would have larger districts but at the same time they would not be

geographically larger because they are 100 more seats in the house and that would bring the us house closer to the people. that is how it would work. so then you call your representative i live in southwest washington it is a safe republican seat. even though the democrat gets 45 percent of the vote so that goes down the drain. that is a lot of votes to select nothing. and nancy pelosi democrats won the house in 2018 because they have to get a super majority of votes just to do that because republicans have a numerical advantage. not only in the u.s. senate by

population and conservatives and the advantage of the electoral college and republicans have the advantage. so basically we are proposing to be constitutionally protected and statutory change. and then along the way more democrats coming out of the midwest you will get republicans coming out of new york city you have gay guys getting elected. the conservatives socially liberal. and there is a different ballgame to shape things on - - to shake things up. and then with the anti- party rule to have more grassroots participation. because what we have done people hate political parties

so much to throw out the baby with the bathwater and to suppress the grassroots participation. and what has happened in a political vacuum you have a multibillion-dollar consulting industry. and that i deserve it. if you have all these consultants and insiders in a recruit candidates, they lobby it is a professional consultant that is messed up politics and then we need to go back to more grassroots participation because that is what david was talking about in his book "unrigged" we need to have empowered parties because we have these celebrity politicians we don't

need more celebrity politicians we need more political participation. we need political association. >> how do we stop the republicans to keep people from discouraging people from voting? >> that is a timely question we have been thinking about. i would hope what we see of what we know is a big extension and the idea right now that we will have millions of people lined up to go vote through senior centers and schools and libraries with senior citizens and retirees it just seems completely impossible to imagine. imagine if we are 6 feet apart at the polling station and

then wiping down election machines, it will not work. we have to dramatically expand those type of options people have. it will not be easy to do. and then to be perfected overnight it takes time to create a good vote by mail system. there's only 210 days until the election and there is a lot that has to be done and laws have to be passed nationally to give people fair and even access to the ballot without having the excuse. and two thirds of the state you can get vote by mail ballot with no excuse but in one third you cannot you have to have a specific excuse and a pandemic is not one of them. the machinery has to be purchased in postage and workers have to be trained

, and state laws adjusted with when votes can be counted. and they were super close and down to the wire and they both expanded vote by mail but with a have not done this pass a state statute that they can start counting these votes before election day. so the officials cannot even start opening the ballots until election day even though they are accommodating two weeks ahead of time you may not get results out of those states for a couple of days and then just imagine if somebody goes on tv and appears to have the lead on election night but then it changes overnight just like michigan change the outcome of the race. if we don't begin thinking through all of those question

questions, who gets the ballot how do you do online voter registration add the time when you can't get within 6 feet of one another. there is a lot of things we have got to be thinking about in 200 days what happened in ohio last month it was scary. you have the governor to postpone a primary before the primary, the court say he can't do it then the governor public health department shut it down the next morning anyway. they had every right to do that. and then they saw the turnout drop dramatically. but imagine if we get to october and we are postponing elections. it is a dramatic and scary thin thing. so i hope we see this through and see it through quickly.

>> trying to bounce around to different topics, despite massive electoral victories with gerrymandering those that are dedicated to reversing progress and with those behaviors to preserve their power. >> yes. it is anti- science agenda what you think those supporters that it could come with fairness baked in? so what i saw when i went around the country reporting this book and what i see on the gerrymandering. and i don't see that in these elections. in michigan the independent

commission one was 62 percent of the vote we restore felon voting rights was 64 percent. in colorado and ohio redistricting upwards of 70 percent in missouri, sixties. so i really do think that most americans is a question of basic fairness and is not as partisan as the representatives turned it into. the folks who get elected and change the laws to keep themselves in power are the problem. it is a real problem. i don't want to sugarcoat how difficult it is to defeat the folks who will go to any

extreme to entrench themselves in power. what you saw in florida with 54 percent of the people want to restore those voting rights and then the legislature goes ahead and then puts a poll tax on top of that was horrifying. . . . . >> it's extremely hard, this is where john roberts was so disingenuous in the decision that came down last year in the year before from the north carolina case, he said voters can fix this, voters who drew the lines out of office, it's

like no, no they can't, if they could do that, voters would not be resorting to petition drives and spending their time trying to establish independent commission, it's not what most voters want to do with their free time. >> democrats passed a bill to restore section five. >> yeah, part of house bill one, you look at -- house bill one, that was a big bill, a lot of stuff in that bill. you look at wisconsin were in 2018 democrats defeat scott walker, they reelect amy baldwin, democrats you everything statewide office and win 200,000 more votes for the state assembly but 63 - 36 edge.

>> you cannot change that the ballot box, i am sorry mr. chief justice, it does not work that way, this is why we move the court and it will be really, really hard to beat in some of these places but the only way to do it in some states is to keep going and keep trying. >> what else do we have. >> is there any questions. >> we've looked, okay. >> do you worried about them worried under minority in the senate, 40 million in california get the same representation, why

question -- that was wyoming. 40 million california get the same senate representation of 580,000 wyoming and it seems like the senate is always right, is there any ideas of what can be done or any other thoughts. >> do you have an idea, i'll be brief. >> go for. >> federalism, you have a giant federal government spending a lot of money, there's a whole military-industrial complex of lloyd money and that benefits a lot of the red states of proportional representation again concedes to the u.s. house and there is more representatives coming out of california so that gives more balance right,.

>> i think we have to change the senate entirely in the senate is about to become this deeply unrepresentative and dangerously unchecked institution by 2040 it said 70% of the population is going to have 30% of the representation in the senate and it is going to be really hard to move anything that 70% of the public wants, it will have a block from 30% of 70 seats and we have to think about basic and is going to be really hard to do but there's a really interesting proposal from the professor pennsylvania which says how about if every state gets one senator and then you add fiber six more in the near 105 - 106

and divide those of the 56 up proportionately and you balance the chamber a little bit that way, i think you're exactly right, the idea that wyoming can have more senators, it's a lot of work. >> and the other ways of people indeed voters and postal states will say we are spending all this money to states that elect, maybe that money would be better served here in washington and california. >> this professor in the atlantic did a couple years ago and it short and very best proposal i've seen, recommende. >> we have time for one or two more.

>> go ahead. >> let's see. >> the indian electoral college, do you want to do that one. >> there is a terrific new book on this by jesse what the people choose the president, i would highly recommend that on fresh air and you should definitely go back and take a look at that. i would be all for. >> even washington, california part of the interstate contact. >> that is great, it is so funny the contraction of a system that we have set up, if you are starting from scratch and setting something up you will never come up with anything as wild as this and it just seems

as if it has outlived its usefulness. >> congress gave up so much of its power to the executive. >> one of the things i worry about is if -- i will end here. one of the things that i really really worry about is article two section one of the constitution gives the power to choose elect doors to the gerrymander's state legislates which are so often gerrymandered and if we do not come up with ways to ensure that the vote is safeguarded this november, what you could see is some of the states are unable to vote or if the votes cannot be counted, is the power to choose the elect doors going to the state

legislator, does not go to the state legislature with veto power by the governor, the legislature can choose the elect doors. >> that is bush igor. >> it affirms this in bush igor, there's no individual right to vote for president in the united states. >> people talk right now can trump cancel the election, no, the president cannot do that, election date is set by congress but it is not going to happen with the divided government but what could very well happen is you could have individual states that do not -- the unable to hold elections or whatever and who would've imagined that marcs position so i don't think we

have any sense of what happens in november, remember this article two section one the state legislature can choose elect doors, we don't have any individual right to do that in states. >> using right choice voting to its electors, has four electors, two at large and one for each congressional district and they are going to choose their electors through voting ballot this november, it will be really interesting. >> awesome, thank you chris, thank you to all of you, thank you townhall, you can buy the books on below, i will send out books or in happy to send them

in person, i hope you get out to seattle again sometime soon so i can be all with you tonight, thank you to the american constitutional society and hi candace. >> hi. >> i'm candace i'm the event manager and i want to say thank you to david and chris for your insight tonight in this important topic, thank you walked to the viewing audience for joining us, please consider following this townhall, the podcast channel by clicking the following link, the follow button at the top right of your screen and you can also support us by donating by clicking the donate button, please her member to support our partner booksellers, by purchasing a copy of david's new book and buy the book button at the bottom center of the screen, we will

see you again next time, thank you again to both of you for being here and everybody stay safe. >> here is the best-selling nonfiction books, and pasadena, california, topping the list is the splendid, aaron larson of winston churchill's leadership during the london blitz. that is followed by glynn in doyle's memoir untamed, after that tear westover's account of growing up in the idaho mounds and her introduction to formal education at the age of 17 in her book educated. this book is on the bestsellers list for more than two years. and then katie orphan explores l.a. book culture and readme los angeles, wrapping up her look at the best-selling nonfiction books at romans bookstore is becoming, former first lady michelle obama's memoir becoming was the best-selling book of 2018. some of these offers appeared on

book tv and you can watch them online at booktv.org. >> the president from public affairs available now in paperback and e-book. presents biographies of every president organized by the ranking by noted historians from best to worst and features perspectives into the lives of our nation's chief executive and leadership styles, visit our website cspan.org/thepresident to learn more about each president and historian features and order your copy today wherever books and e-books are sold. in 2000, on c-span book note program science journalist gina talks about the history of influenza specifically the 1918 outbreak, here's a portion of that interview. >> some people say that every

major pandemic around the world has begun in southern china. there is a reason why they think this is such a hotspot. in order to really sweep the world you have to get a flu that is so different than anything you've seen and everybody in the world is susceptible to it, one way is to get a flu that is not been seen by human beings and birds can affect the flu all the time, they don't even get sick, word flus are definitely different that infect people. tics can be infected and come out with the new flu has characteristics in human characteristics and can infect people. >> to watch the rest of the program and find other books on pandemics visit our website booktv.org. tight pandemic in the wordbook into the search box at the top of the page.

>> is a coronavirus continues to impact the country, here's a look at the publishing industry doing to address ongoing pandemic, former first lady michelle obama announced a weekly children's story time that will stream every monday at 12:00 p.m. eastern until may 20 and is available to watch online at pbs kids youtube channel or penguin random houses facebook page, north america's largest book expo has canceled this year showed scheduled to take place in new york city, the conference was originally set this spring and move back to july before was ultimately canceled, the american booksellers association independent bookstore day has been rescheduled for august 29 and the aba has announced a virtual bookstore party to be held from april 19 through the 35th and will help online events and purchases through pursuits baiting stores, the bookscan reports book skills were up 2.9% for early april from the year prior led by

holiday, educational and kids books. however, adult nonfiction scales all decline from 28% in the same term of 2019, book festivals and conferences continue to be canceled or rescheduled, the american library association cancel their conference this summer in chicago while the fest scheduled for june will not take place in september. the los angeles times festival of books pushed back the 25th annual festival to october they will continue to bring in new programs and publishing news, you can also watch anytime at booktv.org. welcome to our briefing series. i'm tom gilligan the director of the hoover institution. for more than a century the hoover institution has been collecting knowledge and generating ideas that support freedom and improve the