sold. >> tonight on book tv in prime time we look at some author programs with fellows from stanford university hoover institution. facebook profound or chris hughes has a plan to reduce poverty and strength in the middle class. cecilia details her experience of serving as the first latina director of the jemison policy council during the obama administration. and best-selling author james patterson talks about his latest book on the political legacy of the kennedy family and his efforts to assist bookstores impacted by the coronavirus pandemic. as a booktv.org check your program guide for more information. >> hello everybody welcome to politics and prose thank you so much in joining us in our online format as we continue the proud tradition of the

politics and prose to our community. at any time during the event tonight please click the green button below to purchase tonight's book on the website. were offering 5-dollar mass shipping as an incentive is the physical stores are closed and we need the online purchases were known for page 90 can ask the author questioned by the question button neared the bottom of your screen. in that box pops up you can read other peoples questions and vote for the ones you liked your answer the most. a reminder there in person event the author host and audience members cannot see through the screen we welcome you in your pajamas to talk on your show. this deeply researched with nancy pelosi molly ball time magazine political correspondent draws on exclusive interviews to track her career from her election

from congress in 1987 through legislative accomplishments such as universal healthcare, military sure confrontations with trump on impeachment mollies joining in conversation tonight the chief national correspond from your times magazine, welcome molly and mark. >> guest: thank you beth. >> host: i guess were on. >> guest: it's good to be here. >> host: what's great football with got a lot of people here according to the number the bottom the screen we have 428 people. first of all thank you president and mrs. o fama, clinton, carter, bush for all we know everyone in the audience. anyway. thank you for asking me to it do this and thank you for

being here. this is a really great book and i will tell you everett the last couple of days it took me like maybe a day and a half. as a pure pleasure to do i was just telling molly off line, you could see us anyway, it's both a really pleasurable reprieve to read this and at the same time it will be one of those historical things if you want to learn about probably one of the two or three most consequential people of this century so far politically, you will have a document that will tell you everything you need to know about nancy pelosi. and, i have a million questions and i you do too so i'm going to do so were gonna talk for about ask questions and then will turn it over to you all and there's a way to ask questions they can figure out or we will figure it out for you and so forth.

molly juna say something off the top? do just me jumping with questions? i've got a bunch. >> guest: thank you so much mark. i am a huge admirer of your writing and really appreciate you doing this. but yes fire away less just to the dialogue. >> host: let's do it. so you have never written a book before, this is your first. i assume you have heard some of the horror stories of what it's like to write a book you've heard the tramp at stories about how great the process is? what was it like? did you like doing this? so something you would recommend to someone who's never done it before? did it exceed your expectations customer could not meet expectations? what was it like? >> guest: i was totally miserable i would not recommend it. it definitely reminded me of childbirth in the sense that

people tell you how excruciating it's going to be. you sorta oh yeah sure a lot of pain but you don't really internalize exactly how that is going to be until you go through yourself. and you're like oh my god this is really hard. [laughter] people have done much harder things and i don't feel sorry for myself. yes it's hard to write a book and talk about a moving target, wisconsin trying to figure out where i was going to end it given that wonderful characteristic of my subject she is so active in politics. but it means she kept making it difficult to finish the book. right was i was in the process of researching, recording and interviewing people, was right before and leading up to and then during when impeachment was getting underway. you know we thought that was going to be the big story of the 2020 election cycle. now look, maybe not.

it was a challenge, but definitely very fulfilling. not only that i learned a lot from it, but come as you know when you report on politics day in and day out there themes you develop and find in writing there's things you start to feel like you are understanding and a lot of dimensions about american politics. so for me this was a way to bring a lot of that together. it was a way to bring together years and years of recording and writing about congress, women in politics, the way the political system works. and also as a fellow magazine writer you're always writing more words and they're willing to put in the magazine she can have three new pages and throw it all out. steven why did you decide nancy pelosi would be the one to be worthy of however long the stick you? >> guest: well, honestly of all of the political figures i have written about, she was the one felt big enough for a

book, and so i thought it really could take that deep of a dive into her. i read about in the book i was assigned to profile her for "time" magazine when i started working there in 2017. at first i was not thrilled about the assignment and i didn't think she was that interesting. once i got in there and started learning about her and thinking about her, thinking about again the themes and characteristics of her career, they really started to think there were a lot of layers here to unpack, a lot of interesting history and resonance. jeff people don't know about her step i didn't know about her. i actually, i had a conversation with david a few years ago next trying to come up with a book to write and i couldn't come up with anything. i said how did you know you had something worthy of a book

rather than a long article? and he said you just have to be obsessed with it. so this is the first subject i have been obsessed with. c1 david is always been a great person for both insta inspiration push when the right headspace or something like that. i would say -- you mention in the text are part of this maybe was in the endnote but also the text you implied a number of visits is she's not a great interview, she is not -- she doesn't make it fun or easy she doesn't speak off-the-cuff that much she's a very private person. how did you separate how difficult of a net she is to crack with the ambition it takes to actually know you can crack the nut and not to just write even a nursing magazine story or book?

>> guest: yes she's very interesting because so much of politics is about communication. i don't think she'll ever be considered one of the great political or tours of our age. that's not to say she's not bright and articulate and thoughtful, and she's not one of the robotic politicians it so stiff because they are terrified of sin the wrong thing, then they just repeat themselves over and over won't answer any questions. she is not someone who engages in really public introspection. she's not gonna tell you all the things she's been think about herself you have to figure her out. she's not an actual natural storyteller to a lot of compelling political speakers there always really not personal anecdotes there is a conspicuous absence of that of most of her public speaking. it was really kind of an occasion for me to it reflect

on the role of communication and perception in politics and studying her thinking about what is the relationship between how a politician is perceived in what they actually do? how much of that are they responsible for? how much is that our society responsible for? how much does it say about the person being perceived. i don't want to get to a meta and deconstructionist on you, but we hear about this all the time with the president right? a lot of the president's defenders say people get mad at his tweets and so on but look at what he does? a lot of is critical say what he tweets in says meadows just as much is what he does. i don't think there's quite that disjunction and nancy pelosi. the other thing about her as a communicator i would say i think the thing you really get to understand about hers everything with her is about

results it's about what she's going to get out of what the interaction is whether it's the interview, being on television, giving a speech at a fundraiser whatever. so she is just much more interested in driving a message home and she isn't making making you like her or making herself feel good or even making an audience applaud. it's about what is it i am trying to communicate here and how many times do i have to repeat it for you to get the message. >> host: that's a great point. a couple days of go x i interviewed for the first time aoc. who i had never interviewed before. she's a bit of a shadow to nancy pelosi in many ways. she's an insurgent in the house that nancy policy runs in her nontraditional way. she said in a quote to me like she talks about her feelings all at times talks she's very vulnerable open millennial in

that way part i wonder if you ever had any occasion to see nancy pelosi do vulnerability at all? and i wonder if she ever let herself? i'm just sort of wondering what it feels like in some ways what she would let you see? the way she's attacked and targeted the way she is, mischaracterized as the way she is and so forth. >> guest: i would not get a sense of vulnerability from her. i think she let her guard down a little to get snippy with me which was nice that she finally felt like she could blurt out for that. she is not an emotive person certainly think you are right there is something generational about that. i think the generation she comes from, being born in 1940 she is now 80 years old and she comes from a much more

sort of formal era. particularly for women. you alluded to as well you can't separate her, the way she carries herself from how she has been treated, how she has been turned into bogeyman, punching bag literally republicans made attack of the 50-foot pelosi will she's a rampaging giant stomping on people. unlike look, politics and i don't say any that's unfair but when you're the subject of that onslaught, you do build yourself a suit of armor. she described yourself that way put on a suit of battle in the armor. you throw a punch to take a punch. she very much sees politics as combat. she is renowned for her toughness, for stealing us, for her discipline, i think a

lot of that comes from just refusing to be vulnerable in public and refusing to let anyone ever see her sweat. c1 g have any sense there's any element of today's republican party that she feels she could have some kind of good faith dealing with? either in the house, and the administration? >> guest: well, she certainly likes some of the republican governors. she has been dealing directly with a lot of the popular blue state governors have been on the front lines of the coronavirus response. i recently profiled governor of maryland, larry hogan who's got to know him nancy pelosi little bit surprisingly to them both. i think she is one of these, you hear this a lot from democrats these day i miss the old republican parties back when republicans were nice and gentle and you could deal with

them, but look she was literally born into the democratic party there's never been any doubt about her partisan loyalties. she describes her upbringing that way. she said is the catholic church in the democratic party where she came from. and there is an anecdote early in the book where she just moved to california with her husband who is in finance, therefore young children there soon to have another, they just moved from san francisco where she knows nobody. she is staying with her mother-in-law which is pretty unpleasant for everyone involved not that they didn't like each other but i don't think anybody wants to live with her mother-in-law for a long period of time and they're frantically trying to find a house this large and growing brood of theirs. they finally find the perfect place got a yard, swingset, serve rentals perfect for their family as they are about

to sign the papers i think, literally turns and says so where you wrenching at your house announces so moving to washington my husbands accepting a job in the nixon imminent ministration said were excited she turns the realty broker and says i will not take it or refuse 11 house made available by the election of richard nixon. so a democratic partisan and not had loves for the republican party. but that said, she is compost a lot of things on a bipartisan basis throughout her career. i think understanding the way she operates is much more about knowing what your convictions are, having a very firm sense of your values and where you come from. then understanding where the other side is coming from and trying to find a way to meet somewhere in the middle satisfies both parties. it's not about can she go get a drink with this person or

schmooze with mitch mcconnell, she's not a politician like chuck schumer the democratic leader in the senate is more about that kind of schmoozing relationship and the affection between human beings. that is not the way her politics works. she's much more about counting votes and doing those deals. >> host: what is your sense of what she cares about right now these on going stimulus negotiations? it strikes me that democrats are talking all the time about vote by mail, about elections retraction just making sure whatever happens in november is safe on the level and so forth. and yet you don't see the leverage nancy flows he now has ever come out of this. what is your sense of how the next round of negotiating

since it might go? especially given how important those two issues seem to be. >> guest: it has been interesting to watch she is always on this tight rope i guess you could say. it's a real high wire act for her were the last thing she's not pulling out enough against the republicans and republicans calling her an obstructionist for not immediately giving them everything they want. she's got to balance those repeating demands. think what you see she recognizes the urgency of this moment. she knows action has to happen fast and that's hard and it congress is gridlock and acrimonious as this one. she also feels the american people the democrats in charge of the house of representatives for a reason. so therefore they deserve a seat at the table. i think in the early rounds with some of these negotiations for a massive chilean dollar impacting there was an attempt to go around and cut her out.

mitch mcconnell originally did not agree to her demands to have what they call for corner negotiations between the republican and democratic leaders of the house and senate with the white house. and she said look, i need to be at that table part i need to be part of this discussion and i'm willing to be reasonable and give up some of my initial demands. but i need to be at that table. i think that is what she's trying to balance going forward as well so some of the things you reference, something like the funding for state and local governments that something a lot of republican and democratic leaders are out there and sink municipalities are squawking about right now she calculated in the last round of negotiations that it would become politically impossible for republicans to continue to deny that funding. and so, we do now see initially mitch mcconnell take up the position they were not going to bail out the states

because it was sort of the states problem flopping fiscally responsible enough to put billions and billers dollars aside for once in a century pandemic. and i think she realized in a think it happen, that became politically untenable for republicans because even now republican senators and members are saying that my state needs this, we can't just say no to this. >> host: to have a sense of her power was ever truly threatened by within the caucus? i guess probably the last time would've been 2017, right? tim ryan of ohio didn't actually run against her and we talked about it. >> he did in 2016 but not 2018. sue and lately younger people of talked about gibbous sense of people going back and forth between the minority and majority she was ever threat from inside the caucus?

>> guest: there's a fair amount of angst during her leadership of the years in the minority which are really thankless for the democratic caucus. a lot of house democrats were very frustrated that had the same leaders for 13, 15, 17 years. and these leaders are now in their upper 70s, early 80s on a lot of people felt it was time for a fresh face for reasons of perception mostly, i'm for reason of personal ambition. a lot of them felt they should have a turn to move up the ladder and because it was frozen in place with the top leadership that was not fair to a lot of members with great potential for leadership. and also because she'd been the subject of so many attacks, because the republicans it spent hundreds of millions of dollars i think at this point turning her into this bogeyman, that she become sort of politically toxic for

democrats and republican leading districts, who needed to keep their seats to get the majority. and so the feeling was if she were not there, to be the subject of those attacks it would be better politics. we didn't really hear was i think somebody else could do a better job managing the house. think some jails could do a better job shaping these complex pieces of legislation. that was never the appeal of somebody like a tim ryan who challenged her in 2016 or seth a moulton and who did not run against her, but tried to outstrip the speakership in 2018. it was never about what she sees as her job which is legislating. it was much more about external factors. he wanted to think of things go well for democrats in november and they keep the house is it conceivable they could keep the same leadership team going forward? and if biden wins they would

have other people of age in the white house status quo? again i guess this is a crystal ball thing, this is part of the last hurrah for this team? i have a firm policy against not making predictions. there something a reported bedroom think has previously been reported back in 2018 there is the leadership race where she worked very hard to diffuse, she could not afford to lose less than 10% of the caucus when it came to the speaker vote on the floor in order to be elected speaker again. she'd really have to win almost everyone and that unruly ideologically and demographically diverse caucus. and so one of the conditions that she finally accepted to

make the final deal to get those votes was she agreed to a term limit without force out of 2022 but basically it said she could serve no more than two more terms and the next one and according to the book she walked into her next meeting and said i wasn't giving anything away because i only plan to stay for one term anyway. who knows if that's true and if it's changed since then. but it does reveal at least at the time, this also by the way learned a lot about negotiating tactics from setting nancy pelosi this is whatever great tactics to pretend it's terribly painful to give something up actually are not giving up at all either didn't mind giving it up he didn't want it in the first place. his various points in the book you see here in these negotiating postures were she pretends she's giving up

something terribly painful and actually she's not. >> host: watching us master negotiator does that help you with the parent of three and kids? >> guest: yes i really think it has. i think a lot of these negotiating tactics came from her experience as a mother as someone who had five children and six years. and who by all accounts ran extremely disciplined household. there's a friends of nancy posey once said she knew she was destine for political success from having five young children all folding their own laundry. that is a major mom goal i'm not there yet. if you think about toddlers and politicians have a lot in common their narcissistic maniacs. but if you can make them feel like their ego is subdued you can get them to do what you

want. and so i do feel like some of these negotiating tactics that i have learned from watching nancy pelosi to come in handy when you're dealing with children. that's a big concession another when i like is the name your price we say to someone what do i have to do to get you to give me acts in the name of price they think is outlandish or impossible while sure we don't shoot up at the egg quilt on the national mall, but if you can find a way to lift up the quilt every 20 minutes of the grass can breathe and you can do it. she says okay fine and she gets the volunteers to all stand around the sides of the quilts and every 20 minutes they lift the quilts the grass can breathe in at that point the park service has no choice but to say you could satisfy this position but we did.

certainly her doing this in the 80s mitch mcconnell talked in some ways that covid outbreak during the polio outbreak when he was growing up 30 echoes between what were living through now just the uncertainty in being out of control this up having this new and scary disease that can be very fatal. just that is taking over everything? have not formulated this into a question. is it something you've ever heard her talk about?

>> i have not heard her make the comparison part have not heard everything she said in the past few weeks. but one of the parallels as the republican president at the time was very slow to his knowledge the extent of the crisis. that is something we have seen play out abundantly in the current situation and at the time it took years for president reagan to even say hiv or aids. a big part of working with advocates for the gay community, members who cared about the issue. she was not alone. one of the things she really had to do first, before she could get help for the victims of the crisis, was to raise awareness of the crisis and convince everybody on both ends of the political spectrum was a problem that had to be dealt with. that the federal government had to grapple with. one of the things she did early on, was to mail a

booklet to every constituent in her district of the surgeon general's information about aids. to bust a lot of myths about the disease know you can't get from hugging, toilet seat, whatever. and just to get that information out there and then the federal government ended up doing the same thing, shortly thereafter. going to hundreds of millions of households information packets of people understood the disease and they could proceed to respond to it. >> host: this is speculative and then i'll present the hypothetical of the highview of take a swing at it. in november, the democrats keep the house, nancy pelosi stays on a speaker, and donald trump is reelected. and let's say the senate goes

5050 so technically pens or whoever would have the deciding vote. do you see anything salvageable in the pants or pelosi trump relationship they could actually make that, those two most powerful figures in washington if that scenario arose? you think they could deal with each other? : : : molly: she is much more cold-blooded about these things. she doesn't let her personal feelings decide whether or not she is going to deal with someone on policy and she does

have a firm set of policy conditions. and the president does not. so, she spent a lot of time trying to negotiate on infrastructure. and donald trump talked about building roads and bridges, he sounded like a democrat. he wanted to build lots of stuff and spend lots of money. and she kept coming to the negotiating table until he walked away. he is doing slam down his hands on the table. he said i can't talk to you as long as this witchhunt is going on. she was willing to deal. and continue to negotiate even as impeachment investigations were underway. the presidents would not so as long as the president is going to, there is nothing she can do about that. she also as a matter of politics, is obsessed with

trying to show the american people the democrats are interested. so the houses passing passing all of these bills. hundreds of them they're sitting on mitch mcconnell's desk because she does want people to know that she was to send that message that they can trust the democrats to be put in charge of things and to be responsible. in this partisan gridlock not to run out of control to the left wing of the party. but can be sensible to actually get things done. this is part of why she continued to stay. i don't think she's lying. to do a bill on infrastructure. and prescription drugs. there are some areas of commonality at least in the rhetoric. but then the infantile negotia negotiations affairs and not ongoing. mark: i now get a picture of you, i don't see the live version of you. i don't know if i'm the only one who can't see you read but i can

hear you. host: hey molly, could you refresh your browser real quickly. it i am getting a couple of her little bit of feedback as well. sorry everybody. sorry to interrupt the conversation but we will have it back up and running pretty quickly. mark: there you are. so you mentioned impeachment. what is your sense of, hope nancy was a holdup for a while. certainly more progressive members of her carcass and wanted to move pretty early on in impeachment. what was it that brought her around. the fact that the ukraine case or was it something else. she feel like you have no choice given the carcass was. molly: i think she felt that it had its merits and also that the

carcass particularly, the vulnerable members of the carcass had moved to. she does not like the suggestion that she caved. or that she was following rather than leading the carcass. by doing take it is fair to say that she always thought it was a pointless endeavor. she lived through the clinton impeachment which he thought was a joke. that is where joy is used for it. she thought it was basically a political persecution on the part of republican party really for just class reasons. they did not see him as a legitimate president. and then she first became the speaker in 2007, she faced a constant drumbeat of calls from the left impeachment. with bush. and so, she had protesters roaming the halls of congress everyday. in an antiwar activist actually

ran against her. these past couple of years, that was another experience that informed her to say, i didn't given to them because i thought it would be pointless. i think she felt the same way. i think she still feels that same way. she looks at it and review mirror now and says we had to do it. the president forced us to do it because of his conduct. but what did it accomplish. you really don't see the point of this. no, it will not remove the president you know that it will achieve anything tangible. joy said you have to know your why in politics. in her why is the children, the children, the children. associate always is going to look at any political things and say well how does this feed a hungry child improve the lives of workers somewhere.

her human rights around the world. all impeachment in her view, is sort of a divisive show they did not actually accomplish anything. she would say this. i think she does feel that the one thing can accomplish, next to president trump name in the history books, there will be in asterix or he has been impeached and you can't do anything to change that. but other than that i think she does feel it was kind of pointless. mark: do you think she had regrets about this. molly: she is not personalized regrets. quite literally. i mastered so many times. and she just says i don't do that. i don't do regret. she does not do. mark: is there anything, she always have a certain personal, president bush was somebody who she would call a gentleman all

of the she still does. hence moments that she remembers and they seem to have had something, it was a least some kind of work there freed you think there's anything that donald trump that she is in use for. speech of now, i don't think so. again, don't speak for her and i don't want to over represent. but when i asked her a sort of a version of this question she was careful to say that she doesn't disrespect people who voted for him. she does not want to be caught in a sort of horrible moments. the metaphor she uses is the ever noticeably he was dating a jerk. and you can't tell that person their dating injured arkville just defriend you. you have to wait them out and try to subtly tell them what he is doing to them. she said i hope these people

will realize what the president is doing to them. but i don't blame them. mark: they read the book. as for officer the book. do you have a sense of they know it's in your book grade. molly: they've had the book. i do want to be perfectly clear that the speaker in her staff has no editorial rights or anything in my book. it is my character estate should. she was helpful in terms of giving me the interviews allowed me to interview a lot of people around her. but this is not authorized in the sense that she sign off on the contents.

mark: is you redundant authorized biography. molly: she is written a memoir. andrew on the book from some of that good material. the event the book for a while and they've been pretty busy for money understand. whether she has had a chance to flip through it. i will continue to report on her you know. and i interact with her step rated. mark: i don't mean to focus on something ascetic with the cover is great not that the lack of subtitle pretty is there's like this all subtitle industrial complex and political books where you have your title and then let's get the whole game away in the next like subtitle. but how did you decide, there are other graphics people to work with as well. what made you work with this and

call it fluency nothing else. in a graphic that you used. molly: first of all i have to give a shout out to my publisher. they came up with this cover design. i never would have accomplished something so big and stylish. i absolutely love the cover. i do so i kept catching . really captures are in the tone of the book. it captures a lot of what i have been talking about ways to sort of culture has caught up to park ran a femininity after many years. but also i think everyone knows who is about from the title. mark: absolutely. molly: some people needed subtitle to communicate why this title insignificant. if i were writing about a lesser-known figure, i would need a subtitle to start until you this is the man who you know, designated the atomic bomb and blow mars or whatever.

but everyone knows who she is. there's only one person you're talking about. and for all of his wonderful qualities. soy think i like the simplicity of it. i like the simplicity of the cover design rated but i also think it sort of speaks or itself in that she is a figure who is already plenty the mean of. people knew who she is and pick up the book. mark: you don't have to sell the subject rated so what did you decide have to sort of to have such an unintrusive voice in the book. because there a lot of people the profiles who have interviews of you and i do. you have a sense of what is

lifelike in the room with them. what is it like to talk with them. the author's voice writing come through and you can talk a little bit about your own experience. you really stand back. wonder how you decided to sort of right in the voice that you did and if you had to develop it over time as he resorted getting into the narrative. molly: i'm not sure, if it was even really a conscious decision. i do, as a writer i often do right in the first person. i think you can help bring the reader into a story like you said. in this case i just wanted to tell her story. almost didn't novelistic fashion. it wanted to feel like a work of storytelling more than a workup reporting. so, there's not a lot of direct quotes in the book . sort of contemporaneous. there's not a lot of people that

i have interviewed looking back and reflecting on things that happened because he sort of wanted to keep it in the moment. i wanted people to feel like they were experiencing this sort of as it happens. it is tricky. i've never written a biography or above before. and it's really interesting problem that all biographers sort of her wanting to be inside and outside of your subject at the same time. wanting to see things through their eyes but also wanting to have a little bit of objectivity and distance. and to be somewhat skeptical of the stories they tell which will do. people will judge whether or not i do that successfully but that was what i was trying to achieve. mark: i actually just in texas and would you like to move to q&a. soy moving to q&a when we get a chance. were going to this over to our

audience. you going to take questions. so is there like some way you can ask questions. i'm just now throwing myself at the mercy of technology in helping this at some point, interview future there will be questions appear before me. you will pass them in some way. host: so there is a test question q, if you click on that, the list comes up of the questions. mark: there we go. so i will pick which one you're. here's a good one. martina. molly, was the most surprising thing you learned about speaker pelosi. molly: artist at this point i think one of the things that really surprised me about her was her aggression briefly.

her assertiveness and boldness. she came up at a time when it was just really culturally acceptable for women to be strong and assertive and aggressive. but she is a real risk taker. she is a gambler in some ways. she is willing to put herself out there. she's always willing to get in people's faces. so moving up trump's speech, and chasing down a reporter who accused her of hating the presidents. don't mess with me. but this goes all the way back to the earliest days of her career. she is always sort of been willing to get into people's faces and stick up for herself. and i think it comes from her coming from her sense of feminism. joyce felt able to advocate for herself in this way. one of my favorite that's in the book is about her activism in

china read this is someone who in 19 in england, traveled to beijing, with her colleagues and on the last day on the trip, until the chinese authorities they were too tired to go on the tour of the great wall. they snuck out of the back of the hotel to taxi to the square and then one of the congress and that she was with fun fact, played in the dukes of hazard. he had smuggled this meant banner in his underwear from hong kong. they pulled it out and unfolded and sent for those who die for democracy in china. they were immediately attacked by the chinese. they chased them out of the square and actually detained some of the journalists who were covering this. you can still the video of this incident. she quite literally had bodily harm in order to stage this very

bold demonstration for what she believed in. and politically as well. back in 2003 middle of the top democrats including the democratic house leader at the time and including people like hillary clinton and john kerry. they thought it would be bad politics to post iraq war and she came out against it. she encouraged her police to be against it. and she went against the war resolution and against her own leadership because she believed so strongly that this was the wrong thing to do pretty and as the top democrat on the intelligence committee, she saw the case for more. she did not think that it was set for scrutiny. so she is known for her toughness. enter sort of boldness. and empower her torch yesterday.

the boldness to run for leadership when literally no woman had ever had a top leadership position in either house of congress. she still the only woman to either party in the house of congress. and she had to take on the male dominated establishment to do that pretty there were only 23 women in the house of representatives when she got there in 1987 out of 435 members. she said she wanted a leadership position, through the grapevine sort of minute power were saying was will who said she could run. and she'd always been someone who's say i don't need your position. i can do it. mark: here's a question from charisse. did pelosi have a frustration with obama and the obama cabinet relative to experience. molly: yes. that is a big theme of this sort of chapter the book about the

obama era. she and obama became very close. have a lot of mutual respect. so i don't want to make it seem like there's any grudge between them. but it the theme of congressional coverage. as democrats in the house and senate never felt like he was particularly great and negotiator when he came to dealing with the republicans freed the always felt like he gave up too much up front. he was willing to, he was so and made this promise of bipartisanship and defensive and healing the country and bringing people together as of the republicans realized right off the bat, you can't do this if we don't go along with that we can keep him from for the filling is promise. and hurt him politically. and i think she realized that a long time before he did. in step two thought that he

continued to go to great lengths to try to get republicans to do things with him. when she did not think they were negotiating. they didn't ever have any intentions of cooperating that's what she thought. so a lot of the frustrations can from that dynamic. mark: sent using my expert vote counting abilities myself, what about the most votes, they want me to ask. i've been very impressed with speaker pelosi's ability to bring together diverse actions of the democratic party even in the most challenging issues. what strategy did you identify and how she's able to do this. molly: that is a great question . and a lot of times i think about this. as always been her great strength. it stands in great contrast to the republican speaker to argue proceeded her. the house more or less fell apart well john and paul ryan

were in charge of the republican caucus as well. but they were unable to keep the carcass together. a lot of people said well is a diverse. you have this unreasonable freedom caucus people in your people from liberal districts. and more conservative districts in urban and rural districts. the democratic caucus is far more diverse than the republican carcass. i think of demographically and ideologically. yes, we and has been some white disagreements. between different factions of the caucus. he still tammy. host: your good. molly: from the time she became a democratic leader, choice but premium upon party discipline and change some of the rules of the house carcass to make it harder and more painful for

members to vote against the caucuses position the unit similar to her strategies. she doesn't work right expert plate. she's very good at letting people know that she's not about you, just disappointed. the feeling of disappointment is very huge. if you sort of crosser, you may live to regret it. so when it comes down to some of these negotiating, there are certain tips and tricks that you can point to. but what i ended up concluding in a larger sense is that it really is just an incredible understanding of human nature on her part. she has an incredible memory for details and for people. never forgets a face, his nose

not only who you are, which i can even tell all of the members of the house of representatives apart much less remember all of the names and where they come from. but she normally knows that, she knows your spouse, and your parents and your pets and what your priorities are pretty what issues you happen to be interested in. a caucuses you are a member of. with the makeup of your district is and what might be difficult for you to do politically. she has all of that in a file in her head. she just knows all her people. she has and maintains those relationships. she makes everybody feel that they have been listened to. aloe times, that is all it takes. she seems to have been assigned to just listen to people. she will kind of call them out. if you try to somebody into something, shall just keep them in the negotiating session until they just kind of give up and relent. because gls them.

mark: unrecognized that we now have four or 500 people on our list here. i want to thank everyone for coming before you get to the next question. also a separate page for this but since were on computers. you can buy this on kindle or something like that. if you're not committed to do that. you can do that on politics and pros either online or some kind of ordering thing. so anyway, thank you all for being here . in the next question is, it's sort of follows on what you were just talking about witches did you talk to nancy pelosi about what it was like growing up in a political family in baltimore. and the reason, i heard from an echo from what you are just answering, knowing the faces and names in writing thank you notes and so forth. as old school political weight.

i wonder whether she sort of talks about what her political background was like and how it was applied to running congress. molly: so her father was a congressman by the time she was 70 become the mayor of baltimore . this is all school democratic, urban politics where there's patronage and favored trading in all of the different demographics in the city and have the sort of political bosses controls the most right and kinda got it steak or to the person. and so it gently see a lot of the old school political style and the legislative tactics that she is a net the same time a lot of what i tried to do in the early chapters of this book is sort of refocusing attention on her mother. i think it is so natural to seek her political heritage and her father. but she has always taken pains to say that she's equally by the

influence of her mother and she talks very open the late which i think is interesting about how her mother felt stifled in her life. do not have her never able to achieve your dreams and goals because she was a woman. and about how her mother wanted to be an auctioneer and wanted to go to law school, wanted to market itself beauty products she had mentioned and patented and her husband were not give her his signature which women needed at the time in order to do things like that. so she was very shaped by but her mother was a sort of very strong and assertive italian lady also not afraid to get up and get in people's faces. there's a story that was she punched a coworker in the face who she was mad that. and she ran a lot of the political operations for her husband. she never met the credit, she was not on the ballot and she the one running the women's democratic out of her basement.

they call it the favorite file, out of the family parlor where they could take people's names and the man had to refer people for services that they needed to get into a housing project work into a hospital or a job or whatever. so her mother was a big part of that work. in the last thing i will say is that it is very ground level and grass roots if you are encouraging politician, you better know every block in every precinct. you can't run a campaign which is a bunch of expensive television ads. you gotta get out there on the pavement and do the work. so that is still the advice that she gives to candidates that she recruits to run for office. and still the way she thinks about electoral politics is my flintlock and precinct by precinct party down there at the ground level. her older brother who also

became the mayor of baltimore it was a great friend and mentor super called it human nature the wrong read i love that. mark: here's a couple more questions. you can text me and we should wrap it up. this question has a lot of support from the voters. this is from jessica. has nancy pelosi every been interested in running for president. and he think that makes her more powerful the house. molly: no and yes to those two questions. she has never, while there was a time when she was up-and-coming in politics when she was new age to the house where she would be in surveys long list of potential bison presidential candidates. she always said she was not

interested. she never dangled it anything that she might be interested in a higher office. every politician says is greatest part of the repertoire visibly ask you, interesting now, i'm not looking at that next rung. i want to work for the great people in this district and so on. but i think she has been saying that for long enough that is become believable. and it is a big part of her power. it's a very smart observation by jessica. because, remember snow that she isn't trying to make a name for herself. she is not sort of wealth or predecessors as leader of the everyone knew that he wanted to be president. and running in 2004. so everyone knew that as much is he was guarding their interest and running the carcass in the

house, he also had gone to the next thing. in the end personal ambition and steak and what was going on. in a sort of diverted his focus and she never had that. a member of her caucus thinks that she is just that had to resonate so that she could go to the next rung up on the letter. so give her a lot of credibility that she is focus on looking out for their interest. mark: so have been told this must be the last question. i'm just going to go with the majority rules there. so 13 people have voted for this question. hi molly, this is from jeff. what kind of access to get to the speaker. molly: she gave me a series of interviews. i have been covering her, prior to starting work on the biography. when the signal we became friends. she never invited me to her

house or introduce me to her family are the kind of thing. there is a formality to her. a sense of remove that she has. she has good relationships with the capital open score. but she's not sort of charming politician who has this reporter like this powerful and entertaining. i talked about this a little bit in the book. i do sort of break the fourth part in the afterward and talk about my personal feelings and reflections about the reporting process. i did never felt like i really got inside her head that way. i felt like i observed her very closely to understand the way she works and operates read but because she is someone who engages in public introspection,

i think she's a fundamentally private person and i was unable to fully penetrate that. mark: this is a great book. thank you all for being here. i know you're all working hard and i appreciate the great social distancing. but also, everyone, by the book. the national treasure. thank you for watching us. i guess to sign off now. host: you can go right ahead. i will say before we close tonight, then again we thank you all so much for being here. and molly, really lovely walk conversation both of you. personal favorite. and thank you so much. i do encourage the audience to

buy the book from politics and pros. your patronage is what allows us to stay up and running right now. so this book sales are really crucial. and also, we are offering the option tonight to come in. we are accepting and are really appreciating everyone who comes in. but definitely purchase this book from molly tonight. we have a lot of other great events coming up rated down the pipeline and i encourage you to click on the politics and prose button above. but until then i hope we see you again. stay well. stay well read. take care everybody. compile rated cement on the program by the hoover institution former national security advisor to president

trump, offered his thoughts on the coronavirus and debbie national security. as a portion of the conversation with the hoover institution director. you supposed to run virus china u.s. relationships look like. >> it looks a lot like in dense competition is ongoing with a chinese party prior to this crisis. mainly based on what is motivating the chinese communist party. primarily, the first and foremost it is the parties desire and effort to eight extend the exclusive power as well as to realize the stream of national rejuvenation. competition i think is intensifying, for five different ways prefers, we can all see in the recent days, the information that the chinese communist party

is waging against the united states. the narrative that the united states is a pretty open democratic system. and china has in part, the responsibility or how rapidly and how widely of this pandemic spread. and that information campaigns, intensified certainly. but also, becoming more aggressive militarily. we see the south china sea over the past couple of days, have these minimus municipalities, this big land graph the south china sea intimidating malaysian navy and so forth. and a lot of violations in the airspace, but what you are saying, i think as a result of this kind of behavior is a backlash internal national. and i think is a positive trend. this is germany tried to charge

china. you see backlash against the china in terms of americans in recent poll have a negative view of certainly the chinese communist party. so i guess the question that we had a truck now is how does this competition play out and what is the internal dynamics so associated with this. it china has acted in an egregious manner. of course harassment of the doctors who tried to warn about this. and then in the recent days are arresting people who advocate for the chinese people having to say how the government in hong kong and on the mainland. and so i think what you are saying is really china is racing to put into place. global that have lucrative effect. it is becoming more critical

party infertility the way that they have handled this crisis. and this is going to happen the backdrop of the slow economy. china not being able to be able to make good and the promises that is me to his own people. and under this program of national rejuvenation. and as the economy drags there will be a tendency to double down on the practices that actually exasperates the weakness and vulnerabilities that economy especially doubling down on the enterprises. and what does this mean. i think that we are in a competition. in the united states, free and open society will do everything we can to protect ourselves against the efforts of the chinese communist party. this vote of free market economic systems. and do everything we can to strengthen our systems and to strengthen the global economy

that is not connected or dependent on that party. so think the assessments of the mobility's we have seen will continue i think you're going to continue to see this decoupling out of china. the chinese government is not a trusted partner. good place to do business. and we can no longer have some of our critical supply change will evolve to the destruction of the - >> visitor website booktv.org and search hr mcmaster. here's a look at some publishing industry news rated last week simon and schuster, died at the age of 71. she began her publishing career at random house and 1974 and to the assignment in schuster where she of the for the past 12

years. her group is now's a plan to assist independent bookstores in the wake of that covid-19 and debbie hard the publisher, one of the biggest in the world, will provide greater discounts. extended dates on invoice payments and assist with freight cost on return books resource than working to reopen. the new york times reports of the many forthcoming books about the coronavirus pandemic. harper publisher jonathan says the difficulty for publishers as we know there will be a lot. only a few of them will work. also in the news, reporting book sales up nearly 10 percent for the week ending may night pretty and by a surge in young adult nonfiction sales. and they were on par but are still down almost 9 percent for the year. in many book festivals and conferences that were forced to cancel continue to offer virtual experiences. most americans part of the book industry book expo will offer a series of online events next

week rated all of the will be hosted on book expo facebook page and will be free to the public. next month the bronx book festival will take place online on june 6th . in their market library association annual conference goes virtual from june 24th - 26. book tv, will continue to review new programs and publishing news. he also watch over archive programs anytime, apple tv .org. host: hi everybody and welcome to this live broadcast. i'm sorry that we had a little delay rated one of our speakers is have trouble with his computer so we are doing a little improv and working on it. so we will just have him on audio. we'll see how that goes. you can hear well enough if we do at this point let us know in the chat box if