and i hope everyone has a great rest of their friday afternoon. >> having lived to a loss of confidence in our institutions come away the sins of that is left us trust what we're told by anyone who calls himself an expert, it becomes very difficult for us to rise to challenge like this. our first reaction is to say no, they're like to us, they're only in for themselves and a lot of our national institutions got to take on the challenge of persuading people again that they exist for us come to hear for the country. >> sunday june 7 on "in depth" a live conversation with you golovin. -- yuval levin. join the conversation. watch "in depth" with yuval levin on booktv on c-span2.

>> good evening, everyone. my name is gilbert. i'm from vroman's bookstore and i would just like to thank everyone for joining us tonight. for our virtual event eric nusbaum in conversation with janice, presenting his book "stealing home: los angeles, the dodgers, and the lives caught in between." we are very excited and grateful our bookstore can continue to bring authors in the works to our community during this uncertain time. we'll be posting more virtual events in the future and you can learn about them on a website as will our social media our next event is this coming tuesday april 28 at 5 p.m. leeann dolman in conversation with susan brooks who will be presenting her book, the sweeney sisters. for updates on upcoming events feel free to subscribe to our newsletter. you can do that by going to vroman's bookstore.com.

decedents virtual event will in with the q&a so if you like to submit a question, please use the ask a question button at the bottom of the screen right over there. if you question on the list you like or -- asked and our authors to answer, you can click the like button on the question i will try to answer many questions as time will allow. also if you interest in supporting our bookstore by purchase a copy of the knights book you can click on the purchase button that says purchase, directly below the viewer screen. the link will be sent to our website where you can continue your checkout process. we're selling e-books also. with that let introduce you to interview and author, janice llamoca is an award-winning journalist and producer at npr mckinney usa. she began her career as an

entertainment digital and over the past five years janice has shifted her focus to audio sharing nares about communities of color. during her time shows dunst was about history, language access and culture and humanize her stories with compelling voices. her work is featured in the near times, npr's code switch, and more. our author tonight is eric nusbaum, he is a former sport editor advice and his work on sports, history and culture has appeared in espn magazine, sports illustrated, outside, the "daily beast", that spent in the best american sports writing anthology. eric was born and raised in l.a. he has spent many hours of attending games at dodger stadium in city traffic to each of those games as many of us have. they are here tonight to present eric spoke "stealing home" so i would like to turn over to them,

and before we get to the q&a section that come to let -- please enjoy this. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> hey, janice. how is it going? [inaudible] >> you are muted. >> hold on. >> now i can hear you. >> -- talk about -- just want to say congratulations on the book. i can't imagine how it feels -- >> it's a really good feeling. i member when the first knock came to the door and just opening up and sing like the actual book in hardcover. it was surreal.

[inaudible] >> i know there are some quick intros about you but but i reay want to hear more about your career and life and how it all came together are you to write this book. >> sure. i knew this book was in my head before even had a career. i was high school student and a man named frank who's one of the central characters in the book spoke to my u.s. history class at clover high school and he told the story of his life, and he was housing official with the city of los angeles who was kind of dramatically blacklisted in 1952 for his secret membership in the communist party. the reason that he was outed as a common is this because he trying to develop a public housing project in the land where dodger stadium now sits.

his story began with the straits dodger stadium should not exist. i was a kid who loved baseball and that was shocking to me and it -- that story, and as a group and became a journalist and a writer, i never really let it go and i think on some level i wanted to add my contribution to the story of dodger stadium and the communities that preceded it that whole time. >> when you heard that phrase, dodger stadium should not exist, i mean, that's one thing to know but people may not realize the history behind -- [inaudible] >> he gave us a very brief run done. you read the book, you will see that he was very true believer in public housing. his belief was at dodger stadium should not exist because dodger stadium should be the site of

something called -- is very grand public housing project. he didn't get into the community too much, and as i learn more about them, i came to have much deeper understanding of kind of the real tragedy in the story, which is that families lost their homes and ultimately saw their land sold by the government to a private businessman. there's a lot of drama in how that happened but kind of that's how it happened. >> we had a a conversation earr and we talked about how this is your first book and really exciting topic. -- [inaudible] i guess the decision to not just make it into an article to make

into book, what was the decision for you? >> part of it was i don't think i could have fit everything into an article. i really wanted to tell the story as completely as i could, you know, within reason and within a single volume. .. >> if you go beyond that then it starts to get confusing and doesn't do the subjects justice. i knew the subject of this book really needed kind of a-- they needed a longer telling on the page, but also needed more time and more research to be

told right and as a journalist you only have so much time to get to your next story and deadline and i doesn't have done enough work as a reporter and a researcher to turn this into a magazine story. >> and going from there and -- in the book, there's a lot of history, whether it's history about baseball in los angeles, mexico, and also talk a lot about the historical tension between the u.s. and mexico and you talk about people and give them chapters. one of the people that are involved in the bigger story, but you specifically kind of focus in-- frank wilkinson. how did you focus in on their stories? >> you know, when i first

started, i didn't have quite that specific a focus. i had a broader kind of idea and envision for the book probably, but you know, on one level as a story teller, you have the best way to tell a story is through people's lives, through individuals, and something about those two lives in particular really stuck out to me. and was just a remarkable person who lived their life at, you know, in many ways was pretty normal, a mother and grandmother and worked hard and took care of her family. she was an immigrant. but she also ends up kind of rubbing up against these big historical forces that kind of swings her life around and there's something about her, this kind of resoluteness that caused her to resist those forces in a way that other people didn't and not, you know, because they couldn't or didn't want to or whatever it

was, there was something different about her personality that drew me in and when you hear about the story of the stadium, and you often see the images of the family getting evicted from their house and i was curious what was it about this family and their journally that led them to be violently evicted by the sheriff's deputies and didn't happen to their neighbors and frank. frank was the inspiration for this book in many ways, he's the person who put the story in my head. he was also just a fascinating character. he lived a life that felt like something out of a movie. you know, he was bit by a coyote as a child and went from being a conservative methodist in beverly hills to being a communist. and he had acts to his career.

he goes to jail, the federal prison to protest the house and americans activity committee and frank just, he -- he was a handful and also, he was somebody whose kind of many a -- ambition and career were similar, and thrown into chaos by forces beyond his control and i was curious about that. >> in the book going through it, and devouring it, and they were almost parallel in a way, not exactly, but from arizona to california, but still -- you take their lives one year and another person in another year and actually clash until that

moment -- what did you see it come together during your research? >> i knew early on that the book was going to kind of center on this sort of inflection point where their lives meet and that was going to be in 1949-50 when the housing authority is evicting people from where she lived to the park heights. i knew that was going to be the place where they met and i knew their lives were going to kind of go in different directions after that. so a lot of the work of the book was, first of all, kind of getting their timelines down. seeing where they were and what they were doing and what to focus on and balancing how to tell the stories in a way that you cared enough to stick with both of them with the understanding that they would eventually have the sort of tragic meeting, i guess.

>> and i think it's, you know, kind of history and having seen -- what we've seen in the l.a. times, chapters of the book, but i haven't seen the story really pop to life the way you do so a lot of research with a lot of family members kind of fills that portrait. the people and reaching out to them and-- >> i mean, it was not so difficult in that it was impossible. you know, some members of her family wanted to speak about her and some people who lived in the community want today speak about her and some didn't. i don't think i didn't reach out to every single person. i know i didn't because there's some and it's a testament to her that she was a memorable person who kind of left an impression on those who knew

her, including her grandchildren, some of whom were gracious enough to speak with me. you know, my background is more as a reporter than it is as a historian. so doing that stuff is probably more natural than going to an archive for me. still, i'm an outside. she and her family were really mistreated by reporters in the 50's when this was all happening so i think if there was distrust, he think it was pretty justified. >> and when you -- with the family members and members of the community, did you sense that that kind of came back they're telling the story or even if they didn't specifically in that era, kind of -- throughout their generation? >> yeah, i think so. i think people who have a more

forgive and forget attitude. there's still pain. i think if you lose your home or your family loses its home, it's painful. for some people, it's really, really viceral and decades later they're still really hurt over it. there was not a lot of amends made by anybody for what happened in these communities and the experience of being sort of of mistreated by government and by business and then sort of having to get on with your life, you know, without the community that you built and that you love is really -- it's a heavy experience. i've never experienced it myself so i can't speak to the specificity of their pain, but there's people, you know, when you go through something like that, it doesn't just go away. >> and also, you spoke with

grandchildren, also her great-grandchildren, i assume. >> yes. >> and generation to generation how impactful it was in their lives. >> there's great-grandchildren out doing activism at a group buried under the blue, that does kind of renter and displacement activism and they, i mean, they feel it. you know, the inherited trauma, i think is the phrase that i heard. it's not-- you know, these kinds of events whether it's dodger stadium or a housing project or anything else, they have lingering effects on communities. >> something while doing the research for this book you thought you knew, but then, no, i had no idea, that that was a complete revelation to you? >> i was struck repeatedly by

how, i feel like i kind of criticized the media earlier and i'm a member of the media, but i was struck by how sort of transparently one-sided and kind of propagandaist the l.a. times was in the 1950's and other newspapers. and the family was notorious for using the paper as a kind of political cudgel, but like reading the actual articles and seeing how sensationalist and blatantly untrue a lot of the stuff they published was, really just to advance the political agenda of the owners was that something that left an impression for sure. >> the and it's definitely, the media-- >> i grew up with the l.a. times and i love the paper. i think that the l.a. times definitely right now is amazing, but reading about the l.a. times of the 50's was-- and reading for articles was

mind-blowing. >> any experience you had while writing of this book? >> an interesting experience. one thing about this book that i really loved was getting a chance to just speak with people about their lives and getting the trust of somebody to tell their story. i think that's the thing and it's hard to overstate the responsibility i feel when somebody sits down with me. so, my favorite memories from writing the book are probably, you know, sitting in somebody's dining room or kitchen with them and just hearing them tell their stories. you know, a few of the people i've interviewed have passed away since i started writing the book and that's heavy as well. you know? a guy named xhcamillo in the bok a and-- it's sad they didn't see the book, but i'm grateful for

their time and that i could write their story. >> in the book, usually there are images, right, that are kind of historical images in the book and i realize that you have illustrations. do you want to talk a little about that? >> yes, the illustrations a by a guy named adam, a friend of mine and they're incredible. i feel i should take the book down, but i'm going to show you. >> illustrations-- >> i thought about doing photos in the book, but one thing about getting photos in a book and that you have to get the rights to put them. since some of those photos were trickier than others and you also have to pay for those as an author out of pocket. i thought if i'm paying for photos to use in the book, i really wanted something that was going to be special and different and sort of give an impression and maybe kind of create more emotional resonance for the reader.

so, i asked adam if he would kind of, you know, draw the book for me a little bit and he did. and it came out great. he's really excited about that. i think seeing the pictures and also my kids like the pictures in the book and it makes it feel accessible to them. >> and i think a kind of-- really kind of let me know and you talk about this in the beginning how everything came togeth together. there's one thing that stuck out to me a lot, really quick, that stadium -- as a dodger fan they'd eventually know how has that experience, how has the experience beginning to end with making the book, helped that struggle? has it changed anything for you? >> yeah, i think it's helped. i think it becomes, now, that struggle is sort of like the

question of the book, right? and i kind of came to believe that it's good to struggle with that kind of question, that, you know, i love the dodgers and not as much as like i care so much about like what trades they make, although i do. but as an institution and a part of my life and i love the city of l.a. and i wanted to explore that a little bit and i think that if you love something, it's okay to be critical of it and it's okay-- not even okay, it's good to do that. good to say, you know what? i love this, but it's not right. you can do that with your religion, with your family, or the city you live in. i love l.a., but they have a lot of problems, if you're a fan of a team or an institution like the dodgers, it's okay to say this is wrong and this wasn't right. and you know, with this book, it's really much more about the city of l.a. and the county and

kind of the region and the u.s. history than it is about a baseball team, but i think that question of whether you can love a place and have problems with it at the same time kind of expanded from just being dodgers stadium to being, you know, i guess los angeles. >> yeah-- something we have to do, right? and i feel like you write about los angeles in a very beautiful way, but also, you -- happened with the city government, that were affected by this. >> thank you. >> and up to the present. what can dodgers do, in your opinion, as a journalist, what could they do for what happened? >> so what i would say is that this-- the dodgers are not like the guilty party in in book.

this is not a book criticizing the dodgers, like -- it's critical of the dodgers a bit, but really, it's kind of like a failure of government more than anything else. and i think the dodgers and the city of l.a. and the county government and state government, federal government, i think there should be an acknowledgment of what happened and that it was wrong. that's-- that would be a very basic first step. but i'm not a member of those communities. i'm not somebody who was evicted from eminent domain to build a public housing project only to see my house become a baseball stadium. so it's not for me to say what they should do, but i think just saying something would be a really good start. >> and i think that like-- i know that there's a small attempt at this, but anything official. >> i think 20 years ago, when

the dodgers were owned by fox, this he had a small ceremony at a church in the canyon and extended a literal olive branch to some community members, but it was very much like a one-time deal and you know, now the dodgers don't really talk about this. it's not really on the agenda for the team for whatever reason. >> and in the making of this book, i asked you that you had -- were you able to write about places no longer there? >> yeah, it's interesting because you know, you go up to the legion park or the hills around dodger stadium and some of the roads are there and the streets are still there. they're not the same. the construction of dodger stadium changed the landscape geographically what the area was going to look like. so i went to-- there's something called a-- and people who visit the

communities in july and go and have a picnic and you talk to the elders this, where was so-and-so. the truth is they can give you generally where things were, but the hills are not the same. the dodgers moved, like hundreds and thousands of tons of dirt to rebuild the stadium. there's new access roads and freeway entrances and it's just a very-- it's a different looking place and a different feeling place than it was then. >> and the residents who were family members of the residents in place did you notice if they stayed around the area in los angeles or had they-- >> you know, stayed in l.a., right, a lot of people moved to lincoln heights or boyle heights or nearby areas. i think some people in the canyon and really-- other parts of l.a., long beach, you know.

it wasn't like they were like banished from the country, but they kind of got absorbed back into the city where everybody else was and it wasn't the same. you know, i think everybody would say that, oh, yeah, we went back to whatever neighborhood it was and we didn't know our neighbors and we didn't have the same sense of community that we had before and i think losing that sense of community and that sense of pride was one of the big losses in addition to just the, you know, physical loss of the homes. >> and the loss of community, and like starting over, like the children starting over-- something that was lost in the history and the kind of-- going back home was not --. >> yeah, i mean, the community was mostly evicted, right, and like kind of by 52 and then 53 the housing project was

scrapped and empty, except for a few families that stayed. and the high schoolers came out and hung out at their old neighborhood. can you imagine doing that? it's a strange feeling, but that's what it was like. >> to kind of wrap this up, i want to know what you want -- with this book, what do you want to understand? >> i hope they are entertained and enjoy the book, first of all, and that they come away with some slightly maybe deeper understanding of, you know, this story in l.a.'s history and sort of like a sense of h how-- how people and the institutions around us interact and how power works in cities and that was sort of the revelation for me when i was writing it for

sure. how it can really become deeply intimate very quickly. >> and then you talked about how the book, the story specifically more than 50 years ago is still very present and happening in almost every community all over this country that's going on. >> yeah, absolutely. it's going on in l.a. right now. it's different, but as you look at englewood, position, there are still communities being affected by the construction of sports stadiums. there's still gentrificatiogent it's not a totally old story. >> hello, welcome back. >> i was here the whole time, don't worry. [laughter]. so, we're going to transition into our q & a section with i i'll ask some of the questions and then janice, feel free to ask any follow-ups that you see

might be interesting. you were just talking about the continued effects of things like in englewood and areas affected by these kind of construction things, and one of the top voted questions that we have here is do you see similarities, this is from rolando cruz, and he's asked do you see similarities with gentrification in los angeles now and the displacement of folks in chavez ravine then? >> yeah, i don't think it's the same. that was a specific set of circumstances to led to that particular displacement, but fink if you look at the underlying dynamics where you have powerful people deciding what should happen to the land of less powerful people and you know, wealthy people deciding what should happen to the land of poor people, that's what's happening in englewood.

it depends how you look at it. but my answer is yes. >> and patrick commented on that particular question, do you know if frank wilkinson ever quote, unquote, ever did anything about his fbi file? . so he actually sued to get his-- so frank wilkinson and i didn't say this, he was tailed by the fbi for decades and his fbi-- i mean, it's not 100%, i can't prove-- my understanding is his fbi tail kind of leaked the communist party membership to the l.a. county-- that wanted his career ruined. and he sued the fbi in the 1980's for his file. that's when he found out he'd been tailed for decades. he didn't know until he was an older man that he had a fbi

agent on him for his entire life. >> something to find out that's pretty tough. the next highest vote question is from cheryl franco. she asked since the book has been released have you heard anything from the dodger organization about it? >> no, nothing, nothing at all. it's also, i mean, there's no baseball right now, too. so who knows. the dodgers might be too distracted to comment on the book, but no. i mean, i haven't heard anything from the dodgers. >> okay. >> in this like-- one of the owners could pop on. >> so a couple here i think you have answered during the course of it, talking about, you know, the emotions of the people that

you interviewed and you talked about that and definitely still feeling the echoes of what had happened as a family over the generations. generations. but when the dodgers came to los angeles, and immediately became the spanish voice of the doermgs dodgers. was this seen in the years-- did the chavez ravine overshadow the presence or was that -- >> that cut off after the presence and picked up again with join the team. >> oh. that was just a-- did the battle overshadow the presence and were there hispanic fans before fernando

valle vallensela joined the team? >> i think every mexican american on the team-- it was to be an inclusive franchise and o'malley wanted it to be a stadium for everybody and affordable, which it was. he wanted it to be a place women felt comfortable coming to the games and that wasn't always the case at major league parks. and he wanted to reach diverse audiences. so, he fraught in the first-- starting in 59 to broadcast games in spanish and i think that people listened. i don't know how many. i don't have the ratings, but hadine has been employed sense by the dodgers, still calling games and to the fernando

question, i think that there's always the theory that like everybody, you know in east l.a. hated the dodgers until fernando vallensuela game. i can't imagine there were no hispanic dodger fans until 1981. i think that in the communities-- and almost everybody, fernando was a phenomenon truly, he was universal and his appeal went beyond any one group. >> and also wrote in the book about the-- didn't know much about the history of baseball or how it was kind of growing in mexico and he had a high point and th then-- but that was interesting and

how someone who was in mexico would still be a baseball fan and maybe find it in los angeles. >> yeah. yeah, especially in northern mexico. and it was extremely popular and popular throughout mexico, too. and nor for the american pastime, it has history in cuba, mexico, dominican republic. the only professional baseball being played right now is in taiwan and korea, you know. . >> and to already talk about, did you-- i'm sorry, did you interview anyone from the o'malley family for comments or information on this book. >> i actually was really fortunate that the o'malleys

allowed me access to the papers and his files from when he was moving to l.a., and kind of planning the stadium. peter o'malley granted me that and it was such a huge help in writing the book. i'm thankful to them for that because i wasn't really aware of what a kind of visionary the o'malley was, how he conceived baseball as a spectator support. like baseball stadium have entertainment things in them and dodger stadium might seem old in that context, but he was the first person to really like see baseball as like this family friendly kind of experience. he like consulted with walt disney how to build a, you know, an ideal fan experience at dodger stadium and that's the kind of level he was thinking on when it came to constructing this place and getting to dive into his, like, notes and index cards where he

wrote down ideas was just, it was great. it was helpful in assemblying the last part of the book and as a baseball fan and dodger stadium, kind of a thrill to see where it came from. >> that's pretty amazing. now, we only have time for a few more questions. and i guess, do you see any evidence from mike shaun, do you see any linkages of destruction of chavez ravine and bunker hill? >> sure. i mean, the historical ones. i'm going to get kind of nerdy. there are projects, sort of like, the some say they're both part of the same kind of general project with l.a., kind of creating a centralized downtown that was more corporate friendly and less worried about people, right.

like-- and bunker hill was a neighborhood in downtown that got razed for buildings like the pavilion and stuff like that. so, i guess there's an l.a. audience, i'd have to say that. the -- so it was the same forces at play that caused those things. and even if you think about public housing, one of the reasons that he and his allies wanted public housing in those communities because they were going to need to find something to do with the people who lived in bunker hill. that was actually will part of the conversation. he so, the kind of questions of housing and corporate development and where, you know, poor people get to live in l.a. at this time were really up in the air and whether or not you were a, you know, quote, unquote, progressive or you were a quote, unquote, conservative, you know, business leader who

wanted private development, you were probably talking about displacing people and rebuilding the city physically to your own vision for what it should be. and a dodger stadium, that's what happened and with bunker hill, that's what happened. and had it been on a certain bevel. that's what would have happened. >> tommy stanton asked, you illustrate the links between transcendentalism and does it have philosophical roots-- i don't know if it has actual philosophical roots. you have to ask phil james and ask what he was reading when he came up with some stuff. but i will say though that plenty of ancient mystical groups found meaning in numbers

a and, you know, people people are kind of doing that. >> numerology in a different way. >> right. two more questions. let's see if i-- amy warner said as a culver city teacher i'm proud you're a graduate, and what elementary did you attend and did you start learning spanish at marino. >> i learned spanish when the immersion program was there and then marino-- answered both questions. >> thank you for being here. >> cool. >> that is cool. >> let's see one last question, this is a pretty hard-hitting one.

so we'll pick one to end on. after the dodger dog, what is your favorite all time contestant item at dodger stadium. >> my favorite, this is not like a good answer. i have two. one is the chocolate malt, the malt is the best thing at dodger stadium. when they have them they come in and out of style with the ownership and i'm a sucker for the carl's, jr. at dodger stadium which isn't there anymore, and getting there and eating the carl's, jr. and one year they had king taco, and that was great, too. >> and i hope that answers your question. i think that's all the time we have for the q & a part. and turn it back over to you if you have any final thoughts or final questions you might want to ask. >> yeah, actually i do have one question.

you talk a lot about -- can you tell us how you came to, i guess, [inaudible] >> there were three communities we now call chavez ravine. i chose this because that's where she live and she and her family were the main part of the book and it was the biggest community of the three. kind of the most developed. it looked the most like a normal l.a. neighborhood, probably. but there were all three, you know, unique places and vibrant places. there's a famous book that came out and the book is called chavez ravine, but the photos are almost all of la loma. if you want a look at what la

loma looks like, that would be it. and the cover of the book is also from la momenta, so, you know, there were three communities. i hope somebody else writes a la loma book or a bishop book, maybe i will, i don't know. >> [inaudible] >> yeah, you can see video of the family getting evicted, unfortunate unfortunately. >> well, that's fantastic. i just want to thank you so, so very much for doing this and for being a part of our first virtual event. it was fantastic. >> thank you for having us. this has been great. >> [inaudible]

>> i appreciate that. thanks for reading and for chatting. thanks everybody, who came to watch, too. >> yes, definitely. thank you for everyone that's attended. we did have eric, just so you know, there were a couple of votes for a question about you reading excerpts from it, but i thought it was a little late in the game to do that. [laughter] >> next time. >> so, that's the presentation for "stealing home", by eric nusbaum. thank you to everybody. we appreciate your support, your time and if you are interested in purchasing the book make sure you click on the purchase "stealing home" button there and that will take you to the website to purchase it and get it sent over and bunch of different things to order things, get donations and cards for -- and regular updates on

our events, you can makes sure to follow us here and you'll know for the future virtual events that will be happening. so, it will also be available to watch afterward by following us, find it there and if you have any parts that you want to relive. so, again, thank you guys so much and on behalf of vroman's bookstore, have a wonderful evening and we appreciate it. ♪ >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and policy events from the presidential primaries, during the impeachment process and now the federal response to the coronavirus. you can watch c-span's programming on television, on-line, or listen on our free radio app and be part of the national crs