motivating michigan voters in the presidential race including the coronavirus in the states economic downturn. he also talks about president trump message on trade. >> spangler's washington correspondent of the free press. and as we speak to you in mid june give us a sense of the political landscape right now to make the political landscape in michigan is not very promising for president trump in his reelection efforts in michigan. right now it looks like what he was able to do in 2016 michigan is looking like it's the furthest out of reach. it has looked that way all along, but it's far more in the polling now. but we're kind of getting the most recent polls we have seen from our poster shows a 12-point lead for biden. that's coming in the wake of the

pandemic and really there is a hotspot in michigan for a while. a lot of partisan feelings. but also the military going to come into deal with civilian protests, some of the tweets and what president trump has done, fighting with governor witmer who is pretty well-liked in michigan. and so, at this.things look pretty bad for him. that doesn't mean he couldn't make it back up. by comparing michigan with wisconsin in pennsylvania, which two states he won closely in 2016, michigan is looking better for biden than it is for the president. >> let's go back to 2016. those erased many people thought michigan was the blue wall for clinton. donald trump winning up by 11000 votes. why did he win michigan and what was the lesson for democrats this year?

>> so, all the work that i have done post 2016 looking and a lot, the things that really jump out at me i that for soft neither hillary clinton or president trump were well-liked. michigan was seen as a state as democrats have won routinely since 1988, post- 1988 and hillary clinton did not spend a lot of time there. she was not particularly well lights. and people didn't show up. on election day going into the election our poll showed up a bit. it was close to the margin of error but then election day you had something like 75000 people show up at the polls who did not vote for any presidential candidate. and when you are looking at a margin in michigan has two tenths of 1%, 10,000 700 votes

that 75000 that didn't vote for president even went to the polls was more than enough to throw it for trump who had more enthusiasm particularly in rule areas then clinton did. that's really what made the difference. >> and so at the midpoint of this year we have had the impeachment of president trump. we have had the global pandemic. we've had the economic fallout and now we have the black lives matter and really all of the aftermath of the george floyd and what it has meant to communities. how is that plane into your state, michigan? >> it seems to be playing in dramatic fashion. michigan was really the place with these protests about gubernatorial action and stay-at-home orders really blew

up involving governor witmer who has been mentioned as a possible vice presidential pick for biden. which, she has not knocked down. she has she wants to be the governor of michigan and she likes her job, but she has not said she's not interested. and the protest movement in michigan which has been largely pro- trump has really taken off. and trump has spent some of those flames as well. that seems to have accrued to the democrats the benefit largely because our polls and other polls are showing governors actions are seen as being correct in helping the situation. you have also had regarding the death of george floyd, in the regarding the black lives matter movement. you have seen a lot, you have seen a great deal of protest

particularly in detroit but also some others in places where you would not normally expect to see quite as many people. it has been very -- over the last couple of months and that is really being felt in michigan. so far that is accruing politically the democrats benefit. in michigan being a state that typically is blue or in federal elections, statewide elections i say wisconsin or pennsylvania, it seems to be reverting back. we won't know till november and then there's plenty of time for the president to go back to michigan and to make some changes and maybe bring that town. but right now it seems like it is tough to make you mention the 12-point lead by joe biden we saw the poll commented that number surprise you?

>> yes. any kind of 12-point lead at this.would shock me. the same poll in january headed about six points in michigan. of course, biden was in a really not good position january and he has since nailed down the nomination. one michigan in much the same day we had our first coronavirus case that the primary and he won pretty candidly over bernie sanders. it was a big number and do i think it's going to be 12 on election day? i would be shocked if it's 12 on election day. but, 12 given what are we are seeing other polls nationally , given that polls are showing biden up in -- and in north carolina and florida. states like ohio, states that are far more republican leaning that michigan. >> frankly you cover trade issues for the detroit free

press, who has the upper topic? >> that is going to remain to be seen. because president trump has made such an issue of trade in the last election and with nafta the rewrite of nafta means a lot in michigan for autoworkers and particularly, they rightly or wrongly feel that nafta sent a ton of jobs to mexico and they never got them back and that's what really cost the industry jobs for years which is evidence on both sides of that. biden, even though he has supported trade deals and certainly supported trade deals as vice president under barack obama had a particular kind of rapport with working-class voters who don't see him as quite a globalist as maybe some

other democrats. his pennsylvania roots is certainly a working-class field to him. but it's more in line to take that fight to chomp in a way different than secretary clinton. but you raise a good. i would expect president trump to smash biden over the head with trade into it repeatedly and that would accrue to his benefit if the other stuff that clearly doesn't accrue to his benefit which is this week, the attacks and stepping a little too far that's really the balance. the president might have a winning argument with biden on trade in a state like michigan all things being equal.

but all things are not equal. the president is largely seen as the divider. his job approval numbers in michigan and elsewhere are not good. women do not like the president. at this.he is running at a deficit with women. i think it was this latest poll was something like 60% of women are leaning biden at this moment. it goes up to independent women help decide the selections. that number is in the 70. trade is an incredibly important issue in a state like michigan and will be in this election. but, there are other things dragging the president down that are frankly fully within his ability to change but i don't see him changing. >> so, let's talk about the political demographics in

michigan. if the peninsula area and grand rapids tend to lean republican, certainly lansing into troy at strong democratic areas where the swing areas of the twin states? >> the swing areas would move around from place to place. like in north michigan which you are right is largely republican you have kent county which is where grand rapids is switch went for governor witmer in the 2018 election. and a lot of people, myself included are watching to see what happens in that area because of that area starts to move a bit toward biden then that is bad news for president trump. the same thing goes along sort of the i 75 corridor that runs from the ohio borders north through all the way through michigan. and an old industrial areas that trump turned out in droves in

2016, particularly further. he is not going to lose those areas. on not saying that. but when you are getting around to -- county and around macomb county, that sort of area which are blue-collar sort of this older industrial air to somewhat conservative. but, are more than willing to go to democrat because they have done it many times in the past. those are areas you are gonna watch very carefully to see who is moving this way or that way. and finally, how organized are the unions in michigan? >> well the unions are extremely organized the question is whether or not unions there's no question that some big asked me the teachers union will they be there and be there for biden and he's going to clean up with that. there is reason to believe while

uaw leadership clearly was in clinton's camp four years ago and now with biden this time that whether the membership, whether the rank-and-file supports him in as large of numbers is sort of what remains to be seen. now, years ago we had reason to believe that president trump did pretty well with uaw rank-and-file against hillary clinton. there is reason to believe that joe biden can do better among them than she did for various demographic reasons and the kind of candidate he is seen as being. you will have to trample to have to deliver that in trump is without question going to have to go after. >> our look at battleground state michigan and washington court phone for the detroit free press. todd spangler, thanks for joining us on c-span.

>> thank you. >> next, fcc commissioner, michael o'reilly joins us on the communicators to talk about the impact of the coronavirus and president trump the executive order on social media. after that, the house hearing on how the virus has affected education budgets and challenges set for the upcoming academic year. no ... c-span, created by america's cable television companies as a public service and brought to you today by your television