scott. but the chamber failed to get the needed 60 votes to officially start debate. members now turn to the national defense authorization bill which provides defense programs and policies for 2021. follow the senate live on c-span2 when members gobble back in. >> coming up tonight on c-span2 the georgetown law center hosted a discussion on police reform following the george floyd's death and police custody. at 9:00 p.m. the senate intelligence committee hears from peter thompson, the nominee to the inspector general for the cia. later senators debate the police reform bill offered by senate republicans led by south carolina senator tim scott. >> next to conversation with police reform hosted by georgetown university pre-participants talk about what abolishing police looks like to them in ways that idea can be

implemented pre-they talked about the history of police brutality toward black and other minority communities. this runs one hour. >> this series called rethinking policing, activism and reform has examined efforts to reform the police as well as preparing the next generation for activism and healing, i invite you to explore these inspiring sessions on our website. but today our panel of legal experts will focus on police evolution, what it means, what it does not mean and what public safety can look like without policing as we know it today. our aim with this series is to educate and empower those in pursuit of meaningful change. both in the wake of george floyd's death in the midst of a larger legacy of racial injustice in this country. i want to thank you all again for joining and i want to thank chris henning for her leadership organizing the series.

let me introduce the moderators for today's roundtable. professor kristi lopez, she joined our faculty and generate 2017 right after completing a federal investigation to the police department. while serving with the department of justice and civil rights division she led the investigation and many examine patterns and practices across the country. including in new orleans, los angeles and ferguson. since joining our faculty professor lopez has cofounded our innovative policing program which is now launching a national. intervention program for the police department called able, acted bystander should by law enforcement. recently professor lopez has written an op-ed of how police culture could have saved george floyd's life and her thoughts on what defending the police, professor lopez, i will turn over to you. >> thank you so much, i really

appreciate the support you have shown on these issues and i very much appreciate in making all of this happen. i also want to thank you to all the viewers who have joined today, we've been talking about the need to educate more on these issues and you're all taking the time today to do that. i really appreciate that. i noise peak for the panel is when a that as well. in my name is kristi lopez, i'm a professor at georgetown in the innovative policing project, i like to invite the rest of our panelists as they introduce the panel in the roadmap for what were going to talk about today. >> since george floyd's death at the hands of the minneapolis police on may 25 in the protest that followed, it seems that

there might be a change underway and how america views policing. we've seen evidence and protest across the united states and just yesterday they released a poll that found 95% of americans believe the police reform in some capacity, that is unprecedented in the striking change that was conducted five years ago. one of the things that many people find encouraging about the changing national conversation about policing is a growing recognition to achieve the public safety that we want, we have to look beyond policing. we have to question our assumptions about what we even need. that's why the series is called rethinking policing. we have to confront the fact, the criminalizing poverty and making 10 million arrests per year end mass incarceration have not provided the public safety

even as the approach has caused tremendous harm in the committee. there is no question that it was activism forced the country to have them part conversation when they seized the moment to elevate the non-standing defending the police and police evolution. but as many of you know, there has been with potential police reform. what we will discuss today is how police appellations is not a slogan, it had its roots in the framework. it had its roots in is really positive in redemption. and for what to him about sexual violence and murder and to help fight these in a world without police is constituted. >> if you leave here with

nothing also help you get a greater appreciation for the framework in the mostly black, female thinkers who developed it. >> were gonna start with the idea of police abolition into this contemporary framer

and everything he had made a lawful and executive director, he is brilliant and energetic police actively provided community being defensive created a group

to greet me differently, directly from the doctors about

the in the place and prevent failed to do what they think that they don't actually think think is community is lacking in one letter simply if you look around the discriminant arbitrary protesters in individual, a form of accountability and the solidarity with officers committed acts of violence

reports and officer shoppers work on the nation a lot of

cupid and conviction in my

honest assessment. i got myself in many, but for leslie and her experience, event event to fill the community, have unico everything community not to receive not only makes a supported continue feeling that the reductive i for the

killings, burmese it was the big 3.4 times greater demand upon receipt when you create justice for the family broken apart by the violence of the wickedness, the decision to not think very confident return based on a

principle is to make if i think about leslie, remember they could create an opportunity to be a fine predictive of the filing things like mental and provided percolation, finding a kiss person who has killed his primary breadwinner for the family like torchlight or eric garner, a applicator entering data such as defendant, we and conceptualize my wanting when it

came to dangling, george zimmerman for others. permitting the above as an important principle to understand when poker are great for abolition, is a very generous argument, big, concretely while argument from the left grammatical is an argument from people that did interior work, spiritual work which allows them to move past the desire for revenge, this is not just the way to my company vocally killing when you talk about racing antiracism orbits about, around the country are around the world are copied that

we can enter my adjustment recognized, got mine pocket about traffic and the more clearly and i went -underscore, the local victims. in fact we overwhelmingly are centers of goods community is a many to turn away we turn away

from that, i figure something truly profound about us, telling point you may thank you very much and the many pink college and audience protecting time giving idea. i want to begin recognizing the ability of appraising against three conduct around the room

and at the same time there and thoroughly gathering executive order related to police proposal to reduce police restrictions around the country. proposal there and curtail the demand for abolition of the current movement that jackson has just begun to talk about. , more than 500 years of

exploitation about beloved indigenous community and other marginalized people. the abolition is not only about painting or even pre-funding and analogical greenery. to get the root of the doctors to get medical team trip, not reform it will require policing and illegal but numerous other domains that uphold deep-seated structural racism and violence. it is also possible that this is fatal to bring about much change by fourth avenue limited reform and committed to preserving the status quo. abolitionist copper more

training of police contemplated by the company speaking by congress as one abolitionist organization in more formations like abolition have unexploited. trump and the legislation proposed by parties speak to band chuckle, eric garner like killed by a chokehold in the jurisdiction that prohibited chokehold. moreover even if the please comply with the trabant, a prohibit near-death experiences perpetrated by police. these reforms have failed to bring about meaningful change reductive. appointment congress is proposed for example the military in the police, indeed immunity would be set for the right direction abolition offers something else, not reflected in these majors, a call to move away from policing

application imprisoned injustice for the puddle economy, and thick copper abolition for the independently. there is called for radical change because we need radical change because of the rings and structurally i was a month before every election becoming a five people and a chicago, abolitionist

person path in 2013. this preparation provided financial please protect, educational content abolitionist organized the organism abolitionist in aim for a positive vision of justice beyond criminal prosecution and punishment. years later abolitionist is bracketed depression the defendant police campaign and pushed for budgeting. the budgeting is another positive project which allows the city of chicago or d.c. or brazil or one of the origin i

entered direct public spending equally with public health, portable housing, community-based organization addressing, alternative first responders to what from all solidarity, the economy, community land trust and wait for military and regionalized policing heating. in other words hand-in-hand with the demand for abolition is dependably who had long been called black community to create a job in equitable economic and political order but i'll talk you for pointing out a couple of things, more conflict in some of

this amendment and abolition living. only partly about defending and building upon community including very important. we're going to turn to not, regulatory reform as you pointed out in my formative term referring in the building congress is not when burnout and what that means for the spring before we go there today not both, i wanted to deeply enter the intellectual history. imported democratic framework, not specified because it's something that has been lifted from any of the conversations that we have had, not surprisingly since many of the

people have never heard of before. may 25, they're just starting to figure out what this means. you tell us how police abolition thick into the broader tradition and what that means. why don't i start with the adjustment, talk a little bit about. >> i think it is significant to note that the history of abolition of the united states history of constitutionalism. in fact there is an article that was published a long, primarily

black and black women acted upon. kevin is a long history at the collective evolution. that are geared to the country that was built on the idea of freedom, the systems that are in

freedom and the truth sent which we recycl profile, what we convh you hope to create that communities are targeted for in-person overlap allowing them to tradition interested criminalization productivity, i

imperative, something that invented in 2020. the history of scholarship on abolition which is the expert on, and the history of legal work abolition. evolving creating framers. abolitionist length reimagining bring chris reimagining our economy when we were talking about abolition for this placement, reimagining, reimagining education and of course, reimagining public safety. because different systems at an abolitionist plan historically

has helped to reinvent, everything that is the length of the history and is the most recent incarnation of using the land reinvent the fence that intersects about a light. >> thank you so much for flaking that out in the compositional law and taking, many of the people are future lawyers or lawyers and my reason for the loss because i think he, not this accident and cannot work together and regret a wonderful constitutional and the idea behind it she thought about they really reimport very problematic it can affect.

one of the places in the legal field must look as active as injected and prosecuted i know reality is not simple, i know you have something to her as long i know others in the end, i think it important to think about investment organization during evolution at work and communicate and that we've been

doing outward in our communities for a long time. it is really important that we recognize bessie's call for abolition are coming for temperaments from community by increasing when we think about the concerns about crime and what we will do about unpaid neighborhood. people are in these neighborhoods and investing in scientific, i think alpine woman my organization nvc or collective action for faith in you are conducting. physical labor and building a

community and how many of these organizations are saying police are not helping attend the prophets. they are not helping build these neighborhoods. , it is important to believe in length materials: seven think about the long-term. that we have incredible adolescent leader in our community preventive abolitionist leaders iv meds ran away that they are referring to as a vision as building neighborhoods and communities where police are no longer neck with a paper is not what we rely on in order to keep up date. emily think about investing in

communities of slavery, of extraction every person that organization that are at the forefront and have to be the first place that we listed. and really think about the reinvestment of funds from divesting from current departments. a lot of the local organization are not national and don't get much sparkle and shine like these and i don't have any listed outline talk about craig that one up at the top of google with research celebrates organization, that a volunteer line and many have been shot out

at the nonprofit industrial complex that you not have a connection to well in defending that will help them bring their organization and the work that they are doing honest to scale. >> anything to add to what it look like in real life? be met to building on death and in his comments, and to identify two specific genealogy at separate abolitionist movement first black feminist and other women of color, they barely even mentioned as well as rachel, him and others, and work with the

abolitionist but their intellectual work on investment and violence and the failure to respond, these organizers were concerned color, and other colors faith when police can prevent more harm in response to interpersonal violence are many failed to respond at all. your organization back in fact, freedom of covered confinement and labors that i punish them in a negative that the "black panther" another flat radical korean lot in that organization inc. and pioneer with breakfast

programs and promote public, cowpox .-ellipsis and community policing back of anything can happen in this project got radical, were also active in her

book for 20 years, usually david located great contemporary interconnected struggles against slavery, materialism, the victorian structural effect connection to the work not work, gave estelle doctor every construction invisible working many people were forthcoming on

princely terminal legal system penalized three black people in popular failure of the popular project, how to create a social order within the opportunity barely that record rachel present and have an operator without policing that we witness within the horrific murder of george floyd, breonna taylor and

so many others. in the black abolition tradition and for the infant has to be economic if, when digested economic misery and explication and other marginalized people in this country and around the room historically and presently. abolitionist about 50 and recorded in this project but also international as we begin a podcast with intercept this to be linked and attacked as well. it is okay rachel capitalism, tourism at home and around the world and whether a brand-new deal, raphael, but represent, monetary. these are all abolitionist recognize that is connected and

indigenous community and other marginalized people and abolition abolishment the economic order into create an equitable political and economic order i in and sent. you have given us a lot of information about what the listening abolitionist. although this is the how that, we will provide a list of everybody who registered getting e-mail and you asked in the q&a for my reading done with and we will violate as well. let's move might actually do this. i want pot, 50 state, we do not

have a national policing, the only national internet everything that is not regulatory or specifically decrease abolitionist making different in every place. there is no right answer to what this will look like. that is why so important that we talk about the physical and we move on how you can keep that in mind to navigate the assistance as you attempt to look at changing policing back speaking out as a police report for indexing. to me in many respects effectively seems like a natural, at least to some extent depending. based on what we have learned about what works and does not

work. we have to stop public safety eggs into the criminals at the basket that is the baby became quite clear and was brought home in chicago for a lot of the reason. a lot of people agree with that. is the chief of police who is the head of the parental organization of the major city association had any response at a sentimental element and violent for thumping others ... only laudable but absolutely necessary long-term goal. no it not respect the 50 untamed 15 radical to me. obviously another respect of the listeners framework is far-reaching and the call policing to other person, dustin told us about that of how we organize as often i really

however, the senate report. defined as the fittings all the and how likely response to problems like domestic violence, sexual violence, homicide in the world in different than expected. a critical resistance that compared abolitionist report to reformist reforms and people might want to look at later but it's something that we might have about right now. let's talk with you justin, specifically how is reform and abolition payment versus requiring framework you my perspective on that.

i don't think you can wrap your mind around abolition without purely engaging the question. i think the two go hand-in-hand. if you are looking at exploring options and alternatives that have digested, the question of how you get justice in a situation where there has been harm great people were looking for justice retribution even alternate method which i believe referencing we think about what i earlier in terms of provision in the local mental health and education, things that are targeted in the community that have been directly harmed in many cases, many of us think

about the role of police in a society as a reader of publicly and that conceptualization of policing is incorrect and inaccurate of what police do pretty clear more clear what police do in our society, overwhelming there is some number over 90% of police work is funding the nonpayment incident, there is a lot of violence. in the intervening and stop less violent than people think and they create more violence than people think. the truth of the matter is public safety and are more accurately, an example, coming into my mind now, we live in a society that there's not enough

ventilators for people that we have tanks for police. if you're trying to create public, people will behavior with my family and let police, and public safety, the project is using, if you think about placing them financial resources away from his existence recreating a lot of terms, we have documented police killings in the united states that are astronomical empathetic petri, we have yet to document the amount of injuries and acts of violence that do not kill people but may hurt people and omit any interesting in an emotional sense, we take research the delay from at least in think about your interventions in our

public health system programs and enterprise are the black feminist tradition for years, reinvesting her gift, really create a more safe. and had to be an article in a short period of time but i think you have the home of the money for my perspective reality for money. i think this is perfect for 2014, we had a slogan you want to think about black-white matter as a slogan that was is valid slogan and we shifted to a slogan today with organ that includes the proposal to get directly to local, state and national legislators and the slogan is talk.

i know people are having a hard time coming to that but i think the demand is healthier. the financial demand that is so clear, it is hard to talk over and over again, within me i think people are cleared on what that means to become the police. wrapping your mind around it coming to grips with actually following through on the demand. >> i think what you're if there really underscored, a lot of work here and it starts with this idea, you have to rethink of public safety. public safety is not the criminal justice, it is about the medical system in the public health and education really do the work of looking at the budget, we need to many people doing, we have public safety if we were to ship over. those other things in abolitionist front is one of the

things that you pointed out, not about the findings. it is essential that despite, to build the other institution that have to be a part of any other listening strategy in real life and what with mike. unfortunately there is no one answer because every community is regular differently incur in terms of how they defined in the wrong place. i must get legal think about. i left what it looks like in real life question that people have in real life, what do we do about homicide and sexual assault domestic violence, you run an organization that works in reducing sexual violence, what do you think about this coming year world where mentally clawing. from the street, how does this address under the agreement?

>> what kind of little bit more into something that justin was meant to was really important for folks to send that police officers play right now when it comes to public safety. in a drop killings into the attack that is a link to the vineyard hampton this week police in their time but studies have shown about 810 incident by police officers are considered by the police himself to be noncriminal matters, police officers arrest on average 1% every two weeks, the vast majority help any arrest, police officers enter my crank area in new york city society so that 40% of the government did not make a single colony of abyssinia entrance on ten and

ten in your link drop transport respect of the police officer time is spent dealing with violent crimes. i'll and when i call company, who is going to be there, who is going to respond, is a fraction of a fraction of what were asking police to do. the vast majority is the securities that inevitably results on the gosling harassment that we think about leaving i want a different context for the district of columbia, we have pretty here in the district of columbia for a population of 700,000. there was a violent crime for the entire year in washington,

d.c. at that rate each police officer when handling violent crimes once every two inaccurate. that's even when they're working on crime, the most effective way of handling the problem nationwide coming police officers only make an arrest for 50% of homicide meeting about a third of homicide what about, what are we doing about the armor we are investing $15 billion nationwide update, is supposed to keep a safe actual effectiveness is part-time. survivors and is perhaps the

single most obvious way in which police failed to do but there's supposed to do. got there about 1000 health ngc every year. only 92 recorded periods we are talking about a fraction to make it into a prospect of business. we have to think about why that is the case, much about a poor record of knowing sexual assault that nobody wants to report in the first place. i've told me when they report they herby traumatized by police and public units that are just as harmful as the felt. were talking about only a fraction of approximately people you are, presents separately the

places on earth. what we are asking, what abolitionists are asking, instead of the arctic, we think much, much more about prevention and the precise praise that requires that the program, the program i started ngc and trent boyd doing education in schools and working with adult to teach. no boundaries impact health, i'll be completely honest i work with people where vibrant affectional violent and must not

rely heavily on police and prison to prevent or respond to sexual violence and must and organizing that i know better abolitionist machine for a change in and not respond to sexual violence with incarceration are themselves survivors. self-centering the voices means that we need to spend the time and energy focusing on preventing and accountability practices that don't rely on the same size and program that they are telling us ivory traumatizing in the first place. >> , thank you. there is only a minute left and i want to underscore, listening to the people were victims and asking them what they want to see police they look like in the future is a great place to start and many victims of sexual

violence will tell you is not working. internet act back police to be more proactive in a lot recognized it as a prevention that maybe people besides i'll do that proactive work. in addition to have a response "after words". we literally have one minute left, one of the questions that we got about 90 i likely could get a chance with one of everything that people do work on but not only part of the coming weeks and months. i think when important building on what chris he suggested, the black-white agreement in

organizations. on economic justice to donate unbilled funds, participatory defense efforts, help people escaping held in jail because a two-part test for posting bond. i think is important as death and was suggesting to support efforts to deal openly and honestly with the debt owed to black. .

candidates on a national level and think about supporting them on a level right here in washington, d.c.. we have local campaigns and policing in dc. we had a candidate that worked in full support of that initiative who was victorious of weeks ago and we've seen also there's programming locally and there are definitely places you can look for information on these issues so start to look beyond the traditional venues in the times and "washington post" for your news on these issues for a more informed perspective.

>> what we have now is a product of unwillingness to engage. i think they want the commitment and then we are outsourcing it also means different individual choices. inertia isn't with us. we can't just change that and expect them to do the right things. we have to keep our eye on the ball and that means participating in the process. >> thanks so much. on the really important aspects

of the path forward i just want to thank the panelists for being here today into sharing their insights and again as i said we will be sending up out a list f resources into these issues. thank you so much for being here for the entire series. thank you.

>> any inappropriate political influences. mr. thompson previously served with national securit the natioy agency and worked as a federal prosecutor for the justice department. >> i'd like to welcome the witness this morning. the president nominee congratulations on your nomination. i'd like to start by recognizing the family you brought with you today. i understand you have your wife iand your daughter. welcome to both of you.sh this is as much your day as it