visit booktv.org or check your program guide for full schedule information. ♪ ♪ >> welcome to the become festival's virtual conversations. i'm crow velocityman. i want to start by acknowledging the partnership win the festival and kqed. today's event, unplugging in a virtual world. joining me is tiffany shlain. thank you for joining me today. >> guest: i'm happy to be here. >> host: her book but the

importance of getting off our screens one day a week is an interesting time to think but unplugging given this moment during the coronavirus pandemic as we're taping thing interview. we're finding ourselves even more tethers to screens because we are able to do things like meet people in person, go out to our workplaces or schools for most of us, or hang out in a bar or a cultural venue. we'll hear more but the book from tiffani and then have a discussion. so, over to you, tiffany, take it away. >> guest: thank you. it's great to be here imi'm from the bay area, i'm glad we're still able to happen this wise, adapting toking this extraordinary circumstance we're living in. which actually this moment we're in feels very similar to a moment i was personally in around 11 years ago, actually

this monday, the 11 year neaves of my father's death, and what happened was my father died of brain cancerment my dad was also an author, leanord shlain, and his love of book stores and readers. very close and he died of brain cancer just within days of my daughter being born and it really felt like one of those moments where life was grabbing me by the shoulders and saying focus on what matters. my husband and i decided with our kids to turn off the screen one day a week for what we call our technology shack pat. it's been the best thing i have ever done in any life for the practice that keeps giving and brings such balance and mean something so many things which i'll go into. and i should also tell you i love technology. i'm not antitech. the other six days i'm in the

web and i my background is that my 20s in i founded the -- i have been excite bet the potential of technology to connect us and spent my core either run thing webby awards or made a lot of films bolt the potential of technology. what the continue -- and also the curse. some whats way wrestling with ten years ago i was feeling distracted. i felt look i couldn't get a complete thought out without my phone buzzing or notification happening and i felt like i was in a account state of being distracted and didn't like it. think really what i was seeking by doing this one day without screens is just some time to think, connect in an thaw ten tick way and turn our screens off. it was too much. i should also tell you, i am jewish but not a religious jew, more of humanistic jew, secular

jew but i love rituals. and i love the food and the rituals and a lot of the idea offed shabbat, is the day of rest, and so we started to do that ten years ago so friday night -- we make bread, which has to rise all day, and then we usually make a beautiful meal and invite people over and it's the best meal of the week because in win has their phones out and we have a wonderful day and the next day is no screens. it's our favorite day of the week, owl elder daughter is 17 and our younger daughter is 11 and they love it. a day filled with things we love to do. now, that was all before the pandemic. and then of course the last two months we have all had to be online so much more, and i do feel like it's a very similar

moment for like the whole world in terms of what -- i felt life was grab michigan by the shoulders and saying focus on what is important. i feel like right now all of us are being grabbed by the shoulders and saying, focus on what is important. what matters. what is important, your health, your family, and enough money to buy food, cooking food, being grateful, helping others, all of these fundamental less unions felt like -- lessons spend million time think us about on the tech shabbat than others. we are on screen so much. it's a lifeline. screens are the way we connect. we connect with family members on zoom before we turn off the screens for a tech shabbat and my second opinion is so many people said are you still doing your tech shabbat now that we're sheltering the place, and it's

just kind of always stuns me because am i doing it, it's like my saving grace. so many benefits to it. especially now they feel like magnified the benefits because i've been so stressed. we all have been. about what is happening, what's going to happen and just -- it allows me to take one foot in front of the other, one week at a time. i look forward to something every week. it's really weird because i'm a pig planner and now we can't make any plans but every week i know today is friday, it's shabbat. we'll make a lovely meal. shut off the screens. feels difference than all the other days. i always sleep better upon my friday nights. so i feel like doing a tech shabbat or a screen-free day of whatever you want to call it feels like so much more beneficial during the pandemic when everything is running together, time is running together, work and social and everything is running together. we're on the news so much more

which is like we're bathing our bodies in cortisol and stress. and of course there's so many beautiful things about the web right now. a couple months ago, i actually did a show in new york called dear human. i what really pulled from a lot of ideas in my book 24/6 and i worried my early optimism with the web and the tech industry and business model of manipulating our attention wag bringing out the worst in humanity so all the social media was making us compare soreses and fomo and that really was a lot of the crux of my show, but i ended the show and said what could it take to bring the web back to the web we want? what could we all be focusing on together? and that moment was february 15, 2020. i am at home and of curse just

within weeks the whole country, different parts of the world shut down, and i'm seeing the web being used in so many incredible miraculous ways. so i have renewed faith in the web. renewed faith in humanity if we choose to look at this as a huge opportunity and lesson, and i'm worried like arch else, my brother is a doctor who has been working at the frontlines of covid and that's been intense and wonderful because i'm really proud of him. and just all the food donation, cord nags i've seep and microdonations to help people and gofundme campaigns and so many way thes web is rising to the occasion and allowing us to bring out the best of humanity, the best our human strengths but shouldn't be on it all the time. it is even more so i think we're

going to -- we're so craving human contact right now from other people. my biggest hope is that when we emerge from this period, we're going to finally be together and not be staring at our phones because prepandemic you're walking down the street and everybody staring at their phones, group of teenagerred together they're all staring at their phones. maybe we're going to be so hungry for true home connection after this that maybe we'll put down our phonees am great thing that would come out of this. but the biggest ritual that i say in the become -- i'll share with you some of the benefits because in the back i good deep on the neuroscience and historical reference and school of why it's so good so many of the benefits that happen from us unplugging one day a week that i think right now we have so much time, to much time on our hands. if you have the police of being at home and you're that an essential worker and you're thinking, how can i take this

time and have something come out another it that would be good and sustaining for the rest of my life, i really think integrating the ritual of a day without screens, and i'll tell you why i think a day. this is an idea that is over 3,000 years old. some people call it the sabbath, shabbat, different words for every different religion have some form of a day of rest. just right now in our modern society, only the most observant and religious people in that faith will do it. the seven day event is clips, a full day of san bath, orthodox jews, full day of a day of rest. i never met anyone except the one orthodox jew i knew -- i'm in california, not new york -- but other than that, the shabbat which i have many friends who are jewish they will light the candle or do a nice dinner but don't do a full day of rest but

i experiences the power is in the full day of rhys, some serious wisdom it takes whole day to truly reset and reboot and turn off the outside world 0 so you can tune into yourself and to the people you might live witness but if you're aloe i highly rem it. and to your kids and really go a little more inward. right now we're online all the time, reacting to the news, zooming witch family, connecting with friended, on social media. a constant state of reacting and connecting. a lot of good happening right now and i don't want to discount that, but what i fine that a lot of times on saturday is i do my very best thinking. i think. and i think we are -- we have created a society and culture that doesn't value reflection because we leave no space for it. so, i do a lot of writing on saturday. so the fridays are very social with a dinner with friend and family, even our family now

we're talking about the week, everything is about the week which is a manageable way to think but the time. great wisdom in that as well. saturday i do a lot of writing, journaling, and doing nothing which is a very important thing to also be able to do, to do nothing. we value so much productivity and optimizing every second of our lives these days. and i want to walk and listen to a podcast and wash the dishes and learn a new language. there's a value in just letting your whole soul fallow. even in farming every seven years you let the earth lie fallow and none new crops so every seven days you need to let your brain and life go fallow soow can have the necessary nutrient to grow and build things and one benefit of the many is that ken and i feel so much more productive after giving ourselves a full day of

rest. never really giving ourselveses a full day of rest right now. even our leisure relaxing, you're posting on social media and have to write a witty caption and that feels like work. and the other thing i noticed after doing this for ten years, i'm a filmmaker. i run a film studio in san francisco and most of my time i'm making films. this is my first book. i'm always trying to put myself in the most creative flow state. every creative person is what can you do? used to be traveling. not doing that a lot of that right now. traveling is inspiring but if i look back on the last ten years i have my best ideas on saturday. that's when i always have my breakthroughs and there's actual neuroscience behind this. during the week you're getting all this input and stimulation but it's when you are day dreaming or washing the dishes or taking a sure, going no a run, your mind starts putting

things note an unusual way. the default mood network and creative comes from unusual connections happening. have my best ideas. so ken and i -- my husband, professor at uk berkeley -- uc berkeley, a shoutout. but we feel so much more productive by truly taking a day off. i feel much more creative. i have problems sleeping. i just started -- i'm 50 and my 40s i started having problems sleeping. i'm always able to sleep on friday nights. the deepest sleep of the week. i generally think i'm more patient and i'm pretty impatientment long-term i know i want to to to theshow slow thins down and be more patient on saturday. it's great to teach our kids how to be bored, how to not need to be stimulated every second. boredom is the runway to creativity. so if you're feeling bored,

great, something good is going to happen. it's going to be a creative idea that comes right awe the bat. keep our kid boredom and ourselves ourselves and every second if you're just flipping through your phone to distract yourself which right now during the pandemic, we need distraction also but not at eave moment. and every in between moment or every pause moment just always turning to our phone or screen to be entertain ordinary distracted or productive. it's good to just leave space to just be, and i find that i do that mostly on our tech shabbat. it has really lead to practices i do the other six days. i no longer look at my phone when he wake up because that's my most creative thinking time and working on the book "24/6" i recognized that's my sweet spot no write. i get up at 5:00 a.m. before the kid get up and i would ride from 5:00 to 7:00 and the kids get

up. but i noticed if -- when i wake up if you just look at your phone when you do wake -- i do use my phone as as alarm clock. that's the thing that works for me. whatever. but i keep it on airplane mode in the morning. don't turn it on. c-span: i cam down, have my coffee and i'm writhing, what am ick think budget. what the day going to be lick and juice like 15 minutes so nation to start we day with where i am instead of where thed -- a stressful e-mail or stressful news headline or social media thing it's my own framing of the day. before guy to sleep i have my nighttime ritual, i take a bath, i read and i write in a journal again about what happened in the day, what was great about the day, something i were i did differently about the day and what die hope for tomorrow. sandwich my day that doesn't involve the opinion. superimportant. i also in our family we do no

screens at the table when we're eating unless during the pandemic if we have zoom with family members and then the screens go away. i try to do a one hour walk every day without a screen. so in the book i talk about all thinks you can do the other six days and then the plethora of benefits from one complete day off. and a lot of -- a lot of people have said to me -- now i've been out with the book for six months and it's been fun. changed my life, or i didn't think my kids would like it. i think my partner would love it. talk about a lot of strategies, how to get people in your life ready for your to do this. you might be psyched to do this but maybe your husband or wife or partner or your kids -- i talk but the best way to approach it. it's not like we're going to turn off screenes for a day. will not good over. we it's how you position it. you say tome what do you wish we did more together?

and pretty much make the day filled with that. it's a day of joy, day of cook, napping, reading, biking, just nothing can involve a screen. i a have a whole section in the book, fun things to do without a screen. thought it was funie had to include it but i did. so i think during the pandemic, i know everyone is saying i'm so exhausted from zooms or i'm on the screen -- i have carpal tunnel, i have shooting pains because i'm sitting in so many positions in any house on my katrina. so think about -- on my screen. i think more of a reason that you should create space, and i think that that's area day 0 week and it's a thousand years old, one whole day week to reset. it has brought me such comfort when i've been so anxious during the week. i find i completely official

even shut out the outside world for a day and think but what your grateful for. quiets the anxiety voice. things you do have but not what you don't have or mice lose in the future. and brought an amazing sense of balance and resetting for me personally. so, i was excited about the book before because is what like -- i have this ancient simple practice to change my life and nip can do it and you don't have to believe -- wherever you come from. i have a lot of clips christian. it'ses a idea from jude jim but i do not -- judaism. i have great respect foam whom mo believe in religion but i come from a -- don't like the word secular but i come from it as a secular practice i want to liberate it from religion and make it just a practice, like

yoga and meditation has brought great things to people from all different backgrounds and i really think the concept of a tech shabbat, a day without screens, can he bring much joy and meaning and balance and peace to people, especially right now during the pandemic and at that point, this point, i would love to bring chloe back in because i'm so excited to talk to her and just hear what questions you might have had about the book or anything it says. >> thank you, tiffany for sharing so much great information. you are a nonpracticing jew. as i am myself. >> are you? >> yes. >> your name did not give that away at all. >> veltman? my relatives from eastern europe. that with my upbring, time i'm

curious how tech shabbat as you practice it today with your family may compare to the shabbat traditions, they're might have been, when you were growing up. >> okay, didn't grow up with shabbat and i'm glad you brought that up. ways that are different from people truly observing shabbat. someone said a rabbi said you're me most religious nonreligious person -- i always do tech shabbat and i'm very observant in my tech shabbat and i do a lot of similar rituals. did not grow up withshack but but mahouts did and they had a beautiful friday night meal weapon set the table, fresh cut flowers, it's a beautiful meal. if you really observant orthodox jew you're not supposed to create -- you're not even supposed to write. i doing my best -- >> you're not supposed to turn

on lights. >> for me i was about trying to take the essence and kernel of shabbat whys presence, gratitude, joy, family, sanctuary of home, cooking, really being present. that what i was trying to do and screens take away so much of those things. did you grow up with shabbat. >> mostly, certainly not as very much a week he practice some of my parents' siblings, my aunties in particular were more into it so we would do that with them. i'm curious. obviously i love the impulse for this idea comes from your husband, ken. but the practice, the desire to be with family, that sort of thing, was that modeled for you in other aways if not the friday night dip center what kind of rituals around the idea outside want to manifest in the shabbat

you do now, were they present in your youth? >> it's interesting. i growing up -- my parents got divorced so it was actually i think in many ways doing a shabbat -- before they get divorced there was a lot of rituals. we always went to the movies every sunday night, and then when i was eight they got divorced which was really a hard period for me, and i think in many ways i -- i do write about this in the book -- when he went deep who i this is important is because a lot of way is understand how personality ritual is for family and what happens when that breaks and i'm sure if i was on a therapy couch like a lot of my friend or family -- understanding how profound it's been for our family. can also be very meaningful if you married or without kid but for me it's an important ritual

that ties us back together. during the week we're doing our separate things and then on friday night to saturday night we knit ourselves back in this really connected way. and i -- it's the closest i feel to everyone in the family is on friday night to saturday night. and then -- we're on zoom. meats my -- meats my daughter. want to say hi? >> that's my grandmother's name. >> that's my grandmother's name. oh. >> for the book festival. >> i know at bit about you. >> one thing in book i talk about he make hala every week and as soon as the pandemic started, whatever that was, nine weeks ago for us, when we decided to do our baking on

zoom. so now every week we bake hala with anywhere from 50 to 150 people on zoom. she is the needier and today we bring in guests, shifts. an been a fun part of the pandemic, and there's this funny moment today where somebody was asking about the dough was not moist enough, and we were saying about how keep kneading. that's you get the dough right and it's so symbolic to the period we're in right now. we just have to keep kneading. and it's so much about processing what is going on, and i think that a lot of learning the great lessons from this period is about being present for what is going on and not

just living in a state of duff distraction from what is going on. you could be on the news and scrolling but a real opportunity to really be present to what is happening right now. a very long answer. >> host: that's fine. i enjoyed needing bloom and hearing where the idea generates from within you. a apart from taking your hala making on zoom, i'm curious how the stay-at-home orders and the coronavirus pandemic has changed your shabbat practice. >> we don't have people over on friday night. we really -- we miss that. it's actually -- i loved it because we really having wonderful conversations as a family, whereas normally we have new people or or family and friend hereafter but i feel like that happensen the zoom. hala is very social people from berlin and italy and the united states. that part was very social put

the -- we don't have people over which is a big difference but the saturday part is pretty similar. we have managed to do it when our kids have had sports and had to go to a field or something or basketball court when we're doing it but really we try to not make any plans on saturdays, so not a lot of plans happening right now so they feel very similar and then at 5:00 p.m. on saturday night the girl goes back online, we go back online. we used to go for -- go out to movies and in. that is not happening. we good uptears now. we're awful competed to go back online and that's an important component. turns it off lets you reappreciate technology in a whole new way when you good back on because it's more -- thank god we have the web and by living without it for one day it helps you re-appreciate it in this new way when you go back on. i can't wait to turn it off, and

then i can't wait -- i'm usually excite to know what happened in the world and everything happens exists without you. that's really good thing to know. people are saying what if people can't get touch with you and i should mention we do have a land line, and that's a really good thing to have in california for earthquakes, for fires, lots of natural disasters also, but if somebody needed to get in touch with us they've'll call us on the landline but it hardly ever rings. saturday is out in going outward, it's more inward, and all week long we're texting and facebook and calls and zoom and i feel really good to have that boundary of not being available to everybody and everything for one day. >> the presentation you gave today, but i just like to dig in a bit more. obviously in people would say

the pandemic makes taking a tech shabbat more important than ever before. you're among those people. how would you respond to those that think that taking a day off from screens may seem untenable for them before covid-19 and seems lied -- ludicrous but impossible right now because actives -- screens require us to be on screen. >> i hear that. guess i just really -- i would just ask the person -- i think to me it is really valuing time withor without a pandemic to listen to your own thoughts for a day, and read in a -- i actually do a lot of reading on shabbat and read in such a different way than i do during the week. feel like -- the same argument i would get people couldn't imagine turning them off before but i -- it feels so good, and

actually a lot of people that have read my become that are now doing it, i think people are scarred to do it but i think if you fill the day with -- i'm going to write, i'm going read, i'm going to cook, take a long wake, play music, do some water coloring, just all those things i would just think that you don't realize how much you need a break weapon weren't designed to be on this much, and even -- when there's a new baby in the world, don't overstimulate: it's being overstimulated and we're living in such a state of overstimulation that we froth what i feels like to just not have -- feels so rejuvenating and nourishing and all the thing is mention it that i think i would just offer to anyone that said that to just try it. do some planning ahead of time. when we think but put out all all the thing you want to think

deeply about. hope that -- i watched a documentary but a the spanish flu and my favorite parts were the journal entries of people temperature the period and i think it's an opportunity to really write about how we're feeling right now and what we're think but, and it's really important to create space for that; so, i would just say to try it, and the other thing i would say if you are going to try it which i really walk you through in the book, to look at your calendar for four weeks wef trying it it's about the repetition of the ritual. some people signify on vacation and turn off my phone for a week. that's great, to me the power, the tagline of the book is the power of unplugging one day a week. so it's about the ritual and eave week i know i'm going to goal a full reset. -- going to get a full reset. >> if-1/2 the world practiced tech shabbat how might the way in which countries and cities

around the globe have responded to the coronavirus -- the economic fallout, how might the response be different itself every single person were practicing it. >> you ended in a different way. was going to say be so good for the planet if one day we are weren't all consuming. but how would be coordinate efforts, are you thinking about that. >> how might this whole thing which has been a bit of a mess in some countries more than others, our letters and arch wells -- leaders and arch else were doing this practice how might it -- >> i have an answer for that. i think -- i'm not a fan of our president at all. i think he has no prefrontal core text and -- cor text and if he spent a day thinkingle and being reactive, the what is

happening is we didn't see a plan is in country well-executed, and i mean such a bigger issue about our country but i have what everybody took a shabbat, did the same thing everything day, with their family and didn't consume and went inward for one day. we would have more thoughtful responses to so many things but certainly a lot of like at the beginning it was just like running around and not having a coordinated responsive effort. but of course, like, hospitals can't do it. if they taking care of patients that it nothing going to turn of screens and monitoring people so i would not think that. i think the majority of people who are online 24/7 do they need to be online 24/7? we're in an emergency situation with a with a lot of doctors and essential worker and health-care workers but i love the thought. i might write about that a

little more because -- or think a little more tomorrow because it's a great question. >> i mean i suppose really when i read your book for me it's not about the screen thing honestly. talking but a mindfulness, state of mindfulness, a series of mindful necessary practices which turning offure screen one day a week is a manifestation of the larger idea and people who get at it threw different techniques from yoga and -- i understand what you focus of the screen. but i can't help but think that beyond this sort of -- the obvious idea that we have frontline work arers who have to be then screen, that certainly if everyone had a -- take that moment to stop and think and do mindful practices that maybe we

would -- some might be a little different. don't know. obviously it's not a solution to the problem at large but might help a little bit. >> i think i love what 'er saying because it's a really -- about we're so reek active. the internet is built to be, like, amygdala response. it's not think and turn it off and think pout it. think put what that means or a couple steps ahead. it's so immediate which is why it's so sexy and exciting and fun if want to live in a world that values deep thinking and long-term thinking and planning and we indiana some big, like coordinated effort in our globe and country. that's not happening.

>> okay, so, obviously tremendous benefits to not looking town at your screen all day. put i want to talk a little bit about artificial reality. there's developments in ar, artificial reality, that has transform the way we receive information and probably in the too distant future make thing vaccines you hold obsolete. the information will be more am bent. so might -- ambient. so how might these developments -- an updated version. >> i thought about that. i added in the -- it's not going to he screens and pretty much a world looking down. that was my big issue with everyone walking down the street and looking down all the time and not looking at where they are and i hope when we emerge from this that people are going

to be present with each other when they're together. but it's not going to be keeps at in point. it will automaticked realitiment on -- augmented reality on your screens or contact lens. even right now we have to try to remember to look at the camera but i want to look at you, but i have to look above at the camera or else it doesn't look like i'm looking at the viewer and the audience. this is so funky right now that we can't make real eye contact on the laptop which is slightly off. we're talking rite now but i think that's one of the reasons zoom is so exhausting, they're something kind of slightly off and it -- always trying to rejust the homeostasis on connection but it's not there. to go back to your question, yeah, the screens at some point might be gone but i will still need our whole family to turn whatever you want to call, the either of the web off so we're

innovate getting input from everywhere. if you're constantly getting input you can't really understand the input in your own mind and your own soul, and i worry but when you can't see it. >> call the police. >> it's not put of puture screen down. we turn the whole web off? that will hope. >> google home and voice activated devices can be equally -- enormous privacy concerns and you have one in four americans, adults, owning a smart speak per, today so why are we actually okay with people using voice technology during a tech shabbat. >> i struggled with that. you can see -- i did this brun -- sorry, my daughter's in and out of the screen. over there is our record player,

you see that. which we sometimes use on shabbat but we cook a lot on shabbat and we often use the timer, and sometimes we'll say play billy holliday or certain music we listen to on shabbat and have made that exception and i've thought about it. it is an exception we make and i think it's because it's not pulling us out of what we're doing, but it's a little bit of a gray area for sure and i have more and more -- i remember my husband was given a video version of -- i'm like, no, keep it out of the house and then the more i -- that might lead -- we have had a lot of conversations about internally and if have beside asked the book. that's our one exception and i know it's gray but for us it's just kind of helping us ago and it's not like this outside world interjecting with us. but it's great. i think everyone is going to --

i a friend of mine who teaches me guitar is can i till tune my guitar because my tuning app is on me phone or in a pandemic you want to say they make sure to zoom their mother and aunt a couple times and when you're in that situation i would say yes. just say what i have found is like the boundary. like -- i'm not using screens today. i like being i want to look that up. i can't. guess i'm going to walk over and see if my bookshelf can offer me guidance. like that. constraints are good and i find they're liberating if feel like rated by having a strict boundary of no screens. just frees me. it frees me to be in a different way one day a week. >> i want to challenge you on one thing you said today and heard you say in other

interviews you have done if the idea of coronavirus renewing your faith in the and we the internet and to the extent we are taking more time to connect with people and doing things like sharing art virtually, that may be true, but i mean honestly during the coronavirus, information and fake news, think but the digital divide, i think is being witnessed in unprecedented ways special hi for kids going school, some of whom don't have access to the internet and to screens and simply disadvantaged not to mention immigrant populations. why do some -- >> i think -- renewed faith. i guess three months ago i was like, oh, my gosh, it's just exacerbating our human weaknesses comparison, jealousy, fomo, polarization, then the pandemic happened and i saw

creativity happen in such a bevel u beautiful way. co lab racings -- cocoa lab racing, in new york 29% of household do not have i would five. agree the -- do not have wi-fi. the digital divide -- now finally i see so many important articles so how do we get everyone online that needs to be online, build more of the web we want? and also fearful but the tracing software that's going gift the government more power and then that becomes a scarier thing. so, i'm not completely like, oh, the web, everything is great now. was really much more like the web is bringing out the worst three months ago and now i'm like the web is bringing out a lot of good in humanity right now. i've cried from laugh and from beautiful things over thing is have seen.

people have shared on social media instead of being look at what party i'm another. it's look at the food donation or help my friend's restaurant 0 try to recreate this paged painting. i feel like this a new chance to look at the web aanew, look at the digital divide and think but the power we're giving to government and tracking us and the implications and we have time to thing but these thing is with choose to. a lot of us aren't dog our normal jobs how much do we take the web to what we want it to be. think it's an opportunity because i was kind of feeling like just all being sucked into this way we were using it three months ago and it changed for me. >> certainly changed for so many of us, right? one thing i wondered about the idea of taking a -- i feel like

at least in my life, the best practices i can have, the ones that help me the most are the ones where rather than going cold turkey for an entire day and being bonkers the rest of the week on it, having every day have the boundaries for meals. i don't know. maybe that's just a privilege thing. i don't know. or just trying to do -- get the journaling journaling in a little built every day and a tiny bit of meditation and other things you talk about. >> integrate this stuff so it's not just going cold turkey. let's have a -- the fabric of our lives so we're not on 24 hours a day. >> i did mention to you i do these other rituals the other six days on the book, like the journaling in me morning and at bed i don't look at the phone. i do integrate about the week, microinterventions i call them.

but again, what i feel like the power, complete power of this practice is it's a full day. it's like in tab tandem. every weekend we get to reset, if i feel like i was on too much, seeing to much bad news and next week i'm not going to do that. so gives me that bigger be how to integrate it and then die minithings. i agree. it's not like i want to binge six day -- i don't like the word digital detox because it implies you can complete live live without it which you can't. throughout the week if you can have healthier relationship to it and then one full day gives you that perspective that you lose every week. >> okay. i've got to ask you about the ukelele. >> it's right here.i'm just.

>> you're a musician. and i wonder what your favorite tunes for play when you're at home on tech shabbat. or maybe you like to may for us. >> oh, my gosh. that ate great question. i the ukelele is very simple to pick up. let me just plug this. in takure time. >> my whole household there i don't know. am i actually going to play but i have to tune it. i tell you i play -- lately i've been playing a lot is but buffalo springfield phenomenon the 60s, something happening here, and -- what's the name of it -- but my whole family -- one

plays electric, ken plays electric, learning electric, so what it's worth we buffalo springfield. i have been playing this song a lot and it's very poignant. a six's protest song and then odessa, we old are daughter plays acoustic get tar and that's putting your find a different mode. when you're playing music you're innovates think us about nigglings except the music, and it's really good to put your mind in a different mode a little bit every day, and what i think is a whole day every week. it helps everything. to just get out of your head to get out of the web, to get out of the phone and just like exist in a different way. that is the biggest message that the ukelele teaches me. >> on that musical note, i'd like to say a huge thank you to

tiffany shlain for joining us. you can buy the book and have it shipped directly to you. and if you want to find out mother about kqed's events go to kqed.org/events and you have been watching bay area book festival unbound. ♪ ♪ >> here's a look at becomes being published this week. larry tye recount decided life of senator joe mccarthy. in say it louderty any argue that black voters vital to american democracy, and julie kelly offers her opinion on the never trump movement on disloyal

opposition and then the examination of secession and feel our of liberal politics. town hall an argument against claims made about president trump and this votes in the 21 biggest lies about donald trump. and in let them eat tweets, political scientist, jacob hacker argue that visits make claims that ben flint the elites. watch for the authors in near foote future on booktv on c-span2. >> our program originated ton crowdcast but can be viewed as well on our facebook and youtube pages for viewers who want to watch with closed captioning check out youtube and you can enable