>> i won't presidential history because the presidency is especially built around who everybody pressured into it. it's important that everyone understand him and the presidency. but i think the biographies are alienating in the ways that the visual presentations and the way that they are written. so i really wanted the reader to feel as if they had never read a presidential biography. that they had everything they needed the beginning of the book to feel as though they were the

experts. so that was part of it. i really did think think a lott my reader and the other part was thought washington has been called by presidential editors to edit the paper called him an vanilla wants to my face. [laughter] they are too much fun. that's why the fighters survived. but the thing is he is, you can break him out and it can be interesting but you have to have fun with him. i think that it's a whole different thing. but a lot of it is the way that i organize the material in my head when i was trying to make sure i got things across and then i just tried to be vulnerable and share it with everyone.

i do think that there are certain things that help you understand. i can tell you in a sentence for instant we can say he lost more battles than he one so why are we talking about the battles when he's not fighting on the frontlines. ..

>> i want you to be excited about it and talk about add a cocktail party. >> and she said you know that washington loves dogs? [laughter] and i did not know that. so we talked about that. to your point. >> and that he loves dogs you have to know to call the dog sweet. you need that. it is ridiculous. you also need details you can't just know how many people that he owned and he felt a certain way you need to

know that he assaulted his slaves you can just hear that you need an example of that. so every detail i can find. >> so you told me earlier that because this book does so much to demystify washington in the context of relationships using the model for the presidency it also demystifies the presidency and there's a way to make the traditional biographies it is roman emperors and certainly the president is just a dude that we chose. it's interesting how throughout the book are always sure to emphasize not just the people around them but washington is an uncertain

person to have goals but also what i had in my mind is danny glover that i am too old for this shipped - - shit i don't want to do it anymore. [laughter] >> we think of them as a monolith with all the details. that's just not true. and annotating the constitution. >> i found that so revealing. just to get into his head how he understood himself doing the jo job. >> and him in the office and it should give us comfort in the messiness in some ways. >> a big part of the book you cannot deal with that.

and he's always concerned about what he will do on the farm and other people that he owned and what they would do. so what you talk about towards the and is how washington troops would always say yes i will free my slaves at some point but talk about his ambivalence and unwillingness to take the extra step. and then it appears in virginia someone who did take the extra step. >> i feel this is something biographers try to pull over on us. they make it sound i think

it's hard to revere someone because i think they do, there is a bias. if you cannot see him without a beautiful realization. to washington doesn't have a change of heart but a change of priorities during the revolutio revolution. the argument is sometimes enslaved and the free black man fought during the revolution. he didn't want that he was very reluctant about it his right-hand man does always presented to the narrative because he is always been there and was representative of everyone rather than the exception. so what i wanted to do because it is present in his mind it is as important as anything else riding home to mount

vernon what is he concerned about? so for me, to be honest with his anxiety and priorities - - priorities it has to be full time. and want to smash a bunch of micro histories into one biography but the thing is washington is it i wish you would have done this but understanding why he ultimately did the thing that he did. he could have pulled his land we called them planters which is misleading they are a plantation owner which is a forced labor camp because he

gained when he fought for the british. and they had just given him the permission that they wanted. and so that is important to think about it saying that's not quite true. i can't do this. if you wanted to be the person who that he could have. people say he had no examples there were people in virginia because other slave masters were terrified of this.

but then also to talk about it is a big move from my side. he passed the buck to her and left her in a vulnerable position. she ended up doing the inevitable for what she didn't want to see and be responsible for separating families forever. >> how many people were enslaved in mount vernon? >> it fluctuated. martha was married before and to children from a previous marriage. the estate had over 130. washington inherited when he was 11. and then it was sold to him.

and then that number swelled 215 by the time he died. with washington as a slaveholder it when i talk about it in those terms most of the time to the people that he enslaved and that radically change how you think about these men. and how they must have thought about themselves. it wasn't a salon every day. sign up through sundown most days thinking at some point

during the day when you have the discipline. i don't know if i have a question. >> i think there is something worthwhile just thinking about it and washington always has he was so impressive speech but to maximize profit and labor to make sure he was applying that. and then to do important work all the time they were messy and drama queens and they thought themselves to be better. on a sunday washington would make enslaved people row boats and race across the potomac. that's on a sunday.

i want to know if you went to church but also he did that. >>. >> john adams a disciple of the enlightenment is much different at the heart of the movement to unmask superstitions and to call to pay on - - cultivate independence of thought. john adams held the desire for fame to be found in every heart. and then to worship the

riches. this has been identified the danger of the cult of personality. the cult of personality is when it is equated with the nation so we the people as the soul of the body politics. looking up close and personal first in france than franklin seduced the educated elite. to understand the desire among human beings he was in unforced spectator ship than it was the opposite the fear of obscurity and insignificance. and for andy warhol everyone wants 15 minutes of fame he

places the danger of that elation at the center of his constitutional fears. often the most superficial he explained riches and beauty and societies invariably invariably invited into classes they use the same method in marketing candidates and a prominent nam name, a glamorous reputation and if that wasn't enough flattery and quackery we keep supporters mesmerized. to understand to go as far back as 1790. those impulses emerge in all government republicans one - -

republics and democracies alike to reward ambition cannot avert the mad scramble for public recognition. but he went further. group psychology of the illustrious view. since they would never take the stage to live vicariously through their idols. by curious is his word that they have a special kind of sympathy for the powerful not just corrupt politicians on inflated reputations we document these things in our book. they are not selectively drawn so they resonate with the current political scene which

a lot of people think and forget we started researching this book long before the current political scene. [laughter] americans tell themselves a value independent thinking and in the light and sense of that phrase. but citizens still swoon over the rich and famous. and then to extrapolate from this. that mob mentality is a dangerous force. contained within democracies. and party organizers from alexander hamilton forward to find a way to exploit imaginary bonds and their leaders. in the first presidential election in 1788, 89, hamilton made sure that they withhold their vote for adams but new

englanders might steal the election from washington. from hamilton's perspectiv perspective, there can only be one star and one king. and with the trappings of loyalty and was housed in a grand mentioned. to make two grand national tours the king of england his birthday was a national holiday. visiting dignitary said the treasured portraits of washington much like they were shipped icons of the state. looking at the cult of washington to use a satirical skill.

and the most important trait was to emphasize his handsome face. next his tall stature. six with 3 inches. it was evident in his elegant forming graceful movements and largest state. and a man of few words it was joked they adored him because geese are all swans. we know it to be true voters take manufactured qualities in a character. adams of course by comparison to washington acquired the

nasty nickname of his rotunda the. [laughter] and in the election of 1800. the political gamesmanship by the time the second adams in the presidential contest when then secretary of state john quincy adams was seeking the presidenc presidency, a cartoon capture the so-called foot race that to this day that this is relevant because tonight is the kentucky derby. [laughter] in the cartoon john quincy adams and justin the military

uniform coming up fast. and then to stand at the front of a crowd cheering on his son while spectators place wagers on the avatar. this is democracy at its worst. election campaign is an about philosophy or policy the excitement is what matters most. in 1828 and not only running against our natural hero but a far better organized jackson party machine. and then jackson's election-year guru building on hamilton's playbook and then to mold him into the air of the noble washington.

to be imperious and impulsive and blustering and autocratic. with a lavish campaign biography. his arbitrary behavior as a cardinal virtue. and then the incumbent adams was overly cerebral. john quincy adams concluded that johnson's followers of seek we as champions of executive power. and that was a worrier cult of conduct democracy was a smokescreen western expansion drove politics slaveholders

would expand to the pacific. it was a union of land speculators and southern slaveholders. john quincy adams elected to congress 1830 after the one term presidency ended. it was an unusual move never to be repeated. remained in the house until his death in 1848. parties ruled. it was quite design military was sanctimonious calls with southern democrats to purchase auxiliary support from the men of the north. jackson, head of the democratic party jefferson small government party now with executive power.

and john quincy adams as a princely air comfortable with titles and rituals and long serve as a diplomat. somehow like his father before him with a secret promoter of monarchy. the cult of personality and often voters didn't care. but a slaveholding oligarchy took hold of the presidency along with the illusion of what textbooks call jacksonian democracy.

>> he was the architect of the constitution, the architect of the bill of rights, he was crucial to the establishment of the government under the constitution. he was president during the first war under the constitution. and did magnificent or at least very well. at the end of his presidency john adams who is a sour figure and not into making compliments easily he wrote james madison administration covered itself and more glory than any predecessor. which is a great complement because his predecessor was washington and jefferson and adams himself. [laughter] i do think he has been underappreciated. i know five years of labor

doesn't sound like fun but discovering things and being able to put into a form that i hoped would reach a wide audience. the book is called reconsidering james madison's life. >> what was the most important contribution. >> it would have to be the constitution. i think he was a genius. because he was the kind of genius he had he could break through conventional thinking. and everybody thinks he did that in the case of the staff of the great republicans which we switch what we are. conventional wisdom is to have a great republic of people voting for representatives for

themselves. and that it would be too loose and to fall apart monarch a call power. madison thought that was not true. and that the danger in the republic is that one faction will dominate and oppress everyone else. madison's geniuses to see that if you have many factions as there would be in a larger public, the no single one could become oppressive. and that was the rationale for the constitution produced in philadelphia. what nobody else believed time and again to transform the world by doing it. >> talk about like george

washington. >> sometimes we think the founders are sitting around having a polite conversation. but it's much more interesting to realize, the people and then defy to make it succeed. in the beginning jefferson was the first chief lieutenant. when the constitution began and the aid produced a 72 page disaster. and so then he asked please come to mount vernon. he will and then the leaders

of the congress wrote congresses response to madison. [laughter] he wrote the congress response why should reply back. [laughter] it is just hard to imagine how his voice would echo off of every wall. now that there hasn't been another time in history where one man has been so influential at the beginning of the administration the way madison was the beginning of washington. >> talk about the constitutional convention. there were battles and it took a long time many hours and

days of work to put it together. >> it was the same that we all learned in the same history books. of course the big states wanted to be represented proportionate according to population the small state wanted different. madison always out there should be proportional representation across the board. he went to the constitutional convention thinking the great threat to the public were the states because they were so irresponsible under the confederation, repressing religious freedom but now to

churn out money and then this is what rhode island did is that made it necessary for merchants to accept that depreciated money for debt incurred. so then you get the penny on the dollar and estates were taxing one another and oppressing one another and conducting their own foreign policy. so madison thought the states needed to be controlled. when it turns out the compromise do not be proportionately in the senate. it took him a couple of days to get around to accepting that. >> and making them believe he needs a vice president. [laughter] >> that is still the question. isn't it? [laughter] it had to do with the electoral college.

and that the congress choose the president just think how different they would have been? he would not have gotten ronald reagan you would have plenty of speakers at the house to be come president. secf

votes would then become vice president. and that seemed like a pretty good idea. but then they started worrying what is it going to do. [laughter] >> it's so interesting to see how this thing has built up. they decided he needed a job and they would make him president of the senate. by the end of the constitutional convention, there were two delegates that were so worried about the vice president, the creature of the executive branch being president of the senate, part of the legislative branch,

about his violating the separation of powers two delegates and randolph of virginia, two delegates, sorry, and george mason of virginia specifically cited the vice presidency as reasons they wouldn't sign the constitution. during the course of his career in terms of implementing the constitution would be the best way to describe it, alexander hamilton became an important player in all that. can you talk about what it was that led to their major disagreements and confrontation? >> it's important to understand he and hamilton were not buddies

but they were friendly colleagues. they wrote the federalist papers together a bi day doesn't seem impossible, but the papers writing philosophy and politics and writing and effort to convince people to support the constitution as the speed they

were putting the beginning parts into it often before they were finished. so, that madison and hamilton who respected one another until hamilton became secretary of the treasury under george washington and began to make his financial plans clear. madison was troubled from the beginning, but eventually particularly when the issue of establishment of a national bank came up, he was deeply concerned. he didn't think the bank was a bad idea. but at the constitutional convention he said it was such a good idea that at the constitutional convention he had proposed giving the congress the power to grant charters which is what you need it if you wanted to establish a bank. however it turned that opportunity down. congress didn't have that power and if tha that was madison's p.

hamilton was simply running roughshod over this strict member of powers congress had been given. there was no power to grant charters and therefore, madison thought you shouldn't establish a bank. he lost the fight, but he went on to kind of thing before i guess you could say. he established the first oppositional political party. and parties didn't have any better reputation than they do now. civic and this is counterintuitive. if said the parties were divisive and noisy. madison said yes we do. a government without opposition is a little more than a monarchy. so, he organized the first party in order to change the way hamilton was trying to carry the government.

he managed to get jefferson elected in 1800 he was a small government guy. >> we have our two nominees and positions held to teach a campaign, first of all, he has one problem to deal with, he's got the support of the populist party but they nominated their own base presidential running mate so he has a complicated problem that he's got to somehow

they have a million votes in 1892. he wants to take the democrats that voted and put them with the populists who voted for the general and james weaver and thereby think the republicans. but he's now got a democratic running mate and populist running mate and the issue of how do i get that off the ticket in battleground states. but he decides he's going to storm the country in a way that he hasn't before. he has three major trips that he makes across the country. this is the first time that's happened to go on a big gathering of some sort but the number of times they spoke on the road to less than a dozen.

there's been a campaign in eight teen 88 but had about 80 speeches that he gave over the course of a four-month period but nobody had ever done what they did which is get on a train and go someplace. it's an amazing testament to his courage and endurance because most days he is making reservations in a common car driving a sandwich someplace and hoping that he got to the end of the line somebody would pick thehimup into the hotel reserva. sometimes he's got a private car. he makes a trip through kentucky, tennessee up to washington, d.c. in late

september. but sometimes in the middle of the populist campaign. he writes to the chairman of the democratic national committee senator jones of arkansas and says you've got to get a private car i saw this with my own eyes he took a train to baltimore because they wanted to be at this junction in delaware at 8:00 in the morning. we'd waited until 8 a.m. to switch trains and rather than catching the express there were a handful of people. if you have a private car, you can fall asleep where you are, the train will pick them up in the middle of the night, wash his face, get a meal but he's traveling. traveling. >> said he's going everywhere. what does mckinley do?

>> once the panic sets in, it is unstoppable. by late july and early august he is beginning to believe we have a race on our hands. mckinley assisted him i can't do that. if i go on the road he's going to get on a trapeze and i will have to mimic him. i've been on the road before. i know what it's like. finally he says i've got to think before i speak. so people are showing up and they say let's make that my routine only lets get it organized so they don't simply show up on my doorstep and say we are here to see you. what invite the people we want to have so it's not just the people who want to volunteer,

but let's have them come if it is a group from a critical state lets have them say what they want to say and figure out what i'm going to say each time i show up we will have a manifestation and take them under to the courthouse square and have all kinds of entertainment to keep them occupied and when the moment comes i need with the last delegation they can then come along and have an organized program and say what they want to say. i will thank them for coming and then we go on to the next room. this becomes a campaign on an industrial scale. 750,00750,000 people come to can ohio. they come in groups of varying sizes and show up at the station. they go to the town square, the women go shoppingwith them and

pic, the men pickup some cigarss do well in town. sometimes the community takes special groups and feeds them at the tabernacle. they have beer and a sandwich and iinto fewer dry you get a cf coffee and a sandwich. it is industrial and scale that it's unitized debate or unified and deliver it. it's tailored to the individual audience and repeated back when they go home. which of these two men do you think address people? >> two to 3 million. he would go everywhere but he attracted spectators and mckinley attracted supporters, people who went to see, it was targeted at 14th it the campaign was based around this principle

they want an army of people who will serve as surrogates and advocate. they organized everybody. they had groups from blacks and women and organized traveling salesman, the commercial club because these were people who traveled wisely, spoke well and knew lots of people that there is a craze sweeping the country. country. although for falling into with great excitement excitement >> tell us what happens on election day. >> he wins the mideast. there isn't a single county that goes. he wins 75% of the votes and they are critical state, new york, new jersey, connecticut, ohio, indiana. he wins most of the battleground states and hoped to win nebraska

and kansas. he loses the south as expected all the seats in the confederacy fall though several of them are close and the critical breakthrough is from delaware, maryland, west virginia and kentucky where they haven't won in decades and he loses missouri where the chances are hurt by the division between the republicans and then he takes organ with 51% of the vote which nobody as for grant in 1872 and wins the majority it brings the conversation of the voters particularly for the next 36 years. the white house for 28 and

senate for 30 and the only time they lose power is when they divide among themselves as they do in 1912 with more governors and legislators than we do until today and the major cities during this time are routinely republican boston, philadelphia, baltimore, chicago, st. louis because mckinley has created this new coalition of industrial workers and small-town farmers that have their own farms and the traditional small-business allies of the republican party as was the union veterans and it becomes an unstoppable coalition for decades. >> you credit him with political creativity and foresight it was

became republican and he thought them back. i think those would be the two that i would take more than anyone else.

>> it turned out to be in this dark period when people are turning on their tvs and seeing the politicians that they trust when we lost the first for india's mom and what they called the energy shortage people were beginning to think about america and how we could solve big problems and call the leaders to

account and create a foreign policy that wasn't involved givingetting into another vietnd conserve energy and there was kind of a struggle at the same time. and ronald reagan kind of road on the way fans began telling people they didn't need to worry about it, not watergate wasn't a problem and that they were not criminals at harvard. by the time of the bicentennial which is the ultimate chapter of the book

c-span: here's something you never see in this country and that is a president testified before congress and gerald ford after the pardon. >> i wonder anybody have brought the attention that even though somebody is impeached that person shall nonetheless be liable to punishment according to the law. >> i was fully cognizant that it was accountable in the churches but i would like to say that the reason i gave the part was not.

i repeat the purpose of the parties to try to get the united states to congress, the american people focusing on the serious problems we have both at home and abroad. >> that is riveting stuff, so symbolic of the period that i'm writing about. he had this terrible luck. this is the guy that is th guide best athlete has anyone we have had a case to pick it that he was damned if he did and if he didn't. he is desperate to be seen as transparent and open and transcendent with richard nixon and the subpoena to testify about the pardon. instead of being celebrated for

his openness, no one trusted him to get everyone assumes the public has no faith in their institution or their leaders that this kind of midwestern guy. c-span: you said some strong things there. what did you think of him? >> guest: i think that he was doing the best he could in an almost impossible situation. i think that he promised something he couldn't deliver. what he promised was the end to division. when he gave that famous speech heralded by the abundance and is almost utopian. but faced with the burdens of governance, he basically looked just as the last guy and then in

the bicentennial eu approach people were skeptical whether america should have or could have a birthday party after the problems we've been facing. he said i think that we have healed america. this kind of belief that we can somehow heal and write our divisions into problems with the books is a promise politicians can't deliver as a promise -- barack obama made and wasn't able to deliver. c-span: and i want to go to the last chapter. chapter 32. what happens at the end?

>> guest: they say that he's too old to run for president and they've made to do. c-span: >> guest: in the galleries i withdrew the quote because she pointed out to me quite generously she said a couple of weeks before that and changed her mind after a speech. c-span: we will show you several pieces of the video fort the first one is by and gerald ford is calling ronald reagan to the podium. at this stage, what's happened? >> guest: ronald reagan has made this underdog challenge and this was the last convention which the outcome wasn't predetermined. no one knew how it was going to

go with a nominee in 1976. then he probably would have lost with jimmy carter and history would have turned out differently. but basically his people have done a good enough job that day when certain conditions of the platform. bob dole has chosen as the running mate and after gerald ford gives his acceptance speech, he beckons and his way up in the nose david c. and keen says why don't you come give a

speech. nancy reagan among others propagated that it was spontaneous and there was a wonderful book that told a behind the scenes story of the campaign by someone still active in washington, victor gold. c-span: he used to work for spear arachnid. >> guest: he has detailed reporting of the negotiations that went into making it look like ronald reagan was giving a spontaneous speech but actually giving the speech that was choreographed.

c-span: lets look at the first part of this where he is calling on ronald reagan to the stage and then i will get your reaction. [cheering] ♪ shouting into the microphone whawould you come down and bring nancy. come on down. c-span: that is the chancellor and also david brinkley on the screen. with what's going on here? >> guest: this is where he

finally kind of winds the crowd accolade and the crowd support was so loud he says okay i'm going to do it. and supposedly she said i don't even know what i'm going to say. and then he gets up and gets one of the great grand slams of history. bob dole had a terrible primary because the two sides were so angry at each other that at one point they broke out after nelson rockefeller and one of the people resolve the phone from the publication. it was an unbelievably chaotic convention. c-span: the next ste step and ts will go to gerald ford introducing and ronald reagan beginning to speak at the

convention. >> we are all a part of this great republican family that will give the leadership to the american people to win novembe november 2. i would be honored on your behalf to have my good friend, governor ronald reagan say a few words. [applause] [cheering] c-span: obviously they didn't have a teleprompter yet. >> guest: he was an amazing speaker. people were amazed how he could get a half-an-hour commercially installed at 30 seconds. he had this ability to see and

deliver exactly what would create the greatest emotional energy. c-span: [inaudible] >> i'm going to see fellow republicans here but those watching from a distance, all those millions of democrats and independents who i know are looking for a cause around which to rally. [cheering] >> confidence in the face of a party when 18% of americans are identifying themselves as republicans and the political genius to say we can bring democrats. the people when the audience ink like they are at a religious revival. people are holding hands, spraying, gerald ford gives a speech but reagan gave a great speech.

in fact one of the people is by speaking agencies when he says he finished the book, this ability to kind of illicit motion to people who don't see it coming is one of his most astonishing political gifts. c-span: here is more of ronald reagan actually speaking. ..

[applause] he is declaring victory talking about this is a platform a lot of great gorilla flight the on - - gorilla fighting and in fact when he says this is truly a platform gender language would not be acceptable say he is referring to the speech at the 1975 cpac that says we need

party not of the democrats so it's him saying to his supporters you can say you have one but we have one the future that the other being here is him reaching out to democrats in the first we are familiar with the phrase reagan democrats that the working-class voters who were alienated within the civil rights movement and feminist movement to be pulled into the republican tent was another of his geniuses. and the fact that he seizes the moment to strike a new vision of the republican party for the future and that this

shows. >> really had one other father-son president john adams and john quincy adams nearly quarter of a century , 24 years between the presidency of those two men. john adams is in the last 16 months of life when john quincy adams and a three days stage coach ride from

washington so he really wasn't able to be in washington or any type of influence on the presidency. bad george h.w. bush he was just there eight years before and he really had an influence on his son's life. this is a story that needed to be told. and that you george w. bush agreed to do the book i'm not sure if he would say yes or not. he took the meeting and i was shocked at the beginning of the meeting he said this is a story that needs to be told and you're the guy to do it. he put his feet up on the desk and took the unlit cigar and started talking about his dad.

and i realized there was so much to him it was a mystery about his father like his early years when he went to war as an 18 -year-old world war ii and then to realize there was some purpose that he was spared and his friends were not. he decided to forgo a family wall street and then went to odessa became a husband at 21 and a father soon after and lost his second child, a daughter before he was 30 amazing years assured early into manhood. george w. bush really hadn't talked it was a lot about it.

is a wonderful privilege to get this in the way they were willing to tell it. >> for those that have the historic throw away they are not particularly given to reflection and they rejected very much in the moment they rejected the idea of the dynasty how did you get them and what are your favorite stories for your favorite interview to get them to reveal? because they are remarkably candid and unfiltered comments. some language we cannot use in public but you got them to be reflective and candidate on - - and candid. >> i like the intimacy and in

some ways they were revealing things about each other the others did not know his dad said i did not know that. and then to be circumspect george w. bush would get a perspective would say this is psychobabble in them and tell me something that was revealing. one conversation with george h.w. bush was very small office in kennebunkport and it was just the two of us and the legs were touching on the desk and what he would have done in iraq if he was president when his son was president. this is pretty heavy stuff.

with 41. and he said what we would have done that. it's hard to tell but i think so. it is an iconic stage in his life. so as an answer from a former commander in chief for committee was to protect his son? i think he was being protective at that moment thinking about his son's actions he was being protective. >> the extraordinary loyalt loyalty, this isn't kennedy don't cry that love really is a word that they used a lot and the family values.

that only the politically expedient way but the real family values talk about unconditional love from his father character in service in humility really matter. civility matters the responsibility that comes with power all that comes from prescott bush. have you take that tradition in the family and contrast with the values that we see because it is dramatically different. >> there is a family eat those it is comparable in prescott bush as you mentioned stands for civility and decency to put service above self that was something past through. george h.w. bush talks about the lessons learned his father

was a great influence and i'm not sure he ever felt like he measured up to his dad which is remarkable for the 41st president to say. he talks frequently about his mother and she say don't brag. i don't care how many homeruns you hit what did the team do so that humility is the hallmark not just from our commander in chief but public discourse in the age of social media to self aggrandize. to talk about that relationship of father-son , great story the other bush told me about being with his son in midland.

apparently he erupted in a fit of temper about something and george w starts flailing almost cartoon style like a windmill. 360 degrees. and his dad keeps him at bay by just putting a palm on his forehead and then stops and then they walk along again. [laughter] so in a way it is a metaphor with a young and reckless stage of george w. bush because trying to land a blow with his dad and ultimately they walked on. it wouldn't bring of the ill tempered moment.

>> but especially on the fathering and parenting there are some details in the book and to lead by example walking of a summer job a couple days earlier when you tell the story it made a big impression in terms of parenting style he worked in west texas and made a considerable amount of money i agreed to work for eight weeks walked off the job in the seventh week because he wanted to spend time with his girlfriend he goes to see his dad and he said you didn't honor the commitment that you made. i'm disappointed in you.

george w bush that he is disappointed his father that is his greatest weapon to talk about how disappointed he was at any given point. he wasn't emotional he never yelled or hit his kids but that expression of disappointment was the best thing he could do to send a mission to say straighten up that happens and he leaves his father's office and gets a call later that afternoon and say come to the astor stand tonight i have a couple of tickets he expresses disappointment but also back into the fold and that face to ultimately do the right thing. >> that is the story.

h to be ways in. and barbara bush takes them out to dinner at that .16 years old up in kennebunkport to say this never happens and it was a an intervention. you smoke. what are you doing smoking? george h w says you smoke to. [laughter] and then the subject dies. [laughter] >> you can't yell at somebody for doing what you do yourself. there is amazing interview it

really is extraordinary in the book but what is rejected in the idea he was ever a prodigal son. >> there are a lot of misconceptions about george w. bush and the relationship with his father but the expedient narrative one who never expected to amount to anything and certainly not the political heir apparent that's dead wrong. and actually he was quite auspicious. and i have to clean up the language but i drank a lot of whiskey i was never prodigal because i never left my family. he never did he always embraced his family. so the fact he made it on his own that's what you're almost

expected to do as a bushes make it on your own to achieve some success on your own and then to make your own mark and once you can provide for your family, you can put something above herself. ultimately george w. bush does that. but his family never leaves him he always love and respects and admires him. some people realize he's not as rebellious as he thinks he was. >> why do you think a survey of the presidents is valuable?

>> to me looking the last few days preparing for today i thought it was striking. the pattern that jumped out at me when i saw it how the modern presidents are treated the 12 presidents who have served since world war ii, 12 out of 43. one out of four those are represented very heavily at the top tier. seven out of the top 15 are modern. and there they were. we just wonder if there was stuff built in that thinking

about it to represent something more and how that presidency has changed modern presidents are in fact much more consequential than early presidents. none of the 32 presidents that served before the post world war era ever had to deal with the labor war and the prospect of people being killed with a nuclear exchange in a couple of hours. to deal with the global power to deal with international immigration at the level we do now. there was newspapers and publicity and then to deal with the television age.

so as a result they really are more consequential how someone like james garfield or rutherford hayes were challenge the way modern presidents are come it's very interesting to think about. but they weren't. with a different era that jumped out at me. >> in a lot of ways the survey is a mirror of our times. and you see a lot of sensitivity toward issues of race and inclusion and then at the survey in 1948, johnson

was 1933 doing okay. people have become much more conscious of his racist policies to abandon the freed slaves after the civil war and henry jackson who was a significant president has taken a lot of heat for both action as a slaveholder and slave trader but also to the indian tribes that was quite ferocious as a military figure and then off to the west. it tells us a lot about who we are or think we are or want to be. it was the risk there was in a story why we have so many modern presidents that it is

right. i'm not so sure it is right. it reflects we are self obsessed and those like andrew jackson who are important change the country but then acquired 40 percent of the landmass. and that is a problem we have our memories are not as good as they should be and it's a reminder to those of us that right history to preach the sermon a little bit to keep the stories alive. >> to see them all together did anything surprise you as you read it as one book? >> yes. the most important thing i

learned is how much i had forgotten. and the beauty is you can go back and read what they had to say and the student says the archive allows you to listen to the interviews i listened to both that i had done of these gentlemen in preparation and they were fantastic not because of me but because of them. >> some look at as a book of presidents but i look at it like the fabulous historians we don't get enough credit to to spend weeks or years going over the details. we don't have historians we don't have this kind of information. and listening to these guys they have stories to tell.

>> and the assassination was one of the most misunderstood event events? >> a couple of things. first the man who shot james garfield arguably he was killed by the doctors he was hit by two bullets one graces are made in the back there are a lot of people that live to tell the story that garfield died of infection and then examined without washing her hands are not using clean instruments the theory existed but it was a new idea from france not totally adopted.

but most doctors on the western frontier from civil war knew that you don't examine a wound with your unwashed hands. there was dirt and it should not of happened. the other thing i will mention briefly and what is different from the others with the purpose of the assassination. john wilkes both one - - booth shot lincoln to kill lincoln one shot john kennedy to kill kennedy but what charles was trying to do he had nothing personal against james garfield. he liked him he was trying to reverse the election of 1880

not trying to get garfield out of office but to put someone else in office and trying to make him and his circle of friends in the united states and that is a very scary thought if you think about it and he was successful to do that. >> abraham lincoln is ranked and james buchanan and johnson who came out on - - after him a the last two. how do you explain that? >> that is historical kryptonit kryptonite. you don't want to be next to him. [laughter] he had the greatest challenges of any person it's hard to look good after that.

but they were cosmically unsuccessful. it was tragic and johnson remade the nation after the war the historical reputation is a fascinating thing the first half of the 20th century he was celebrated to come back into the union and to heal the country and then finally around the 19 fifties people said there is a part of the country and that caused him decline is not the sort of thing the survey can correct for but it was a hard set of

problems. civil war is tough. we had several hundred thousand americans killed during the war comparable casuals one - - casualties they would be 7 million johnson had a hard job he did it poorly but it will one - - it was a really hard job. >> explaining those ten leadership qualities and wondering as we sit here in the museum if there was a category who were drink near the top of the bottom. >> i will be very quick though stories about each president one of my favorites is calvin coolidge during his time and

he did 22 speeches into the radio microphone if you remember his image it would have been traffic for television but it was okay for radio. during the time he was on radio the audience group. mike c-span with 3 million then we went up at 100 million he start off with very few radio stations and then had several hundred more and those stories exist with each president. >> i think kennedy charmed everybody but he charmed the press because he had the press corps into his office once a week he was at his desk and take questions he knew what

not to answer. but when you spend that much based on with the president come it's very effective to get them to pull punches. >> were very curious to see the current president when it comes around. [laughter] i agree kennedy and fdr, on the positive side that this has been a signature issue