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watch booktv on c-span2 this weekend. >> education weeks go by this reporter daarel burnette joins us now for conversation of the opening this fall. president trump has made it clear he wants schools open in the fall and pesco so far as to say last week he will cut off federal funding for schools that don't reopen. can you do that? >> by understand how that is no company would be very difficult for them to do that. the biggest thing is that most of their funding has been sent out for the school year. the second thing is congress controls the purse strings and so they have created rules around exactly when money gets in a come how much money gets sent out and exactly what school districts need to do to receive

money. the last thing is that if congress decides to provide more bailout money for school districts, they would have to write, they would have to agree to give the strings to betsy devos to decide when to dole out when and how to give any extra money out. my extent is no. one of the things i want to point out though is federal money is targeted toward low income schools. what betsy devos and donald trump are basically saying is we don't want to give already underfunded schools more money from you talk of additional federal dollars and how much is in the cares act for schools and what is being proposed in the heroes act that democrats are talking about and other plans that are being pushed right now for future additional aid. >> guest: so the cares act money, under the cares act, school districts got about $13 billion which is really a drop in the bucket.

school districts been about $700 billion a year. that. that money was really targeted toward -- the one school district to spend that money on last years extra cost. we had to shut down schools in march come purchasing laptops for kids, by wi-fi, et cetera. the heroes act which is what's been proposed in the house, which has passed the the houset would provide about $60 billion for schools. again, not enough. most districts or most education advocates missing are saying td need around $200 billion to reopen schools. right now senator lamar alexander who is the senate education committee, he's talking about possibly providing 60-$70 60-$70 billion for schools and that money would really be wgeared toward reopening costs such as ppe, transportation, et cetera, school district did you

pay their staff. so the reopening costs might help but billy what districts need is enough money to basically survive the school year. what i should would emphasize that federal dollars are only 10% of school funding. the vast majority of schools will local and state aid and state aid has plummeted. >> host: we show this article in the last segment when we talk about school reopens. in early june report from association of school administrators reopening means an additional $1.8 million in cost of the average size school district.ch there other numbers are out there. can you type into those numbers a bit? >> guguest: short. reopening, talk to several administrators abouter some of e logistical challenges and financial challenges in reopening. the aasa or the superintendent

association estimate was for district theze size of 13,000 students, about $2 million and o they and they are talking about just like the hardware of opening schools. ppe equipment which at that time there were estimating masks cost about one dollar each but with the recent infections bike masks come because of the short of ppe equipment, masks are costs about two to three dollars now so i actually think they are, they might have underestimated how much it would cost. some of the other big costs are plexiglass, trying to reduce class sizes which you have to hire more teachers and more professionals in the schools to do. if you want to do social distancing, three or 60, you would basically have to go out and rent more facilities. you would have to take the kids

to the local stadium would have to take them to the local convention center, et cetera, in order to conduct classes and at all cost more money. i havear heard more recent estimates it which like these numbers can really climb into two, $3 million for disappear i talked to the level schools can and he was saying with a district with 100,000 kids, with masculinity would have to spend $10 million. the big fear for school to six after my purchase all this equipment, there would be an outbreak and now the equipment is sitting in a facility somewhere and they can't use it. basically a waste of tax dollars. >> host: daarel burnette reporter to answer your questions when it comes to school reopens in the financing of that process and what online learning might look like. phone lines -- daarel burnette,

as folks are calling and you were just talking about potential to hiring more teachers, yet this was the headline, the store you put out just this week, thousands of educators being laid off already due to covid-19, and more expected. >> guest: yeah, this is the thing that nobody will talk about right now. districts are really on the cusp of recession in which more than a quarter of their funding could basically evaporate. we are already seeing a handful of states, massachusetts, michigan, nevada right now, their legislatures talk about cutting a quarter of their funding of $125 million this fiscal year. that's a quarter of the funding which would lead to mass layoffs. i still we haven't really seen historically. typically, school districts,

they are pushing against the economic headwinds but i have counted more than half school district are heavily reliant on state sales and income tax revenue. now that the economy has effectively shut down and in the last couple of weeks effectively shut down again, so effectively shut down twice in the last six months although, we are going to see budget cuts at a skill that we have really never seen. once congress in their session next week, we will start seeing legislatures reconvene and start cutting budgets and counting big chunks out of the budgets weeks before the school year starts, possibly after the school year starts. we could possibly see midyear layoffs which i think can be very traumatizing for our community. they could be academically destructive for students. >> host: when you're talking layoffs, talking to these

districts what are theyre tellig the teachers? are they saying these are temporary or permanent cuts? >> guest: they are telling them that if congress decides to give the extra money they might be able to rehired in fact, otherwise she should go and try to find another job. >> host: daarel burnette with education week taking your calls this morning. cameron is up first out of charlotte michigan a parent. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i am a grandparent. i just want to make the comment did, listen to this young man talk about the billions that he made for the school districts may ask for from cargoes or try to get from congress and the disparity, in decimal number in the trillions trillions being given to corporations that, they didn't even bat an eye on, or dumped that in first week of the situation. now with in the midst of this terrible, horrible social experiment they're running us through, they want to send our

children back to school withoutt giving you folks enough money to job?e i'm just pointing this out as a disparity. i'm sure it's probably striking anybody else as being ila parent, too. but golly, talk to billions and have already thrown out 3 trillion, $5 trillion from congress? >> host: daarel burnette who else is pointing out that disparity? >> guest: yeah, i talked to the superteam superintendent in last week about potential layoffs, teacher layoffs and he decided to furlough himself this summer to avoid teacher layoffs. his reasoning i thought was pretty interesting. this was in adrian michigan which is a rural college town in michigan. the school district there is the third-largest employer, and that town has a 30% unemployment rate. and so once school districts start laying people off, this

will have a compound in effect on the economy. innocence that could also -- they could in effect and resolve this in the last recession. it could spark another recession. this is one of the things a lot of people are not really thinking holistically about, the role of schools have picked their future employers. they employ around 7 million people, 3.5 million teachers. in some towns, in some cities in america they are the largest employer. not only teachers work in schools, , paraprofessionals, custodians, administrators, afterschool care workers, there's a whole workforce around schools. i think as this gentleman pointed out, there was a lot of focus right now on corporations and their survival. there is less focus on public schools but public schools are a very, they play a very, very central role in the economy. >> host: brenda, a parent.

how old are your kids? >> caller: migrate grandkids range from one, to 39. >> host: what is your concern about schools this fall? >> caller: my concern is kids with asthma and various medical conditions going back to school. schools in michigan i know a lot of them don't have air conditioning. the climate in there is hard for children to breathe with the masks on. i'm concerned that the masks they are teaching the children right now, have the parents don't understand because they change it to other countries waste of math i think children should stay at home right now until they get this, everything under control. >> host: daarel burnette? >> guest: yeah, i mean, first of all, talking school facilities, the infrastructure of public schools is, there is a

crisis. i i mean, it's a long-running crisis. i think we've estimated about $1 trillion worth of maintenance cost. one of most concerning things about a recession is schools basically freeze upgrades to facilities and so all the schools that have water pump issues, , mildew in the schools, et cetera, all that gets put on the back water for schools to basically pay salaries instead. one of the things i wanted to point out as this lady, the great grandmother pointed out, schools have a difficult time -- school administrators have a difficult time from stopping kids from vaping in the bathrooms come from kissing always, from fighting in the hallways. so when we talk about schools try to keep kids apart, six feet apart all day long, it is very, very, very difficult.

i think this is one of the arguments that i think a lot of administrators have been making the last couple of weeks, and secretary betsy devos and donald trump have taken on this mission to reopen schools. i mean, the heart of america's public school system is local control. every town has a unique scenario. there are some towns in america, just talking about, some former coworkers in memphis where the infection rates there are 15, 20, 30%. they have people dying on a frequent basis and the fear of the coronavirus is very real, very tangible. there are some communities in america in which they have brand-new schools, fifth courtyards in which kids can work there. some areas of which the climate is cool all day long and they can take the kids outside and

classrooms outside and that is perfectly legit. so i think k-12 administrators have been arguing there should be a local decision. >> host: for viewers interested in that segment about failing infrastructure that daarel burnette was talking about, back in january 12 of 2018 actually not your first time on this program we had you on about three years ago almost to the day today back in 2017 talking about teacher evaluations, all of your appearances on this program available on our website at c-span.org. the search bar at the top of the page is your friend and you can find his and all of our guests appearances. susan, far rockaway new york, a pair. you are up next, good morning. >> caller: grandparent. a quick question. is there any way that the local school system can link up with online education whereby if you have to make up a least 180 days in the classroom, is it anyway they can link up?

because online is usually two years ahead of advance and if in the six grade you would get seventh and eighth grade education. this way the student can catch up not only that you could print out information and send it in on my rather than mailing it in? >> guest: yeah, so school districts did you online education in march am starting in march of last year and there were some bright spots. it was a lot of frustration amongst teachers and administrators, especially for the younger grades. i think that higher ed has really figured out online education. k-12 is light years behind higher ed. everything from not all students have access to wi-fi, that austin to access to laptop computers. my colleagues just told a months

ago not all teachers have access to wi-fi. we found teacher sitting outside of schools trying to connect to school buildings wi-fi. it is a big logistical hurdle. this summer a lot of schools have decided to go out and purchase more and approved software for online learning, and they're really trying to roll out more comprehensive online learning. but as my colleagues reporting has shown, it's not easy. it's very, very difficult and i think there's a growing consensus amongst k-12 communities that in person learning, with teacher standing in front of a child, works best. i think it's really interesting that secretary betsy devos six months ago was touting online learning. she was think that's the way of the future for k-12 and now she

is demonizing it. i think a lot of k-12 administrators are saying which one is it? but i think like everything in k-12, it's nuanced. there are some bright spots. there are potential areas of growth, but overall it's nowhere close to in person, as effective as in person learning is the one of the other things i wanted to point out, she pointed out printing out materials i was talking to administrators in madison, wisconsin, and last year because so many of the students do not have access to wi-fi or computers, they spent around $1 million printing out curriculum, and then they spent another $1 million delivering it to kids because they basically had to buy all the postage you

know, to put laptop computers and paper in the mail to parents. again, another very logistical expensive hurdle. $1 million is a salary of about ten teachers. >> you mentioned the virtual learning a betsy devos his comments about it six months ago versus recently. this was the president just last week at saint on twitter, now that we've witnessed at a large-scale basis, and first-hand, virtual learning has proven to be terrible compared to in school or on-campus learning. not even close. schools must be open in the fall. if not open, why would the federal government defending? it won't is what the president promised that you talked about the beginning of the segment he can't really take away funds from federal schools that already been appropriated and distributed. but what other carrots and sticks can the president and betsy devos used to get schools reopen besides the bully

pulpit and the bully twitter page? >> they have to work with congress. my colleague has talked to several experts about this. i think the department is scrambling to figure out how to actually do this. it's very, very complicated once you get into the legalities of the powers of the executive branch as over school funding. four years ago the federal government passed every student succeeds act and the big thrust of the law was defusing of the sect of education. there was a broad consensus under the obama administration that present in the secretary of education should not have oversight over america's schools. we had all conclude local control range. it's interesting that to the boss and donald trump have taken on this role of we want to dub

districts what they can and can't do and when they can't and can't open. because the vast majority of the tenure has been all about local control. to the point that administrator administrators, district administrators have been trying for leadership. six months ago when the coronavirus first began, the administrators had basically asked, they explicitly asked donald trump and betsy devos to tell them whether or not they should be open or closed. and betsy devos said it was a local decision, you decide. so you know, how things change. >> host: next out of fort wayne, indiana, a teacher. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'd like to ask a question about teachers pay. i am an adjunct instructor in my prospects for becoming full-time are getting very, very dim.

i'm wondering how you see that playing out in higher ed? and also does that proliferate through k-12 as far as teachers pay? thank you. >> guest: yeah, i mean, it's interesting call from indiana because teacher pay there has been an ongoing political crisis there with the governor, legislature, the teachers union. this is one of the things that my colleague and i have really kind of wracked our brains about because the political momentum behind teacher pay has come you know, again, eight months ago, nine months ago there was a huge movement. teachers decked in red,, thousands of teachers decked in red outside legislatures, outside indianapolis actually pushing state legislatures to increase teacher pay. there was a broad consensus

amongst the general public, not only the teachers, but the general public that teachers were under paid for the work that they do. teachers were getting paid 26, $27,000 per year. kindergarten, first, second great teachers, the teachers who met matter the most in kids lives. so now that he's states are dealing with these huge budget crisis, the first and is teacher pay. all of the initiatives to raise teacher pay are thrown out today. we were tracking actually which states were and were not going to increase teacher pay and we really -- we thought this would be the of which they would finally fork over millions come hundreds of billions of dollars it would cost for teacher pay. just raise it five, $6000. all those initiatives are gone now. i should point out that any district that does decide to raise teacher pay such as

denver, there are a handful of district in florida who are doing this now, all that money is coming out of the savings account. all that money will be gone next year, and that means the layoffs will be twice as bad as they would've otherwise been because you raise your teacher pay, teacher pay takes about 80% of your budget. you won't be able to afford those costs next year and as this gentleman probably knows, every year teachers line i do. next year they will have to be paid three, $4000 more than they are paid this year. this probably of district budgets. i haven't even talked about pension crisis which by march, you know, pensions had lost about $1 trillion and i because because the market have plummeted. pensions have recovered since but this is one of the areas in which states will try to skip the payment this year. that payment will cost even more next year.

the more you raise teacher pay, the more teachers that retire. this has a compound affect on how much states will have to dole out for school districts. >> host: one other factor here and you pointed out in a recent story, at education week, if viewers want to check it out, schools or police. in some cities reckoning and spending priorities. >> guest: i'm glad you brought that up because that's one of the things i find to be so fascinating about the black lives matter movement and the kinds of conversations this has sparked in several communities across the country. there are lots of communities who literally spend more on police than they do on schools. four years a lot of advocates in majority black school districts have been asking their mayors,

have been asking their city council, asking the county commissioners why are we spending 500, 600, $700 million more on million dollars more on police than we are on schools? in some communities, in a lot of committees police officers a paid more than teachers. teachers have one, two, three masters degrees and police have, they've been to the police academy. .. a lot of communities, rochester, new york, memphis, indianapolis, denver, seattle, let's take the money we are

giving to schools. one of the most concerning things i didn't touch on is we came across several districts that are laying off social workers, laying off counselors. these are people who are going to be doing the hard work when schools finally reconvene, to mitigate all the crises that come along with what communities have been through. thousands of people die of coronavirus, high unemployment rate. not police officers. a lot of communities are having a come to jesus moment about where our priorities are.

>> host: 20 minutes left with daarel burnette, 200-748-8000, educators 202-748-8001, all others, 748-8002. we will try to get to as many calls as we can. in colorado, good morning. >> i am a grandparent and i live in a multigenerational home and i'm also a custodian and i have been working as a custodian for five years. we have major problems getting custodians. i work in a brand-new store that is 3 years old now. the air-conditioning and the heating system doesn't seem to work properly. upstairs it is really hot. downstairs it is really cold, teacher has to bring in fans. besides that i'm wondering what they are going to do. when kids go to the bathroom they have to have somebody

outside the bathroom and on duty all the time to clean these bathrooms. probably one of the worst places for kids to pick up the disease. instead of going to the bathroom and saying 3 or 4 times a day in my shift, someone has to be posted outside to go in every 15 minutes. my wife is a schoolteacher on top of that retired. i used to work in heavy industry and needed things to do when i moved to colorado so i said they were having problems getting janitors, applied to be a janitor and we are shorthanded and i don't understand how they will reopen school's safely. i thank both of you for having an informed conversation. >> host: thank you. daarel burnette. >> guest: great call. that is one of the more

unexplored areas of this crisis. there has already been an outbreak in schools, in missouri they had summer school and they had kids, had an outbreak and had to shut the school down and for two weeks straight they had to wipe down that entire building and this is a financial, logistical, from a financial standpoint, hundreds of thousands of dollars on bleach. the superintendent in california has all these backpacks full of bleach and they can spray bleach across the school.

she has never even thought of buying, she is dying all the sequin and for bleach. we have to hire more janitors, most schools have one or 2 janitors on staff. we need 4, 5, six, seven janitors working overtime. overtime pay is what -- twice what we pay for regular costs. that is from the financial standpoint and from the political standpoint a lot of superintendents have told me you have to make parents feel safe enough to come back to school. we know -- asking parents you feel comfortable sending kids back, most parents say no. you have to get the school shiny. the lockers on the hallway floors, you have to spend a lot of money to make sure people feel safe enough to come back.

any outbreak in schools mean the school will have to shut all the way down, top to bottom cleaning, school districts have never tried to figure out and the focus is probably lice outbreak and -- lice outbreaks all the time. very very very hard and again this goes back to the concern a lot of administrators have. when you should school down because of an outbreak that is 2, 4, 3 weeks you are not in school. you have to go back to distance learning and then all those ppe

equal and not being used. talking about efficient use of tax dollars this is not the way. >> host: another outside the classroom area to explore, on twitter, my question nobody has asked, what about school buses. how are they going to social distance in a steel tube full of kids that a majority of bus drivers are retired. >> guest: we had a series on transportation. this is the one area school districts say we looked at the transportation costs - to quadruple their bus route in order to maintain 6 feet distance. you can only put 12 kids on a school bus, you can only bring so many kids to school.

to get kids to do kids walking to school because so many -- can't transfer all the kids to school so those who live 2 or 3 miles from school to walk to school based on volunteers. this is a legal logistical hurdle. this is going to cost 400,$000 for the first 6 months. in north carolina they were saying 6 feet distance on buses and you have 2 have somebody on the bus to temperature check kids getting on the bus so the district balked and said we can't do that so a couple weeks later the guidance disappeared and they said three feet distance was the concern a lot of administrators havee