university professor cornell west and at 9 pm eastern on "after words", this congress woman with her but use the power you have, around woman's guide to politics and change interviewed by democratic congressman jim heinz. watch book tv this weekend. >> can phillips joins us from legreenville south carolina, president of americans for prosperity. >> good morning. >> could you remind folks about yourorganization ? >> americans for prosperity is a nationwide grassroots organization with a staff and volunteers across the country and we focus on knocking down the barriers holding people back from living fulfilling lives and we talked government policy but sometimes it's issues like poverty and addiction that are out in the communities as

well. a lot of public policy as well. >> a bit about your funding if you might and only because people will ask are you directly affiliatedwith the coke brothers ? >> yes, we sure are. with charles coke, david coke passed away last year but yes , we are very much in affiliation and we're proud of that affiliation . >> when it comes to matters of policy one of the key ones taking place on capitol hill is the matter of a relief package. various price tags being thrown around from the senate and the house side and when it comes to those price tags, you have some concern about what's being suggested? >> we do. but congress has appropriated and the president signed into law trillions of dollars in spending already. much of that needed by the way. this is an unprecedented situation with the pandemic that has an economic hole

that is unprecedented in our nations history so much of that was needed, was necessary and we supported but at this point, it's difficult to justify another multi-trillion dollar spending bill. especially if it includes what the house version included back in late spring which is trillions of dollars from bailing out states and localities and that has nothing to do with the pandemic but more to do with their irresponsible spending and pension policies for many years. >> states will say in some cases because of school cost and because of testing costs and because of everything related to covid we need this physical health but you would fight against that. >> it's important to note they have received trillions sof dollars already and in fact several studies are out showing that hundreds of billions of those dollars already appropriated arestill in the pipeline . there still unspent and it's important that any legislation that congress passes the timely so that it

can help right away. be targeted specifically to the impact of this pandemic and the resulting return economic difficulties and then also temporary. we should not be now looking at long-term entitlements and new programs because we've got to focus on the here and now so that's what we've pushed for. it is important to note again there are hundreds of billions of dollars already appropriated that are unspent erthat are still available to these states and localities and so much of candidly what they're asking for and they've been open about this is not related to first g responders or hospitals or others. instead, it's simply for operating expenses that in many cases for many years they've been irresponsible in doing. so that's our focus at this point but there have been good things that the government has done getting rid of a lot of regulation and redtape.

done that in many respects to let healthcare providers for example save lives and they also through the paycheck protection program and other efforts like that that are targeted to small businesses have done good things as well. we just think at this point it doesn't make sense to spend trillions more. >> the house comes in at nine so you can talk to our guests and ask them questions until then you republicans 2027 48,001 and independence 24274 8002 and if you are wanting to text us you can do so at 748-8000 three. to fill us on the senate side one of the things themajority leader would like to see if this idea of liability protection . is that something, what would you think about that prospect of being included in legislation ? >> it's important to get some kind of liability protection for schools, or churches, synagogues, mosques, often

for small mom-and-pop businesses that are trying to survive and they know usthat an avalanche of lawsuits from personal injury lawyers are coming. so liability reform or protection is important to let these schools and to let these churches and mosques and synagogues and businesses able to open and provide the services and their communities to individual americans without that threat hanging over them that they are going to be relentlessly sued into bankruptcy. so we need to get thiseconomy going again . we need to help people get back to their normal lives. i'm out on the road a lot in south carolina, north carolina this week and americans want their normal rmlives back and one thing going back to normal is the threat that so many churches and schools and small businesses have of being sued into bankruptcy and being

wiped out by these pandemic related lawsuits that are coming unless there's some iskind of liability protection. >> as far as several states considering more stay-at-home orders are we really posing those,restricting against businesses ? would you advocate against that? where would you stand on? >> we urge government to be cautious. responsible but cautious. it's important to note that there is a healing cost to shutdowns as well. we've all seen the studies. the rise in depression, a rise in suicide, drug overdoses . a lot of children who are struggling with those as well. hunger issues because schools aren't in that the way they been before. so it's important to note that there is a cost in human terms to these fall shutdowns as well. and wwe also are looking at

states and a lot of folks are focusing on texas and florida but the state with some of the fastest-growing infection rates is the state it's been shut down most stringently for the longest period of time, certainly among the longest times and that's california so there is no single approach that seems to be working for better than others seso we would urge caution at the state level and we think the administration has done the right thing by not having one-size-fits-all policy on shutdowns or other measures from washington dc because what's happening in nebraska is very different than new york. what's happening in oregon is different from what's happening in georgia so these dates and localities know best what to do and how to protect their citizens while still getting the economy going so i do think the administration deserves credit for not imposing a draconian dc-based one-size-fits-all policy.co

thit would have probably gotten good, good coverage but it would have been the wrong thing to do, too heavy-handed so they've done a good job letting states and localities make those decisions. >> when it comes to the response of another coronavirus relief package being considered have you heard directly from the white house or senate republicans about this and have you had a chance to share your views ? >> we've been speaking to the white house on a consistent basis and to the senate, a lot of senate republicans especially since they were in the majority on that side. and there is some disarray on the senate and white house side. there's just no question about that but it's more important for them to get it right and to try and rush something in order to meet a deadline that they've set or to try to speed it through too quickly because again,

often you can do thewrong thing that can end up hurting the country and limiting our ability to get this economy going again . while dealing with this pandemic so we have been in talks with them and what we urged them to do is number one project house plan, that pelosi built the $3 trillion was stuffed full of a christmas tree list of unrelated to the pandemic ideological measures spending . i've had those bailouts we talked about earlier for states and localities and just as an example illinois which has one of the most chronically underfunded pensions in the country if not the worst. they would openly say we want this bailout money to shore our pensions t. that's not fair to states like wisconsin and indiana very close to illinois in past years have bitten the bullet and actually funded their pensions. that's not fair to them so we are glad that that's dead on arrival. that's important as a first step. a this and there's a lot of

talk about education money. you mentioned schools earlier, that's a vital concern. i have moms and dads earlier talk about that in the carolinas about their concern and the worry that they need to get the children and again a responsible way back into school. but any education money, let's let it follow the families. families are having tough decisions to make about what to do with their children, whether to go ahead and go along with public school plans that are being formulated or perhaps whether to go with homeschooling or the private option so this is a difficult time for parents. let's make sure any education funding follows the parents wishes either as stipends or the ability with education accounts to let them make more of those decisions rather than again washington just throwing a bunch of money at public schools. >> we have calls lined up in the first one on ourdemocrats line . tonya is first with tim

phillips of americans for prosperity. >> good morning. i think mister phillips is just giving us talking points and many of them don't make sense. for instance he says it's not fair for a state that's in trouble to get more than another state. however when the first stimulus money came out, much of it went to businesses that had no business receiving thatmoney . there were big businesses and many of them they're talking about havingto pay it back . so there i guess is in the eyeof the beholder . many things are fair. we're in the middle of a pandemic in this world and when we could have stopped it , the president refused to take the testing products from the world health organization.

then wound up and turned out tests that weren't accurate and were working. >> host: we will let our guest respond. >> guest: you may be surprised to hear i completely agree with her on the idea that bailing out industry-specific big businesses is the wrong way to go. we think that's a bad idea to. government help should not be cronyism where it picks up big winners and big losers based on their lobbyists or how much political contributions they make so tonya, i'm with you on that and americans for prosperity is there as well. we want to see it evenhanded and focused on the smaller businesses that don't have a big backup system in place r so we have constantly said during this process let's not reward specific industries again that have the best lobbyists, the best connections. let's not have government

picking winnersand losers so we agree with that . aid should be specifically targeted to those struggling and often those are the smaller businesses. a mom-and-pop operations with three, four, five, eight employees and not be the pocketed corporate interests that we're with you there . and it's important to not go that route again. a lot of the industries have their hands out. washington, it's a feeding frenzy where lobbyists are in there wanting to get what they would call their fair share. it's not their fair share but there's a big lobbying frenzy going on right now and we've seen coverage about that with folks cashing in and lobbyists getting big deals and that's wrong and this is a terrible time when america is struggling. a pandemic we haven't seen p since 1917 , 1918 and 1919 and an economic crisis that unprecedented and not is not the time for afrenzy of lobbying and special interest money .

>> from horseshoe north carolina , carol, you are up next. >> good morning. i just have questions about all of this. it seems like the people in the states that open first are all getting punished because they went to bars and they went to the beaches because they've been closed up for several months and all of a sudden most states have the big increase if you noticedflorida , georgia, all those states and also they did an interview of a guy in line at one of these testing centers and he had been through three times to get himself tested so these esnumbers, there's no way of telling if these numbers are true or not. they're just numbers on tv. what proof do we have as the american people that these numbers are true and these are all positive cases of corona and all of these people that are positive they not have any symptoms,they may not end up in the hospital . all this t is political, it

looks like being drummed up to keep the president from being reelected. >> it is interesting to watch people go after states that pressed to reopen their economies to try to get commerce going again , to try to get people their normal lives back. it states like florida, georgia, texas they are being hit hard by some in the media and some in the political world but it'simportant to note and i mentioned this earlier california which has had an opposite approach , a stringent lockdown that has been only ease so slowly for folks in california, their spike. their infection rate is spiking through the roof at this point. so there does seem to be some ideological games being played here with the states that have worked to get folks back to normal. i tell you what i see so consistently and i was in georgia a week ago. they're going door-to-door socially distanced but doing

door-to-door work with one of our sister organizations and what people want is their lives back. and what a normal return and i want to do it in a responsible safeway absolutely but it's easy for experts in washington dc and others to opine about simply shutting everything down and waiting it out whether it's thmonths or even to 2021. most experts always seem to have their jobs. i have an income source. so many americans don't have that right now. they've been hurt by these shutdowns and the shutdowns were needed in some respects no question.but now is the time again to continue looking for ways to responsibly get people backto normal , get our livesback and get this economy going again . >> lee in rockville maryland, high. >> good morning pedro, good morning mister phillips. i'd like to ask you about the

federal budget deficit. prior to the pandemic, prior to last winter we were looking at trillion dollar annual deficits as far as the eye could see and the republican party, the party of fiscal responsibility was just rolling over and accepting this. the deficit hawks like mulvaney tand ryan were just saying trillion dollar deficits, that's fine. how do you account for that? how do you account for these in norma's budget deficits prior to the pandemic that the republican party was just acquiescing to? >> guest: the most consistent failure of both parties over the last 20 years without doubt has been in the area of deficits and overspending. government overspending.

if you think bipartisanship is dead inwashington just give them abig spending bloated deal and bipartisanship does seem to come back around . you're right about that , the caller is right in that even with an economy that was growing pretty well in the first two and half years, three years of the trumpet ministration due to tax cuts and good policies that were implemented there was still a deficit being run around $1 trillion and that's frightening you're in good economic times to have a deficit that big on a budget that's barely over $4 trillion . that's too much by the way. so both parties failed during the bush years. spending was out of control during the obamayears .. spending was out of control when the democrats were fully in charge, when the republicans were fully in charge and spending went through the roof , deficits went up and then with split control we seen the same issue. where worried about.

deficits are the kind of thing you can always put off until tomorrow but a lot of times allocations want to think it does print economic growth and the ability of the private sector to get funding capital to go out and do what needed to do to create wealth and create jobs for folks so these deficits are so dangerous or not approaching the estimates are around $27 trillion in debt at this point read at a devastatingly high number. and it does hurt our country and at some point in the near future going to be paying more interest in the debt that we are putting towards defense or education or other really important priorities, infrastructure for example for the countries so we would urge both parties here because in all candor both parties have failed. to think about the deficit and debt as they make these decisions . that is important.

>> host: philip is with americans for prosperity and he serves as president . there's a viewer in texas about liability protections and he says this. liability protections are designed to shield bad actors from the full consequences of their actions and its anti-capitalists to allow them, how do you respond to that ? >> guest: i would say those fearing the lawsuits the most likely are again what i mentioned earlier. eschurches, synagogues, mosque . they are going to be targets of lawsuits without question and these churches and synagogues and mosques want to provide ritual services, to folks often most in need in their communities. they're going to be on the front line getting wiped out if we don't get some kind of liability reforms and small businesses without the ability to hire big lawyers and go through the appeals process are going to be hammered if we don't get liability protections and i mentioned the schools earlier . going to see a raft of

lawsuits towards schools which will mean taking money away from educating our children to pay what will be massive settlements so easy to say it's just about protecting big business or something like that but the truth is that big businesses are the ones with the deepest pockets often to be able to fight those and by the way they have every right to do that and it should do so if they think it's a frivolous lawsuit but i'm telling you where going to need liability protection or otherwise you're going to literally lose any kind of economic recovery due to these payments that will pull money out that we need to educate our children to provide faith and religious support and community support for people, churches and mosques and synagogues that do that in our schools which need to be educating our children, not having to hold massive reserves of money for what

they think will be judgment. so the liability reform is badly needed. excuse me liability protections are badly needed here or we're going to see a return to normal. people getting their normal lives back manically slowed down area that's an important thing that's happening. >> next up is kenneth, buffalo new york democrats line. >> good morning mister phillips. i'd like to note this organization americans for prosperity , whose prosperity are wetalking about ? are we talking about all americans west and mark it doesn't seem like you believe t in that because you want to cut off money to the states and people who have lost their jobs. this is nobody's fault. this pandemic is something that we all have to bear equally.

bear the costs for. and the question being prayed upon the poorest of the poor. the richest of therich should also have to suffer as much as the poorest of the poor . >> host: thanks caller. >> guest: americans for prosperity our goal is to remove the barriers that hold every american from everywalk of life , every walk of life back evfrom being able to live filling lives. and we do that across the board and very often on economic policy front, what we're fighting for is more freedom and more opportunity for people at the margins. those who are hurting most to be able to have fulfilling lives and live fulfilling lives and i think about policies that sometimes are a little bit hard to explain i'll just give one or two examples. we work and supported very hard for telemedicine to be expanded let's folks not have to go into a doctor's office.

that lowers costs for people but telemedicine helps seniors. who often are most vulnerable to this virus. stay in their homes and be able to access medical care without being exposed . issues like that can give people who are struggling the most the best opportunities and i think about what lower taxes and that usually impacts and saves money or holds ongoing at the margins. when someone in the state raises a gas tax in my home state of virginia raised a gas tax and it went into effect lifers . who does that hurt the most? it hurts the single mom struggling with a couple of jobs to raise her two children and that extra 60 or $70 a month on gas, that hurts her a lot more than someone who is making four or $500,000 a year in order to go to the suburbs so the e policies we promote we want

to help every american. and often the americans that are hurt the most by bigger government and higher taxes and more government regulation are people at the margins who are struggling the most 's mister phillips on the topic of government regulations we've got a few minutes but what do you think about this call by the president for applying federal forces in deal cities dealing with protests? >> guest: public safety is important and the rule of law is important . you can have prosperity and a place where folks can live their lives if you don't have the rule of law. i think that we want to look carefully before you have federal forces going into cities or localities. it's one thing to make sure that a federal courthouse is being protected because that's federal property and certainly the federal agovernment is responsible and it should be protecting those sites.

i think in portland oregon where for 60 nights now the federal courthouse there has been attacked , defaced, fires have been sent, lives have been threatened so the federal government there absolutely has a role. when you're talking about additional surge capacity on existing federal programs, that's something that seems reasonable as well but you want to be careful that global control is respected because federalism is an important part of the constitution which allows states and localities to have a great say in how their affairs are run . so it's finding the right balance and i hope this topic as in others the two parties can find ways to work together to find a balance. i can tell you americans are, when they're seeing this pandemic, they're seeing the economic crisis, and what the

government that's working. they don't want.you politics, they just want a government that's working to solve these problems like the one you brought up which is what is the balance between the federal response and then having states and localities be able to run their cities or states and it's finding a balance and that's where government has got to work together and that's where something that we need in this country more than any point i've seen in my lifetime. >> tim phillips of americans for prosperity, he is the president and the website if you want to check out more of their organization and mister phillips, thanks for giving us your time today . >>: a campaign event with jill biden, wife of joebiden. he's joined by members of congress . this is live coverage on c-span2