at 5:00 o'clock eastern. and then on july 25th. we have the u.s. - 5:00 o'clock eastern so check this out. and then sign up on the event site. i want to think again for life captioning segment. and want to thank haymarket books for organizing this. thank you both so much for joining me and everyone to the call. ruha: thank you everybody. dorothy: thank you. >> looked to be continues now on "c-span2". television for serious readers. >> welcome to gun line series with jewish heritage. i am manager of the public programs. and will be explaining the story, the polish leader, "the

volunteer" the true story. when joined today by author jack fairweather. and the author of the good work. as the daily telegraph, and as a video journalist for the washington post in afghanistan. in interviewing jack today is doctor robert. one of the main authorities on history. from 1997 - 98, robert young developed a master plan and participated as an expert witness in the case against the british historians and author. robert young has published on camp and served as historical advisor and the evidence room which would be visited at the center. so before we get started i

wanted to do some quick housekeeping things. we will have time about 15 minutes or so for audience q&a. and i sure do have questions from the end and we will try to go back and get as many as possible. and please note that this program is being recorded it will be available on youtube channel within the next few days or so. i will follow-up with registers on today's program. and probably tomorrow with a link to it. and only to the books for purchase and the video programming. so without further ado, i will turn it over to jack and also robert young. jack: h.dr. robert: i will be interviewing jack today.

but he is forced going to give a presentation. i think ten or 15 minutes. basically, presenting some of the core ideas and things of the book. i think it would probably be best, whence we are done we can start talking about questions. so it is all yours. jack: thank you so much. and for the jewish heritage. a sort of grade two have this opportunity to share the story of a truly remarkable man. and some of the best way to begin, telling about who witold pilecki was. his with in some ways defined so much of the man and his legacies. so i will do that by taking wanted to our, brief tour through his life. so let me start by sharing my

screen. i don't know if you can see that. there you go. i would like you all to begin picturing the scene with me. september 19th, 1940. the polish underground operative named witold pilecki, sitting on his porch on the streets of all-star. and i would like to show you, that is the the apartment building he was sitting on the third floor targeted. he is sitting here, to the left of this in the photograph. witold pilecki is 38 years old, reserve officer, farmer, and a

devout catholic. father of two. and images of kids in their fancy dress, his wife, who is a local schoolteacher. and the two of them, this is on their wedding date and this is one of my favorite images. before the war, poland had been one of the holistic societies europe. the population, 10 percent is jewish. in the forces. [inaudible]. [background sounds]. [inaudible]. 1939 .

jack: is intent on the destruction of poland. it is intellectual. that meant revving up lawyers, doctors, journalists, writers, even the country's top chess player. here are some images from october 1939. stereotypical run-up. i want to emphasize at this point, the germans were arresting catholics and jews alike. over were killed in the first few months of the occupation. absolutely staggering figure. the following year in may, 1940. the germans began new concentration camp in the south part of the country. a camp they called it auschwitz. here's a map of poland.

it is eastern part of the country. and then they were appointed to the town, the germans college auschwitz. little was known about was of the inside of the camp. we learn from the formants, there was a round of the very morning in this district. in fact, that was why he was there. because this mission for the underground was to infiltrate the camp and gather evidence of trennazis' operations crimes th. imagine the sound of trucks pulling up outside gunshots following. there's an open the door. and he said get out while you still can.

but he doesn't. his mission is to remain with his sister-in-law's apartment. and he is in the room with his nephew. three old boy called merrick. any notices that the boy's teddy bear has fallen on the ground. and just as there were sounds of us dumps on the stairwell outside the door opened. he reaches down and picks up a teddy bear and hands it to the boy saying that he was scared and needed reassuring. in any in an instant, he must've had any turns, witold pilecki turns to the soldier in the apartment and steps into captivity. three days later, he arrived in auschwitz. as we all know, here is witold

pilecki now is a prisoner. over the next two and a half years, witold pilecki forged an underground army in auschwitz that sabotaged facilities and assassinated officers. in an uprising. it was arriving in auschwitz and beginning as a trent concentration camp and that he witnessed the steps would buy which the nazis' operations and the final solution and europe's jews. he was the first person to seek to warn the world about the horrors of the camp. and he was the first to try to stop them. in three years before allies commanders publicly announce auschwitz's role, witold pilecki was already calling on them for secret messages. to destroy auschwitz. and yet for all of exploits, in

auschwitz, his story is almost unknown. and by chance, i met up with a reporter friend of mine in 2011. and we were talking about auschwitz and the war zone and try to make sense of our experiences. and my friend just come back from a trip to auschwitz. and has learned about resistance cell in the camp. anything like a lot of you, here today that idea that resistance was possible in auschwitz. that was just startling and surprising to me. i know i had to find out more. in a year or so later, there were reports of witold pilecki was finally translated into english. it was the most remarkable document describing in great details, this emergency that witold pilecki's experiences in

the camp. an also lived and answered questions that he himself could not have known. such as what happened to all of the intelligence that he smuggled out of the camp. what was it that the allies did not respond to his desperate pleas to action against auschwitz. so like a moment to pause. and i will show you where witold pilecki's writings were housed for many decades after the war. in that small west london house. the polish underground study trust. one of the great mysteries about a story was revealed to me is what i began to dig into it. it is why have we not heard about this man before. and the answer is that after the war, poland was taken over by soviet backed communists afraid

and witold pilecki following his them as much as he fought against the nazis' operations and afterwards. and in auschwitz and he was captured by the communist, executed and all trace of his more time records were hidden away. at a simple of his, was smuggled to london at the end of the war. and it was archived. it was not publicized for decades for fear of sparking something. and because witold pilecki and put them at anybody in the polish underground was persecuted by the communist after the war as a possible resistance. it took decades for this story to really emerge in poland. and year the best report, that was kept under wraps all of

those years. it was in the handwriting around the edge. and this was the cabin of the polish underground for the senate report were that report sources today. in the second shot from the top, you can see the page, is sitting perpendicular to the shelves. that is the reports. i'm always a little bit amazed to see it there because in my mind, national archives and also but nope. that's where that remarkable document telling the story of witold pilecki's experience of the camp is there. dr. robert: many people don't seem to be able to see the pictures. to sort out really know what is happening. i can see it. jack: okay. i can turn, maybe.

we can have another go at reloading it. it would be a shame if you cannot see these images. they are worth sharing. maybe if i just this. let's try this. is that better. can you see them. dr. robert: it seems to be better. i'm guessing some people are saying that yes we can see it. perfect. i'm able to see them just fine. jack: okay. i'm so sorry for the inconvenience. find cabinet where that report has sat. so having appointed myself with

the reports. having seen that sort of historical contained in it, and the questions about what happens with the intelligence that he had. i think this personal challenge that i felt from witold pilecki's story. and try to understand that what would make everything, for such a mission. also have the alive into kids mt begin the search. like witold pilecki i really wanted to understand what would drive him to risk everything on such a mission rated and also there are questions that i want to begin gathering material. and also in 2016. the first person that i wanted to meet was . dr. robert: i am sorry again. see what you can't see anything. >> i think you turned off your

powerpoint maybe. there, i see you read but not your powerpoint. jack: okay, i will try it again. >> there it is. jack: okay. >> that looks good. jack: so in 2016 remarkably, i met witold pilecki's son. and i was very nervous about meeting him because he was a child when his father was executed. and for decades he had been told that his dad was the enemy of the states. and it was until, that andre was morning details about his father's mission. and then he saw the writings of his father story. who was i direct man's

biography. i shouldn't have worried about meeting on various because he was most delightful chad that i could hope to meet. he was engaged, compassionate. and furious. he said jack, i'm not sure which are going to find out about my data we should start looking. so looking andre and i said, i'm starting with you. so little is known about your dad and his thinking. anything that you can tell me is going to give me an insight. and a right in the file, narrative nonfiction. and it means, it reads like a novel. everything in the pages of the book has to be true. and that means that if andre could give me into his dad's thinking, it would be so helpful for me to write about what drove witold pilecki's actions in the

camp. in one of the things that really stood me up on arriving, was discovering how many people who were still alive would not him. in some cases even fought alongside him. and even better, is when i got to meet these gentlemen and women. and take them to the places that witold pilecki had performed some of these deeds. and were the key places that i wanted to go to was the apartments where he was working on his mission. this was the few days after meeting andre. on the first floor. we found the door. and it was wonderful seeing inside of this historic space. been suggested as we were there you might as well recorded some audio of merging up the steps and banging on the door. i could cost up to one have

done. and so we did. because it's what it took to wake a rather sleepy inhabitants inside. it was a student housing rated and they were still fast asleep. and completely unaware that this apartment was the scene of a truly historic moment in history. that is the room in which witold pilecki wanted for his mission. dr. robert: we seem to have beast having the same problem. or maybe i should stop intervening. i don't know what you can do about it. jack: whether it's a localized issue or every one is experiencing it. i'm nearing the and so i should probably continue on.

dr. robert: i can see it. jack: so i will describe the images so those of you who can't see it, i can describe it. picture in your mind now, very untidy student among them. so one of the things i wanted to do is bring someone who had been in the department back there. and you may remember that child who witold pilecki had comforted just moments before he was arrested. various sitting on witold pilecki's knee in 1939. and it turned out that the boy was still alive. here he is sworn i met him. he's a gentleman, looking very dapper. and i took it back to the apartment. and i showed them around. it was the first time america had been back since the war.

and returning, pushed him to remember all sorts of details. and concerning the layout of the different furniture layout. he also. [inaudible]. >> are there any men. what is going on. he was ready to go. [inaudible].

>> what is he say to you when he was living. do you remember cried. jack: actually the video was describing those moments when the germans burst in. you can see him tearing up just a little bit at the end. he was in tears remembering his engagement with his family. so that was part of my approach to telling the story. i wanted to follow in his footsteps as much as possible. finding those who had known him. taken him to places where he may have seen him. and there were hundreds of thousands of details. and that is when i knew the book would be possible was arriving

at the archives at the state museum and discovering over three and half thousand personal testimonies, hundreds of which described witold pilecki in action or moments that he would've witnessed. so i was able to start building up. and with the accuracy and tracing the really immersive experience of witold pilecki's time in the camp. and this approach was great for giving readers that since of being alongside witold pilecki. but i want to leave you with a small antidote to about how this approach also helps me solve where this great mysteries that i began the project with. which was the question of what happened to witold pilecki's reports. that was smuggled out of the camp. and witold pilecki describes

sending his first report in october of 1940. a few weeks after some time there. he's already witnessed incredibly parental atmosphere whereby the germans, it would starve to death and brutalize the prisoners. and again, they were polish nationalists pretty and jewish. and catholics and protestants rated all portable all polish nationals. he witnessed all of this. and he merely had to inform the world. he gives us the name of his messenger. alexander. but he said no more. no doubt he was concerned that he had said mark, in his writing that perhaps after the war the communist would've tracked him down and arrested him. in a along with that name, i was able to find alexander's family. his son.

and here's a picture of him he has no idea that his dad was witold pilecki's messenger from the camp. but he needed no that he was is dense favorite in the arm of that name, my search went back to the underground study trap in the west london. there are hundreds of reports from the underground in the archives there. with that name, we could track down a folder in which was contained the story of how witold pilecki's report carried out from the camp, made its way all across occupied europe to reach the british. that was in london. and i discovered that incredible journey in the book but wanted to leave you today with the remarkable message that witold

pilecki wanted to tell the world in october of 1940. it's what he wanted to say. thank the polish government for the love of god, to bomb the camp. it would be a relief given the conditions. this is the urgent well considered request set on behalf of the comrades of the witnesses. and when i heard those words, i had goosebumps because they are pretty much what witold pilecki made alexander's memorize when he was in the camp. and is a stunning idea to think what might have happened had the allies intervened. i went on to trace up to ten of witold pilecki's reports. in each time of going to find using the same process of deductive reasoning and finding family members and retracing

journeys. and how the reports made their way to london. the reason why i argue in the book. i am so passionate about witold pilecki's story. the reason why it is so important is that he he charted the steps through his writings by which the nazis' operations turn it into a concentration camp. in the polish nationals, for the final solution. in his report and that witness in this extraordinary way to the different sects. it is one of history's great what might have been, what would've happened had the world listened. so i would like to leave it there . and reconnect with you all in my sincere apologies for the screen sharing, that was frustrating. but we can work on the staff. so thank you very much.

dr. robert: thank you jack. i would like to just clear up a little bit for moment if that is okay. this story, and technology is everything. so, witold pilecki, rental and half years. in what was it april of 43. jack: yes. dr. robert: so there are really two major phases. and that's in the history of the camp, then he sees the original basically the formation of the polish concentration camp. and then, already for longer of

it that the russian, arriving there . in the first gassing takes place. and when also you got that mass murder and described that in some detail. and they are sent originally to gas chambers in germany itself. for the use of the killings of people getting murdered. in the program to kill. and then finally, in the spring 42, supervising and auschwitz. and initially, and small gas chambers. and with the gas chambers, are complete that there are taking -

in 1942. and that's the time that witold pilecki freeze. and it just wonder because there is of course quite an extent of literature. and the focuses very much on the reports and actually came out in 1944. and so the most famous report. ... ...

auschwitz should be and the victim it's the forming of the great crematory. i would just like maybe interest of the report and request written in 1940 when auschwitz was still relatively small concentration camp and the final solution did not mean the moment yet. come out and 44, there is a bombing at the time. wonder if you would be able to reflect a little bit if you compare and contrast of a 19 for example in 1944 the state credibility of the report. it was in 1940, perceived that you could maybe play a little bit at this time?

>> thank you, that is a great overview. i think it helps sort of show the forward trajectory of the story. we all know about that debate or many of us do in 1944 whether or not to bomb auschwitz and is someways has become a symbol for all of us to what we should have done to try to stop the holocaust. but of course what witold pilecki story does is focus attention on his request many years before that in 1940. there are different circumstances, i think it is important to understand the context by which pilecki report from the camp is considered by the allied high command in december 1940, early 1941, britain is under attack by the blitz, number of

operational bombers they have is below 200 and there is no immediate allies or help from the americans which is very much alone and in some ways come to uncover the discussion of command with men like charles and his subordinates, richard pierce. i came to appreciate some of that concern. they debated whether or not to bomb auschwitz and took on board pilecki requests very seriously. but they actually said something that was quite interesting. to recognize it would be impossible to reach with british warplanes all the way to auschwitz which was true prayed there was no radar at that stage. would've been the longest admission ever under raf.

it would have really pushed the bounds of possibility. now richard pierce as it would be incredibly difficult to do i it. but, it would potentially be a political symbol. and in a way passing the buck because he wants ultimately some like churchill to order it. but that ideas really interesting. the raf decided against us which in early 1941 for those reasons. but i came to fill during the research that had they tried, however doomed and flawed it would have been political symbol, very powerful one in the world of existence of auschwitz which is one of the crazy things about the camp's history is how long its name was hardly known among the

allies. but also would have create a precedence of trying to stop nazi atrocities. that is really a crucial point. because two years later the americans were on board, there is access then to heavy bombers, liberators, lancaster's there were more than capable of hitting auschwitz. but when the allies came against debate and the idea of bombing the camp to stop the atrocities, they actually referred back to that first debate and the files to argue as to why they should not bomb auschwitz for they said oh it would be possible it will be a political symbol. and the debate in 1944 was being informed by that request from pilecki. i think that's why it is so important to understand the

context for the decision regarding pilecki's request. then to see how it played out in allied thinking is a constant step back from taking abstention action. >> guest: one of the great problems in the history agar for the allied response to the holocaust, i thought particular about the holocaust of course is that from 1942 onwards, almost always had that the english and the americans had to have the sake in their own populations. and then any intervention which was explicitly done on behalf of the jews was considered to be popular it would make the war more difficult to fight because it would now become a war to save the jews, and that was of course not something many people would agree with. and then of course 1940s the

auschwitz didn't exist it was primarily a polish camp so that in some way i would say there's the possibility, interesting look at let's call how the prejudice in this case of the military in england which was course very much pro- polish in 1940. they were heroic and very deserving people. and of course ally even if they hadn't supported them much in 1959 but they would come to war on their behalf. that would've colored and shaded their discussion in a way that in 1944 when it was really now about the jews and auschwitz might've got into a different direction. i haven't really compared these discussions from the perspectiv perspective, but i think probably will be very interesting way to look into

the souls of these military men and who could refer to this. so i came to the conclusion, write about that's extensively in the book. it's a huge part of pilecki story. having his experience in the camp contrasted with what was happening in the allied capitals. their response to what he was telling them. i think i came to the conclusion that whilst it was under stand about, the allied response the british response in 1941 to that first request,-, 43, the material from pilecki from many sources really made action -- the lack of action unconscionable. and once i take an approach to history that we shouldn't seek to judge or overwrite our

experiences onto those of the time i tried to let everyone have their say as it were in the sense of that thinking becomes a really damning indictment to take action. >> host: there something else i had the pleasure of writing once a short biography of a person, a young man who ultimately was killed in a holocaust because i had this diary and had to write an 80 page biography of him to understand the diary. research is life. and there's a certain moment that it clicks. it's a relationship that you follow love with the character. that you suddenly get to the core of what the demand is, both in your case and mine. i would just like to know that the shadowy figure and then when is the moment i know who

you are now. i think i really understand you. and then you've got the sense of if there is actually a relationship between you and him pretty look forward and some weight shaking it at the afterlife. [laughter] that's very much our thoughts. think a lot of the quest is this pursuit of your subjects. and it often feels like you are playing catch up. but i definitely remember the first time where i really felt that i did arrive at the same points in time as pilecki and that was when i was staging a recreation of his amazing escape from the camp for its always encourage everyone to read the book. because his escape from

auschwitz is one of the great wartime escapes from concentration camp. he wrote about in his report and a fellow escape person wrote about it too so those two narratives together gave a rich experience about what it was like to escape camp. i wanted to follow in his footsteps. so escaping, as it were, from the stamp, same hour, same day albeit decades later. that meant 2:00 a.m. i started making a -- for it along the banks crossing the same real way bridget pilecki had done in finding the spots he described in his report. but not identify otherwise in the sun starts to rise and he makes a dashboard across the field to the shelter.

he described his hundred mile journey across southern poland. he named some of the villages but doesn't say much more. i visited those villages and would usually turn up and say where's the oldest person here? on several occasions i was introduced to families who had sheltered pilecki and his two fellow escape verse. as a really lovely moment reaching the safe house where pilecki spent some time recuperating safe from nazi clutches. maybe i can share with you now, that scene on probably asking for trouble but here is pilecki in his two fellow escape verse. mrs. oh i'm so sorry.

here is the man are why want to do. in. here is pilecki in his escape verse. this is at the safe house. that house today when i got to visit. that little girl. [inaudible] that was filled with naturally , was the table where pilecki sat down and started writing his first thoughts about the camp as a free man. and i got to sit at that table. it was a moment, you may empathize with, you really felt like i had reached, caught up with my subject. on a one to share in that moment with both the hospitality of my house, but also the moment when i got to

reflect on pilecki experience in the camp as he had set down at the same spot. see what now if you were to meet him now what would be the first question you would ask him? >> guest: i think for those of you who read through the book, i think the camp through his escape, but when he returns to his family, after escaping and then postwar poland. he really struggles to connect with his family. and you know, it is a real sense of tragedy there. there are good reasons, poland after the war, was subjected to ache, he was plunged into

the struggle. but within that struggle he met his family and could not engage with them. that was brought home to me by a detail his son told me that pilecki had never spoken to his wife, maria, about his experience in the camp. in the years afterward. and that really touched me, knowing how much pilecki was thinking and working over his inexperience, that she was not able to share it. one of the last things he wrote as a free man was also one of his most beautiful, it was talking about sitting with friends in the camp, knowing there going to be executed the next day and then reflecting

to him that great regret in life was they had not shared more with those they loved. that was pilecki's final thoughts as a free man. if i could see him, i would just want to ask him whether he felt he could at that point start connecting with his family again. i think everyone has had experience of stress and turmoil in their lives, we know how disassociate seating that can b be, which is between those we love and our love to think there was possibility of redemption and i think pilecki offers it in his final comments, may be something we can all take away from his story. >> host: i am right now looking at the q and a. the questions that have been

raised and i'm picking out if that's okay will maybe do it. one question which came from catty car. it's a basically about the title, the book, the volunteer read the question says to what extent does he really volunteer in the sense that he was in the literary profession and he saw his task as part of a continuous war that yet fought in the war as an officer before the polish army of course the government never a picky elated. this was a continuation. so to what extent can you really talk then about this is a volunteer if he was a volunteer? that's the moment he would suggest he had a choice. and if he had the set high

sense of duty, and professionalism, then in some way you might suggest that he was not a volunteer, at least not in relationship to this superego so to speak. >> guest: that was who wrote very brilliantly songs of one of the great escape person in the book i write about. but if you read hello i love your work, it was a great question the book is called the volunteer that does some what's on the image that pilecki is raising his hands and i'll do it. the story of how his mission was conceived is such an important one. because it really cuts to the heart of some things about pilecki that informs so much of his time in the camp. that is this, pilecki does not

write much about politics other to say that he doesn't like politics and politicians in the way these issues to divide people. but there is a one act in his life, and that is when he stands up to his boss in the underground, this is shortly after the germans have occupied warsaw. monies taken up the fight against them. his boss was to publish a manifesto that is chauvinistic, nationalistic, defines poland as been catholic and only for catholic polls. and pilecki's coat clearly divisive. takes a stand against his boss he insists that he signed up with the main polish underground has much more inclusive agenda. and his boss does, but in doing so, he volunteers

pilecki for a mission. a mission to auschwitz. it is such a scene in the book because it really tells a lot about who pilecki was. he was taking a stand in the name of having a pole and that was in which everyone banded together to fight the nazi. course he had to decide to take the mission, that's one thing his boss said to him. this is pretty dangerous he was told. so i'm going to have to ask you to volunteer. now of course from him being told here's a mission you can do it if you wanted to or leave it of course. that was an impossible decision, he avoided the first round up that could of got them sent to the camp as he was struggling with this decision. but in the end, of course he did go. and that for me is the essence of volunteering, that willing

choice and why that scene i began the presentation with is so important for me. it's that moment when he set aside, decided to leave behind his family his immediate circle and everything you think he might be consumed with it order to begin this extraordinary journey. >> host: now, one of the people who is very famous as a man who informed especially about the holocaust and poland. one of the reasons he became very famous of course is also because of his appearance in the movie where he gives incredible testimony. it is very important in the movie. now one of the interesting things is a life at the beginning of the testimony as it's presented in the movie, he -- when he goes into the

ghetto. so there are two leaders. have got into the wausau cabinet to see for himself what's happening inside the ghetto in 1940 so he could in some way when he goes to the allied t-uppercase-letter can see it with his own eyes. he can bear witness to something he has seen. it is not hearsay. and so very interestingly, he was an aristocrat. he was a polish roman aristocrat. he admits to some prejudice against them and he said is actually quite wonderful because these jewish leaders i was meeting in the outside of the ghetto, they were not at all jewish. they were like polish gentlemen. and the moment they go into the ghetto they slipped through a door through the wall and a house or something like that and suddenly become jewish. they were amongst themselves. very interesting there will be an incredible love and

admiration for him but also for the fact that in some way he both recognizes his prejudice and also his struggle to transcend his prejudice. now when he goes into auschwitz does not go there because of what's happening to the troops. i mean auschwitz at that moment was not that important. but it becomes quite important. since we are here speaking into the museum, i should think it would be a good thing too, for a moment, consider pilecki's relationship to what was known in poland as a jewish problem. in the way he struggles with that. >> guest: that is a great question. and it is one that i really need to tackle in the book. straight away. and that is to situate pilecki in prewar poland which was

multiethnic, diverse, the largest jewish population in the world, warsaw was just a melting pot of ideas and culture. but it was also seen of anti-semitism. i think one thing i came to understand in research is according to distinction between polish prewar and that of the nazi we think of summits tis him his road toward ideology. that's not what life was like in prewar poland. they were nasty material appearing in the press that was a campaign to have polish jews immigrate to israel.

there are very different types of discrimination. and pilecki, that was partly his world. he came from a conservative, catholic background. i found no evidence to suggest he held anti-semitic jews. think even had i done, what makes history so important is that he left that all behind in his journey to the camp. when he found a way to reach beyond his immediate circle of friends. beyond his immediate conception of being polish and who he was in order to risk his life to have crimes, crimes against jewish families brought to the camp for extermination. so that, for me, was an interesting question to all of us today, how do we reach

beyond our immediate concerns in order to emphasize and empathize with the suffering of others? that is pilecki's challenge to us. when i think his story can really teach us. and so yeah. so i have a question for you which is always interested me. >> 's about to suggest with one question for me is fine. >> guest: i think medicare will know his name she quite celebrated. it's remarkable polish career with news of the holocaust as it was unfolding in 1952 and did such an incredible job of bringing that to the allies. i wanted to, and rightly celebrate the united states holocaust memorial museum is a

well-known name. we know many reasons why pilecki's name is not well-known because of that suppression during communism. i'm just wondering, why since the '90s when his material has been sort of widely available, why is he not being you know -- why is it an not until now were finally taught but this remarkable man? >> host: my back elation and this is just speculation that i think we are looking at the history of the auschwitz museum, they have a really good research departments. if excellent historians. but, my sense is a little bit that there wasn't an enormous amount of emphasis in the research department on resistance in the camp in the

1970s and 80s. and that in some way, many publications appear at the time when the name pilecki was not mentioned. i think that in some way, the emphasis on resistance in let's say the communist era in the auschwitz museum research enterprise is someway still the core of much research done on auschwitz. and we refer to the research department for auschwitz when they come in to the late 1990s when the name of pilecki now becomes more known. that leads to the museum is not named after pilecki and so on. but in somewhat the research focus and in some ways the

focus of the auschwitz museum shifted away from the issue of resistance. so i think in some way, that the discovery of pilecki's activities came to lay in these natural flow of what the auschwitz museum actually, what material they were working on. now that doesn't mean that the research, the new focus on research in their work. i think certainly, probably center on pilecki. there were many things and were looking at also the kind of ebb and flow of research in the whole history of the holocaust where we are looking at different things today than we looked 20 years ago. nowadays of course, gender studies are very much

informing our idea. we realize here in the moments in the 1990s after looking for 40 years on the history of auschwitz people started to realize they'd only looked at men and never looked at women in auschwitz. so at a certain moment it took time actually for that research focus to become auteur and for the work to be done. so i certainly think that it is probably time, a generation later for a new kind of consideration of the question of research on auschwitz. think there many unanswered questions, especially the relationship of the polish roman catholic christian resistant groups with the jewish resistance groups. in the relationship between these two, the resistance in auschwitz, the main camp, and

the canal there still. [inaudible] around that relationship. i think once resistance come back on the agenda, that he will be an essential character in all of that. that would at least my explanation. and i must admit that with the first book i wrote was really conceived in the 1980s, written in the early 1990s, pilecki is not mentioned in that book and ultimately in my later work he is mentioned. but certainly after your book he will become an even greater character and whatever narrative i might write in the future about auschwitz. we are now a little after 3:00 p.m. so i think we have used up everyone's time. i really like to thank you very much for this excellent presentation. even if we had some issues with the slides i think.

in some going to give it back to you, samantha. >> thank you robert and jack. two echo what robert said this was in incredible presentation. thank you jack for the work you have done. and everyone watching, please go out and buy jack's book. i know they have a lot of questions that came and we did not have time to get to today. but hopefully you can find your answers to your questions and jack's book. it is now available of politics and prose. i'll be sending out those links in the coming days. in addition to more information about jack and more information about her upcoming public programs. we are continuing to do these programs twice a week so stay tuned for more. and thank you guys again. ♪

♪ >> book tv on cspan2 has top nonfiction books and authors. every weekend. coming up sunday, msnbc political analysis with her book the end of white politics. on identity politics and how to create a more inclusive democratic party. she is inter- bride by voter latino ceo president maria. bennett 1045 maryland governor larry hogan on his life and career with his book still standing. watch book tv, on cspan2. this weekend. ♪ ♪ >> here's a look at some publishing industry news. last week the justice department filed a claim for the royalties associate with former trump administration national security adviser john bolton's recent book about his time in the white house. the motion, which would include mr. bolton's two main dollars advance argues the book was released before the completion of the government's

prepublication review. book editor james silverman died last week at the age of 93. mr. silverman edited such authors as james bollen, hunter s thompson and david halberstam during his career at random house. in other news the guardian reports that ernest hemingway's published works contains hundreds of errors that have never been corrected. american literature scholar robert trogdon who studied the many skips are held to the john f. kennedy presidential library reported that the grammatical mistakes are made by editors or typesetter's when publishing new additions and do not reflect hemingway's original intent. also in the news mpd bookscan reports print book sales were up 20% on the week ending july 25. adult nonfiction sales rose 23%, and were led by mary trumps that is critical of the president entitled too much and never enough. and following the lead of other upcoming book festivals the brooklyn book festival has announced is going to be held

virtually from september 28 until october 5. the 15th annual literary event will feature over one hunter 50 authors, book tv will continue to bring you new programs and publishing news pretty can also watch all of our archive programs anytime a booktv.org. >> well today is august 4, 2020. on may 5 of this year we spoke with janet webster jones who is the owner of sourcebooks sellers in detroit about how the shutdown has affected her business. janet webster jones, give us an update five months into the pandemic. >> guest: we have quite a lot to say this time peter and thanks again for having us on c-span. you're also dear to our hearts. i look at you at home a lot. you have helped us really improve our business by listening to you.