preview of what is available every weekend on "c-span2". tonight, starting at eight. p.m. eastern, on her journey from somalia the refugee . to becoming one of the first muslim woman elected to the u.s. congress. an author heather of the details very experience local politics in her hometown of alaska. and senator martha mcsally, the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat. she reflects on a military career interest or guiding principles. enjoyable tv, "c-span2". first lady michelle obama, 2020 presidential candidate senator bernie sanders. the democratic national convention, tonight, life coverage begins at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. live streaming on demand at cspan.org/deviancy read or listen with the free c-span

radio app. cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. >> hello everybody and welcome. my name is that they were for politics and prose. thank you so much for joining us on our online format but we are continuing our prime tradition of the other events and bringing the authors you love and the books to you. any time during the events tonight, please click the green button below to purchase the book on the website. they're offering 5-dollar shipping as an incentive as our doors are closed and we need these online purchases in order to bring the programming that we are known for. tonight you can is the author a question by clicking on ask a question down near the bottom of your screen. and that off of you can also read other peoples questions and vote for the ones you would like to hear answered must . or minor there in person events, the

other most audience members cannot see the screen, we welcome you in those jim. onto the main event . that house speaker nancy pelosi, molly, draws on exclusive interviews with the speaker to track her extraordinary career. in the progress in 1987, and her accomplishments such as universal healthcare, in the military to her conversations with trump and others. molly is streaming conversations braided achieve national correspondence in time magazine i.welcome molly and mark. >> thank you going to be here. >> so i guess we are on. >> it was great to be here. >> thank you for being here . my name is mark . as molly and the

other side of the screen. we have a lot of people here. according to the number on the bottom of the screen, or hundred and 28 people. >> personal, thank you president and missus obama. and carter and bush for coming. thank you rusty me to do this and thinking for being here. this is really great book and i will tell you that i read it the less the blood. it took me like maybe like a day in half rated is a pure pleasure to do. it is both really measurable kind of thing, at the same time it will be one of those historical things were if you want to learn about one of the two or three most consequential people of the century so far politically, you will have a

document i will tell you everything you need to know about nancy pelosi. 7 million questions i know you do too. so i am going to do is talk for about two nasa questions for about half an hour and then turn it over to y'all with questions. ... ... >> i assume you have a horror story of what it's like to write a book or you have heard all of these stories about the

process? was is something you and recommend did it exceed expectations are not meet expectations? >> i was totally miserable. i would not recommend it. it definitely reminded me of childbirth in the sense that people tell you how excruciating it will be and you say sure. a lot of pain but you don't internalize how that will be in that this is hard. and then i feel sorry for myself so yes it is hard to write a book. and then to be active in politics so she made it

difficult to finish the book with the process of interviewing people when the impeachment was getting underway and then of the 2020 election cycle. so it was a challenge but definitely a very fulfilling. and when you report on politics day in and day out there are us things you find in your writing when you start to feel you are understanding and a lot of dimensions of politics so this is a way to bring that together about women and politics.

and also magazine writers you have more work. >> what about nancy pelosi that you thought she would be worthy? >> all of the political figures that was big enough for about. that to take a deep dive into her. was designed to profile her and at first i think she was all that interesting frankly the then to get in there and to think of the characteristics of her career that there were a lot of layers to unpack and a history

and stuff that i didn't know about her and i had a conversation with david marinus a few years ago when i can come up with an idea and said how did you know he said you just have to be obsessed with it. it will have to turn into an obsession. >>. >> you mentioned that that she is not a great interview. she doesn't make it fine or easy and she doesn't speak

off-the-cuff that much. she's a private person. so how did you separate how difficult and that she is to crack with the ambition that you can actually crack the nut with the interesting magazine story? >> it is interesting because so much of politics is about communication and to be one of the great political orators. not to say she's not bright and articulate because they are terrified not as terrified of saying the wrong thing they just repeat themselves over and over don't answer questions but doesn't engage in public introspection what she's thinking about herself

you have to figure her out and she's not a natural storyteller a lot of the compelling people do speak in stories and anecdotes and there is a conspicuous absence with her public speaking. so it was an occasion for me on the role of communication and perception in politics thinking about what is the relationship between what they perceive and what they do and how much of that they are responsible for and the person being perceived. and to be deconstructionist but we hear about this all the time a lot of the president's defenders will say and a lot

of the critics will say no but it matters just as much. i don't think there is quite that disjunction but the other thing that you can understand it is everything is about results and what she will get out of whatever television or a fundraiser or whatever so she's much more interested in driving a message home than making you like her or making herself feel good or it is about what it is i'm trying to communicate and how many times do i have to repeat it? >> it's a great point. a couple of days ago interviewed for the first time aoc and i never interviewed

her before. it was a shadow to nancy pelosi and as she said she's up in her feelings all the time. she's very vulnerable and open that way. i am wondering if you ever had an occasion to see nancy pelosi do vulnerability at all? or herself? i am just wondering what that feels like what it is like to be attacked or targeted the way she is or mischaracterize the way that she is.

>> i wouldn't say i got a sense of vulnerability but i did feel she let her guard down enough to get snippy with me. that she is not the emotive person and you are right there is something generational about that to be born in the forties now 80 years old incomes from a more formal era particularly for women. and as you alluded to that you cannot separate her the way she carries herself with how she has been turned into republicans with pelosi that just likes stomping on people. i'm not saying that is necessarily unfair but if you are subjected to that

onslaught to put on a suit of armor and i go to battle. she is renowned for her toughness and stealing its and discipline and that is just to be in public and refusing to let anyone see her sweat. >> and the republican party to feel to have good face in the house or the administration? >> and a popular blue state

republican governors on the frontlines of the coronavirus response. and you hear this a lot back when republicans were nice and gentle but literally born into the democratic party never any doubt of her partisan loyalty and she describes her upbringing that way. and there is an amazing anecdote early in the book where she just moved to california with her husband who is in finance. for young children, they just

moved from san francisco. she knows nobody and staying with her mother-in-law which is unpleasant for everyone involved. they are frantically trying to find a house they finally find the perfect place has a yard and offense it's a rental and perfect and as they are about to sign the papers, literally turns to the owner and says we are moving it to washington my has been accept the job for the nixon administration and she says were not taking it. refuse to live in a house made available by the election of richard nixon. a democratic partisan and does not have love for the republican party. that said she has accomplished a lot of things on a bipartisan basis.

and with those convictions and then to find someone in the middle of both parties. how can she go with mitch mcconnell not a politician like chuck schumer like that schmoozing relationship. >> and with that ongoing stimulus negotiation so vote by mail collection protections

in to make sure whatever happens in november is on the level that yet you don't see the leverage that nancy pelosi has and how the next round of negotiations would go. >> it has been interesting to watch should she's always had them on a tight rope where the left said she's not pulling out enough and the republicans calming her the obstructionist so she has to balance those demands and she recognizes the urgency of this moment action has to happen fast that she

also feels the democrats are they deserve a seat at the table. with the massive trillion dollar bills there was an attempt to cut her out mitch mcconnell originally did not agree to her demands with the four corner negotiations between the house and senate and she said look. i need to be part of this discussion and be reasonable i need to be at that table. so i think that's what she talks about going forward as well. and that is some of the things that you referenced.

>> if it was ever truly and by the caucus i guess probably the last time was 2017?

tim ryan? did he actually run against her? >> 2016 but not 2018. >> especially 18 younger people have talked about this but do you have a sense going back and forth between the majority and minority she was threat and inside the caucus? >> yes there was a fair amount of angst in a leadership that was is think this a lot of house democrats were frustrated to see leaders 131517 years now they are in their upper seventies and early eighties people thought it was time for a fresh face and also personal ambition and

then moving up the ladder because it was frozen in place that wasn't fair to members with great potential for leadership because she's the subject of so many attacks , probably hundreds of millions of dollars at this point she had become politically toxic for republican leaning districts the need to keep their seats to keep the majority so the feeling was that it would be better politics. what you did here was somebody else could do a better job managing the house shaking

the's complex pieces of legislation that wasn't like tim ryan who challenged her in 2016 or others who did not run against her back trying to oust her in 2018 it wasn't what she sees as her job the much more of internal and external factors. >> didn't go well for democrats in november if they keep the house? is it conceivable they keep the same leadership team going forward and then to have status quo? i think this is a crystal ball thing but is it probably the last hurrah? >> i know i have a firm policy against making predictions. but it hasn't and previously reported that back in 2018 there was the leadership race where she worked very hard to diffuse that because she she

could afford to lose less than 10 percent on the speak about on the house floor in order to be elected speaker she really had to win over everyone with a ideological group and caucus. so one of the conditions she finally accepted she agreed to term limits but basically she can serve no more than two terms and then according to the book she said i wasn't giving anything away i only plan to stay for one term anyway. a lot has changed since then but it does reveal that at the tim time, also by the way learning about negotiating

tactics, this is one of our great tactics is to pretend it's terribly painful to give up something that you are not giving up at all because you didn't mind giving it up or didn't want it in the first place so you see her in these negotiating postures that she gives up something terribly painful and she is not. >> watching this master negotiator does that help you anyway? >> yes. it has. a lot of these negotiating tactics came from her experience as a mother of five children in six years and ran an extremely disciplined household. friend of hers once said that she knew she was destined for political success with five

young children who all folded their own laundry. i'm not there yet with my three kids but toddlers and politicians have a lot in common they are both narcissistic. to make them feel of their egos to get them to do what you want to do feel these negotiating tactics they have learned from watching nancy pelosi and the fake confessions which is the name your price so what do i have to do to have you give me this and they name a price they think is outlandish or impossible. we don't let you put that on the national mall that if you

could find a way to lift up the quilt and you can do it. okay fine. and then every 20 minutes the park service has no choice but to say we didn't thank you could satisfy his condition me will give you what you want. >> you mentioned that representing san francisco that was very close to her and people that she knows and has been around for a while or at least since the eighties. and mitch mcconnell has talked of the outbreak and reminding him of his own experience of polio with that outbreak in

the out-of-control to have the new and scary disease that could be very fatal. i haven't formulated this into a question but. >> i have heard her make the comparison but i haven't heard everything she has said the last couple weeks but one of the parallels frankly the republican president at the time was slow to acknowledge it's a crisis that we have seen play out abundantly in the current situation and it took years for president reagan even to say the words hiv or aids so a big part of what she was a part of for the anti- gay community or those

who care about the issue, she wasn't wrong but what she had to do first before she could get help for the victims was to raise awareness and convince everyone on the political spectrum was a problem that had to be dealt with and had to be grappled with. so the surgeon general information about aids hard to let people know you can't get it from hugging her from the toilet and then just to get the information out there then the federal government did the same thing shortly thereafter going to hundreds of millions

of households for information packets. >> this could be in a category, not asking you to make a prediction but with that hypothetical, in november the democrats keep the house nancy pelosi stays on as speaker and donald trump is reelected. if the senate goes 50/50 so the president would have the deciding vote. do you find anything salvageable with the policy trump relationship do you think they could deal with each other? is there a middle ground?

do you see anything happening? >> i doubt it only because of the personal relationship. they haven't spoken in months because trump is mad at her for impeaching him. she is much more cold-blooded. she hasn't let her personal feelings decide if she will deal with someone on policy and she does have a firm set of policy convictions and the president does not. she has spent a lot of time to negotiate on infrastructure. this is when donald trump talks about building roads and bridges he sounds like a democrat. he wants to build a lot of stuff and she kept coming to that negotiating table until he walked away. he put his hands down is that i can't talk to you as long as

the witchhunt is going on. she could continue those policy negotiations even with the impeachment investigation was underway but the president was not. she is not an on - - there's nothing she can do about that and also as a matter of politics is obsessed to show the american people democrats are interested and passing that are sitting on mitch mcconnell's desk to send that message that they can trust the democrats that partisanship and gridlock with the left-wing but to be sensible and to get things done. this is part of why she continues to say he would do a

bill on infrastructure. there are areas of commonality. but the negotiations i think are fair to say are not ongoing. >> i don't see the live version of a picture of you so i can hear you so i will proceed. >> can you refresh your browser quickly? >> i can still see and hear everyone find. >> i can to. i'm getting a little bit of feedback is all. sorry everybody to stop the conversation but we will be back up and running quickly. >> there you bar. >> thank you. >> you mentioned impeachment

how did she get their? she was a hold out there were more aggressive members of the caucus who wanted to move pretty early on impeachment. was at the ukraine issue or the caucus? >> it was both she didn't want to admit it was the caucus though but it was fair to say she saw it was a pointless endeavor. she lived through the clinton impeachment she always called it a joke basically a political persecution have her class reasons and then when

she first became speaker she faced a constant drumbeat to impeach president bush. so she had code pink protester roaming the halls of congress and camped out in her yard and the antiwar activist ran against her in the primary with the unwillingness to impeach president bush so it's not as loud as we had the last couple of years. but that was another experience i informed her i didn't get into it then i thought it would be pointless and i think she felt the same way think she still does. she looks at impeachment in the rearview mirror we had to do it. the president forced us because of his conduct but what did it accomplish? people care about results above everything you don't see the point it will not be with

the president. you know it will not achieve anything tangible you have to know your why and her why is the children the children the children. she will always look at any particular political problem and say how does this feed a hungry child or human rights around the world. all impeachment did in her view puts on a divisive show that didn't accomplish anything. i think she does feel it puts president trumps name in the history books and she will say he's been impeached and he can't do anything to change that but other than that.

>> do you think she has regrets? >> she's not a person who has regrets. she says i don't do that. >> and she also doesn't do fear. >> is there anything? she always had a certain fondness but in always calling a gentleman all the time they seem to have something but if not a working relationship do you think there is anything about donald trump she has any use for or any respect for? >> no. i don't think so but again i don't speak for her and i don't want to or pretend to but i asked her version of the question. she says she doesn't disrespect the people who voted for him or be caught in

the basket of deplorable's her metaphor is do you know someone who was dating a jerk? you cannot tell the person they are dating a jerk and they will stop being friends with you. you have to try to show them what he is doing to them. i hope these people realize what the president is doing to them. but i don't blame them. >> interesting way of looking at it. has her office read the book? what after-the-fact checking do they know what's ahead? >> and had the book since it came out and they made it very clear they have no editorial

control this is my characterization. she was helpful in terms of giving me interviews and allowing me to interview a lot of people around her. but this is not authorized in the sense she signed off on the content. >> has she ever done authorized biography? >> she has written a memoir with the writer. there is a lot of good material in there i draw on in the book had the book since it was and galleys but they've been busy i understand so she's had a chance to look through it. >> i'm sure she's watching this. >> we continue to interact with her staff. >> not to contradict but the

cover is great but is a lack of subtitle now there is this subtitle industrial complex with political books with the title and then give the whole game away with the endless subtitles. there other graphics people that why do you just call it policy with nothing else and that graphic? >> i have to give a shout out to my publisher. the designers came up i never would have come up with something so hip and stylish. i love the cover is eye-catching and captures her and the tone of the book and a lot of what i have been talking about the way culture has caught up to her brand of femininity.

but also everyone knows who it is about from the title i cut people slack but to communicate why this is significant if i were writing about a lesser-known figure i would need to subtitle to tell you this is the man who detonated the atomic bomb to blow up mars. but everyone knows who she is. there's only one person you are talking about and for all of the wonderful qualities it's not him. i like the simplicity of it and the cover design and it also speaks for herself that she is figure famous enough to

she is. >> you don't have to sell the subject which is a nice luxury. >> so what made you decide to have such an unintrusive voice in the book? there's a lot of people who have interviews like i do and you have a sense of what it is like to be in the room with them and talk to them to have the author's voice comes through. you can talk about your own experience. you really stand back. how did you decide to write in the voice that you did? did you develop this over time getting into the narrative? >> i'm not sure if that was a conscious decision. as a profile writer i often write in the first person it can help bring a reader into

the story. in this case i just wanted to tell her story in a novelistic fashion to feel like a work of storytelling versus reporting so there's not a lot of direct quotations in the book or a contemporaneous sort of people that i have interviewed looking back and reflecting on what happened to be because i wanted to keep in the moment and people to feel they experience this as that happened but it's tricky i've never written a book before and i've never done a biography it's an interesting problem all biographers want to be inside and outside your subject at the same time and to have a little bit of objectivity and to be somewhat

skeptical people will judge if i did that successfully but that's what i was trying to do. >> i am using to q&a. we will turn this over to her audience they will take questions. is there a way to ask questions now i'm just throwing this over four technology i hope somewhere in the near future questions will appear before me and you will act on them. >> it says ask a question the list will come up. >> see? here we go. >> i will pick which one.

what is the most surprising thing you learned about speaker pelosi? >> it's hard to say at this point but one of the things that surprised me about her and she came up at a time when it is not culturally acceptable to be strong and assertive that she is a real risk taker and a gambler willing to put herself out there and get an people's faces now from ripping up trumps speech or chasing down a reporter saying don't mess with me but this goes all the way back to the earliest days

of her career always willing to get an people's faces it comes from her defense of feminism she feels able to advocate for herself in that way one of my favorite lesser-known stories of her career is her activism on human rights in china. in 1991, traveled to beijing with her colleagues and on the last day of the state sanctioned trip they told the chinese authorities they were too tired to go on the tour of the great wall and snuck out the back of the hotel. took a taxi to tiananmen square and one of the

congressman who fund fact was on the dukes of hazard smuggled a banner in his underwear from hong kong and pulled it out and it said for those who died for democracy in china and immediately they were attacked by the chinese police who chase them out and detained some of the journalist that were covering this. you can still see it on video so she wrist bodily harm to stage this bold demonstration for what she believed in. politically as well back in 2003 with the top democrats and the democratic house leader at the time thought it would be bad politics for the iran war she came out against it and went against the war

resolution enter own leadership because she believes so strongly it was the wrong thing to do and as the top democrat on the intelligence committee she's known for her toughness but that boldness which powered her to where she is today to run for leadership and literally no woman ever had a top leadership position in either house of congress still the only woman to leader house and has to take on the male-dominated establishment is only 23 women in the house of representatives when she got there out of 435 members so they said who said she could run and they said i need

your permission this is because i believe i can do it. >> did policy have a frustration with obama cabinet and experience? >> yes. that is a big theme in the book about the obama era she and obama became very close with a lot of mutual respect. i don't want to make it seem there's a grudge between them but there was some congressional coverage over the obama years that the president didn't pay enough attention to them or that he wasn't a great negotiator dealing with the republicans that he gave up too much up

front and he made a promise of bipartisanship and consensus to bring people together and then republicans realized we can keep him from fulfilling the promise and realize that a long time before and was frustrated to try to get republicans to do things she didn't think they were negotiating in good faith. a lot of the frustration came and that dynamic. >> the most votes i will ask. after speaker pelosi's ability to have diverse actions even

on the challenging issues. what strategies day do you identify how she could do this? >> this is always been the great strength it is a great contrast to those speakers who proceeded her they fell apart while john boehner that they were unable to keep their caucus together that it so diverse the freedom caucus people and a liberal district and more conservative district that the democratic caucus is far more diverse demographically and ideologically.

and she is very good and from the time she became a democratic leader she was but a party on the discipline changing the rules to make it harder for members to vote against the caucuses. and similar to the mothering strategies and she's not mad at you and just disappointed.

and mentioning these negotiating strategies. and what i ended up concluding in a larger sense that to have an incredible memory for details not only does she know that but and what your priorities are and what issues you are interested in and the make up your distric district. all of that she just knows all of her people and maintains

those relationships and a lot of times all it takes to just listen to the people. trying to talk someone into something to keep them in the negotiating session because she has outlasted them. >> we now have over 500 people on the attendance list. before i asked the next question i want to thank everyone for coming but since were all on computers they will be a tendency to buy this you cannot do that you should do it on the politics and prose either online or in ordering thing they can tell you about. thank you for being here. the next question follows on

what you were talking about did you talk to nancy pelosi what it was like growing up in a family in baltimore? so there was an old school political ways so i'm wondering what she talks about her political background and what that was like and how it was applied to congress. >> her father was a congressman from baltimore but the time she was seven he was the mayor and this is old school democratic machine urban politics patronage and paper trading demographics and a political boss who controls them both so i definitely

think you can see that old school political style in the tactics that she uses that the same time a lot of what i tried to do is refocus attention on her mother. so natural to see those areas joining the family business. but she always takes pains to say she was shaped equally by the influence of her mother. and she talks very openly which is interesting how her mother felt stifled and was never able to achieve her goals because she was a woman she wanted to go to law school and sell a beauty product that she patented but the husband were not give her his signature which women needed at that time. not to be hypocritical but her mother was in a strong

assertive lady and also not afraid to get people's faces. once she punched a poll worker in the face she was mad at. she ran on of the political operations for her husband her name was on the ballot that she was running the club out of the basement and the operation out of the family parlor it would take people's names, write them on a pad for what they needed to get into the hospital or the housing project or whatever. her mother was a big part of that work so it's very ground-level and grassroots if you are in urban and politician have to know every block and precinct you just

can't have expensive television ads but you have to get out there. that is still the advice she gives to candidates. that's the way you think of electoral politics down at the ground level. her older brother who later became mayor of baltimore who was a mentor call that human nature in the raw. >> we have time for a couple more. this question has a lot of support from the voters. has missed one - - ms. pelosi ever been interested running for the senate or president?

>> no and yes. there was a time in politics isn't long list of patent potential candidates and always said she was and interested she never dangled any hints and every politician says this that if somebody asks you are supposed to say no i am working in the house with the people of the district. but she has been saying that long enough it is believable. it is a big part of her power which is a very smart

observation from jessica because her members know she is in trying to make a name for herself. and her predecessor everyone knows he wanted to be the president so everyone knew he also had his eye on the next thing and the ambition and state government was going on and she has never had that. no members of the caucus think she just tries to pass the resume. so that gives her a lot of credibility that she's focused on looking out for their interest. >> this is the last question.

>> what access did you get to the speaker? >> a series of interviews. and working on the biography. she never invited me or showed me around her house or introduce me to her family. there is a formality to her. she has good relationships but not the chummy politician so i talk about that and the

reporting process and i never felt that i never got inside her head. but she doesn't engage in public introspection and is a fundamentally private person. >> i will say it again. it is a great book. thank you all for being here. i know you are all wearing mask masks. >> i came a very long way. up a flight of stairs. >> everybody by the book. thank you for watching us.

>> before we close tonigh tonight, thank you for being here in the audience. in this was a lovely conversation about a personal favorite figure of mine at least. and we encourage you to buy the book from politics and prose your patronage allows us to stay up and running right now book sales are crucial. we are offering you the option tonight to donate to politics and prose. we are accepting those donations but definitely purchase policy tonight.

we have a lot of other great events coming up down the pipeline i urge you to click on the logo above but until then i hope to see you again. stay well and well read and take care everybody. goodbye. . . . . c-span has on for tilled coverage of congress and the white house, the supreme court of public policy events. you can watch all of c-span's public affairs programming on television, online or listen on every radio app. be a part of the national

conversation through c-span's daily washington journal program or through our social media feeds. c-span created by america's table television company as a public service brought to you today by your television provider. and this week on "the communicators" our guest is shirley bloomfield of npca, the rural broadband association. she is the ceo there and our guest reporter from tele conditions report is paul kirby. shirley bloomfield, who do you represent? >> guest: i represent about 850 community-based broadband providers across the country and they are in 46 states. they are the company that traditionally were the local phone companies that had to resolve and it resolved very quickly to become a broadband provider so they truly are the