book, and i look forward to engaging with people in the future and i'll leave the last few seconds to john. >> thank you to our audience, thank you to kiron skinner of carnegie mellon university, thank you presidential historian tevi troy and author of the book we've been discussing today, "fight house: rivalries in the white house from true iman to trump. -- truman to trump." ♪ ♪

but most importantly please find a link to paul's book, you can click on the link and purchase please go ahead and purchase paul's book and help support the discourse that he's -- he's lending to all of us in the next few months and beyond. i just want to say that any night of the week we would be thrilled to have one of our guests but together is a hallelujah movement. i don't know if you're counting or shows the days, minutes and seconds until the election but if you're not counting there are 88 days remaining. personally i wish that the election was today but we have to wait 88 days and as i said

given what's riding on the outcome, trust honor and pleasure to introduce my old colleague and friend paul begala for tonight's events. he will tell us how democrats can win in november, that would, of course, if we are successful, leave one of the two plagues ravaging our nation. [laughter] >> paul will be explaining new book. when you read it, you will encounter some of electoral college and trump tramp and keeping one's eyes on the concerns of voters and not getting sidetracked by the other big giant elephant in the room. why do we listen to paul? one of the chief strategists, main architects of the successful clinton presidential

campaign in 1992, he then served as counselor to the president and the white house, that's where i had the wonderful big fortune of being able to work with him. he helped run superpark that was instrumental in electing barack obama in 2012. he has written 6 books, he's a commentator and you've probably seen him at cnn and teaches at georgetown and sometimes he has made it through decades in politics with sense of humor, optimistic and cheerful spirit and most importantly integral integrity intact. thank you, paul, it is still possible to be the person that you are in the political world. >> thank you. >> maybe you already have it, you will see blurbs, here is the front. you can see it behind the back, you will see blubbers from bill

clinton, nancy pelosi, james, even willy nelson, but the most flattering blurb comes from someone else. this is what donald trump says about paul begala, knowingly committed fraud in first ad against me. paul clearly you are getting under the man's skin, well done. may all democratic candidates and voters and other republican who is are never trumpers read your book and heed your wise council in next 88 days. paul's conversation with donna brazile, first african american woman to serve as manager of major presidential campaign. he ran former vice president al gore's campaign in 2000. she's the author of some really great books and best sellers, coauthor of wonderful terrific

book for colored girls that consider politics. like paul, donna is widely respected as strategist and communicator and commentator and we are lucky to have both of them tonight. thank you, paul, thank you, donna for being with us. the floor is yours. >> thank you, to politics and prose, my favorite bookstore and look to browsing in the store and getting cup of coffee. >> i miss you, i wish i could see you in perp. >> if we were together we would be chewing on something and drinking something cold. so, paul, i read a lot of books and obviously read the first couple of pages and put it away but the thing that grabbed me about this book and the reason i

think people should read it is that you not only tell us the problems but you also tell us how democrats should run in 2020, let me start by asking you one question, what went wrong in 2016? >> wow, well, first like you hillary got more votes than the other guy which like in a real democracy would matter, right, it's only happened 4 to 5 times in the previous years and twice under in the last 20 where vice president al gore won. it's almost like black swan. the left in the party was convinced that she was going to win they felt comfortable casting protest vote. dr. jill stein and governor gary johnson did better than usually third-parties do. second, you had unprecedented

invasion, foreign invasion, foreign intelligence, you were running the party when this was happening. they hacked us and they manipulated us and the media went for it. the press covered hillary's emails more than any other story about trump combined. that was the second thing. third, you had this really obscene act scene by the then fbi director, he attacked her anyway. 11 days before the election, that's what finally did it. here is what i got wrong. i could have done more, i could have done better. i was helping the hillary super pac and we had all the money in the world and we were running against just a really awful person, he says racist things, islamophobic things, gay, mocked

a pow, senator mccain, insulted a man's disability, "the new york times". i got distracted by that which i focused on character, it was abysmal, necessary but not sufficient. the presidency is still a job interview and if somebody is a horrible person maybe they can do a really good job, right, i didn't connect it up to the retiree in pennsylvania or the office worker in michigan or the farmer in wisconsin and tell them how their life would be worse and i tell a story in the book, 3 weeks before the election, probably like gore, the hardest election and post election i've ever gone through and lisa is right i'm generally a happy person. i was miserable, my joke is like i sleep like a baby and i wake up crying, one night i woke up and i told my wife who is an

army brat and i figured it out and we ran ads in wisconsin how trump talks about women and people of color and veterans and pow's and they saw that and that -- that life, harold, we can't vote for a man like that because there's mid western all-american families and haroll, turns around and he will not grab you open up but he will open up a factory by harvey, i didn't connect to harell and harvey's wife. but to make it about voters not about trump. see this is the trump trap lisa referred to. every narcissist wants the

conversation to be about himself and what i failed to do, what i want democrats to do now is turn the camera away from trump and turn back to farm family. i note this. i wrote a whole chapter about rural america and i sent it to him and he loved it. nobody has fought harder for family farmers than willy nelson and we have to reconnect with folks. instead of telling people trump is a pig, people say, i know that, but how does it affect me? >> 88 days and you were writing a book that trump would like to make it about him but we need to make it about the voters, the trump trap as you just mentioned, still major issue in the news, can democrats learn anything from 2016 and really focus on those issues that matter instead of continuing to focus on donald trump. >> i hope, i hope. covid changes every.

i think this is the first political strategy. i did two things. i grew a beer and wrote a book. you knew me. >> i had it all over. 33 years. so -- i wrote it during covid and it's more important now, you know, it is as stacy abrams has said and many others, vote as if your life depends on it because it does, it really does. politics is not any longer what i said, what i call show business for ugly people, it's a real thing, it's your life and today there's a good example today. donald trump goes out and says, hey, maybe i will give my convention speech from the white house, right, and we all get our panties in a watt, it's a violation, it's criminal and appalling but has no affect on

herell ethel's life in wisconsin. he should give it at a cemetery because it embodies presidency in white house. it's hard to do because he distracts us. all good people are raised when they hear something misogynist and racist to say, woe, cut that out, he uses that division and diversion. >> you say diversion is trump super power. >> god help us covid makes it a lot less effective, but it's also turning the camera back. and i love them anyway but i went and really studied barack obama and bill clinton, both subjected to terrible personal attacks and in each case they refused to rise to the bait.

barack obama, it took himself months, years before he released first certificate, not because he wasn't born in honolulu. he knew it was a trap, they were trying to steal election from health care, issues he was running on and he explained that very well. he would hold that the attack. why is trump saying there? in joe's case he will come after his son, why is he attacking my family because he hasn't done anything for your family and believe me, win or lose, my family are going to be just fine, the question is will your family be just fine. if he allows you to be diverted thinking about my son who is a fine man, don't fall for it. keep the focus on your son, your daughter, your granddaughter. i think that's the way to do and, again, i say this only because i failed the last time and president clinton was nice enough to read the book and he did, he reminded that was first law politics, politics is always

about people and not about us. >> in 2018 you write in the book that the democrats were able to flip 41 house seats that trump won in 2016. how did democrats do that? >> if there's a hero in the book or goat is me in terms of screwing up, if it's a hero it's nancy pelosi, oh, my god, i love that woman. all the big shots, even though they say she's terrible, she's terrible, no, no, she let us out of the wilderness. she began with recruitment and recruitment began with diversity. our republican, right-wing friends and we both have a lot of them and i think it's a blessing. they think our commitment to diversity is about kumbaya touchy-feely weakness, it's about bringing in the best team. when you expand the talent pool, you get new talent. she recruited more women of color than democrats put on the floor ever and recruited people

with national security backgrounds, intelligence backgrounds, defense backgrounds, really cool interesting diverse backgrounds as well as diversed genders and -- and race. that was the first thing. recruit diverse. she also, you know, she said this to me once, meet people where they live. >> right. >> she met people where they live. aoc ran in aoc's district. former nfl player, civil rights lawyer, african-american man who represents george w. bush's white texas district, that's terrific, that's terrific. he did it not -- he didn't campaign on mueller and impeachment, he campaigned on health care and prescription drugs. so diversity first, matching the districts, moderates ran in moderates districts, progressive ran in progressive districts.

she funded them and did all the nuts and bolts right too. that to me was all the most -- it became a title wave but she didn't make it about trump. in 2010 they ran ads attacking president obama and republicans took the house. democrats didn't do that, they ran after health care, prescription drugs and even though trump was not popular, they actually got elected with a mandate for change instead of hating on trump. i think she's a genius. >> one thing, paul, you and i both know this that we constantly argue about targeting the white-working class versus mobilizing, in the book you address both of the issues and you also talk about the rise of the american leftist, why -- why is it so important that we get it right this time? >> because as you did it as party chair and campaign manager, you have to do both, you have to do both. you know, i think it was donna,

reverend jackson told me how a plane has to have left wing and right wing or it won't fly. he's inarguably correct about that. that's what our party needs. these primary this week, i didn't know anything about her, i watched her after williams lacy clay. she's amazing, my view is the party needs new blood. i don't care if it comes from the left ventricle or right ventricle. we also need to reach out to people who are in pain and turn to donald trump because they wanted a reckon ball, we can't get all of them, we don't have to. we just have to lose a little less. we can get back to

white-working class vote levels that we had with barack obama, not even bill clinton, joe would win big. it's because the truth is i looked this up, we lost not to covid but 170,000 to overdoes, some in the cities, some in the country, we lost 38,000 people last year, by the way, the death by drug overdoes is highest ever i think. highest in years. death by guns, handgun violence, 38,000, some in cities, some in suburbs, some on the farms. the pain is the same and it's our job to stitch that back together and turn the pain into purpose. whether it's a farmer got forbid whose kid is addicted opioids or a mom in the inner city, it's the same pain. i'm looking for ways to stitch them back together. i don't think we should be at

war, cities against suburbs in countries. >> why is it important that we reach out to rural america? >> well, first, it's important, we are democrats, we love and we care, that's number 1. number 2, their pain and their problems are very similar and we we can, not all of them, but we can find common cause with them and third there's a practical political matter which is the senate is rigged. the united states senate with or without filibuster is rigged. that was a compromise, when they made it, virginia had the most people, delaware had the least. the difference was 12 and a half times. virginia was 12 and a half times population of delaware. you know what the gap is now

california and wyoming, 64. 64. there's only 600,000 people in the whole state of wyoming and they get two senators, there's 600,000 people stuck on traffic in 405, we don't have a senator for 405 in la. the senator is wigged, it seems that we have oh to win in places like west virginia. both president obama's bill and clinton's economic plan, were put over the top by democratic senators from nebraska, bob kerry in clinton's case. >> i agree with you. let's discuss the issues that might defeat donald trump in 2020. you mentioned in the book, medicare,s is -- social security and medicaid. why those issue? >> medicare, medicare and social security always essential in pandemic are existential. we take that away from people

and they will die and it turns out medicaid, medicare and social security are disproportionately helping trump voters, i think that's great. i want trump voters to be living a dignified retirement but trump proposed 2 trillion-dollar cut in social security, medicare and medicaid. last two budgets, two, last two budgets did that. and democrats haven't broken through with that, i think, because of the diversion that we talk about. if you just tell people even trump voters, trump proposed twice in a row cutting $2 trillion from medicare, medicaid and social security, same amount he took from us in corporate america and paying for corporate tax cut by cutting grandma's medicare and social security. he will lie and say joe will do it or hillary. we have him on tape. he went to davos in switzerland,

he would cut that, he went to fox news that he would cut medicare, medicaid and social security and it's in his budget. i think we ought to hang that around his neck. i say in the book people should step their watch for every ten minutes and say, you know, boy, it's terrible the astros cheated in the world series and medicaid, medicare and social security trump is trying to cut them. i have young kids. trump wants to cut medicare, medicaid and social security. anything you're talking about, just throw it in. >> paul, let me ask you about health care, you also talked about health care in the book. president trump proposed a couple of weeks ago that he was going to come up with a health care plan. in your book you said we need to hammer donald trump on cutting, taking away health care, explain why? >> this is why nancy pelosi is speaker again.

41 districts who had republican congressmen voted them out and put democrats in because we are the party of health care and i'm -- you know, somebody told me this, donna, i don't know if it's the public but i know it's true. they said when president obama met with president elect trump, one of the things president obama said, just take my name off of it and make it trump care, it doesn't matter. what a big hearted thing. it's pretty amazing. of course, trump didn't listen and he should have. now that president obama is gone and obamacare has never been more popular. the joke i say to right-wing friends, obama is gone so it's not obamacare it's just care. democrats need to run on that. mr. trump is in court as we speak asking the right-wing judges he's appointed to throw out the entire affordable care act which would take 27 million people, throw them out of health

care and takes 29 million americans and make them vulnerable again to insurance companies jacking up rates and throwing out because of preexisting conditions. preexisting conditions, being a woman as preexisting condition. you know, we are really in trouble if we let trump do that. we have to tell people that. we get so distracted by twitter war, you know, with rosie o'donnell that we don't come back to people's lives. >> paul, in the book you have a chapter, it's still the economy stupid, i had to read it twice, chapter 10. you pointed out that the president is constantly trying to paint a rosy picture of the economy precovid and democrats have to get back on top of the economy, why is that? >> yeah, i think joe did last

week. i thought the speech was terrific. what i want democrats to put put trump tax on trial. president obama came in and the entire world economy was destroyed and built it up back 832 billion, 832. trump comes in and chugging along just fine and corporate profits at all-time high. what does he do? he cuts taxes by 2 trillion, he spends more than twice the amount of money, our money on bailing out corporations that have record profits than obama did saving the global economy, so we have to put that on trial. my favorite line of speech of joe's was when he said, when joe biden is president the days of amazon paying zero taxes are over, right, i love amazon, great american company but by goalie, why should my little 2-person firm, my wife and me, why should we pay more in taxes than the wealthiest man on earth. it's crazy. democrats should put that on trial.

it's what clinton would call stone on the ground, reach down and pick it up. >> one of the strategies for defeating joe biden is paint him as being taken over by the left, the radical left to have democratic party, how can we tunnel that narrative? >> first, it's hard to make that stick with joe, he's middle-class joe from scranton and he's got a long record of riding the mainstream in the democratic party. they do, they want to put the squad on trial. they happened to be women of color, donna, it has nothing to do with that, of course, they always -- they always go there. i don't think -- for example, the vice president did a right thing, right away at the jump, no, no, we are not defunding the police so did congresswoman karen bass.

she wrote what it's called -- >> the george floyd act. >> social workers can do social work and policemen and women can do police work. so i think what both vice president biden on a national level and congresswoman bass who is rumored to be up for the ticket, i think she did a terrific job of turning that. you can't get any traction with it and i actually, you know, i always want to jiu-jitsu and socialism is the government giving things to people and probably no welfare queen in american history than donald j trump, he's taken more money from the government and he's doing it every day today and overcharging the secret service for golf carts and stays at the resort. you have to deflect and turn the attack back on trump.

>> before we get to some of the questions and i see them filling up right now that will make this quick, you tell democrats how to run on the issues and you added some ingredients and i just want to put them out there, personalize, humanize and localize, why is that? >> amen. i think a lot of democrats, you know, they are intellectuals, i'm not, i'm a proud texas longhorn lsu tiger, i think that's an advantage, i have a lot of friends that went to harvard, yale, princeton, they are great, i think it's an advantage. it's what they used to say put the jam on the lower shelf so little folks can reach it. we have to meet at senator said meet people where they live and so when we talk about abstraction, section 8 housing, okay, that doesn't -- as george bush said that doesn't resinate with anybody. when corey bush says, i was homeless and i've been able to live the american dream and get elected likely to congress, that

personizes it, it humanizes it and it's absolutely essential. we talk about programs too much and people too little and i do think actually it's a biden strength. he's very good even though he's been a legislator all of his life. he's very good about remembering about people. this is a people business we are in and it's far better to tell one story about one person than it is to give a whole statistic of government program. >> well, give us an example, let's talk about climate change, why is that important, you also address that in your book? >> i do and asp donna as i told you my momma is watching this, she's part of the zoom. >> hi, mom. >> i was talking to mom and she pointed out that the lake where her grandfather, my mother is still young, but her grandfather 100 years ago had cabin in place lake in new jersey.

her grandfather was iceman, they would cut ice and take it and refrigerated cars in new york city and sell it to people. so that's -- that was his job. that lake today, i looked it up global warming has gotten so bad that the ice doesn't form, used to be 2 feet thick, 100 years ago my great grandfather could take 2-foot of ice and sell it in new york city, today you can't even skate on it because it's so hot and in the summers, my mother swam in the beautiful lake, today you can't swim in it, you can't, skate on it in the winter because it doesn't freeze and you can't swim because it gets horrible algae, toxic algae which would kill your dog and do terrible damage to you. a lady let dog swim and the dog died from toxic algae. my mother can't swim in the lake where she grew up, right, this

woman in austin who i learned about, her dog died because he fetched a stick at a lady-bird lake. i think that tells people a lot more than just giving them the -- the global science. >> and the stats, i agree with you on that. i know you are a great student of political science, what senate races are you following and why? >> man, all of them, all of them. you see the quinnipiac today? >> south carolina? >> yes. >> my friend and colleague on the dnc. >> yeah, no finer person. >> 44-44. >> 44-44, tied. if you go from lindsey graham to harrison, you get the bins, to jamie who is a really terrific person and he is in a dead heat in south by god carolina. >> absolutely. >> i've been in touch with all of them.

i can't, i don't know about you but my deal with cnni can't no longer work for politicians but i can volunteer. i've been burning up the zoom lines doing campaigning for all candidates. mj is a bad-ass texas woman who rides motorcycle, reminds me of ann richards. >> can we turn texas blue? >> yes. abc, rival network, texas is a toss-up state. texas. john cornyn favor is 36. >> do you know her personal story? >> i knew her opponent. >> mj, she was a pilot in the army, rescuing wounded soldiers in afghanistan, a soldier gets wounded, she gets the call,

helicopter gets shot down and mj gets shot and she's bleeding out, they send another chopper in and rescued woman soldier and mj and terrorists start fighting again. you know what mj did bleeding returned fire. so i love that race. i would even watch al gross in alaska. independent, likely caucus for democrats but he's a doctor but commercial fishermen and i think senator sullivan is vulnerable like cornyn, he hasn't done anything. texas, south carolina, montana, we have really good candidates in unlikely places and i think this could be a really good year for senate democrats. >> i know that you wrote the book and you indicated that

donald trump has appointed over 112 judges to the federal court, it's all but 200. how is trump using the courts to hurt the average worker, you address that in the book? >> yeah, it is their two long-range things. now, i can't wait to see trump gone and i want -- i i want to fumigation and excorcism. he's stacked federal judiciary with young ultra-right wing lawyers, they are going to be there for years and years and it just breaks my heart. i tell the story of kavanaugh and gorsuch, famous judges that trump put out there and it's just shameful, it's shameful and

this is going to take years and years to rehabilitate the federal courts and -- and by the way, i know didn't appoint him but i still carry no grief for chief justice roberts. i'm sorry, i know i'm supposed to be nice because he ruled on choice and lgbt stuff once or twice. john roberts gutted the voting rights act. most important legislation in our lifetime and now because that's been gutted you have people like brian kemp and others who are manipulating the system to disadvantage people of color. >> by the way, paul, today is the 55th anniversary of voting rights act of fellow texan johnson. let me take some of the

questions. >> i hold this out when mr. louis was buried. i was so hon order, i stood 2 and a half hours in line just to walk past capitol, he was up at the top of the stairs, we couldn't touch the coffin because of covid. you loved him and i loved him. he gave it to me on july 1998, with faith and hope keep your eye on the prize. you know what, that's -- i treasure that and the prize for him was voting, the prize for him was voting rights and -- and i miss him desperately and now that voting rights are at risk. i know this, he left us happy and thrilled with how young people have taken up the torch and how young people have working for voting rights.

you've been central, donna. >> paul, we have several questions that have come in and one question is along the line about voter suppression, how do we combat voter suppression in the 2020 election? >> well, look at -- i tell the story about what stacy abrams did. lost by less than the amount of votes that were purged. she was running against sitting secretary of state who was manipulating the purge. i don't know what i would have done but great likelihood that i would have move today alaska and gone fishing. stacy not decided to get bitter but better. she's working her heart out in georgia which has two senate seats and she's helping in texas. so we have to organize around the suppression, okay, people -- everybody tell your friends, neighbors, your kids, your parents, vote.org and you can check your status, they might be purging you and you don't know.

vote.org, check status, second vote early, vote by mail, absentee if it's allowed in your state. ran the numbers in colorado, 100% vote by mail, the fraud rate is, get this, 0.0001, that is 1 ten million of a percent. it's perfectly safe. i think we have to be vigilant and insist on paper. speaker pelosi has been great about this and she's pushing, pushing still in negotiation out to make sure that the postal service is funded. there's another idea, you know, our great party chair in michigan talking about this and party chair in ohio, they are advocating in addition to vote by mail drop boxes, just put a drop box at the police station, government center, the fire house, you can secure it. you don't have to use the mail, okay, if you're worried about

the postal system being overwhelmed and we should be, a lot of places and i know they are working on this and others, you can drop that thing in a secure box. >> the president said that a child could put his or her hand in the box and can't steal it. >> you can't put a hand in the atm machine. i'm sure if they figured it out for an atm machine they can figure it out in a ballot box. >> as you know that there's talk that is the russians may be at it again, why not, it was a successful playbook in 2016, what are your thoughts on how to counteract with this? >> you were a victim of the crime, donna, most successful foreign interference. senator mccain called it act of war. this is my quibbles with the

media, they call it meddling. no, your neighbor comes to your medicine cabin, that's meddling. general has written about this too, he calls it a 9/11 or pearl harbor and we have got to get engaged and our defenses are better, first. but they are going to do different things. in the book i predict and i hope i'm wrong but i think i'm right, they are going to use deep think videos this time. there's technology that didn't exist 4 years ago that can make a video, jordan does this with president obama and it's hilarious and we can tell it's a fake, they will create videos that look like joe biden or maybe his son or somebody saying or doing some awful things that's completely fake, we have

to be on guard against that and some of this is a bit of a character test, frankly, for the media, will they fall for it? i think defenses and guards need to be up as well and i think they are but we have got to be aware that this is still going on and not just dismiss it as meddling, sally yates, former assistant attorney general testified this week and she said it's ongoing, it's going on still and i'm quite sure she's right. >> one of the questions i have here refers to professor alan litman, 13 keys in presentation in new york times, presidential electoral politics? >> i saw that and i like alan. the key is you. the key is you, the key is voting. nobody knows. it really is -- it's incumbent on all of us who work in vineyards but also incumbent on folks to engaging in vote.

we had in 2018 the highest midterm turnout in 100 years, the highest turn out since women got the right to vote because nancy pelosi and team engaged folks but also folks engaged us. there's a ground swell out there. i read alan's stuff and he's a really good guy and smart guy, i'm less sort of deterministic, right, i think it's really in our hands and folks in 2018 decided they wanted democrats to take over the house and so they did it. i think -- i think they are ready to fire this guy and but it's totally up to them and up to those whose job it has been and now to motivate them. >> paul, this is a wonky question and i can't help you with the answers so let's see if we can do this, besides explaining that trump has proposed medicare, medicaid and social security cuts, democrats need to explain that gop plan

would have been in high risk, premiums up to $10,000 per month as they did preaca. when i explain to to my friends that are cancer survivors, they were horrified, what are your thoughts on this? >> it's 100% right. this is one of the lies that the republicans will tell. i don't people with preexisting conditions to lose coverage, yeah, they'll put you in a high-risk pool and charge you $10,000, that's not insurance, that's highway robbery. it is -- we are all at risk, 129 million people under the age of 65, of course, medicare you're in no matter preexisting thank god and thank lyndon johnson, but those over 65, we could be subject again and as you age, we know this because we are aging, as you age the likelihood of you getting a

preexisting condition goes up to 85% by the time you turn 60 or 65 because life happens, it's fine when you're 25, but life is preexisting condition. it is completely at risk and these republicans, it's not just trump, he's in there, but the republican attorney general of texas tim paxton, he's in court, a bunch of attorney generals around the country are in court taking away health care by decent tax-paying americans, taking away from americans that pay his health care. i didn't have a separate chapter on it. it's throughout the whole thing. i do think the blm movement has been absolutely essential.

it's had a big impact on me. it's about 5% of people who are unsuredded and it's about 9 and a half percent african americans and 20% latinos, so there's still structural systematic racism. perhaps i should have done a chapter on it but i think actually that conversation, i love being part of it but i think it's got to be led, you know, by communities of color. i try to shine a light on some of the good work that lots of people are doing in there. >> i got some more questions. should biden debate 45? the best liar and distracter in the history of the world, should biden participate in all 3 of those debates? >> 100%, 100%. hillary wiped the floor in the debates, she won every debate by

-- around 60/30 in the polls. she wiped the floor with the guy and he hasn't gotten better in four years, he's gotten worse. look, let's be honest, trump is like a glacier, slowly melting, he's having to cast every day, he's melting down and that's why he says that joe is not competent because he -- he sees his own, i think, ineptitude and i think 100% joe has to debate and i think he will wipe the floor with this guy. >> how do assess weaknesses and strengths of potential vp candidate? >> i like them all. i will say we've had 48 vice presidents, so far my people white men, we are doing all right. we are actually 48-48.

so just to even it up, right, we would have to have nothing but women as vice presidents until the year 2251. i think it's wonderful that joe has committed to nominating a woman because as we said earlier, when you expand the -- the circle of opportunity you expand the talent pool that you get in. all the names that they've mentioned i probably know most of them, some very well. they're all terrific. i don't mean to be weesly but i know that vice president biden has had that job and i believe he's going to choose the person he thinks first most important god forbid something happens but second, good willing, who would be my governing partner the way he was for barack obama and he knows that role better than anybody.

i don't know where that leads him and i bet you knowing joe and you know him a long time that the -- the interview, the personal connection, that's going matter a lot, it did for president clinton, governor clinton, it wasn't until he sat down with al gore and by the time gore was down the hall, he is just done. they had a chemistry which they had no idea they would have. so i don't know, but i think these names that they're mentioning are just phenomenal, they are terrific. >> i want to bring up something right before we started talking about your amazing book. i noticed that the word catholic is trend, we are both catholic and the reason it's trending is because this is what the president said, joe biden will hurt the bible, hurt god, this is a direct quote, paul. he's against god. it's trending. long-time member of st. joseph catholic church in greenville,

delaware. joe biden who have gone to mass with, joe biden who is a practicing catholic, devoted catholic, faithful man, the president said today joe biden will hurt the bible, hurt god, he's against god. >> it's amazing. he projects. look, i never took freshmen psychology so i shouldn't try to diagnose the man. he seems to me he accuses others what he's guilty of. hillary said, absolute truth, she tried to warn us, hillary said, putin wants you, he's intervening in our election, he wants to have a puppet, no puppet, no puppet, you're a puppet. nonsensical. i can't judge his faith. but when he -- he questioned dr. ben carson's faith who is aerfully -- powerfully devout

christian and he does this when he knows perhaps people of faith can see in joe a spirit as they do to dr. carson. it's reprehensible. how do you hurt god, i have to answer, how do you hurt god, well, sin, and deadly sins and the 7 deadly sins i will lose some of them, greed, sloth, oh gosh, what are the rest. i have to look them up. but if you list the 7 deadly sins you basically get a description of donald j trump. >> absolutely. speaking of donald trump, by the way, what i love in your book every chapter you gave us another work for j. i never thought about that.

[laughter] >> i love that. many believe that trump will refuse to leave the white house even if he loses, what should we do to prepare for this eventuality. >> i give credit to him in the book, bill mahr was the first to raise it. he knows trump and says he will never leave. i think he's right. it's the first time in american history that we have an uncurvant and reasonable people are concerned that he will relinquish power. it means that joe has to win by more. he's got to win by so much that they can't steal it which is why i want him to target texas, i want him to georgia, state thatt is we haven't won't in a generation. we have won arizona once since

roosevelt. >> yeah. >> but we can win it, joe can win it. it's not fair, you know, you and i -- we always knew 270 was it and no bonus point for getting 370. >> that's right. >> you cross the goal line. this is different. joe needs to not only cross the goal line, into dressing room and parking lot and out to bus. he has to win so much and that's on us and it's tremendous pressure on republicans in the senate and, you know, and in the house. you couldn't find a spine in the republican senate except for mitt romney if you had an mri and cat scan and electron microscope, but they will have to grow up and call him on this. if we win by a lot, that will make a big difference but i am terribly worried about that. >> the book, you have perfect guy to beat donald trump, one of my best chapters, this is one

chapter that i will recommend to my students, you to serve somebody, tell us about that. >> you know, i was privileged to work for president trump and when he was in the oval office with georgia h.w. bush this is what president bush said to him, i really hope that you'll keep the foundation, programs, and president clinton said i guaranty you, i will give you my word i think you will like what we do with it. he expanded -- clinton expanded that with americ corp and president obama expanded it and bipartisan tradition of america, but still even after 25 years there are 75,000 people in ameri corp. i get their unemployment rate is

40%, so they need jobs. they need work, they need the skills you get at work. they need help to pay for education, so what i'm proposing is that we throw open the doors of national service to any person who wants to serve their country. you know, the marine corps is not for everybody and peace corps is not for everybody, but americorp is. the national parks have a backlog of $12 billion of repairs that these folks could do. the need is endless. young people, you teach -- young people, this is the second greatest generation, second time we've produced the greatest generation. i think the young people are phenomenal and will save us all. let's give them a chance. i'm a huge, huge believer in this and chris coons of delaware who has the senate seat joe biden once held introduced a

bill with a bunch of republican cosponsors to take americorp to 75,000 to a million and i call that a good start. it's something that should be a signature issue for joe biden in the campaign. >> well, before we leave, paul, you -- and in the last chapter you talked about why trump is in it for himself and why it's important to make this about us, make it about the american people and your closing comments, why should we make it about us and not about just president trump? >> well, when i was writing it i reflected on this terrific novel that afghanistan called the kite runner, huge kit. in the kite runner the father says to the son, son, the only real sin is stealing, everything else is a variant of stealing, i

don't agree with that. i think it's interesting book, but i believe every sin is selfishness in that every sin, every crime is a variation on selfishness and in his nobel-prize speech dr. king said what self-centered men had done wrong other centered men can set right. well, other centered women can set this right. to me that encapsulates the choice. donald trump if nothing else is a narcissist, all about him, he has no core principles, none, he only cares about himself. he's like the tenor in the oprah and goes, me, me, me. joe biden is the most empathetic person i know. his suffering has bread such empathy and such compassion, it is exactly what the difference -- this is exactly what dr. king

was talking about. and i take such inspiration to that and it's like he was analyzing the election today, that's a choice in the election. >> paul, i want to thank you you, dianne, your lovely wife, my sister, your beautiful sons, billy, john, patrick and charlie, am i right? >> yes. >> so -- and they're all registered and three of them are working for democrats. >> absolutely. what about -- who graduated from law school, billy? >> nobody is in law school yet? 3 out of college and patrick is still in? >> my niece graduated from law school and accepted clerkship in texas. treat her right. we are happy. the book is beating donald trump. this was a great read. you finally got me away from netflix and crimes, this was -- i enjoyed all of the how to and

i want to recommend all of my friends whether you're working in biden campaign or working in senate or congressional race, this is the book, if you're a political junky like paul and i, political strategist, please buy the book, i miss you my friend, thank you for being part of the program. >> god bless. >> paul and donna, thank you so much for being with us tonight, what a great conversation. i'm just going to add to what donna said, you don't have to be a political junky, you can just read the book, paul has a lot to say and we need to learn from him. donna, thank you also, you're always inspiration and impart a lot of wisdom on the rest of us, you guys are great, hallelujah moment for us to have both of you. i hope you both stay well, i hope all the audience members be safe, be well, be well read and as both donna have admonished over us, we all have to vote, we have to get out in the polls in november and help elect

candidates that will help get country back on track. thank you so much, what an honor for us and be well. >> thank you. >> thank you politics and prose. >> thank you all. >> here are some of the current best-selling nonfiction books according to new york times, topping the list fox news host sean hannity argues that a democratic victory in 2020 would lead to socialism and economic strife in live free or die. after that in too much and never enough, president trump's niece mary trump takes a critical look at the president and his family. pulitzer-prize winning author explores a hidden cast system in the united states. that's followed by finding freedom, scobi's reflection of significance of prince harry and megyn merkel's marriage. according to new york times is

how to be antiracist in which he argues that america must choose to be antiracist and work towards building a more equitable society. most of these authors have appeared on book tv and you can watch them online at booktv.org. .. .. top nonfiction authors about their latest work.