but i don't - capitalism obtains that people are disposed it seems to me. >> the way it stands out. >> racial capitalism is what it is.

that doesn't preclude the possibility of a local racial coalition to strike a blow to what capitalism is, the contradiction is in full view, the last 40 or 50 years in reaganism, a deal bankrupt. all of the contradictions are in full view so part of what we are seeing in the streets, young folk who have come of age and the age of catastrophe your accumulated grief, protesting over police brutality, use your kind of solidarity and vulnerability the pandemic has generated but the judgment underneath it, the countries broke, we see all these groups

and coalitions out in the streets risking their lives. i believe in the possibility of multiracial coalition. >> we've got to have solidarity and coalitions based -- beginning people of color. and the treatment of indigenous people. and a democratic experiment. within the bowels of the empire itself. and unapologetic about fighting white supremacy and transform and so forth.

the american style of socialism. yankee doodleing. they were young and very much so and empire. glenn ford and all of those folks kept the pressure on. it was predatory capitalist civilization and white supremacy at its core. in that same experiment it has been freedom fighters. and love warriors with tradition. culturally and artistically it has been in the vanguard.

>> opposition, entering that coalition must be honest, critically and honesty, and that has happened. the change audience questions that you want to share. >> i always thought, i didn't tell you this story as i was writing the book. and and and i got this package

in the mail. sends me a candle. there were these moments, the first biography from 1956, book culture and the biography and i wish i could find the archive. my writing partner, 100 years old and given what doctor perry is, by email, i called the first number. i go to the apartment in new york and meet a niece and the

knees tapes the loss and got the transcripts. it wasn't 5 or 6 changes but 100 pages of transcription of the interview. the only serious passage i found. like 72. or the moment i wanted to visit his grave, weinstein, david baldwin, daniel baldwin in the green yards, we think we will walk it all around. i am dating myself, they are getting high.

it is loud and strong and i write about this at the end of the book, james baldwin turns around, we don't know but malcolm is over a and carol says no. he is behind the young folk. waiting for it. he has been waiting and still waits. >> the third american founding in the last pages, very similar in reconstruction.

to keep track of all the various forms of domination and forms of evil in the american empire. this is timely and will be timeless, they will read it many years after the worms have our bodies. >> let me say this before i turn to the question. talking about the love, this man had loved me to death and without his love none of this would be possible, loved me into understanding this country boy from mississippi, gave me the authority to believe in myself and understand that i had the capacity to walk in any

room to be a free black man and understand what it means to walk in love. i just want to give him all the glory. >> one of the great owners of my life, hugging her virtually. also parents and mom and dad. just a blessing to be part of the great tradition knowing, in such a way self-examination goes hand-in-hand with fortitude and determination to keep on fighting. >> what a beautiful exchange.

so grateful you were able -- i feel bad giving up pitch right now but all right. before we begin the audience questions i want to remind everyone about this book "begin again" and 10% to be doing. they need to know about baldwin into the future we will fight with to get there and register for these upcoming events. with victoria loss. with dorothy roberts on the website.

and the socialism conference on the fourth of july. it is a perfect time. what lesser-known black voices can you recommend, what do you have? >> begin with this. black radical against booker t. washington, internet walking closely with philip randolph, fbi hunting them down, stayed in the basement in boston, 62 years old committed suicide, he tracked black folks turning

blacks. his life was exemplary. allowed his voice to become more visible, and -- >> that is true. >> and appropriating and manipulating radical discourses. >> how can i put this?

it will sound too abstract. we have to figure out how to be together differently with material conditions. how do we resist the way in which neoliberalism reduces us to being individuals in pursuit of our own self-interest with individuals in pursuit of their own self-interest, and basic values that define that a visitor rates any notion of the public good. this is why folks can't understand why they do not wear masks, no conception of standing in relation with others in the genuine community. part of what we have to do is figure out how to build

relationships with one another that in some ways hold off that model, by communities of love that allow you to be range full, enable you to reach for a different way of being in the world. i'm not trying to sound like doctor mcintyre talking about creating these little pockets and i am saying how we forge relationships with one another becomes an active, political, just in this moment. does that make sense? >> absolutely. the joy of those relationships has to be deeper than for pleasure you get in other corners of the community.

and soulful people, joyful people, you can't be soulful. and the tradition we come from cuts and deeper spiritual and moral level, those of us in the black community are in one way or another and that has to be the object of our critical reflection. i'm the hope for the liberal establishment. i want to talk about that. i just kowtowing to black folks called a calling, not just career.

anybody can't wait, they are missing the point. something is not right. they are raising in the and and you pull that. looks in their eyes and what did you think of that, they have to have cash. and and the bigger pr move.

and before i set eyes on them. >> empathy in mississippi. that is the whole thing. >> it is particularly unusual, asking for a deep productive connection in a moment we are not safe with active physical intimacy because of the pandemic. how do we build in a digital era, trapped on platforms that are vast forms of developed

relationships and otherwise. >> a high profile question. >> a hard question, thinking about the risk, paul taylor's wife, lost a mom to covid-19 and couldn't go home, couldn't send her home because she was worried about coronavirus, think about how complicated that relationship is. >> we will never forget it. can you imagine that?

couldn't send him home. there are ways in which the current pandemic, interrupted, given grief a different sort of registered to give and manage, grief comes with regret, danger. i wish i could have said i was sorry and resolved xyz so that is happening alongside sheltering in place, can't touch or engage, in the midst of this, in the midst of this, you find ways of being

together. i am in a reading room. >> we have a good time too. >> you and i don't have time to blink, and every two weeks, for two hours, paul taylor, charles peterson, might be a lick of slowing -- how to figure out to

maintain, and and -- there's an opposite end of this, and who it is on the other side of it. >> in the project of making time for one another. >> in part 2 of the resolution. to resolve ourselves, nothing will get in the way of our love of each other. got sold to houston, texas, never forgot about that and as soon as you are free you get to

continue - nothing will get in the way of the love we have for the people and whatever it takes, whatever it takes, that is part of the great tradition and the dialogue. >> you have tease out of us -- >> 30 years. >> i have been waiting to be in conversations like these, grateful for the time you have given to us. transitioning to this question how we raise our black children, i was raised by black

people, and souls and intellect and the question how we raise our black children. how i feel raising black children, how do i negotiate radicalized trauma, not to get burned in white strips. >> a wonderful moment where jimmy rejects a description of the negro problem, don't know what people mean by the negro problem. and whatever the world was saying, taking root in this. 1000 cuts daily.

we have to be honest with ourselves, my own trauma. bringing it to the moment. you love the best way you can. it is vulnerable as much as it may be and it seems to me, as crazy as it may be and broken as it seems, loves me to death. if they come out of that, the black love is somebody else, the armor to deal with the

world and the detritus of the world from taking root or settling in their spirit and that is an ongoing battle. >> so powerful, so true. one great moment. be afraid. don't do that. a black person said the negro is not afraid. martin luther king said i would rather be dead than a trade. i tell my son and my sister and my daughter is 18, i say you are so precious and priceless

that the world may never understand that but don't ever be afraid to stand for something right. the best of who you are, the best of what is in your grandparents, the best, not the worst. don't stand from a yankee society. hold off on that side. that is what you stand for. don't be afraid. don't ever sell out, don't ever cave-in, don't you ever give up. he steeled himself and isn't afraid. the family, the community, the collegiality, have close brothers and sisters who are as vanilla as a stereo typical

norwegian. a piece of love flowing is real. indigenous people, on the side -- >> going back to the letter from my nephew. you got it right there. to be loved, baby and forever to strengthen you against the love this world. remember that. i know how black it looks for you, we were trembling. we've not stopped trembling yet but if we had not loved each other none of us would have

survived because we love you and for the sake of your children and your children's children. >> what you talk about - >> exactly that. the abstract love of black people individually, the ones that will cut you out there tell you they are worthy of being loved. it is a popularity contest. to be crucified by black people. martin to marcus to ella baker to harriet tubman.

it was that kind of love, a quid pro quo. imagine what music would have sounded like. lord have mercy. >> thank you for the robust and joyous answer. a part of the idea of forgiveness like james baldwin, for reasons - he chose the right one. because of something you point out in the book. what is it? he let go of the hatred because he needed to.

what we are afraid of, that we will feel pain to move through and accept our parents. and give to ourselves. so we can do that and choose to. >> i think one more good question. this is from nissan, what do you think baldwin will have to offer to those facing a deeply militarized police department and resurgent? >> an interesting question.

i wouldn't dare try to suggest that i would be able to anticipate his words at this moment. i will just direct you to the wreckage. i think he has language for us to speak to the moment and he -- asked the question in esquire in 1968 and what would you say to folks out in the streets? he says i wouldn't tell them not to get their guns. i wouldn't tell them not to fight to defend themselves and i would say to them. i am paraphrasing, if you don't kill that white man or shoot

which it may come to, don't hate him. the hatred will corrode your soul. at the heart of the project it seems to me is moral concern about who we aspire to be. how do we not allow the world to deform and disfigure the soul as we engage in the arduous task of our creation under captive conditions, so what would he say? fight to your last breath because that is what he said but do it in the name of love. >> that is wisdom.

we should never speak for both, when he went to the heart of american apartheid, that is what he was up against, got off the plane and walked into militarized zone with vicious attacks and was have you and first thing is how is it black folks are able to keep their souls intact? a moral and spiritual question. they had a richness, a tremendous breadth of something cultural, moral and spiritual that made them morally superior than the white supremacists not because they were born that way

but the tradition of blood, sweat and tears produced it that way. the black version in harlem is different than rural mississippi. we have different circumstances. the speed of walking and a lot of other things going on there. it. his mind -- it. his mind to encounter people. that is the standard we have to keep in the 21st century, difficult to experience strong moral decline in black america because of the commercialization and the white supremacy to be extricated as it were but as long as we try

to do this in the name of love where white people are not the point of reference, they steal your point of reference, you are in a world of trouble. loving white folks, you pathological. pathology -- some get away. by means of access to tradition, that is what our churches ought to be doing, whatever synagogues ought to be doing at their height. see what i mean? you are never it in such a way to be part of a great tradition. >> let us end there. i will bring up the name of a

great poet, jericho brown who wrote a book called the tradition in response to james baldwin who said let's end there. that is the last question here and we've spoken to the notion of radical love and what it looks like to shape this movement. we end there. thank you both so much for coming to speak with us, with haymarket reading and hope we will see you at the next one. >> thank you. >> thank you. lord have mercy. what a lovely warrior you are at the deepest level. we made a covenant. i will go down for him. to continue on.

>> thank you both. >> weeknights this month we are featuring booktv programs as a preview of what is available on c-span2. tonight starting at 8:00 pm eastern we begin with historian a j bain on the presidential election discussing his book do we defeats truman. enjoy booktv on c-span2. >> the presidents available in