about how great i am, it just happens to me because i have that experience of imagining myself in the other person's position so much more >> i'm going to move on to audience questions . peggy asks the opposite of what my question was. i do you feel like your writing was affected your drinking when you were drinking ? what was it that you were held back from or?

>> guest: this is something i talk about in another chapter about writing a column and thinking it's the greatest thing in the world, sitting and knocking back a few or whatever and waking up in the morning and looking at it and thinkingthis makes no sense . or this isn't accurate. so there's just that very baselevel of it's just not as good writing and it's not good journalism to be drunk. you can't write as well. and i think i really limited my ambition. i think the idea of writing a book would have been impossible. i told myself a story about myself which is that i can't write more than 500 words because i don't have that kind of attention span or i'm not literary or i just don't have these capabilities. i'm not smart enough. i don't have focus. there were so many stories thatwere partly true . i didn't have the focus i

also have the capability inside me somewhere. i just thought i'm such a piece of crap that no one wants to read anything more than pithy little items from me and i really believe that. >> host: it's interesting because you do come from an industry that's soaked in alcohol so do you think a lot of herbalists are maybe operating with some of that? >> that's an interesting question and i've never asked that question of another journalist. that would be a little invasive but it wouldn't surprise me because i think a lot of journalists, i do know that you tell stories about yourself on what industry you're in and what you've done and i also think if you are somebody who's barely hanging on because your drinking every night, because you're hung over in the morning, because you're trying to get the facts straight in your story and make it make sense, you're

not going to be thinking of more ambitious things necessarily. it isthis gender breakdown thing to . i'm thinking of women. maybe guys are like i'mgoing to write the next great american novel . perhaps that happens among people who think of themselves differently but i can totally see that just because that was so much my experience of feeling like i'm not good at this, i'm lucky i'm here and these people are full into thinking i knowwhat i'm doing . that's what i believe. i mean, everybody has a syndrome but it was something else . >> host: i'm going to jump to the next audience question from elizabeth, a question asked from my own heart . what were the years to get over the regret of theyears lost when you were drinking ? >> guest: i don't feel that i

lost the time . this is perhaps something of a positive spin on what those years were like. i mean, they were terrible but the fact is i wouldn't be where i am now had not gone that way. so i don't have any way of knowing what it would have been like had i not lost those 10 years or so. i find that regret or shame is a toxic emotion and but it's harder to expunge in a way because it is true. you look back at that time and you think my god, i could have done this this and this. an example i've heard and this comports with my own age although i never wanted to have kids . i could have had kids or people who lost their kids and didn't get that time with them growing up . i think you have to, the best way to get through that regret is the same way that you get through shame with addiction and i think it's

talking about it and it's finding out how if there's a way to make amends to the people that you hurt. and it doesn't mean apologizing, it means saying is there anything i can do now that would be helpful to you and not dictating what it is you think you should do for them but just asking. and for me that helps expunge the regret and i also just have this strong belief that you are you who you are because of everything you've been through . so i don't know what i would have been like but i do know that i probably would spend a lot longer thinking that i was my job and telling myself stories that were true as it turns out. for example, i lost my job as i mentioned and i thought it was the worst thing that could ever happen to me but it actually was one of the best things that could happen to me which is crazy to hear coming out of my mouth now given the way i felt when it happened.

i was like trust. so yes, it also just takes time and perspective. >> host: it's interesting that the answer to these both these sticky emotions, i don't know if their emotions, whatever . shame and regret that your answer to both is the same which has to do with amends which takes the emphasis off the self to. >> guest: i think that a lot of recovery and it just a lot of recovery work and recovery talk is about taking the emphasis off yourself and figuring out what you can do for other people which is honestly a great way to recover from all kinds of things, not just addiction . >> host: i think it's a big theme for all of us to talk about, interesting to think aboutamends in the context . do you feel like taking one more question? let's do that.

there's a couple more on here, when we try to take two more and wrap it up the first one is another great question from jean. what are your thoughts about alcohol industry's influence on drinking and our culture and the lack of regulatory limits or public health outreach on drinking related issues. >> guest: that's a great question. i think part of the reason we don't talk about relapse and the reason we don't talk about alcohol addiction is because the industry is just pernicious in every single aspect oflife . i have a pile of magazines over here and everyone is full of liquor ads and recipes for drinks and things like that. everywhere you walk into the grocery store there just screaming in your face . i just think it is, i would policy wise like to see both more regulation on alcohol advertisement and higher taxes on alcohol because it does in fact reduce the

amount that people drink. and i don't know that we're ever going to get to a point where we think of, it's funny because we have these drugs that we make which are to completely illegal like heroin and there are drugs we make extra legal like you're really supposed to be consuming them and if you don't there's something wrong with you like alcohol . and it gets to be cigarettes as well and we can make a cultural shift. i mean, it is possible that we're not had that direction right now especially in quarantinewhere the message is to havehappy hour at 4:00 somewhere . it's 11:00 in the morning somewhere . people just i think feel, and i have picked up on this myself even as a sober person is tremendous pressure to turn to drinking as this is the one way you can have fun at least while you're stuck inside. >> host: i did want to bring that up. you mentioned this idea of reservation like people

having certain reasons that they get to relapse and i feel like in this moment in covid there's possibly people coming up with justified relapse . we're surrounded with people talking on social media all the time about how people need to be drinking. and can you talk a little bit about how we use situations to justify our drinking. >> guest: i certainly did when i was drinking. especially when i was still drinking publicly. most of my drinking was pretty shameful and the private but i do think that there is a sense in which i was reading like an advice column the other day and i did a tweet about this. the lead question was somebody is having a dry wedding, how do i feel? and the answer was bringthe flask . it's just so everywhere.

it's everywhere and i wish i could make it stop and just let people make their own choices about things because the fact is the only reason that we think that drinking is the way to get through things and cope with things instead of i don't know, running or another substance. we, whatever is because it's just constantly pushed on us. >> host: it connects right back to dean's question . you think that this idea that your freely drinking, that it's your own choice, of course you are. those are choices you're making but there's this trillion dollar industry making sure you're doing that and that you are subject to the capitalist force when choosing to drink. >> guest: we never choose our choices in a capitalistsystem . it's not possible. you can think you have free will all you want but there's still this and fall of

capitalism overyour head at all times . >> host: and nowhere more than with your evening glass of wine . we will move on from there. one more question from the end and you can do with the questionwhat you like because it's very open-ended . how long have you been clean, did you use other drugs, how long have you been writing so go where you'd like with that and that will be our last question. >> caller: this is josh, i can hear you erica so if you want to keep going and answer and hopefully we can have claire reconnect . >> host: can you hear me? >> yes claire, i can hear you, you're coming through fine but erica is going to go ahead and respond . >> guest: while we wait for claire to reconnect, i

started drinking when i was about 13 and then i did a lot of other drugs then. it was the 90s, i was in high school. i did a lot of acid, ismoked weed . pretty minor stuff in the scale of things and i didn't really drink until, heavily until i was in my 30s and i didn't really do a lot of other drugs either. i mean, drinking was really my main squeeze once i really started. and i have been sober for 5 and a half years. my sobriety date is february 4 2015. and i have been writing basically since forever. i started writing when i was, started writing professionally when i was about 18, 19 in college . i started taking internships back in the days when internships were things that you did not get.

technically, paid for. and i've just been doing it ever since. as an internist at the texas observer, started writing their and have been in all weeklies ever since. and then in 2009 went out completely on the online platforms and yeah. so gosh, how many years has that been? more than 20. claire, do we have you back? >> host: kind of. i'm going to step aside and let you to close this out because i'm giving out. >> host: erica, any final words ? >> guest: just thank you so much for hosting this and i'm glad we were able to get past our technical difficulties sort of and thank you for everybodytuning in on youtube and broadcast and facebook .

>> host: again, thank you everybody. our apologies for starting late. thank you again for tuning in this evening and a big thanks to erica and claire for being here. if you enjoyed this event you can find many more just like it on our website townhall seattle.org and we hope you'll consider making a donation to townhall as your support will allow us to continue having events like this one. if you're interested in pre-ordering a copy of erica's book which will be out july 7, you can use the link on this live stream page to focus purchase through our friends at elliott bay book company and thank you again for beinghere and we hope you have a great evening . dv continues on c-span2, television for seriousreaders . >> our guest author this evening is lisa selin davis. she's originally from right here in saratoga springs and she's been a great friend to the boor