at booktv.org or consult your program guide. and now we kick off the weekend with cnn political commentator and democratic strategist paul begala who weighs in on how democrats can can win the 2020 presidential election. >> good evening, everyone. i'm lissa muscatine, co-owner of politics & prose, and we welcome you to tonight's edition of p and p live which is going to be fabulous. i'm so glad all of you are able to join in. if you have a question for one of our guests tonight and could look at the bottom of your screen, you'll see a little tab or icon that saws ask a question. -- says ask a question. please click on that if you have one, that's going to be the easiest method to get the questions to our guests and get them answered. you'll also see a chat call on your right, but most importantly, please find a a link to paul's book. you can click on that and

purchase it. of course you're going to want to purchase it for yourself, your relatives, your neighbors and friends because there's a lot riding on what he says. so please go ahead and purchase paul's book and help support this discourse that he's, he's lending to all of us in the next few months and beyond. i just want to say that any night of the week we'd be thrilled to have either one of our guests for a p and p event, but getting them together is kind of like a hallelujah moment for us at p and p. i don't know how many of you are counting or have that thing that shows the days, minutes and seconds until the election, but if you're not counting, there are 88 days remaining. personally, i kind of wish the election was today, but were to wait 88 days. and given what's riding on the outcome, it's such an to introduce my old friend and former colleague paul begala. he is going to tell us how democrats could win in america. that would, of course, rid

america at least one of the two plagues current lu ravaging our nation. [laughter] paul will be explaining all this by talking about his new book, or it's called "you're toured: toured: -- fired: the perfect guiled to beating donald trump." in keeping on the concerns of societiers and not getting -- voters and not gotting sidetrackedded. so why should we listen to paul? paul is one of the most respected political consultants and commentators on the planet. he was one of the main architects for the successful clinton campaign in 1992. he then served as counselor to the president in the white house, that's where i had the wonderful good forchub of being able to work with him. he helped run the super pac that was instrumental in reelecting barack obama in 2012. this new book is his sixth book. he's a commentator, you've

probably seen him on cnn, and he also teaches public policy at georgetown. and most importantly, somehow he has made it through decades in the hard-boiled world of politics with a sense of humor, his optimistic and cheerful spirit and, most importantly, his personal integrity fully intact, and that is no small feat. thank you, paul, for reminding us that it is still possible to be the person that you are in the political world. >> you know, thank you. >> now, if you look at the back of the cover of paul's book once you get it, or maybe you already have it, you will see forwards. here's the front. you can see it behind paul. and you'll see blurbs from bill clinton, nancy pelosi, james car absolutely, even willie nelson. but the most flattering blurb comes from someone else, and here is what donald trump says about paul. paul begala, the dopey cnn flunk key has knowingly commuted fraud

in his first ad against maine paul, clearly you are getting under the man's skin, well done. may all democratic candidates and voters and other republicans who are never trumpers read your book and heed your wise counsel in the next 88 days. paul's conversation partner tonight the incredible donna brazile, currently a fox news contributor and foreman interim chair of -- former interlimb chair of -- interim chair of the democratic national committee. she ran former vice president al gore's campaign in 2000. she's the author of some really great books and bestsellers, most recently of a wonderful, terrific book for colored girls who consider politics. that book won the 2019 naacp image award in the nonfiction category. like paul, donna is widely respected for her political acumen as a strategist, commune caughter and comment tauters.

we are just so darn lucky to have both of them with us tonight. thank you, paul, thank you, donna, for being with us. the floor is yours. >> well, thank you, and let me say thank you to politics & prose, my favorite neighborhood bookstore, and i look forward to browsing in the store and getting a cup of coffee as soon as possible. paul, hey, how are you, few friend? >> i'm great. i miss ya! i bush i could see you in person. >> -- i bush you could see you in person. -- i wish i could see you in person. >> paul, i read a lot of books, but the thing that grabbed me about this book and the reason why i say people should read it is you not only tell us the problems, but you also tell us how democrats should run in 2020. met me start by asking you one question. what went wrong in 2016? >> wow. well, first, like you, hillary

got more votes than the other guy which, you know, in a real democracy would matter, right? it's only happened, like, four or five times in the previous 20 years, and it's -- 200 years, and it's happened twice in the last 20 where vice president gore won the election fair and square. it was almost a black swan. you had, for example, the left in our party was so convinced she was going to win, i think they felt comfortable casting a protest vote, so dr. jill stein and governor gary johnson did better than usually third parties do. second, you had an unprecedented invasion, a foreign unvegas. foreign intelligence. like i need to tell you, they were running the party. they hacked us, they manipulated us, and the media went for it, the press covered hillary's e-mails more than every other story about trump combined. so that was the second thing.

third, you had this really obscene act by the then-fbi director who's supposed to be nonpartisan weighing in, personally attacking the democratic candidate for president first in july when he clear her of wrongdoing, he attacked her anyway, and then 11 days before the election. now that's all true, i could have done more and i could have done better. as lissa said, i was helping the pro-hillary super pac. we had all the money in the world, and we were running against just a really awful person, right? he says racist things, misogynystic things, islamophobic things, insulted a man's disability, the reporter from "the new york times." i got distracted by that. i focused on husband character which is abysmal. i don't excuse it, but it was sort of necessary but not sufficient. you know, the presidency is still just a job interview, and

somebody's e a horrible person, but maybe they can do a really good job. i didn't connect it up to the retiree e in pennsylvania, the office worker in michigan or the farmer in wisconsin and tell them how their life would be worse. and i tell the story in the book, absolutely true, about three weeks after the election -- and i'm not kidding, this was probably like, it was the hardest election and post-election i've ever gone through. and lissa's right, i'm generally a happy person. i was miss rabble. my joke was i'd sleep like a baby, i woke up every two hours crying and pissed the bed. i told my wife, i figured it out. when you ran these ads in wisconsin about how trump talks about women and people of color and -- they saw that, and that life ethel turned to harold and said, you know, harold, we can't

vote for a man like that because they're a decent, mud western, all-american family. and he said, you're right, we can't. but about three days before the election he saws, you know, ethel, he's not going to grab you by the privates, but he says they're going to open up that factory where they laid off our son harvey. so i didn't connect it up to harvey's life, to ethel's life, to harold's life. i simply left it at he's a horrible person, which he is. so i don't want democrats to do that again. not to excuse his awe business mall, appalling, sewer-level character, but to make it about voters, not about trump. see, this is the trump trap that lissa referred to. every narcissist wants the conversation tonight to be about themself, and -- to be about themself, and what i falled to do is turn the camera away from trump and back to that farm family. the reason willie wrote in it is i wrote a whole chapter about rural america, and he loved it.

and that meant a lot to me. we've got to reconnect with folks. i think now after four years people know trump's a big. >> right. >> but how does it affect me. >> so, look, 88 days, and you write in the book that trump would like to make this about him, but we need to make it about the voters. the trump trap, as you just mentioned. with covid a still major issue, can the democrats learn anything from 2016 and really focus on those issues that matter and not continue to focus on donald trump? >> i hope. i hope. you're right, covid changes everything. i think this is the first political strategy since covid, you know? i did two things. i grew a beard and i wrote a book. donna, you know me -- >> i had it all over. >> we go back 43 years we've been friends.

33 years. so i wrote it during covid. and it's more important now, you know? it is, as stacey abrams has said, vote as if your life depends on it because it does. it really does. you know, politics is not any longer what i said when i called it show business for ugly people. it's a real thing. it's your life. and today there's a good example. today. donald trump goes out and says, hey, maybe i'll give my convention speech from the white house, right? and we all get our panties in a wad, no, it's a violation of the hatch act. it is. it's criminal. it's appalling, but it has no effect on harold and ethel's life back in wisconsin. so i think the democrats ought to say, no, he shouldn't give it at the white house. he should give it at a covid wing, a morgue, a cemetery, because that really embodies his

presidency. it's hard to do because he distracts us. all good people are raised when they hear something that's misogynystic or racist to saw, whoa, cut that out. but i think he uses that division as diversion to take it off the fact that people are dying before their time on his watch. >> in the book you say it's trump's superpower. what's our kryptonite? >> it's -- well, god help us, covid makes it a lot less effective. but it's also turning the camera back. and i love them anyway, but i went and really studied barack obama and bill clinton, both of whom were subjected to terrible personal attacksings. and in each case, they refused to rise to the bait. barack obama, it took him months, year before he released his birth not because he wasn't -- birth certificate not because he wasn't born in honolulu, but because he knew it was a trap. they were simply trying to steal the election away from health care and jobs and the issues he

was running on. and he explained that very well. you hold up that attack and saw, now why is trump saying this? in joe's case, he's going to come after husband son, we know that. why is he attacking my family? because he hasn't done anything for your family. and believe me, win or lose, my family's going to be just fine. if he allows you to be diverted thinking about my son who's a fine man, don't fall for it. keep the focus on your son, your daughter, your granddaughter. i think that's the i way to do this. and, again, only because i failed to do it last time, and president clinton was nice enough to read the book, and he did, he remindedded me that was his first law of politics. politics is a always about people, not about us. >> in 2018 you write a book that the democrats were able to flip 41 house seats that trump won in 2016. how did democrats do that? >> if there's a hero of the book, if there's a g.o.a.t.,

it's me in terms of screwing up, if there's a hero, it's nancy pelosi. oh, my god, i love that woman. she led us out of the wilderness. and what she did was so smart. she began with recruitment, and her recruitment began with diversity. our right-wing friends, and we both have a lot of them and i think it's a blessing, they think our commitment to diversity is about touchy-feely weakness. it's not. it's about bringing in the best team. when you expand the talent pool, you get more talent. >> right. >> nancy knew that from the jump. she recruited more women and people of color and recruited people with national security backgrounds, intelligence backgrounds, defense backgrounds, really cool, interesting, diverse backgrounds as well as diverse genders and race. so that was the first thing is recruit diverse. she also, you know, barbara

mikulski used to say this, she was a social worker before she was a senator, meet people where they love. she met people where they live. aoc ran in aoc's district. she didn't run in colin's district. he's an african-american man who represents george w. bush's rich white -- that's terrific. so he didn't campaign on mueller and impeachment, he campaigned on health care and prescription drugs. and so diversity first. matching the districts. moderates ran in moderate districts, progressives ran in progressive districts. she funded them and did all the nuts and bolts right too. and that, to me, was all the most -- it became a tidal wave. but she didn't make it about trump. you know, in 2010 they all ran ads attacking president obama, and republicans took the house. democrats didn't do that.

they ran ads about you. they ran ads about health care, about prescription drugs, and even though trump was not popular, they actually got elected because of a mandate for change. i just think she's a genius. >> one thing, paul, you and i both know this, that we constantly argue about targeting the white working class versus mobilizeing the base. in the book you address both of these issues, and you also talk about the rise of the american electorate. why is it so important that we get it right this time? >> because as you did as party chair and campaign manager, you have to do both. you have to do both. i think, donna, the reverend jackson about how a plane has to have a left wing or a right wing, or it won't flew. and he's inarguably correct about that. that's what our party needs. you know, these primaries this week were these dynamic,

impressive -- this corey bush, i didn't know anything about her, and i watched her, gosh, she is amazing. and my view is the party needs new blood. i don't really care if it comes from the left ventricle or the right ventricle, we get new, fresh blood. but we have to do both. we have to energize people of color, young people, women -- especially unmarried women. that's the rising american electorate. but we also need to reach out to people who are in pain and turn to -- turned to donald trump because they wanted a wrecking ball. we just have to lose a little less, you know? if we can get back to the white working class vote levels that we had with barack obama -- not even bill clinton, just do as well as obama did -- joe will win big. and it's because the truth is, i looked this up, we lost 71,000 people to drug overdose.

now, some of them in the cities, some are in the suburbs, some are around the country. this is not a thing to discriminate by ideology or race. we've lost 38,000 people last year, the death by drug overdose is the highest ever, i think. certainly highest in years. death by handgun violence, 38,000. some in cities, some in suburbs, some on the farms. the pain is the same. and it's our job to stitch that back together, turn that pain into purpose whether it's a farmer, god forbid, whose kid is adducted to opioids, or it's a mom in the inner city. it's the same pain. i'm looking for ways to stitch them back together. i don't think we should be at war. >> let's talk about rural america. you mentioned early that willie nelson enjoyed that chapter. ial enjoyed that chapter. i learned a few things. why is it important that we reach out to rural america? >> well, first, it's

intrinsicically important p. we're democrats. we love and we care. that's number one. number two, i do think their pain and their problems are very, very similar s and we can -- not all of them, but we can get some of them to look past their divisions and to find common cause with us. third, there's just a practical political science matter which is the senate is rigged. the united states senate, with or without the filibuster, is rigged against big states. that was the compromise they a made to create our country. but when they made it, virginia had the most people, delaware had the least. the difference was 12, 12 and a half times, virginia was 12 and a half times the population of delaware. you know what the gap is between california and wyoming? 64. there's only 600,000 people in the whole state of wyoming, and they get two senators. there's 600,000 people right now stuck in traffic on the 405. so the senate is rugged, it's

rigged, but it means we have to win in places like west virginia. both president obama and president clinton's two most important domestic e accomplishments were put over the top by democratic senators from nebraska. we have to win a plus like that if we want to run the country. >> i agree with you. let's discuss the issues that might defive feet donald trump in 2020 -- defeet donald trump in 2020. -- defeat. >> we fell into the trap. medicare, medicaid, social security are always essential n. a pandemic they're existential. we take that away from people, and they will die. and it turns out medicare, medicaid and social security are disproportionately helping trump voters. i think it's great. [laughter] i want trump voters to be able to have health care. but trump has proposed a $2 trillion cut in social security, medicare and medicaid.

his last two budgets. excuse me. two, his last two budgets dud that. and democrats haven't broken through with that, i think because of this diversion that we've talked about. if you just tell people, even trump voters, trump's proposed twice in a row cutting $2 trillion from medicare, med e decade and social security which is the same amount that he took from us to give to corporate america, he's paying for his corporate cut by cutting grandma 's cut. he accused hillary of cutting health care. he went to davos, witterland, told -- switzerland, told all the billionaires that he would cut that. he went on fox news and said he would cut medicare, medicaid and social security. and it's in his budget. i think we ought to just hang that around his neck. i say in the book people should set their watch for every ten minutes and say, you know, boy,

it's terrible do those cheated in the world series, and medicare, medicaid and social security, trump's trying to cut them. or you'd be surprised because they found lizzo. i've got young kids. i love lizzo and trump wants to cut medicare, medicaid and social security. anything you're talking about, just throw it in. >> so, paul, let me just ask you about health care. you also talk about the health care in the book. president trump proposed a couple of weeks ago that he was going to come up with a health care plan. [laughter] in your book you said we need to hammer donald trump on cutting, taking away health care. explain why. >> this is why nancy pelosi's speaker again. this is why 41 districts who had republican congressmen voted 'em out and put democrats in. because we are the party of health care. and i'm, you know, somebody told me this, donna, i know it's true, someone who was in the room when president obama met with president-elect trump, one

of the things -- how big-hearted is, one of the things president obama said is just take my name off obamacare. keep the program. just take my name off it and make it trumpcare. it doesn't matter. we just want to-people. what a big-hearted thing. it's pretty amazing. of course, trump didn't listen. he should have. now that president obama's gone, obamacare's never been more popular. the joke i say with my right-wing friends, i say it's just care. that's what we need. democrats need to run on that. mr. trump is in court as we speak asking the right-wing judges that he's appointed to throw out the entire affordable care act which would take 129 million americans and make them vulnerable again to insurance companies jacking up their rates or canceling their coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. preexisting condition, by the way, as you know, donna, has been actually insurance companies have used being a

woman as a pre-existing condition. [laughter] so, you know, we are really in trouble if we let trump do that. we have to tell people that. again, we get so distracted by he's picked a twitter role, you- twitter war with rosie o'donnell that we don't come back to the people bus. >> you have a chapter and still the economy -- [inaudible] i love that chapter. i had to read it twice, chapter 10. but you pointed out that the president's constantly trying to paint a rosy picture of the economy pre-covid and that democrats have to get back on top of the economy. why is that? >> and i think joe did last week. i thought that build back better plan was terrific, i thought the speech was terrific. what i want democrats to do is put that trump tax cut on trial. president obama calm in, and the entire world economy was destroyed, and he bullet it back with $8ing 32 billion. -- 8ing 32 billion. trump comes in, the economy's

chugging along, and corporate profits are at an a all-time hue. what does he do? cuts taxes by $2 trillion. he spends more than twice the amount of money, our money, on bailing out corporations that have record profits than obama did saving the whole global economy. my favorite line in that speech of joe's was when he said when joe biden is president, the days of amazon paying zero taxes are over. i love amazon, they're a great american company, but by gold -- golly, why should my little two-person firm pay more in taxes than the wealthiest man on earth? it's crazy. democrats should put that on trial. it is what clinton would call a bird's nest on the ground. reach down and pick it up. >> yeah. as you well know, one of the strategies for defeating joe biden is painting him as being taken over by the left, the radical left of the democratic

party. how can we counter that narrative? >> yeah. first, it's hard to make that stick with joe. he is middle class joe from scranton, and he's got a long record of riding the mainstream of the democratic party. and so they do, they want to put the squad on trial. oh, they just happen to be women of color, donna. it has nothing to do with that. [laughter] you know? of course they always, they always go there. i don't think that dog will hunt. i think, for example, the vice president did a great thing right away at the jump when he said, no, no, we're not defunding the police. so did congresswoman karen bass. she wrote the new, the secure police? what was it called? >> george floyd justice in policing act. >> justice in policing. she wrote that bill. it does not defund the cops, and she's the first to tell you that. it redirects so social workers can do social work and policemen

can do police work. and i think what vice president biden and congresswoman bass -- who is rumored to be up for the ticket -- i think she did a terrific job of turning it. you just can't let him get any traffic with it. i always want to saw socialism is defined as the government giving things to people, and there's probably no more bigger welfare queen in history than donald j. trump. he's overcharging the secret service for golf carts and for stays at his dopey resort. so i think you have to deflect, but then you have to turn the attack back on trump. >> before we get to some of the questions, and i see them filling up right now, and i'm going to make this quick, you tell democrats how to run on the issues, and you added some ingredients, and i just want to put them out there. personalize, humanize and localize. why is that? >> amen. i think a lot of democrats, you

know, they're intellectuals. i'm not. i'm a proud texas longhorn, you're an lsu tiger. i think that's an advantage. i think it's an advantage. it's what they used to say, put the jam on the lower shelf where little folks can reach it, right? we have to meet, as senator mikulski used to say, meet people where they live. so when we talk about abstraction, section 8 housing, okay, that doesn't -- as george w. bush would say, that doesn't resonate with anybody. but when corey bush says i was homeless, and i've been able to live the american dream and now get elected, likely, to congress, that personalizes it. it humanizes it. and i think it's absolutely essential. we talk about programs too much and people too little. and i do think, actually, this is a biden strength. he's very good about remembering it's about people. and this is a people business

we're in. and it's far better to tell one story about one person than it is to give a whole statistic about a government program. >> well, give us an example. let's talk about climate change. why is that important? you also address that in your book. >> i do, and as i toll you before we -- told you before we went on, my mama is watching this, she's part of this zoom -- >> hello. >> and i was talking to mom, and she pointed out that the lake where her grandfather -- now, my mother is still young, but her grandfather a hundred years ago had a cabin in a place in new jersey. ..

100 years ago my great-grandfather could take two feet of ice and sell it in new york city, today you can't even skate on it. in the summer when my mother used to go there, swam in this beautiful lake today you can't swim in it, it doesn't freeze, you can't swim in it in the summer because it gets this horrible toxic algae which would kill your dog and do terrible damage to you. a woman in austin letter dog go swimming in lady bird lake in the middle of austin and died from toxic algae. when you tell it in personal terms, my mother can't swim in the lake where she grew up, this woman in austin, her dog died because he fetched a stick at lady bird lake, that tells people a lot more than just giving them the global science. >> host: i agree with you on

that. i know you are political scientist, what senate races are you following and why? >> guest: the quinnipiac poll today in south carolina. >> host: my friend and colleague on the dnc. 4444. >> guest: if you go from lindsey graham to jamie harrison you go from one of the more loathsome creatures whoever signed his way to congress to janie who is a terrific person and is in a dead heat in south by god kalorama -- carolina. i've been in touch with all of them. my deal with cnn is i can no longer work for politicians that i can volunteer. i have been doing fundraisers and campaigning for these candidates. m j hagar is close to my heart,

texas woman who rides a motorcycle. >> host: let's turn to the book. >> guest: absolutely. in dc, a rival network to yours and mine says texas is a tossup state. john cornyn, 46, highly vulnerable, 36, mj, do you know her personal story? >> guest: >> host: i knew her opponent in the primary. >> guest: i love royce. m j was a pilot in the army rescuing wounded soldiers in afghanistan, she gets the call, flies in on her helicopter, helicopter gets shot down. mj gets shot, they sent another chopper in, rescued a wounded soldier, rescue mj, the taliban and start firing again, mj

bleeding returned fire. so i love that race. i would watch out gross in alaska, in independent, a doctor, commercial fisherman, senator sullivan is very vulnerable, hasn't done anything. we are talking about winning a place like texas, south carolina, montana, where steve blake is in a dead heat, really good candidates in unlikely places, this could be a really good year for senate democrats. >> host: you wrote this book and indicated donald trump has appointed 112 judges to federal courts, all but 200. how is trump using the courts? you address that in the book.

>> two long-range things. i can't wait to see trump gone and i want a fumigation and an exorcism before joe moves in but a lot of that he can change right away but a lot he can't. the two long-term things are climate which we are set back decades now by this man's pollution but also the courts. he has stacked the federal judiciary with young ultra right-wing lawyers most of them out of this pressure group the federalist society. they are going to be there for years and years and it breaks my heart. i tell the story of brett kavanaugh and neil gorsuch, the two most famous judges trump has put out and it is shameful, really shameful, this is going to take years and years to rehabilitate the federal courts and by the way i know trump didn't appoint him but i still carry no grief for chief

justice roberts. he ruled on choice and lgbt q stuff or twice, john roberts gutted the voting rights act for which john lewis shed his blood and we are suffering from that every day. he took away the key protection in the voting rights act, the most important legislation in my lifetime. because that has been gutted you have people like brian camp and others are manipulating the system to disadvantaged people of, exactly why we created it in the first place. >> today is the 50 fifth anniversary of the signing of the voting rights act by a fellow texan, lyndon johnson. let's take some of the questions. >> guest: i pulled this out when mister lewis was buried. i stood 2 and half hours in line to look past the capital at the top of the stairs, you

loved him and i loved him, he gave it to me in 1990, july 20 seventh 1998, then we lost him and you know what he wrote? with faith and hope keep your eyes on the prize. and i treasure that. the prize for him was voting rights and i miss him desperately especially now that voting rights are at risk but he left us happy, thrilled with how young people have taken up the torch and young people are looking for voting rights and we have been central with that. >> host: several questions of come in and one question about voter suppression, how do we combat voter suppression in the

2020 election? >> guest: i tell the story of stacy abrams. she lost by bus than the amount of votes, she was running against the sitting secretary of state who was manipulating that perch. i don't know what i would have done, great likelihood i would have moved to alaska and gone fishing. stacy decided not to get better but get better. she is working her heart out in georgia and is two senate seat at stake, could be a swing state in the presidential but we have to organize around this, everybody, tell your friends and neighbors, kids, parents will, check your status, they might be approaching you, you don't know, check your status, second, vote early, vote by mail, it is completely safe, completely secure. the center where i sent michael

waldman ran the numbers. in colorado, 100% vote by mail, 0.00000 number one, that is one 10 million tube of one%. we have to be vigilant. speaker pelosi has been great about pushing the negotiation of the postal service, there is another idea. our party chairman and david tucker of ohio, advocating in addition to vote by mail drop boxes, put a drop box at the police station, government center, firehouse, you can secure it so you don't even have to use a mask. a lot of places you can drop it in a secure box, don't have to give it -- >> a child put his or her hand

in the box -- >> can't put a hand in an atm machine. if they can figure it out for an atm they can figure it out for a ballot box. >> host: how do we counteract the russian interference in this election? there is talk that the russians may be at it again, a successful playbook in 2016, what are your thoughts on how to counteract this? >> guest: you were a victim of that crime. the most successful foreign intelligence operation in us oil and senator mccain called it an act of war. this is one of my quibbles with the media. they called it meddling. meddling is when your neighbor comes over for dinner and looks in your medicine cabinet. that is middling. this was an invasion. i quote general mark early, a four star general who was in command of the forces looking

to counter russia, general hurdling calls at akin to 9/11 or pearl harbor. he knows what he's talking about, a 4-star retired general. our defenses are better because of what you went through and john podesta went through. our defenses are better but they are going to do different things. in the book i predict, i hope i'm wrong but think i am right, they will use deep fake videos. technology that didn't exist four years ago can make a video, george feel does this with president obama and it is hilarious but you can tell it is a fake. they are going to create videos but look like joe biden or his son or somebody saying or doing some awful thing that is completely fake. we have to be on guard against that, will they fall for it? their defense is up as well.

we have got to be aware this is still going on and not dismiss this as meddling. it is ongoing and quite sure she is right. >> host: professor alan lichtman, presentation to the new york times, you see the notre dame of presidential electoral politics? >> guest: i like alan. he is you. nobody knows, incumbent on all of us who work in these figures but also incumbent on folks to engage, the highest midterm turn out in 100 years, nancy pelosi and her team engaged

folks but folks engaged us. really good guys, i am deterministic, it is in our hands. folks in 2018 did it. i think they are ready to fire this guy. it is up to those of us whose job it has been to motivate them. >> host: i can't help you with the answer, let's see if we can do this. despite explaining donald trump has proposed medicare, medicaid and social security, democrats, the gop health plan, people with preexisting conditions would have been at high risk, up to 10,$000 per month as they did pre-aca.

they were horrified. >> host: one of the lies republicans tell. i don't want people with preexisting conditions to lose their coverage but what they don't say which is fewer notes, they will put you in a higher risk pool and charge 10,$000. that is not insurance, that is highway robbery. we are all at risk. medicare, preexisting condition, we are aging, the likelihood, up to 85%. life happens.

life is a preexisting condition. it is completely at risk and these republicans, not just trump, he is in there but the attorney general of texas, a bunch of republican attorneys general, trying to take away healthcare from decent americans who pay taxes, he doesn't want you to have it. >> host: you address many issues but not racism and gun violence, why is that? >> guest: a separate chapter, the blm movement is essential, had a big impact on me as a middle aged white guy so it has been enormously useful. i talk through the book. if you look after obamacare, 5%

of white people, 9% african-americans, 20% of latinos, still structural systemic races. i should have done a chapter on it, the conversation i love being a part of by communities of color, i tried to shine light on work a lot of people are doing. >> host: got more questions we should biden debate 45? should biden participate in all three debates? >> guest: 100%. hillary wiped the floor with him in the debates. she won every the bait by 60-30 in the polls, wiped the floor with that guy and he hasn't gotten better, he has gotten worse. he is like a glacier, very

slowly melting. the whole sheet of ice falls off and he is having a cast every day, every day so he is melting down. that is why he says joe is not competent because he sees his own ineptitude. i think absolutely 100% joe will wipe the floor with this guy. >> host: how do you assess the strengths and weaknesses of the potential vp candidates? >> guest: i like them all. we had 48 vice presidents. so far white people, white men do all right, 48-48. just to even it up, we would have to have nothing but women vice presidents until 2051.

then we would be even. half the country, half the country. joe has committed to nominating because as we said earlier when you expand the circle of opportunity, the talent pool you got in, probably most of them -- they are all terrific, don't mean to be weaselly but vice president biden had that job and i believe he will choose the person he thinks is most important should something happen but god willing who will be my governing partner the way he was for barack obama and he knows that role better than anybody. you've known him a long time, the interview, personal connection matters a lot.

he is governor, by the time gore was down the hall, they had a chemistry which they had no idea they would have. i don't know, i think the names they are mentioning are phenomenal. >> host: i want to bring up something before we talk about your maiden book. i noticed the word catholic is trending, we are both catholics. the reason it is trending is this is what the president said, if joe biden will hurt the bidens, heard god, this is a direct quote, he is against god. st. joseph catholic church in delaware, joe biden who is a practicing catholic, devoted catholic, faithful man the president said joe biden will hurt the bible, heard god, he

is against god. >> guest: he project. i never took psychology show i shouldn't probably diagnose this man but it seems to me he always accuses others of what he knows in his heart he is guilty of. one of the debates, hillary tried to warn us, and he wants to have a puppet. it is nonsensical. and can't judge his faith. a powerfully devout, perhaps people of faith can see a kindred spirit. it is reprehensible.

i've got to answer this with george lockhart, how do you heard god? sin, the 7 deadly sins. the 7 deadly sins, i will lose some of them, greed, sloth, what are the rest? i've got to look them up a but if you list the 7 deadly sins you get a description of donald trump. >> host: speaking of donald trump, every chapter you gave us another word for the j, jaded, jaundiced, thank you for that. that was wonderful. never thought of that. i love that. trump will refuse to leave the white house even if he loses, what should we do.

>> bill marr was first to raise this. he knows trump and said he will never leave. i think he is right, first time we have an incumbent president and we are reasonable, reasonable people are concerned he will not relinquish power. we never had that before. what do we do? it means joe has to win by more, so much they can't steal it which is why are want him to target texas, georgia, arizona, i want him to target north carolina, states we haven't won in a generation. we haven't won arizona since roosevelt but we can win it, joe can win it. it is not fair, there are no bonus points forgetting three. cross that line but this is

different, joe needs to go through the end zone, the locker room it out to the parking lot and fire up the bus. he has to win by so much, that is on us and it is going to be tremendous pressure on republicans in the senate and in the house. you couldn't find a spine in the republican senate if you had an mri and cat scan and electron microscope that they are going to have to grow up and call him on this. i am terribly worried about that. >> host: the perfect guide to beating donald trump, one of my best chapters, one chapter i will recommend, you got to tell us about that. >> guest: i was privileged to work for president clinton but

he was in the oval office as president-elect this is what president bush said to him, i hope you'll keep the foundation program, president clinton said i guarantee it, give you my word, you will like what we do with it and he expanded it. it was wonderful. clinton expanded that with americorps. president bush expanded and president obama expanded it again. this is in the finest bipartisan tradition of america. but still even after 25 years there are 75,000 people in america who do wonderful things, 45 million young people between the ages of 20 and 30, unemployment rate is 30%, they need to jobs. they need the skills you get at work, they need help to pay for education. what i am proposing is we throw open doors to national service

for anyone who wants to serve the country, the marine corps is not for everybody, americorps can be for everybody if you're willing to serve. we need a senior court to tutor young people, access to the technology or do the distance learning during a pandemic, the national parks have a backlog of $12 billion of repairs these folks could do. the need is endless. this is the second time we produced the greatest generation. these young people will save us all. let's give them the fat chance. i am a huge believer, chris coons, the senate seat joe biden once held introduced a bill, a bunch of republican cosponsors, 75,000 to 1 million, i call that a good start.

>> the last chapter you talked about why trump is in it for himself and it is important for us to make this about us, the american people and why should we make it about us and not just donald trump? >> this terrific novel about afghanistan. the father says to the sun the only real sin is stealing. everything else is a variant of stealing, you kill someone you steal their life. you commit rape used your pledge of fidelity. every sin is selfishness and every sin, every crime is

selfishness, doctor king, what they have done wrong other men can set right. that also encapsulates its choice, donald trump if nothing else is all about himself. he only cares about himself. he is like the 10 or in the opera, me me me me me me. joe biden is the most empathetic person i know. his suffering has bred such empathy and such compassion, this is what doctor king was talking about. i take such inspiration from that, like he was analyzing the election today, the self-centered man has done wrong, other centered men can set right. that is the choice in this election.

>> host: my sister, and thank your beautiful sense, charlie, john, patrick, and charlie. >> guest: they were working for democrats. >> host: who do graduated from law school? >> from law school. he expected a clerkship in texas. you are perfect guide to beating donald from, "you're fired: the perfect guide to defeating trump," a great read. finally got me away from netflix. i enjoyed, i recommend all my friends whether you are working for the biden campaign, this is the book. if you are political junkie please buy the book.

god bless you and your family, thank you for being part of this program. >> thank you both for this, i will add to what donna said, you should read the book, it is a great book, a lot to say and we need to learn from him. that is an inspiration, you always impart a lot of wisdom on the rest of us. a hallelujah moment to have both of you, i hope you stay well and audience members can be safe, be well read and upon a -- paul and donna have admonished us, we all have to get out to the polls in november and help elect the candidates who will get this country back on track. thank you both, what an honor for us and be well. >> guest: thank you politics and prose.

>> booktv spoke with republican senator joni ernst about her life and career. is a portion of the interview. >> i grew up in southwest iowa, a rural part of the state and the dedication. carried me through so many challenges in my lifetime, opportunities, wanted to tell a story to be uplifting. face challenges throughout their lifetime, we understand those challenges don't necessarily have to define us. >> her new book is daughter of the heartland, watch the rest of her interview by visiting our website, booktv.org and searching her name in the box at the top of the page. >> up next, booktv's mth