thank you so much. you thank you all for joining us tonight sure to pick up a copy and we hope to see you again very soon. here is a look at the prime time lineup. maria bartiromo offers her thoughts on how to restart the american economy. james lange argued that the reason they are distracted is due more to current teaching styles. they explore the reasons for burnout and how it mostly impacts millenials. the wall street journal discusses how the conservative movement has evolved since the reagan era. in the former fbi special agent talks about his recently declassified book on the early

years of the early work on u.s. terror. .. .. >> from politics, policy and leadership. my husband, john mccain, fought his whole life to promote american character-driven leadership and democracy to the public, and it's incredibly important today to carry that legacy forward by any means possible. today's installment, the roles of freedom and democracy in american foreign policy, will feature general. r. mcmaster who served in the military for 34 years, and held the position of the 26th 26th assistant to at the president for national security affairs as well as being a close friend of my husband for many

years. he will be talking about his new pock, battlegrounds, the fight to defend the free world. with dr. michael crowe, the president of arizona state university, mccain institute trustee and a dear friend to my family. we're honored to host a pair of thoughtfully -- general mcmaster and professor crowe on what will be a timely discussion on u.s. foreign policy. >> go ahead and begin. >> great. glad to see everybody here. general mcmaster, nice to see you again. what i want to do first is say the book, fantastic piece of work. you got many tags on it. i want to say sometime relative to a set of core ideas you put

out in the book, in fact some i think that are fantastic in the sense they're really concepts we should be using in this articulation of our thinking about foreign policy and national defense policy and so forth. i are difficult rated 20 questions for you. 17 i'd like to have quick answers to-that is not elongated answers and then the last three i want to spend a bunch of time on. the first one is -- we have seen unbelievable chance since 1945. you look at the result of the two great wars of the 20th 20th century. a peaceful europe, economic progress like no one could ever happen possibly imagined, we have the relinement of germany and japan into successful economic democracies. so the question to you is, all back to wilson main promise,

protect, defend and advance democracy. in general, how do you think things are going in general, in the last 120 years in general, how do you think we're doing? >> well, what a professor to be with you and be here at an institute that is named for a man for whom i have tremendous respect. senator mccain, and what a privilege it was to know him over the years and i admire his and his record of service and i admire you and your record of service and what you have done at arizona state. that a wonderful institution. thank you for the ant opportunity to be with us. ought to be pretty happy if. if you look at this last 100 years in the context of the brad sweep of history, i think we have made tremendous progress. especially after the two most destructive wars in modern history, world war i and world war ii. to have crafted ann a an enduring peace without great power conflict and a peace has

liftedded hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. but i think we can't be complacent. >> complacency never works. [loss of audio] >> i lost you there for a second. >> okay. >> let me go to the -- so we sort of do things -- no complacencies, progress, tremendous struggle. in fact it's the struggle for the in some ways the soul and the core of humanity. will we be individually free humanned and advance our own lives based on the corporation principle of of democracy as a species or not. so we have made tremendous progress. and one word you use in battleground is an important one to me as an old huge list and heavy weight wrestler and other things i was involved. in what's the core of the fight and

it's more than mar sham what this cower of the fight. >> the core of the fight is we have to compete effectively, to ensure that our free and open societies remain secure, are prosperous, and it can extend to our influence effectively. i think we have to recognize that we have to compete and reenter arenas of competition because we vacated but a of overoptimism in the 1990 and too much pessimism and resignation in the 2000s, and we are at a fundamental level in a competition between our free and open societies and closed authoritarian systems. >> the fight and the competition is much more than marshal-it's philosophical. it's not cultural, but it's about core principles of who we are as humans, and there are

marshall elements we have to defendant your from being overrun by others or round by others. that the nature of the fight. it's everything basically. >> it's everything. and i make your argue. in the book -- argument for strategic competence and that is the ability to integrate all of our elements of national power with efforts like-mind partner he don't want to militarize policy but don't want to only you democracy or law enforcement or information communication. it's our ability to integrate the experts increase log i integrate efforts across the public private sector and take the proven to problems -- approach to problems which is a interdisciplinary approach to challenges and opportunities. >> bring in your whole -- where you really made some significant contributions to the design of our national dereceives policy and national foreign policy. we're still in the short answer

form. when does something not become any longer a strategic threat? i'll use russia which you talk about and has been a strategic threat to the united states and may still be a strategic threat to the out. i've been to russia many times and i remember my first visit there in 1991 i got a off the plane and said you're kidding me. they don't even know how to gas up an away. -- air plane. they can't float a navy, the economy is declining a dictator who roams the planet doing whatever he wants with this sort of new approach. mexico's economy is now almost as large as russia's economy. there are fading g-20 and mexico is a rising g20, he the question when is a throughout no longer strategic, at what point? >> it's strategic if you have a

massive nuclear arsenal and you're unscrupulous, russia wants to drag everyone else down. putin recognize the restraints, economically, demographically and the covid-19. recently the poisoned his political opponent and engage said sustained campaign of political sub version. what russia really wants to do is sow doubts about who we are as a people to polarize our society, pit us against each other and reduce our confidence in our democratic principles and institutions and processes. russia isn't strong enough to create vulnerabilities in our society but they are strong enough to exploit them, and that is whats we see russia dog. putin's theory of victory is to be the last man standing and to be successful in his campaign of subversion against the free world. >> the classic pigs of a

dictate -- position of a dictator, singularly focus of an individual who has no interest beyond himselfs. >> and driven by the emotions the sense of honor lot of after the collapse of the soviet union and the ambition to restore russia to national greatness. using the tools he has available which are limit it bud also very dangerous. >> dangerous as they decline so perhaps the nature of a different kind of classified -- classification for a strategic relationship. next quick question. before world war ii the u.s. army what a small institution, the military of the united states was generally only expanded for the time of war. we never found ourself in a position of maintaining a war footing or war capabilities for decade after decade. so this is the first anytime our republic's history we have done this. what do you think are the collses or the risks of maintaining -- i'm not saying

it's good for bad it's the way it is. the cost of a permanent war footing. >> a permanent deterrence footing we hope because what you want is you want to build an armed force that can convince your adversaries they could not accomplish their objectives through the use of force against you. we realize in the 20th century if there ever was acknowledge age of free security when north america could rely on the two great moats of the atlantic and pacific ocean, technology elimit nateed that age of free security and we're in an increasingly interconnected and shrinking world in which challenges to our security overseas can quite readily reach our shores and that's whether it's jihaddist terrorists leak september 11th w coronavirus that reached our shores earlier this year. so i think with the argue. in bounds i we have to stay engaged

and we have to have a broad range of defensive capabilities, not just military. to convince or adversaries they can't accomplish they're objectives through the use of force or the use of other means below the threshold of what might elicit a military response. >> so that segways to my next quick question. how do you design a comprehensive defense strategy, military, cyber, bio, climate, politicalern phoenix. the military is not well equipped to deal with those things and not equipped to deal with 0 some of them at all. we look at the response of pandemic we look like a pack ol' of fools because we can get our act together and make command and control decisions and a lot of things going on at all levels, not just the national level. the question is a simple one. how do you design a comprehensive defense strategy and design a comprehensive testifies strategy that is more

than the military. >> start with design thinking. start with frame thing complex challenges, understanding that on their own terms and then viewing them through the lens of our vital interests. why do we? then we can craft goals and subjectives and then the inventory, the tools and advantages we haved a our disposal. that's the beginning of being able to develop a policy and strategy. also important is understanding what are the assumptions are in which we have to operate. the assumption, what are the limits of our competency the system that we have, but also what are our competitive advantages, and very importantly, it's very important to acknowledge the degree to which others have agency, and authorship over the future and recognize the interactive nature. so we dip a lot of these steps in washington and tend to rush to, as we're comfortable with

already or we tend to try to fit everything into a military stovepipe or' cylinder of excellence instead of recognizing the real competence comes with integrating our efforts. >> the design approach is exactly it, and it probably does mean -- you articulate this. you talk about identify and respecting to some extent the agency even of our adversaries or competitors and enhancing the agency of different groups within the united states itself, which means rethinking the entire process as you suggest later in the book and to be nonlinear. we're so linear right now in our thinking we just follow these historic paths and none of that -- as covid has shown none of that works, linear thinking, we knew covid was coming comingd there would be great pandemics. we thought in linear ways and were not ready, i the models were wrong and we misunderstood

the problem. had to learn continuously and document. we weren'ted a agile was we need to be. the words we have to emphasize that is the ability to coordinate and integrate efforts. we're a federal system. we're a republic. and we're not going to have strong centralized control and that -- we would be terrible it's it. he we have to coordinate and integrate more effectively and with the private sector as well. >> in short form, world war and world war ii changed europe and the future every. the lean lighten. was save, social and cultural progress was saved. those two wars ensured the stabilization of europe and it looks like people are no longer interested in the maintenance of this alliance and the many of this western alliance so good or bad. i know the answer but how bad is the nonmaintenance of this

western alliance? >> it's bad. the situation in the prospects are not as bad as we think. i think they're a greg realization we in to -- a growing realization we in at the free world are in this together. you look at the demonstration of the chinese communist party and the wolf order diplomacy and nothing like the prospect of death to focus the mind and i think that in the west, within europe and between europe and the united states the transatlantic relationship over the uunited kingdom and culturally and in terms of principles and values connected to the continent that i think we recognize now we're in a competition. that's the first step. and we have to cooperate together to build a better future for generations to come and i think there's growing realization as we're in this crisis of covid, the recession associated with it, and a cries

of confidence as well. >> one thing you introduce in the book very well and very clearly is this r.n.g.w., russian next generation warfare. i they hold crimea because of their successful implementation of those method odd comprehensive conflict, law fare, social disruption, political disruption, cultural disruption, social media messaging, interruption of democratic processes and a number of those here in our country and other countries around the world. the question then on rngw, if that's what the enemy is using why are we not counter it with the same kind of approach or undermining that approach? short answer. >> we're starting testimony think we're getting more adept at this. when i say we it's the u.s. government but the u.s. government along with allies and partners. there is a lot of great coordination going on with like-minded country that doesn't

mealed the -- doesn't meet the eye. when you look at the contrast when russia's attack on the 20 self-and their lack of effective is in in 2018. you can see some changes in policy that have unleashed our cyber capablities. what i is also point is that you use actually your competitive advantages. what you see in particular with conducting law enforcement investigations that are important not only to indictments and the sanctions on these groups like the internet research agency and -- warfare law fare. >> we have been able to pull the curtain back better and compose in the kremlin to sunlight and that's the best disinfect infect

which and many call now cyber enabled information warfare against us which is part of the overall campaign of political subversion. >> one thing that i kept coming back to in the book was this notion of you're writing this book with the u.s. still remaining as the sole super power on the planet and then i remember the last big sole super power on the planet was rome which then had internalization of conflict. unbelievable social and political disruption, weakness, flats, people being killed on the floor of the senate, the tribunes and the councils at each other's throat and the dem miles of the entire empire. any worries out our empire? >> i wouldn't call it an empire but i have a concern about the free world overall. i think that what you're seeing these days is heartening in

connection with a much higher degree of international cooperation. if you just look at the reaction to recent a aggression by the chinese communist party and how that brought together india, australia, japan and the out, how to work together -- the united states, how to work together with partners on that problem set and then i think the relationship with the eu, with eu countries, with the uk, is getting stronger as well. if our free and open societies work together, especially i think from an economic perspective, japan, the eu and the u.s. cooperating together, it's really going to be tough to beat and i think that's the best shot at convincing our adversaries they accomplish enough another what they want without trying to do it as our expense and the expense of future generations. >> i'll skip around here a little bit. so, you used the great quote if you know your enemy and you know

yourself you need not fear the result of hundreds of battles. i say to myself, we do know russia, and they were defeated by us. did we know vietnam? >> no, we didn't know vietnam. and this was the topic of a previous book i wrote [loss of audio] -- and -- [loss of audio] -- >> host: do we know china? >> i think we're learning more about china. i think what we have that's narcissistic view of china, we defined china in real estate to out and. we two can change china. if we welcome china into the international community, they'll play by he rules like recall a's and change their -- liberalize and change their form of government but that wasn't the case because we underestimated the degree which ideology and emotion drive this

constraint of the chinese communist party in particular. he. we all know china is anything but monolithic or home homogenous. it's important to distinguish between the chinese people broadly and the chinese communist party which is small permanent of the chinese people and they're in power. >> in the 15 largest cities of china and several of them many times and a lot of actives that hundreds of thousands of organizations, american organizations, companies, universities and eyes, working in china, doing things in china, work with the people, not so much with the government but with the people and with the economy in lots of ways. do we know iran? >> i don't think so. i write the book, a policy toward iran has missed two big aspects of understanding the behavior of iranian. the ideology of the regime and the ideology of the revolution and really who is in charge are revolutionaries.

they were won, you can say republicans andrevolutionaries won out. the ayatollah and how they viewed the word, that was interesting the way you brought in the multiple ayatollahs. description this is an element of this, theocratic dictatorship. this second fact we miss sometimes is iran has been fighting a proxy war against us for four decades, and so we tend to focus on a discrete issue. what is iran doing in iraq or syria, lebanon, the nuclear program? what i think is very important to understand these challenges pole his stickily and put together a policy and strategy that understands the full range of this tim challenge. >> if we'll take -- i find it your like him, a general, a writer, philosophyer, thinker

mitch son ryan was in afghanistan six or seven times on nation, building projects, working on projects with the u.s. agency for international development, while the combat operations were still going on around the country, and i remember him telling me how difficult it was to have the military and the civilians working together in the actual art of nation-building, and he told me story after story of complexities we had the gps locate that i gave him so i would know where to go get him. this was a civilian, not a military unit. and so what about nation building? we go in and we eliminate the taliban threat through combat arms. we become engaged in a more successful way than all of the british attempts fighting in some sense the same groups over time. yet we have not built a nation yet and so what is your thinking about that part of what we do

when we undertake such projects? >> obviously has to be the people of the nation who build a nation. and i think often times we go in and try to do too much ourselves in the case of afghanistan we neglected this very important task of consolidating military to get through the sustainable outcome there and then after that neglect we realized it and then we dumped too much money and resources in country, beyond the capacity of the country and did it in a way that was not sensitive to traditions and history of and culture of afghanistan. >> all those things you just mentioned are knowable. the military there is to protect, defend and defeat the enemy. that protect our assets, protect our interests, defend our interests, and defeat the enemy. that's the purpose of the military, while see same time out of the other corner of me thought trying to below the

country. same things in vietnam at the same time as you'll know and as you wrote about. yet neither were successful by the -- anywhere near the level of investment. didn't produce the kind of results. so there's some other way to do this? >> yes. the way is actually let's learn from experience and next time we don't go in under the illusion that the war can be fast, cheap and efficient and you can take what you might call the george could stanza approach and just leave on a high note. the consolidation of gains has always been an integral part of war. otherwise you have to consolidate. that doesn't mean turning afghanistan into denmark. >> noriega was a raid. one last quick question. i dropped the other ones off. i thought your quote of keith alexander was the greatest

transfer of wealth in history and i'm like, well north really but the -- just for food for thought, okay, it's great for general alexander to say that but how do you defend against that? and so it's like we don't have the right rules but set that aside. yaw helicopter the middle east as strategy strategically important. why it strategic important. the reliance of the regrown solid dis and others are enforesting in new future economies. you talk about that just in quick form whys they're still strategy lick important. >> the problem inside the middle east student in the middle east, and -- don't stay in the middle east and this involves squadist terrorism, organizations to thrive in an environment, one of sectarian civil war across the region. what that war does and as an

educator understand better than probably most people is that there's a cycle or ignorance been, hatred and violence and that's sectarian conflict is perpetuating ignorance. how many children are going to school there? and then the ignorance -- the people in that part of world want to go to college and can't. >> right. then it's easy, the void -- to foment hatred, hatred of the other and use that hatred to justifies violence against innocents and that environment perpetuatesser ignorance. so that cycle has to be broken. >> destabilization. the ability to destabilize all kind things and that's the threat. >> and to attack really all civilized people. you have to remember the greatest victim of jihaddist terrorists are fellow muslims but these are determined to

commit mass murder on our territory and the europe and elsewhere as the principal pack in a war against all civilized people and these organizations are more dangerous today than september 10, township. -- 2001. this has a lot to do with being orders of magnitude in terms of people. as the mujahideen. chitted the mast murder in 9/11, various groups, alumni of these organizations are more mobile, they have greater technological capability and they have access to -- trying to get access to most destructive weapons on earl. it's an argue. to be vigilant and work with partners in the region to make sure the groups don't gain the

strength so they can then us again on the sale of 9/11. >> we don't have much time left before questions but you bring in antwan -- an township -- antoine scientific way of warfare. he says what is required is a holistic approach that does not seem to isolate open systems but apprehended their environment in profound increments. a profound thing to understand, enough open systems. the notion of understanding these open systems. you can't aisles late these things and then kit off and then hope that somehow hat will solve it, and so how do we design a national defense system, including a military and other things. has to be more than the military by the implication of an open system. economic, cultural, religious, social, military, where would you start?you have to start the

national level. these have to be peep. these are people who-understand that the complex causality of events and phenomenon but also understand the told that can be brought to bear. have to be people who are intellectual, but also practice televisioners arizona well -- practitioners as well. the diploma efforts, psycher efforts, law enforcement, financial action, economic actions and it can be done. it can be done if these teams of civil servants but also drawing on academia and the private sector come together around these problem sets. >> doesn't seem to be easily implemented yet. i know the military is trying to do this in a number of new centers and a number of new initiatives, things related to

new kind 067 warfare and conceptualization, future command, other things ongoing. you were part of helping to conceptualize a lot of these things. how do you allow the military to keep it is esprit de corps and discipline and culture and yet at the same time open that culture and that is esprit de corps and engagement to others? >> i think a way to do it is education. i rereceived a tremendous gift in the middle of my career right after operation desert storm. i went to graduate school at the university of north carolina, obtained a degree in history and teach history and this is the adult education model. in the military. we have it already. you have formative challenge experiences as a young person and thenup get an educational experience and allow you to reflect on your experience and prepare for future responsibilities responsibilities and so toe learn about life -- to learn about life, in this case for me

military history which i felt quite relevant to my career. >> it may be that flag officers and senior field grade officered in american system are most acuterly and trained individual inside our entire society, and then out of the military, though the awareness of the military and mill -- military culture goes down and there's a disconnect that we need figure out how to solve that. how would you solve that. >> we have to allow people to move more fluidly and easily between the private sector, the military, the public sector and academia. personnel policies that make that easy to do. somebody wants to contribute who hat a certain expertise in military or government agency of some kind, that we ought to be able to welcome them in at a mid-career level and allow them to move back and forth. this is why i think the reserve

model its very -- >> a lot of people made lieutenant commanders in the the navy and brought in and mate stuff happen in world war ii but be don't at that time anymore. >> absolutely. the ceo of general motors ran the industrializeddation. what we are seeing now is threats -- you mentioned russian knew generation war -- new generation warfare and they operate not against or military or government but they operate against our private sector and you see that in academia as well. so we all have to be better educated. so i wrote the book i hope it will help people understand better the challenges we face. >> i think it does a great job doing. the last question before we turn back over to been cole you get your mcmaster four rev luthes,

one the nsc must deliver optionality. you have to understand more of the nature of the problems themselvesful three, you need all government involved, not just the military. and, four, no linearity quantum forces. so then if apply this -- this to covid and with did not do anything of them. have to assume that somebody decided that groel pandemicked are not a national security threat and they are. >> this the difference between planning and implementation and execution. you have a beautiful plan, but if you can't implement it, it's not going to be effective.

>> the seven p's, in the army. >> sure. >> proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. >> we. understood i think what it would take that we being the u.s. government across multiple administration starting with george w. bush who had tremendous forthsight. he -- the power of history. read an historical account of the 1918-1919 pandemic after nine. he convened the national security team and said we have to a frontal problem anded in -- a potential problem. >> i saw a speech he gave out lining what we should do and we didn't do anything of that it. >> we did then froth and we compromise edifier efficiency for effective in the. one problem is how we have sufficiently in supply chains over what is necessary to -- this i problem with ppe and been farm soviet union --

pharmaceutical. we didn't stockwhile pi what we needed. we'll probably do this again itch hope we development. hopefully we won't forget the lessons. >> the picture is good and i think the picture is fantastic. i think the book is a straightforward honest perception of where we are, the breaking the cycle, resolution for national security council, very significant contributions. what is strategic empathy? >> strategic empathy is the ability to view complex challenges and tubs from the perspective of the other. and it's the best -- >> the adversary. >> especially adversaries, rivals and enemies. the ant dote, strategic narcissism the tendency to assume what we do is -- decide

not to do is does does -- the couple. a book called the sense of the enemy and it's important because as you mentioned number of these challenged conducive toward linear progress. there's a continuous interaction win many other actors including rivals and enemilies and very complex environment colorado you need an overarching policy distract but the strategy has to be flexible in implementation and in execution. >> i remember -- i did read your book about vietnam. i was trapped in maine a few summers ago and read a book on the bookshelf of this house that my wife's family owns and it was an army history back they bought at some yard sale during by an

army historian during the vietnam war and was nothing but ho chi minh, and they shade ho chi minh is thele -- like george washington and he said we don't understand these people. we don't understand who this person is weapon don't understand anything about what we're involved. in it was like army report 99-66 and i just had to read it. i remember being profoundly affected by the notion of our lack of understanding, this lack of strategic empathy and so aim glad you were able to bring that out. so i appreciate that. so, cole, i don't know what we do next. open if the floor for questions but general, thank you very much. great book. great to have a chance to talk with you and i appreciate all that you have done. >> thank you. what privilege it is, professor crow to be with you and thank you so much. >> cole are we opening it up to questions or -- want me to keep

going? i have all this to go off of. >> thank you again for joining us. we do have some use effort smithed -- user submitted questions. dr. crow you can keep going with questions you have or we can scroll through and look at some of the ones that are submitted from our audience. >> those are -- i'm looking at some of those right now. just taking a quick look. people that are greeting you in hawaiian so that's very good a lot of-the-questions you should get all of these questions. here's one i think that is you have already addressed a little bit. so here we're sitting here, and china is moving forward two global economies are eme. , tied with each other, whether

we like it or and not there's all kind of -- it's like we're playing a hockey gave with no rules. this chinese are allowed to check the americans without any penalty. there's no penalty box. if if you had three things to do -- i'm drawing the question -- three things to you can do relative to china where would you start. >> i think i would start on china's forms of economic aggression and step up win evident with japan, the expo others to demand reciprocity in connection with access to the chinese market, the chinese access to our market and then also reciprocity in connection with listing on our exchanges. i think in general we should treat china like any other country and demand those same sunshines. actually make them -- make good on the promise they made when the withdraw from the wto which is to play by the rules if the second is to strengthen the military partnerships in the

indo-pacific so ensure that china is unable to use this combination of co option and satellite. s of with countries and engage in the largest land grab in history. in the south china sea. there's a military dimension as well. the third thing i would recommend is more introspective. make ourselves better. let's take advantage of our competitive advantages. in the chapter in battlegrounds i argue what we should turn what the chinese communist party views is a weakness into our greatest strengths and this would be freedom of expression in and freedom of the press, our free market instead of a state-driven economic system. it is our rule of law instead of the rule of a single party, and it's strengthening democratic processes. in a meaningful way. the way they juror john

mccain -- senator john mccain advocated for his entire crime don't think anybody is culturally predispostal serviced to not wanting a say in their government and we shouldn't impose jefferson democracy. but those who are willing to help themselves, who want to reform, i think we and the rest of the free world should support those efforts. >> i was thinking of senator mccain, mark green, ambassador mark green the new director of the mccain institute and he asked what are you most proud of from your day advertise nsa? >> i'm most proud of the shift in and ask the approach to china think that overall with did put this process in place that you have summarized to frame from, understand. the on their own terms view them from the lens of our open interests and to make impresssive assumptions that often -- imimplies signature

assumption. we implemented what is a few bipartisan dish hope i will be a bipartisan, nonpardon me pardon meship accommodation and engagement, recognition we have to compete and re-enter some critical arenas of competition from which we have been absent. . >> so one questionle'll modify. that was sent in. as you suggested, president bush focused on the risks pams. the third corona in 20 years. this first two were less con tame yous, more deadly. this one is real estate dealtly, very -- less deadly and more contagious weapon had the ebola incident and the military of the u.s. and as yaos u was not involved and we weren't ready. there will be a pandemic now within every five to ten years cycle is probable because of the

biosome complexity of the planet. so. we can't good through this again and so how do we ensure that when we learn something, it sticks and whoever happens to be elected president of the united states -- i'm not commenting but the present president. imtalking about this office. can't say, never mind. i don't believe in this. >> right. >> how do you do that? >> well, i think you have to actually study this most recent experience the short come examination our response and really learn from them. i've been so disappointed how partisan this issue has become and so what i did is i asked for volunteers of some students at stanford and we have a study less beyond learned from the the

covid-19 pandemic. >> host: one of your students. >> she and is a great job. the method we used was simple. we just interview people across the public and private sector who has a central role in respond together the pandemic and we asked them what went well, what went wrong and what do you recommend and synthesize the perspectives into the report and run all they partisan politics out of it. we val late lead to key tasksful stoop pandemic before it starts at the origin is. thank you chinese communist party. couldn't do that but better global global veins. the second is millionizing a biomedical response. supply chains and the number one reason we couldn't -- is ineffective coordination and integration, sharing of author

tatetive data between the level of. government and seven public and private sectors because we have a hybrid health-care system. that's the number one, coordination, integration, sharing of data. and then the third suspect is innovation -- third aspect is innovation. for therapies, and for vaccines. think we are going to come out okay on that. because there's been investment across many years in that area, and you're seeing that now, and this is from the u.s. government, the gates foundation, others who have contributed -- >> at asu we received a lot of funding from barta and from darpa so we are building a point of care, sampling device, you pit in it and tells you whether you have coronavirus or not, covid or not and then communicates withure cellphone, green light, move ahead immediately. so we're work on that. all as a function of the

infrastructure of scientific investment we have. so, cole, how are we doing for time? >> we're good. we have 15 minutes left if you want to fill that time however you want. >> here's a tough question and i ask you as a former general officer in and the role of the military no pill politic. whoever is elected president says i'm not leaving. >> they don't get to say that and won't be able to say that. what is brilliant -- our founders were brilliant. i think they were brilliant. they were flawed. our republic has always been a work in progress but at our founding the asked each other what's the worst thing that could happen and then of them lived-0 their parents or grandparents lived through to the bloody wars of the 1st 1st century in england market and -- george washington's grandparents fled the english civil war and he had very much

in his mind the specter of a man on horseback, oliver cromwell who would undo our democracy and the danger of falks, read political parties and how partisan we have become and how that can lead of violence and divisions in our society. one way to make sure our democracy can survive is separate the powered the executive branch has no say in a secession of government. it's only the congress and judiciary who has a say. and so i'm not worried about this. when people speculate the role of military that's just damaging in and of itself. all of us have responsibility to keep that bold line in place between the military and our government. nobody elects generals. they're not accountable to the people in our system. so it is very important for -- to maintain civil control of the military and important for politics on bottom sided not to try to drag the military some

partisan politics. what bothers me are thieves these duals lists admirals and generals. i think i respect the right of those retired flag officers to sign up or do whatever they want, say whatever they want but i think they have to recognize that could come with a cost and serving in our military should be rewarding, challenging, fulfilling, for you no matter what political party your from. nobody cares and when you're fighting in combat you're look look at the man or women next to you saying what's their color of their skin, religion, plate political party. or bound together by mutual trust and respect and you become a family. where the man and woman next to you is willing to give everything including their own lives for you and i think we have to remember that as americans. we have attacked september 11. they attack americans and not

republicans or democrats and we're becoming so divided from each other, it's incumbent, whether in our family or community or university to come together and restore confidence in would we are as a people, what he welcome agree on maybe before we talk but what we disagree on. >> so, my -- one questioner from afghanistan and he is asking you your viewnote peace accords with the taliban. when i read but the peace accords i'm like, i remember reading in churchill's diary, his first engagement actually in combat on the border of then india, now pakistan and afghanistan, and what he talk but in terms of the nature of the tribal warfare there and the other things going on, and so just very, very complex, and so the question is do you think at the taliban and their regional

allies including pakistan, which you do write about significantly in the book -- irsincere in their commitments and they'll cut ties with al qaeda and other terrorist groups and then can we get broader in a sense positive evolution in the region? do you think we're moving in the right direction? >> absolutely not. think what we're doing is an utter disaster and we and the afghan people sadly may have to pay a much eye i here price. this is ultimate in strategic narcissism. conjured the enemy we wanted in afghanistan instead of the enemy that really exists. there is no bold line and mr. norris knows this as well. he is a irany and -- he understands the evolution of the taliban think brutal rule on the afghan people from 1996 to 2001, and the afghan people don't what this. we partner if witness a mall

minority of actually -- small minority of odious people who have inflicted great harm on humanity by sponsoring al qaeda but they brutalled. thes. these are people who acknowledge -- don't acknowledge any degree of human rights, especially women's rights. so the question is like what is power shining and power bombing look like? is that mass executions in the soccer stadium every a other sat and every other girl school is bulled to he. partnering with taliban against the afghan government and what the taliban negotiators are saying to afghany, they're saying, ahey, we beat the world residents greatest super pour. who are you to negotiate with us. you have nothing to bring though table trying to dictate term for power showering and al qaeda schnell taliban are meet andly intertwined and it's a demonstrable fact and i could go on. it's in the book. awful this is in the book. but it's frustrating to me.

i think that this is the perfect example of strategic narcissism at work. >> we have a question, do you think north korea will show some sort of bring here before the u.s. presidential election to influence the election and i a bling being some kind of missile action, missile threat, missile test, additional threats, target threats, japans bill addition. >> it's more likely after the election what kim jong-un wants to get back to previous failed effort to the denuclearize and the cycle is a big provocation, nuclear test and long range missile tension and the win clamor can we talk to and you then north korea feigns indefense and this chaos in the form of reduced satisfactions or

payoffs to regime for the privilege of talking to them and then a long, drawnout frustrating association that bring as weak agreement, doesn't change anything and then sets north korea touch break the agreement and repeat the cycle. reality not do that, i think is what we should resolve to do. at the election there will he like lay provocation, much like in 2016 to 20 17, very high period of activity in north korea. a big question is the regime getting ament more fragile. you had kim jong-un apologize to south korea, which is something unusual, he's been disappearing for weeks at a time. we think maybe covid has been the best mechanism to enforce u.s. security council sanctions, and also gives a new class ematernalling in pyongyang, a

class of sort of the emerging middle class who has benefited from the krups authoritarian system who has more to lose than in the past. this is the world's only her red tear communicate dictatorship and they defied predictions of their collapse for many decades. >> a strange art tact of a 70 -- artifact of a 70 year order war. a world war ii are fact unresolved art fact. was in africa, in ghana, in upcountry in other parts of the ghana, working on different projects we have going on there. and what i noted is everywhere i went -- i walked into very impoverished communities no returning water no sewage treatment, but there were soccer

feels and field hockey and other sports and every single kid i saw was wearing chinese uniformed that has been bought by some local chinese business with chinese mandarin lettering on the africain team. an english speaking african country with unbelievable investment its with microbeens and helping and eparts of the world i've been and other parts of africa, it's the same thing, and it's like we're there, we're working at university level, we're doing projects, making things happen, and that is about it. i didn't see a lot of other american influences there. so, when you think but africa with a billion people and unbelievable economic potential and unbelievable complexity and security threats, my son has been in nigeria and also in

congo, working on projects where american interests are being advanced. what's your thought but africa? i think we decide not to take the come -- comprehensive approach of economic, political, social, financial, cultural, all suspects like china. we're other than that. what's you're thinking about africa. >> we have to think of itself on its own terms and respect the african people. them promise. with the youth population if given the opportunity with education and with economic growth and opportunity, could be incredibly productive for the world and there's great dangers and china exacerbates the danger with the support for authoritarian regime. that still the freedom of -- still of people on the

continent. zimbabwe is the poster child of that in connect with china exporting its model to the authoritarian regime and invest in the africa in large measure for ex-tracktive reasons. china wants to dominate advanced manufacturing the in the emerging data economy and global economy and to do it i think it many cases at the expense of others and nigerian, recently passed a resolution against chinese influence there, and i think there's a big aspect of this that has to do with the interconnected issues of energy, environment, climate change, health security, and water security. we have to look at these interconnected problems, as interconnected and we have to work with african leader dos the african private sector to help the continent succeed because if we don't, all those problems don't respect borders and what

we're saying is china talks a good game on the environment but they're building 50 to 70 coal fired plans a year. in africa in kenya, a coal fired plan the biggest carbon emitter in kenya right next to a unesco heritage sight. we have to call out the activity and be part of the solution. ... we are doing a lot now. china investment as you identified are massive abilities. they're largely thinking doubt building these relationships. some journalists are now calling

the new form of colonialism. i think our position on this, dollar for dollar, broadway see that anyway. most of our district, the vast majority is a private sector investments. i think the approach that mark took, and subsequent session . "citizen mack-politics, an honorable calling" here is a vision for reinventing the u.s. approach to aid. it has tremendous potential. and i think you need to be amplified and implemented across the multiple administrations. when he is directing at the usa. >> i hope the book is doing very well. and i think it is provocative in the sense that you been infected by the stanford design logic. in your offering a number of design pathways. so thank you for the chance to talk a little bit about the book. i look forward to continuing our discussion on other things and thank you for connecting up in helping us to have these kinds of discussions get up to his any

people as possible. so thank you for being here. and i don't know what we need to do to sign off. but anything you would like to say at the end here. >> just thank you. you have great work that you do that the state. thanks theo and mark my friend. thank you. >> all it is to you. >> thank you for joining us. and everyone in our audience, thank you for joining us as well. our next session of our book talk series will be on tuesday october 20th. with mark talking about his new book, the luckiest man. to be moderated by senator. thank you again very much for joining us today. >> thank you logical. >> thank you. >> there are some of the current best-selling nonfiction books

according to the strand bookstore in new york city. topping the list is my own words, collection of that they supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg's speeches and writings. that is followed by we should all be feminist. who explains her definition of feminism for the 31st century. and it's pulitzer prize-winning author on which he calls a hidden caste system in the united states. after that author bell hooks examines the role of love and society. and how does changing and all about love. and wrapping up some of the best-selling nonfiction books, according to new york city strand bookstore is intimations, a collection of essays a novelist smith on the early days of the covid-19 pandemic. some of these authors have appeared on book tv, you can watch them online a booktv.org. you are watching book tv on

"c-span2", television for serious readers. harrison programs to watch out for. tomorrow, and noon eastern were taking a look back at the last 20 years or a monthly author interview program "in depth". it was highlights from past shows. from the authors who have appeared over the years and some of them are your favorites. and tonight, on afterwards, wall street journal discusses how the conservative movement has evolved since the reagan era. visit booktv.org. for more schedule information. check your program guide. here's a look at some books being published this week. patriots the late author examines the political lives of alexander hamilton. thomas jefferson and john adams. french journalists, reports on the efforts of a group of syrians to build a library during the country civil war. in the book collector. in the finding bunch, he recalls

the world war two veterans participated in an arms resistance it gets political corruption and voter fraud in tennessee. in 1946. also being published this week, and 43, author james collins remembers the allied invasion in italy during world war ii. and historian alan most of the impact of world war ii vet of britain. in britain at bay. find these titles this week wherever books are sold. watch for any of the authors in the near future on book tv, on "c-span2". ♪ ♪