>> watch booktv on c-spa this weekend. >> former press secretary to john boehner and speaker of the house and former counselor to speaker paul ryan. mr. bucket, let's begin with election.

what do you think is a a statef the republican party after november 3? it's frightening. it's an election we had the rare event of an incumbent president getting voted out and yet republicans seem pretty happy generally with the outcome not because he lost the because on ballot they did so well. there's a lot ofal expectation that afterxp this election if te polls right and it would be a blowout for democrats, that the be a lot of grappling with in the party about what it stands for and what the future is and from here. have seen that at all. in a lot of ways republicans feel like what the outcome particularly down ballot is justification of everything thee president has been doingic and that trumpism has worked. q q had a situation where democrats were expected to take another ten to 12, t 15 feet and the fact have lost close to that in the house. certainly democrats are very

demoralized about not getting the senate. everybody that was hoping for or expecting perhaps i conversation among the party about what we really stand for i think that is put off and for the time being despite the fact that he lost i think you're still going to be donald trump's party and is going to be the bigger voice. ess for and had higher job losses. ultimately this election was more about donald trump than joe biden or any other particular factor. this was a referendum on donald trump and i think a lot of people who came out were really just trying to send a message to the president. the biggest areas of the country, if you're looking for the story of the election, the biggest areas of the country that put joe biden over the top or the suburbs, with more educated, affluent white women who had had enough.

they came out in droves. that's ultimately what drove the outcome of the election. i think a lot of us expected that covid would have a bigger impact. and i think joe biden's mandate coming out of this is to address .hat crisis but jobs, the economy, all secondary to donald trump, his peonality and a referendum on him as a person. host: if that's the case and, how can you say trumpism worked? guest: i'm not necessarily saying it does, i'm saying that's what a lot of republicans have internalized from this. i think if there was a blowout election you would see republicans saying we need to rethink this. but given the strong showing down ballot, the way republicans are still in office have taken this is to say that maybe the politics that drives grievance, that cells with republican voters and it

shows we can turn voters. i don't know if that's a good long-term play. i don't know if you could have trumpism without trump. there's going to be a lot of people are going to try to position themselves to be in the 2024 standardbearer. whether or not they could do that with trump hanging out is an open question. i think a lot of people were , and people are trying to adopt populist policies that president trump made famous. i don't think it's necessarily a good long-term plan but it seems like they're not moving away from it. host: what advice would you give to the party about ming adjustments, based on the outcomend theurnout that you saw in suburbs and other areas. thet: for me the story of election is that character matters. that was really what was on the ballot in these places. i don't think the suburban areas are necessarily progressive.

i think that's why we saw down ballot races go so poorly for democrats. it's interesting, if you look at the polling over time, people ask who do you think is going to when, not who do you want to win. you saw people thinking donald trump going to win. and towards the end a number of voters woke up in the polling showed that more voters thought joe biden would win. when they thought joe biden would win they thought perhaps they should maybe put a check on a biden presidency. that tells me that voters in these areas are not necessarily signing up for a bold progressive agenda, tax increases, they just wted to end the donald trump presidency. there's a lot of opportunities to win back those voters. but you need to show that you learned a lesson, that you are not just a trump party. that you have ideas, that you care about things, that you have

character, and those things matter. particularly in the margins we are talking about. host: who, in the party, represents the future? guest: certainly right now it is still donald trump. i think people are looking for what's next. we are not at that point yet. it's obviously been reported the president is talking about running again in 2024. i would be shocked if he does not at least present the appearance that he is gonna do that for the next two to three years. but he's going to have the largest voice. there's always this recency bias, and does his light dim because he loses? perhaps. tohink it's important appreciate that the party does not exist in the way that used to. there's no real establishment. we have personalities these days. donald trump is clearly the biggest personality. and the way he has taken hold

over voters is the most important thing to appreciate. it's not that members of congress who go along with whatever he says are doing it because they like him, necessarily. or respect them personally. it's because when they go home and they hear from their constituents number one thing their constituents want to know is are you with the president? i heard so many times when i was in the house. trying to sell the bill, here's the reason you should vote for that. members would say i am with you, i understand what i need to hear that trump is for because that's all my constituents care about. and the a lot of voters number one issue for them to support for the president or that hold up in congress and colors the entire party. are there other people who may want to take the party in a different direction? obviously there's mitt romney who has staked out his own ground i don't know if he has interest in running ever again. ben sasse is not a donald trump style republican. the problem for them is that the

lane is very narrow for those many of people, because so republicans are donald trump republicans. he's taken over. they could try to leave a movement but i don't think there's a lot of space. a lot of voters are not leading to a movement because there aren't any there. host: we have what representative kevin mccartney just said after he was just elected to the minority leader position again. [video clip] ipresentative mccartney: think the president, regardless of whether he's the president or citizen trump, he will play a part in this nation. i look at the number of members got elected, they got elected under president trump, who helped them get elected in the process. we expanded the party, how will it look different? water -- broader. it will reach more people. it will expand like we have not

from new americans, to first-generation, to expansion without. you will continue to see and it -- a desire to put america on a path where the next century is ours. we have rebuilt the military to continue that, to make it stronger, despite what the progressives would want to do on the opposite side. we have looked forward to making the streets safe and secure despite what the other side wants to do about defunding the police. we have wash what we have been able to do with criminal justice, despite what joe biden had done as senator, locking people up based upon the color of their skin. we will continue to build on all of those things we believe in. thosewhy is he making specific points? guest: is making a point that republicans had a really good election night down ballot. and expanded their numbers by electing women. by adding african-americans and

asian americans to the conference and away we have not been able to do in a while. he has a good story to tell from the election. and that the president seemed to minorities, with particularly hispanic voters, there's a story to tell. whether that's enough to get you over the top, i don't know. going ton mccarthy is be doing is really running hard against the joe biden administration. kevin did an incredible job in bringing republicans right near the finish line. we are going to have a republican minority, you need 218 and they have 214. so close. to fromd to do now is just being a donald trump party to being a good opposition party , running against that progressive agenda. host: how you do that, if you are in your role that you have been in, to the speaker's

office, what advice would you be giving kevin mccarthy right now about how he plays out the next two years? onst: he needs to be focused the democrats. it's much easier to be a minority party when you have an administration today gone to the biden administration's legislative agenda has probably taken a serious hit without having control of the senate but we don't know that for sure and it seems that way. that means there's no shortage of things that joe biden will end up doing through administered actions, executive orders that i think will fly in the face of what average americans were expecting from a joe biden administration. joe biden ran as a centrist. i think he is naturally a centrist. but he's facing a lot of pressure from the left, the progressive wing of his party to do more, to go bigger and be bolder. i think you'll end up doing a lot of those things. i don't think the country

centerleft. i think the country center right. that will provide a lot of opportunities, to the extent that joe biden has to continue aoc's of the world. and he will have to do that. those are robert -- those are opportunities to remind people that who is in the house makes a difference. they can serve more as a check on the biden administration tha's the most powerful message you have going into 2022, it will party can serve as a check. you always ask the question, would you rather have a congress that helps the president pass their agenda or one that serves as a check? overwhelmingly, the american people like checks and balances. that's the message i'm sure kevin mccarthy will run on. host: and he has promised, or edicted, that republicans will take back the house in 2022.

let's take calls, sabrina in north carolina, on the independent line. caller: i'm curious on the stimulus packages. is notstand that biden for those but we desperately need them. asheville has several businesses closed due to covid and there's hardly any work. so my question is, do you think that biden is going to pass any relief packages for the people? i think he wants to. one of the situation -- this is one of those situations, where everyone wants to do something. i'm disappointed congress didn't get something done. from my perspective nancy pelosi got in the way of that, that she did not want to change the

election. she was clearly running out the clock on the trump presidency, thinking she could potentially get a better deal with biden. i think that's a risky proposition. the idea that republicans who are hesitant to get there andre donald trump administration are now going to come and be with a isen administration on covid -- i'm skeptical. do i have confidence anything will happen now? all appearances are no. does not even seen that there are conversations taking place. the president has not demonstrated a lot of interest in governing. but i think it will be a top priority of the biden administration. if there was a mandate beyond being a good guy, it was to resolve this crisis, not just the public health crisis must be -- but the economic crisis.

he will have to find a way to do things. the problem is what senate republicans want and what he wants and what nancy pelosi wants are in -- are different in detail and scope. this is where joe biden's reputation will have to come into play. he's known as somebody who can get along and has a track record of working with mitch mcconnell to get things done. but there a long playing field here before they can get to the finish line. in quincy,, michan, a democratic caller. caller: good morning. congress,licans in from what i remember, expressed their real opinions on donald ,rumbefore he was elected which is basically that he's a joke, a carniv barker, a con

man, all supported by his trump university lawsuits, whe he had to pay out what was it? over $20 million for defrauding stents? $2 million for defrauding charities? anyway. they gave their real opini. jettisoned jet -- all integrity, except for perhaps mitt romney who has a to thehat doesn't hinder to the base,r which is a cult of personality. is, i've twoon questions. happened to the republicans that cared about deficits?

host: let's take that question. guest: you're starting to see them do that now. that was one of the biggest hangups on the covid relief package. nancy pelosi was talking about deal in herrillion first offered. one of the things that really setback negotiations early on with you had a lot of republican senators who strayed out the gate said we are not interested in spending that much money. the first timele .he cares act passed trillions of dollars that has to in days with big republican support. that was unthinkable a few years ago. but it is starting to catch up with them a little bit, certainly deficits have been going up. this was a president that never really cared about them. mild boss try to convince him of the importance of that and he made very clear early on that

that was not something that motivated him. there's only so much you can ask out of republicans who keep voting for trillions of dollars in spending. early on that was one of the hangups. i think donald trump had leaned into this early on, it was not until september or october he woke up to the fact that this was not getting done. i think it was too late at that point. if you had come out earlier in the summer and set republicans you need to do this and get behind this, there might have been a different story. but his absence left many republicans coming out saying we are not spending this much money . that's why the bill that senate republicans have come up with this only in the level of 500 million. far less. republicans had enough spending. joanne, in nevada, a republican. delegate incame a

2008 because i did not like the centrist mccain. to electingent centrists and there was no area for them to go to to bargain on the deal. everybody met in the middle, everybody was happy. everyone collected their salary. i worked for mccain to bring in votes for him. we could not get people out to vote for him. mitt romney, we cannot gather 20 meete in a carwash to because nobody liked him. he did not bring the party together. trump has brought the party together. right, let the

democratic party go to the left and let's make the deal and meet in the middle. you people have let us down a bad road -- let us down about road for 30 years. i'm tired of centrists. ?ost: is that what happened when republicans held the majority in the house, when you were there serving speaker paul ryan, is that the strategy and did it work? guest: that caller is a great example of the state of our politics. there is very little center. i would argue that there's very little dealmaking going on. we are very divided and both parties have largely taken the approach that you stick with each other and bring out your base and fire up your run voters and that the path ahead. volatile type of politics. but i would disagree little bit, does not lead to a lot of deals being made. what ends up happening is you have a breakdown in the legislative process because

there's no compromise at any stage. you have to govern by crisis. i mean government funding aadlines, the fiscal cliff is great example where we are running up against a deadline because there was no ability for lawmakers to do their job before that because nobody was willing to compromise before that. sase leaders come together at the last minute to try to stave off crisis and avert disaster and pass a deal at the last minute. it's a terrible way to legislate but it's what we are left with. i understand why people are frustrated seeing that. reflectionhat it's a that the polarization has not allowed us to come together as a functioning legislative system. , in newt's go to fred york, an independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to say that both local parties are puppets. you get a guy like trump, not

controlled by either political party, i thought he would get assassinated. theyught won't happen if had a non-democrat or non-republican president. i figured democrats and republicans would get together and assassinate him. i think donald trump didn't get a -- assassinated because he was under the republican banner. host: let's go to john, in new jersey. caller: on the next republican republican.x i liked john mccain, i'm a vietnam veteran. i went to war for men like donald trump to say hey listen, i have bone spurs, and take golf lessons instead of taking care of this pandemic. guilty party and him are of spreading this nasty disease

around the country and the gentleman on the panel, i care about your party i quicker party because it has nothing to offer me. i only care about me like donald trump tears about him. -- cares about him. he has not admitted to the president-elect that he has won the election is because he wants to hold onto something that he ain't got. he stole the apprentice from mark buffet a and did no good that were building his buildings atlantic city. in, do'm going to jump you think it's time for president trump to concede the

race? guest: oh certainly. issensical -- it nonsensical. one of the things i have learned with this president is that you have to demonstrate that you have to do things because it's in his best interest. he's not interested in helping the party or anyone else. i think what he can appreciate is that he's hurting is our legacy by doing this. also the potential to hold the senate majority, which i think would hurt his legacy by doing this. there is no basis for this. time is running out and you will have state starting to certify results shortly. but i think what he is doing is very harmful. i'm from georgia, i'm looking at those senate races, those runoffs which will determine the outcome of the election. his message to voters, that your vote does not matter, elections are rigged, democrats are out to get you, that starting to seep

into voter psyche and it could hurt turn out and result in republicans staying home which could give democrats those two seats, giving them the senate majority. i think that's a terrible tng for his legacy and he should stopor his own best interest. host: we are talking about your challengede being and senator kelly loeffler. those are the two senate special elections, those runoff races are taking january 6. in oklahoma, a republican. go ahead. caller: i wanted to say i don't believe we have a national agenda and that we have not had a national agenda for many years. maybe immigration on this last election in the verbiage of that

, people need jobs why are we bringing people and can't we cut it off, that might have been important in this election. but prior to that, i think it s possibly balancing the budget. and trump did balance the budget at the expense of a lot of americans. but we need another national agenda. maybe these new gop women will get this country back on track incentive pandering to these minority votes. we have thought these fights over and over anthey keep coming up during elections and noing gets accomplished. i think people appreciate the fact that president trump actually did do some of the things he promised and he'just try to complete that nowith the troops. we did not go over to win those wars, we went over to be a presence and influence the world and vietnam was the same way. crazys is all kind of these things these ople say. they don't even understand what's going on. host: i'm good have brendan but

respond about -- buck respond about a national agenda. guest: i think what she's getting at is that there's not been a lot of things that pull us together for national unity to get something done. i think the covid crisis is going to do that. i think it has been for the past year. that's going to be the dominant story for the next six months in politics. both in responding in the public health situation across the country as cities and states are doing, but certainly in washington, trying to pass a new legislative passage -- package but also a new administration. we have a vaccine coming online, this could be a moment we are happy with because we are able to pull together but we have a long way to go. host: what are the vulnerabilities of kevin mccarthy as a leader? vulnerabilities?

his strength has always beehis ability to hold together his members, even when he s a relatively jr. member he understood politics better than anybody. now he's not necessarily -- if u want to contrast him maybe with my old boss, he's definitely less of a policy person. but to his credit he is much more of a policy person and that's why they worked well together. did not necessarily focus on the policy or the detail of the bill, he understood what motivated members. that is what's going to be helpful for him in the minority, taking back the house. it's largely politics. you are not writing bills or setting a policy agenda. you are driving policy and understanding what's good. and getting over that finish line of taking over the majority. i think he is well-positioned

because of his political acumen, but less on the policy agenda. host: can you give us an example our story that illustrates his political savviness? guest: early on they would call his office the clubhouse because there were always members there, they made it a hang out, and they thought that everybody joke, he has food in videogames. and he laughed at it, and it showed early on, he understood that politics is played in personal level. relationships drive getting things done. whether i'm looking at dash cam i was the freedom caucus that

was our problem. they were always shooting at us. kevin mccarthy has really neutralized that, and has been able to work together with an alliance with a freedom caucus because he worked so hard on those personal relationships and you always knew you could get kevin dunn because he had worked so hard on that. there were plenty of times when things have blown up, when we were in the speaker's office, particularly with the administration you needed somebody to deliver a message and it was always kevin, because he had developed such a good relationship in the white house with the president and a lot of his senior staff. host: did he ever push back on being the messenger? guest: he relished it. he loved the interplay between people. he craves conversation and is always talking to someone.

i worked with kevin from the lisle. one of the things that was most stunning to me, we were getting in an suv going to an event somewhere and he started calling reporters. i was his press guy, i was always taken aback by that. but he loves the interaction, he loves talking to people. he loves hearing what people are hearing and knowing where you ar from, your wife's name, your kid name, your dog, and really developing that connection. he's a people person and he always has been. he loves going in and being the one in the room to solve the problem. savannah,to georgia, maria, and independent -- an independent. could you please turn off your television? go ahead. caller: i have enjoyed the conversation that your guest is providing. this is the first time i have had some sort of idea of what's happening with the republican

party. the president can salvage his legacy if he can beat the >> in our electoral process he's going to be most sought-after surrogate in 2020 midterm people to come out. he really is the party at this point. the question is, what can he do with that? can he do, can he use that remarkable power that he has whether it's the power to

marshal voters, the power to get our attention. he controls what we talk about. he really has for the last four to five years never really figure out maybe joe biden is only one to figure out how to deal with that. problem w is he's never really been able to use it for good and what i mean by that, is most of the superpowers he has he uses for his own die as a rule -- he had h potential to do all things that no other president could do whether it's get a deal on daca dreamers on immigration, or get a deal on guns that no republican can probably do other than him. use those powers that he has to have people follow him no matter what policy he's for. or to use that remarkable power he has to get attention for himself and drive towards outcomes. towards towards policy goals not necessarily saying those are

only things to be focused on but he has ability to do all things that no other republican could andd if he focuses his energies and his following and his power to get attention on an agenda, it could be really powerful and something that he can run o in 2024. >> did your old boss speak or, paul ryan share tt opinion that he had superpors that he didn't use for good and did he try in his conversations with the president when he was in to convince him of that? >> i think he was in awe of the president's political powers. his ability to rile up voters his ability to almost move past policy. in a lot of ways last few years have been a post policy world where it is really weather you are with or gns president that defines and clouds everything and it was really hard to at first sort of grapple with that it is everything has to be looked at through the prism of where the president is on it.

idcertainly, one of his primary jobs for those two years was trying to help president be a better president.s and there was a lot of conversation and advice on thing he shouldn't do or say and approaches he should take. i'm well aware that he's just one of many voices as president who was hearing. but it was definitely his goal from the outset of those two years to try to help him be a better president. you know how successful we are i think that's hd to judge but he talked to him quite regularly. certainly i think nor early on than towards the end that is close at the end of that turn i know that president still has some issues with the former speaker. but he certainly tried to help talk to hill a lot tried to give him a lot of advice about using his mega phone to advance things in a positive way. >> their relationship publicly seem strange the president was

critical of him. what impact s did that have personally on paul ryan? >> he's a pretty resilient guy i don't know that it impacted hem too much. he understood and this is part of the job. and he knew that this is a very -- , obviously, unique president somebody who came into it without a lot of experience. he saw his role early on a lot in educating hem. you know here's how this works. in term of congress, legislating here's the steps we need to take think back to health care was one of the top priorities explaining that if we're going to do health care we need to do it through the budget reck reconcile process and there was strain in the relationship it came over period of time largely around i think the issue of immigration. obviously the president wanted money to build a wall in a way that was really hard to do.

that just weren't votes for that in reality. we tried to get what we could here and there. and you know, it took a lot of bites at the apple i think that probably tired his patience a little bit so i think there's one issue maybe it was that. that strained it. i don't know what really motivates the president's that he may have towards the former speaker. i know paul is fine and happy with, you know, with how it worked out on his end. so i don't have ton of insight into what the president is thinking. but you know, he did as i said really try to help him to the extent that he could. >> did the formaller speaker support the reelection of president trump? >> i actually hav not asked him thatuestion. i don't know who he voted for so you'll why so invite him on to know who he voted for. >> we'll go denise who is in washington democrat caller you're next. >> hi. first i would like to thk you

c-span because i've learned a lot about government and how it works by watching people debate on the floor of the senate and the house. and i kind of understand my government a little bit betr. i'm not pleased with either side or down the middle. because it's not bn about we the people. it's been about one man and his goals. and personally, i think i extremely happy with him being gone come january 20th. because i think heill take matts in hand i think he's been working kind of before his time. and i'm speaking, of course, of these 46 president. and his vice president whi women should have been involved up at that level long ago. but it's a man's world. and in a man's world it is not

easy and i donald trump's world, it' really askew because he sees it one way and then everybody else gets to go down the highway he canare less about amecans or america because he's done nothing except killeople since day one. >> okay i'll leave it there can i ask youing the psident's decision to draw down troops in iraq and afghanistan. you've seen mixed reaction on capitol hill from lawmakers in both parties. do you think that there would be support on capitol hill to pass some sort of resolution disagrees with the president if it came to either the house or the senate? >> you know i think there might be. obviously, one of the narratives of this presidency has been republicans general willingness to go along with the policy decision the president makes. i think foreign policy is actually one area where that has not been true at all. whether it's this decision where you've seen a lot of republicans

and some of the closest republicans criticizing or the decision on syria withdraw same story. this is an issue area where republicans have been pretty consistent in opposing the president's isolationist policies. it is so -- so i think engrained in who republicans are and i don't know that it really resonates too much with voters and so maybe it gives them space to be one issue but for whatever reason republican have been clear there are consequence to doing this and i think there may be room for some type of resolution pushback i don't know how much tools they have to change the policy and certainly new administration coming in could change it. but yeah, i think that republicans have been pretty vocal in opposing it and that's not necessarily unique when it comes to national security issues they've been doing that quite a bit. >> buck serve as press secretary

to speaker john boehner as counselor to speak or paul ryan he's now a partner at 7 letter a public relation term. thank you very much for the conversation. >> my pleasure, thank you. ening joining us now visiting professor at the university of california washington center. but he's also the former chief of staff to then congresswoman nancy pelosi served in 2005 to 2013 and now, of course, speaker of the house. when did you begin your time with the speaker when did you end and describe your relationship with her. >> i was on the hill from 1975 until 2013 and the last eight years from 2005 to 2013 i was the speakers chief of staff. before that i had held a number of different positions with another member andnd with two committees. you know, being the chief of staff to the speaker is very much like drinking out of a fire hose every day. we had two years under president

bush speaker two years under obama so during that time we covered everything from the financial collapse to the passage of health care and stimulus and the aftereffects of the financial melt down and then last two years we had lost the majority again and so we were in the minority. so it was quite a -- quit a diverse and high pressure ride that i always describe as just drinking out of a fire hose every day. [laughter]r] >> i want to the show our view wheres the speaker had to say la friday when she was asked about the election results. >>le we had a very deep victory two years ago. i don't think that people are quite understanding of the 40 seats that we won, 31 were in

trump's districts. he wasn't on the ballot and right away we said he's going to be on the ballot that's a steeper climb in these districts. and with the actions that requester takente we've saved mt of those seats. so we're very proud of that. we nower have a president of our party in the white house joe biden. wewe have a majority in the houe all be it smaller but none less of a -- a majority. 132 gavel chair of committees sub committees and the rest. the beautiful diversity of our caucus and we see it as a tremendous opportunity as we go forward because we have to address the fact is that president trump to his credit turninged out a big vote and in some of these districts, which were people wondered how we won them before they were so trump now with him on ballot bringing

a bigger vote. but we're getting are already fr next time and number of our candidates will run again i won't make any announcements but a number of them have told me they're ready they love being in congress as they were proud to have won. they wereth proud of the campain that they made. >> speaker before the election, but that she the democratic party wouldick up seats they ended up losing seats. why do you think that happened? >> i think it's a speaker said you have to look at that 2020 outcome which was disappointing for democrats i think both in materials of the house and senate in context of what happened h previously. following w the 2010 reapportionment democrats were disadvantage significantly in ar lot of states democrats did not ndo well when drew the boundary due to legislature and as a

result republican were able to maintain a majority for most of the subsequent decade. in 2018 the public reaction was very strong against president trump democrats keam out in large numbers in particularly we saw a lot of vote switching among suburban women, and democrats were able to win as the speaker pointed out in 31 seats at president trump had trump had carried by just two years earlier. biden by the nature of these offyear elections a offyear electorate smaller electorate and very often a -- a assess m of the first two years of the presidential term, but democrats were tiebl able to pick up a significant number of seats in the swing districts will aren't that many anymore in 2020 they lost a small number of those districts in a historically largest election turnout that in the history of the united states. so i don't have any question

that the speaker and democrats in general would have liked to have won and both retain those seats and picked up additional seat. but the t fact of the matter is there aren't that many swing seats anymore in the congress and fact that so many were picked up in 2018 i think by definition that many of them were vulnerable and in 2020, and unfortunately for democrats that meant that their margins shrunk and it will be a democratic majority but a smaller one. i would point out that in the house ofon representatives in particular, the majority is important pelosi says you don't have 118 votes you're just having a conversation in this case it means that democrat will elect speaker but also control committees elect chairs and establish the agenda for the house of representatives. so even though it is a narrow margin that will be difficult when you get down to vote, because the in democrats are factioning party, for organizational and operational purposes, the democrats remain

in the majority and that was the primary goal. >> don lawrence speaker planation and yr explanation right now was all known before the election. about the meup of these districts. so i'm wondering what was it because abigail sand burger says this on 2020 house election she's a moderate democrat we want to talkbout funding social service and ensuring good engagement and community policing. let's lk about what we are for. and wee need to not ever use the words socialist or socialism ever again. becausehile people think it doesn't matter, it does matter and we lost good members because of it. i don't think there's any question and in all livelihood some of the drcts that democrat lost using word socialism is probably not the -- prime idea for messaging. but i just point out that it not that socialism was the -- message or frim that democratic

party decided to use in 2020, there were a handful of people in the democratic caucus who talk about democratic socialism on socialism policies and republicans i think were fairly effective at using those words to suggest that that was the overall objective of democrats in general. but, of course, it wasn't, and i think both the president, president-elect biden, and other democratic candidates were very clear thatde that small group of people within the party who were using that language did not speak for them and did not speak for the agenda of the party but you can't control what other people say. the one thing i know from 40 yearse in house politics is that -- these elections are won and lost at the district level and you haveon to look to die signal nik specific district. i appreciate it san burger she

understands herer district. i don't know that she knows the details of what happened in each of those other districts or what variable or what message it was that led to those seats. but i would just point out that -- the nature of those districts was very, very ten in an election year with a extremely large turnout not surprising that you would lose reallyri a handful out of the 31 seats. the democrats are going to have to work very hard on their messaging. because there is an ideological diversity within the party, and what works in one district does not going to work in every district. i worked on nationalizing house races and house messages it is a very tricky thing to do. but you do have to remember that that -- that message of socialism and the far left and all, that was pushed by hundreds of millions of dollars of republican messaging. there wasn't a dime of democratic money or democratic effort that was meant to promote that message in any congressional district. >> we wanto invite our viewers

to join in on the confers what you think the november 3rd election mn and democratic agenda our guest don lawrence former chevref staff speak ofhe house nancy pelosi visiting professor at the university of california, washington center and also written a book the class of '74 congress after water gate root of partisanship written in march of 2018. john lawrence what's your advice if you were still chief of staff to speaker of the house about how she governs over next two years because her opposition her opponent, the -- >> go live now to canton, georgia where vice president mike pence will be speaking at a rally for both of the states republican senators david perdue and kelly loeffler in a runoff election in january. >> rejected the democratic leaning towards socialism in had election. thank you for that. [applause] but today we're the last line