monthly in the "in depth" program with eddie glaude. his books include democracy in black: how race still enslaves the american sl, and the recently-published "begin again." .. what is the comparison you are making? >> guest: in each of those moments was opportunity for the nation to imagine itself otherwise where the country had an opportunity to leave behind the reality of white supremacy

and each of those moments the country double down on its ugliness and we saw what some scholars call a backlash. that is to deal arise. what we saw instead was an ongoing betrayal. when we think about the post reconstruction period and the lost cause and the ideology of anglo-saxon is in and what it meant for the united states and the world that moment of betrayal, think of the mid-twentieth century, the black freedom movement, calls for law and order, the tax revolt in california, the hardhat rebellion, we doubled down on our ugliness and here we are in this moment again facing a chance to re-examine ourselves that if our history is any indication. >> host: has there been an arc of progress?

>> of course. my life is not what my father's was in his life was not his father's was. what does it mean to suggest that we live in the afterlife of slavery or the afterlife of jim crow? it is to suggest there has been some indication of change and progress but america is always changing but it never changes and one way to parse that is the truth of american history, the belief that white people matter more than others and th obtains no matter the conditions, still organizes and distributes the advantage and disadvantage in society. >> host: what should we know about james baldwin or as you know him, jim?

>> host: it is hubris of me to call him jimmy but he's walked in my heador almost 30 years. what should we know? there are couple things. one is he is an extraordinary example of self creation. when you think about harlem not in sugar hill but in the ghettos, cing-of-age in the aftermath of the catastrophe of the depression and willing himself to become one of the world's greatest writers is extraordinary. when we step outside the orbit of america acts expectation of ourselves we are talking he embodies that. the second thing is courage. his willingness to not only speak truth to power, to bear witness in such a way to make something real which is an example but it is courage to

risk self-examination in publ, to risk vulnerability. i interviewed angela davis for "begin again: james baldwin's america and its urgent lessons for our own," he is by himself, writing a book about love in the 1915s, embracing even though he is critical of black power continuing to bring critique to bear on american society, the age of the cosby show, his courage is something we should take from it but also his commitment to class. all of those things come to mind. >> host: what is the importance of his self exiled from the us? >> guest: he called himself a transatlantic commuter moving back and forth. on one level, hard to live in

this place and i can imagine it is particularly hard for him. the daily experiences of disregard and the need to say something substantive about it. one way i render it is not so much exile as seeking it elsewhere, a kind of stage that gives him the requisite distance to understand the complexity of the american ideology. when you are caught up in it is difficult to say and act in such a way that allows you the elbowroom to bring serious criticism so i think baldwin needed that distance. some of us can't afford to

leave the country, we establish relevant distance from the operations of power that we say some significant serious about devastating consequences if that makes sense. >> i thought about the ugliness that consumes my country i asked myself, what do you do when you lose faith in the place you call hom that wasn't the right way to put it. i never had faith in the united states and the strongest sense of the word. what do you me by that queue >> i'm not a patriot. i have never been a patriot in any way. not sure what that word means. i always had the uneasy relationship to this place, had something to do with the tradition out of which i come, understanding black people in america, a particular angle with regard to america's self

understanding but at the same time there is this aspiration that animates the black tradition. aspiration for a more democratic way of life, a way of being together in this country so what happens? not one's faith in america as an idea, the possibility that this country would ever -- when you see that kind of rage or passion. joining deep-seated doubt. any kind of faith and struggle for democratic possibilities. i never felt at home in this place.

in one's house, that is the metamorphosis, come to the realization maybe one is being perceiveas a ghastly thug. >> host: when you think about w e b du bois, malcolm x, where do you place yourself? >> guest: i have never been asked that question. somewhere, it is always on the verge of spilling over. i am attracted to baldwin as a

figure in that space where rage and love - there is this, where i stand is not so much that black integration, black radical positions are, to render african-american politics. i'm not a liberal of course but the sense, to be courageous. i hope to have a level heart. >> host: in your 2016 book "democracy in black: how race still enslaves the american

soul" you wrote obama was supposed to be different, we should have known better. it confirmed the belief he was some progressive savior. he is what he has always been. >> guest: i was trying to say, from the 2007-2008 election cycle. we made him the antiwar candidate. we made him this avatar of progressive politics. a range of grassroots movement, in black lives matter in its early stages or occupy wall street, there was a sense that barack obama became in some

ways the object, we displace hopes and aspirations on him. he told us in his second book who he was, exactly what he would do, he was very explicit he was in some ways a liberal in - the vein of the clintons. more than just a symbol. i remember my reaction, this could happen and what it might mean. thats how he governs. host: what was the point of maas poi, mississippi? >> guest: i found myself when i first ft home to go to college trying to run away from it.

ying to imagine myself in more expansive terms than my little hometown. maas point is everything, the smell, theaper mill, how it all - every friday, we would eat seafood on friday. listening tohe brews every weekend as we clean house, on the radio. being ab to ride my bike and play baseball. the gulf coast, falls in us of the air, the seafood, finds its way on the page, the way in

which i ar words and think, took a while to come to terms with that but i am a maas point baby. >> host: you talk about, quote, running away at 16 to go to college. >> guest: my dad is watching. i love him daily but he was an exacting presence in some ways. i look just like him. i felt like i needed to get away in order to survive. my dad couldn't scare you with

the glare. i needed to get away. he understood in his own way. i asked him can i go to college, i needed to get his permission. we were sitting at the kitchen table. i know what you are doing, don't ever think you won't need me and low and behold i lost my scholarship in my sophomore year and without question took second mortgage on the house to pay for my college. like jimmy jimmy is very difficult. by the time we get closer to his death, he is more generous.

>> host: do you think your parents share your philosophical leanings. >> on msnbc at is hilarious. intuitively how i see the world-shaped by that household, this insistence on maintaining one's dignity, we don't suffer white folks easily. they tell the story when we bought our home in briarwood, the police drove by their cruiser and my dad handed the

ys and - on neighbor decided to d up the flowers given to the previous owner and my father asked what are you ing? the neighbor in the back of our home or someone shot out the back of the window, the on the magnolia tree, i learned a lesson to otect dignity and spending at all costs, stand up for that. even though i felt skated at times, my dad instilled in me

insistence on being courageous. >> has maas point changed? >> at one point i find this funny, we - high school was friday, produced allhe amazing football players, as a young high school student, our nose guard, generation after generation of running backs who made their way to the nfl, it is a smaller school, the town, folks have grown, a lot of folks grew up the diaspora as it was but can'tfford to play, the best seafood on the

planet. >> host: eddie glaude got his masters from temple university and the d in religion from princeton. ree of your books are about religion. why? >> guest: when i leftemple, i went to princeton's work with cornell west, did my phd in relation, always been interested in politics, we had a subfield of religion ethics anpolitics. and always thought about religion is int of entry to the broader questi of african-american politics.

what is important abt those two figures is cornell west, philophers of the mission and american religious htorian i found myself bridging these, where i want to think philosophical questions historically. i wanted to think about politics with historical contextualization. religion became my point of interest, the first was about the exodus story and how it is used a deployed by nineteenth century - very short inoduction on uncommon faith. these are short small books that try to give some indication of historic seibility.

how i think about african-american religion, from historical perspective. has everything to do with the tradition out of which i come, african-american protestantism, significant to understanding african-american life in this couny. >> is christianity still imrtant to you personally? >> sure. i was born and raised on the coast. i grew up in the archives of biloxi. i went to st. peter's apostolic church. i grew up in the joseph i tradition. by leaving this all black

church, pari, for the most ardent going to morehouse and being drenched in baptist watersand trying to find my own way, my own religious belief, islam for a moment and came to understand the stories is animate christian tradition, as a human being, the stories offer wisdom and insight to what it means to show intends to be loveless. >> host: in exodus you identify yourself as john dewey pragmatists. who was on do we and what do

you mean by pragmatists? >> guest: john dewey was one of the towering philosophical voices for me of the twentieth century. a classical group of pragmatists, who in some ways put forward a philosophical, that has us not be so attentive to metaphysical truths or foundations but understanding the capacity of human beings to transform the circumstances, and he foundationalism, a big historical sensibility for ordinary people and determining their chances. i was attracted to him philosophically.

still had the legacy of the later pragmatists, pragmatism shapes the way, appoints cornell west, i happen to be a graduate student when working on that manuscript and john dewey was attracted to me precisely because he was critical, of the philosophical tradition. for ordinary people to transform their circumstances setting the stage that is philosophical. to bring american pragmatists across the railroad tracks to bring the philosophical tradition into conversation

with african-american tradition, it -- >> host: his body of work is what we were discussing, eddie glaude. we want to include the conversation as well. 2000, "exodus!: religion, race, and nation in early nineteenth century black america" came out. "in a shade of blue: pragmatism and the politics of black america" came out in 2007. "african american religion: a very short introduction" in 2014, "democracy in black: how race still enslaves the american soul" in 2016, and in 18 and uncommon faith andhe most recent book "begin again: james bawin's america and its urgent lessons for our own". it is brand-new this year.

here's how you can participate, you can do it by phone 202 is the area code, 748-8200, in the east and ctral time zone for eddie glaude. 202-748-8201 in the mountain at pacific time zone. you can participate via social media. number one our text line 202-748-8903. please include your first name and city if you would and on our social media sites on booktv, facebook, twitter, instagram, you can post a comment therend look at those as well. you catake those comments in just a minute. eddie glaude is chr of his affirmative african american studies at princeton. at is the importance of having a separate african-american studies program at a university.

>> guest: african-american studies, a conversation was had, you have different bibliographies, shape a body of knowledge from one to the next. when i think about these studies i think about a field that in some way that engages in a description enterprise, the relevant subject at hand. and and a critical component, to change the orientation to knowledge production, the criticism to bear on the ways

in which to think about matters or what would we take to be knowledge and it is important in a world as diverse as ours, in a country is complicated as ours, it might occur, to understand the fragile experiment in democracy from the vantage point to bear the brunt of its contradiction. the expensive - and extraordinary literature. and to think about art and life. and knowledge of war and function.

in the last couple years. where do you come down on those. that is where it couldn't suffer. a place that edward tie you hesitated in some ways. the face of baldwin on route one. and tells the story of not being served, hurling a glass at the end of this region and run fohis life. princeton, woodrow wilson, the reason paul couldn't go to princeton. my mother couldn't have attended princeton so it ha

its story, it is always grappling with that. students w protested in terms, thosetudents who take over the president's office trying to make princeton their own to insist that princeton, resisted doing them a favor, to imagine itself as a pla, and that aspiration that is necessary. we are grappling with that. >> host: west college was

renamed the toni morrison building, is that correct? >> guest: one of the things about the current moment, the built-in environment of america reflects its racist commitment. it announces, the hallowed halls of latecomers or the repients, you don't see an environment that reflects the diversity of the populatn, the idea of west college where students, parents comewhere the dean of the college is, named after toni morrison, an traordinary moment, to change what you see. can you imagine black students and brown students to see woodrow wilson's faith and

credit quotation, every day wilson, the view about capacity. and navigate that every single day. and >> how ithat going to work? >> truthfully. then you tell the truth. woodrow wilson is central. and what he did. you have to tell the truth about what he is. >> host: i remember my graduate

school days woodrow wilson, stories about wking on water occurs. you tell the truth and understand the values you want to represent, who you aspire to be and askourself a hard question, does woodrow wilson represent who we are? he is central to how we became princeton, it is not the princen i work on. sometimes. i think at the heart of it the school is trying to tell the truth about woodrow wilson. >> host: totally off the subject, i can't get it out, eddie glaude senior's line of work. >> guest: he delivered mail in

mississippi, over 30 years, i remember him fixing the same lunch every day on white bread. every day. didn't take one single vacation and spread them out over the years, each week he would have a day off and the day he would have would give him a long week because that means we would have to clean out the house from top to bottom but he was a postman. during the heat of mississippi on the coast, it is an extraordinary thing to experience even with the breeze off the golf. he would literally sweat it out in some ways.

he was the second afcan-americanired at the post office. >> host: tell us ickly about your mother as well. >> guest: my mom is amazing. she worked from my early days at burger king, then she is part -- became a supervisor of the plane crew. she worked the third shift, she left home at 4:00 in the afternoon to go work at 2:00 in the morning. those work shifts, my older sister is severely handicapped. they said toy mother and

ther that she would not live past 8 years old and rently turned 67. my mother, father and karen, older sister, it is amazing. >> host: are they still in the house? >> guest: absolutely. my brother remembers the old house on the east side, all the folks at home, my grandfather gave my father the land, in briarwood i started, picking out carpet. >> host: i hope they are watching. let's hear from our viewers.

neville in cleveland, first up with professor eddie glaude junior. >> guest: are there any themes or aspects of african-american history which have been ignored or do not get the attention they deserve from historians, a final question, when you write african-american history, who do you consider you to be your audience? >> guest: thank you for those two questions. when we think about african-american history, it is in some ways a response to the

willful ignorance of mainstream american historians. when i think about what tara hunter has written about in this extraordinary book, the books are real, extraordinary bookyou can go ahead -- >> host: hold that up if you want to show it to viewers. >> guest: this extraordinary book which gives us a different look at black marriage in the importance of marriage in black communities and the historical narrative about its significance and what ens up this kind of political discourse about single parents, and expansive archive, someone like tara hunt, this

particular tradition, this extraordinary book entitled race for profi banks and real estate industry undermine black homeownership to give us a different story about race and real estate, not just talking about raci exclusion, but a ki of predatory in collusion, the way in which a certain kind of approach to homeownership allowed for racist extraction. what this approach brings into view, without their work, if historians wouldake it up the same way. in terms of the second question

reminds me of the second estion. >> host: i apologize if i am paraphrasing it wrong. teaching african-american history. >> guest: yeah. >> host: let's move on. i apologize that i didn't write it down. won't do that again. debbie in philadelphia. >> caller: eddie glaude eddie glaude eddie glaude. i think our souls are key in. you are so profound, so deliberate. still watching you a while. is it tallahassee coats?

you are along the line to me as well. let me have some idea how you feel about the scam that is going on around the black lives matter vision now and the scam of the defund the police, how they are trying to set the narrative. how is your son? i remember when he wanted to protest the george floyd situation. >> host: when you say the scam about defund the police, what do you mean? debbie she is gone. sorry about that, professor. >> guest: i think i have an idea what she means.

first of all, let me thank you for the kind words, asking about my son. he's thriving, out in cafornia, working for the public defender service, left to be a public defender, and he is happy. the way black lives matter ing scapegoated as the reason democrats lost rtain seats, conservative centrist democrats and conservative districts against the wall. this is the reason, we heard president obama refer to it as a snappy sgan that in some ways was antithetical to efforts to reach across,

convince others to join efforts. this is all part o an old frame we need to reject. we don't want to think of it as a slogan but as a policy initiative that has everything to do with certain cla, what does it mean for municipalities to spend 70% of their budgets on policing and the mechanics of the car several state. we had to add face of these sorts of judgments. what folks are trying to do is force us to debate on the terms of the old frame defined by law and order. we talk aboua fundamental

transform nation, we need to change the frame to move law and order to safety and security. every human being deserves to be safe, every community deserves to be sece. what does that mean in detail? it has everything to do with insting in education. walter wallace in philadelphia. called 911, because her baby was having a mental episode in a mental crisis. instead of health workers showing up the police owed up and now she has to bury her baby. when we think about defund e police, that is the kind of crystallization right there of the argumentut instead what we are hearing our folks trying to pull us back into the old frame and we have to resist that at all costs. >> host: debbie referred to tallahassee coats. the fact that he spent some time living in paris, should we

take anything significant from that? >> guest: that was a wonderful allusion to jimmy in between the world and me. there was this moment he was trying to show the parallel and the requisite distance, had a different political veiled but we can talk about that some other time. what baldwin was trying to call forward, baldwin didn't trade the american part for a french one. i love that line. he starts talking about algeria and how the french started to treat the algerians. we don't want to trade one for another. it was obtained in this place and across the globe and we

need to be mindful of it. and undermine the chances of people across the globe. >> host: a text message, your first name and city when it comes in. the text message is please a claim the relationship between richard wright and james baldn. >> guest: it is a colicated one. baldwin would not be baldwin if it wasn't for richard wright. right dn't make it through high school. i can't imagine the creative geniushat evidenced it self that he willed himself t become a writer given the contt of his formation. richard wright when baldwin could barely find resources to put food in his mouth helped

him find a fellowship, he basically turned the globe and randomly chose paris, not true, along with vibrant community. in the so many raise, what kind of father figure, baldn had to engage, that is what he seemed to thinkn a kind of patricide, when you read alas poor richardyou can feel this complicated indebtedness. there is a sense kellye disagreed aesthetically with richardright but we can never say baldwin is possible without richard wrht. that is how i would describe that.

>> host: a text from angela. i reside on the gulf coa, mobile, alabama. how has the pandemic affected your classroom and canse and optimize the lectures and assigned reading for this week assuming class is in session? >> host: i taught a course with professor perry entitled african-american studies and philosophy of race. we ended our semester by reading an extraordinary novel written by someone from the gulf coast and we were delighted he attended our class. what it is it like teaching context of covid-19? we had 80 students in our class and we can see all of them at once. you can't read their body

language, the performance aspect of lecturing gets lost as mediated by this medium as it were. i thought it was successful but you could see the weariness, could see that some of them struggling, the conditions under which they happen to write, their families, some of them are struggling with covid-19. it has been hard but students are making their way through and i met most of them in order to get back home. >> host: loretta is in cleveland, go ahead. >> caller: high. we have been asking can we imagine america, that is a tall

order, wondering how do blacks pursue happiness and liberty without the vote? there's been a lot of voter suppression going on and what would you suggest to rid america of institutional racism and white supremacy and your response off the air, thank you. >> guest: a big question. our sense of well-being art not to be bound up with political reality. to rephrase the question might not be about our happiness but

how can we flourish as a community when we have active forces trying to suppress our voice? i said black folks are damned if you do damned if you don't. the nation and of choosing someone like donald trump if we don't vote in high numbers and when we do vote they want to throw our votes out. the thing we have to recognize is our power as american citizens, to transform the country by way of our political engagement, not just being herded to the polls every 2 or 3 years but the power of our political organizing. that is the first thing. how do we transform the country? we have to tell the truth about

the country. america is so willfully ignorant and it is willfully ignorant because it wants to protect its innocence as baldwin said. it doesn't want to admit that it is not the shining city on the hill. it doesn't want to admit it is not an example of democracy achieved, when we talk about the wealth gap it is not a result of black people not being frugal or their inability to save but everything to do with policy decisions that at the very moment the middle class was created, was blocked out. people who risk to their lives in world war ii, cut off the g.i. bill. we can think about the ways housing emerged in this country. going back to this wonderful book, how black folks were cut out of that. think about the dual labor

market, particular segments of the economy. the reality of racial inequality is not the result of a character flaw on the part of black folks but the result of policy. truth and reconciliation is sequential. first you got to tell the truth in order to reconcile. if we are going to rid ourselves of white supremacy we are going to have to confront our ghastly failures. in 1962 he put it more existentially. the trouble is deeper than we wish to think because the trouble isn't us. to tell the truth we have to confront the ugliness of who we are if that makes sense. >> host: a quote from "begin again: james baldwin's america and its urgent lessons for our own," black people have to bear the burden of compromise while white people go on with their lives.

>> guest: i remember when i wrote that sentence i was really angry when i wrote that sentence and it is important. i appreciate you pulling it out at this moment. a wonderful book written by c vann woodward entitled the strange career of jim crow. woodward writes in that book and i am paraphrasing, black folks gained their rights to a falling out and they stood to lose their right through reconciliation, talking about the civil war which brought the passage of the reconstruction amendments, the end of slavery and the reconciliation leads to

the lost cause, in 1877, doubling down and have to bear the brunt. when you talk about compromise whether we are going to have a society predicated on the belief that white people matter more than others we bear the brunt of it. i don't want my son if he ever has children, i don't want his children to go through what he had to go through, to go through what my mother and father have gone through. we bear the brunt of our attempts to reconcile the voters we believe we elected. what do the trump voter want? what do they want? what are they lamenting? why don't we begin to delve more deeply into the world that they desire and ask ourselves honestly do we want to

compromise with that? that is what i was trying to get at at this moment. >> host: eddie glaude, 72 million americans voted for donald trump's reelection. do you have a general thought about those 72 million americans? >> guest: i do. the obvious thing is a large number of americans cling to the idea that america must remain a white nation in the vein of old europe, that donald trump's shenanigans, we don't want to separate trump from the republican party, these folks believe the demographic shifts in the country fundamentally undermine any sense of america that they are willing to be committed to. i also think there are other elements. only that some folks are racist.

i think there is an epidemic of selfishness and greed in the country that you have some people who could care less whether you are black, brown or yellow, they are invested in their stock portfolio, their 401(k)s, the value in their homes, their jobs, they are selfish, they have given up any stake in america outside of their own set of concerns. when you have racism, greed, political class that is beholden to not only wall street but others like them who are simply about extracting, extracting, then you have folks who believe we are all self-interested and only out to

pursue our own ends and don't have a robust conception of public good, you have these three elements at work the republic is in danger. democracy itself is in danger. i think of those 72, 73 million folks who voted for donald trump i am thinking how racism, how selfishness and greed is threatening the very foundations of american democracy itself. also the difficult task that awaits us and the biden and harris administration. >> host: eric is in our bring, washington. you are on with princeton professor eddie glaude. >> caller: thank you. it is an honor and privilege to speak to you. and the constitution and the

bible, and the worst atrocity ever committed have been committed in the name of religion. i am glad trump was elected president because he exposed the racist white manifesto that can be interpreted to mean anything such has can he pardon himself. this is a question i would like legal officers to ask him if he can pardon himself can he transfer dollars from the treasury, pardon himself, killed joe biden and pardon himself? it makes no sense. >> host: we are going to leave it, we have a lot of collars on the line, thanks for going ahead, go ahea >> guest: think eric is outraged, reflect this idea that trump believes he is above

the law, that he's not accountable the law. you have some who hold the view ofhe president, we call it an imperial presidency, that exists outside the framework o the law. we heard from the mouth of william barr and others argument in defense of that view of e executive. i want to be clear, this is nothing to be glad about when we have to hundred and 74 or 5000 dead because of trump's incompetence. when we think of the devastion to the planet, the devastation to communities, i don't believe that evil is ministerial. i don't believe in that idea. i want to be clear about the

critique of how these documents, this dogma, can be lded to fit an ideological end. human beings are complex creatures and we need to understand that. there is nothing gd that has come out of the last four years. .. even the acknowledgmt that the country is broken, i still don't want to s that as a good that comes out of last four years. >> host: professor glaude we have read quotes from the last two books, again begin and democracy in black, but u.s. presidents. did we spend too much time thinking about reflecting, identifying, with our political leaders? >> guest: i think so. i think that's such a great question. >> you know, i think so. i think that's a great question. one of my political

ilphilosophical figures, ella baker, many of the naacp chapters in the south. at one point executive secretary in southern leadership conference and, of course, she went ontoo up space to allow for the formation of the student nonviolent coordinating committee and ms. baker had a radical democratic politics, dmake relevant decisions that would impact their lives and how they are governed to have a say so and the way they worked to make a living, soft a say so in the fabric of the society.

oftentimes, we want to outsource the responsibility to others. i think short answer to your question, we focus too much on leaders and in doing so we absolve ourselves of the responsibility their democracies require of the >> pauls in johnstown, pennsylvania. if you could immediate james baldwin, what would you ask him? >> oh, my god. if i could meet jimmy, what could i ask him? so many questions that just came flooding through, right? -well, there's a selfish questin about just the writing. we would have to have a conversation about craft. how do you get the ideas on your head in the page.

to get to the page and write and ecraft stories, how do you do that and that's a selfish question? another question, you know, vulnerable queer black man or gay black man, seen -- when jimmy would walk from the stage from speaking, he would literally be shaking. he didn't understand, he didn't know how he survived it all. when baldwin is vulnerable fragile, courageous, you you know. i've been trying to prove to myself that i'm courageous since oui was a little bit.

i would have to talk with them about that in relion if that make sense. >> what do you mean you've been trying to prove yourself? >> so i mentioned, you know, th is awkward because i know my dad is watching. i mentioned that my dad could scare you with a stare. and he deposited in me early a kind of fr that resided in the gut. and i've been trying to prove to myself that i'm not afraid and t.i'm being hones in this momen, right. and i think baldw helped me do this because i remember being stuck in the wting. i just picked up jimmy and started reading and before you could say anything about the country, you have to deal with

you, deal with the fact that you're this vulnerable littl boy. i think, you know, and then the line came out, it jumped out at me. when you're afraidou don't run away from the fear, you run toward it. and so i think, you know, graping with who i am and all of o that complexity, freed me p to wri the sentences that you're reading. yeah, yeah, that's what i mean. >> text message that is gladis, what wou baldwin say in thisha moment in time and they are from canden, arkansas. >> something that you know? >> yeah, it's my neighbor. that's really beautiful.

there were 7,000 pages of work. you know, i don't want to suggest what he might say. what i know to be true is that, you know, we have to tell the truth b about who we are and abt what we've done in order to release ourselves into a different way ofnt being into te world. you know, i remember as i was trying to write the book and i can just remember this in 2016 and i kept saying to myself, damn, they've done it again. look at this. these folks had done it again. right. and trying to figure out how to bear witness to what that meant in its detail and so part of the work that we have to do i think in this moment that you and i must do, right, is to detail the

choice and its consequences, to not gloss over what we are seeing, to name the hatred to what it is, to name the selfishness for what it is, right, to really not allow americare to retreat into its illusions and its comfort, right? t that's what we would have to do, what that would look like would look different whether you're arguing around a living wage or you're arguing for medicare for all or your pushing for an education system that's fair and just and pushing for criminal justice reform, whatever we might meanht by that phrase, right? we have to tell the truth about what we have done. that's the precondition for being released into being otherwise. that to me is basic baldwin insight that i take from the

ruins as he described this one. >> sheila peyton is our new heroin and emails about cleveland and the second question whenn dr. galude writes ta book, who is the audience hs writing to? >> thank you, thank you for that. we can lift each other up. that's wderful. so the audience. it vary. so the early books, the audience, very narrow, right, so when when you read exodus or shade of blue or african-american religious thought, academi community. the arc of those books, though, is toward a broader community. in a shade of blue, for example, was written while was on tour

with tavis miley and the old statete of the black unit gathering that we used to have or c-span use to air, but, you know, one audienc narrow professial concern, right? the other audience is my momma, sgh i remember when i fir published exodus she said i couldn't get past chapter 3 or something like that. you know, so the idea is to write with a level of clarity that allows her to access the ideas and to wrap, to be able to engage with what i'm doing, right? so, you know, always tell folk, m my momma is the center f my moralravity. so whatever i feel like i'm moving off center, i tnk about

her and i can recalibrate. i can get back straight, you know, i'm a momma's boy in some ways. so she is the kind of generalized audience that at the end of t day i'm tryingo write the book as tony morrison would sayhat i want to read. i'm writing for me too if that makes sense. that's 3 different -- thankou for reminding us of that question. thank you. >> norma i in littleton, colorado andou're on with princeton professor glaude. >> i was wondering if mr. glaude owas aware of statement six wes after obama took office because it's so upsetting. mitch mcconnell said that the republican plan was to destroy the obama presidency, his exact

words, it gets burned into my brain and i thought it was treason and nobody said anything, it wasn't covered in the news or anything and the only thing i can think of is president obama heard it and tcouldn't believe that he couldn't find a way to work with the republicans and it's just been modified and said, oh, make him a one-term and so forth and he won't work with us. and then some years later i was channel surfing, there was a panel where a man said that on january 20th -- 29th during inauguration festivities for president obama, republicans including paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and other leaders hacked -- came up with that plan to destroy the obama presidency and it's amazing that he could do what he could do and that's

-- >> all right, norman, i think we got the point, eddie glaude, your point on that. >> we don't want to be naive and understand who mitch mcconnell is, a self-interested actor who has participated not only in my view the destruction of the liberty called the senate but he been a central force in eroding basic foundations of democracy. obama unleaed all sorts of anxiy. his election. people talked about the tea party being a result of economic anxiety, the social science data show that the economic anxiety is driven by deracial anxiety. we kno that -- that over the course of his 8 years inffice, the demographic shifts spike in

different sorts of ways and we sawhe intensity of the spread of white resentment andatred mobilize not only by the tea party but that resulted in the elecon of donald trump but so mobilized by the likes of mitch mcconnell. point of entry to uerstand thef depth of what some might call the backlash or the beindustria and mitch mcconnell's voicing in that moment, to destroy the obama presidency or t make ima one-term president announced very clearly a political and policy agenda that resulted in in part trumpism. this is -- we can't disentangle the two thathese are

intimately related. i appreciate your passion but -- not even but, i appreciate your understand, let's understandt for what itnt is. >> pastor willy dean, what's your take on the division of the church split between pardon me, split between democratic and republican camps, what do you see as the role of the church and its future? c >> fredrik douglas said the church is next to slavery block. african-american christianity comes intoo existence as the great herman put it, in part to redeem the religion and

understand white christianity and you can think about this, right, that race not only impacted the way one experiences convenience, the way in which one worships, you have what they call quote, unquote, pews where black people had to go. now we see that white evangelicalsou supported trump even with four years of incompetence and corruption and greed and so what i think we need is to give voice to a much more prophetic understanding of the gospel and this is why i always turn to bishop reverend barber of the poor people's utcampaign and what he's tryingo

put forward and that's an argument for more just america. so part of what the short answer to the question is that what we are seeing are the kind of historical divisions that have always been a part of the very dna of americans to make themselves known in our current moment and we just need to simply be honest. >> 202 is the area code. 202-74-8201 if you live in mountain and pacific time zones and you can send a text message to eddie glaude as well. if you do send a text, include your first name and your city. we've got about 45 minutes left with author eddie glaude. roy in washington, roy, you're on book tv. >> hello, dr. galude, a pleasure

to talk with you this morning, at least listen to you. my question relates to strategies and position papers and so on, you and other academics are very good explainers, what about your influence like naacp and civil rights groups, are they listening to you and are they ieforming strategies and are you giving them guidance so that they can do their work to better the african-american community at arch, it's questionable how well they've done it to date? >> thank you fork your question. i'mm not so sure that they need to listen to me. but i think there is -- there are moments of connection between what we do in the

academic world and what folks do in the policy world. the lines or the boundaries between the two worlds blur every now and then. you know, there's an america deep suspicion of -- of academics, you know, richard wrote a wonderful book entitled antiintellectualism. we are often characterized and the folks looked in the ivory tower and they sr. no sense on how it operates. there's efforts to reach across eethe boundaries. i know what i've been trying to do in my own work, is write for a broader audience to offer a frame. i'm not a policy guy. i tend to think it's moral or ethical terms. my task is how to put forward a set of values that may drive on how we think about policies, how

i might offer a description of the sunt set of problems, offer languages to describe those problems that would reorientate us and give us a different angle on the problems we face. short answer to the question is it's happening, it's uneven but it's happening. >> when i teach introduction to african-american at prince tone, -- princeton i begin with quote, what does that mean? >> it comes from the chapter on

the 3 races. now that i leave matters of democracy of behind i will turn. that's the paraphrase. the toquevilli. he in some way separates the issues. to my mind, race is at the heart of how we think about democracy in this country. this is what james jimmy baldwin so important to w me. i think he's perhaps the most insightful critic that we have about american democracy and race. he's inheriter and takes emerson across the tracks in some ways and offers us a different understanding as what we think as americans, part to get my students to see, when you're

taking african-americans class you're not ghettoizing the matterlo or locked in the silo f identity matters. we are thinking of the heart of the democratic part itself and more importantly this has to be empathized, when you take this class in this moment, right, you're gaining access to a particular vantage point of what it means to be human, whenr you're reading russian literature or irish literaturement i don't get the jokes in dead souls. i understand of something but it means being a human being in this world. you're in this class, by thinking about race in the way that we are doing, you're at the

heart of the matter. don't think it's just you feel good about yourself or pat yourself about your virtue, we are about to get busy. >> professor glaude wasn't james baldwin beingyp criticized becae he had affinity for being a white man? >> it's crazy. look, you love who you love. this is when he would say how he responded to folks as love affair. it's a book about love. you love who you love, right? when we allow these categories, right, to overdetermine the heart, to blind or to block one self off to the beauty of anotheruman being, you open

yourself to become asonstrous as the person we are fighting. i find that to be nonsense. >> ken santoro, if it is so per vasive, how -- pervasive, how do you explain the high achievement levels of asian americans, isn't the problem black culture not valuing strong nuclear families or the importance of education? >> this is wonderful to have the question because it becomes exhibit a of the problem. we have to deal with discourse that absolves the country of

guilt. the problem, can you imagine at the heart of the formulation is that the condition of black folk in the country is, in fact, result of their bad choices. in order for that to make sense, emperiacally that millions are making bad decisions every singleak day. that makes no sense. remember i just said earlier we have to tell the truth. we have to tell the truth about how the wealth gap happens and the way policies have generated deep racial inequality in the country. instead of whatea we find and hr in response is ideology of lost cause. formulation has its in some ways origins in the kinds of arguments used to defend the lost cause and interesting sorts ofst ways. how do i respond to that

argument? first of all, we have to say that it's nonsense, it's silly on a certain level and on the other hand we need to go to the impurecal evidence that they refuse to acknowledge. so no matter what we do, no matter what black folks do on our own, we will never close the gap, the achievement gap in terms of the divisions within education. it would impossible without direct policy intervention to close the wealth gap. this all result of policy. let's be very clear. you asked me about my parents. and my parents didn't grow up in slavery. they are not that old. look, the nation, the last piece of major legislation designed to address deep systematic racism in the great society, deeply

flawed inwe implementation. just 12 years later reagan was elected to undo it all. judy says that america didn't dcome democracy till 1965. i was born in 1968. my parents came of age in a country designed to reproduce advantage for white folks and disadvantage for those who were not. and to deny it is to become complicit in that. that's not to say that black folks are absolved of responsibility. that's not to absolve us of making bad choices because we are human beings after all, we do. but you got to tell the truth and i can tell you right now that that position is not necessarily held by loud racist. that position that you just read it's not someone that walks around perhaps, you know, declaring that he's a member of the kkk or not.

that position is being held by republicans and some democrats alike, right, and that's what we have to address as clearly as we can and with passion. and if folks don't want to listen, we will try to build the just america that reflects the truth. >> professor glaude do meself-identified conservative students your classes? >> most do. most of the time my sources are self-selected. so i -- i hope they do. we can have the kind of exchange that i think the best of education makes possible, yeah. >> professor glaude got ba from morristown collegeie and ph.d in religion from princeton. he chairs the african-american

studies department at princeton. he's taught there since 2002 and author of six books and we have about another half hour with him on book tv. richard in maryland, please go ahead with your question or comment. >> good afternoon, gentlemen. first and foremost, peter, i had a chance to tell you at the southwest book festival that you're one of the best interviewers in the business. keep up the good work. mr. glaude, you opened to donald trump, we are going to a better place. it reminded me of reagan did speech in georgia and i wanted tonow how did ito and lastly the statement that is you mad about mr. obama a you said you

took heat from it, it was a very pertinent statement and should have been stronger. to understand oba, you hado see him through the lens o kenyan-american and notya african-american because he did ianot associate himself with slavery. he had hopes and aspirations of making it to the great white boat andre and step away from parenting. lastly, going forward you said on morning show one time, we are going to go to a darker place. i think thattands and during the primaryies joe biden reminded me of woodrow wilson who had coalition from dubois and he and his wife wrote about

separation of dining facilities and federal offices and -- >> richard, we are going to leavet there. we've got fourr topics on the board. president tru, coats and president obama and a darker place. >> what donald trump did last night is very dangerous. we, i don't think we've faced as a republic this sort of challenge with regards to the transition, people transition of power in this land. he announced and we saw folks around him buy into a kind of lies and what he's doing, whether he'sw successful with e lawsuits or not, he's deepening the sense that the biden-harris administration would be illegitimate and that does not bode well toel how we will move

forward and then we will get to that. last night concrete evidence of the danger that the clear and present danger that trump present and enablers present to the republic. i think i want to make that very clear. in terms of brother coats, we've had, you know, brief conversationsie in passing on le and by e-mail but we've never really sat down and talked. i think we have a different politics. that would be anve interesting conversation to have i think about how we think about black culture and black politics. it would be interesting, so that's the short answer. in terms of obama, i don't like to think -- i don't like to talk about obama in terms of identity

andd politics. i don't want to attribute to him decisions that flow from identification as kenyan american or african-american. my disagreements with barack obama are principally political, to me he's a third-awe -- third-wave democrat, clintonism, however we want to describe. i don't think that's the answer to the scales of the problems in the country. in fact, i would go as far as to say that the third-way democrat contributed to the environment that produced donald trump himself. and we could have that argument, right? in terms of the last point, let me get to this really quickly. we have been talking about me

being from the gulf coast, i'm from the coast as you know and as a result i've been through a few hurricanes and what's so interesting abouts hurricanes is know, the front of end of the hurricane is fear and danger and then you get the calm of the eye and during the eye of the storm i remember my daddy alwalking out of the house and assessing damage and looking at what's there but then you know the tail is coming. we are in the eye of the storm. the tail is coming. the tail is coming. >> patricia buffalo, please go ahead. >> honor to speak h with you professor glaude, my question is do you have a position on reparations and did james baldwin have a positio on reparations. i do believe that we are old

reparations, that's my question. thank you foraking me. >> thank you for t question. i believe in reparatio but it all depends on what form it m.takes. reparations can take a number of different forms. part of what i've been arguing is that need to understand raci inequality oracial injustice as a resu of policy decision and that the remedies will have to beriven by policy, now, of course, a moral, ethical set of comtments that come along with it but in order to genuinely remedy racial inequaty we will have policy decisions that people dectly and that can fall under the rubric of discourse of reparations. like brian stevenson sd, it's

all sequential, first you tell the truth and then you reconcile andhen we repair. ifou don't tell the truth the reconciliation will be on shaky grounds and repair will never evidence itself in long-te sense in some ways. so that's how i respond to that question. >> the next call comes from karen and caren and karen is in detroit. >> i've enjoyed and watching you speak on various shows. i'm a big news person and m question is this, what were the factors that led to the formation of the africaamerican studies program at princeton university? i know that during the 1970's a lot of african-arican studie programs were formed. d.i was present at the formation of the one in indiana university

ani was curious, what do you think a the factors that led to the formation and how well those progra have been sustained over years, thank you. >> having everythin to do with studentyt protests during the 1960's, 1967, ' 68 and so you might talk about this having everything to do with free speech out in berkeley but you think about what happened in san francisco state, what happened at yale, what happened at cornell. as universities and collegesre beginning to open its doors to black and brown folk and women they are beginning to experience pressure and the new constituencies becam to demand of universities spaces, right, and curriculum thateflect the

compx experiences of human life that it's not just about old white men or particular western cannons and the like, so we see different kinds of institutional configuration of black studies across t country. some become program and se centers and some become departments and the like. princeton is late in the game. our department of african-american studies is very young. we just graduated our first cohort of ba's in african-ameran studies just a few yes ago and had everything to do with the black lives matter movement and how it evidence itself in our campus with black andrown and diversed student bodies and allies holding the university acuntable and demanding that th university in some ways catch up that african-american are in existan. >> to follow up a text from

anita mitchell, member of the seminary alum. why didn't name woodrow wilson school after michelle obama instead of melony. >> one t of the residential hals has been named after melony hoffman. look, i don't know -- i'm not investing in who they name after in that sense. i just want the environment to reflect the diversity of the world that weld live in and thas what's important to me. we will see what happens, how the school eventually celebrates its alumni michelle obama. we will see in the course of the years. >> this is tina in bethesda, maryland. which one work by james baldw

would you recommend peopleead? >> so, my lord, that's so hard. the library addition and just read it from the beginning to the end although that collection, i think it needs to beo a redone such that it cludes the evidee of things which is baldwin's last book published in 1987 about the atlanta child murders, by the way. e spine of begin again is no name in the streets and i often teach no name in the streets published in 1972 along side baldwin and, you know, i notice i'm focusing on nonction. no name in the street is so important for me because it's the rst, the first book jimmy publishes after the

assassination of king and he's in a vulnerabl place and he's trying to gapleith the country's betrayal. if -- if no name in the street is the reckoning and if you delve into the book at the level of form and substance, it would open up, i think, baldwin's later work in ways that are just fascinating. so it's an important book at the level of content but also important book at the level of formal innovation that will help me understand what he's doing in fiction and work later on. >> professor, i've got the library series of baldwin's work and i've been -- just finished -- the early books, those aren't edited in any way when they are in the library, the full text?

>> the full text. the editor is tony moore. they found language in baldwin's probe. beautiful. but anyway. >> we always ask our guests in in-depth and what they are reading andere were professor galude's answer no name in the street. gabriela garcía márquez, toni morrison, otherde stories, sarah broom, the yellow house, currently reading jasmín and natasha, memorial drive, the debtor arising, the life of malcolm x, susan, consciousness is harness to flesh and joseph conrad, the heart of darkness.

any of those books you want to add a little mention to. but at the level of structure, it is a gorgeous book and beautifully written. a memoir but so much more than that and how this house is the metaphor, it's just a beautiful book it's a beautiful book and i think it's important for me to kind ofeach for contemporary writers because, you know, often times we find ourselves looking back to the giants and thinking that we are just empty facts, right, but i read emerson too

much to understand we can't std in differential writers of the past. i didn't write a book about jimmy baldwin and i wrote with him. ii want to lift up, you know, sarah broom and others who are doing some extraordinary work in this moment, so, yeah. i'm reading joseph comrades, i've been reading for the last 6, 7 months. we are readi the heart of darkness and it's amazing. >> have you thought ant writing -- about writing fiction? >>absolutely. i have to get better before i let anyone read it bause it's so bad. >> you have written? it's hidden in the office. >> it's buried in the midst of the mess that only i know whe itw is. yeah, so -- eventually one of

these days i have -- i have a story abt my grandmother that's in my head from one who lost her children to suide and then who lost memories to alzheimer'snd it's amazing story. i have to become a better writer into manage it. >> begins like a sermon, is that a fair analysis? >> well, you know, it has elements of the black tradition, yes. i think it's this eloquent form, right, that i'm comfortable in even though i come out of the tradition, i've heard the best black preaching in the world at moore house and, of course, when you read jimmy, you not only

hear the language of henry james, you know, and others, you hear the language of -- of the king james bible and you hear the language of the church, the black church. you can't republican but have those moments evidence themselves. >> i want to acknowledge tadias and new port news, virginia, his text saying that his favorite writing by james baldwin is no name in the street. richards in little rock, arkansas, go ahead, richard. >> pyes, professor, i would jut like to hear you talk briefly about how students value education and in particular i'd give it historical context, how they valued it in the past compared to today? whatever, just talk a bit about that, thank you. >> you know, it's hard to say, i mean, you know, i don't want to

-- i think some students who come to education instrumentally, right, i need to get this because i want to do this and get that, so education is news to an end and we see across higher ed an assault on the humanities, assault on the disciplines that are not kind of vehicles to making money, vehicles to a kind of profession as it were so you have some students who approach education transactionally. i want to say that up front and there's some that their curiosity drives them and they are reaching for ways of seeing, new ways of seeing and knowing that makes them more expansive. they're actually trying to get the keys and curiosity is so

infectious right. o i just hadad a student this semester, the first paper was full of all of the unnecessary jargon and he's like, no, and then the revised paper was beautiful and brilliant in so many ways and that openness to growth. so i think there's transaction and then there's curiosity and then thehe folks that are really -- this is only o analytically distinguishable. folks who are -- who understand their life as the canvas upon which they can create art. they are engaged in sub creation and so education becomes a

critical moment of character formation and so they are invested because they are engaged in this extraordinary effort that extends backgrounds or parochial beginnings. that's why i love the hell of what i do. >> richard in little rock, arkansas, hi, richard. >> hello. i'm a ltle confused because i was listening on my phone. what i was talking about is today professors have ks that listen to their cell phone during class, et cetera. it seems to be degrading how they value education, it seems to be gng downward. >> i wouldn't make that general ization,ou know, technogy has impacted h folks learn.

technological innovation changes the way you learn math. i remember -- i don't know what they are called,arbles that you moved across. babies are growing with these things in tir hands andrains are wired in some different ways and it's challenging as professor to get their attention. they could be checking emailsr looking at tiktokr instagram or whatever. that's happening. i think -- i i don't want to dru conclusion from the technological advances that somehow they value education less. i don't want to draw that conclusion just yet. >> well, inel a larger sense is higher education particularly going to be changing even more radically in the next 5 years because of technology, because of the information that is

available? >> you know, that's always -- that has been a part of the transformation as we see digital humanities and a range of other shifts in changes in the landscape. i think more than anything covid-19, you know, covid changes the prioritization of our lives. there was pre-covid and then post-covid. the landscape of higher education would be fundamentally education post-covid. having everything to do with the resource disasperity, having everything to do with how these particular platforms change the way in which we interact with our students and the way in which to use language and the ways that universities deliver product to students and the

like. >> let's hear from karen in atlanta, hey, karen. >> hi. dr. glaude, first let me say thank you because you were with us at the people of color conference this week and you're amazing. i actually led the book discussion on friday which had 500 people packed in there and one lingering question, especially those people of color working in independent schools tgrappling with, we wanted to know what you -- what's your stance in regard to time that we find ourselves in particularly as it relates to our -- our white colleagues who are, you know, many of them for the first time excited and ready to,

quote, do the work, but really still looking to us to sort of, you know, i guess carry them through that, if that makes any nse. >> karen, we will get an answer just a minute. tell us really quickly about yourself. >> oh, yeah, i'm the chief diversity equity and inclusion officer at the gallaudet school in atlanta and i work with vice esident of national association of indepdent schools, and so we had dr. glaude who delivered the most amazing keynote opening address to ushis week and then so followed up with a -- a very brief discuion on his book and have already started making plans to hopefully do an 8 or 9-part series because s there's just so much interest and it's so relevant to what we

do, but we are struggling because, you know, we know how baldwin felt at the end. wewe all were kind of -- >> karen, what's the galloway school? >> the only school in atlanta that accepted d martin luther king's children and was founded on the principles of social justice and i have jus been hired for the first time, the school wasounded in 1969 but i was just hired to be first chief equity t and inclusion officer. >> thank you very much. we will have to leave it there. dr. glaude. >> i actually get the phrase from democratic, a moment when one world is crashing down and a new world is reborn, the between

space. whitman was worrying what the gilded age meant for democracy and here we are in the second gilded age in some ways. i'm always asked the question by white -- by fellow white wamerican citizens, what can io to help and sometimes it get frustrating because you feel i have to bear the burden, first thing i typically say is that we have to shift our frame from viewing racial justice as a charitable or philanthropic enterprise, right, racial justice is not yours to give anybody, you don't possess, racial equality is not yours to give, you don't possess it. we have to build a different of way of building a more just world. that last formulation opens up answer to the question, whenever -- what can i do next, that

question -- i think we need to respond to it. what's the conception of more just world. baldwin used to say all of the time. what else does a negro want and he would raise the hackles on his neck. whenever you hear, we want the same thing, what else a negro wants? you should be able to put food on the table. if you do, fight for a living age. if you believe that everyone fshould be treated equally undr the law, you should fight for criminal justice reform in a deeper sense. if you believe that nobody should go broke because they are sick, right, then you need to join the fight for healthcare for all. we can go on and on. what's your conception of a just world? and with you -- if you answer that question honestly, you're going to find yourself right square in the middle of racial

injustice in the country. so part of the task for us is to ask our fellows, right, make a choice, choose whether or not you are going to be a person who happens to be white or you're white person. baldwin makes that distinction, peter,ha and the evidence of things not seen. he says i happen to love a lot of people who happen to be wite. i'm paraphrasing. what does he mean, those folks engaged in ongoing interrogation of how race distributes advantage and disadvantage and they understand that racism comes to them as naturally as language and they are going to fall short but they are working hard to create a more just world and then there are folks who are committed to the idea that advantage and disadvantage should be distributed on the lines of who is valued and who less value. where are you going to stand? choose and then act on it and let's act together to build a more just world. >> have you considered running

for office? >> oh, no, no, no. >> why? >> i'm free. i love what i do. i'm in the classroom. i rebelled in the class o the mind. i get to interact with amazing students every year. you know, i get paid to read -- as i tell myself, i get paid to read,rite and run my mouth, the three favorite things i love to do. >> text message to you, as time passes, we understand historical figures better and differently. is there any one you have changed your mind about? >> say that again? ask that again. >> as time passes, we understand historical figures better and differently, is there any one that you personally have changed your mind about in history?

>> think about that for a minute and let's go back to phones and --st whitman. is that the answer? whitman. yeah. >> why? >> there's e moment, yout know, afr reading editorials, blatant cists, hypocrite and i had to figure out how to come back to him and i did and democratic justice is one of my favorite books. >> yolanda in denver, hi, yolanda. >> hello, dr. galude, this is about obama's latest book and i was disappointed that in the light of the destruction of 10 to 20% of black america's

ancestors that this chaos and terrorism and this happened after the destruction of the libyan government by obama and he seemed to express pride in what he did to destroy the libyan government -- >> yolanda, we are out of time, what specifically is your question? >> i was just wonring if you -- if you had any kind of opinion abt obama continuing to be proud of what he did? thank you, yolanda, i will finish with a quote, professor, this is from democracy in black. obama sold black america a he build bilclinton and jimmy whoer, other conferenceen presented themselves as people who would cllenge the racial order of things. >> i know we are running short on time so i will fall back on my southern roots, going back to

point. when i think aboutresident obama now theno only thi that comes to my heads that we have been there and done that. been there and done that. >> eddie glaude, author of six books, most recently begin again, james baldwin america and urgent lessons for our own. we apprecie you spending 2 hours with us from princeton. >> thank you. ..