there were some evil guy with a magnetic race second down under the bed. i was just pinned it to the bed i couldn't move out felt so heavy. i got something, these dogs they want me to it be done with my talk. they're like it's to throw the ball. [laughter] i got two dogs licking on both sides. [laughter] said we just have a few more questions they will have to wait for long. you mentioned you're doing experiment of the iss. the question here, did you do experiments that address medical issues? >> oya. many of them were on myself. i did a lot of ultrasounds of my eyeball, my brain, my heart. i did a lot of laser scans and infrared scans of my eye. i did some medicine experiments for big pharmaceutical drug companies to look at salmonella and e. coli, vaccines.

i did another research experiment for bone and muscle wasting diseases like osteoporosis and muscular dystrophy for another big pharmaceutical experiment. there is one, one of the coolest experiments evers ams. it is a big giant particle detector on the outside the size of a small room and it's looking for antimatter. basically anti- helium particles. as an indicator of dark matter and dark energy. they say the universe is made of 90% of staff don't even what it is. much less any details. we are trying to find that out. as lots of other different kinds experiments, tuna 50 when i was there material science combusting science different engineering, psychology experiments, did this thing called journals bro keep a journal and send it back to doctor jack he has

been analyzing abstract articles for about concierge. we are honest with him. is very honest with him at the nasa doxy finder happy everything is good. the crew is great were all happy let's go get it done. and then you may be happy may not be. both him everybody was honest. he is unable to track astronauts moods and how they're doing psychologically which is super important. so yes, did a lot of experience and they were focused on medicine. subject to time from a 12-year-old viewer, what is on astronaut application to bring attention to it so you increase your chances of getting selected? ischemic you just hit the nail on the head. you need something to bring attention to it. mike said when i was living nasa their 18000 applications and is helping them go through thousands of these things. so all the basic stuff, everybody has all the basic stuff. i member there was a lady had been a nascar mechanic perches

working on nascar cars. folks who do serious mountain climbing. not thrillseeking but actual serious technical mountain climbing, scuba diving those kind of things. spider pilot test a pilot are by far the most important best thing you could have in your resume. nasa wants things that are operational. we don't nestlé want book nerds, professors write on blackboards all day long. that is a great, but that's not what she does an astronaut. what does an astronaut is you do. it's not a thinking job it is a doing job. you need people they can work at operational environments. especially flying. when there but is on the line, it is a dangerous thing, you consulted the job done. that is probably the most important thing. probably something that's a little bit different than the status quo. there is a sea of status quo applications. all of them great, they would probably make great astronauts but there's thousands of them. sector some interesting things

that nasa's going into like material science, 3d manufacturing, space-based construction, space-based power. there's a lot of newer technology that's being adapted to this new space environment. they sought jerry was saying i could imagine if you specialize in things like 3d printing, materials and things like that. but as you say hands on, that we did kinds of things nasa would love to have a person is very specialized in helping run a 3d printer to build girders in space for a future space telescope. we did the first ever 3d printing when i was there. we made a wrench there's a famous picture of a white ranch and that was during my mission. the thing is, that is your specialty that's great. and during your six month mission that's going to take up one half hours. and the other 5.99 months are going be doing different stuff

every day. so having a specialty is great. most importantly you succeeded what you're doing. but even more than most important is your ability to be adaptable. you're also adapted crew doctor peart going to have to unpack 7b and accountants. we going to have to do interviews like this. so the real skill is being operational being flexible. being able to do more than one thing for it have to go to walk and chew gum at the same time. specs up at the word adaptable on your resume and in bold. >> if i was looking at the applications was i'm not a martha don't listen to it i would say, that ability to be adaptable would be really important to me. >> howdy person demonstrate their adaptable? that is not a job. >> view are an astronomer by day but you do this high-tech mechanic work at night, you can do two things at once. if you are a test pilot during the day but you know how to

speak russian and you have done foreign exchanges before, it shows that you can work with international cruise which is super important obviously. so i think if you are a systems engineer he worked on this engineering project in the near and engineering manager new design this thing in your entire crew and you have python and html, you have the world's ultimate engineering resume but you've never done anything else, that is not what nasa wants. they went should have some international expense, speak a language or two. have a pilots license or be a military test pilot. you do need to be able to do more than one thing. at least in today's nasa. >> will thank you so much for joining us this evening. thank you for your time, thank you for telling us a bit more about the earth from a fund the iss. we appreciate it, we hope you continue to stay safe here and the grounds.

and hopefully come through the bookstore here in humble ann arbor, michigan someday. until then, to all of our viewers think of your questions, thank you for tuning in for it for all at home later thanks again you can buy it online. take care everybody will see what the next event. >> thanks for having us. sabbatical we connect this monthly feature book tv programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on cspan2. tonight as part of our 2020 year in review, we focus on books about business and economics. first economist and best-selling author thomas on his book capital and ideology. then thomas or elect chief economist for bloomberg economics talks about his book, china the bubble that never pops. later authors rebecca henderson and marion share their thoughts on business and capitalism at the boston book

festival. that starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern. enjoy book tv this week and every weekend on cspan2. >> 61 million americans have some form of disability. and yet we are less than 3% of tv shows part i would add the majority of those roles are portrayed by nondisabled actors. so ultimately if someone with a disability, we want to see ourselves represented. because ultimately renouncing a reps resented, it is going to help destigmatize disability. and representation in general gets society used to everybody. and ultimately, it makes the world a more inclusive place for. >> actor nick no vicki founded the easter seal disability film challenge and response to seeing disability is underrepresented in front of them behind the camera. sunday night on q&a he will talk about this year's entries and winning films.

mick at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q and a. >> all right everyone good evening and welcome to the online author event at greenlight bookstore. i'm jackie from the agreement bookstore we are excited to host tonight's event presenting her new book middletown peart shall be talking with ben fountain you are in for an excellent time pair before we start i just want to say a huge thanks to kerri and ben and the team at saint martins for making this happen for all of you for showing up. where not be able to host events in our stores at this moment, are committed authors and readers are still here. we're incredibly grateful for your support and to face the conversation and connection. a couple of housekeeping things before you started this evening. in your zoom webinar you can see and hear the speakers but they cannot see or hear you. they can see if you are here with that participant information on the bottom. you can see your fellow attendees on the bottom as well.

you're welcome too post your comments and your thoughts in the chat as we are getting going. it's a great way to show your appreciation for the author and interact with fellow attendees. if you have specific questions you'd like answered by the author to the q&a segment please post the question in the q&a module pretty combined the bottom of your screen by clicking on the icon that looks like two speech balloons. will the polling questions only from the q&a this evening other comments are welcome in the cha chat. recording tonight's event to look for the video or audio version on social media channels later on. and importantly tonight's featured book mill town is for sale from greenlight spirit is a great way to show your support for both independent bookstores light green light and authors like kerry. we just put in the chat you can pick up at the store for free shipping anywhere in the

u.s. so we appreciate your support again ever bookstores and their author. sort interviewer this evening is been found super he's the author of the, short story collection a nonfiction work, beautiful country again democracy rebellion and revolution. this book has received the national critics award for fiction hemingway award the los angeles book prize for fiction and the flaherty first novel award. and has been a finalist of the national book award. he lives in dallas. he was speaking with our featured author kerri arsenault. she signature bidding editor at the literary house. she's also a mentor for penn america's prison injustice writing program. she has appeared on greenlight stage of the past as an interviewer this is the first time we had the chance to host or to present her own book. we are incredibly excited.

so ben and kerri please take it away. >> all right thank you jackie. i am really excited to be doing this event with kerri. i read this book and bound manuscript around the beginning of the year. i think there cannot be a more relevant book right now for our times politically, environmentally, in terms of class and economics. and i just think it is one of the big books of the year. and probably one of the big books of the decade. it is a real pleasure and honor to be presenting this book. it is a beautifully written book. we will get into that as well. it gets down into the real stuff of life. that is actually lived.

and kerri could have gone after one or two things in this book but she went after everything. and it is a complex of books and all of the right ways. so, kerri, hats off to you. would you just tell us a little bit about the book and how you came to write it? >> thanks, i'm happy to be here going to make me cry. so mill town if you don't know is that narrative nonfiction book about a town in which my family worked. they examine it more broadly the un- building of the american dream and the working class, the hazards of loving and leaving home and indigenous nature of toxic and disease. and how i started this book began with a false document

and ends with a false document. i've been doing genealogy research back in 2001. in summary grandfather's obituary and death certificate and found all kinds of information i never would've known about him because he died when i was two or three. and i wanted to find out a little bit more about him. so i wanted to find out where he lived first of all which is in princeton, rhode island the little town and i looked for the town and i couldn't find it so i decided to go to the stone. so my father and i drove up to princeton rhode island films out there is no town with that name the document was wrong. so if that's wrong family tree would else is wrong and documents that we think is

true and real? i think that's really what started me off on this crazy path. >> host: right let me just frame it this way, this is a mystery book. and not just one mystery, but three mysteries going on here. there is the scientific mystery of why so many people in the community of the mexico and plumbs for, maine became sick with all of these exotic kinds of cancers and died so much so it would became known as cancer valley. so what was going on there, number one. number two, is a human mystery. and that is, once people started to realize what was going on, why did they stay? and why did people continue to work at the mill? and then number three is the mystery of your family.

where do you come from? and what is it about your family and the akkadian community that makes you the way that you are? make sure family the way you are? and any one of these could have been enough for a book. but, you get all three in this book. they also complement each other and a very genuine, wonderful way. and, let's start with this. what is smokestack money? [laughter] the largest smokestack and our town was like a big giant middle finger in our town really that's how i always saw it. that is where that everything he smokes deck was offered and it meant the mill was working. the mill operated 25 today seven days a week except for

shutdowns. talk about this with my husband the other day. it doesn't shut down like something over here it's all very connected which was an interesting part of the structure of itself you can't just stop one. so that mill was always offering 24 -- seven. that's what our town orbited around for income. but also at the beginning for everything. the owner of the mill built houses, the library, roads, railroads, yea people 50s for christmas. the millman tower so intertwined it would be impossible to extract them. the smokestack is a symbol of it. so when it was operating them at the time was doing well. but as the town is doing well

it was being polluted when the smokestack was operating. >> i've seen this in the book you could see the smokestack from anywhere in town. was also a constant reminder of that presence in our daily live lives. it's like air but the opposite of air, you know? you had to have it to exist. >> yes i grew up in eastern north carolina and my mother's family were farmers. and there was a warehouse or pulpit mill about 10 miles east of my grandparents farm. when the wind was right, man, you could smell that mill. and so would you describe, i'm sure to same smell, would you describe that smell? >> it's so funny.

we so is it smells like money for one thing. and ridley to ms. going to sound weird it smells like home. my father would come home from work every night and smell like better every day. it's this mixture of rotten eggs and rotten cauliflower. but there's that acid would smell because of the woodchips. as a constant smell you drive town you still smell it. it's unpleasant but it so intrinsic and the memories it's also hard to separate those things. megan kids would come to town for sports team and sent smells like forts in your town. what smelled like forts basically. alright carried tell tell us about the bleach room at the

mill. >> i have never been there appeared i would've liked to have gone. my grandfather worked there. what happens in the bleach room is where the magic happens. it's where the pope turns white, you know. and to do that, at the beginnin beginning, up until 1997 the process was basically the same to bleach paper use chlorine to bleach it, what's happened in the combustion process of that creates a dangerous byproducts with dioxins it's a family of dioxins. and dioxins are one of the most dangerous toxic known to humankind it's the same that using agent orange.

it is enough areas. sup until 1997 use of this chlorine that created tons of dioxins all over the u.s. and the world they change the regulation so they had to mill's had a change or bleaching process. they change it to it chlorine free which is not chlorine for its elemental chlorine free it's a trick of language coming on i mean? that created remarkably less dioxins, snow with are using today. still creates dioxins. >> okay, and your grandfather, xers far as i can tell, all through the mill's operation, they would only put the old guys to work in the bleach room. >> this is what i was told yes. >> either you or your father thought for a long time it was

because you needed the most experienced people to work in the bleach room. and actually that was not why they put the older guys in the bleach room. >> rights. that was scott bernard she told me that she was a woman who worked in human resources there at the time. she found out, she said i figured it out. they're closing in on retirement so that when they retire, how my going to say this, when they retired they don't have so many years left after because they look at them to get sick after they work there. and they would only have a few years until retirement and that's what they would die. and that is what happened to my grandfather. she said she figured it out. but if you look back, i looked that was in the death records that is correct. >> in other words the leitrim is so poisonous and so

hazardous that basically it was cannon fodder >> they're treated like garbage. they were basically a recycling unit for industry. they were treated like that. >> and you know, everything about okay, middle management knew what they were doing. they're putting the old guys in the bleach room. i mean, i've got to believe, we will get into that later. right, flashforward 22012. we are coming out of the great recession of 2008, 2009. the journal which is a newspaper in maine, it has a story. the headline is some label poxon spike as positive, pulp and paper industry says increase is a good sign.

state officials not alarmed. in other words, the fact that toxins are toxic or going up, that is a great sign. it means the economy is coming back. and you know wealth people probably going to get sick and die, but you know. >> it's funny. the smokestack is generating stuff. >> it also reminds me of the response either chess or revert a lot of elected officials with covid and the lieutenant governor here in texas, dan patrick said well, we should all go back to work, especially the older people. and if we get sick and i will there's no great loss. we are to die anyway soon. but basically, it's human beings are cannon fodder for

capitalism. >> right. one of the mysteries of the book is, why do people go along with it? right? >> the danbury shakes in this book. that was the mercury poisoning that hatters would get in danbury, connecticut. >> from working with hats. i mean deadly conditions. and people would knowingly take those jobs and go in and work those jobs knowing that it was going to kill them. in effect the new jersey bureau of six to six in labor in one of their reports, the surprise is that men can be induced to work and death producing enclosures. it's hard to believe that men of ordinarily intelligence could be so indifferent to the ordinary laws of health.

your book does a deep dive into this question in the smith mystery. and one of the parts, will you do quote a study about organizational silence. in the workplace both in the u.s. and another study in europe. talk about that a little bit. >> yeah so the first thing i looked at was the actual silenc silence. why didn't anybody say thing? why didn't i say anything. i was 45 years will be for even started thinking about this. i wanted to looked at the actual thing. the study said that something like 80% of people that work in the workplace, no matter where it was. the paper mill, office, whateve whatever. 80% of the people would not say anything that was repeated in europe. the silence, it was actually a mystery to the researchers to

because they're like wellin the silence happens they could not figure out why it kept happenin happening. i just kept repeating itself over and over. they started looking at the silence. and then i thought well studies can only tell you so much. i'm going to go back home repeatedly and try to understand it. at the same time try to understand my earnings for simplicity in it too. we joked about it, cancer valley ha ha ha. why do we take it seriously? all part of the book is so complex printing typically every day you go to work at a place that could be dangerous. they make compromises about everything. think people are mistaken to think this was a choice. i had a lot of people ask me over the years working on this, will why didn't they just leave or go get a job someplace else?

it's so complex. first of all this is what they do, three generations of my family works there. it's connected it's their identity. people don't think of a paper maker as an identity. it's an identity, a fisherman, a fireman at the same kind of thing. secondly, if you grew up working there, your father worked there and you go get an education or stated home. there were not other job option options. or it works in the hospital but those are education and the only thing you could do. and you know, i also think about this in the same chapter two. listen great job. there was a lot of money there. you did well for a rule no

higher education you did really well. like me and my siblings by those, four of us went to college. it was my father on one income could do that, this, fetus, have a decent childhood. we had a happy childhood. there's a lot of reasons. my mother would repeatedly say that, it's a great life. it's complicated when people say was it worth it? i had people ask if it was worth it. that's like saying my father dies with me in the middle of writing this book. he gets cancer and dies is not a giveaway or anything. what was it worth it for him to die? i don't know if that is answerable. i try to think it of it as he didn't have a choice. you need those in the more privileged spots to say they had a choice.

it's more complicated thing. they didn't really have a choic choice. i talk about old man thompson print out for by this, there's some myth maybe it's true. thompson had a stable of horses. everyone would come in and choose the best choice to use. that horse would get worn out and worn out. it's okay have to choose this horse in the beginning of the row you can't pick one. you'd have the take that or leave it is kind of a take it or leave it buried that's kind of like our jobs, take it or leave it. leaving it was really hard. her family lives there your ancestors are buried there, whatever. some people just say stay because of love which says that in the book. but that's a very powerful thin thing. >> i think one of the great

parts of the book it's kind of like our town. the classic in that you get so many voices in so many stories in this book. i mean you go around and talk to people. and he must be a very good interview. i know you, you are engaging, your suites, you listen. but you get great stuff from these people. and so that alone would have been an oral history of this mill town would have been a find a book. that'll he went aspect of your book. i think it's a very strong aspect. again, you are trying to get the bottom of why would you stay in cancer valley? why would a family choose? let's bring in another aspect of that. that is the akkadian community

and the fact that you are of akkadian ancestry. in that particular cohort of people went there so much hardship, so much displacement, so much dispersing over starting in the 1750s, do think that has something to do with the stubbornness or the determination your family and other family sustained mexico? first acacia it's connected, but it's more like trying to sit and bid, among, and just be there. and there's people i knew, i think every main character in the book was someone i knew.

i just wanted to really understand them if i understood them i would understand me. think that was very similar to the akkadian situation. even though more than half of the town was akkadian, franklin american dissent. everybody, we never learned about it. here i am 45 years old i find this accidental error for my grandfather who was born in a naturalized citizen in america, he wasn't born here. so i also wanted to find out about these people to and understand, not only who they were but what brought them to maine, but is it mean of the past how is that pass connected to the present day, my present-day life or to the present-day life of a family. and i do think there are, i

mean there are some studies about in the dutch 1940s famine they were silenced and remained silent. that cause negative health effects for people who suffered under this famine for the trying to look at how trauma can actually affect. some people are going to say that's hokey pokey. i don't know, like there's something to that. i talked to joan, don't she is on this call. she is really a wonderful resource for me. she is very knowledgeable, she talked about the emotional transfer. a nice what is that mean? she said you know your great-grandmother and i did. our member stories. her story in the book that she helps me. i knew her and she was born 1886. and she knew her great-grandmother was born in

1865 or maybe even earlier. so that is almost 200 years of emotional transfer. does that make sense? civic 1765. >> yes sorry that would make sense. so must 200 years of emotion which almost brings it back to the ethnic cleansing of the arcadian's, 21755 cleansing. that trauma is not really that distant if you look at it that way. i knew my great-grandmother and she knew her great-grandmother. until the stories traveled down, i don't mean travel through i felt that in my family the very strong feeling. but i did not understand what it meant. i really didn't understand this akkadian history and what

they went through. soy started working on this book. >> all right they are, as we talk by your family a little bi bit, there must be some tough abroad in your family. >> is i wish me to it say? again maybe i'm a lot like my grandmother. stomach your grandmother, when they she is sitting there in a bunch of you grandkids are around. [laughter] this is a quote, including from the book. and she says to you guys, i love you all very much, but if i had it all to do over again, none of you would be here she said as virginia slim seaside on her li lip. [laughter] >> you know, that is informatio information, it is emotional information where she loves you but it has been a hard life. i knew no part >> yes she

would to the depression, world war ii, she was the same woman who taught me to it swim by pushing me off the work she went swim that's how it was in our family basically, literally and metaphorically. she pushes me out and says go, don't surround. [laughter] >> now there are, as a sit at the beginning there's a wonderful writing his book it is wonderfully written throughout. but, if i can i want to read a fairly long paragraph about your mother. and talk about tough women, think about both of your parents but she has a story. stomach my parents shake their own well-worn paths. my father worked back and forth from the first bridge across work. my mother had laundry up and down the cellar stairs after day. when skinny arm cradling the

laundry basket. her free hand with a cigarette. a screech and a whack the screen toward slam shut after she able to open for she dumped clean laundry on the article table, snap each article of clothing three times, sharp them into wedges of fabric and stack them like reams of white paper my father brought him from the mill. when the screen door were out, my mother replace it with a new one that came with a squeaky spring. she left it defective. announcing herself into infinity with only my father to hear, his hearing longer dulled by the home of paper machines was a perfect match to her perpetual clamor. my mother, she let her vantage expire before finishing it and send me to it fetch her a new pack from the corner store. i will time you she would say. now go. and off i went. she did not need to tell me

twice. all right, that is damn good writing. right there. >> thank you for reading it's interesting to hear. >> it is a lovely passage. >> it says a lot about her. she wasn't elbowing personal little bit. she still is. she is out at all of the main bookstore to make sure should they have my book she helps me every day. >> good for her. she comes across very vividly is a very strong person. you talk about sacrifices, and the book. and these are, it is a term of art designated areas in the u.s. that are next to, close by, environmentally dangerous facilities. and people live in these zones, sacrifices zones. on so just aside from the

health effects, i mean when you know you live in a sacrifices zone, when you know you are cannon fodder, i mean, it is got to be number one a source of shame. and then, the reaction to that will be pride. will be this kind of a stubborn, i will live here, i am that tough. this is in me, this is my community, this is my identity. talk about that a little bit. >> that is a really good point. i think that pride is one thing. laughter is another thing. a lot of humor in this town. everything is pretty damn funny. >> gallows humor, trench warfare humor. >> that is me. i don't know, it's interesting part i was on the event the other day, my cousin was there we grew up like brother and sister.

and somebody said that. somebody asked him about that. why did you not question it? it is this on question and un- answered saying. you just do it. you show up. and at some point, guess they know they're some people this of this a lot of cancer here we got to do something. but the studies that came out, and definite. or the government would be out the toxic spike is good. or whatever it was. i think i say this in the book and is a turnstile of resignation right? it's like asking after wilds okay this is where it is. it's a like the dioxin right now, wired to augment dioxin, that issue is dead. everyone thanks that is gone. it is because you would carefully and quietly put on the shelf, that is why.

he think that's what happened with some of these sacrifices zones. there are some people still shouting about it. was doc martin stepped the distefano temper you try. but you get beat up by it. and i say this too, to have time for this i barely had time for it and i worked on it for ten was an ordinary person and you have to be at the time and energy especially for just trying to like, peter kids or maybe even find a stove and go to work. there's health buses and

transportation. yet to walk. so what job do you get where you can walk to work. and get sleep you need. i could go on and on. for us five kids in my home in the town . they are food insecure. who has time to worry about that . especially when you're getting a paycheck. ben: one of the great lines the book is who is a time to fight the mega corporation when you're making and wage . kerri: yeah. it. ben: or even if you are making minimum wage. kerri: especially with no work. ben: in an industrial capital. everything is so big and so complex. where can individuals go to go

for protection from the authority or expertise. the only institution that would have the resources for that is the government. as a spend lots and lots of time with the government, the regulation and then looking what but is charged for with reference to the regulation. ultimately, you come to the realization that it usually follows the regulation. the rod is in what is in the regulation. how to get there and who determines it. the way god written. and that is really where the smoking gun is. kerri: exactly. and try to even understand it. it is impossible. you been a lawyer.

it's impossible. it is all a metaphor for who is living upstream and he was living downstream. if you are downstream, you just taking all of the crap that's running down river. and the people making the regulations are living upstream . cannot touch them. ben: yes. that is another great one. and it ties into this. plus studying the government often determines risk for everyone, we should probably be up to the person facing the risk to determine its level of acceptability. kerri: yes. his alter body burden. they said the it exists.

it's interesting maybe mercury a little bit, my father got sick from asbestos. but the body, there's no studies saying what are all of these chemicals doing to your body. so by diverting the evaporated because of government leaders will bear. so literally that. the third aspirated team in the book my father gets lung cancer and esophagus cancer in 2013. nancy oxygen date is it measured all of the time. the tank is in the other room. it's frightening because it's another kind of fear because leroy's wondering is going to

blow up . i was terrified of staying there. i thought wildly going to do that to the river as well. mcnulty and measure the oxygen in the water. so the body burden. yes. in the environmental burden. it is very line. it is not separate. the people who are carrying the burdens. not as much as those people in the disenfranchised people. wherever they are. a lot of them are working class. they're always more susceptible to injustices. interesting that very slow and

nutritional disaster. scott attached with the news. in this book is getting out there slowly and equally. it is not what you think of as a disaster. assign the love canal prince of the level or whatever. ben: it is structural balance. balance is being done to the human body. in these communities especially. i have a list of some of my favorite lines here. so your writing about this. kerri: i know it's all mixed family and there. it is my actual grandmother. ben: it was a woman with a faith like a volcano. he rises to her husband's frank

. was affectionate with his tooth less smoke the way an octopus was racing has grandchildren with a manic grip. and here's one that often the fans will appreciate. [inaudible]. stated that were the same growing up. 101,978. it was a one-game playoff. kerri: and this is why met . not long after that. i think it the first time i met him. ben: yes. but after your dad died, she talking about the family. since on our shoulders like a nervous cat. an enduring strike in the mail,

sticks café vibrated with a rumble of the unemployed. and then in the hair salon, something pasted upon the mayor said this is a cone, not a magic wand. kerri: they could've been the subtitle of the book. sue and yes. you live there for a while. sue talking about the oil refinery there. and you read, over the tile roof tops of the candy colored abilities, the refinery smokestacks put off gases and fiery spasms and competition with the sunset. in his any of your relatives paredes making an appearance at the dinner table every night. but even then he seems to be elsewhere. the blank square in the game of scrabble. here's your mother. she's on a roll.

her words like a blender on high with the cover off. kerri: that's about most women in my family. ben: we might get a little bit political here carry. one of the other alternative subtitles that i found this book was proposed in this book. where did i write that down. okay, the subject will the book's reckoning with what remains . could just as easily be this going over the working class followed all of the rules and did everything they were supposed to. so you are writing about as any of your friends found trump election in 2016 to be a myste mystery. but you, the only surprise that

you experience with your surprise to their surprise. and then you are writing that trump, in about 40 years of broken promises and policies. and across the political spectrum. in the area right trump however saw the working class. and even if he to was riding the limo raising goldleaf toilet, even if in the end he didn't provide what we needed, and he stopped and opened his door and said hello. he lies all the time. but in 2016, and one powerful truth in that campaign. he kept saying the system is rigged. that's a powerful truth. and rencher to a lot of people in the country.

the story of your family your parents is the story of the working class . people who did everything right, followed all of the rules. worked hard. and with thrifty. they took care of their family and their community. then we get to the end of their lives and the like a tetherball. the right back where they started. talked with his broken promises and the policies. and why people do what they do when it comes to politics. kerri: i adapted some of that into an essay. money six job. a lot outlines 86 jobs i found. i could say it started years ago

but i think maybe even started even before that created trying to look at the american dream without really such an actual truth. was it a myth. because if that is in your book and i was just reading it tonight . it was not necessarily the people for doing better because they were the working class friedman became correctly. but everybody was doing better now is that thought. so wasn't just because they were hard-working. so they're all doing better than the same time, is just one thing. there's all of this other stuff is humanly to them. the dioxin in their bodies for example. i think i started maybe in the 70s when osborne.

reagan's policies and there was a strike in our town. and it really tore our town part. and not think that the company was loyal to them anymore. they were not. that happened. there are any discussions. i'm not an economist with the noise blogging in our town first. pieces of it build in and linger in. so then we went to the 70s and then the 80s. it and air traffic controllers. incomes and other people and nobody cared anymore. just about the bottom line.

starting with a strike within their loyalty started to waiver. in ml is owned by a man and his son and his son and the chemical company and the conglomerate. now chinese company. american manufacturing as well. you are talking about earlier, the people who are running the industry, it's about the town. getting to know what is going on in this town. at least when he found it he would be there once in a while. i can go into the '90s. in the berlin wall came down. and i thought, who cares. it was a recession.

i went through college right in the middle of it in the 1990s. it was really bad affrighted and try to get a job there. didn't even know where to work. and it just kept getting worse and worse . and my mother went back to work. and my father's income was not enough of the inflation it was getting worse. and then new people started to work didn't have health insurance. and just kept getting thinner and thinner and thinner. and there was walmart there and then all the small businesses go away. and again a slow disaster. maybe not slow in geological time but over the last 100 years. and then when trump shows up. i should say this too, and there's a article talking about how we saw him.

was in 1978 when you run. ben: 's 1982. kerri: so i was there around the same time. but then it was trump tower. we admired that wealth. we admired it. for a lot of complicated reasons. so trump then, we had this attraction to that. the moneymaking part of it. so when the 2016 election came up, there is a sort of i don't know the word is. and you can say it. ben: the fantasy. speech yes a fantasy. it's a weird parade so i was done with line.

and there is a any parallels in our books scared me. my husband said you need to call him right away and tell him to quit cupping lines the book. this drive from 2016 election . he gave them some glimmer of hope. maybe the outcome in 2016, they were the biggest trump voters. was against obama. but just about we need something anything. we are so desperate. this is a chance. this guy they followed. please he would do something, they didn't even care what parade is something. just so attritional party. ben: .

kerri: i think i could go on but i won't . ben: towards the end of the book, and we may be getting the point where we stop and take questions. towards the end of the book, there's a slovenly summing up. what you have done with the book. not sure you're consciously intended it this way but this is what you did. i can find no smoking gun, no magic bullet, no conspiracy, no strattocondemn my family or thee or federal government and the truth hissing spot about hard evidence in your hand. it is about examining looking at long-held beliefs and portal of history. in pushing back on them a ancestors pushback your guardian tied the palms of their hands.

that is a lovely passage. and that's why we write. so we go after book like this and why we read books like this. the truth is complex. and so we both like this to take deep dives into your experience what we can get close to the truth. often it is not satisfying where new ending would be. but, i think there is consolation and a lot of satisfaction in having a story authentically told. that reflects the truth of the experience and that's what this book is . it is a lovely book. speech of thank you.

quality small town businesses, and there is no aaron brockovi brockovich. it would be a lie and everybody would think everything is okay and it is not. it is definitely not. >> with guns questions and from the audience. the last two questions on behalf of some of our participants. the first one said, i read next on from your book which is incredible by the way. also memoir. and from the and environmental issues the residence the writers

world. and did any other thing have an impact inviting spring. kerri: no need and didn't. i'm an accidental environmental list. i don't know what i am. i have not read any of the environmental literature that some people thought it would. i did read one thing. because she talked a lot about what you said earlier about inaction which is just as dangerous as the wrong action. it's about the little things how they count. like small little teeny tiny dangerous things. it was more influential. as far as the environmental middle part of it. kerri: absolutely and thank you. it really came from the

materials that like i said came from everywhere. his coming asked me. full of boxes and people were mailing me like random things. it so that's why the structure of the book is not normal. is because of the material was not structural. while the tributary information . >> a question from out on long island, the home of airspace . i remember going to the town dump in the early 70s and lining up on the mountain of garbage, literally a mountain. you think every factor x has its kind of thing. kerri: yes. i do because a lot of these toxics are bio parade herve on

this call has them. the stronger they become the further down the chain you are. because of the economic developer of the town, they did profile on him. they asked him if he thought about my book, before it came out. and i just, i don't think it is in the past. the body burden. [inaudible]. lingering sessions but - >> one thing that i meant to ask kerry was but the response did

to the book in your hometown. kerri: yes. one of the biggest responses are a couple. mostly upward support. people said to me, it was moving for me to hear. but that i am seeing them. i think other people are saying them. they're reading about people at the beginning of this book . like a lot of people say it is interesting but i say is not interesting because i grew up there. the other thing, it is about time somebody broke the story. i felt nothing but support so far. although the book is just mild. nobody this book is a hero. nobody is about guy.

this just about melt. it's a lot more complex. and just truth and untruth. the complicated. this about people's lives . think the only binary in this leaders who constantly make regulations that choose that of life. truly binary. there is no gray area there. >> almost everybody on this call as well. >> an honest and refreshing look aspirated and whole experience how it works. and i think it is unfortunately timely always freedom deeply

happy that you're here . want to say thank you carrie and ben for this enlightening conversation this evening. and i will say again, you can spark carrie and her important work by buying the book . by an online. condor store. we will be deeply grateful for the people with doing this light shining work . kerri: to have to leave. i encourage all to read it. i'm going to read something. everybody stick around. hang on. if you've not read this book. we read this. and then he can all go home. talked about ted cruz in iowa. chris :-), look like appears

mouth of grimace with constipation. the rest of his mouth shows words of something. in the action plan, the :-), and i could keep this going like what you would find in a box of cracker jacks party. [inaudible]. and this light falls just right. you can see known as . it's . it's a rudy valentino, that same type. it. [inaudible]. he shows up in a sharp blue suit. it just so . in person with his flushing is to him. his glaring definition of him.

like boiled quail egg. in this avenue . [inaudible]. when he is buttoned up in a jacket. [laughter]. is a description of anything i have ever heard. thank you for all sitting around at to hear that. by this book because it's so relevant to the selection. he could just like replace it with dates and it will be the same thing. i think. ben: thank you carrie for writing your book and jacky thank you for hosting. and everybody buy the book from green light. it's a wonderful store. >> it is not ours it is somebody else's. >> thank you again for a delightful discussion between the two of you. and also is a joy in sharing each other's work. it is really wonderful way to

end the evening. kerri: thank you. >> is a bleak topic. kerri: i am smiling the whole time i don't know what is wrong with me. ben: good night everybody. bye-bye. and thank you. ... ... capital in ideology, then on this board the economics talk about later authors were becca henderson at the boston book festival. >> good afterno,