>> wednesday the us house of representatives and u.s. senate will meet in joint session to tally the results of your total current balance for president and vice president in the 20/20 election. republican lawmakers are expected to use this vote count to object to joe biden's win in numerous swing states. watch live coverage at 1 pm eastern on c-span and also lot at c-span.org or listenon the free c-span radio app . >> joining us to talk about the presidents legacy on immigration is sarah years, policy analyst institute. let's begin with what the president promised to do when he ran and one in 2016 on immigration. >> guest: president trump promised big transformation on immigrationreally that is what he delivered . his immigration agenda touch every part of the immigration system every part really has no change. the southern borders seal off

if not physical wall by bureaucratic rules possible to apply for asylum in the southern border . interiorenforcement is revitalized . the courts are operating faster than ever. legal immigration has become considerably more difficult and humanitarian flows to the united states as refugees are significantly diminished. that was his hope. he viewed both illegal and legal immigration as a net negative the united states wanted to restrict alboth. there are some things that he didn't quite accomplish. for example he promised to do for millions ofunauthorized immigrants . he did not even be born 1 million unauthorized immigrants during his time in office. also even though he made it legal immigration more difficult, the numbers and quite decreased. delivery on a lot of fronts but some of his major goals just didn't quite get there.

>> on the numbers according to your president deportations are at 935,000. apprehensions of the southern border, 2 million. green cards an average of b,1.1 million for covid in obtaining us citizenship under 40,000. why didn't he reach those goals that you want to reach their ? >> guest: on interior enforcement, why those importations were as high as expected i should note at around 9000 deportations during first four years in office he had 1.5 million so it is significantly less when you consider the fact that trump is a president that came in unlike obama wanting to wrap deportations. the biggest issue iofor trump interior enforcement agenda was lack of cooperation from enforcement agencies . cooperation between the local police federal immigration authorities have become really politicized a lot of

jurisdictions resisted working with the administration on interior improvement cut off a major flow for interior enforcement operations for the president. >> host: when it comes to the wall how much as he constructed and had ? >> guest: he constructed a little one in 400 miles of wall . it's hard to say that it's actually been n affected because the flows that we've seen the southern border during trump's time in office are humanitarian ones. they are children and families and asylum-seekers actually want to be caught by border patrol in order to apply for asylum in the united states and recognizing that issue is administration is very effective on cutting off the flow. it is nearly impossible to ask for asylum at the southern border so those numbers as significantly

going down so it hasn't been a long has been a major change, it's been this administrations changes on asylum class as you noted 425 miles of water wall. he is mentally southern border and daca application process, so removal of proceedings and reduced refugee admissions. what was theasylum process like before and how did he change it ? >> guest: when tom came into office apply for asylum at the southern border by approaching a port of entry or even if you entered the us border in between ports of entry and were rycaught by border control you can apply for asylum. you were given a preliminary interview if you pass that and you were permitted to go into immigration court system where you apply for asylum. right now, that process really doesn't exist. at the beginning of the pandemic the director of the cdc issued an order saying a

unauthorized arrival would be immediately expelled from the country, even asylum-seekers so right now if you are ht caught for example in between ports of entry even if you intend to apply for asylum or are fleeing persecution immediately pushed out of the country . nationals pushed back to mexico and others are discreetly deported back to their home country . >> host: we want to invite her viewers to join in. stockpiling in now and we will get your thoughts in a minute. sarah pierce, what is the daca program and where does it stand? >> guest: daca stands for deferred action for childhood arrivals, it's a program created under president obama to offer to individuals brought to the united states as children now have no lawful status in the united states so if applicant qualifies, they receive work authorization when the

temporary permit is not to be deported from thecountry, there's no major benefits other than that . can also seek authorization to travel outside of the united states. and prior to 2017 president trump issued an order to unwind daca, essentially ended. that effort was quickly caught up in court system and so daca have been kept in place but only for people who had before december 2017. any of the tens of thousands of people who newly qualified for daca since 2017 cannot apply under the current structure. recently, the president's efforts ran into even more corporals as the supreme court officially said that the way the president abwent about ending daca was improper and more recently a federal said the administration needed to reinstate daca in total so as of right now ryou applicants

can finally apply to daca but there was a good 30 year tranny in there in which they were not able topresident trump . >> the status of family separation, we heard a lot of .t >> guest: during the summer of 2018, the administration was seeing significantly rising numbers of the southern border and they were desperately going through different policies would deter new arrivals at the southern border and they chose really the most draconian you could, family separation in which on mass and were separating parents from their childrenat the southern border . there was significant public outcry from this in june 2018 president trump issued an executive order officially and his family separation though since then the oradministration can still separate families only for cause border patrol

identifies a particular need are still expected to do so. it's still ongoing but lyit's happening at significantly lower rates than it was during the summer of 2018 in which was happening on mass. the effort to reunite thousands of parents who had been separated from their children have been ongoing since then. there was an initial group that were identified during or after the summer of 2018 who mostly have been reunified but then it came to the federal courts attention there were actually a significant number of children who were separated before that initial efforts to reunite them with their parents are still ongoing. >> host: migration policy institute says there are possible actions by incoming by administration on immigration which included and construction of the

southwest for all, reinstate the daca program, raise limits on number of refugees and were immigration. let's see what our viewers have to say. sean institute, republican, morning. >> caller: i think they need to take hold of whatthey're doing and exit . there's all these families, it's just unspeakable if you ask me . >> host: i'm going to leave it there because you got to turn down the television . talk to your phone, goes for all the other colors as well. i don't know if you was talking about a comprehensive approach . has been debated over the years in washington. what's the likelihood that happens in a biden administration ? >> guest: it's extraordinary, the president has promised to deliver to congress a

comprehensive bill would include a pathway to citizenship for 11 million il unauthorized immigrants in the country and he promised to deliver i was quickly in the first hundred days. this is a pretty extraordinary congress because congress has really struggled with comprehensive immigration reform or really anyimmigration reform . but in perspective we haven't had legislation changing the way legal flows come into the country. significant legislation since 1990 so we have this extremely outdated immigration system what is the likelihood that i would be taken up by congress, there's a lot of skepticism about whether or not it will be successful r. a lot of it probably depends on who controls the senate and congress's appetite for immigration reform right now. considering there's a lot else going on with the country i'm a little doubtful it will be taken up i think it's promising that he promised such a significant action so earlyon .

>> tony in greenville, independent. tony, good morning. >> caller: happy new year to you and c-span. >> host: larry and canton massachusetts, republican. >> caller: good morning. i want to say a lot of things that trump said i do not agree with on with him on immigration. i'm a black mail. no one got hurt more by immigration than black americans . and daca, their mamas who brought them here are still illegal. they're illegal so again, citizenship i'm with trump on as well as immigration. no one's going to hurt more by immigration americans or blacks . and we should really look at

who's been impacted by this policy. so i think i don't agree with everything. immigration agree on. >> caller: >> host: research on that and do you show them what color issaying ? >> guest: larry is bringing up the point that one unique thing about president trump is he views not only illegal but illegal immigration as a net negative to the united states his messaging was significantly directed at minority communities and any potential damage they received from immigration. significant economic studies show immigration as a whole, illegal immigration is a net positive for the united states, grows our economy . at in ways you can't measure it contributes to our society and culture and community.

but it is true that in the short term, certain working-class or lower skilled jobs do tend, does tend to depress wages build it. even though in the long term immigration benefitseveryone . so it's important for government to develop immigration policy addressed the issue . immigration on all is good for society we should have immigration but we should policies that address any depression of anyone's wages in the short-term . >> host: valley in new york, democratic caller. >> caller: good morning sarah. i don't think there's anybody who doesn't think we need immigration reform. i look at someone who's from republican, my grandparents were immigrants . legal immigration, it is hard to become a citizen.

he pays taxes, owns two small vehicles and it has been a scary time or anyone in this country and a lot of this is stephen miller it's just been a lot of poison in the air area i don't think, i really ailike you to talk about. how does it affect the ipeople ? sorry, i'm going to sign off. i just think there's a lot of ugliness out there and people should open their hearts a little bit more. after the new year. >> host: sarah pierce. >> guest: i'm happy you brought that up as it has been a very anxiety producing four years for both legal and illegal immigrants in the country because the president had the. >> host: legal immigration is a problem for the united states. a litany of policies came down that made legal immigration significantly more difficult made life more

uncomfortable forillegal immigrants already in the united states . scrutiny of any applications were increased and in the past where the us immigration agency would defer to prior approval for people who were trying to access the united states, now that deference is gone so there's even ovincreased scrutiny around people trying to renew their status even if they've been in the united states for a significant amount of time and there's just significantly more venting going on in any type of application so even before president trump took office because we have such a significant difficult immigration system was quite difficult to immigrate to the united states, difficult to become a citizen in the united states now the president and his administration have an already different, difficult bureaucratic maze is the immigration system. >> host: all in kansas city, independent. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. the past couple of colors to

kind of follow up into what they were saying, as an african-american male, i'm just on the opposite side of the general a few minutes ago because he's kind of accepted the rhetoric that is put forth from stephen miller kind of voices that are coming out of this administration. immigrants come into america from the south of the border are taking jobs specifically from minorities. it's more like what that study shows. initially it looks like that, but in the long term is not. the job that they're taking or the jobs that they are filling are as roofers or as carpenters and concrete industries. those aren't areas of industries that black americans were working in if

you listen to the rhetoric, the trump administration's policies are a great friend to blackamerica . donald trump stood at mount rushmore used the words of martin luther king to segue into praise of manifest destiny. you have to listen to the entire rhetoric stto understand what they're saying. >> host: i will have sarah pierce choking, your thoughts . >> guest: all brings up a couple important things. there was a huge rhetoric campaign visit menstruation on immigration. i don't think we've seen anything like it before. yet menstruation use their resources to elevate one off cases of committing crimes in the united states even though we know as a whole immigrants: cries must operate in us nationals. his administration was everything they could to show

immigrants committing crime, to paint immigrants as a public security threat to the united states. that really then bolstered the immigration agenda and what they were trying to accomplish immigration all is right immigrants largely fill complementary positions to the united states. they felt jobs that us nationals are not taking a bolster our economy in that respect as well. >> how far did the president-based system, called build america ?at >> guest: until the pandemic, not far. there's not a lot. president has extraordinary powers on immigration there's not a lot you can do to radically reshape the legal immigration system is who is legally coming to the united states without working with congress. president trump itmade some odd

testify to work with congress during his time in office. both the house and senate made significant progress working towards daca were dreamers at the president trying to insert his priorities into those negotiations have significantly failed and in the background his administration was also working on a larger immigration bill they never ended up puttingforward . so those efforts were largely failed. but then once the pandemic happened, you have a president who is existing in this extraordinary tranny time and crisis such as this gives the president more authority so easy 2 proclamations. one on my second one june 22. neither got a lot of attention but they are reshaping was coming into the united states.

one of the proclamations ckblocks temporary workers coming into the united states reshape who is emigrating. so is coming beginning green cards into the united states. proclamation is blocking a significant number of family-based immigrants actually ends up favoring employment-based immigrants so it's not quite based or plant-based system president had tried to set forward but was proclamations alone are already significantly reshaping was coming into the united states even in the short amount of time and place. >> host: watching in louisiana a republican, go ahead with your comments. >> caller: trump has been trying to run this country and the day after he'selected , maxine waters is out there saying impeach, impeach. this man was already trying to do his work and behind his back, the fbi had the whole

crew were already trying to push him out. add on immigration, he was right. we don't know who's coming in . is that their kid? these people have no vaccinations whatsoever. we don't know what they're bringing . we don't know what diseases are carrying or if they are or what their views. also we are having all the druglords coming through. >> host: sarah pierce, what kind immigrants are trying to come to the united states. >> guest: first to her first point on president, being obstructed from what he's wanted to accomplish in office, i can't other areas

but for immigration that's certainlythnot true . this trend in time has been an extraordinary one for immigration. we've never seen a president be so active on immigration. asthe migration policy institute we published report, want for executive actions this administration has made immigration so they certainly utwere able to push forward their immigration agenda if nothing else. at on who is coming to the united states we have significant varying in place regarding immigrants coming into the united states, even those that cross at the southernborder . as far as their health or vaccination goes, everyone who immigrants to the united states has to be examined by a doctor that's been certified by the government federal government so that's not something we're very concerned about.

we immigrants an extraordinary amount before they can come to the united states before they can get any sort of immigration benefits. >> host: ruffino and nebraska, democratic caller. >> caller: good morning. i was an immigration lawyer but i lost my license here in oman nebraska. and i mostly dealt with. [inaudible] cases and i want a few mexican asylum cases and the state are. >> host: because they considered mexicans not eligible and because i was legal and i have been running them i continue doing them but they my license mexicans don't deserve asylum. i run asylum-seekers from

mexico so what you mean but that was 15 years ago, 2004 and i will call memories of a disbarred immigration lawyer under my grandfather's name. i'm telling my story because in nebraska because it's a date and there's a lot of people here and people of color coming slinto the state, but i noticed when i was an immigration lawyer first in the 90s there were actually some humanitarian devices to help people but as time went on, even in the bush administration we were thinking because he was pro-immigration there may be a chance to help people in the process but because of that effort everythingjust

change . the whole outlook on the immigrant population coming through was like demonize it just kept getting worse and worse. >> host: let's have sarah pierce weigh in on. >> guest: i completely agree with that about humanitarian benefits being restricted over time. any migrants who are being deported from the interior of the united states or even those who are arriving at our borders or seeking asylum, all placed into our immigration court system where they go before an immigration judge they argue for why they should stay in the united states. immigration judges is to have more discretion that i have today. that has been over a tray of tecate discussion has gone away to the point where even

if they see a very sympathetic case believe merits staying in the united states, that individual doesn't fit in a very specific definition of asylum which by the way has been extremely narrow during the course of the trump administration, individual doesn't fit into that very specific benefit, they're going to be issued a deportation order which is why during the trump administration not only did we see significant increase in the number of completed immigration court cases, we see a significant increase, and even higher increase in the number of deportations issued. >> let's go to ed in pleasant valley new york, republican . >> caller: good morning. a couple of questions for you. i'm not anti-immigration. i worked in higher education place back in the early 2000. and we had a major hiring process.

they told us this was you hiring, it was everybody but lights, we hired around thirtysomething people, all different levels from serial labor. about six months later maybe i union officer got called in . we've got a problem., was the new personnel director about all these social security numbers werenot right . they had a problem, the union didn't have a problem online was most people go, some got saved, some green cards to this day i'm friends with two brothers came into this country . back in the early 90s. went to a lawyer in california, $10,000. each of them paid to get papers that they thought were illegal. this is one of the problems is going on in this country is there's so many aspects of how they get here what they're given some really believe that they are

citizens and are not online is we have to straighten out our immigration. .i feel for everybody wants to get here we have a lot of y people in this country suffering right now and we're going to take on more? i told and i told this country, go to your local social services office monday sit there and see what happens. it's unbelievable. i found all in the middle of the street one day and there were three different identification cards for one individual from three different states. pennsylvania, new york illinois. we don't know whothese people are . three different states and three different names with the same picture on theid . thwe really got a problem in this country and i'm not against it .n the people i know that came here are great people but we have americans that aren't working what are we going to do with more people at this point inthis country right now ? >> ..

it can, you could end up in deportation proceedings because he thought were following the legal process from someone who presented themselves as a rightful immigration attorney and that is a huge issue and the immigration system is so restrictive and confusing where it fosters this type of fraud going on and can be a big problem. letoday where people think they are lawful immigrants and aren't so that's a huge problem and it's an issue that the

11 million unauthorized individuals in the united states and the majority of them, more than 50% have been living in the united states for more than ten years and it's incredible that one of the most valid nations on the planets and we can't just identify 11 million individuals in the united states and give them lawful status, recognize that they are working in the united states and rectified this wrong. >> host: rosetta, democratic color, virginia. >> caller: i was calling concerning president trump. the man said about [inaudible] trump is there and when he get up and sell these things he did he's trying to corrupt the black man's mind and some of us don't have no better sense in letting him do this. we need to get rid of trump in the united states i'm 84 years

old and the united states where i was young but in that sense trump got worse than that and [inaudible] >> host: let me go to evan in indiana, independent. hello, evan. >> caller: anyway, i'm unusual here in the libertarian and i've been opposed to b immigration er since i learned about it as a sophomore in union college and i'm 82 years old. >> host: okay. >> caller: i don't think we ought to have an immigration law at all. i think we ought to have careful

of protecting our borders as people come in but i think everybody in the world comes here because they think it is better here. my ancestors on my mother side came in the 1740s unfortunately he was an indentured servant but he was white because everyone was african, real africans, at that point. he got away. most of the people i talked to don't have roots like that. might webster roots go back to the 17th century. >> host: evan, what are you saying? there shouldn't be immigrationr. >> caller: we got to abolish immigration law that we have. i think it's against any principal of the united states is founded on. >> host: sarah, any thoughts?re

>> guest: i heartily disagree with evan. i think the united states is are nation of immigrants so the principal we were founded on embraces immigration as we have throughout the u.s. history and if you want to approach it more academically as i said earlier there are rigorous economic studies that show immigration is a hugedi improvement for our country and in particular the united states and that it grows our economy in addition to those things you can't measure and the way it contributes culturally and to our society on the grounds and there is the fact the united states is an aging economy and we need immigration and we need workers otherwise we are going to have big problems in the future with an unequal society and it significantly aged society but i think that. >> we take you now live to the state capital in bismarck were governor doug burgum state of the state add