by the way they never want to acknowledge how smart donald trump is. they always say he's got great instincts, i love that idea. he's got great judgment he's a great leader, he is smart. and he cares about this country. >> to express this program visit our website book tv.cord click on the afterward tabs defined lou dobbs interview and other previous episodes of the program. >> hey everyone thanks for joining us this evening. i am delighted you have done so. i'm of the washington library center for digital history. i'm pleased at what while over the next hour will have the opportunity to learn more on james monroe, the nation's fist president and a member of the so-called virginia dynasty that dominated american politics in the american revolution well into the 19th century in a few moments i'll be talking with historian tim mcgrath about his book james

monroe a life which you can see here. but first we have very special guest to introduce us to highlands, the place of james monroe, his family and his enslaved people call home. doctor sara von harper is executive director of james melo highland and research director of anthropology at the college of william and mary preach is also seasoned veterans of numerous archaeological expeditions in the united states and europe including eight neighboring monticello and codirector of the anglo american pompeii project the first team reopened to research in the 1990s which we should totally do a live stream about sometime in the future. doctor von harper thanks for joining us this evening. >> thanks the pleasure to be here thanks for having me. >> is our pleasure indeed. can ask of things are today? >> forget thank you pretty open to the public in august in heaven outdoors only

experience right now which seems to be a welcome thing for people to do, the public is glad to be back learning about history, being outside, we've got a wide open space in our site so people can come and explore with plenty of space between people and be there safely pizza we feel fortunate about that right now. >> that is terrific for thought we might start by getting a little bit of groundwork underneath our feet. for those in the audience who may be unfamiliar with james monroe highland to the estate, could you give us a brief overview of that place? >> yes absolutely dilate delighted to do so. highland is the property that monroe bought and 1793 pre-he did so at the urging of his friend and mentor thomas jefferson. jefferson's monticello was adjacent at the time for now they share a tiny corner of adjacent properties. we're about a mile and half past monticello. monroe moved into the house, he moved into the house and

1799. it was a governor's house. there's a lot of conversation about being small, he himself referred to as a cabin castle. it was a lot of false modesty. and the most interesting thing is the story of the site hadn't really been sorted out until fairly recently. and you see on our screen here, this yellow house, on the razor to story structure that some 1870 which is well past monroe. the little white portion on the left we now know was when rose president trump guest house. we don't 1818 he had to enslaved a man named peter mallory and george williams construct this house and he wrote about it. but for years and years it was misunderstood as a remnant wing of the main house.

turns out the main house was completely destroyed by fire. we think probably right around the beginning of the year 1830. and oddly enough there is nothing that we can find written about from contemporary sources. you think how popular monroe was and is still living at that time there would've been a lot of press but the former president house. he'd moved by then to oak hill. we have not found any newspaper accounts or things specifically written about the house monroe built having burned. it's fascinating. good sorry. >> is going to ask you what he think explains that absence of a documented record? that's profound. >> guest: that is profound peter research name allison bell did some loose paper researching in 1999. i picked up the research about 15 years later, we had a great

intern go after the same information. i thought all of the digitization that it happened in the 15 years we should be able to find it, right? and nothing. and so other research have since pulled up the great sleuth maranda burnett pulled up a great letter, the later owner to neighbor higginbotham talked about after the fire. he was writing earlier in the year 1830 so that could happen. i have firm belief that someday, somebody's going to come up to probably giving a talk somewhere or sitting in a library or something somebody is going to walk up and say you know, here is this newspaper article, i found it back in the archives are found in my uncles attic or something. somebody's going to find that someday, there's got to be something we just haven't found yet. something we don't take into

account is how much variety there is, how much variability there is what got recorded, what didn't, what newspapers got preserved and what ones didn't. it's got to be out there. >> thank you. what's recorded seems it's in the ground you are headed archaeological expedition interpreting that kenny tells about the recent archaeological work is reshaping everything we know. >> guest: glad too. it's clear something was missing from the landscape, from the combination of documentary sources and from the aboveground architectural evidence. it's clear he did not have the whole story. some archaeology had been done when william and mary first acquired the property which was in 1974. so for a few years in the 1970s there some good work done. not quite conclusive.

should dig in a few more places. nobody really pick that up again until after i got there. this doesn't quite make sense. dig a little deeper as we say. and started digging, we encircled that structure that we saw the yellow house with the white house with a peace attached to it and dug all around and circled it. eventually ended on fighting the debris in front of the 1870 house we excavated further and recognized as pretty well matching the insurance documents that monroe had drawn out in 1800, 1809. it's a good well-preserved foundation wall on the right if you point with the trowel a

significant patch of charcoal with evidence of the burning of the house. remarkably preserved but incredibly close to the surface. loss, down, presidents home which was very odd. continue to live your on and off come eventually spent more time at oak hill loudoun county. and then of course the property was sold including the house area in 1826 by the bank of the united states and the land that went with it. i've a couple more images of the glad to show you respect yes please. so in so we understand pretty well the layout of the house. i mentioned the cabin castle, monroe was not on and vicious.

and he was not on worldly per he is quite sophisticated and certainly tim will get to this later. but you know, i think he kind of sold him self short and shame us for many years, we bought it. i don't know really think misunderstanding his house was a part of it. i was very appropriate for the governor of virginia, which he moved to late in the year in 1799. it was appropriate and it was large of his note monticello did not even compare to later house at oak hill. okay can we move on a little? currently in pandemic time this image is clearly from before pandemic there are no masks.

the outdoor visits and showing people's understanding how the fight works in the december version all the battle entrenched by conversations. and so now we interpret this as the 1818 presidential guesthouse. and certainly the activity for guests of personal and political during that period >> so we have a much greater understanding with the yellow house from 1870 still there but probably covers a portion of the main house from 1799. but certainly does not obscure it an entirely impact archaeological remains. as soon as it is safe to do so , we'll use the small amount of grant money we have available to us. we are grateful recipients to one of the inaugural grants

from the archaeological institute of america. the neh joint program this year. and had to be deferred because of the pandemic. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] have a lot to still explore. really an amazing right now. there's still so much for us to discover. i know stay tuned there's a lot left. soon we look forward to it thanks much for legs and ground workforce. and i should note will see in the third act of today's program. there folks out there watching us live went ask you questions , we asked them too post those questions in the comments for

facebook, youtuber twitter. because they would love an opportunity to talk with you can just little bit. sara so much. >> guest: thank you see you shortly. sue but all right let's learn more about james monroe himself. as i mentioned earlier i guess tonight is tim mcgrath. he is a two time winner of the commodore john barry book award for american literature for his books john barry in american hero the age of sale give me a fast ship. the continental navy and also run the samuel elson for literature present mentioned earlier he's the author of the new book james monroe life published by dutton penguin. it's a big book but it's a leasing placing a bookshelf it's a delightful read. tim, i'm delighted to welcome each of the program. >> thanks so much for having me into the staff at mount vernon as well. >> it's great to see him excited to talk about all things monroe this evening.

jimbo as we call him around the office. let's start here you've written to very important books about naval history of the american revolution and the early republic. so why james monroe? back of editor jim howard was looking to do a book and let's go past naval history he says pick a president. look back and forth in harry truman's name came up. and then i brought james monroe up. and he said why? in 77 years old is my favorite president mick taken to valley forge was not far from where i live in grew up. the guide there was talking about obviously george washington, he also got into, he said there's other people that were here too. and with another president,

james monroe contacted at his being wounded at trenton and then coming to valley forge and serving made me want to learn more. a kids book about monroe in the souvenir shop and off we went. i did not know enough about james monroe to hurt me we got started with this. i thought that i knew what a history major would know. but the more we got into it, just became how are people missing this? there's a trinity of experts and their teams in virginia was. washington is now running the museums for mary washington and his wonderful team, dan creston who devoted pretty much as adult life to assembling the papers of james

monroe. he is since retired and that's been wonderful there. last but certainly not least, her work and her staff at highland have been immensely helpful. sarah's taken many a late night call about this or that. spent a remarkable story most americans might note monroe gives a short sketch of his life get to know little better we can diving after that. i'll do my best. he's a son of a farmer and a carpenter common artisan, the oldest of three children pretty and older sister.

his parents both died premature rescued by his uncle joseph jones lawyer, judge house of burgesses in a crony of washington's. it was jones who made sure he went to william and mary. he was there when the revolution broke out and immediately got involved prior to that with the political activities of the rebellious colonists. then join the continental navy with the third virginia and was made a lieutenant among the other officers was an old schoolmate of his from his younger days, john marshall. the third virginia came up to new york right at the end of the battle of brookland and a day or so after he arrived was the battle of kip survey ralph family lost his temper within

a day or so after that the third virginia found themselves in a pretty large skirmish at harlem heights that's where monroe god's baptism by fire he was a rifleman schmidt he was firing a weapon of much more accuracy than a musket. it took more time to load which made it difficult. and then he marched in a retreat to new jersey. he had a wonderful passage at one point he is a lieutenant, he's given the daily assignment one day to see how many men we have left. he writes down less than 3003 but at the same time he talks about seeing washington and talks about a deployment so dignified so humble that it never left his mind. he is one of the two officers that volunteered to crush the

delaware hours before washington and the rest of the army did. helped to lead a skirmish line into trenton. at the battle he was severely wounded there is a musket ball severed an artery and a doctor he picked up on the way the man was convinced, they were stealing his livestock once he saw they were americans he said i'll come with you maybe i can help somebody and literally save monroe's life. he later serves a brandy wine after the winter at valley forge where he was an aide to lord sterling. and after that he is a little frustrated for he's looking to be moved further and tries to advance his career for this only so much room for virginia officers in the continental army. he returns to virginia to get a colonel see in the militia.

also to study law under thomas jefferson which is no event education for he's a state assemblyman for virginia. he becomes a congressman at 25, senator in the articles event confederation government , just barely in his 30s. and he realizes we need a strong government. but there is not one. and when he's not picks to go to the constitutional convention later at the virginia ratifying convention, patrick henry sees him as a good front man. young guy, good looking, war hero. he is there he against the constitution until it has the bill of rights. later he is asked by washington while he is a senator to serve his country

go to france and serve as the minister at the very tail end of the reign of terror. washington believes he is sending him very pronounced file to france will he's sending john jay to negotiate the jay treaty. that winds up creating a serious rupture between washington and monroe. "after words" when he returns he has been recalls and river while arrives back in adams time, his friend madison and jefferson get him elected to governor. and after that they send him -- mike jeffress or sends them to deal on the louisiana purchase. he spends several years on diplomatic missions to spain and is a minister to england. and as recalled by secretary of state madison.

and again has a year or two of privacy then becomes governor again. then serves as madison's secretary of state. he is also made the secretary of war, he holds both positions after washington is burnt for a while. and then selected to the presidency. >> he holds every position someone could ever hope to hold from the american revolution into the early republic. becky pretty much held more positions elected and appointed than any other president in our history. becky already mentioned jefferson and madison. one of the things it really struck me as i was reading your book is the ways in which you juxtapose these men. in several places you'd note that jefferson has a deep philosophical mind, madison is a brilliant legal theorist and lawyer. but monroe in your estimation

had a shrewd sound judgment that served him well through out the course of his life. i'm kind of wondering, how does that observation help us to understand who monroe was and how he understood himself within the pantheon of the founding generation? suspect that the great question but if your two best friends are jefferson and madison you are really going to be accused of being the brightest guy in the room. [laughter] but there was a young lawyer, francis gilmore on 1815 -- 1816 he went to monticello at a time when jefferson was hosting madison and monroe and watch them observe their conversations during the day. and at the end in his notes he writes that jefferson has the most learning, madison the most brilliancy and monroe the best judgment. and that is really his strongest suit.

he has impeccable judgment almost all the time throughout his public life. and it's not a comment to share by a young virginia lawyer, john quincy adams came to believe that is monroe secretary of state, john calhoun who is a secretary of war is not yet a poster child for proslavery issues, made the same comments. and in cabinet meetings he seemed to exhaust his cabinet by listening. john quincy adams notes, we mind to even one of president kennedy's advisors after he died that said they were discussing issue in the cabinet room the last person you wanted to be was the first person kennedy turned to and said what do you think? monroe actually had a cabinet that rivals washington's and having quincy adams, calhoun, william crawford was a very

good secretary of treasury is not a good loyalist to monroe. he really made the most of making good judgments, picking good people. he was very deliberate. the monroe doctrine may be the best example. no sooner elected president and congress is pushing, especially henry clay to get the united states to recognize the new south american latin american republics. monroe takes his time for he waits until the moment is just right where he believes the country is strong enough on its own and has developed enough of a good relationship with great britain and thereby british navy to make that announcement. >> or the good examples of his judgment that comes through the book is his choice of life partner in elizabeth, his wife. he was clear she was very essential to both his personal life but his political life. can you give us a sense of who

elizabeth was of the role she played both the national and the international stage? >> of my god sure i would be happy to that's a great question. monroe marries up. he meets her in new york while the american government -- in fact they'd written about monroe the song what about about the cartwright sisters of the skyler sisters. she is among a true of very beautiful young ladies are also very smart. the father was a successful merchant that live near wall street. in about ten years younger than monroe. in fact a lot of elizabeth's friends thought he was beneath her. but something clicked with them. and it really is one of the great love affairs of presidential history.

he has utterly devoted to elizabethan his children. i think one of the things that sold me doing the research, while they were in paris had relatively just arrived, there were two people languishing in friendship regions. one is thomas paine who monroe can pretty open about trying to get out of -- from behind bars. the other is adrienne latvian's, marquis is already in a prison in austria. she is already lost her mother and her sisters to the guillotine. and monroe had befriended latvian. they were on the same battlefield at birmingham hill in the battle of brandywine. they were friends and correspondent for years. monroe just doesn't see how he can do anything overt to get adrienne freed. but elizabeth figures it out.

one morning she has their carriage all cleaned up and dresses in her finest clothes hanging carrying a basket with some bread and some food and some wine has herself driven to the prison a 400-year-old hotel that had been converted by robespierre because they ran out of jail cells. in adrienne, when she hears turnkey coming up the steps she thanks this is that's our time and is almost giddy with excitement when she finds out elizabeth is there to have a conversation and open things up. now within a few weeks gets adrienne release and then monroe takes it upon himself to help her and her son, george washington latvian safely out of france. adrienne goes to austria and winds up immediately being imprisoned with her husband bentley she is with her husband. in washington sends their son to his namesake to george

washington. but that kind of bravery is wonderful to read about. monroe's words writes in his autobiography about how we did this. very talented and very quiet. she is almost the jacqueline kennedy of the founding first ladies. she is a bit regal. she had think is ms. represented by some as aloof. it's the case she has an old-fashioned politeness and she sought that. >> we can talk to submit about the contrast between the madison administration of the ways they entertained. because dolley madison for example was a very powerful figure in d.c. politics. there followed by james and elizabeth, how did their time in france shaped their ways that they create a small republican court in the washington and that.

>> and think they monroe's are both very influenced in france. not just by thinking but also by furniture. they bought furniture that they actually took to the white house after it was reopened. some of that is still there today. in fact jacqueline kennedy made a point of making sure some of those pieces were refinished and put on display. but their approach to entertainment was very different. let's face it, how are you going to follow dolley madison? it is no wonder that his one presidential opponent said i could beat him by just cannot beat her. just this remarkable lady. and they were very good friends. madison and monroe had been good friends since the end of the revolution.

and dolley and elizabeth struck up a very nice friendship there. exchanging fruits and some meats and here's some furniture now that you got married and moved down to montpelier. james and elizabeth as newlyweds that one of monroe's sisters called wild. so madison proves he's one hell of a legislature. he understands what he writes a letter to the monroe's while they are in france and says you know, would you please send us some furniture and china or things like that. and he does say we would appreciate it if elizabeth did most of the work. it almost reads like that line in jaws in the first five minutes or he says to his assistant, let polly do the

printing. he feels if he could not succeed at it neither could his friend. [laughter] >> this is a time in the audience you have time to as tim questions here in the final part of the program. simply do post those on facebook, youtube and twitter. you know tim, like most virginians like washington, jefferson, madison and like many americans monroe's life was deeply intertwined with slavery. what can you tell us about that relationship? beckett certain national black eye that is no pun intended. he is like jefferson and like a medicine as examples. someone who rails against slavery. and is constantly arguing about it. it's just not any good. but does not free any of his enslaved person until his on

his deathbed ironically on the independence day that he dies. he is also as governor of virginia, he's presiding over the state when gabriel's rebellion occurs. this remarkable man born during the revolution who has the talents of a blacksmith so his owner allows him to work in richmond and go to other plantations. and having been captured or taken by the officials for being involved in stealing of a pagan and getting in a fight with the next door plantation overseers he is branded. at this point he's looking to somehow there should be some revenge here. and underneath the noses of white virginians, he is literally beating with short swords priest travels allowed to set up a network, sheer

blisters knows especially if there virginians, of slaves and his goal is they'll kidnap governor monroe. they will kill his owner and a couple of others. what they want to do is negotiate with governor monroe we will exchange them for our freedom. and then he intends to remain in virginia. the ninth of the rebellion, eight horrendous thunderstorm occurs in two of the spotters lose their nerve rat him out. once the ring leaders are caught the executions begin. monroe writes a passage this is an 1800, to his mentor and best friend jefferson talking about the weight this is on him. and it is literally, it's almost a combination early abraham lincoln, pontius pilot and hamlet.

one of his last sentences is where stay the hand of the executioner? jefferson writes back immediately where to stay the hand of the executioner is a good question. but later in his letter he said it should be soon because he became hanging the enslaved are going to start costing me votes in the north. they talk about possibilities of releasing the enslaved rebels to what would be basically indian territory or oklahoma, somewhere far out west and that doesn't work. when monroe is the ambassador to great britain he starts up a friendship with william wilberforce was a driving force to the slave trade in great britain. there's a wonderful movie about him a few years ago. they neglect to mention is not advocating slavery but his attitude towards war in london is right out of charles

dickens ebenezer screws. dan preston from mary washington at one point said in monroe's mind history raised political theory as he put it, eventually emancipation should be colonization and it becomes one of the driving forces of the american colonization society has monroe being the name for liberia. he's constantly searching to come to grips with this. but at the same time the credit here goes to sara. when i asked her this question what she had you have to keep in mind monroe needed money. he sold his slave persons. and when monroe had money he bought them. one of the enslaved persons he purchased right before he went to france with sally hemmings sister. and he writes about her and it is believed her husband was

already someone monroe owned and her children. at one point he writes, the care for children they love them they are very good. they are basically on the housekeeping side of slavery. but he said there costing me money. joseph jones writes to monroe that she has died, he is genuinely saddened by. but again it's the thing we just can't get our hands around is that these men who spoke of freedom. in one of monroe's writers stirring the rebellion i'm paraphrasing it saying these men were fighting for what i wanted. so how do i distance myself from that when it is by someone of color? and never comes up with the answer. obviously. >> host: he's part of the last of the generation is trying to find out is some kind of

solution to slavery in north america to what they see as the problem with slavery and the threat of slavery. in one of the solutions of courses you've noted is american colonization. were going to export people who are americans who don't want to leave. now they're going to go theoretically to liberia. of course after he dies that's when you start to see the transition from not necessary evil to positive it certainly. i think that does get us to washington actually. monroe has a complicated relationship with slavery, washington of course, manure has a complicated relationship with washington himself. these two men's relationship in and the revolution. when it actually outlasts washington's death in 1799. what should we know about their connection?

rebecca think washington was certainly impressed with monroe's bravery in trenton. like jefferson and madison is constantly land poor and almost poverty stricken the end of his life. when monroe and some of the other men in williamsburg not say we won't take any either. lewdly unaware the reimbursing for at least his expenses. never sees penny first serves in the continental army. and after trenton serves as an aid to lord sterling is one of washington's best journals. those of you looking at the portrait here in the battle of

trenton way off in the back by the horses you can see on the ground a wounded james monroe. washington writes a really terrific letter of reference to monroe when monroe has decided to return to virginia. there is a real admiration going back and forth. when monroe has married elizabeth one turn of returning back to recess when monroe buys a chariot which is not the charleston hasn't been her version. it has a writing box and room for two passengers in the back and whatever they have. elizabeth is extremely pregnant. bouncing down the country roads coming down south to virginia, rutted roads and

madison said oh this person can't speak for a lab he shout if he needed to. sure he and monroe are talking politics all the way down with the occasional are you okay there, liz from them. but when they arrived at mount vernon and the thing i loved about this is martha washington is not there, it is george washington who sees all of this and immediately has elizabeth give him one of the best bedrooms in mount vernon and draws a bath for her to be in complete comfort when you hungry for? what would you like? he is the consummate host and he's able to give elizabeth finally a good night sleep instead of some inner tavern while the three of them can talk politics. : : :

>> as part of being about republican, they start to drift away and nothing tears are a part further than washington's minister. it is not so much stockholm syndrome from being there so long, she really believes in france and he really does not like great britain, washington doesn't do many favors and that he doesn't have john jay communicate with him about this treaty that the french he knew were not going to like but nobody tells munro anything. and john gave john trouble an assignment of how it works in the capital to memorize the jay treaty and they go to monroe and say all recited for you but i

will not give you copy and munro widely says i don't want to hear it and he passes it along to a new england fellow at munro and trimble can't wait, this is his friends countrymen's time and recites the whole thing to this fellow so munro can find out, he is furious but at the same time he feels washington is undermining him undermining him with other politicos and he gets caught and when he's brought back in disgrace under adams administration secretary of state who was no fan of munro's, monro is nursing a grudge and he writes a 400 page book with an extremely long title but it begins with a view of executive and the aversion of his

relationship with washington and what happened in france, folks watching this are looking at washington's copy and if you look along the side in the bottom you can see the handwritten scribblings of a very angry george washington and in fact they got a kick out of putting them next to each other in the book at one point munro writes i was invited by the president to except the office of the minister and washington's comments after several attempts failed a more eligible character and i did not perceive how the declaration of independence applied at the time with the jay treaty negotiations and washington's comments are none are so double than those who will not perceive, it goes on and on like that if this is done right now, i think there would be the initial wtf along the pages with how angry washington was about this. >> as folks may no washington

was not somebody who wrote in the books, he did not do it was very rare if he were one or two words, this is guns blazing and can we backup a little bit, i want to know why washington sends munro to france in the first place, the mid-1790s pretty well known partisan of what we short handily call the republican party but the democratic -- republican, the washington a administration is trying to avoid war with france and britain why send munro to france a more committed federalism. >> he had a commendable affair and all governor mars did was worse in the relationship between revolutionary france and the united states, the french could not stand them and outside of their food and wine morris

could not stand the french and he was creating quite a stir and washington had to recall him his first pick to the minister was madison who turned him down he reached out to robert livingston in new york and he turned him down so monroe was his third pick and initially he would've had to pick this up for what monroe did for him, he immediately won the french over despite having his bags read him sacked and what he brought aboard were vanished on the dock as soon as he got there, people were still starving and revolutionary paris but he really does his best to put the best foot forward and try to maintain a relationship with an unstable country as it was in western europe.

but his comments in his approach and hamilton is openly working to get monroe recalled and finally when they catch one of the letters that he has written that comes into pickering's hands, there is the thing to end it. it really is a break they have already had a testy relationship, monroe while in congress and the senate about his remorse and at one point they're talking about maybe sending him to be the ambassador of england and monroe said she should be asking the senate for their advice and consent of who they're going to pick in washington writes a polite version of what i want your advice i will ask for. so there really has been that breach in monroe's book to help with that.

but ironically a couple of years after the book when monroe is elected to the governorship of virginia in december 1799 he writes a letter to madison saying i was wanting to have it with washington i looked up to this man and we all looked up to this man and maybe if i post an article in the newspaper where i can. the nice things he said about me and i can add my kind feelings about washington maybe we can get this back on board. a couple of days after this letter and as you know i guess around december 13 washington is riding and there's been a storm and it's been very cold and storm in wet rain and ice and snow fourth and he comes into his house shivering and freezing

and i saw a wonderful presentation about this by your colleague samantha snyder at the historical society of pennsylvania, it was marvelous she made you feel like we were there. but he says to the leader, read me the paper while he is shivering and he reads the paper that monroe has been elected governor in washington says come down, since you're not feeling well you should go to bed as we know washington never got out of bed so they never got the chance to make any reunion or come to terms with each other by the time that they died but monroe as partisan as they come as a politician and if he was alive today he would be on fox news or msnbc every morning but he is

growing out of it by the time you secretary of state, but what once he is elected president he abandons for all intensive purposes and all type partisan approach, he will govern like washington where as joe biden just said he will be the president of all americans in the proof in the pudding is his tours and he also picked up from washington the importance of image he is wearing throughout the tours a buff waistcoat and buff colored bridges and is wearing the ball choose and a blue jacket and a hat which the museum still has while he is touring in the counter going crazy, it is like a rockstar tour and he's been vetted by federalist and republican alike in the early people detract from

what he's doing the virginians with the richmond inquire saying he's becoming but it really is a reunification, this is who we are and if federalist newspaper in new england that calls this trip and wound up giving monroe his whole term in office the era of good feeling, that is how successful he was and that you can lay in washington's footsteps. >> that was probably the most remarkable book we know he took a tour after his presidency but to see his choice of replicating the covers in his military uniform he says himself the chief magistrate of the country ought not to be head of the party but a nation itself in the ways he comes full-circle is quite remarkable.

>> it really does it defines monroe in a much finer way than had he not been elected president or if he was elected and kept going with his decades long political beliefs and that scott harris and the james monroe museum the conversation we had after the book because i would've stolen this from him and made the comment with the monroe doctrine back-and-forth that he write it or did john quincy adams right it, did they both right it was a adams idea and there is a lot of quincy adams in their, his famous remark when he gave a fourth of july speech about america she does not go out to find dragons but monroe this is been in monroe's mind to. but as scott put it the monroe

doctrine is washington's farewell address updated to the 1820s and the way that monroe puts it it's kind of funny that george washington first in peace in the hearts of countrymen in the first ghostwriter because he's been dead for 30 years but it really is an extension of washington's beliefs but now they become monroe's and thanks to the document they are pretty much in our country. >> this is been a fantastic discussion and thank you for sharing this with us i think it's time for audience questions why don't we bring back sarah who can help us get questions out well and see what's on the audience's mind. >> stephen floyd the less transparent and his presidential predecessors and many of his successors what makes them so comparatively op, his letters, diaries, et cetera.

tim i will start with you and then tim let's bring you in. >> he might be less opaque because dan's team has not finished putting the papers in the book form, he doesn't write with the skill of jefferson how many people do and he doesn't have the countless diaries that were done at the same time by washington but his papers were accessible, they're everywhere and there in washington university a great many of them online for someone to read and another place to find if you're interested mr. floyd's national archives has a wonderful program called founders online and they have everybody's documents and

papers, monroe may have less than the others because they're still getting these up-to-date and everything else but you can find a wealth of material there in the collections that his team has done were up to volume six or seven and were getting into his first years of his presidency they're just wonderful and the really fascinating and he also destroyed his correspondence with elizabeth which is a total loss but it's obvious from the comments that their friends and people that knew them how much they loved and cared for each other and one last comment his handwriting is terrible. [laughter] when i was doing the book benjamin russian is one of his dearest friends and if you look at benjamin's handwriting and he's the first doctor for the cliché they can't do any

handwriting mine is abysmal, being a left-hander and work its way into his brain but james monroe handwriting is awful and whatever is secretary of writing when elizabeth wrote it and thank god my eyes are saved, that has a lot to do with it. >> joe what are your thoughts with that, the lack of complete publication of monroe's letter starting with some being too many repositories, i'll go back to something i alluded to at the beginning, i think monroe has been misunderstood slightly different than the question of capacity buddies been misunderstood for a lot of reasons henry k adams said some damning things in the 19th century and the misunderstanding

of monroe's property at highland has figured into it, no matter what even if you thought the little standing house was a wing of a larger main house you look at that little house and you said he's not ambitious he's not sophisticated this is not a worldly man and i think people misunderstood him because of that and that's why it's exciting to be working on monroe because we have new information about what is property actually was and how he defined himself through the construction of the house and to be discovered layout of his property. >> that just means there's more work to do more research. >> let's see what's coming next. >> how is it the highland became a site of linden. >> sure, it was inherited from the last private owner, upon his

death in 1974 and it was given to him because monroe is not alumnus and of course were in the backyard of university of virginia to which monroe also had a deep connection, they have been there since 1974. >> thank you brett very much, his air of good feelings of accurate description especially his first term, tim, what do you think. >> inaccurate description of his tours in the first three years until the panic of 1819 something which really is the first great depression and in our history and there is where monroe comes to the floor and he

did a small tour of the northern states in his third tour aims to go south and west and this is not the first time he has gone into the western territories when they have been hit by economic, he did that as a congressman, basically the powers of fdr were two centuries away and he does bring with him and empathy in his remarks and i'll see what congress can do about this and his annual message to congress which is the state of the union address, he asked them to think a little bit about the box, what can we do people to say we're losing their homes in the savings and the

like. and after 1820 missouri compromise, that shows lyndon johnson are backdoor workers and not supposed to be involved, once he's reelected the good feelings comes to an end because these come this close to eliminating parties from the national level and as soon as he starting his second term he has three candidates, actually for secretary that drops out early in henry clay and andrew jackson better lusting after his job we talk about how awful it is the day after an election, presidential election people start running for president it was not that different back then. sarah can probably add to that but it's the name we've given to all eight years but is totally

accurate for the first two or three. >> will do one more question after that, was an era of good feelings of places like highland? >> in terms of economics and agriculture, certainly taking places like piedmont virginia, it was not really the boom year in the deep south and in cotton, we cannot avoid the real fact that this was a terrible time of threat for enslaved people on these plantations in the upper south because the domestic slave trade for labor in the deep south was the biggest looming threat to their existence at that time, i think it's really important to remember that was a critical piece.

>> let's do one more question and wrap this up and put a nice bow on it and see our final audience members mind. >> have a question? >> when you spoke with monroe or was one event that you said all ha like you knew this man better, was there a moment of enlightenment and i'll start with you and will bring it home for your own moment with monroe. >> that's a hard one there is so many that filed one on top of the other, i will take one and it's not a letter that monroe wrote but a letter to monroe in the late 1785, monroe is not

backing congress and king writes to him that basically they said they regard and is the younger man's talk to a younger man if you're not around maybe you will lose this young lady, it is a tantalizing monroe has already written and some of his correspondence and virginia says we understand you have a girlfriend to bring it up to speed but with a few weeks after that they get married and i think elizabeth's marriage with monroe all say that's my favorite because it's a sign of his ambition he doesn't waste any time making sure this

happens but he loved her utterly and she the same and there's one instance for the presidency where his finances are being investigated and he's a lame-duck in the side of the other and a brand-new organ and everybody's going to go there, elizabeth almost confirms that she's had arthritis or something that sarah can get into that but they show up in there in the first row and you can just tell that she's like were not going to stay here and let them do this and that they're not going to bother and they show up and i think that's as much elizabeth but also the two of them together so now that i think king might be my favorite. >> you were going from your first century rome into 19th

century virginia in the roman history in the early american history was there a moment when you came into this world that you said you understand this man better. >> encompass all of that and say the fact that we don't know what all, the fact that there's so much to learn what we do day in and day out, try to understand history, share history from different perspectives include other voices, we can still do this and make significant contributions to how we understand our american path, does not precisely about monroe that i can go deeper on that but were still making discoveries and interpretations that change our understanding of the u.s. history, that is a big thing. >> that's a great place and a great charge let's get started,

sarah, tim thank you for sharing your time and your expertise this evening we really appreciate it thank you for being here. >> everybody stay safe and healthy on this holiday season. >> are pleasure and thank you to you at the audience, thanks to your questions we will have another book talk with jean baker and in the meantime take care, stay safe thanks to jeanette patrick and sarah we will see you again soon. >> thank you. >> you are watching the tv on c-span2 every weekend with the latest nonfiction books and authors, book tv on c-span2 created by america's television company, today brought to you by these television companies to provide book tv to viewers as a public service.

>> honor author interview program "after words" former senator harry reid deputy chief of staff adam argued for modernizing the u.s. senate that would include changes to the filibuster here's a portion of that conversation. >> i think to fix the senate you have to make it a place where bills that are urgently needed can pass again, there is a lot of different approaches to reform and i would be open to many different ways to do this but fundamentally have to get to a place where it only takes a majority to pass a bill that majority threshold can be something that has arrived that after talking filibuster in fact lowering it to a threshold would revive the use of talking filibusters i have no problem with that personally i think it is supposed to be a place where senators debate and argue their case and i think it would be great to revive that persuasion and have senators have to go to the floor and explain why they're filibustering a bill that the other thing about the

new filibuster they make the phone call and never have to explain themselves if they do not want to so under current rules with the filibuster ever explaining why we have to focus on what is the fundamental purpose of the senate the rules exist to serve some purpose and it is the chamber that is supposed to be the praise that generates thoughtful policy solutions to the challenges that we face as a country and not design the filibuster, not designed to do any secondary thing designed for policy outcomes and once it's rules no longer serve the fundamental purpose it is time to be reformed as we talked about here for most of its history the senate was a majority rule barty we saw plenty of partisanship during that time one of the dynamics underappreciated is once a bill is demonstrated that it has a majority to pass and it's going to pass a lot of people come off the sidelines and start negotiating.

that's what happened with calhoun's organ bill in 1840s that's what happened with the bush tax cuts were democrats filibustered it and under reconciliation so they only needed a majority. once it was clear the bill had a majority the democrats jumped on board, once you have the train leaving the station, you have the potential for reviving bipartisan action but you have to have action, you have to take the option off the table for the minority and the party out of power to simply sit on their hands and walk the majority in order to make them look bad. getting back to the framers for a second they explain an explicit terms this is what they feared and why they wanted the senate majority rule body they feared what they called a minority having the temptation to justify and block the

majority, political scientists have written books and reams of papers about how we leave in a polarized environment and how her political environment is dominated by negative partisanship which is a phenomenon that you succeed by making the other side fail, structural parts where they drive senators to want to oppose anything the majority because we have to remove that blockage, i think what you will see they will start passing again and i want to be clear i don't think that we should do this to empower leadership i think this is important to be done with other reforms, preferably reforms that make it easier for rank-and-file senators to bring those to the floor and i think your core goal is to return the senate floor to a place where there is an open free-flowing debate that is unpredictable and you don't know who will get a vote on what but that is a good thing, let's restore debate to

the senate and let's also make the senate a place that is capable of passing bills and responding to the policy challenges that we face today which are substantial. >> to watch the rest of this program visit our website but they.org click on the "after words" tab to find the episodes. i did a couple roles within the park development software group and then starting in 2003 i spent two years working as the chief of staff called externally, internly