on a space walk is a little higher than others. the views i felt i was seeing creation like humans are not supposed to see this and then i would have to get back to work. >> we are really lucky today to have three guess who will be outstanding to help us understand what is going on in our political discourse today steve, anthony scary which he and cynthia tucker obviously we are coming to you by zoom today i find it interesting to think in 19 oh three when the commonwealth club started the use of microphones was not even in our technological world and today we are presenting the commonwealth

club over zoom, hopefully a temporary condition but certainly an effective way to keep programming going. this is so valuable to informing public discourse and it only can occur if we get the philanthropic support of our listeners out there. you will see a prompt for how to donate to the club text the word donate to a phone number and we encourage you to do so. we will have time for questions and since we are operating over zoom the chat window is the way to submit they will be distributed to me i will try to get as many questions and as i can. obviously we bring you this program at a somewhat interesting time with the impeachment literally going on as we speak. but we will broaden the discussion far beyond the current event and really the

genesis of this discussion is a book put together by steve cadman who calls the book now what but what we will do today is talk about the book somewhat that we call now what phase two starting on january 6h but continuing into the foreseeable future so i will start by asking steve who is publisher of the book to describe to us it's an important contribution to freezing the psychology of our state of mind around the election then we will move forward to discuss psychology going forward. let me throw it to you. tell us about the book.

>> thank you for this opportunity. i would really like to emphasize about this book. we're talking about a - - politics, impeachment maybe even donald trump or joe biden but the 38 essays in this book are personal. that was the idea so to talk about politics is to talk about the personal. i and involved in a book on impeachment i follow that closely but so much of that ends up like a dog chasing its tail and reporters telling us they know the vote whether to convict donald trump at the impeachment hearing if it's preordained. spoiler alert. they don't know. they are guessing.

so that phase two nothing so i will speak for a few minutes. i hope that's okay i want to cut to the heart of what i see the book is about. they are personal essays. symphony on - - cynthia has three pulitzer prize the winners in the collection we have a lineup of people from anthony's scary mucci to al sharpton and roseanna are cut one - - arquette and then back in the day so it is a wide variety of people that these are personal essays and how we talk about politics and let me read one paragraph and then i will let you stand on a thought from my introduction to the book the essays convey how so many of us felt that the and of the trump presidency what we saw and what we did. the hope is putting these out so quickly, we could help in

the morning from all that has been lost in the healing of ourselves and ever country and with the pain and effort that has gone numb from inactivity to give life to our democracy. on the edge with a record-setting surge of voting and activism delivered us from the very real threat of plunging into autocracy we have to celebrate that deliverance and remember that like luke blowing up the death star in keep searching for answers. in that spirit really talks about phase i and phase two and i'm still searching for answers but what i point to is three qualities we make it complicated is not that complicated humanity, courage and passion.

if we can have more of those things in the public discussion in the conversations with people we would be a lot better off and i will give an example of two friends of mine. one had to be a friend with through the book, when he wrote his essay in the book which i highly recommend he was a republican congressman for the state of virginia he runs a whiskey distillery with his wife near charlottesville. he performed a gay marriage and for that was basically thrown out of the house leadership. the freedom caucus it was persona non grata and then on the house floor he spoke out against q1 on he had his life turned upside down and his own mother called him a traitor to his country we speak every day now he has his own but coming out but he has shown humanity

and courage and passion for democracy. yes we need a reckoning in the truth commission but also to focus on personal qualities. this may feel like a digression but i want to talk about a conversation sixties ago at the friend of mine who i wanted to contribute to the book he had a lot to say but unfortunately he works for espn and is not allowed to talk about politics. we were discussing anthony this is my friend pedro and you can say what you want about anthony. he helped donald trump and some of us find that offensive but we worked very hard against the reelection of trump and we were talking how do they remember you later? this is a conversation i had with pedro what will they remember you for?

humanity, courage and passion are qualities anthony has shown we can all agree. pedro shows those qualities. i won't go on long but i will talk briefly in 1989 pedro, conceived in cuba and mother and father flew to havana when his mother was eight months pregnant, he was a sportswriter but in havana for a game again it was arranged between the orioles and cuban nationals team a very big deal and pedro was there and was in the neighborhood where his family lived in a recognized him. they left in 1962 and a recognized him among the things he did was write an open letter to bill clinton calling for the and of the economic embargo of cuba for miami cuban to do that he lost

friends over that but he showed courage. in the baseball world there was an outpouring i just wanted to honor him as well but always speaking with passion what you stand for and knowing what you stand for and not being afraid to talk about that even with a difficult situation are qualities i would point to for a lot of years but on the level of values and now i know will move on to topical matters but that's the way i wanted to set it up. if you cannot talk his people to each other as people than we can't get anywhere. not just talking about me trying to talk to aq and on supporter or joe biden didn't really win.

and those degradations where they are all democrats they all voted for joe biden they still don't want to talk politics because it has become so toxic and difficult and of course we are all in our show because of covid and it becomes so much easier not to talk so for example last week when anthony and mary curtis was on another event that we did it got edgy at one point. i wasn't sure where it would go but by the end it's at the end they almost had a hug over zoom and i felt great because that microcosm is what i hope the book and help accomplish thank you for letting me speak about my friend pedro and back to you. >> thank you. i agree we will go to topics

but underlying all these topics is the context that you put forth i would also add the word empathy to your list that maybe that is and embellishment. actually what you said is the perfect lead into cynthia many of the essays in the book are people waking up from what they perceived as a nightmare and describing the feelings of euphoria on november 720 election was called. some like anthony's was a very interesting insight into a human story about donald trump but there was a third and important category that just because the election had been resolved it doesn't mean the

issues that led us to experiencing those four years were suddenly expunged from our culture. cynthia, would ask you to summarize for us and tie and the sharpton essay he addresses the same point of the concern that you had thinking about how we go forward from that november 7th date. >> when steve contacted me and asked me to make a contribution, i warned him my take was somewhat pessimistic and while most of my friends the people that i knew were celebrating long national nightmare is over i wasn't so sure because i always struggled with the

number of people who supported donald trump. let's remember he got more votes the second time he ran than the first time. so i wrote in my essay that donald trump lost but trump is him is with us still and i thank you will see that play out in politics you see it play out in a personal relationship. steve does make reference to the fact is very difficult to discuss politics. there is a good reason for that. families have been torn apart. and i struggle quite frankly. i have a 12 -year-old daughter and i struggle with the country she will inherit as an adult i have college age nieces both are seniors in college, very bright and thoughtful young women who

voted of course. voted for joe biden, but what kind of country will they inherit? what i frequently talk about is i came of age when the civil rights movement had change the country profoundly in marvelously wonderful ways. so it was easy for me to believe in the quotation that martin luther king used the moral arc of the universe bends long but toward justice. these days i am much more skeptical about that when we have so many americans who seem committed to another vision that democracy is just fine with them in trampling

that as long as they get the result that they want and be leaving outrageous lies is fine with them and quite frankly so many of them seemed unfazed by the death of more than 400,000 americans by covid. i am troubled by all of that and i'm struggling with how we move forward i do believe joe biden one absolutely. do i believe he is the right man for the moment? absolutely. joe biden is not despite the way he wears painted by his opponent during the election , he is not a socialist. he is a moderate. he believes and reaching across the aisle. he really believes in the unity he talked about during the campaign.

i am hoping he can move us in that direction. but i am worried about the future of my country. i really am. >> can you comment on how sharpton's comments? i think he had a very interesting point tying into what you said. >> yes. reverend out wrote about joe biden about knowing joe biden and working with joe biden over many many years and what a decent man he is. he talked about the fact biden has been tested and shaped by the pain and tragedy in his own personal life. and you talked about empathy

and steve talked about passion. i suppose i could use the word compassion in addition those are very similar traits and then to talk about the fact he is a man for this moment. >> which is something that has been missing from our national policy the last four years. i use the incarceration of children at the border as an example of that. anthony, that brings me to a question that maybe you can lay a foundation for us moving forward. because many behaviors that we see now, the intolerance and reverence that existed long

before trump came on the scene but somehow the trump administration normalized and allowed people to openly manifest a lot of these behaviors. so what is the judgment you are close to this for a while so what was the power that allowed this catalyst of so many behaviors that we did not realize existed. >> i don't want to dramatize it but there is something psychologically wrong with him and the result of which he got power and the manifestation of his nuttiness was a ripple effect through a lot of people we all heard the single man theory of history there is

also a group theory and i will give you two examples there was a great group of people that came together to form the foundational principles of our constitution they left the original sin of slavery. they were not perfect they were obviously very flawed with those appropriate checks and balances that started the imperfect union but led to great human progress as we study global history. on the flipside there is a bad group of people in the thirties that hijacked a sovereign nation and became the national socialist party in germany they wrecked to the nation and murdered tens of millions of people and what happens is you have a group of people in the middle that sees themselves as good people that generally they are apathetic.

so they are bad people can do things if good people remain inactive or don't review their actions. donald trump is crazy. you have to be a psychiatrist everybody knows the goldwater thing and blocking of clinical psychology to evaluate him because they not have met him but remember when lawrence taylor bypassed the left tackle and took out joe theismann and cracked his leg you don't have to be an orthopedic surgeon to know he broke his leg on the play. so there's something wrong with president trump. and it permeated and the travesty of it is a lot of people conform to their behavior to him. by the way myself included. i supported him and i will explain to you why.

you may not like what i'm going to say but you have to hear it because you have two choices you can carve out 74 million people and float them into the atlantic ocean if that's a solution we can do that were you can hear what i'm about to say and then we can try to build a bridge to those people and see if we can walk them back into our society to normalize them as many as possible. those are our choices but my family of origin moved me to believe certain things about donald trump that were not true. will be very brief and landed in albuquerque with 9000 people march 2016. i crossed the security perimeter out of my own intellectual curiosity i took off my secret service pen and then it dawned on me i was talking to my dad those were people that were blue-collar, uneducated.

my father born 1935 when he went to work as a crane operator in the early sixties he had a very high post-world war ii middle-class blue-collar wage but it was hourly he could put his kids through a good public school system we lived in a single-family house but i would never dishonor my dad to see me grew up poor we were not but those people in albuquerque were not. they had the same skill set as my father and many were eager to work. not blaming anybody but just making the economic observation, we transformed a group of blue-collar americans from aspirational working-class families like my father to desperation all working-class families 35 years later.

not blaming anybody just making the observation so i really did thank you to call me a stupid there's a lot of hindsight now over the last two years but i thought we need a policy solution for these people the political establishment has left a vacuum of advocacy for these people for three decades they were tied to johnson the grandparents were tied to roosevelt but they are tied to nobody today. we have to figure this out. and i eventually broke from donald trump, it came with death threats, threats of physical violence, i'm a former white house person i was there for 11 days i had an fbi agent assigned to me and had to turn over legitimate death threats to myself and my family. police officers stationed outside my house and many nights and people interviewed

by the fbi some of which were charged with physical threat of violence to my safety and that's all just from me speaking my mind to explain and exercise my first amendment right of the systemic danger of donald trump. i love the left-leaning media host who want to call me an opportunist but opportunism doesn't go in that direction it doesn't say this is completely wrong to me that my family and myself add a personal safety risk to speak out against this disgrace of a person so a separation between the elites and people that are economically desperate and struggling there all colors and part of a beautiful mosaic of america but we need policies to solve their

dilemma if we don't get those policies there will be more social unrest. >> let me disagree with anthony here. first of all. anthony i want to say how much i appreciate the fact you did come forward and change your mind and you are very public about what you had observed up close and working closely with donald trump and he worked very hard to get him out of office but the premise of your support in the beginning was flawed. after donald trump was elected surprising all pendants including myself in 2016, most journalist went out of their way to learn more about the working class. they were absolutely persuaded

with trump was working class economic anxiety. i never believe that and now there have been so many studies by political scientists that show that most trump supporters are doing okay financially. not wealthy necessarily that doing okay. the simple fact of the matter is they are troubled by demographic and cultural change. they are troubled by seeing a black and south asian woman as vice president of the united states. they are troubled by gay marriage. the congressman and steve talked about earlier. they are troubled that whites

are becoming a smaller percentage of the american population. i would love to be able to reach out to those folks. but i don't know what to say to voters who are troubled by the fact that my daughter may one day be a major political figure in the united states. i don't know how to respond to that. >> cynthia actually you had a word in your essay which i thought was powerful, white / is that what you are talking about? >> absolutely. from the moment that trump started, actually remember trump came onto the national political stage as a prominent supporter of birth there is the notion that barack obama

was an illegitimate president of the united states because he wasn't really born here. how does he run his first campaign? building a wall, talking about banning muslims from the country and talk about mexicans as criminals as drug dealers and rapists. yes he also talked about how bad trade deals were. he promised he would return manufacturing to the united states. he did very little in terms of returning manufacturing. but he did a lot in terms of showing his hostility to immigrants. and cozying up to white supremacist. so yes, i saw the election and donald trump as white / responding to the first black president of the united states.

>> and i respond to that? >> sure. the first time i heard that turn on - - term i think dan jones used it on cnn i did a little research. there is a book called these truths that one national book award a few years ago she is a historian and went to tufts university. i would encourage people to read the book because it will support what cynthia is saying at every moment where the african-american community advanced and has a level of progress, they were met with the white lash of violence, lynching, the kkk hangings you could go back through the 400 years at any moment in time right after the reconstruction there was significant violence and economic suppression of the

african-american and community it happen again in the twenties. and teddy roosevelt in 18 oh four he never liked him because he signed legislation and then unfairly prosecuted the history of the united states is loaded with this sort of nativism and loaded with white lash. so there is more coming so i do agree and i accept what cynthia is saying that i am also telling you he won by a very narrow margin only 43000

votes in four states and 2016 and obviously lost the popular vote. and the people that i'm describing were in movable. i can take when i broke from trump i went into white ethnic areas some was economic desperation son is exactly what you are saying, white lash they were not moving. trump could a shot people on fifth avenue and they would vote for him no matter what. the only way to defeat him and we had this conversation is to go into the inner cities to get voter registration at and push people away from their political indifference and apathy towards doing something progressive for society. i agree but there is also in my opinion if there is an algebraic equation for this

disaster may be your proration is higher than the economic desperation i'm describing but i do think it is part of that algebraic equation that led us to where we are. >> you make my job very easy. we want to move forward in our thinking. what i'm hearing is a consensus there has to be a dialogue to bridge the gap that only lives in their separate bubbles. so i put to you the general question, all of you are in journalism, how do we create some form of dialogue and

those that don't agree with each other and i will start with the media because we ended up i'm interrupting myself to go back to the vietnam war if you want to form of you you watch walter cronkite and that is it but today you choose your television station depending on which comes closest to confirming your preconceptions and i'm as guilty as it as anybody. the media has evolved but i will ask any and all of you to come up with a way we can address this because about developing this course we will continue to foment each other's concerns and reinforce

each other's opinions. >> i would like to answer this first. >> what i word point to we've been talking for the book dialogue gets old really fast. there are not a lot of ways to get people talking and i think what needs to happen is what we are talking about needs to change and the way that happens is by government in washington taking action that benefits people moving the country forward i don't think enough has been written or understood about part of the republic and project and the trump list project essentially disabled government and not even putting incompetent people into jobs or to head

government agencies when they are against everything that agency is supposed to do and it is turned into a joke were nothing happens there is such a thing as a rudderless ship but if it isn't moving forward it doesn't matter anyway only when you set a course and move through the water you can chart a course the washington media is busy talking about how joe biden, i mentioned on inauguration day , joe biden was walking down the street toward the white house ready to go in as president for the first time and a cnn reporter was yelling at him can unite the country mr. president? and this is supposed to be tough journalism? it is ridiculous and a farcical question there is no uniting the country but what there is is enacting a number of executive orders and legislation fighting the

pandemic and showing people these conversations left versus right or liberal versus conservative are illusory. large percentage of the american people support what the biden administration is trying to do i don't care about labels but are we getting something done? is that people care about. the media i would stop, i call trump the autocorrect when you try to type something in it takes gibberish and turns into a coherent idea. the media does this all the time joe biden just said this. what he meant was. no. they get it wrong what he meant so we need less interference or interest from washington media and the way to do that not to highlight

discussions but for the government to do things the impact people to show government can work for them bill clinton is not often cited now but one thing the clinton administration tried to do when he was being impeached is they tried to get things done on a daily basis sometimes was incremental and did not work out well. infamously leading to incarceration and black people et cetera but the fact was they were acting in doing things with energetic dynamic people in jobs and that is the story to get it moving forward in some direction because before we had a reality tv show we spent our time arguing about what we should argue about.

i'm interested to hear comments on it. >> i very much agree with what steve just said. polls show the vast majority of americans support biden's proposal for fighting the coronavirus, getting the vaccine moving and economic aid for people who are hurting. i think just showing people what we have in common in terms of our need is a very important step in the right direction i would suggest that i teach at the university of south alabama and they spend more time than you might think is teaching my students what

is a legitimate source of information. they have grown up in a social media age. >> meaning sean hannity? [laughter] i have to explain tucker carlson and sean hannity and some talkers on the left are not the best source of information. what is the difference between view on - - news and opinion? i would urge all of you the young folks you have access to to model that for them and help them to understand that because that is also important. >> i will say three things. i would encourage everybody to

read my friends book it's all a lie. >> yes. >> it's very factual what he is saying about the republican strategy and republicans decided as long as there are more whites and blacks are brown's they will hold the majority and then when that flipped over they would exercise the tyranny of the minority and figure out a way to do that operation read map with a flooded the zone to produce all these republican majorities at the state level that made it easy for them to gerrymander and push things around so they could take advantage of the constitution. the inherent point is to protect minorities that's why rhode island has the same number of senators is california and republicans use that to their advantage with free towing of the fairness

doctrine from reagan in the eighties leading to the rise of rush limbaugh so if we would just be open and honest of everything in society, cynthia is correct demographics are turning against white people and there is a very large group of white people that are angry about that. people will be offended but i'm saying it for dramatic effect so please just listen they are offended by the latte drinking hordes of transvestites that are brown and black coming up over to take over their government and i said it that way for a reason because you need to understand how they think so you will not get between 2025 percent of these people you could have a hundred seminars you can smoke peace pipes you are not getting them

the reason why am so supportive of this trial right now is likely leading to acquittal is display of the facts chris cuomo said 80 percent of republicans are supporting this but the registration of the republican party down to 30 percent of the americans so 80 percent of 30 is 24 percent. my job is to get it at 14 and ten. so we will break up the republican party i'm part of the movement was stuart stevenson a large group of people between eight or ten or 12 percent of that party will splinter to liquidate the radical extremism use are represented january 6 he will not reach those people otherwise and that's just a fact the goal is to reach their children and grandchildren and by the way

i'm hoping we can liquidate that stupidity and ignorance but we have 400 years of it you won't liquidate it tomorrow. that will not happen. >> comments on the bracing anthony just uses in his phrasing the latte drinking, i never thought of the culture war in quite that colorful way. so i have to pause on data moment and think about it but it made the point. >> by the way i am saying that dramatically and perhaps somewhat politically incorrectly to provoke to what

is going on so they don't allow the sensitivity your sensory adaptation to be offended. look at it for what it is to treat the disease if you well. >> i can imagine one of the essays is from dusty baker a baseball manager but a very wise man and a lot of people remember a moment when his young son got run over in the middle of a game he is at uc berkeley now i went to school and will graduate soon but his essay is called darren's generation because both cynthia and anthony are making this point but i absolutely agree so much of what we need to do is take a longer view and to argue we will not fix this or solve this or even move the needle in some ways

but it is hopeful that darren's generation and understands this is on them and they need to learn and keep their eyes open. i completely agree media literacy is something we all need to find ways and talking to people through this project trying to get involved and young people that how can you explain the difference between a news column and opinion column when if you are regular reader of "the new york times" or "washington post" they haven't quite figured out that distinction either. [laughter] >> good point. >> is not easy but the longview make sense. >> you mentioned where the republican party is going can you expand on that a little bit?

i think that will be important not that the democrats are monolithic that they are behaving monolithically the republicans have the bigger challenge i will call it was cheney versus marjorie taylor green syndrome how you see that developing? >> my hope is people like liz cheney and my good friend mitt romney win the battle but i am pessimistic because we have so much political expediency in the party and his political consultants that told josh holly and ted cruz take the trump lane and you will object it will be a mild objection and you'll look like a star to the trump base on 2024 of

course that backfired on those two lunatics and what's happening now in our society hate to say this with cynicism but i did get the 11 day phd and washington nonsense. i know what these people are really like now and what they are really like is my power and the preservation of my power and what's in it for me personally is more important than the country. i'm not here to serve anybody they call it public service but i'm here to rule over people so you have a very large group of those people in the republican party i cannot speak for the democratic party ensure there are people like that but here is why i am so optimistic. because donald trump exposed all of them. all of the bibles that marco rubio puts on his twitter feed is an absolute joke.

the guy is a coward. the intellectual lightweight and he is miserable and we've got to get rid of people like him. we cannot do that because there is more of them in the party then and there are stevens or romney's. the good news is because of this exposure what i predict will happen is the party is liquidated if there is a chance mitch mcconnell who signaled this morning he is undecided and a chance you could get leadership but i doubt it and i will leave you with a thought that should make you laugh a little. i'm with kevin mccarthy a fellow californian seven years ago and at a congressional luncheon café up on the hill. he says to me with great sanctimony we only have

thermostats up here they sense the weather and report that back i'm sorry thermometers. but we need thermostats they set the coordinates on the wall and bringing the temperature of the country they lead people and show people the way. but we only have thermometers is kevin mccarthy a thermometer? he is disgusting one way selfish to quote trump he probably does have a low iq because there's no way you can operate the way he is operating if you have a high iq. the bad news is we will go into a nuclear winter in the republican party that's not good for democrats because what we learned is you need a two-party system and a check and balance because you have a radical extremist on the left

that can get more power but we will liquidate the party there's between seven and 10 percent of the people in mommy's camp that will say no problem we have to form a new party. this way we can prevent the republican party from destroying our democracy. and cynthia is right. you have a group of people and then to storm the capital we cannot let that happen talk about your children or dusty baker how can we let that happen? how can good men and women on our society not call it out despite the death threats and allow that to happen? >> all of us on the panel

everyone of us was the country and wanted to be a democracy. so let's debate the policy later we can look at taxation and the minimum wage later you have to face democracy. that's the number one thing we have to do together and for this reason i am optimistic donald trump is a great unifier he is unifying all of us against him. and those people are not jobs. >> and on the speculation and as a country not is divided in told as we are in 25 percent on the left and 25 percent on

the right that do not want to accommodate any kind of a consensus on policy but that leaves 50 percent in the middle and right now that statistic seems to be ignored and maybe we are being sold more dissension and could be in the same room. >> there were lots of media outlets. so there is some amplification of the differences among us. bellamy throw out something i keep reading in the newspapers

and with the thoughtful and republican officeholders. and with what they are going along with day word agree on the principles that i support. and will not say out loud in public that he agrees with those things. and then to show they support those things. and then to find the courage to publicly show the principles if they stand on those principles. >> and also not to get primary to every two years. >> and to go into political

retirement. >> and that is the unfortunate thing. in many mistakes in my life where is born from ego and pride. and my wife who hates trump almost as much as milania. give her her do she's in a primary position but my wife told me not to go work for him. but i had in my head, growing up in a blue collar family , built two successful businesses and now i would work for the american president. the fact he was a social path come i was using cognitive dissidents with the override switch because of my pride and ego. i have to that for the rest of my life.

and friends of mine and i have to come to grips of the fact and as a result of that we contribute to a lot of pain in our society and if i am a racist or not is inconsequential and we were accomplices and we have to acknowledge and in my opinion the way a drug addict has to turn to his family members and if we don't do that you get your ego in their that a did it for country or for this or for that but we did contribute

to that. i started speaking out right after the congressional midterms but i should've spoken out before that and i will deal with that the rest of my life but more people have to own it and get together on the side of the republic and democracy. >> in the little time we have left, let's date stamp our talk today to say this is the second day of the impeachment hearing. and to get everybody's thoughts but if you had a secret ballot what is the result? >> 90 / ten in the senate. and then to support him but he will be acquitted.

and the prosecution narrative because they are laying out the facts because there are more of us that are good and bad. and ultimately the good people of the united states will realize how abnormal and sick this is and i'm very optimistic about that so i love the fact they are doing this and we are in day to. >> your take on the impeachment? >> i have to tell you from the very beginning right after the riots the democrats start talking about a second impeachment and i was a bit skeptical. and then it gets in joe biden's way. but i change my mind.

i think the ability of the house impeachment managers to lay out the case and the facts before the american public is crucial. he won't be convicted but so many americans home now completely understanding his role in this and we won't get distracted by the quality of the legal representation so we will let you have the last word on the impeachment and if it helps the long-range goal to think and communicate and look at facts. >> we have to be storytellers

that's what writers are and what journalists need to be and what a good prosecutor is no eric prides himself on telling a good story as a prosecutor and then to present that narrative because in a way it is a battle of narratives and we talk about courage but i would point to imagination and absolutely no one thinks mitch mcconnell is sitting around wondering about his boy scout leader is the right thing in mitch mcconnell is thinking about his own power and future but what if mitch mcconnell over the next few days makes the calculation that voting to convict donald trump and bringing along enough votes to do that because mitch mcconnell knows

how to get votes what he really want to do that? he could get his they are so that's why i find it laughable to read repeated references with a preordained result because nobody knows that mitch mcconnell will do and the big problem is the desire to appear omniscient when people don't know things. we are both baseball men if you go to the stadium and you don't know what will happen. and politics is more like sports and people like to acknowledge they enjoyed the football reference earlier. . . . ..

>> maybe you will have to put out volume two of your book at 12 months from now. it would be a good hindsight . bullet want to thank all of you for what i thank you so but we may be just a drop of sand on

the beach but conversations like this aggregate . and hopefully people will receive something to think about one kernel of thougt builds on the next. so think the commonwealth club for hosting this and i thank you cynthia and steve and anthony for such a great participation. so thank you to our audience. we are hereby adjourned. >> you're watching tv on "c-span2". the weekend with the latest nonfiction books and authors. book tv on "c-span2". created by americans cable television company. today it brought to you by the television company to provide book tv to viewers as a public service.

>> recently heard his foundation senior fellow mike, argued that identity politics or dividing america. it is a portion of the program . >> the reason i wrote my book would expose these myths. this is one of the reasons why that hijacks 104 best as humans, to be compassionate freighted to just side with the people who need our help. however, these ideas did not come from the grassroots infected grassroots were very open and going later that they rejected being seen as marginalized as members of minorities were victims . and they wanted to access the american dream individually for their own agency. these are people who are often times were discriminated against. and if they believed they could

improve their lives individually. the idea that you acted collective imposed by activists who have this idea of changing america in the minds . so these within the most important things to pull out right away. and say that we should be very aware that her best focuses are being hijacked here . on this other of the demography . changing demography after the immigration law of 1965 . anticipated this and integrate spread less of the case . it has been changing. since the 16 hundreds actually in the advent of the arrival of the scotch irish in the 1850s, the scandinavians . and germans and irish . and a profusion of groups from armenia and syria and sicily and eastern europe and hungary.

so it's always been changing. there was nothing about this new wave which is a continuation of the american story that necessitated of breaking the country into categories and minorities . >> to watch the rest of this program, visit our website booktv.org . use the search box near the top of the page to look for his name for the title of this quote, the plot to change america. >> were very excited to host dale maharidge and jessica for a full conversation . and for his book "f**ked at birth - recalibrating the american dream for the 2020s" . and jessica is the author of nomad than running american the century bring two of them co-authored last year's age of surveillance. so little bit about the books toasting tonight about myself quickly amanda invents manager.