examines police and immigration data increase sexual violence against women in europe and makes a number of recommendations about improving assignment of immigration policies and better integrating migrants and the host country societies. the recipient of more than 20 prices for her writing and human rights advocacy and one of time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world joining conversation is a journalist most recently of "the new york times" and author of the best-selling book how to fight anti-semitism. and we will get to that later the program. pleased to welcome ayaan hirsi ali and i will return later for the question program. >> i want to speak briefly first about the controversy and speak directly to all of you. we live in a world we insist women are to be believed and their experience should be trusted but the same people want to silence ayaan hirsi ali for silencing hers she has suffered the most evil forms of violence against women we

declare black lives matter. she is a black woman traveling under armed guard under a decade and a half due to credible death threats and now told her voice puts people's lives in danger. we live in a world where some speeches violence and sounding the alarm an actual violence perpetrated against women and girls is met with denunciation. not just hypocrisy these are the tools that liberal ideologues who masqueraded morally fashionably language use to bully and silence those they disagree with. those that want to shut down conversation are not interested in for each one - - freedom or speech or safety that we live in a country with the bill of rights and the constitution and the culture of liberalism we get together at forums like this and freely discuss hard subjects with respect and decency that is the principle of the open society and worth fighting

for. i want to sincerely thank the commonwealth club for the refusal to capitulate to the deeply un-american mob to get this event canceled. with that let's get to the reason you are all here is ayaan hirsi ali and her new book called prey. it is an honor to be with you. you write early on one of the rich ironies 21st century history a single decision that has done the most harm to european women in my lifetime was made by a woman. talk about that woman and what her decision was and how it informs what you write about these pages of your new book. >> thank you for that fantastic introduction like you come i also want to think

the commonwealth club for hosting me and you. and for refusing to capitulate to the mob. also thinks especially to doctor gloria for insisting this event take place. doctor duffy thank you very much for your courage. the feeling is entirely mutual. you are one of my heroes and one of the most courageous voices who defend freedom in your generation. coming to the question that you asked, who is that woman? chancellor angela merkel. what is the rich irony? in a moment of thoughtlessness in 2015 decided it was time to

open the gates to immigrants from syria at that point. 's the context was a young woman cried the cameras are on it she said what am i going to do? at first chancellor merkel it was as if i have to think about this we can't accept everyone. the child cried and then she said okay everyone is welcome. and that moment of compassion once large numbers of people came in a mean those that were displaced are running away from civil war or people

exposed to the worst types of violence imaginable but a lot of them were young men. so germany and other parts of europe were not prepared for the influx but they were not prepared in a think if that event was handled more appropriately things would be different today. >> not to jump ahead but what would that have look like if it was more soft? >> in my estimation elitist like angela merkel and others that prime minister of the united kingdom the president of france and those that were struggling in their countries with the process of integrating in the united states we call it assimilation with that process of

immigrants from muslim majority countries would have anticipated especially after the arab spring and before that that countries in africa and south asia and the middle east things were turning around and there would be a huge influx of immigrants and they would come to europe sooner or later they should have anticipated these events. even to this day adult think they're having those conversations so what true leadership looks like is to say we are having difficulties today on the ground in this context it is the failure of assimilation. five years from now or ten years from now what do things look like? but if that moment arrives in your overwhelmed and all the cameras are gazing at you, the eyes of the world and you want

to look good and compassionate to make a thoughtless decision but then happens it affects other people. now probably having the greatest social and political volatility that europe has known since the cold war. i will out myself as one of those bleeding hearts who cheered in my heart when she made that decision in famously said we will manage. maybe like a lot of people watching thinking of the refugee crisis in europe and a little boy in the red teacher who washed up on the beaches famously. but just to give context for the amount of numbers you are talking about. since 2009 more than 3 million people have arrived illegally in europe, more than two thirds are men and the

overwhelming majority are coming from countries where men and women are not equal according to the law and that's the subject of your book how to square that understandable compassion a lot of us felt and the sympathy with the ideas that when they cross over the border. so looking more deeply into the book the subject of your book, the subtitle is the erosion of women's rights. tell us how the influx of immigrants in your view has changed the lives of women and girls both muslim and also non-muslim in cities like paris or amsterdam or berlin. >> i will start with the components of compassion. absolutely that's what we

should start. you call it bleeding heart i think of it as compassion human to human i think it's going on in parts of africa, middle east, south asia and beyond and in china the communities that are subjected to the greatest violations of human rights i would simply call it genocide. my heart goes out to them. i feel compassion for them. if you are a world leader, it is your job and you are elected to express judgment , to take the time of what is possible or attainable, how is

that compassion put into a win-win, not a zero-sum game outcome, what would you do? that requires a lot of thought and a lot of hard work and that convening of a lot of world leaders and requires you to compel others to say this is a burden worth bearing let's share the burden when it comes to resources and who we will allow in and what we will do in the counties of origen politically and militarily and economically. that's not the conversations the western leaders were having. the conversations they were having over the past couple decades was going to go after

my own self-interest you go after euros of interest. people move around, wars take place economic exceptions and somebody gets hurt in the process and the subject of the large numbers of people moving from poor unstable countries into supposedly rich countries, somebody gets hurt. at first it was immigrant women brought in and subjected to such things as female genital mutilation and child marriage. but today there are neighborhoods with labels such as working-class or lower income or social housing to say these are the lower-class and comes and lower-class communities. they bear the burden of the

unintended consequences of migration. and the angela merkel's of the world stand in front of the cameras and virtue signal we show a sense of compassion we've let everyone in but when things are disrupted come on people's lives are disrupted , who bears the burden of what do we do about that? >> i think your book would argue that is not just immigrant women inside these communities but all women and girls in the surrounding societies back from the public square. even though the laws have not changed a lot of these countries, you seem to be making the case the cultural shift is so tremendous the law is neutered in the face of it.

give us some color and examples. one comes to mind for me was the years eve in 2015 tell us what happened and those who haven't read the book have a sense of the extent of what you mean when you talk about the erosion of women's rights. you're not just talking about cap calling or groping in public. >> with your permission, i will give you some color and read a passage from the book it is an infamous incidence but i think a lot of people are familiar with but they may have forgotten. page 64.

a reckoning came in the german city of cologne new year's eve december 31, 2015. around 1500 men mostly newly arrived asylum-seekers of north african background converts in the area between cologne central station and the city's famed gothic cathedral to see in the new year. the men were drunk andrew lee and it soon became clear beyond the control of the city police. they mobbed together and trapped women in the square actually harassing and assaulting anyone they can get their hands on stealing their wallets and mobile phones in the process. the following months, 661 women reported being victims of sexual attacks that night

one of germany's leading families in a cologne local investigated the events of that evening interviewing many of the women who were attacked. they described being separated from their husbands and male friends and pushed inside hell circle of young migrant men. they groped women and girls , no matter their age or appearance or circumstances, grabbing their bed rest in between their legs. one woman describes several men trying to insert their fingers into her regina. the only thing one - - the china is blocking them was a tights she was wearing. some were held by swarms of men for 30 minutes of continual assault. eventually spat out of the crowd some reported, and

here's what kills me, the police had deliberately looked away. many women reported ongoing trauma and fear many months after the event. yet those who have spoken what happened to them in public forums have been labeled for pointing out the ethnicity of their perpetrators and now when speaking about their experiences. that is the color. statistics will tell you that so when you stand there and say i have shown compassion and in fact, you have not you have shown incompetence. >> in a specific instance that

has resonated with me and i have thought about it a lot is a read the book, what disturbed me the most is the police said the event was largely peaceful. that's a theme that repeats itself throughout the book two years later in another german city of berlin also new year's eve you write about an incident or a party or gathering in the area near the brandenburg gate and how the police specifically set up an area of women's safety area and the police spokesman was not ashamed to say publicly this is a good opportunity to women to retreat to if they feel harassed. what is going on? why are police and law enforcement to say nothing of the leadership failing at their most basic duties to provide public safety for people? >> that is the question the subject of the book.

the failed leadership the question that i ask myself. why were we surprised by the events of 2015 and beyond when we had seen somebody's happened in various countries in the first decade on a slow smaller scale. we saw this happen in egypt, syria and various arab countries. so we knew if we had a large number of men, very young men to come in not socialized into the context they were coming into, that we were going to run into problems like this one and then the response

itself in the burden putting up with this is put on the women and women in poor neighborhoods. and it really is outrageous. if you want more color come as you read the book you will see example after example i've spoken to so many women who literally say i am not anti- migrant. we want to display that exact same compassion and angela merkel displayed me feel sorry for the people of syria and afghanistan in somalia and elsewhere, they want to welcome them. there are so many volunteers in so many of these countries who want to do good things for people in these places but

they also describe how the streets have changed in the schools have changed and the continuous assault on their bodies in the obscenities and they are assailed on a daily basis and how the authorities leave them to themselves because when they go to the city council to say what is happening in my neighborhood they are dismissed as racist and de novo been that is where it is coming that is where the radical islam is coming and all other fringe groups and extremists with the agenda because the mainstream does not want to deal with these issues. >> you make a powerful argument in the book because the centerleft or even the center is so scared to touch this issue, it is basically exploited that look

at these horrible things that are happening and use it to make arguments for mass deportation. is that one of the reasons you felt the need to write this book? i would love you to speak to critics who claim even by writing a book like this and shedding light on the topic that you are offering fodder to right wing nationalist for example. >> if you are offering fodder to our right wing nationalist 20 years ago, that was excusable because that made sense. that is what fees these extremist. but over time, we have seen that when mainstream leaders silence everyone and everything say you are as you know fullback or hate speech there is a censorship and

those that benefit largely and sometimes we go from nowhere and then just occupy relatively large factions of parliament. know if you look at this book it zooms in on women how they are pushed out of public spaces transportation systems and cafés and how they are trying to cope and adapt. is not just women you can talk to jewish minorities they will tell you the same thing. they will say we have lived here for centuries. we suffered and we cannot anymore.

jeff assert on - - jennifer goldberg did a piece in 2014 and a similar journey in a similar analysis where he talks to a lot of jewish leaders who have said we have lived here all our lives. these changes are taking place because of immigration especially on - - especially for muslim countries and now it is anti-semitism but not only that but the old extreme is coming out because now it is okay to be anti- somatic and they were responding by leaving the neighborhoods if they could to go to israel or

to america which is what the women are doing their covering themselves not to be desirable or attract male attention. you could do the same of what is going on when it comes to homosexuals. they are not holding hands or looking gay because they are being attacked. why is that happening? because they are immigrants who are coming from countries where there is the intolerance toward homosexuality and when they see it they don't just feel hostile they act on it and then it happens over and over again in your neighborhood, people want to feel safe, they are scared so they take themselves out of their neighborhood cafés where there's more fear in silence not just women is what i wanted to stay.

>> that leads me to a question i've been thinking about a lot in the west do you feel that intersection now that the, multiculturalism, and that idea that all cultures are created equal, have they trumped the old notion that i have been raised to think of as feminism or women's rights? >> if you are a feminist and you knew about the subject of the book you would be raising more than holy hell. the question is do they know or do they want to know? now it is very interesting i thought it was inspiring because they were powerful men

taking advantage of their positions of women in the working place and for women to come out against that and say this happened to me in that conduct has to stop, that was a good thing but they came to a screeching halt. it did get to the women that i discuss in pray - - teefour of working-class women. number two, there is another kind of feminism that i don't object to it but i wish it would become a bigger part the feminism about shatter the glass ceiling more women ceos and women presidents and women chancellors. that is fine. but right now do you know what i want? i want to feminism that will

discuss the activism to say don't touch us in public space. don't grope us we don't want to hear those lewd noises we don't want to be tracked i don't care our income i don't care if we are immigrant or white women or working-class or what the heck. i don't give two foods the rapist is a rapist i don't care if he is a rich white man or if he is a poor syrian refugee. a rapist is a rapist you can explain it but not excuse it. we need that kind of feminism i am compassionate and i know you are in happy to socialize these young men i am not arguing for these men to be

punished that are disproportionate. i would love them to be socialized. let's get going with those programs of socializing and civilizing them. >> are there programs in particular countries you would point to or places that you see for growth? to be optimistic? who is doing integration or assimilation or whatever you want to use, right? now these 3 million people are in europe, they're not going anywhere, give us examples of countries or cities or towns doing it right or if you were ahead of the european union what you would be doing starting tomorrow. >> two different questions.

if there are countries doing the right thing? yes there are leaders in countries such as denmark, austria and recently the president of france was suggesting the whole concept of multiculturalism intersection now that he, cancel culture and rejecting the whole umbrella of ideas or ideology and saying wait a second. not all cultures are created equal some are better than others our has freedom and equality and insisting on integration programs and implementing those making the resources available and they have that approach welcome will give you all that you need to integrate or simulate

if you care to do that then you have to think about the consequences and live with those. and i have seen that is actually working but that also comes with the idea to think about national identity and borders because if you say to someone if you want to be in this country, then you have to abide by the rules and the norms of this country and if you refuse to do that, you will be evicted or moved from this country. for that to make sense, you do have to have borders. that condition is coming back. the second part of the question is commissioner of the eu. >> are ahead of one of the countries what would you do? >> being had the commission of the eu is a different position because you could see all the different countries and

collectively do things together and the big picture is things are happening in africa in the middle east. and nobody really checks out of that scenario. when things go bad the united states of america takes care of it. that whole approach them before us and we will just retreat to our shut toes and drink the fine wine until the president knocks the door and says come on we need an alliance to join us here and there and everywhere. and they need to be told, listen, it is in your backyard all of this instability is happening and if you don't do something about it, you will be affected. this is exactly what immigration or the movement of

hundreds of thousands of millions of people is happening in europe. the commissioner of the eu needs to convene all of the countries and the leaders of these countries and start thinking in those terms what you can do to stabilize the economy so that people don't feel compelled to take this very dangerous journey to make their way to europe. >> what you say to him in any of interviewed so many that are bravely speaking out on the issues you talk about but a lot are closeted because frankly understandable reasons what you say to women who are scared to speak out because they are nervous about being smeared or called the things

you are called regularly at this very moment on social media? and for you it's not just social media but real life. so how do you advise them? and what advice do you give those who are watching this you want to speak out but are scared? >> stand together like you and i have done today and yesterday and the past few weeks. you have been smeared and bullied out of your job and you had to face a great deal of pain but it has made you stronger and it's made me stronger and i think this is the message. let's find all of those women and stand together and let's not make the mistake that many of my fellow feminist make that i am out of that pain and

problems now i will forget all about the other girls when i say this i give you a bit of color, i looked into the issue of it's happening in the uk and i asked myself whatever those children betrayed? why didn't people do anything? not just the authorities but other women, mothers, why did they do anything? the one phrase i find so painful over and over again the victims of the pakistani gangs were dismissed as white trash. think about that. white trash. fellow human being with children and that is how they were dismissed. if we think of fellow girls in human beings as white trash or

black trash and give them those labels, then feminism is not worth its name. >> go deep for me on this word is at the root of the inability beyond lack of courage, is it a crisis beyond just the issue of crisis and confidence of western culture and western civilization? what is at the root of what is going on that explains so many people at every level ability to stand up for what obviously is the most basic human right? >> it's not everyone but a lot of people who are standing up and fighting your in the circles where people say enough is enough.

but there is a great deal of fear so just to come in on the cancel culture you have to make a choice if you are paying a mortgage or your college fees for your kids, if you want to be invited to all sorts of things in your neighborhood you don't want to come out and be a spoilsport or the rabble-rouser so those fears that have to do with being socially ostracized. and sometimes even physical fear which is what i have endured and still do and others do, if you can combine all of this, there is a sense

maybe someone else should do it. if i think someone else should do it and you think someone else should do it and we all think someone else should do it that no one does it. besides that undoubtedly a crisis of confidence because they demand in the western civilization the tone for what happened in the past and that's a good thing to reflect on the past and to grapple with it. and to use the past as a lesson to improve things in the present and the future but if you only tell the selected story when you are not truly grappling with the past in the story that we hear over and over again is that we just did terrible things and enslaved, genocide, colonize

people, you hear that drummed into you day in and day out all of the truth but what about all the good stuff we did? kids are not told that. so the conclusion either is the complete trauma with the national identity or how should i as a young person regardless institutions that we have inherited when they have committed so many sins and so many bad things? of the conclusion that black lives matter say destroy the whole thing and take it apart that doesn't resonate. a lot of it needs the activism or the leadership we were talking about with virtues signal or just avoid sensitive

issues that have to do with those issues. >> that you have endured every name everything i single time i've met you in real life you have armed guard that's true following the murder and for the people that are watching can you give people a little bit of your courage of how you articulate to yourself that allows you to make that choice over and over again not just

to your name that to your physical safety and to move around the world file. can you offer that message to people and then one more question before we bring back doctor duffy. >> so much has been given to me to wallow what went wrong in my life then i will live in anger and resentment. and that generosity that people have given me and the friendship and the love and every step of the way and i cannot let those people down. had to give it to my children and husband and my friends but also to the people that i talk about and pray and it makes me very very upset to hear

phrases like white trash or to see a child bride or another child to be mutilated and say nothing. i know i can and i choose to say something because someone said something for me someone held my hand and pulled me up in the never wanted anything. they just wanted me under the circumstances. >> i like to think of this as

the litmus test and those what they think of you but i recently know that the actress amber heard to the challenge. which was every single interview she did with every single woman's magazine and asked to her hero was are her favorite author and she always says you every single time. the challenge is to see if anybody whatever printed but up until two weeks ago nobody ever printed your name in response to that question. but to me that what around the world and simply stand up for people that are famous looking for those people you write about and is in the pantheon

of feminist heroes as you should be. i had to relay that now with that we want to bring back in doctor duffy. >> i hope i'm heard and seen and thank you for great conversation. we at the commonwealth club understand the sensitivities in our community especially what we have been through the country the last few months. 118 years old at the commonwealth club. we are convinced that is possible and committed to it. we are having such a dialogue tonight. we are delighted you can talk about the toughest of subjects with great mutual respect. thank you. everybody. audience and the speakers.

we do have quite a few questions having to do with the relevance of this discussion about immigration and integration to the us. with a large influx of immigrants into the us starting in the mid- 19th century and early 20th century from different parts of the country. and large waves of immigrants can be accommodated to become functioning members of a new society. >> thank you for this kind words. those immigrations to the united nations and then to be

selective. only the fittest in the strongest but those with a journey across the atlantic could do it. and they had to adapt. they had no choice but to adapt or die and many died. after wave after wave came that selection continued and it became more formalized. rate late 19th century and

the ships that are holiday ships and they had to meet so many criteria that had to go through so many hoops and if they fail they were returned. and that i think what is happening in europe to call it immigration is a misnomer was is just the spontaneous exit of the people trying to cross and that kind of selection is not happening that natural selection if you cross the mediterranean and make it to the other side and you are still alive but when it comes

to that what will you do? so those who compare why it is a success from muslim countries is a failure to be in these differences spent the latter part of your book talk about solutions at better integration and support in these communities with the types of interviews that are done and how it suited to adapt.

or how they got there? >> to waste resources to figure out if you qualify for asylum or not when in fact it is quite clear. a country like syria the civil servants who is asking you and prosecution by a government do you ever read the news? how could you possibly be asking these questions those on the other side of the world and it's the exact same questions still in place for situations such as syria or afghanistan or somalia people

are not saying they're not personally persecuted by the administration or holding nuclear secrets. that's not the story. the story is my entire government broke down. we all fled. the strongest of us came here because we were told by family members that if you go to europe it is a chance at starting a new life. and that is the conversation we should be having. you're welcome to start a new life but can you do it? and wish they would stop demonizing economic migrants

let america i did not do and welcomes and should welcome economic migrants. that is the difference so there should be a paradigm shift in the way europe approaches immigration and do it the way america does and it's overwhelming those that want to come to europe and those that we can accommodate not just the foreign policy of one country but global. >> what is the impact of covid? has a reduced migration or improved or affected the lives of women? >> two different questions. covid has caused those economies in africa where they're coming from that were

struggling. covid has devastated those economies with food shortages. and to tell you today large numbers of people and then by the summer of next year to flee conflict and famine and drought. and then to anticipate that but now. to say help let them in. >> one person going back to the comments of policing and lack of enforcement and the

question is what do you think of the debate the debates and less traditional types of community safety approaches? when you say defined the police what you say is a total breakdown of law and order. and where there is and if you don't want to have a police force then visit somalia for some time. lived there for a few months and then come back. defending the police is a utopian desire that leads nowhere.

with a complete breakdown of law and order. an institution like the police with the slogan to defend the police and then you have to absolutely articulate what they are doing wrong and there are so many people in the first few years we have seen demand for them to carry cameras and hold them accountable. so much has been done. but the cost to defund. >> there are different views about that and to be in and out of jail all their life

that are particularly well addressed by the criminal justice system. some people think about creative alternatives but we all have our views and i respect yours. >> doctor duffy. i do thank you have a point. i don't think the police is the institution responsible for taking care of our mentally ill. there are other institutions if it's a failure of leadership of a different kind not for the mentally ill. but the idea of defunding them is not a good idea. >> of course. >> tell us about your

foundation, ayaan hirsi ali foundation and what does it accomplish? >> it defends the rights of women and children. and those that have a voice for themselves child marriage and forced marriage and we have lobbied i'm not sure if we can use that word but we have tried to get through legislation female genital mutilation outlawed in all states we have succeeded to

bring back children that were abducted through the state department and got them back may have been forced into marriages they did not want. to help prosecutors and those that were murdered and were female relatives and we train service providers and social workers to work in the

domestic violence sector. what does domestic violence that affect these women and we do it across the country. >> and has there not been recent success in the legislation that the end of last year if i recall? >> yes there has and also an emphasis that i'm not allowed to talk about because it might affect the outcome. >> there is an interesting approach to immigration from the government in canada to favor women and immigration and asylum. and then admire women to the stream of immigrants. what you think of a strategy like that?

and then to focus on the vulnerable of women and children and especially victims of violence and look at the people fleeing and those that were subjected to the worst kind of sexual violence it is a great gesture and i am thankful for that.

leaders coming up with a plan when they can work with these organizations and other ngos to help people stay in the countries of origin by helping them build the institutions they made to get them to a place of political stability and economic stability so that you don't have these mass exodus as of people but along the way. >> we are getting close to the end of the program and again thank you so much. i would like to ask both of you one last question which is what

brief life-changing advice would you give to a little girl today about her path in life and how to conduct herself. >> live your life out loud. you only have one life and i think the choice to be out and proud about who you are regardless of what other people call you can bring incredible joy and meaning to your life even with a small group of people that share your values is way more important than being invited to come and sit with the popular girls. a. >> that is very why is and the only thing i can add to the resilience when true love is given to you by people who

really mean it and when you get an opportunity. >> thank you both for that wise advice to your younger self, my younger self and all of the little girls out there. our thanks to author of the new book pray immigration islam and the erosion of women's rights and author of how to fight anti-semitism for joining us today at the commonwealth club to the audience, thank you so much for watching and participating live thank you,

stay tuned everyone. will

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