once again we are live on capitol hill where we expect to hear from the u.s. capitol police chief yogananda pittman. she is testifying before e house appropriations subcommittee on her agencies 2022 budget request. the acting the acting capitol police chief is expected to be asked about capital security especially in light of the

january sixth attack. a little bit of the delayed start. you can watch it here on c-span2. c-span2. also online at c-span.org. while we wait some remarks from this morning's "washington journal." >> black history month. we will come back to "washington journal" professor eddie glaude was a american african-american studies chair at princeton university and author of the new bookau began again james baldwin america and its urgent lessons for our own. good morning. >> morning. >> as we start our conversation who was james baldwin? >> he's one of the world's greatest literary artists. i think he is in many ways the most insightful critic ever produced when comes to the question of race and democracy. the inheritor of ralph walters and emerson legacy. as insightfuls about democracy, as elections, except for the

point of entry of course, the contradiction sits at the heart of this experiment and that his race. he's one of our greatest writers we've ever produced. >> is this the first book you've written about him? >> it's not the first -- yes, the first book i've written about him but all of my books had been some ways and engagement withme baldwin here even the academic or scholarly books. i admit and conversation with him in such a way that has allowed me to rereadwa the american tradition in light of a series of questions around identity and history an agency that animate his work and african-american letters. this is the first book i've written on him, written with him rather, but he's always been my news. >> the subtitle is the urgent lessons for our own, and part of what you write in your book is

this, professor glaude. this will demand a new american story, , different symbols and robust policies to repairt what we have done. i don't know yet what this will look like. my disdain of her history suggest we will probably fail trying. o but it didn't each element is important any effort beginning again. he a presidential election alone will not satisfy their hunger. a moral reckoning is upon us and we had to decide once and for all whether or not we will truly be a multiracial democracy. tell us a bit about the interesting phrase, restless ghosts. what were you alluding to? aroune people ought to matter more than others has left a pile of bodies in its wake. there are so many lives that have been lost, so many dreams that have been bashed because we

organize this society in such a way that we believe that certain people ought to be valued more than others and disadvantage should be distributed accordingly. those ghosts haunt. i come out of the south, i am a black southerner. we have this view that if folks don't die right they haunt. you think that moment where desmond ward who won the national board of look -- national book award for her book and she has a moment in the paperback edition where she describes a tree of ghosts, the tree of the dead, all of these people who did not die right and continue to haunt area because we have to absolving contradiction -- we have not resolved that contradiction it overshadows everything we do. it haunts, literally in some ways. host: do you think james baldwin

was as appreciated then as he is today? the things he was saying in his writing been, where they as appreciated and understood as well as they are today? caller: in sums -- prof. glaude: in some circles, yes. i think his genius was widely recognized. there was a series of assumptions made about the later work because the politics changed. baldwin at the height of his power according to some critics and scholars, this was right before the run-up to the civil rights movement if you think about the sermon mount -- the sermon on the mount and the notes of the native son. talking about the black person struggle in its first iteration. kings march on washington, you get classics. people did not want to hear that criticism, here his prophetic

critique post assassination of king and the context of reaganism. by the time cancer ravaged his body many folks were reading him as the old man who had gone bad and they wanted to hear his prophecy. host: you have obviously done a rod of -- a lot of research and study, want to talk about his unfinished menu strip prior to his death. what was that about? prof. glaude: it was supposed to be an autobiography of sorts organized around the death of medgar evers and malcolm x and martin luther king jr.. it was supposed to be a retrospective of what has happened in the country but is new from his vantage point. it was in some ways a warning, on account of who was lost and

why. a journey that is so distinctly american, given baldwin's beginnings. he was born in august of 1924 in the ghettos of harlem. he makes his way to paris to paris and becomes this extraordinary writer and witness of the black freedom movement. it was this summarizing account. that manuscript that was transcribed became the basis of my own -- of the critically acclaimed film. host: the professor is with us until 10:00 eastern this morning joining us to talk about his book and other issues. (202) 748-8001 the lime to use for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. all others, (202) 748-8002.

i think when you and i spoke last year book was about to be published or was coming out at that time. a year that saw a great deal of racial unrest and violence in the u.s.. if you had to add an addendum to your book or some observations on what has happened in the past year and the election of the biden administration, how would you address that? prof. glaude: the u.k. addition of the book came out in january. i wrote in the presses that addition, i pray that we don't treat -- the fantasy of donald trump with his belief that america must be a white nation -- i don't want us to hold onto the viewer believe this fantasy that somehow the election of the biden harris administration resolve the matter, that we ought to -- that their election

puts a grateful republic back. i heard the last collar, eye color in the last hour say she was sleeping well. i'm happy about that but she must understand we are still in a moment of crisis. the forces that are at work, they saw us in cpac and we are seeing it across the country. there are those that are insisting on america being and remaining a nation overdetermined by this belief that white people ought to matter more than others. we are confronting the new redeemers and we have to address them directly before actually going to move forward. >> let me ask you about specifics of the biden administration. late last month biden white house aims to advance racial equity with executive actions. we saw this past week that a house subcommittee considering the issue of reparations for

slavery, are these the right steps? prof. glaude: in part. i think reparations is a complicated conversation to have. if we are going to tell the truth about what we have done, the truth becomes the precondition for reconciliation and reconciliation becomes the basis for repair. repair involves deliberate policies to address the delivery policies that have introduced racial equality. i have been traveling all over black history month by zoom and one of the things i have been saying is that we have to understand that racial inequality is not a happenstance. it's the result of deliberate policy. of course there was slavery and jim crow. when we think about the emergence of the middle class it happened in a post-world war ii era where you saw government engaging and deliberate policy initiatives that lead to in some places the ownership within the country. african-americans were

systematically cut out from that, cut out in terms of fha loans and the g.i. bill. even those who own homes, our homes were devalued because of redlining. you think about this in relation to labor markets and extended segregated schools who have access to the princeton's, harvard's, yale's, and the oldness, -- ole miss. in other words, racial injustice, racial inequality in the united states is not a mistake in any sense that somebody -- it just randomly happened. people chose to do this. if we are going to respond we have to respond deliberately with policy. that is a long-winded answer to the question of reparations. i continue to think about student loan debt, that will disproportionately impact black folks. when need to think about raising

the minimum wage to $15 an hour. that will disproportionately impact whack or brown voters. it is one thing to do symbolic things with executive action but we need policy from the boater lights -- from the john lewis voter rights act, the george floyd criminal justice act, policy, that can be long-standing and transformational. host: do you think this presidency and congress are a moment to get that done? prof. glaude: we as a nation or in a moment where we can get this done. politicians inevitably disappoint. they are only as good as our demands of them. we need to keep pushing. we need to keep working hard, to respond to the crisis we face as a nation. we cannot allow ourselves to go back to normal, or what we have conceived of as normal. we have a chance, the moment of prusprecious develops to a momef

possibility. host: i want to get to our collars. we do want to play the comments of james baldwin, c-span covered this event in 1986 the year before he died, one of the regular press briefings -- speeches at the national press club. let's listen to james baldwin in 1986. mr. baldwin: i want to establish a modest proposal, white history week. [laughter] [applause] the answer to these questions is not to be found in me, but in that history which produce these questions. it is late in the day to be talking about race relations, what are you talking about? as long as we have race relations, how can they deteriorate? i am not a race and neither are you. [applause]

we are talking about the life and death of this country. and one of the things, i'm not joking when i talk about white history week. one of the things that most afflicts the country is that white people don't know who they are or where they come from. that's what you think i'm a problem. i am not the problem, your history is. as long as you pretend you don't know your history you will be the prisoner of it. there is no question if you're liberating me if you can't liberate yourselves. we are in this together. and, finally, when white people, quote unquote white people talk about progress with race relations with black people, all they can mean by the word progress is how quickly and thoroughly i become white. i don't want to become white, i want to grow up, and so should you. thank you. host: that's james baldwin, the writer, james baldwin, in 1986.

our guest has written a book about james baldwin. “begin again: james baldwin's america and its urgent lessons for our own.” what did you hear in that -- in those brief comments by james baldwin? prof. glaude: it hit the heart, in some ways it's a synopsis of this entire idea. the synopsis of his writing is a radical inversion. the problem of race in this country is not a problem with our of black people, it's the opposite. it's this problem centered around that we organize the country based on what i have called the value gap. it's a leaved that white people ought to be valued more than others. that valuation determines the distribution of advantage and disadvantage. baldwin is saying in that moment , race relations is actually a reflection of this sense that the problem is us, the problem is not us, it never has been. problem is the idea of blackness

and what it has unleashed on the world and in the world. until we tell ourselves of the truth and leave out these categories that free us and trap us and bind our feet, we will find ourselves on this racial hamster wheel over and over again. he said i am not the n word, i have never been, why do you need that word. until we figure out that we will find ourselves in this moment grappling with race over and over. the problem is not us. host: is interesting in those comments he talks about using white history week and he gets laughter from the audience. he always had that quality of being able to shock and in some ways humor people. prof. glaude: there is always a range of emotions that defines

baldwin. from rage to humor to love. even when he is at his most biting in terms of his criticism it is always saturated with love. there is this insistence that this nation, we are so intent on living in never never land forever, just lost boys and girls who refuse to grow up area what is so distinctive about never never land is the people that live there don't want to be responsible or accountable for anyone. baldwin is demanding in this moment, and that moment in 1986 and in our moment, i want to demand that we grow the hell up and finally imagine, this is something the modern world has never seen and that is actually

building a multiracial democracy , what would that look like? host: our first color is barbara in oklahoma city. caller: i'm so glad that we get to speak here. i just love mr. baldwin. he is so awesome. i want to speak on the fact that, yes, this is horrible, we had someone in there for five years that spoke so terribly against black people, against all minorities, but most black. we have 165 laws they are trying to get in that suppress voting right now and people talk about these immigrants, why have we never had a show on the fact that this man had to pay 25 million to immigrants that he hides from every day and not one time have i heard c-span say anything about that. he also had to pay for the university that was in a

university, a total scam. you don't talk about those things about him. these republicans call in every day and talk about how much they hate, how much they fear the democrats and the democrats are the ones, we don't have this fear for you. i love my brothers and sisters all. i'm so thankful for people like you that get up here and try to educate people. this is horrible to be shot in the back with a knee on the neck. these things should not pass. we should stop it right now and thank you so much, c-span, or letting this man get on here and talk. host: barbara in oklahoma. professor? prof. glaude: i appreciate her passion. it is that a motion, that depth of concern that sets the stage

for us to be otherwise, for us to finally break the back of this. every time a new america is about to be born in this country , every time a new america is about to be born the umbilical cord of white supremacy is wrapped around the baby's neck choking the life out. barbara's passion and commitment joined with others, we can become better midwives and finally give birth to a new way of being together, that is our task in this moment. host: this is derek in lakeland, minnesota. caller: good morning, c-span and america. i have been watching you on morning joe for years now, and i don't know what is up with the bubble in princeton. i do know that princeton use to sell -- i want to stick with what

baldwin just said in that clip that you read. he said he was not a race. i am not a race. i don't know why you are so abscessed with skin color. it boggles the mind. we are a multiracial democracy. look at the united kingdom. there is lots of multiracial democracies. i think it's disgusting. mostly of the things that you say, it's not very happy and it's not love. thank you. prof. glaude: i completely disagree. i'm saying it out of love. it's precisely because you hold whiteness as normal as transparent that you think that it's not functional. baldwin is trying to make an argument and i'm trying to make a claim that these politically moral positions have tangible effects, and your denial of that fact allows you to live in a country that has enormous inequality and it allows you to

presume a certain kind of innocence. i will not allow you to try to place it on me. your ugliness is yours and yours alone. don't try to place it on me. in fact i'm trying to help you see you and it's your refusal to see that fact that has in some ways help to produce this country and brought us to this moment. don't try to put that on me, that see you. host: robert is next up in aurora, indiana. caller: mr. glaude, i have good colored friends that i worship the ground they walk on. they are good, hard-working, honest people. you are educated. you are successful, and yet you want to run people down. this character you are talking about, all you do is write the books that mean nothing. working together, loving one another, taking care of our

country, our children that are hungry and homeless, that's what we need. we don't need this racism crap. prof. glaude: i would agree with that. we don't need this racism crap. we need to take care of all of our children, all of our children. we need to ensure that full are making -- if they are working 40 hours a week they are making a living wage. we need to ensure that people have health care and every community is safe and secure. your dam right we need that. i'm not colored, these are your friends. i think we also need to be honest with ourselves. let's understand what is really holding us back in this country. greed and racism is holding us back. greed and in some ways this insistence, this insistence on the superiority of certain human

beings. we have to finally uproot this at some point. i'm not colored and neither are your friends. host: let me ask you about the pandemic itself. the pandemic has struck communities of color much harder than other communities. what do you think will be the long-term effect? prof. glaude: as of late, just imagine, during the obama administration we could not have a conversation -- it could not break through mainstream political discourse. look where we are, we are talking about aca. we know that our health care system is broken, covid-19 has revealed it. we see where all the illness is located. the virus has metastasized and expanded fissures in our society. it's not simply over 500,000 americans have died and black and brown and native people are disproportionately represented in that group, poor, black and

brown and native and white people are disproportionately represented in that group, poor people. i think it's important for us to understand that what covid has revealed is how broken our public infrastructure of health and care actually is. we are spending as much money as we are spending trying to respond to the crisis because we have not put in place the kind of infrastructure care, to echo heather mcgee because we are afraid we are going to be giving out stuff to undeserving people and that usually maps onto poor and black and brown. it reveals the contradictions at the heart of the country. we have the courage and fortitude to respond in time. host: why do you think there is not enough unity and commonality between porky -- rural poor people as well as in similar