kids. very precarious situation and not safe. we can do better and i think these two policies are driving a lot of the unaccompanied child flow. >> now reports of the weekend the government is directing fema to had to the border. talking about what was happening with policy analyst mr. bier. from the cato institute. host: plenty off discussion on the sunday shows yesterday starting was senator cassidy republican from louisiana saying the biden administration is responsible for the crisis that is happening right now.

>> you cannot help but notice administration changes and there is a surge. one advisor said in spanish. [speaking spanish] which means the border is not closed. and then she said she most on - - misspoken said it is. the spanish version is being heard not english that is being reported in national newspapers as well. so when people think they can get in they began to send the unaccompanied child on aff train right across mexico where she may bein kidnapped and trafficked on the hope they will be waived throughout the border. this policy is leading to this surge. >> republican senator cassidy yesterday and also the response on fox news yesterday from chris murphy. >> it is bad it is getting worse. as we just reported fema will go down therep to try to help.

and we are not even in the peak migration. of april and may. >> listen. this is a challenge. the point i am making is you have the 11 year high in the border in the middle the trump presidency. so this idea. >> then it went down after that, sir. now under biden it comes back. >> it is more than double a from a year ago. >> but the point being that the evidence suggest it's not the policy of the us administration that drives migration to the united states but the desperation of the circumstances these people were living under. let's follow joe biden's advice putting money into helping quell the reasons for migration starting the program allowing kids to apply for asylum in their home country like honduras and guatemala

instead of waiting until they get here. there are things we can do but is not simply the policies of any administration to create the crisis. >> son discussion on fox news sunday yesterday. david bier on politics on capitol hill when it comes to u the border? >> if you go back in history in the eighties there was chaos in the border. bipartisan agreement about the chaos, 19 nineties , chaos, 2000 chaos, 2010 chaos on the' border. now 20 twenties. and there is still chaos. i would say pick your favor what type of chaos do you like? 2018 chaos of family separation at the border. americans did not appreciate that. 2019 kids in cages. americans did not support0 that policy. 2020 we had the pandemic that h is a big anomaly a huge decline in migration legal and

illegal and people were not traveling much in the summer of 2020. so we had a huge depression of the number people crossing the border mainly for that reason. but the policy the trump administration adopted during the pandemic and has continued is self-defeating and that policy of immediately excelling anyone crossing the border back into mexico means that those people are added to the flow of people coming into the country. you expel them out and then they come back that larger group back into mexico they come again with a new set of newcomers. that policy is driving the numbers higher and higher month after month since it was adopted in march and april of last year. so that policy is really inflating these numbers and

apprehension because people keep crossing again and again after they are immediately expelled and don't have a chance to apply for asylum. >> the numbers last month 100,000 persons intersected on the border last month at that .8 percent from the month before, 19000 family units among them, 9500 unaccompanied children among them taking your phone calls talking to david bier from the cato institute with the surge on the southern border. colorado and independent good morning. >>caller: good morning. thank you for taking myca call. thank you for taking my call last month when immigration was the topic of discussion. i am a libertarian my general

stance is all over i'm very much in favor of increasing legal opportunities but not all libertarians take that stance. can you provide insight as to why there is such a split among libertarians on the issue? >> can you also expand with the cato institute is? >> the cato institute is a nonprofit think tank located in washington dc founded 40 years ago we conduct research on a variety of topics over the last four decades including immigration. our principles and our research teaches us free market individual liberty and limited government are the path to a prosperous america. i would argue the libertarian principle. so why is there divide among

t libertarians? some people are not fully libertarian i would stay on all issues. that's not surprising. some people describe themselves as libertarians who disagree with a libertarian position on any number of issues. is not surprising there is some disagreement on this issue. i would say ultimately the belief among most libertarians and people who describe themselves as libertarian is that we should have a robust legal immigration policy allowing people to travel legally and freely to associate with americans and have americans associate with immigrants as they see fit. host: north carolina republican line good morning. >>caller: an american .democrat here this is not trump's fault everybody knows that even democrats admit that

but you are saying it is trump salt lake policy did over the weekend. your trying to create another narrative just like russia or kavanaugh. >> i think i explained what i think is happening i don't think it is one administration's fault if i think the biden administration has many options to prevent the situation from occurring. they can allow people to travel legally from their home countries. they can allow them to cross legally. they are not doing these things to prevent the crisis from escalating. in fact, they have maintained much of the trump administration's policies including the one of expelling most people who cross the border illegally.

i really don't see a big difference between one administration to the next. in fact, even when it comes to unaccompanied kids the policy of allowing unaccompanied kids to stay, started november before the biden administration took over. they chose to maintain it. that is fair. but despite the fact that is leading to the family separation that i described. at the end of the day, both administrations have a hand in what is happening today. host: two bills on the house floor this week the american dream and promise act the workforce modernization act. do either of these bills do anything what we have been talking about so far this morning with the immediate crisis on the border? >> only a very modest amount. you are talking about allowing some people who were deported as young children back into the country in order to allow them to apply for a legal status.

that is a good step to prevent some migrant children from showing about the border illegally after being removed by the trump administration. that's good policy and a step forward on the modernization act the h2 a visa program right now only for seasonal workers only temporary short-term employment to allow some year-round employment in agriculture. if you look at the types of jobs many workers are coming to do after they crossed the border, it is exactly this type of employment they are seeking, year-round lesser skilled jobs such as dairy and other places and livestock the need year-round jobs, year-round workers and cannot find any through legal means. so thishi will direct at least some of the legal on - - illegal flow into legal programs. that is a good thing for the

united states andom for border security. but it is a modest step. it really doesn't address theer bulk of people crossing the border right now. host: fort myers florida independent good morning. >>caller: thank you for taking my call. i hope you give me a little time because i'm making a comparison. i was born into world war ii i was barely seven when we came to this country. you have to have a sponsor in the united states to pay for everything. your trip over here, your lodging, food and medical until you can stand on your own 2 feet not even the poor jews could come over. they had to go through the same process.

so america, this is nothing new. as far as children goes, i never had a passport. i had to be in my father's. if i would have gotten lost know when would have known whom i belong to. i don't understand why we can't have something similar like a sponsorship? and another thing i think about. >> let's focus on that aspect. >> absolutely. this is something we have suggested at the cato institute the biden administration adopt a private refugees sponsorship model so people in the united states can voluntarily choose to sponsor someone who wants to come to this country legally whether from central america or elsewhere. that is a huge step forward. unfortunately the biden administration hassi done nothing with the refugee program so far.

they have not increased that cap and that is part of the problem. there are no visas or refugee programs. people will continue to cross illegally and thatt is exactly what we are trying to prevent from happening. the sponsorship model would work great that's how most immigrants come to this country either through employer family sponsorship those who are immediate familyar talking about your spouse or parents or your c child or your siblingor who can sponsor you but if it was expanded to allow other relatives to sponsor you, that is a great way to allow more legal immigration and better options for people fornt safety in this country. host: democrat good morning out of los angeles. >>caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. when you watch some of the

right wing right leaning news organizations or listen to them or publications, they all tell the fact a lot of people are getting through since biden has taken office. that is note true. they are catching them and sending them back to mexico. one of the accomplishments donald trump touted was the wall that he built what happened to the wall and why isn't that stopping people from getting through and then being caught and sent back? and these people are coming here for work. the idea has been bounced around to issue work permit igvisas for people from the country of origin so they can come legally in work at a farm and after six months go back to the homeland. wears that idea? thank you. >> on the wall, yes, much of

the wall was built, hundreds of miles of border fencing built. very high structures, 20 for structures, it really does not affect the flow of people that go across the rio grande where there is no wall on a rafter they walked up to the wall and turn themselves in because they t seek asylum you're not trying to sneak into the country. the border wall had no effect on migration. it was supposed to be the silver bullet the trump administration took money away from the military to build it. they didn't invest aslo much as they should have an infrastructure along the border like border patrol stations or for people who cross, these are at a shortage right now and that is why you see kids without soap on the border because the trump administration port all of its money into enforcement. in fact there was a gao report about congressional many

designated for kids in border patrol facilities along the border they spent the money on dog food and suvs and other expenditures for themselves. that is part of the reason why we're at such a humanitarian crisis with kids there is no place to put them. the money went into enforcement. with work visa, that's exactly what we have been talking about absolutely we need work visa i also agree the majority of the flow is economic base. we have more than 6 million open jobs in this country right now. many of them are ones that are difficult to fill in allowing foreign workers to come in and fill those jobs with the legal program. with cc know workers are insufficient they are a tiny

percentage of theto total labor force, total jobs we need year-round employment because most of these workers are going to year-round jobs and instruction places there is no visa program at all. right now there is a visa program for seasonal farm labor. it's highly regulated is very difficult for farmers to use. but there is that program. most all of the visas go to mexican central americans are essentially shut out. we need to think of a new model for year-round employment work visa for central americans to address the flow of illegal migration at the border. host: david orlando asks before leaving get to the border wall, why is mexico letting people cross their country to get to the united states? >> they arete not.

they are trying to stop the flow. they have invested a lot in their enforcement the last fewfi years. but the reality is it is very difficult to police people crossing through their country. they make enormous number of arrests. in fact in 2019 they deported more central americans from statesthan the united deported from this country. they are much poorer country than the united states. so the amount they are investing relative to their national wealth is extraordinary and at this point in 2021, their economy is tanked, the amount of joblessness in mexico and declining tax receipts come i am surprised they are willing to do anything at all about the number of people crossing meto their country. what is in it for them is beyond me other than the fact they are trying to appease the us administration who wants them to do it.

host: hampton virginia republican good morning you are on with david bier from the cato institute. >>caller: good morning. when i came into the conversation, you guys are asking why would art libertarian be against open borders? there is a chart www. fair .us.org the state cost of illegal immigration the americanax taxpayers spend over $84 billion annually to subsidize illegal immigration. i'm from virginia we spend one.9 billion. if you are interested that is why education, medical food and housing. we have americans that need

the same. thanky you. >> that is certainly something people will site for opposition to immigration. i have never heard a libertarian site the cost of medicaid as a reason why they should enforce drug or alcohol prohibition or other intrusions into the liberty of americans and the free association rights. i don't think it's reasonable to say that just because there are some expenditures that happen when people arrive in the united states, that's a reason to deprive them liberty and those of americans who want with these people but with the repair one - - the report you are citing is false department of homeland security in a regulatory rulemaking put out official statistics on the non- citizen use rate of welfare and they found absolutely no difference

between that and the nativeborn from using welfare. so the idea that they are the ones driving up the budget cost or causing the deficit has not been borne out by the statistics available. host: out of idaho this morning democrat good morning. >>caller: good morning. have a simple question how you not a traitor to the american people when you support the invasion of america by illegal trash? >> you want to take that? we can movehe on. >> certainly i think there is nothing traitorous about wanting to have the immigration policies our foundersni that the history of the united states welcoming immigrants to this country. certainly not welcoming them legally to this country which is what i advocate to do.

they are crossing legally. without that they would have to cross the legally which is what i've been saying from the very beginning. this is the founders policy adopted the very first act on this subject no immigration, federalal restrictions and obviously through the years we have a policy a restriction and to the point where now most people who want to come to this country illegally have no option to do so we need a change of illegal immigration policy to ultimately address the border. >> changingst that policy in the last five minutes the american dream and promise act the workforce modernization act we expected to get votes on the house floor this week the larger biden proposal, do you

expect to get the bipartisan support that has 50 votes right now in the senate any appetite? >> absolutely not they have poisoned that well completely by not inviting any republicans to the table. zero outreach. they treated this as a messaging bill from the start. it is about his non- bipartisan as you can get. so that bill doesn't address the temporary worker programs or the work visa options that are needed to address the flow and that is part of why moderate republicans who more or less agree with my position about legal immigration are supporting it. does not address the waiver

needs of farms or seasonal employers or address the needs of construction and other industries that need workers to be hired legally. host. >> good morning. i don't know what these people fwill be doing being from california i don't now i guess he doesn't know all farm work now is about mechanized. they have tomato pickers, lettuce, potato and onion pickers they don't need people anymore. >> today still use people? >> absolutely. especially with fruit crops, blueberries, apple pickers i and then it has to be handled by hand would be

destroyed by machine. and ultimately if you want to move offshore and import all the blueberries some other countries and then give farmers the option to create jobs and then ultimately the odownstream effect of agricultural production here. host: waterford new york republican good morning. >>caller: good morning. i hope you're having a good morning. host: same to you. >>caller: my comments are i read an article by nbc news march 2 that talks about covid positive immigrants were allowed into brownsvillele texas. so is catch and release going

on? mailer, it has to i do with and then abruptly how it came to a stop the construction stopped through all sorts of areas where people to get through this makes it sounds like the wall is completed but that is completely different from the fact it was never completed and the cameras were never put up. that was a very interesting show. finally i wonder why people say walls don't work when we have one around the capital. >> on the wall there are parts that were not completed. but where most is happening in the rio grande valley along the river, that is not where

the reporter while was being proposed. there is some border while there but even in that place, you cannot build a border wall alongoo the river because it will not get down when it floods. ultimately it has to push in land thatlo allows the crossings to happen. at the end of the day a border wall is not preventing the flow of people. they are still coming, climbing the wall, going to the wall, cutting through the wall in a kid what you do numerous places that has t been pointed out even by border patrol agents. the idea the border wall is the answer, luck. if you want to keep spending on this many diverting away from resources that are more pressing like facilities to house people, legal ports of entry where we went to facilitate legal travel, you can do that but you will still try to come to

this country and that is the reality of the border wall. host: quickly about covid rates among those crossing into the country and being released. >> yes. the reason why we know the covid release rate or the positivity rate is for the migrants is they are being tested before they are released. people who are testing positive are voluntarily quarantining themselves with nonprofits who were doing testing of released migrants. it is very small relative to the big flow nearly three quarters of people immediately put back into mexico much smaller flow of people are being released, unaccompanied children, families and very young children are being released. but for the most part people are being held. those that are not are being

tested. even there the testing for the migrants is half the rate of what it is. so the idea they are driving a covid outbreak is not based on any kind of reality. host: immigration policy analyst at cato institute you can see david bier work at cato.org we appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you . . . .

>> host: reshma saujani, what is that? >> guest: it is a movement to close the gender gap in computer science technology. when i started "girls who code" less than 80% of the workforce was female so at a time where 40% of america's breadwinners were women and at a time when we were needing innovation we were missing women at the table so we spent the