french. the majority of people were on the fence. not sure if i should get covid-19 vaccine this year. those people, for interview six of the six different reasons, are all about to meet people where they are waiting hyper localized communication campaign two. to watch the rest of this program visit our website booktv.org. use the search box at the top of the page and look for seema gassman or the book viral bs. book tv in prime time starts now. first, andino talks about his reporting on antifa an argus at the group poses a threat to democracy. and then "washington post" investigative reporter emma brown examines what boys are taught about masculinity and manhood. also tonight, actor and healthcare advocate michael j

fox reflects on being diagnosed with parkinson's at the age of 29. living with the disease in his foundation's work to find a cure for georgetown university law professor rosa brooks details her experiences and policing after becoming an armed reserve police officer in washington d.c. and now, andino. >> hello and welcome to trigonometry. and this is the show for you if you want honest conversation with fascinating people. our bright and returning guest today is an independent journalist and author of un- mass insight and cheapest radical plan and eight welcome back to trigonometry. >> and very happy to be here to again. >> were very happy to hand you back andy. we had you on the work last time shortly after you were assaulted. we talked about antifa we talked about that a lot. since in april and may of 2020

we saw the process in and see if that. really taking over several cities in america did some great work. for anyone who does not know it antifa is, or who is never heard of this issue before, hey baby frankly is not seen any coverage because some of the stuff you have been posting on social media, footage from the scenes, never made it to mainstream television or on news certainly this country. so just give everybody a big picture overview. what is antifa? what's been happening in america the last year? >> antifa as a violent extremist movement and calmness with the explicit goal of destroying liberal democracies. they have seen significant rise particularly since the election of donald trump and late 2016. instead of just being a far left movement on the fringes they have moved into the mainstream america.

both through periodic and frequent brawls and rights in cities like brooklyn, seattle, s going to the point of throughout 2020 mast simultaneous riots in dozens of cities coordinated street violence, attacks, the use of mortar explosives and even in the case of where i am from, portland, we had a homicide murder. so they've taken over several city sensors. there's one in portland recently as well. what is there, there's a lot of people have not filed this, it's hard to tell the protest, is there a connection there? of these two organizations working together? how do you see that part of it? >> they are working together.

they do have different ultimate agendas. broadly antifa, they are made up of communists who believe that they can -- we can organize under communism without the use of a big government otherwise known as jazz they will create the sort of lawless areas where they say they don't need the state, they don't need the law enforcement just they don't have in order of course we know in the case of chaz we had two homicides there, several shootings. in the case of portland contrast that alone which what is theoretical very classic

revolutionary marxists. who are about sneaking into the institutions of the state. and main stream in the marxist agenda pray this is very systematic attack on free markets for the using under the guise of racial justice. so this is among overlap from the opposition to state particular united states of america opposition to capitalism, a course opposition and hatred, murderous hatred of law enforcement. spent cross pollination. you see antifa implements some of the intersectional ideology that is prevailing. and also the usage of their black lives matter and all about. to the point that when i described antifa, at least in america, i was feeling --

anti, there such linked entities. ultimately their ideologies will clash. one is calling for essentially at the italian state. the other one is calling for anarchy. >> that will be great wouldn't it? >> that be very simple. we got antifa pickup blm. surely we need to take into account there are a lot of lotta people have got no idea about antifa the got no idea about these hardline marxists views. where these people come in? the people who just got on the march maybe once he social justice they want to black people been treated more fairly. >> so i don't feel happy to described in this way, but i would recall there being used as it is essential. both of these movements, use

the cloak of racial justice and social justice to shield themselves from criticism. so for example, i have spoken boldly and opposition for letting me being beaten 2019 and my family threatened and subjected to death threats. their response was how could you be against a movement that calls himself anti- fascists if you are against black lives matter, that means you are against black people. so, this is what makes these movements so clever. the branding of it in the slogans and all of that allow a certain amount of deflection of criticism. and unfortunately they use that very well. the media has not applied their critical lengths on the

extremist record for the violent extremist ideology and actions. they've been giving free passes sprayed their people on the left i would state liberals who office it they hear something like being against fascism, being against antiblack racism, being against race. [inaudible] these larger protests at a moment turn into violent riots. and that is what happened, i witnessed myself from portland after george floyd was under this banner of black lives matter and racial justice. there was really no way for

these protests to not be hijacked from violent extremists who did it over, and over, and over print and in the case of portland daily riots every day. happening every night since then have been now weekly since about september. this is an issue that's not going away. people assumed wrongly that after the election went of joe biden and november, this is the end of antifa comment democrats coming to power with it it's not an issue wrong. we had really bad riots in portland and seattle, just the day after the election. we were recording this just on the heels of what happened on new year's eve in portland of dozens and doses of rioters trying to break into a government building in downtown with hammers, easing hatches, the came with explosives, they were throwing

explosives that police. they were throwing homemade paint bombs that had been laced with a caustic substance. and the thing is been posting throughout the year going through public records finding out names, finding charges finding books and photo spread i released all of this. i look into all of this. it's the overwhelming majority of these people, particularly in the left wing cities have the charges dropped. so the underlying variables that have made antifa such a destabilizing threat and some american cities the variables are still here and will remain to be here. >> i just want to touch on. they go out and they be their marches and the rest of it. it's not just people, if you look at the premier league,

which is its football not soccer. all costs right around the world. i've brightens had got talent where they have pictures of the black lives matter. why is it, is not just individuals but corporations as will be taken in by this. >> this is what makes the movement dangerous in my opinion. there's not enough on the larger scale relatively isolated incidents of street violence. they are isolated at the aggregate level but what makes them dangerous is the ideology is mainstream, not just mainstream democrat politicians, you look at corporations, look at very big influence figures. the mayor of london apparently approved having these logos blasted out on new year's eve fireworks celebrations.

>> is how about unity, andy. >> yes more as they chant for police officers to be killed. in the case of portland, nobody would come out to criticize antifa because they believe these people are fighting for a noble cause. this is the thing too, these corporation these capitalist corporations who have benefited immensely under free markets, counts on money to minute his radical nonprofit organizations that are working to improve both society. in the case of portland we actually have one antifa organization called snap block who recently got nonprofit status. they actually got one at a 45 u.s. telegram to the federal government that was disbursed to the state of oregon and

local officials gave one had $45000 to support covid relief. and you go on their social in look there posting pictures of police officers drawing to them being decapitated. re- tweeting promotional flyers for riots events earlier this year. it's like, we are funding our own destruction in the west, here in liberal democratic state. >> you brought up the involvement of corporations. as you explained since the last time we had john the show, one of the biggest problems in your city of portland, the mayor is also the police commissioner. and so until very recently, he was very much on their side it would seem. and essentially what i want to ask you is how has this happened then? maybe this is the russian in me coming out. if people wanted to burn stuff down on the streets of moscow,

that this has happened in america for eight months. how has this been allowed to happen? we've seen police there trying to do something about it why is it impossible for these people to set up autonomous zones, how is that been enabled and by whom? the consequences of mainstreaming ideology of nc for real life consequences and that it has been very through teaching and law enforcement in america to the point of where you have police departments in major cities like portland, seattle, new york where they essentially hemorrhaging and on top of that they're being defunded in the case of new york city

$1 billion and slashing the budget skyrocketing. one level a lack of resources and being able to respond many offices resigning portland police department no one wants to go into what should be a noble institution policing. so your doctor when you get attached some unfortunate cases, killed for political reasons. for as a lack of resources. then there is also the political involvement in these calculations for things that the mayor and let say of portland who is the police commissioner, even beyond him

the city council exert immense political pressure over police departments and not just in portland but in any city. even though they are supposed to be passed from another, they are linked. if a police department has no political support of the city council and elected officials, it will really restrict what they will do. so in the case of portland, in addition to the policing issues they also have a so-called progressive prosecutor who is elected. our district attorneys known as prosecutors this is an elected position. you can imagine in a city like portland or seattle or it is entirely left wing and like progressive. will be politically motivated and prosecution happened in seattle, and in portland we

had something new came in his campaign on a platform of restorative justice, which essentially means going easy on criminals. so in portland you had over 1000 arrestees and of that more than 90% heather charges dropped. for the same people literally, luther my posts of antifa mugshots to see these people being arrested three, four, five, six, seven, eight, times there arrested in jail they get let out with nobels in their back out the charges are dropped. and they just of the same thing again. you can set is important he deceived other cities all these issues are coming together create, is an erosion rule of law. also like foundation norms in society, one that we do not sell disagreements through violence and their people

doing that to the point of where you see commentators on news media. you see opinion pieces and biggest papers of record arguing property destruction is not violent. that is a major talking point on the liberal latin america. >> over here as well. so, this is what i mean in my book when i say this is what radical and dangerous. i'm not talking about instances of them are rioting for one night or two nights is quite extraordinary when more than six months of violence. on behalf of that you have people now who are openly, physically assaulting people who have political disagreements with them. they're getting cheered on for it by frequently politicians, main stream media they will

turn a blind eye to it. so, like i have a lot of despair and my warnings to the city going back i do portland and other places in america going back years and are writing about this issue for a long time. i did not want to be right. i was not only right, i underestimated. i did not think they could have done what they did, particularly in my hometown in 2020. they were able to carry out six months upon and get away with it essentially very, very few people have been held accountable. one issue is a lot of them cannot be identified because of the backlog frugally when they are identified charges are dropped anyway. it's for other places an american more broadly to see what political trends happen in america is also the

exporter to your country. taking root in britain. strict thanks for that. nick i'm sorry. country has an entirely different history and context for relationship between police officer and citizens. also the history of black citizens here. but for some reason beale m has taken root here anyway. this is why it really is a worldwide threat i think to liberal democracy. and the damage that it has been able to do in just a mere three and a half years has been immense. these issues are not going away. still have continue to rise their multiple cities that have coordinated new year's eve riots.

likely going to continue mike i before all of the variables are there in the so-called threat of fascism from the trump administration. it's always a pretax or in excuse for violent extremist behaviors. if it's not one thing it's another thing. it is not police sits america itself. when you see them defacing democratic politicians with the scribbling cancel rents in all of this, >> that's right. this is what i have been trying. so i hope not. read my book because this threat to america is not just a threat to the american rights. it's really going at the heart of american institutions which includes the democrat party.

we've had for example one of the new city council members they were antifa rioters who showed up to his home and began breaking things because of punishment against the funding further portland police. his eight left winger. we have these extremists, they have no issues targeting the left when they want to. so, their own state to essential vietnamese heritage has is a long and troubled history of the far left particular. do you think is the reason you are more sensitive to these particular groups? you were able to see through,

or as people who are your eight or below have no real knowledge of far left politics and the dangers these kind of groups can cause. >> yes. journalists are trained to remove themselves from the story for good reason, right? do not want to make yourself part of the story on things you are reporting on. for me, as i was writing about antifa going back several years, i just found that it was extremely hard to sort of entirely remove myself and my family's experience living through a communist revolution. going to prison camps, being persecuted for entirely political reasons. mears a lot of what i'm seeing people on the american far left stating that they want to do essentially.

are they saying we want to put people in camps near embed yourself in that process is out there talking about? >> is not an exaggeration they tried to kill and got themselves killed as well. people say antique is not a deadly movement of flick within done. in 2019 you had a man in the book, charles who is in eugene oregon is a small college town very left wing. shortly going into school and attempt to shooting on school resource officers. killed police killed pigs is deeply involved in the movement and eugene he got killed in the process of his attack. later in the year you had

tacoma washington state, he firebombed an immigration facility. he came in the rifle, got killed in the process but bluebook harper there's connor betts in ohio who killed nine people and eight mass shooting. who had a long history of activism. including in the black slot. and just months ago in portland we had some one who quote innocent he said he was anti- for following a trump supporter waiting on the corner ambushing and shooting him dead right in downtown and fling to another state before getting killed by federal authorities. those are all individual cases which i obviously think a very sad it should not be encouraged at that does not necessarily mean because there are a few wackos in that movement, those people are

then representative of the ideas behind the movement. what we were talking about initially is your vietnamese background. when we get all this. are they actually saying we need to have that for wrong thinkers. when they're not calling for the to be killed. the so-called dissidents for people they suspect of not been completely on their side in areas where they have territory and be journalists and their so-called autonomous zones. they even had one of my friends and acquaintances, whose reporting video in the thomas zone, the song with the camera and they try to pull him into interrogation ten for they had set up there.

and in the interrogation said not sure pretending. his name is kalin, you can go online and look at his testimony for that. i mean police were called, he was dragged before use escaped. don't just have to look at what they say. you look at their actions. even though they say they are against government, what essentially they want to create is a totalitarian system. essentially because their opposition is not just to people who say things that they disagree with. they don't want you to think differently, which is why they spend so much in getting people banned on social media so exploiting the bias prevailing's on big tech decision media companies. in their opposition band. getting them fired, releasing

information where they live, work, et cetera. and terrorizing their opponents. so i don't think, there is a certain amount of parallels. and yes there are differences obviously with the vietnamese common museum from the american contest. probably it's about a revolutionary far left politics about achieving their goals by any means necessary including violence. think i know they have the power they would imprison their political opponents if they did not kill them outright. you can look at their actions on the small-scale level. when they actually have gained power temporarily in the time the messiah but they do to people. >> was typical member of antifa? do they tend to be one particular background or another or they spread far and wide from every echelon of society? >> it is spread far and wide.

going to expel that they're all middle-class wealthy people. some of them are upper-class as well. [laughter] some of them to represent people who are university educated and white-collar jobs absolutely. ashley and tivo is so serious there's public records of these booking photos of six months of arrests in portland because it exposed some of them were white-collar jobs which are nurses, doctors, professors, academics, being university. it private situations. there is all about. but i would say really it includes, this is what -- i mean, society appeals to people who are -- do wellin america. as well as people who are

really vulnerable. this is kind of where i have a certain compassion the right word sympathy for some of these people who have used tools, but soldiers many of them are vagrants. many urgent with mental health issues. many of them have gender dysphoria, and they are being pulled into an ideology movement that promises them community, purpose, belonging, you have a uniform you have an identity and a label that you go under as an antifascist. recall antifascist. they have a lot of literature as well. booklets pamphlets, you read your book on masks.radicalism a lot of brainwashing for people who go from being

pathetic to some of the things of state racial justice to eventually being one of the people who mask up and bring knives, or tasers and other firebombs to riot content to kill people. this process happens, not spontaneously but through these radicalization's. this take us through a period i am disaffected with society. i'm very progressive in my mindset. maybe have got some mental health issues. here i am, i have come in and your job is to get me to the point where i'm ready to go on a riot, how does that happen? >> i see in portland they have it down through the street militants. there are other antifa groups who don't explicitly engage in

the street violence. but they do things like community events, supported like direct actions while they do things that offensively look like charity work. mr. reading food to those in the community. pressing possibility. all of that, if you go to any of these events in addition to the food and supplies that they are distributing for free they will always have tables of their booklets. it's very similar actually to i would say like a radicalization process of the muslim brotherhood or other islamicist or even jihadist really. you introduce them to certain theories. there's about why capitalism is inherently linked to racism. how it is connected to slavery. and how america has protected capitalism property, free markets, is imperialist state

of race that supports upholds white supremacy. a lot of these ideas with academic intellectual. simplified in these booklets and pamphlets of the report on your times but we have to portland to cover some these violent protest and riots in portland wrote about some of these booklets and pamphlets. really angry about that sort of national spotlight that are brought to him there very few people that pay attention. another table like things that people are handing out. actually france and very important part of introducing with all radical ideas. the same thing they have on thomas zone in portland. start building friendships, these friends are introducing these extremist ideas.

they have gatherings and meetings. in the case for which my book published some of their documents. for the first time they will have a curriculum that is kind of like the university curriculum. they will meet weekly in a secret place will have a set of literature that each well they are supposed to wine. opponents of the central themes customer i am, pamphlet about my sandwich. >> there are problems of capitalism. ivy's because america inherently racist or whatever. now i've to a meeting for the first time. what are you telling me to it get me into that? >> the main themes of the main points of the radical ideas that they are to brainwash people into believing, is that non- violence empowers the state. and the state imports fascism. all of the property rights are

linked to racism are linked to the system of supremacy. subjects of these two things hatred of nation and hatred of property rights. those are probably the two main ideas. particularly hatred for law enforcement because they view law and enforcement as the literal enforcers of the rules. >> they say it's fascist they are than the fascist boots on the ground and forcing the fascist laws. rebecca's whole using black lives matter in opposition to belief is just -- it is been a very convenient and perfect way for them to make the really extreme ideas to the wider public. and they have been unsuccessfully look at the calls to defund and abolish police happening in city councils across america. >> and they don't -- us on a process of indoctrination but it's physically how they fight, they get taught how to do various other things as well. can you delve into that for us?

>> the really organized militant antifa groups are extremely secretive. they explicitly have a membership process and all intensive purposes they are a gang. they will plan out criminal violent activity praise of the keep all the activities secret. and oppress the who are unfortunately not curious and have not dived into uncover how they organize. : : :

>> not one entity there any groups and networks and toward network's network that is probably the most violently militant. but they have chapters and other cities. so there's a blueprint for how they organize and i think that was really what was really talking about the curriculum these about their holding these secret meetings at a bookstore in portland. from the outside it looks so that you would never think that the feminist bookstore was allowing its space to be used by extremist. literal violence extremist i would say that is apparent by this. i spent so much time into brainwashing and the violence is a necessity to achieve their goals. to for you said in your book was

very interesting is that you examine but the science is like everything under the sun from this is nothing new predict so i think it was a group in the 60s and also the far left in the far right organization and also in germany and the warriors could you explain such a little bit about that as well. andy: since trump is into office, the american national and western countries have gone into overdrive and focusing entirely on violence that come from the far right and racist and really small nuts a groups. it is small but i think they're paying attention to the americas have history of far left violence in extremist people my age aren't aware of that we had

this violence in the 60s and 70s which because of the law enforcement imprisoning some of these numbers are members charging them a and any of them in cuba where they were given refugee status there. so america has had a history of violent extremism people of filled on enforcement and carried out bombings for example. germany as well. so there is this history in building blocks that it from to do what they would do today and there's a gap in the collective american memory that i will say a far left extremism. that's absolutely quite intentional about the media. they downplay it they ignore it entirely. you can contrast what we had in

2019 and the u.s. and there was a reportedly far right racist white supremacist who killed some 20-something people out of walmart people the majority of the latino background that received a lot of media attention. one because it was a masculine into because potential racist links and allegations that into that but within 24 hours after that there was a massacre in ohio and amassed shooter who he looked through his social media history, was not just like he was explicitly violence against the right. he carried out a mass shooting. if they did not get as much attention from attention at all. >> is is what happened in 2016

comes, the media not only because he's a shocking figure two people on that sort of liberal like what you guys call it liberal air but on the left let's say. for left-wing the person in the media tea is there a election of donald trump is a shocking of the system. and you're going well he needs to be got rid of by any means necessary. sue started like okay, step may be happening but let's just focus on getting rid of donald trump is what happened. andy: that is what happened. the syndrome is fully particular call him before his election led long distinguished career. and i may have been biased but not to the level of what i would call really unprofessional behavior and reporting accusing out. >> was really that in mind, you alluded to your opinion that

earlier. trump, he is gone. when brilliant new mixed-race figure and racism is over everything's going to be wonderful. there is no more need for violence because were going to do something about it. andy: [laughter] if only that was the case. the thing is that if you been paying attention. particular throughout 2020, shifted call clearly away from opposition to trump to opposition to the united states itself. southern not going to be satisfied until the destroy anything and everything they can. that goals there really can not ever really be achieved and that it is not one is you that they are protesting against, it's another. there's another after that. these people can never ever be

satisfied printed menus that you you are against white supremacy and fascism and you define it in a way they define it which includes anything and everything. that means they can never be achieved so there always would have a reason to be violent. always have a reason to be violent in portland and atlanta and other cities on new year's eve. because it is the new year. new year to renew dedication to fighting racism and fascism to liquid rocket in downtown portland. saw clear enough that this is violent extremist industry, you can just look like it who they say that they are inspired by and take their influence from which is the original end date paramilitary of the german communist party printed that would be the original people. logos you see today are the

flags based on the design from that originally. the original paramilitary of the germany engaging in street fights, and germany not just against the fascist but actually the social democrats, they're beating up all political opponents and they were creating this political climate of polarization in germany and into west germany and making the wider public just wanting all that street political violence to end. think of economic part of that contact helped pave the way for the appeal of some of these like, what the hitler. >> so what you're saying is a really not fascist the pro- anarchy. andy: in chaos. yes. and actually think a lot of them

are probably, they use that trump going out so well to bring in new allies. they carefully have now switched the enemy from trump to law enforcement. and they have been successful premium people there. all that really takes a simple video of some unfortunate video that was taken out of context to mobilize not just thousands been tens of of people. much to my country but your country as well. other countries around the world as well. that's how effective the messaging has been. all the biden is more moderate democrat, look at the people who like aoc and people like others radical people who are representatives in congress, one

of any that they have such an upsizing law and influence in the parties. a large influence on the parties. there messaging will play into these decisions in my opinion my predictions of the doc. >> so, we look at these type of people who are enrolled in this ideology anarchy asked them what castmate 500. obviously it's not in anybody's interested these people are successful. so how do you think of this group and also the ideology. andy: the movement itself means essentially been what's done in the past, how the law enforcement in the u.s. to an terrorism a far left communist

revolutionary in the 70s was to arrest and prosecute in jail those who are involved in these criminal activities. that usually distracted their networks predict enforcing all these people have been released from prison and have been incorporated into a left-wing activism. and they look over the past criminal actions. you don't necessarily need new laws although nothing your country have laws that prescribe certain organizations that are flighted to the far right groups and i think that should be applied in america we don't have this type of laws because of how strong our first amendment is. anything that can be interpreted as persecuting people for their

belief even if there violent extremist leaves, you can have a radical belief and still be protected and is not even legal or illegal to be a member of these groups. so he needs to happen is the rioters are being arrested. if not being held accountable so this is an issue with prosecutors are being elected. i'm not sure what the solution would be. obviously people waking up and realizing going on right or just they say they are doing it for noble cause and things like that. this really requires a paradigm shift in thinking in their american minds. we actually elect prosecutors for up hold the law for unit.

>> do think the most americans don't or have not been educated about the evils of the far left pretty. andy: absolutely. not a lot of knowledge. people are not even aware when far left communist itself in the 70s number doing bank robberies and killing law enforcement and bring up bombing attacks, they just don't know about it. anytime you ask them about right wing extremism, everybody can remember thanks. deli things go. this is somewhat related is just like a man killed in charlottesville. like her name is regulate magenta. and should be mentioned because her elected matter. the erin danielson shot important, and nobody knows name nobody understand of the

politicians cutters his name is instilled by some he was part of an diva. >> you thank you so a lack of the moral equivalence between civic is a far right extremist justice the most evil thing that you can think of on the races, prejudice, bigoted, you targeted to slavery. all that sort of stuff. on the far left it's easier to be season printed probably well-intentioned on that they just want everybody to be equal. like there's that lack of judging on the basis of the act because we thought that this burger was better than this bernard. because of the motivation of the violence. andy: and that's the problem. reinforced by media that it's wrong to criticize of the far left in the far right in the same breath because of not when

they can't be compared because the far even if they are violent, they're doing it for racial justice and that you go down that path of thinking the rational conclusion is a densely to violence and extremism. because it is like well is for this cause of oppressive or racial minorities or in things. it's okay to advocate for violence against these people because were fighting for internet cause printed for me is in material really to what the goal is if the actions carried out lead to violence, murder, terrorism. so i think i'm being consistent in my condemnation of the far left in the far right. i wish the media would be as well. anything the other thing is for

my personal experience the threats that come from and directed at me make it more personal. this is real. like murder and that strategic space problems recently in portland. they wrote my name and address so, it's unfortunate that they been very much solidarity with me from other people in the same field and absolutely is a lot of other journalists have received hate. but you know if any journalists even just some contributor to small publication received explicit threats from gnostic of the whole industry would rally for that person. all these organizations what as well. i reported to tracker another groups.

they used to get back to me and they don't anymore. they come to frequent them to anything. they don't do anything. i have had my country my home with the ongoing threats and the lack of action from law enforcement even through my own investigations. people who post with guns and say all of this type of stuff. prosecutors choosing not to prosecute. my before last year, we talked just a few months after my debriefing last year. that it would lead to an arrest. enter my own legal counsel,

center for american liberties we had to finance our own private investigation put in hundreds about our own hours to cover some of these people. and once that information was provided to the police the attorney general, nothing was done. unfortunately had to go through the civil route. and be criminal criminally responsible pretty. >> we talk about the academic side of it and the fact that on the left and i want to condemn people. and look, isn't just the fact that they are cowards. because they can do the right thing, to stand up verbally and say you are wrong. andy: yes pretty i've encountered a lot of cowards in the line of work that i do. and even while this is the issue

of you two are not partisan but i'm a conservative myself but because of the political testimonies that the left house, the make it quite consequential for those people who are critical of the lofgren even the far left. i don't know what it will take for that to change. don't want input to happen by the way. i don't know would not want the industry to say let's dominated by the right and right that was unwilling to condemn the far right extremism. so moment ago you had asked what is it take and ideologically i think that hopefully throughout like what i am doing was enough where i spent months and months for the american at the center of the events for violence and looking at not just on the

organized gift their funding of the carry out coordinating mass violence but what do they actually believe what is it mean that they say that they are proposing capitalism when there really closing something else. white supremacy was actually me. main. it is a very clear view into what happens when their ideology is actually implemented in a character he and a densely did to death and violence and conflict of property. this did not get as much media attention but they actually create their own barricades like what they did and timothy have defining character pretty. >> yes they know the ball. andy: yes it evolved and then a buffer zone. and every day was leaning further and further out in the set booby-traps.

literal booby-traps. spikes made laid out boards with nails sticking up but you could do not drive-in. they have strategically point where they have cocktails and rocks they could use a sort of their like the tax barriers like they were doing this this was the official messaging that they were protecting a black indigenous family from being removed from their home and evid from their home in the winter. which was rubbish, a lie. family had been squatting in property that they didn't pay anything for for three years thousand 2017. in the legal process played out in the judgment the court judgment rejected it in these people were illegally squatting and this was the people of four with weapons inside of the property. so this is the type of people that they and then the media

just as long wet protecting the black indigenous people from eviction in the winter printed. >> coverage of this is you has been embarrassing from my publications which is why the grateful that people like you they can kinda talk about its predict and as you say francis and i are not far from his issue but we are partisan on nonviolence. and on her rule of law. i think everybody should be partisan on that sort of thing. andy: will it is on the right wings position according to people who follow. >> logically i can see it if you think that it clashes and you think property rights are fascism than evicting someone from the property whether they are squatting is fascism. under that definition. his normal thing for people to look at previous rights and for my thing a lot of people but they become involved with so a lot of people of the stuff is

simply about ensuring justice and inequality and those of us and try to sort of point out some of the underpinnings of this immediately get boxed into all sorts of ways. there's nothing we can do about it going and thank you for coming back on the show is pleasure to see you. in this country for now. hopefully you don't get too much stress from this. we've got a lot more questions for you when you come back. >> and were not talking about things that we should really should be. i like the u.s. in particular questions. i wasn't so proud of it last year. and not as prepared this time but i just i think maybe we need to be panicking about this erosion and the norm nonviolence in the western liberal democracies like is not by chance that we have come to civilization in a standard in a norm that you don't have

disagreements through violence printed there has been a very quick and systematic erosion about it, the laws have not changed in that regard by the mean when the politics from closing and we are moving into the direction of a culture where more and more people are believing not to respond. to the grievances to the violence and destructiveness. we shouldn't just be talking about that we should be doing something. >> is something that we can all fight for. [laughter] [inaudible]. [laughter] thank you so much for coming back and all the best. he comes out of the second of february. it is called "unmasked" make

sure you get it's a brilliant read and is historical and andy has been on the ground documenting all of the steps to make sure you get in on the second of february we will see very soon with another brilliant book like this one. it this probably going to be our last in person interview for a while. we will see you soon. 7:00 p.m. andy: thank you very much and see you soon. ♪ ♪♪ you are watching book tv on "c-span2". every weekend with the latest nonfiction books and authors pretty tv on "c-span2", created by americans cable television company. today brought to you by the television company to provide book tv viewers as a public service. during a recent virtual program hosted by the commonwealth club of san francisco, with book publishers steve shared his thoughts about the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election

and future direction of the country. here's a portion of the conversation printed. >> i'm still searching for answers i was just thinking about this but i came to this three qualities, may make it complicated, is not. humanity courage and passion. humanity courage and passion if we can have a little bit more of those things in the public discussion and the conversations we have a people, we would be a lot better off in the me give an example of two prince my prayed 100 to be a friend with through this book denver money wrote his essay in the book which i hundred recommended, he was a republican congressman from the state of virginia. distillery with his life in virginia in charlottesville and she performed in gay marriage and for that, basically thrown out the leadership. but everyone became and he then

went on to speak out against another in this man has had his life turned upside down. his own mother has a limit traitor to his country. denver nice big everyday and he's going to out. but he shows humanity courage and passion passion for democracy and we need a reckoning and i believe we need a truth commission but we also needed to focus on personal qualities. my feel like a little bit of a depression but i want to talk about a conversation that i had six days ago. this was with a friend of mine who i wanted to contribute to the book and he had a lot to say and unfortunately, he works for espn read and is not allowed to talk about politics. we were discussing, my friend pedro and i wasn't we were talking about anthony and i will getting you can say which one about anthony, he helped donald

trump. some find that offensive but anthony, he worked very hard for the reelection of donald trump. and people were talking about its predict how did they remember you later printed this the conversation i had with him and rep. what will they remember you for. humanity courage and passion for qualities and anthony has read and i think can all agree and pedro of course shows those qualities, one long but i talked briefly that in 1999 pedro it was conceived in cuba was in his mother and father fleet of when his mother was eight months pregnant. he was in havana for a game and again they arrange the game between the orioles in the cuban national team. big deal printed also in u.s. cuba relations and pedro is there. went through the neighborhood

where his family lived in the recognize him. they left in 1962 and they've had recognize him. among the things that pedro did what he was there was to write an open letter to bill clinton calling for the end of the economic embargo of cuba from ama cuban to do that, is like denver, pedro had a lot loss prince of that but he showed courage. so the baseball world, help pouring of pedro on sunday prayed and wanted to just honor him as well. but it's a hard voice speaking of passion and speaking glad you stand for and knowing what you stand for not being afraid to talk about that even when it's a difficult situation. and anthony and pedro certainly for a lot of years what is on the level of values that i believe this corrections really haim