while protecting free speech. any no talks about his reporting on ntfs and argues the group poses a threat to democracy. georgetown university law professor rosa brooks details her experiences in policing after becoming an armed reserve police officer in washington d.c. robert riley has religious thinking influenced america's founders great investigative journalist jason darren report on drug contamination outbreak that took place in 2012. it all starts tonight at 75 eastern and you can buy more information about tv.org or consult your program guide. thank you for joining for the latest digital talk. special hello to all of her friends to the john marshall house of the john marshall controversial his tricks. weird ledger here and grateful for both off organizations for cosponsoring tonight's event.

i am at the library center for digital history in addition to hosting my hosting this evening, i also have a podcast conversations of the washington library will repeat your interviews about early america, george washington world any practice of history but i encourage you to check out our most recent episode which we publish just today, which explores the long lost journal of a german barber surgeon who participated in the transatlantic slave trade. journal of family two historians are buried in the archives reading by that episode as well as the rest of her episodes by going to our shows website george washington podcast.com. now, we have got a great show plainview this evening could be going to learn a little bit about the marshall house frederick going to learn a little bit about the marshall center. for going to learn a lot about john marshall himself the great chief justice who in many ways made the supreme court what it is today but one of our guest argues, helps keep the american union

together in its early years. and it happens today is march 4, the date of presidential inauguration. on the state in 1801 chief justice john marshall initialed the presidential oath of office to his cousin and his nemesis thomas jefferson. we talked with author robert strauss on his book on marshall in just a moment. first were very lucky to have a couple of special guest for this or this evening to tells more about the importance of preserving the past to help shape our future welcome jennifer the director of the operations and education of the marshall house. and kevin sewall chose the president of the john marshall center for constitutional history and civics. welcome to both, thanks for joining us this evening. >> think for having us perspectives my pleasure bridge endless arcuate stock of the john marshall has what was on there? stomach i am actually thrilled to talk to today about the

john marshall house. but in order to really understand the john marshall house, i'm going to tell you little bit about preservation virginia was the organization that operates the john marshall house. we have been around for one or 32 years with the nation's oldest statewide preservation organization. so we actually own and operate the john marshall house, until i have the opportunity to be the director of museum operations for all these places. but we are also an organization that the statewide preservation there's a lot of places we have worked with john marshall and his family would have interacted with. for example, we have been in coordination with the descendent community we also

worked to preserve enrichment. both of those sites part of her annual advice program. must have a wonderful restoration team and able to restore the childhood home. now gets the john marshall house. [laughter] built in 1790 john marshall and his family. it actually passes the daughter and to his granddaughters. after going to the city. he had this in 1790, it was

already an urban setting. he owned one entire city block you can see the house there on the right hand corner. now he would've only had to block two blocks to go to the virginia capitol or he would've worked and that is calling on a very regular basis. the house was actually built in an area known as court in. his call exhibit other lawyers out there who is very prominent man enrichment. he also would've had a one half story kitchen, one half story lottery in his two-story brick law office on that one city block. so sometimes it's referred to as an urban plantation. i do want to note that it any given time marshall did between eight to 16 people on his property people like robin spurlock who was in enslaved valet.

and so we've only begun to study the history of the blacker presence here on the site. but we are continuing to research and working to build relationships with other people at the site. >> i'm sorry. you go ahead, i've got a question about operations currently but continued >> so, i'll kind of answer that right now. we have covid restrictions in place. and we have been for all of 2020 been offering digital programming. because we really didn't -- were open for a little while we close for the season but the entire time up in offering limiting the size to six people see maintain social distancing. mlb starting again back in april.

since actually, these are some great interior shots of the home. thanks to preservation leadership we ended up acquiring and operate the house and 1909. we were able to have a lot of original furnishings. at this point, we have just under about 50% in the house belonged to john marshall and his family. also in the picture on the left, see the closet of the books in there that's our first edition copy of george washington's biography. [laughter] it's washington had a trump full of washington's papers delivered to his home.

i love correspondence would say can i have this cache of papers and he imagine how wrong that could be how can we find more and learn more about your organization there on the web? it's we also have a very heavy presence on instagram and facebook. you can also check out the facebook page and facebook page. you vilify the john marshall page as well. >> that's a nice segue into talking to kevin. i imagine marshall spent quite a bit of time in the stasis think about constitutional law on the state of the republic

and its early years. could you tells a little bit about >> thanks for hosting this event this evening. looking here about the book, he called at the final founder. we think marshall is really underappreciated we did hold the country together the john marshall center learn the constitution to classrooms continuing legal education to zoom right into classrooms. we are founded i'm guessing in the late '80s to support preservation virginia john marshall house. which is truly a treasure here

in richmond. we've expanded to an outreach education plan civics. there's justice in the classroom program i have good teachers lesson plans they will for example look at the role of the chief justice in impeachment? are today's the 220th anniversary of swearing and thomas jefferson. marshall did the first seven presence personally, what can teachers bring into the classroom about inauguration, peaceful transfer of power? our name says it all the john marshall spencer for constitutional history and civics to really bring the constitution live in classrooms. >> at the moment you alluded to judges zooming into the classic. given the pandemic what is your experience working with

teachers working with experiences through digital means at this. >> we are all muddling through together. when you have online resources that people can use, that is a good thing. every teacher is doing his or her best to provide, some of us to -- i teach a lot the law school. bev quickly learned how to make interesting or uninteresting presentation. the teachers have risen to the challenge we are altering this together right >> working folks reach the marshall center these days? >> lingered to the john marshall center.org as well, this special partnership that we have right now with preservation virginia to save john marshall's robe. i would say save the rope.com.

there you can join us to preserve this is true national treasure. john marshall really led the way in terms of standardizing the black traditional rope if you don't believe me some people think marshall was the first chief justice, john was a verse chorus wikipedia page i guarantees not wearing a black robe. marshall kind of standardized data became the uniform for the traditional branch working with preservation virginia to preserve john marshall's roper tsosie john marshall center.org or save the rope.com respectively for pictures of the robe itself i do believe you can pull this up here for just a second to look at them. as we are thinking about the robe and you're talking about marshall standardizing these things, but citizens of wearing the way you're not wearing a wig on the bench? >> that is the big question. i would like to say pushing

away like once and then he went home and took it off didn't really catch. these things really did make a difference of people were paying attention. really was a gesture toward a kind of republican simplicity and impartiality. some ways wasn't outreach to the jeffersonian. the politics can be bev at the election of 1800 was pretty terrible parts would marshall took the bench in 1801 a black robe i think that meant something breeze bit was this the rope he's wearing when he sworn jefferson? [laughter] >> you know the curator meat was to be really factual about that and say likely. [laughter] this robe is actually been in

our collection for 108 years. when the house first open to the public it was star attraction. and as far as we know, this is the robe. do not know that he had more, he never wrote about it. he did write about having a robe. but he did not write about having more than one. so's far as we know this is the robe. [laughter] >> to build on what jen said, if it was in 1801 maybe as a second jefferson inauguration. or maybe madison wanted to, monroe one or two, john quincy adams, there's a good chance this thing was at an inauguration, marshall did so many of them. back something our conservator noted when he was analyzing the rope is that there is actually hair in quite a lot

of sweat that is actually contributed to some of the deterioration of the robe. he is definitely worn. >> about marshall center and the robe. it's pretty neat i like to see that in person someday. as just announced on april 15 will be having a virtual unveiling. the rope is actually returned to the john marshall house on april 15 will be sending out if you going to follow us on any of our platforms will be sending out announcements and you can see it. >> thanks kevin, jen, thanks so much respect absolutely. all right, that was terrific. now it is my pleasure to welcome to the stage our main

guest this evening robert strauser he's an and journalist who teaches at the university of pennsylvania and previous works including the best i've ever heard, worst president ever. which is a portion of james buchanan and how historians and policies ranked presidents break talked about his new book john marshall the final founder. robert welcome. >> thank you very much. it's a little scary because normally i talk to places or people know anything i'm talking about. so now i'm talking to people, practically everybody out there is going to know more than i knew about john marshall. >> will talk about marshall. >> you know marshall was the answer on final jeopardy last friday. he's a clue in this sense.

this works out nicely. went to remind the audience of an opportunity to ask questions of you in the second half of the final segment of tonight show. folks can do that by typing in comments wherever you are watching on, youtube, or twitter. i colleagues and i will bring those to you, roberts you can have a little face time if you will the audience. >> all right the guess the big question is, you've written about james buchanan. why john marshall? what drew you to him? >> on the go back a little bit about why i'm interested in history the first place. my career was as a journalist pretty much. but when i was young, i grew up outside of philadelphia. as a big history buff and he went into philadelphia, i must've been an independent more than he was.

so i developed the sort of oddball history. the first book that i remember getting facts about the president. and it would tell me whenever james monroe's mother mother died. or what calvin coolidge is favorite. [inaudible] in any case, then it bought me these figurines of presidents. realize marshall's not a president. my point is with little bits of history that accumulated in my brain. and the way i looked at history is a little of vito say. that is what i can bring to the study of john marshall. it's not the facts. because my god, there are plenty of facts already out there.

it is just sort of thinking about different things about american history. that is what i love about it. and why it marshall? after i had done buchanan someone who was important, but alma well known. i work at a tv station that's down the street i'd come out in the street and the lights are sort of dim, and independence hall is in the background. i see an apparition and he

sees a great party last night. so that is how, i want to know about their -- the rest of their time. and marshall, i feel is i tell people, moran had picked up a marshall biography instead of ron -- a hamilton biography the musical would have been marshall with three! he just was not a guy who sat there with a quill pen writing. >> you brought up my favorite which is in madison madison you noted the fact that a lot of people probably know it marshall for that back, right, that great decision about the judiciary but also the fact is chief justice. can you give us a little bit of a sense of marshall's life? what does that look like?

wasn't that it came from error stocker see it all. only established for couple generations people see queen elizabeth because some in the 1h century did it and they just go down the line, they don't know what these people had to do but they did what they did in a certain sense. and a lot of people don't understand everyone still knows one another. 2600 people, everybody knew everybody. in a city that is now a large

city. tilt marshall's father was a friend of george washington's, right? and that means something. maybe it meant something there somebody in the tidewater was friendly with somebody way over in western virginia or what everyone took over they lived these days. so we grew up and what would be steps similar up the corporate or political letter today. except the steps were not as, i don't know, the word concrete. people made their way the way they wanted to. marshall went to virtually no school for virtually no school. we went to a year of boarding school once we administer commitment teach and he went to five seconds of school at

william and mary. and yet he was able to thrive. george washington did not go to college either. it was a different kind of growing up. we sort of want to see the founders to this, founders did that. well founders drank a lot of beer too. are they like to play, one thing marshall was his he was probably for sort of like the gym teacher valley forge. he would make up games. he was the fastest runner. there is a diary entry of somebody that said he could jump over a poll that was suspended onto people's heads. that's pretty good he would've made the olympics if we had the olympics then.

i think that he probably did it to keep up the spirits of the troops. valley forge was sort of a rough time as well know. it was that kind of thing. see progress on from that whether you are marshall or somebody else and you build on being in the military wayfinder start going out with a daughter of a prominent person in town, and then you go to philadelphia and that's another were the great myths. i love knowing about the myths and apparently currently is time marshall wanted to get inoculated from smallpox. so apparently you had to get

just like any thing else is like a voting had to get approval you're going to get inoculated. they didn't want to be around you. the way to get around that for him was to go to philadelphia. the legend is he walked to philadelphia in five or six days does virtually possible today but we had to go through weeds and trees to get there. presuming he did will just say that he did, >> would suck a little bit about his relationship with george washington. you mentioned washington a few seconds ago. she was on the background there of the study but the living room there's a set of washington by john marshall.

what was their relationship like? >> i would say he was washington's cheap acrylate. while presumably they met at valley forge. they could have that before because his father knew him, i cannot say for that. but certainly they met at valley forge but we forget valley forge was not 600,000 soldiers. it is in the low tens of thousands. maybe not even that. if this guy was a junior officer probably made the contact they were not doing anything at valley forge were not actually having them. so they probably impressed him in some way. he followed, he was a soldier through new jersey.

dinner sought to be offered a couple cabinet posts that not have high judicial posts. then there was a time marshall came with washington to mount vernon to see washington who wanted him to run for congress. marshall viewed it as a losing opposition because he was a federalist in a republican area. but still, after being there couple of days he tried to escape in washington knew who's trying to leave in came out and said i am sorry you are doing this you are running.

i'm still it was not that unusual being friends with his nephew. and when washington died, they arrange for marshall's right the first biography of washington. >> will suck a little bit about that biography. ms. got some screenshots from the first volume of that reality the first edition it's in the collection the washington library. a portrait of washington in that first volume. what is marshall's intent there? what does he hope to accomplish by writing this work? >> the thing is marshall gave the eulogy for washington and philadelphia. it is something. it's a space and time in the 18h century we forget we took several days for the news of

washington staff to get to marshall. there was no i95 it did not come up there. so the writer obviously had to which horses, had the gps, i don't bad gps for the horse. [laughter] maybe they did. but anyway, so he said marshall could use some money. so they had arranged to have a subscription service for the biography. it's going to be three volumes i guess. is going to come out in three pieces. i was going to cost a thing $5. but it doesn't really matter. some some of money that would be reasonable.

while marshall is a little slow on this. it does not quite come out on time. and then, people asked for their money back. i hate to bring up this negative thing, and then they find the first volume is not about washington at all. it's about the beginning of the country. they have the washington biography the same way there looking for a steven king novel, they don't get it. and the publisher in philadelphia john adams of course knows washington say it's it's late, it is years late. meanwhile there is this guy who is selling it i was working a salesman for this publisher in philadelphia named reeves.

and he picks up on the idea of well, i can write a better one than this. and he writes the myth of george washington he writes the cherry tree, idle if he had wooden teeth in the story, and then he qualifies it as some sort of euphemism that's not fiction and nonfiction is somewhere in the middle. i am sure marshall is incredibly disappointed. i'm sure he viewed this thing is being up there and everybody with the bible and drawings or whatever else people would have. but it is, lots of famous

people have written biographies of washington. washington irving, prince rupert one, there are other prominent people, not just historians love washington. so i think marshall wanted everything about george washington to be in this book. he viewed him as his wonderful man and he wanted to write a wonderful man's biography. >> as a writer can sometimes find yourself sympathizing with marshall who labored over his work? sometimes it works and sometimes it didn't. >> guest: exactly for that's why in this particular book will essays about american history that marshall inspired me to it write. marshall almost became president and the craziness.

i would say almost became in the craziness of the 1800 election. i have a section of other people henry clay, jefferson davis and so on. so i think that, yes, even though there are more of marshall there fewer biographies of james buchanan. but i knew i wasn't there. and i know that i view things differently from what i call real historian who went to get all the facts out. and can write a big book. i don't want to write a big book we all know valley forge

everybody died that brags for shoes and started up. that's not the real story that's part of the story. if they all started up he would not one the revolution, would we? it was tough, but it was not the death march either bruce bixby give inspiration will be coming up on questions and a few moments breaks want to remind the folks in my fifth question for robert please do type this into the comments. will be correcting those in turns your questions here in about ten or 15 minutes or so. not robert, when the key things you discuss in your book is this idea that marshall is head of the courts in the early 19th century really helps to keep the union together in that. after the constitution is adopted. how did he and the court accomplish this in your view?

it had nothing to do. basically had nothing to do, you could not have had any sub federal problem that because the country has just started. it's one of those things that people would be appalled that to say a peace treaty with england, with england, that marshall became chief justice is the third chief justice went off to negotiate as well as chief justice. he stuck there and they need to move to get that. now of course, go up in europe that's another thing i love is

that people forget the country was so massive in comparison to other places, and tried to be so modern. and how to people in massachusetts know the people in south carolina were thinking. it took weeks to get a letter there. how did madison tell jefferson what was happening in france when it took, if they were lucky, three or four weeks to get their message over there. when marshall was negotiating in the xyz affair, how do they know that the administration wired him to do? so i feel that marshall is sitting there waiting for the right job. he refuses all of these jobs. and chief justice at the same

time, john roberts was secretary of state you had to quit one or the other but who knows. but in any case, finally finds chief justice as a job he wants because he can see where things are going. between the newly found party he can see where splits might happen between legislative and executive things. the bill that these supreme court records in general as arbiters of this. insensitive serving the country at phallic is preserving the country pretty cannot prove the negative. but i don't see anybody else seeing it the way you do.

washington at worst now washington is gone. hamilton can understand, once washington is gone, the great beginner of the country, somebody has to take over. at all these people do want to take over purred there pretty smart people, adams and jefferson and all. they need somebody like marshall. if it was not marshall it would have to be somebody else. >> as you said part of what you're doing in your book is explorations of american history. i did love the opening introduction you talk about your father drag you to all those different places when you were a kid. as a graduate of the university of virginia, i have to ask and have another question about humanities here in a second period would you mind telling the story about the time you're father basically browbeat. [inaudible]

pull out jefferson's will? >> is a friend of mine it knew my father from, i couldn't believe he would do this. he was a man who was a lawyer and a medical judge for some time. but he was a big history buff. so in 1951, there's a civil war centennial, he determined we were going to leave our sacred home in new jersey at christmas time and take a little drive around. we went to the battlefield, frankly more civil wars than this, and we get to the season advocate i don't know what was going on his head. but we go into the library or wherever the archives were. he says to this guy i want to bring out jefferson's will i want to photograph services will judge so-and-so said i could come into it. and the guy must be a little

off though and he says no, sir we can't do that. we can't do that, we cannot bring out that. when he said well so-and-so said it was okay. finally the guy does do this in my father photographed it. and he framed it it is in five pieces and put on his office wall and now have it on my office wall. i am sure any, whatever they do now with jefferson's will it's much better than what i have. what i have is great. >> [inaudible] that's a fun story to speak to the fact already instilled early on in life the love of history and humanities. there's a chapter in your book you kind of talk about that the importance of studying history in general.

and right now are talking a lot about funding and how much we should be putting towards things like science, technology, engineering, and math. that comes to the cost of things like the humanities. what is your sense of why the humanities are important? >> my kids went to davidson small liberal arts school. david mccullough and one of his talks, it's reprinted in the pioneers book talks about how history is no different than any of the other disciplines. it's poetry, it's disrespecting your past if you don't study history little bit. we talked often about the fallacy of the immediacy played what's happening now is the most important thing.

wilts the forest for the trees argument yes, of course it's all around in social media, nearly half of social media all around her it's happening today. somebody disabled that was the greatest world series and it's like yes since last year? great? this is what's happening now. and when i would go out to talk certainly, it was for the canon book it was the time of the 2016 election. he wasn't oh my god this is the worst possible thing. mike 1856, 1800. american history did not go back that far, people should let -- one of the things i believe i put in the book is that one of those great decisions, but when you read almost like you could have a

sitcom. could really be if you learn it right to be too much to go into it. but one of the basic things is marshall is secretary of state got in marbury's commission. he is complicit. who would allow barbary versus madison today? they would be appalled. they say what a conflict of interest. they are looking for the last three supreme court justice hearings and i look at the official corporate the other things about their particular conflicts of interest. that's nothing in comparison to the greatest decision in america. [laughter] 's >> at the end of the day than robert, you culture book john marshall, the final

founder, why is marshall the final founder? >> is the last guy working, he's a last standing he's the nolan ryan of founders who at 43 when he retired. there are two people who were at light the livelong of the him erin burr and james mattis. but they retired. they may not wanted to be retired, but medicine was totally retired. when it comes to i live in philadelphia. i had an operation in the last year the same place that john marshall died the same building the first hospital in the united states. it comes up is got kidney stones. i forget he was in washington or lisbon at the time. he writes all the way up.

kidney stones. now that is a man. that's the guy is living any dies in philadelphia basically on the operating table. but he is working until then. and has a very long career. the 30 some years he was chief justice is only part of it. i hope people get to read my book. as well as his career. while people did his founding fathers it really wasn't that hard. there's only 3 million people in the first census. 3million whites people i'm sorry, people who could then there were women so presumably they're even less than that. it could've been founding fathers. in their way out in western

virginia. so if you really wanted to be a founding father you had a little india, probably would be able to do it. spirit were about to turn to questions but guess i have to ask, not john quincy adams? [laughter] i guess so. he hasn't star. hey did go up with his father but he was a little young when he first started. he was ten or 11 when he was in england with his father. i don't count jimmy's too young. he'll be the roger mirrors with the oestreich. >> that's true, that's true. we could talk all night but let's get to some audience questions. how do you see marshall's personality and it was he a

serious comment was he a heavy guy, humorous, probably easy to look at the sky and think here's a lawyer who's very serious and whatnot. >> he was one of the great partiers of this. if a thing called writing circuit with supreme court justice. that certain states in north carolina. so he was off to raleigh the capitol of north carolina with 700 people. can you imagine the capitol of the state with seven other people? at what he got to a certain number of cases. each 90 go to the same pub and know the same people. it was a big drink of the temperamental think i've ever tasted i don't know what it is. it's a fortified wine.

there is a club in richmond he started this club, i don't know people remember. you're a little kid they had a poll is not a horseshoe but a circular thing with the hole in the middle. that was his big thing. he was also, he recorded his wife she was a young teenager he met her, i know this is appalling, but it's true. he isn't law school with the great george lewis and william mary and his law notes he has little things little inscriptions like kids in our era were doing junior high. he would say polly and john or something like this.

he was a whimsical guy. and i feel he had at top part. but he really wanted to get things done in a sort of, it's another thing we could only drink at the supreme court on rainy days. he would get one of the young justices go out and pull back the curtain and see what it is. i say it's raining somewhere. he's the jimmy buffett of supreme court justice. >> not have the image of marshall and hawaiian shirt. [laughter] 's >> thank you very much for your question. would like to know, we know buchanan started his life as a federalists. we nil in his early career he

crossed paths with her was influenced by john marshall. >> look, they all knew each other. once buchanan comes to washington, he is got to know the supreme court justice. and whether he was influenced by it marshall particularly, i do not know. but just like any place else, and lancaster at the time he started he had to be a federalist. it's just the way it was when he finally converted so to speak. i don't want to get into buchanan too much, he was mostly influenced by henry clay was a federalists. >> very good thank you adam very much for women of coming in from nick.

would it be true to say the true appreciation for the effort to hold the country together after washington? >> is a great friend of john adams. one of the mythical probably conversations was when they had to find a new chief justice i forget who he wanted. sibilant should beat so-and-so and adams says no i think it will be you. he really -- they were all sort of friends. i know more about philadelphia than washington in this regard. one of the things marshall did is in a sense was a supervisor of washington d.c.

whatever he was doing. adam says it's too hot here and going to quincy it's your job. though it is possible that marshall was the first person to sleep in the white house. he did sort of a bunk in their quality of supervising the building. i don't know for sure heat organize the building of the capitol and the white house. but he had to get it done before adams family could move in. >> thank you very much proof got time for two more questions on the one coming in from margo who were some of the founding fathers and important people of that time that marshall was closest soon agreed with most? we talked about a lot of it in that period, who you see the men he was closest with the women he was closer to and who we aligned with ideologically? >> certainly adams. it's more important to note, just like you know your

enemies, there are three ways that jefferson did not like it. maybe you had mentioned this. they were antagonists. they would have been an hour alleged sitcom they would be angry neighbors. they were second cousins related by marriage. and his father-in-law if we can follow this, mary's woman who spurned jefferson said that added it to different parties. he is the last federalists to however you have to remember this, when marshall was appointed and approve the federalists had the congress

and the presidency. but the next day of course 1801 the democrat republicans they had both houses of congress. but every single judge, federal judge in america it was a federalists. so can you imagine people are complaining about the supreme court now, biden is the president to service the supreme court, think about back then to jefferson was was facing. he was a complete avalanche of opposition in the court. >> that's one of the reasons federalism survives along they were able to accomplish that goal. thank you very much margo, great question part of question for this evening goes to lisa. when you are researching marshall was earning one thing that surprised you? or gave you paz or gave you the ability to note chief justice marshall all the

better? >> i do write like i was saying, the other light. would've been in the white house when one of the presidents like bush were the younger barack obama had young daughters, would've loved to been there when they're saying you can't go out with him he's not good enough for you or something like this. something that we already know. or reprimanding them for leaving the butter out or something. similarly i tried to imagine what marshall's daily life was. honey seemed to like it, he seemed to like his life but he loved his wife even though she had two children die childbirth into diet. he always wrote her letters when his off and washington and she was in lisbon and got letters back from her.

he seemed to have this great life at the club. he is a chief justice and yet he wants to find some 23-year-old. [inaudible] so these people have real lives. when you watch john adams that was on tv on sometimes you get the idea that oh my god how is he living? he is certain dower all the time. they have black shades over him. i just think he had this great life. when i read something it's factual i to imagine what he is thinking. that is what history is about. and i encourage to find some little aspect of history.

the students i mentor at carlson and i started a podcast called stand up history. we only have got one so far like a podcast i don't know that many people listen to them except us. we have such fond and we are just trying to find some humorous aspect of history. they don't have to be humorous all the time but american history. when you try to encapsulated the best thing is to find something that you are interested in, in your head is saying but really were they doing? what were they thinking? >> will focus should check your podcast for the one episode in. >> that's right, it's called stand up history. i won't get into it, it's about a guy name daniel sickle

who is a character who everybody knew when he was live in the middle part or that middle to late part of the 19th century and nobody knows who is now. [laughter] >> that is a good teaser, robert thank you very much for spending your time with us this evening, we really appreciate coming in talking with this about marshall. >> thank you i find these opportunities wonderful, thank you very much grace kicked think it's our pleasure thanks again to kevin walsh and to jennifer from the marshall center and the marshall house respectively. before i let you go just went to give you little programming note. on march 10, which is next week i believe our colleague will be talk with a fellow historian of ours that university of central florida. david has written a recent book about the conspiracy of 1783. be sure to check out and sign up for our michelle smith

lecture series which will take place over the course of march, april and may. the series explores the founding moment in considerable detail. you can find more information about michelle smith lecture series, about march 10 and the david had talked to us the replay of this talk or watch the replay our talks by going to ww.mount vernon.org/gw digital talks. thanks again robert. thanks again jennifer and kevin. i just would think jenness patrick and samantha snyder behind the scenes there working to get all the questions. your help is appreciated as usual could not done it without you. good night everybody hope to see becky real soon. : : :