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>> next of us even dan and his politics editor for the washington times. with us this morning to talk about border issues in particular immigration border issues. good morning. >> good morning will start the story we nodes reported last week about the border law. you reported dhs to plug gaps. tell us the biden administration's policy so far when it comes to the border wall with mexico. >> at the end of the trump administration, the trump administration constructed about 460 miles of border wall system over the four years. much of that paid for through defense department money for some emergency orders and other changes siphon from

pentagon accounts he revoked the national emergency declaration and restored, or cut off that siphoning of money from the pentagon to the border wall construction project out a large swath that president trump expected to use head he won a second term with continued to used to build through to more miles in the pipeline in the planningel pipeline. present biden cut off that money pretty positive different set of money that congress had specifically allocated to go to border wall construction. in essence it's an across-the-board halt on construction. there folks there were loud too tight and loose ends and cover up dangerous hull andnd whatnot. and walk away from these sites. a fairly clean break with construction. present biden i believe late

last year probably after he elected after election day but before he took office said he would not build one more foot of border wall on his watch. and now the administration is struggling to figure out whether it can live up to that promise. >> under the adage of shows where you spend your money show us your values are, they were halted e that. the 2022 budget to the planets putting more the wall budget? >> theyin are unlikely to put money into their budget for wall construction are the chief issue 2021 which we are currently in. there is that $1.4 billion put into the appropriations bill that president trump signed late last year. the film wall construction we

are in the current fiscal year. the debate right now is does present biden have to continue to spend that money on the wall? the use it on other things. what homeland security secretary told a group of ice employees during the virtual town hall is there are some gaps that are left in the wall when the stop t work order came through their gaps in the wall they may have to fill for they do not want to leave those gaps. i've done other reporting from southern arizona is about 4 miles of land for they built the high-speed road. the wall is a system. plus there's usually a high-speed road. border control agencies can use and get quickly to them from different points. some border patrol agents think the road is more

important than the wall. then there's technology sensors. that's why heard the trump administration would regularly say were not just talking while were talking wall system. that's what they mean. there's about 4 miles in arizona at least in arizona where they built the road but did not actually finish the wall. the sheriff in southeastern arizona said we just build a highway for the smugglers they can come across to the gap. making it on the r road and suddenly moving faster into the interior of the t u.s. they may have to bill one more foot of wall essentially challengingly presidents promise. >> clearly the trump administration building the wall was a successful political message for the president during the campaign and presidency. how about at the end of his presidency with i a practical deterrentt success.

has the wall proven to be a deterrent? was able to convert other politicians democrats include into his view that yes indeed we need more border walls. specters are two completely different questions they are fascinating. the effectiveness is still eerie heatedly debated. there border patrol agents, every border patrol agent i've talked with the past few years had absolutely walls work. this new construction did work. brook quickly the reason i' say it works it's not to block every single crossing. the point is to impede, to delay crossing where people do cross. that is with the roads come into play when you can shape where people are crossing and how they are crossing. you have the roads you can place agents to get them you can interdict them process with the agency is successful. now the folks on the other side of the debate said you talk about drugs, most drugs

not all but most drugs are coming to the ports of entry. the wall doesn't really change that. i have done reporting sort of a symbol of what the wall does do. drones are now fairly common for flying drugs over the wall. people are flying drugs over ultra light aircraft. putting them on catapults and firing them over the wall. there are ways people are adapting to the wall. the other you ask is really goaded about support for the wall. it's interesting, if you look back before president trump took office, support for the wall across party lines in 2006, 2007. would senator biden and senator clinton in 20 or so other democrats in the senate joining with republicans in voting for 700 miles of border fencing that the obama

administration within vice president biden actually completed that chunk of border fencing in the bush enadministration. president trump tracked the publicpp polling while they were in office dropped to the low majority. vexed reported a new polling in the last month or so that now president trump is out of office support for the wall is back up to a majority position. it's interesting what the effect was on public policy pulling on a number of issues. onpo the wall he actually poisoned it in the public's mind. now without him there is more popular. that could also be becausese of the surge we are seeing now in the folks saying maybe the wall will help. >> let's get to the issues getting the most attention recentlytt regarding the border. your headline peace on friday in the washington times covid

prevalent in shelters holding illegaling immigrants. how many children are currently in shelters along the border elsewhere in the united states the biden president? spector two different types of custody the government has of these children come these unaccompanied minors. when they are apprehended by the border patrol they occasionally comfortable ports of entry to another apprehended by the border patrol. in fact most cases want toto be, because the government actually will help them implead their trip into the u.s. the shop and in some places that will knock on the border patrol vehicle when the say hey i'm 16, 17, 15, i'm whatever. they would go down to the very young ages they want to be caught. as of sunday were slightly more than 3000 of those children still in customs and

border protection custody at the border. they're supposed to be transferred within 72 hours to the health and human2 services apartment, to the shelters there throughout the countries that are heavily concentrated along the border. there are more than 70 of the shelters throughout the country that are to care for these unaccompanied children until a sponsor can be found to take them.f as of sunday within those shelters, nothing massive increase as of late last week was only 16000. they transferred over the less there for days they manage to transfer another 2000 children out of border patrol custody into those shelters. they are basically dormitory styles. some it had to build in a crash course and caught but they are betterte than the

border patrol there holding cells where the children there's no social distancing there really packed in. the goal for the biden administration should try to get the children out of the border patrol custody as fast as possible and into the shelters were they can then try to find sponsors for them. >> what do government officials say is the main reason for thiss large increase in children of the border? >> the increase for children particulars twofold. one applies to broader flow there's pens up demand from the tough trump policies that had squelched the crossing over the last year end half in particular. they say there is pent up demand. for the children was a change of the biden administration made. and has been excelling under

health emergency order. centers for disease control shut down anyone who cross the border could be returned back across the border. medial expelled back to mexico to the hundreds of thousands of people were expelled under that order. the biden administration said we're going to continue to do that for singles adults. were going to try to do do that family sick it's very complicated. but children who came without parents, showed up at the board without parents and presumably have made this really difficultjo journey, that's unfair to expel them back to mexico. so we are not going to do that. that sort of create an incentive structure we saw in march with nearly 19000 unaccompanied children showing up in the month ofrc march alone. by far a record. one thing, this get sort of technical interesting to note the unaccompanied juveniles show up s for mexico and canada

if there were any from contiguous countries differently. if you show up from further than those countries under u.s. policy, you have to be processed and turned over to the healthro department which then tries to find sponsors for you where cases proceed in immigration court. or really talk about us heavily central america guatemala honduras el salvador some ecuadorian. chiefly those three countries over the last several years tens and tens of thousands of children showing up unaccompanied making that journey through mexico to show up in our border unaccompanied. i could probably sell this associated press story reported last night. mexico, honduras, troops to lower migration the biden administration struck an agreement with mexico, honduras and guatemala to temporarily search to their board and urge to refer use

the tide of migration to the border. wasn't this done once before under the trump administration? >> it sure was for the trump administration saw a similar surge semi- of a surge of children but a massive surge of families showing up beginning in 2018 and really peeking in the late spring of 2019. the trump administration, your viewers might remember president trump threatened to slap major tariffs on mexican goods unless mexico did more to stop the flow of people crossing its territory. and within weeks of that threat we will deploy troops and accept the people you're trying to return back across the border. expel back across the border pretty wrote a story the time the president managed to solve that border crisis by outsourcing the job of stopping the flow of people and in some respects that

similar to at the bided mexico is leaving this national guard troops with those who doubt the trump administration and leaving the strips at a southern border to guard down there. in central america bill ford to deploy police to try to hinder the process or the progress of folks as they come up through that trajectory through central america to the u.s. very much so. it sort of been a trend here in u.s. policy. because of the way our laws and policies exist right now we are going to ask other countries to stop them from getting through their territory. timeeven dennis r gasper up bided a ministration policies on biden administration border security. republicans in fiscal (202)748-8000 for independence and all others (202)748-8002.

you can send us a text a and you can also tweet us at @cspanwj question for you from lizzie on twitter on the border while she ask this, since the wall construction was under contract, it was still having to pay for these construction companies even though the building has stopped? >> the answer is we will have to do that according to the neformer acting commissioner of border protection mike morgan pretty estimates the administration will be on the hook for billions of dollars payments basically costs that will not be paid out pretty makes the point there are thousands of tonsds of steel that were procured to build the wall there now sitting around the government is going to have to figure out what to do with that. so there are definitely, that question is astute there are definitely issues this administration is going to have to work through toct cancel

those contracts. here are some of the latest administration is set on the wall briefing from last week with jen psaki. will hear that and hear your thoughts steven. >> secretary reportedly iss looking to finish the gap in the southern border, houses fit with president biden's day one order to stop wall construction? >> wall construction remains a pause to the extent permitted by law. some is been funded through congressional authorization and funding allocation. : : : a plan for the president on the management of the federal fund. when the administration took office, the funds had been diverted from military construction projects and other appropriated purposes towards building the wall. >> purposes towards building the wall. walking sergeant was being challengeded enough lawsuits. for much of the licensing, not all of it. and elect serious environmental

and safety issues and under those circumstances, federal agencies are continuing to review the ball contract to develop a plan to submit to the president soon. there's some construction that is been funded and allocated for but it is otherwise there pretty. >> largely writing a statement there but it does r sound like they are still in the midst of developing a plan whenwh it coms to the wall construction pretty. >> yes it's very complicated answer basically boils down to what i was talking about earlier, the defense department's money that was siphoned away is no longer being siphoned. but if qureshi they would need to figure out what they're going to dohe with that money. secretary has said that customs and border patrol is actually entered next was a bit of the plan for what it should be done without money to him. and also as far as we know, is sitting with him. another interesting aspect to this might resonate with the reviewers, who is positive we are under right now, there are congressional republicans who

have asked the government accountability office for an official legal review of whether that pauses legal. ecbecause congress delegated the money and send this money should be spent or must be spent on border wallpe construction. and the republicans say by pausing that money, the president is violating congress' power. the specific laws of have the control act. this is the same law that was used on president trump in some ways and the government accountability office, said that he broke the law by pausing the security assistance money back in the summer of 2019 and part of what led to the impeachment where the proceedings against president trump and republicans have made that comparison. president trumpmp was being pausing that ukrainian security assistance money after congress said, you needen to spend it. is this the same situation. and of course is no situation that led to drop impeachment of

no, the act of the administration are halting funding the congress and that you must spend, is a very real legal question. in the gao has agreed to investigate and offer an opinion on whether what the president has done his legal rated. >> was here for more callers will go to larry first and maryland. good morning pretty. >> joe biden's planet is a joke, he's a globalist and is the cause of these little children to say come on and in the united states open border. they had 24 years, they found jackets which the iranians speak arabic so there's a terrorist from south america. and they plan to oppose himself as mexicans and they are not. >> how much of that is correct. >> well, there's a lot there but i will probably leave alone with one thing is interesting that he did raise on this good question is whether biden is responsible for the children rated that's a

very real question. they would argue as i said, in human, not too admit the childrn to return them back to mexico. a country they just crossed sometimes a very dangerous journey and there's absolutely something to that and at the same time, for some sense that they have created that incident for more children to make that journey. much smarter people in meath to try to balance out those two factors but there isjo no doubt that that journey is rough. a little bit sensitive but i reported in the past that when teenageen girls in his journey from central america, some begin to take birth control shot work on birth control pills because of the danger and the prevalence of being raped during that journey. those are the conditions there starting that journey knowing they might face in the on the journey anyway which tells you something about the desperation and also something about the conditions they are traveling

through. it's a very complex issue and as i said is for much smarter people than me to figure out where the equities like but they're more people coming under the biden administration and they do have a more lenient policy. that's pretty much how it works out. >> you are writing about the health issues related to the surge and migrants in the la health officials i'll call itt unprecedented freighted and running the office of refugee resettlement, and the health anu human services, he said that the open the shelters the care they've given is a crisis standard of care. to be directed the bided team seriously defining the calls to label the border situation crisis. a number of people have written about this.ch why is this such a big deal and call the situation of crisis. >> it is a good question and i went into this thinking that it was not quite sure why there was so much focus on that and some of the folks who live along the

border share and other law enforcement along the border one sheriff actually made this exact analogy to that if the homeland security secretaryec said that e challenge, not a crisis. as a sheriff said, you are facing a challenge, that means and you're in school you've got a crisis, that means you're feeling the class and you need a major changes. and some his point is that if you're labeling a challenge, you know and understand exactly what you're facing right now. that is one perspective and from the other perspective though, they really are pumping a lot of resources into this party did doesn't really matter what they are calling it if the solutions are the correct ones. and if they manage to change the flow in particular could change the condition that the children are in right now in the border facilities. one thing that is worth mentioning is the children are getting the ending can be children are getting a lot of chilled attention and were

seeing the numbers liking for the arrival of children in the last week or so in a has been up around five 50600 that they're apprehending and now the latest numbers over the last five or six days suggested maybe closer to 400. so there has been little bit of sucking there. but it makes fighting the families of parents who are arriving with the children, in particular the very young children from a bunchrt of reass about the particular situation on the border of right now, those numbers are likely to go up and right now they're not close to what they were during the peak of his 2019 surge under president trump. but the increased dramatically from february to t march. that's where i expected to be the crisis ofcr the challenge to line the coming months and families showing up with the children. >> is a question on twitter, how much of these border children are costing us. stephen: is a very good question, we don't have complete figures but we do know that in

the hhs shelters are pretty expensive, talking hundreds of dollars a day. and i think republican senators who came back from the board reported $800 per bed per day and one of these facilities targeted i reported last week that the health and human services in order tord try to gt these children and the sponsors to come and collected the children faster so they can be gotten out of the government custody so more children can be placed in the shelters. they're paying for the sponsor's planet the children. that is no. we do have a total dollar amount because we don't know how any children we have. but it's a lot of money and was going to be interesting is the biden administration so far has resisted the notion that it will need to come to congress and asked for an emergency fusion of money in order to accommodate the levels we are talking about. the for both parties to say, respect going to have to do that and that is when you do that,

that is when they may have to actually acknowledge on capitol hill that this is a crisis when you're talking about needing more money to a handle somethin. that is when their language might be challenge. >> this is joe calling from alabama. >> your show is not long enough to talk about all of the problems biden has created. we've got this thing radar, is been on for about 80 years, trucks jeeps whatever. drones in light aircraft. now, because of trump salary people in the wall, it's everything but trump did, everybody was against but if biden does it, it is a great thing since sliced bread.

>> let's hear from linda and mississippi. independent mind. >> linda you are on the air. go ahead with the comment. guest: with all of the children crossing the borders, and all of the mental illness has been with the teenagers and the younger people in the united states, how do they plan on dealing with mental illness from the crossings of this long journey. and also do they think that they can just take teenage boys and throw them into fields with lettuce and apples and picking vegetables. his net slave labor. thank you. >> so stephen any thoughts pretty. stephen: interesting things there. so there is very much a realization the children to go on this journey and accompany children go on this journey and

any of them are suffering trauma. the impact of these children after they are released from the hhs facilities, the released to sponsors in most cases, the sponsors our family often parents and sometimes their brothers and sisters and grandparents who are here in the u.s. any times themselves illegally here in the u.s. so there are communities here in the washington area, it's a major destination for children. fairfax and these different counties surrounding this cities in washington are among the top ten destinations for those children end up in place because somebody in that community already here in the children are being placed with them. in school systems are absolutely having to deal with not just the trauma but the new numbers on the talents of english learners and now, they have been dealing with that system at 2014. the first of the surges under the obama administration anniversaries child surges.

it is a very real issue that they are facing. i have reporting coming out this week hopefully on mail older teenage migrants to protect their own problems from one thing that we saw this in the past in 2014 and 2015 and the 2019 search. they turned out to be prime recruiting ground for ms 13. and of the street gangs. actually have a list of cases where children who crossed unaccompanied juveniles across as part of the family unit as teenagers, wereen recruited sometimes they come over already is ms 13 but were quickly recruited by ms 13. and join gangs that are now accused of horrific crimes through his gangs. so is very real danger of fueling ms 13 numbers through this search.

that is a dark part of this. >> from tucson, their headline reports by biden and police chief chris magness' had a border patrol. what we know about chief magnus and wanted the president selective pretty so he has also chief in the city of michigan in the bay area in california. he is known as a progressive law enforcement official. he has been very critical of the border wall for example any the trump policies. he wasol sick because he has tucson maybe 70 or 80 miles north of the border there in arizona. in the proximity, gives them the ability to say, i deal with the flow of this folks coming through my community. but it deal with the flow coming through my community so i've been familiarity and he matches for the presidents progressive approach to immigration in terms

of a posing much of what the trump administration did it. >> this go to ohio with terry an independent line pretty. guest: i was just wondering what is the definition of unaccompanied minor. and how does like a seven or eight -year-old kid from central america all the way up to the border of the united states. do they have an adult bringing them there is dropping them off and then when they get there, and are headed over to the authorities in the united states, do they have parents or illegals the try to get them into the united states. just kind of on that little bit more. he thinks pretty. >> overall really good questions. stephen: in the coming minor is a juvenile, the video shows up with 17 or younger. there are some question as to

how the government is able to probe that to say there is a large number of folks who claim to be 16 and 17. in disproportionate numbers. they would have any of them are actually 18re or older. they're lying about their age. some question about those less they're supposed to be 17se or younger. there's supposed to show up without a parent when they are crossing. in some cases, and the colors regulars a parent to actually we seen cases where a family is showing up in the family is getting returned under the expulsion orders. and the wills actually send the child alone to cross knowing that the crossing ise going to e accepted by the border authorities. in terms of how they come up, is pretty much often is the caller described, the parent will pay for a chain of smugglers to shepherd the child north from the central american countries.

there often times we seen a large number of what they call any caravans, groups of 100 or more, like the rio grand valley action, the departed southern texas, they've already seen 36 of those groups of 100 or more so far this year. no have maybe 50 or 60 of those groups will be families where the parents and children and another 20 or so will be unaccompanied children. so in some ways, holding onto a broader group of people and care betting up. not always, actually seen some really horrible incidents of very young children being cross alone by smugglers in some cases we saw the case last few weeks work they were dropped from the top of the border wall or left stranded on islands in the rio grande. so can be really rough conditions. you can understand for the earlier color some of the trauma that we are talking about. the final part of the mention of what happens to them.

transferred from custom border protection to the health department. of them will be placed with sponsors. usually the sponsors or family members here already and in any cases, they are a here illegally and health and human services that they will not question the legal status of those who come to collect the children in order to have them come and collect them. and they go through their court cases and they have 10 percent that don't end with fosters, they either go through their corporate seedings or sing in the custody per year until their immigration casesod are treatedr the h out. the rep. nicholas x. duranhe in which case they are released into other settings. >> have also heard other reporting the government has asked for volunteers from federal positions to serve time in the border help the crisis down there. how accurate is that pretty how any volunteers delineate. stephen: so that is accurate, there are two different calls

for volunteers. homeland security department issued a call and we seen saying hey your psa or u.s. and in the division, can you come down and help us basic processing and care for the children. there's much broader management putting out a government call for volunteers. that's a checkee from the homeld security alone, thank you so in a had a thousand different people who had offered to go down. i don't know than a verse for the broader government call. this nonocon the trump administration did that is the activated with the called homeland security volunteer force in the activated that themselves during their family search in 2019 as well. two into joining us from new mexico good morning. >> good morning. my question is, and the biden administration brought up on crimes against humanity

concerning the borders. stephen: so there's certainly folks who doing similar things to the trump administration come the raised brought it human rights allegations and whatnot. it actually know this would be part this judgment on that. but certainly folks have leveled with those charges against the past presidents during the source ofsi searches. >> when asked about the resignation reporting here at the washington free beacon, ther borders are to step down at an team made the announcement on friday coming a week after vice president harris took over u.s. diplomatic efforts with mexico honduras guatemala and el salvador. what is a vice president's roll now that she has been charged by the president to oversee the current border issues. to what is interesting. we have this brought impression, we call her the borders but the

white house made very clear, her roll as a diplomatic relations with the central american countries. in sort of the foreign policy acting part of it in the white house that she is not actually the borders were in charge of dealing with the actual crossings in the issue of the children showing up. what particularly as interesting as those euros that we talked about earlierin with mexico and central american countries, to deploy their own law enforcement resources to hinder those folks making this journey in the white house said that those negotiations have been going on in the ambassadors tenure. it was an interesting sort of take on good work ambassador to prepare sleep party to. >> up next the democrats line. guest:. hello. i'm curious, i know people seem to hate be heading north to the united states.

any of these people heading to the south countries and because this is an international problem. are these any of the country taking these people. it will sorry for them and i wish we could take everybody in the world but this could nigeria or uganda or the spring every bit here. but to the extent that we are going to lose our country if we keep bringing in more and more people that we don't even know who they are. sue and that's kind of a related question. prior central american countries like costa rica surprisingly seemingly existing on the conditions and the politics and evolving mass migration to the u.s. stephen: throw really goodqu questions and their really complex. yes, there are some going in to other countries. there are a few here in honduras, a few who have settled say in mexico in particular folks who have feel are being

persecuted and central american countries. they will go seek a safe space for one of the other neighboring countries. myanmar so the central american countries, the key countries that listening to me countries now are coming to the u.s. because first s was actually the difference in income. if you're from guatemala and you land in mexico, you double your income. if you land in the u.s., you increase your income by tenfold. in the second thing is that so any of them as i mentioned this earlier are pretty have relatives living here greatest so any cases this is family unification and they will claim asylum sometimes actually do ernest and have valid cases but in most of these instances, they don't have valid cases and they are actually normal migrants. if they're an asylum foothold to gain a foothold.

so as a family on an economic property but there have been severall different national recent months that some folks blame for the current search. you have some folks say that climate change his response will performing some of the farming community separated and causing flight from those areas as well. so there's a whole bunch of different complex factors. so we called them the push factors that causese them to lee those countries. in the pull factors that cause them to enough for the end up. the pull factors to come to the u.s. in particular, the family and the increase in the economic power are very strong. >> let's hear from shirley in north carolina. a republican collar. >> they do not want to go just take all of the children to the border and put them on the white

house grounds. stephen: >> you've written a number of stories about it over the years. how often do you get down to view the situation yourself printed. stephen: i have not since the pandemic but at least once a year and could go to southern arizona was sort of a favorite of mine because that's where i started to go 20 years ago when that was where ground zero was back in the early bush years. for this flow of people. that is part of the reason why so much of the early push wall and vehicle barriers were builtt in those areas. sort of an, there's a national organ pipe national monument on their beautiful place. a southern arizona that had a chance please go. it is spectacular but for much of these they push in early obama administration, most of the park was close to the public

because there's so much illegal crossings and unauthorized traffic there. it's dangerous of those encounters and then things calm down during the middle part of the obama administration, they were able to openre the park backup. it is now still open, the folks in that area are beginning to worry about the increase in the presence yet again. they really deal feel this when i made myip first trip to the border, sort of a weird story. he came back and it was not able to write a story about a because i just can figure out how to communicate to folks, and a broader audience what i had seen because it was just so different. we sat in the ranch house and we watch massive groups of hundreds of people streaming across the property. i was a completely different issue than what youen are sing n and with families and whatnot. that was mostly single adult, mexicans coming across.g now that you standings are the central american countries. a lot has changed put the impact

on those communities there, that is something we here in washington don't talk about as much as we probably should. >> editor with the washington times, reduce reporting at washington times .com. this is stephen dinan thank you is always joining us. stephen: as always thank you. >> washington journal, every day we take your calls live in the air, use of the day and policy issues that impact you. coming up thursday morning, we'll talk about the biden administration's energy climate infrastructure policies louisiana for republican wrecking member of select committee on the climate crisis and then a look at a new reported domestic terrorism activity in the u.s. the center for strategic and international studies. plus dc delegate elinor martin will talk about infrastructure in the american jobs act pretty and dc statehood efforts marcy spent washington journal by the seven eastern on thursday morning. i'm sure to watch washington

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