for the people of afghanistan or somalia or elsewhere. they want to welcome them. there are so many evil those who want to do good things for people in difficult places. but they also describe how the streets have changed in the schools have changed. with the continual on - - continued assault on their bodies. and on a daily basis and the authorities lead them leave them to themselves. look what's happening in my neighborhood it is dismissed as racist. that is where radical islam is

coming. and all other fringe groups and extremist with the agenda. because they don't want to deal with these issues. . . . .

some not so pleasant memories. what have we learned from that experience? and how will that help us in the future? we will find out tonight is rejoined by energy expert. jay is the author of the books, declaration of energy independence and his new book energy crises, nixon, ford, carter, hard choices of the 1970s. jay has a long history of working on energy issues including being administrator of the u.s. energy and information during the clinton administration and director of research and policy for president obama horizon oil spill commission. he also served for 13

wonderful years as our director at the jimmy carter presidential library. he's joined tonight by steve hochman assistant to president carter for the past 40 years. steve began working with president carter in july 1981 helping him with the research and editing of his book, keeping faith and memoirs of a president. he has continued to work with president carter on subsequent books, articles and other scholarly activities as well as projects he is currently the director of research at the carter center and president carter's faculty assistant. gentlemen, it is a pleasure to have you both here again tonight, steve. >> thank you tony. it is a pleasure to be with you and with jay as well. we have many years together here in atlanta but now he is

in new orleans. and i don't see them very often. so i am really pleased that he is here and that i can talk to him in person. over resume that is. [laughter] well, energy policy is a complicated >>. this is an opinion held by many of the people in your book, jay, who are determined energy policy. and therefore i congratulate you on how you tell the story of energy. in my opinion the book is fascinating with intense human drama you make the >> understandable as well as stimulating. and tonight's, i ask you to start by describing the access to americans energy before the 1970s while the post-world war ii years were not

completely free of energy problems, this did not seem to affect the deer daily lives of most americans. must >> steve great to see you. let me begin if i may just by saying how amazing it is how atlanta has continued to prosper as a center for authors and books i think a cappella books deserves a lot of credit. tony clarke at the carter library has done a wonderful work you at the carter center was made the space there available when we don't have covid. in that general constitution does a good job of covering books is so wonderful to see what's happening with books in general. so it is a pleasure to be here. no big question you ask although i talk about the 1970s in the book, it is important as you suggest to

look backwards. in the 50s and 60s the united states was the major producer of oil. we did not have to import very much of it. in fact, we had the capacity to produce more than we did so that when you had an emergency in the middle east like 1967, seven day war you could just jack up american production and make up a lot of the difference. besides that the americans owned a lot of the international oil companies when britain, italy, france and other countries also own these companies. and so you did not have a powerful opec out there. we sort of took energy for granted at that time. on one additional thing i would mention is we put in

the barrier to imports it was called the import quotas program. so we intentionally did not import much oil from the middle east because of the security concerns. so most americans prices were low. we did not have gasoline lines and people did not think very much about energy. it's reckless it's a nice for if you are old enough to remember, no one worried about energy. in fact we looked forward to gas wars were the price of gas would go down into the teens 15 cents, 14 cents, you remember that. >> rights. in addition to that somewhat would pop out to your car, they would check your oil and they would clean your windshield. and you've got green stamps for your purchase that you could get different prices

with. that was a different era. we all kind of miss that to some extent. >> well what happened to cause the dramatic change of the 1970s? >> a couple of things. i guess the main thing that would stick out is a 1970 u.s. oil production peaked and started to go down. and meanwhile the interstate started highway system was being completed and americans were driving more and more. we had a tension between the effective had lower production, we had more usage and we were not allowing all that much imported oil to come in. and then another thing that started to happen and americans were not really paying attention to it, some of the middle eastern country started to say what we want to have more influence on prices or we would like to own part of these companies. that was led by adelphi the

head of libya he was very militant about it. and pretty much the western countries back down every time he threatened to shut down production was something that we were not willing to do. mainly to protect europe. europe would've been hurt by that. all these things started to build up and people were coming to nixon was present at the time and say sir there is a problem that has arisen here we need to deal with it. and he kind of shuffling it aside. when you look back at hindsight at least you'll see there's kind of a tectonic change taking place it took place at a time we were sort of getting out of the quagmire in vietnam. it was a feeling we're starting to lose power in the world. we could not win the vietnam

war we did not have control of these oil companies anymore. one thing that seemed very different as we look back and i look back in your book on the 1970s, was that in regard to energy at least the divisions in the united states did not tend to follow party lines. what were the different interests and principles at play at this time? >> right. rather than congress being split for instance between republicans and democrats, it was split more between the producing states and the consuming states. so at that time -- lloyd benton.

[inaudible] said the democrats would be split and the republicans are be split. the republicans had people like chuck percy and illinois and, mark hatfield and oregon clinton decide more with the democrats on a lot of issues with carter fully had a democratic president. if you are used to politics today it was different back then. and of course the producing states were well represented. because russell long was chairman of the finance committee and back in the 50s texas had both the speaker of the house and the majority leader in the senate. that a lot of influence on the legislation not covered energy.

outside the scope of my book even something like the panama canal treaty which is very controversial, one of the person to help point of the votes for that is howard baker who was the republican leader. at the little bit hard to imagine it happening like that today. >> that is right. another division that also influence the energy policy was over the environment. that also did not follow party lines strictly. would you talk about that? >> it is interesting because a few years ago somebody did a ranking of american presidents on the environment. richard nixon and gerald ford and jimmy carter were on the top five. i think nixon was number two because the clean air act was passed under nixon. carter got very high remarks

partly because it was the protection of alaska. and for did as well. the environmental effort. if you look at congress probably the strongest person in congress for the environment who end up being secretary of state and the carter administration. when he was in the senate he was going back to the early 60s he was the campaigner for the clean air act. a lot of the environmental legislation like the clean air act, as with the bipartisan, the environment back then was treated differently. i thinking you can argue in retrospect that the 1870s was the golden age with environmental legislation. i've often said we had to pass the clean air act today could be doing? and yet that is the act under which the supreme court has

ruled you could adopt federal rules on climate change it was so broad in scope. it was a monumental arrow for that part of think all three presidents nixon, ford, carter tried to bounce the need for more energy with the need to protect the environment. that was not always easy, but they all tried. >> well, from your book i get the impression the nixon administration actually understood what needed to be done to address the energy problems. but president nixon prevented action that might hurt his chances for reelection in 1972. and then forward when he came and also prevented action that might hurt his chances for reelection in 1976. president carter however pushed ahead with the policies

needed for the long term, despite being warned it would hurt his reelection chances in 1980. how did this workout for the three presidents? >> if that was the only issue in the book i think that would be worth everybody's study because it applies to fundamental aspects of the political process. you know, nixon you have to remember had a very bitter loss for president in 1960. it was a close election. he felt in his mind he was the more qualified candidate. he was kind of bitter about that. he felt that one of the reasons he lost was the economy had not been robust at the time of the election. and so, he was trying to build a solid republican geordie.

to appeal to some the states like texas and louisiana where the democrats were competitive at that time. so he did not want to anything in energy that upset anybody. he did not want to upset these are mental's or the oil producers. we know this because it got the tapes, we got documents that is staff kept pushing. john whitaker kept pushing, we need to address these energy issues. they are welling up. you'd say no that's for the second term. we are going to deal with these issues with got to win the election first. oh but forward in a middle doctor. ford at times it did things i thought were not necessarily helpful to him. his advisor said don't promise that were going to cut oil imports by a billion barrels by the election don't make that the global competitive bite you if you don't do it.

and then, what happened is of course he didn't cut it by a million. he ignored that but he said no is the goal we need. now as it got closer to the election it was bigger in his eyes and the eyes of his staff. now if carter was almost a direct opposite. there are some wonderful memos from hamilton and others about this. he only dies people if you come to present card and say this is going to help you and your reelection he's going to tune you out. find some other reason to state your case. and carter did some things like deregulate oil prices federal reserve board, that he had to know, he didn't know this was not going to be helpful election. but he felt like those were the things he needed to do to

get us out of the quagmire we were in economically. he also admits and invested on long-term technologies including several that were not going to pay off in the next five or ten years but would pay off down the road. so how did it work out for them? nixon got reelection, ford and carter lost. so what is the morality lesson? what's the next lesson for the next politician, if you want to get reelected maybe there's some utility and not dealing with tough issues. so that's why think it's important for his history to go backward some historians take the presidents they take what was the view of them when they left office and that gets frozen into the public psyche. what i am saying, let's go back and look at how some of the things they did worked out over the long run.

not to be dead judgmental. it's easier in hindsight to say this is what we should have done. but to kind of gives some recognition to people who were looking ahead even at some political cost. >> while the title of the book, energy crises. let's talk about the crises of this. to periods of oil shortages, the gas shortage, 3-mile island, i leave it to you. say energy crisis in the 1970s, people will think of the arab oil embargo that basically ran 1973 to march of 1974. the wake-up call to the

general public were living in a different world right now. i was used to after the shaw of iran was overthrown by the end of 78 and he fled the country and gender of 1979. we eventually had another bout of gasoline mindset is a whole interesting story and of itself. in a couple months before the election war breaks out between iraq and iran. fourthly by that time europe and japan have cut back so it did not hit as hard or starting to occur from being evident to the public. i was filled with all these

crises. i told publishers you know, done exactly when it's going to come out i don't know what the issue will be but there will be some big issue in energy that will be a crisis. as it turns out that we have the big texas electricity outage recently. learning how we deal don't deal crises the cost of kicking up down that road versus addressing it on the front and i think people will learn a lot in this book. >> >> to be in gasoline lines during the nixon and carter administration but a shock to americans the higher prices as well.

>> one of the problems with nixon is price control the person at the pump did not see the price increase quite so much. but the market for the retail service station owner was so small they were closing on weekends there closing early at night carter decided we need the controlled crude oil prices but he did not decontrol gasoline prices. and so the motorists started seeing it more the pump. carter had that misfortune he was the president when gasoline first went over a dollar per gallon. it's a real price money was different back then.

could remember it may be gasoline even in the teens this passage to a dollar was a big deal. and beyond that, because so much of the oil was imported it was a huge outflow of money out of the u.s. economy into the middle eastern economy. it was a big deal. people argue about how much oil was the cause of the inflation in the 1970s. my conclusion is was a very large part of that inflation. and so in some ways it made life very complicated. >> you describe numerous policymakers and people and which of them impressed you the most in a positive and a negative way? >> and nixon thereto very

flawed characters. there's henry kissinger who at times when nixon was struggling with the watergate and also having health problems that kissinger actually function as president. we went to defense condition number three which should not happen since the kennedy assassination and never happened again until 911. with kissinger chairing the meeting and nixon not participating not in the condition to participate they interpret he's drinking too much. he is a character, john conley who is from texas but convinces carter to control is a colorful character. in the carter era i focused a

lot on someone who even follow carter would not recognize. that is john west. he is the ambassador for saudi arabia. it is very important. it's kind of a mysterious relationship that is not well understood by think i was able to dig in and get minutes of lots of the meeting and discussion that occurred. very youthful ted that was the record kept by john west. john west was the governor of south carolina during the first oil embargo. as was jimmy carter in georgia. hey new how about the gasoline lines where he ends up in saudi arabia during the carter administration. because he's an old friend of carter's he's able to communicate directly without

going to the state department. he kept very good diaries as did president carter of course. i was able to find these dyers over at the university of south carolina gave us a real insight into west and his operation over there. i think the people who surround the president sometimes get lost in the shuffle of history. but they are important. they play a role. presidents get options and these options are presented by their staff people. sometimes even the decisions are made at a lower level. you know, i think that is one of the rewards of the book is seeing not just the president but the people around them. >> this book covers the middle east considerably. and you bring up the saudis. they were the major producer

and supplier of oil. in all of the presidents, and not notice as much about ford. nixon and certainly carter were disappointed again and again by the saudis. they would sound like they're going to keep prices low. and they didn't. and at the time of the camp david and the peace accords under president carter the saudis seem to have promised to support saddam and the peace process. but then it backed away. i tried to cool them off. but you tell a little bit different story about the saudis. when you talk about that? >> yes.

let me start with nixon. the oil embargo against the united states announced on october 2017th covid 1973. and that morning nixon and kissinger had a meeting with the foreign ministers egypt and saudi arabia. they came away convinced -- nixon and kissinger did, there'd be no embargo. nixon was just joyous he said the press was expecting everything to blow up. and we had a wonderful conversation the same day the embargo is announced. to officer there is a communication problem here. yet the negotiation of camp david agreement at camp david

there's a lot of turmoil in the middle east after that. and then march of 1979 that creates another thing. there's a reason i might think you're sympathetic saudis site as well. with saddam and carter felt iran or saudis and i've looked at dozens and dozens of articles. i think every message they sent to the united states. we always said were going to support the u.s. position. that is of course two thirds of.

but then from saudi arabia and every one had the emphasis we have to deal with the house problem because if we can't the arab world is going to not accept this. and we also have to be in the arab world. i don't think you can find a single document with that caveat was not put in, not prominently in the message. the other thing is there's this big meeting in baghdad where this sort of betrayal occur. that's redacted about what the position was.

what his explanation was of why he condemned egypt's and in fact the united states in baghdad. i've never used my access to private information to even see documents that relate to my book let alone use them. based on classified sources i was able to find what he said. he said his under threat of being assassinated if he was in baghdad. one of the receipt changes position at that time it was sort of kept classified. this kidnapping of a loyal alexandria ocasio-cortez oil ministers when ford was president.

made an impression in the middle east. the clear intent was to assassinate the old ministers of iran and saudi arabia. ransom was paid, money exchanged hands and their people killed but none of the oil ministers got out. the idea he might in baghdad was trying to kill was not a wild fantasy. that is why i kept digging for years to try to see how does this look from the saudi arabia standpoint? i got stymied in a lot of places. but was eventually able to confirm that. they point out the number of times there caught they have this reliance with the united states that's very important to them. they wanted to part of the arab world. they viewed themselves as part of the arab world.

they viewed stronger than them militarily. they could not ignore that. eventually in later years iraq got pretty close to saudi arabia. that's kind of a dramatic story in a way. also the carter administration there is a delegation over there and they thought they had heard said there be no price increase. we got -- the ground the plane and got the message the production is quick down in saudi arabia and that's going to raise prices. >> the other middle eastern leader that is controversial for the united states is the shaw of iran. one thing i found interesting and somewhat surprising from your book, is that nixon administration and maybe even in the ford they seem to note

things are not so good. some people within the administration. but then when he gets the carter administration the cia has nothing to say. what about that? >> there a lot of tax on american facilities and companies in iran throughout the 70s. i cannot make a final judgment but the head of the cia under president carter says in his book and is told me personally i gave him a tour of the library that the cia was asleep at the wheel. he's very candid about them. he said we went over there gave great parties and receptions.

in the shot was very articulate. his multi lingual, very witty, could converse on economics, you name it. we lost track of that it wasn't known because we have a lot of personnel and iran. the defense department have a lot of people there treating pilots and whatever. we just did not want to acknowledge the dangerous overgrown. carter never had the real pals the relationship that nixon and kissinger had. nixon and kissinger really had tremendous support for the shop. he was the only company -- country that could adopt -- order weapons it would automatically approve them.

this sort of exempted them from the process. they had a real sweetheart deal nixon and ford almost gave them advanced nuclear capabilities that could have led to weapons. carter came out against that in the presidential election in 1976. ford then switched his position and adopted lease during those days they did not get that technology. iran has been written about a lot. i think i added some new context to it. with saudi arabia, is a lot of books about saudi arabia two. i think the relationship has been too much of a mystery. that is a relationship that's very important to us today. flicking go back in history and see what really happens

and there's a lot to be gained from that. >> you do have a lot of new things in the book. which brings me to the question, how did you do your research? how did you find these? >> the foundation of any research is got to be the presidential library that has millions of pieces of paper. and so you are very reliant on the archivist. in my book i was going to name all the archivists that help lay. when i got past 25 i realize i could not name all of them so i did not name any of them. but, you know, on that point there is a serious issue. one of the beloved archivists at the carter library, she let mei out we just found out passed away over the weekend. she was one of the main people who help me in the presidential libraries. but i went beyond that. both the cia and the state

department that a good job in putting information up on the web in recent years of used to be classified protects a while to go through them historians have not use them as much as i think they should. then i made three other visits that were important to me into the book. william simon who is the energies are under nixon kept everything. newspaper clippings, documents , all sorts of things. some of those are the ford ford library or copies of them are. he was a graduate latvian college in pennsylvania. i spent time up there going to those documents. i wanted to know but the gasoline shortage wernick week by week basis what they were the worst in. the american automobile association had that

information. they surveyed every week thousands of dealers to find out what the status was. i don't down to their headquarters in orlando and spent some time going through all of those reports so i could have a pretty exact handle on where the shortages were. both under nixon and under carter. and then the third one i previously briefly mention was university of south carolina has the papers of ambassador west. i learned of this archives because of there was a biography written and that book was presented in a book event at the carter library which i attended. seeing that book and making me aware of this archives may be want to go over there and see you then. now, part of the nixon library are the nixon tapes. i don't think anyone is listen to all the tapes nixon talks about energy before. there are a lot of them.

these kind of conversations are important. sometimes it tells you how people really think even more than the public statement. student what about interviews? did you have any breakthroughs on interviews? or do people remember correctly what actually happened? >> think i've met over 50% or over 50 people mentioned in the book. when you're at a presidential library you not only meet nature figures in your president but others as well many occasions on the times you were present to talk with president carter about energy. and to give additional perspective and particularly we were redesigning the museum. i used a lot of interviews that were done at the time. when you leave the white house to do an exit interview with the national archives.

when you are at a fairly senior rank you do a long interview and the university of virginia which is a very fine school. what you find as you go 40 years out of 30 years out people don't remember. i started out locating people who have had key positions. i found that their memories were pretty foggy. so although i did do interviews i am much more dependent on the written record. or the tape record. because i know that is reliable. i've even had some cases where people were telling me things that they really believed. but they don't counter to what the written record said. that is why i urge people, i have seen some work done on

that. i think some of the world interviews from the burj arrow for instance tried to make the board if you're more like a rag and then he was. it is really a counterpoint to regular pay and more similar to sue carter. a lot of the people when you get later that memory of ford does not always jive with what ford actually did or said. that value particularly when their conduct close to the event. they had retreated with a little bit of caution. >> thank you and i agree with you. >> okay, let's suck out the impact of the 1970s on today. for instance are two things i will break up and you can talk about anything. one is fracking. you seem to give president

carter a good deal of credit for encouraging fracking which has made a tremendous difference. but also, what might have prevented global warming if action had been taken? those are two subjects to discuss you can expand as you will. >> if you look at a line graph in real dollars inflation control of u.s. investments of energy technology that line is the highest in the last two years of the carter administration. never been before will see with the infrastructure maybe that will change. my investment fracking technology. hope wouldn't frak incentives to develop natural gas. i don't think a lot of people thought it was going to work but it did.

were not sold pound on roof of the white house which were the old-fashioned technology this was the modern technology. that's one of things that helping us with climate exchange today. that's one area which is with us today. climate change is being discussed at the time. quite a bit actually look into this and that later book. i'm working on a similar book of climate change from eisenhower to clinton. but at the time and did not seem anywhere as important as ending our dependence on southern oil. it was the dependence of foreign oil that drove the project independent. carter's comparison as it moral equivalent of war.

that was driving it. the other thing i would say some the good things that were done during the 70s stopped in the 80s like improving the efficiency of automobiles. we did not improve automobile efficiency from 195 to 2007 to have those lost opportunities every stuck with them at a steady basis we would be so much better off today and reducing carbon emissions in dealing with climate change. that is a short answer. they are just right turn on red. all of us right turn on registry that came from the energy crises of the 1970s because we could save a little bit of oil if we do not have to sit idling at the intersection. >> tony gibson question joint to bring up? >> infected been fascinated. one question from the audience in fact i was reading about this the other day 13-mile

island occurred. president carter is out giving a speech and stu eisenstadt's domestic advisor sends a message hey, we think it will be important for you to actually go to 3-mile island to reassure people that everything is going to be okay. how did 3-mile island impact carter and energy? his views on energy? >> the complete story is nuclear power was in trouble before 3-mile island. it had been zooming through late 60s an early 70s. colt was proving to be cheaper they are having trouble making the nuclear plant work fully and efficiently.

it was in trouble before. i don't think it hurt carter this was in his wheelhouse so to speak. he not only helped develop the nuclear submarines but the first nuclear accident in north america was in canada. and who is sent to clean the mess from the navy? jimmy carter one of the top experts on nuclear power. the radiation stands in those days were much more lax and they are today. he absorbed more radiation than almost anybody in america. when he got the job done. when 3-mile island he knew what was going on. finally stop talking people of regulatory conceited not think they understood what was going on.

they talked every day for a couple of weeks. carter went there to visit went to the containment area which a lot of people might not of felt safe doing is a real boost to the people in that area. he also pointed to the commission typical carter gave them six months to write the report, which i found that have become the standard everybody agreed to the great job solves a lot of problems in the nuclear industry. so 3-mile island the performance of the nuclear plant we had left, was much better. before carter they were operating at about a 55% capacity. these there operating over 90% capacity. nuclear may have lived to fight another day.

we will have to see. my own personal view news nuclear resurrected was going to the smaller plan that can be produced module he. there's an interesting work going on with that today. carter was actually able to protect the nuclear industry to get some of the people who want to shut it down at 3-mile island. think was one of the areas where it would be hard to argue you could not of had a better president until they nuclear accident that someone who developed nuclear reactors. >> another question from the audience, based on your research tribute to gas lines it occurred during the late spring early summer of 1979 tomorrow the iranian revolution or the decision to decontrol oil and opec's pricing decisions? >> some of the reasons i wrote the book.

i was always kind of mystified by this. oil source of both of the floor november and december of 78. and late may and june of 79. that is a pretty long leg to argue. almost without telling the united states are trying to keep a secret from the world violating the saudis stepped in immediately increase production by 2 million barrels a day to replace the iranian blog. we didn't really feel it is much at the pump as we could've. then as steve's question got us into the terminal in the middle east the saudi oil production went up, and then

it came down and then it came down some more. eventually carter talked them into moving it back up again. so i don't think anyone has written the story before of the saudi rule that was in the background. they read the books with video or whatever. we have the iranian revolution than this led to the gas line. that in a general sense is kind of true. but then you're missing the real drama going on and how saudi arabia has the capacity to offset a big chunk of that loss. i'm why the various times cited not to do that. it's make you look close at the, carter administration. i'm curious if you found administrations learn from problems and solutions of the previous administration. i consider that even to today

whether administration since the 70s have learned or what their predecessors faced. smith i have a lot of experience in government. i will play that in government a lot of information that is available to government officials was what they read in the newspaper. most people in senior positions in government the first image do as they get the news clips which in the old days stapled together. we assume it gets passed down to each proceeding president. my observation at the time as deputy crown prince who is really wasn't the deputy.

gave the nixon administration the most optimistic readings about what saudi arabia was going to do. and then it was also found in the carter administration that gave the most optimistic predictions. and there were other people that were probably better to listen to, he became corn minister for carter. and. [inaudible] was harvard educated a princeton grand he knew very candid with the americans. there is a tendency to listen to him. you know, i think there's a lot of room to improve their. i don't think it's anything particular to the 1970s. i think there is a lot to be learned from the previous

administration and particularly when it changes party hands member there's not as much of that transfer as there should occur. it could save us a lot of problems because the middle east is complicated enough anyway. we certainly need to learn from what went right and wrong in the past. >> what about in terms of the public? one of the things i think about having gone through the 70s and cars became small and there is all of this interest in small fuel-efficient cars and doing alternatives energy and things like that. i now you look out in a parking lot and its suvs and big cars, whether the public once to go back to at the public once rather than learn from what they've gone through.

>> i don't think i got in the book so originally the book was going be twice as long i'm publishers were only going to give 40 pages. keep the best stuff. i have a theory about this. in the 1970s, twice would greatly increase the size of trailer trucks a kabila out of the road. the reason was warmaking in part trucking charges were controlled by the government at the time. we fell at the trucking industry needed a break. people on the interstate eventually decided they wanted almost tank like cars because they were afraid of these trucks.

and originally was kids went off to college to go back to the smaller car we found to our surprise that they kept the larger car. we kept a serious problem for the solution of course these days is probably going to be solar energy is powering your electricity and the electricity through a battery can run that suv that we solve the environmental side of that equation. but if we had less loopholes in the mileage efficiency standards i think we could have controlled the suv thing a little more. >> i was looking this last

week and anniversaries of things that happened during the carter administration. it was at least 41 years ago this last week that he impose the windfall profits tax on the oil industry. and looking back on it, was that a good idea? >> well, you are in texas and oklahoma. [laughter] the answers is a terrible idea. but his argument was -- nixon and ford both agreed with it. the argument was if we are going to deregulate oil prices, all the sudden the oil they have storage they developed under the lower prices is going to be worth the higher price. they ought to pay a tax and what they call the windfall

profit. like any tax except you need money. one of the characteristics as he did not like. he'd been under a situation we want to spend more on terms of energy we still have it today was some assistance of people that have is not willing the profit tax is responsible really are today and also research the fracking. it depends which side of the fence you are on, whether it's a good idea or not.

certainly makes people in texas and oklahoma man. >> a personal question, you have known president carter for years. you have worked closely with president carter. how difficult is it or easy to sit down and interview him back about things that happened during his administration. and then judge whether they were correct, whether they were the right answer, wrong answer, somewhere in between. >> one thing i would say is at no point would i ever gotten any indication that he did not want to be open. steve is very hopeful to historians on this. if something is not open because it needs some work and it's it rough transcript or

something like that they would praise carter for his openness. i think that carter is quite willing to have good conversations. redesign the museum had to discuss a few things. that is a good question. originally was not going to include carter in the book for that reason. and publishers of course are sitting how can you talk about energy in the 1970s will talk about president carter. i talked with him about it and he had no problem with it. i talked with the lawyers at the national archives to save us is a conflict of interest for they said no had a relationship with president carter before you came to the library. you are at the energy department. think most people need to be

fair-minded. so be a lot more appreciation of not been appreciated in the past. i had to pick out one thing it would be the investment in the photo pick solve the climate change problem with that one technology will be looked at as the most important contribution. jay hakes, steve hoffman think is so much the discussion the book energy crises, you can get it a cappella books and jay has signed bookplates to put in them part i would encourage you to do that. it may say that it's talking

about the 70s, it is information we could really use today. gentlemen thank you all very much. thank you for joining us tonight. i look forward to other prrams like this as well, jay, steve, thank you. thank you so much. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ vet kim todd account the efforts of women in the 19th century who assume false identities for impropriety and

report workplace conditions. here's a portion of that discussion. victor really got its start with nelly bly people have heard about any reporter of this era is probably nelly. sheet as a young woman in western pennsylvania for naegele to her way into a job with dispatch without a lot of experience. but that did not hold her back. she was very ambitious. sutley more than a year sharda said new york is the place to be. i'm going to go to new york and work for the best papers in the country. she spent long months they're trying to find a job. it was very competitive everyone wanted to work for the same paper she wanted to work for. and women were not in high demand because it was very utility as a reporter being very limited. but she got her first assignment and hurt in by

volunteering to get herself committed to black rolls in a sane asylum for women. she spent ten days there she came out this really explosive exposé about the horrible way that women were being treated in the fact that many of them were not even mentally ill they were just poor or immigrants with poor english. or women their families wanted to get rid of. on the one hand is a really valuable peace of journalism and on the other hand he told it in a way that gave really irresistible reading. very personable first-person narrator she used a lot of dialogue, and the characters she created her voice was very funny she is a lot of simple sentences in detail that sold a lot of papers.

so right after that like within a year all of these newspapers all of a sudden wants to hire young women and it was just like a casting of open opportunity that a lot of women were able to walk there. >> to watch the rest of this program visit booktv.org search for kim todd the title of her book sensational using the box to the top of the page. >> book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on "after words" into in her latest book persists, nasa chooses democratic senator elizabeth warren talks about persistence in her life as a professor, a u.s. senator and as a democratic presidential candidate. she's interviewed by "washington post" white house reporter annie linsky. tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern

the development of precision bombing during world war ii is the >> of best-selling author malcolm gladwell's new book the bomber mafia a dream, a temptation, and the longest night of the second world war. watch book tv tonight on cspan2. tech policy reporter and author of technology 202 newsletter paid my guest today senator josh hawley, a republican from missouri. senator, welcome to the "washington post". >> thank you. senator i am looking forward to talking to you a bit about your proposal to break up big teches companies in your new book. butar we wanted to start today of the events of january 6. senator, you are the first senator to object to the certificatio o