court justice john marshall. spinning well good evening everyone thanks much for joining us this evening for our latest washington elaborate taco. a special hello to all of our friends affiliate with the john marshall house and the center for constitutional history and civics. we are delighted to hear gray for to both organizations were cosponsoring tonight's events. i am at the library center for digital history in addition to

hosting -- in my hosting duties this evening i also hold podcast conversation at block washington library we feature interviews about early america comic george washington's world and the practice of history. i would encourage you to check on her most recent episode was republished just today which explores the long lost journal of the barber surgeon who participate in the trans-atlantic slave trade for journal that was found by two historians. in the berlin archives you can find that episode as well as the rest of our episodes by going to the show's website george washington's podcast.com. now we have got a great show plan for the savior going to learn a little bit about the marshall house were going to learn a little about the marshall center were going to learn a lot about john marshall himself the great chief justice who in many ways made the supreme court what it is today. and it's one of our guests argues, helps keep the american union together in its early years. as it happens it is march 4

along the date of presidential inauguration and on this date in 1801 chief justice john marshall administer the presidential oath of office to his cousin and his nemesis thomas jefferson. will be talking with author robert strauss on marshall in just a moment. first a very lucky to have a couple special guest with us here this evening to tells more about the importance of preserving the past, to help shape our future and look delighted to welcome jennifer hurst-wender the director of museum operations and education and welcomes you both a gift for joining us this evening. see mick thanks for having us. direct thank you. jen talked was a little little about the john marshall house what goes on there? >> i am absolutely thrilled today detectable the john marshall house. but in order to really

understand the john marshall house and going to tell a little bit about preservation virginia the organization that runs and operates the john marshall house. we've been around for one or 32 years of the nation's oldest preservation organization. we actually own and operate the john marshall house smith court, lighthouse and also stork jamestown. so i have the opportunity to be the director of museum operations for all those wonderful historic places. but, we're also an organization that the statewide preservation and there's a lot of people we've actually worked with that john marshall and his family would have interacted with. for example we been in coordination to support the creation of a memorial park.

we also worked to preserve the lodge which is also in richmond. both of those sites were included so also had a wonderful restoration team and we have been able to restore john marshall's childhood home. we worked on places like monumental church which was a church that marshall helped found in richmond. and so now i'll get to the john marshall house. they marshall house was built in 1794 john marshall and his family. he lived there until his death in 1835. at that time it actually passed to his daughter and then his granddaughter before and being to the city. so when john marshall had this house is built in 1790, it was already an urban setting.

under one entire city block. you can see the house there on the right hand corner. he would have only had to watch two blocks to go to the virginia capitol or he would've worked and met his colleagues on a very regular basis. the houses actually built in an area known as court in. is collingswood but other lawyers doctors prominent to richmond. it would a smokehouse a one half story kitchen a half story laundry and two-story brick law office on that one city block. so it is sometimes referred to as an urban plantation i do it to note that any given time given on this property peopling robin spurlock which is in was enslaved. we've only just begun to study

three continuing to research other people who work on the site. >> you go ahead and have got a question about operations currently. so well i'll kind of answer that right now. we have some restrictions in place. i have been for all of 2020 who are open for a little while, with close for the season. but the entire time was offered digital programming. limiting the size to six people to maintain social distancing. that will be starting again back in april. system great interior shots of the home.

thanks to preservation virginia leadership we ended up acquiring the house and operating in 1909. we were able to maintain a lot of the original furnishing. at this point we have just under about 50% belonging to john marshall and his family. and also in the picture on the left the portrait is of john marshall's mother. but you can see kind of like the closet. there are books in there there's our first edition copy of george washington's biography. so for those of you who are not familiar marshall wrote the first biography of george washington. he had a trump full of washington's papers delivered to this richmond home. >> i love these stories of marshall's correspondence and

he's like can i have this cache of papers and can you imagine how wrong that could have gone if they just got lost or something. thanks jen very much how can people find more or learn more about your organization for on your web? spirit our website is preservation virginia.org. also have a very heavy presence on instagram and facebook. you can check out those preservation virginia as a larger organization. can also check out the john marshall house facebook page an instagram. because of the preservation website you'll be able to find john marshall house as well. great, thank you very much for that segues into talking to kevin. as you can imagine marshall spent a good deal spaces kevin thing about constitutional law and the data of the republican early years. could you tells a little bit

about the marshall center for constitutional history and civics? >> absolutely and thank you for hosting this event this evening. looking forward to hearing about the book. he called at the final founder. you know, we think marshall is really one of those underappreciated heroes of american history that did hold the country together in a lot of ways. and the john marshall center for constitutional history and civics is a way of connecting the constitution to classrooms and through civics education continuing legal education. getting judges and lawyers not to zoom right in to classrooms. also provide resources for teachers. uber found that i guess in the late '80s to support preservation virginia's john marshall house which is truly a treasure here in richmond. but, we have expanded to a

kind of outreach in terms of history and education and civics. so for example the justice in the class or program have a give teachers lesson plans where they can teach about rule of law or they stand for example what is the role of the chief justice and impeachment? or today is the 220th anniversary swearing in thomas jefferson. marshall knew the first seven president personally. what can teachers bring into the classroom about inauguration? peaceful transfer of power? our name says it all the john marshall center for constitutional history and civics to really bring them live in classrooms. >> you alluded to judges zooming into the classroom. but given the pandemic was your experience been like working with teachers to promote educational experiences cut through digital means at this period?

>> we are all muddling through together. i think we have online resources that people can use that is a good thing. every teacher is doing his or her best to provide the strength some of us. i teach lot the university of richmond law school. i quickly learned how to make interesting or uninteresting presentations. we found it to be a challenge. but the teachers have risen to the challenge. we are all kind of doing this together. >> working folks reach the marshall center these days? >> that can go to john marshall center.org. as well as special partnership with preservation virginia to save john marshall's robe. i would say go to save the rope.com. you can construe national

treasure. john marshall really led the way in terms of standardizing the black standard row people some people think he was the first go to his wikipedia page i guarantees not wearing a black robe. marshall kind of standardized that it became the uniform for the judicial branch throughout the united states. we are working with preservation virginia to preserve john marshall's robe so i was a john marshall center.org or savetherobe.com. >> we have a couple pictures of the robe itself i do believe it called us up to look at. as for looking at the rope, you talk about marshall standardizing these things, where did john marshall come down or not wearing a wig on the bench? >> [laughter] that was the big question right? i want to say cushing or once

and then he went home and took it off. it did not really catch. so the wig was kind of a little aristocratic. these things really did make a difference in people were paying attention. i think he wore a simple black robe which he took from the virginia court at the time was really a gesture toward a kind of republican simplicity and impartiality. and in some ways the outreach the jeffersonian. the election of 1800 was pretty terrible. so marshall took the bench and 1801 in black robes that meant something. >> was at the robe he was wearing when he sworn jefferson? >> [laughter] the curate of trip the curator and you must be factual about that and say that likely. [laughter] this robust bit in our collection for 108 years.

when it was in the public it was a star attraction. and as far as we know this is the robe. we do not know that he had more, he never wrote about it. he did write about having a robe but he did not write about having more than one. so's far as we know this is the rope. [laughter] 's event to bill that jen said maybe was the second not gratian, john quincy adams, andrew jackson first or second time, there's a good chance this thing was that it inauguration since marshall did so many of them. he met so many of our conservator noted when he was analyzing the robe is there is hair pop made in quite a bit of sweat that is exit

contributed to some of the deterioration of the robe. it was definitely worn. >> golly, that is really cool. thank you very much as both you for coming and joining us this evening until the summer but the marshal house and the robe. that's pretty neat i would like to see that in person someday. >> i can tell you when. >> stout just announced on april 15 will be having a virtual unveiling. the robust x return to the john marshall house on april 15 will be sending out if you go ahead and follows on any of our platforms will be sending out announcement so you can see it. suspect that's great. every would synchronize your watches. thanks kevin, jen, thanks so much. >> absolutely. >> that was terrific. now my pleasure to welcome to the stage for our guess this evening robert strauss.

robert strauss is an author and journalist each of the university of pennsylvania's previous work includes pro the best i've ever heard, worst president ever which is a portrait of james buchanan and how historians rank presidents written is here tonight is aqaba's new book john marshall the final founder. welcome to the program and thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much. it's a little scary. normally i go someplace with the people do not know anything about what i'm talking about. and so now i'm talking to people, practically everybody else knows more than i do about john marshall. >> will talk about marshall have a quiz at the end. rick exactly. >> marshall is the answer on final jeopardy last friday. it was a clue in the sense. strapless works out just nicely.

before we get started check but your book, robert doing to remind the audience to have an opportunity to ask questions a few second half of the final segment of tonight show. folks can do that by typing in comments or watching on facebook, youtube, or twitter. my colleagues and i will monitor those questions and bring those to your robert stupid have low face time you will with the audience. >> the big question is if written about james buchanan, white john marshall? what drew you to him? >> may go back to i'm interested in history in the first place. my career was as a journalist pretty much. but when i was young, group outside of philadelphia a big history buff. he took me into philadelphia to see i must've been in independent. i always develop this oddball

history. the first book i remember getting is a simple facts about the president. and it would minera james monroe's mother died or what calvin coolidge favorite spots were. in any case brought me these figurines of presidents part i rose marshall's not a president. the point is its little bits of history but accumulate in my brain and the way i looked at history is alone more upbeat i would say. that's why i can bring to the study of john marshall. there plenty facts out there.

this is things about american history and that's what i love about it. why marshall? after i'd done buchanan and is asked to speak about buchanan because who knows or not another buchanan expert out there i suppose. i wanted to choose somebody who was important but not that well known. i've always thought about the 1h century. oh it did tv station that was down the street from independence hall. sometimes at work at night the lights are sort of dim on the background the liberty bell is just there. i saw an apparition of ben franklin and thomas jefferson walking down the street. big party last night.

[i want to know about the rest of their time. and marshall i feel, as i tell people, picked up a marshall biography instead mind to be marshall three exclamation points. i just was not a guy who sat there with a quill pen writing. vicki brought up versus madison you noted a lot of people probably know marshall for that fact that great decision about the judiciary. also the fact he was chief justice. can you give us a little bit of sense of marshall's life? what does that look like? >> you have to go back to mid 1h century united states.

it is not from aristocracy at all but came from then establish families. there establish for a couple generations. people see queen elizabeth has to do something because some merit down the line doing with these people had to do in a certain sense. a lot of people don't understand everybody knew one another. first everyone knew everybody. so this marshall that was a

friend of george washington's, right? so much in the tidewater was friendly with somebody way over in west virginia or whatever a call over they live these days. they grew up and what would be steps that move up the corporate or political letter today. except the steps weren't as, i don't know the word concrete people made their way the way they wanted to. virtually no school. they went to a year of boarding school once. then administer command and teach him and he went to five seconds school at william and

mary. yet he was able to thrive. george washington did not go to college either. it was just a different kind of growing up. we sort of want to say the founders did this or the founders did that and they were relayed or they were marshall was, sort of like the gym teacher of valley forge. he would make up games he was the fastest runner there was a diary entry of somebody or journal entry and said he could jump over a pole that was suspended onto people's heads. that's pretty good he could've made the olympics that they'd had the olympics there. i think he probably did it to

keep the spirits of the troops. valley forge as we all know. it was that kind of thing. you progress on from that click on military start going out with the daughter of a prominent person in town. and then you go to philadelphia that's another one of the great myths. currently in the times marshall wanted to get inoculated from smallpox. it's like anything else it was like groaning you had to get everybody's approval and so

the way to get around that for him was to go to philadelphia and so the legend as he walked to philadelphia in five or six days which was virtually impossible today but it is impossible when he had to go through weeds and trees to get there. we'll just say he did seriously what we do and how the legend's vehicles talk about his relationship with george washington. you mention his relationship moments ago and his jen pointed in the background there the living room there is a set of washington by john marshall, what was our relationship like?

>> i would say marshall was washington's chief accolade. they met at valley forge. they could've met before because his father knew him. i cannot say for that. but certainly they met at valley forge. it was in the low tens of thousands and maybe not even that. so, if this guy was a junior officer probably made the contact because they were not doing anything at valley forge. they might have planned battles but they were not actually having them. so the probably met there they probably suppressed in some way. he was a soldier through new jersey and then he quit. but later on washington sought

him to be in the cabin that he offered a couple cabinet posts or attorney general's post. not a silly cabinet but high judicial posts. and then there was a time marshall came with washington to mount vernon to see washington who wanted him to run for congress. and marshall viewed as losing proposition because he was a federalist and republican area. but still, after being there couple of days the knew he was trying to leave and came out and said i'm sorry you're doing this, so it was not that unusual being friends

with washington's nephew and when washington died they arranged for marshall to write the first biography of washington. cementless talk little bit about that biography. the collection at the washington library what is marshall's intent there? what does he hope to accomplish by writing this? >> the thing is you walk inside option philadelphia. space and time in the 18th century it took several days for the news of washington's death to get to marshall in philadelphia.

there was no i95. did not come up there. there was not any washington then obviously. the writer obviously had to switch horses, had to cook at his gps out, i don't think they had gps. but anyway getting back to this, does not want to write this biography. he figures his friend marshall could use the money. they'd arrange to have a subscription service for this biography. is going to be three volumes i guess. there's going going to come out in three pieces. i was going to cost nothing by dollars but it really doesn't matter. a sum of money that would be reasonable. so marshall is a little slow

on this. it does not quite come out on time. and the people asked for their money back. i did not bring up the negative thing here. the night invited the first volume. [inaudible] people are hungry for a washington biography the same way they are looking for a steven king novel, they will get it. in this publisher in philadelphia, the best story is john adams who of course knows washington it's like to flow, it's years later. so in the meantime there is this guy was working as a salesman for this publisher in philadelphia we know him as. [inaudible] pre-picks up the idea will i can write a better one than

this. and he writes the myths of george washington. he writes the cherry tree all the stuff that we know i don't know if he had wooden teeth in the story. then he qualifies it as some sort of euphemism that's not fiction or not nonfiction it somewhere in the middle. [laughter] i'm sure marshall was incredibly disappointed. i'm sure he viewed this thing is being up there in everybody's house with the bible and their kids drawings or whatever else everybody would have. lots of famous people have written biographies of washington, washington irving for instance wrote one there

are other prominent people not just historians who love washington. so i think marshall wanted everything about george washington to be in this book. he viewed him as this wonderful man and he wanted to write a wonderful man biography. >> as a writer you sometimes find yourself sympathizing with marshall who labored over this work and sometimes it works and sometimes it didn't. dispersed in my book are little essays about american history that marshall inspired me to it write. marshall almost became the craziness i would not say almost became in the craziness of the election.

as a section of other people who could have been president henry clay, henry stevenson, jefferson davis and so on. so i think that yes is more biographies of marshall or fewer biographies of any sort of james buchanan. i know i view things differently from what i call real historians who really want to get all defects out. want to write a big book. i don't want to write a big book i want to write a story book by people to get inspired to look up different things to look at valley forge. we know valley forge everybody died they had rags for shoes

and they starve to death. that is not the real story. that is part of the story. they all starve to death would not have won the revolution would we? it was tough it was not time a death march either. >> speaking of inspiration will be coming up on the questions in a few moments a switch remind the folks at home you have a question for robert please do typos into the comments. we'll be collecting those interns your questions here in about ten or 15 minutes or so. you know robert, or the key things you discussed in your book is this idea that marshall is head of the court in the early 19th century really helps to keep the union together in the period after the constitution is adopted. how did he court accomplish this in your view? >> [inaudible]

john basically nothing to do. he couldn't have a workpiece, he could not have a sub federal problem yet because this country just started. this is one of the things that people would be appalled that if they had today he was the supreme court chief justice. he ran off and negotiate a peace treaty with england. one he detained chief justices the third justice went off to negotiate as well as chief justice. then he stuck there because he gets sick. we need to move the chief justice. now they go off to europe and that's another thing i loved is that people forget how the country is so massive in

comparison to other places. and try to be so modern. but how do the people in massachusetts note the people in south carolina were thinking? it took days if not weeks to get a letter there. how did madison tell jefferson what was happening in france when it took, if they were lucky three or four weeks to get the message over there. marshall was negotiating the affair how did he know what the administration wanted him to do? so i feel that marshall is sitting there waiting for the right job. he refuses all of these jobs. he does take secretary of state and meanwhile secretary of state and chief justice at the same time.

he would have to quit one or the other but who knows. but in any case, he finally finds chief justice is the job he wants because he can see where things are going. where the conflicts are going between the newly found parties the federalist and the republicans and he can see where the split might happen between legislative and executive things people not listening to something. he can see the buildup of the supreme court or the courts in general as the arbiters of this. expect in the sense of hearing the country i feel he is preserving you cannot prove the negative. i don't see anybody else saving at the way he did. washington of course we know washington is gone. that's a thing if anyone

watched hamilton can understand once washington is gone the great beginner of the country, somebody has to take over. all these people do want to take over. they are pretty smart people adams, jefferson and all. they need somebody like marshall. if it wasn't would have to be someone else. >> as you said part of what you're doing in your book is explorations of american history. i did lead the opening introduction you talk about your father drag new to all the different places when you are kid. as a graduate of the virginia i have to ask and have a question about humanities here in a second but would you mind on the story about the time your father essentially browbeat an ark must at the collection when they pulled out jefferson's will? >> anyone who's a friend of mine and knew my father would

of course believe he would do this. he was a small chance smart man who was a lawyer and a municipal judge for long time. but he was a big history buff. so in 1961 was a civil war centennial he was determined we were going to leave our sacred home in new jersey at christmas time and take a little drive around. we went to the battlefields, frankly more civil wars than that. we get and he is enamored. i don't know what was going on in his head. but we go into the library or wherever the archives were, and he says to the sky i want to bring out jefferson's will. judge so-and-so like a guy he made up, right? judge so-and-so said i could come here and view it. the guy must be little also he

said no, sir we cannot do that. we cannot do that we cannot bring out that. and he said will judge so-and-so said it was okay. finally the guy does do this. my father reacted and he framed it in five pieces and he put on his office wall and now it's on my office wall. i'm sure whatever they do now with jefferson's will is much better than what i have. [inaudible] that is a fun story speaks to the fact is instilled early on with the love of history and humanities. there's a chapter in your book you kind of talk about the importance of studying history and an error right now were talking a lot about investing

in funding and how much we should put towards things like science, technology, engineering, and math. and often the case it comes with a cost, what is your sense to enforce? >> i went to a liberal arts school, my kids went to david's and also a small liberal arts school. david mccullough and one of his talks, it's reprinted in the pioneers book talks about how history is no different than any of the other it's poetry and disrespecting your past. if you don't study history a little bit we talked often about the fallacy of the media. what's happening now is the most important thing. it's the forest for the trees argument. yes it's all around you

joining have to have social media. it's just all around you what is happening today. somebody will say that was the greatest world series also since last year because this is what's happening now. and when i would go out to talk certainly it was for the buchanan book it was the time of the 2016 election people say oh my god this is the worst possible thing ono like 18561800, american history did not go back that far. one of the things i believe i put my book was marshall's great decisions, what great decisions. when you read that rudiments of the cases medicine could

really be if you wrote it right sitcom. could be too much to go into it. one of the basic things and marshall secretary of state gotten marbury's commission down. it is consistent. but who would allow barbary versus madison today? they would be appalled. what a conflict of interest. they're looking for the last three supreme court justice but other things about their particular conflicts of interest. that's a nothing, the greatest decision that americans had. >> at the end of the day than robert, you called your book john marshall the final founder. why is marshall the final

founder? sweet mickey is the last guy working there were two people who we might call founders who lived longer than him erin burr and james mattis. but they retired. they might've not wanted to be retired but medicine was totally retired. marshall was a chief justice. i live in philadelphia same place john marshall died, same building in the united states. he comes up is got kidney stones. forget he's in washington or richmond at the time, he writes all the way up your with kidney stones. now there is a man. that's a guy who's living and

he died in philadelphia basically on the operating table. but is working until then. and has a very long career. the 30 some years he was chief justice is only part of it. i hope it will get to read my book and what people did as founding fathers that really was not that hard bread like him this on 3 million people in the first census. two main white people i'm sorry. you people who could sylvie there even less than that that could have been founding fathers. current and western virginia. if you really wanted to be a

founding father then you probably would be able to do it. >> about to turn to audience questions pretty guess i have to ask, not john quincy adams. [inaudible] [laughter] he has an star. he did go off with his father but he was a little young woody first started. he was still ten or 11 when he was in england with his father. i do not count him. he is too young. is the roger mares of the founding fathers with the star. >> that is true that is true. [laughter] speak with you probably talk all night but let's get to some audience questions i know they are coming in. how do you see marshall's personality in italy? was he serious was he a heavy guy? humorous?

probably easy to look at the sky and think he's a lawyer and very serious and whatnot. but what do i know? >> he was one of the great partiers of his time. they did a thing called writing circuit when their supreme court justices. each of them had certain states and he had north carolina. and virginia he was off to raleigh the capitol of north carolina was 700 people. can you imagine 700 people? but when he got to raleigh there's a certain number cases but each night you go to the same pub and know the same people. madero was the big drink of the time. i'm on ever tasted it to know what is it's a kind of fortified wine. there is a club in richmond he started this club i don't know

people remember when your little kid you had a poll is not a horseshoe but a circular thing with a hole in the middle. that was is a big thing. he was also, he recorded his wife she was a young teenager he met her 13 i know this is appalling. but it's true. he's in law school at william and mary and islam notes he finds little things little inscriptions but kids in our era would do in junior high. polly and john or something like this. he was a whimsical guy.

he had his tough hard parts but he really wanted to get things done and i don't know a happier -- subject we could only drink at the supreme court on rainy days. he would get one of the young justices to go out and pull back the curtain to see what it is. at this sinusitis it's raining somewhere. [laughter] he was the jimmy buffett of supreme court justices. >> now have the image of marshall innate lions shirt. >> thank you very much for your question. adam would like to know is a james buchanan question and a marshall question. his wife was a federalist do we know if his early career he crosses paths with or it was

influenced by john marshall? >> look they all knew each other. once buchanan comes to washington as a congressman he's got to know the supreme court justice and whether was influenced by marshall particularly i do not know. but just like anyplace else in lancaster at the time he started, you had to be a federalist. it's just the way it was when he finally converted so to speak. i don't want to get into buchanan too much but he was mostly influenced by henry clay was the generation federalist. >> very good thanks adam very much. live another question coming in from mick hughes. whit beecher to say marshall at a true appreciation for

john adams effort to hold the country together after washington? >> he was a great friend of john adams. one of the mythical probably conversations was when they had to find a new chief justice. marshall, i forget who he wanted. it does not matter. he said so-and-so and adams said no i think it will be you. >> there all sort of friends. i know more about philadelphia than washington. one of the things marshall did was in a sense a supervisor of the building of washington d.c. as down the secretary of state doing whatever he was doing it adam says it's too hot here

and going to quincy it's your job. so it's possible that marshall was a first person to sleep in the white house because he did sort of bunk in their while who supervising. i don't if it's for sure he supervised the building of the capitol and the white house, but he had to get it done before his family could move in. >> we've got time for two more questions on the one coming in now were some of the founding fathers and important people of that time that marshall was closest to and agreed with most? talked a lot about that. but who do you see as the men he was closest to and who he aligned with ideologically? >> certainly adams. more important to note just like you know your enemies, there are three ways jefferson

did not like it. you mention this the thing or antagonists. they would have been in our alleged sitcom would be the angry neighbors. but they were second cousins so they are related by marriage. and then his father-in-law if we can follow this married woman who spurned jefferson. that is bad enough to comment different parties. the federalists he is the last federalist, too. federalist really broke up very quickly. however you have to remember this. when they had -- when marshall was appointed and approved the federalist had the congress and the presidency.

but right the next day of course, march 4, 1801, the democrat republicans have the president. they both had congress. but every single judge, federal judge in america was a federalist. can you imagine people are complaining about the supreme court now we have a conservative supreme court. so think about back then. thank you jefferson was facing. as an avalanche of opposition in the courts. >> that's one of the reasons it lasts so long because he erbil to accomplish that goal. thank you for much margo our final question this evening goes to lisa what is the limit of your process when you're researching marshall was there one thing that surprised you gave you because her gave you the ability chief justice marshall all the better? >> been in the white house

when one of the presidents court barack obama had young daughters thirds that you cannot go out with him he's not good enough you or something like this. something that william are ready know or reprimanding them for leaving the butter out or something. trying to imagine what his daily life was. any seem to like his life. he loved his wife even though she went she really became a recluse after two of her children died in childbirth and two died. he always wrote her letters when he was off in washington and she was in richmond and insisted on letters back from her. he seemed to have this great

light he is the chief justice. any list some 23-year-old. these people have real lives. and when you watch john adams that was on tv, sometimes he gets the idea that all my god how does he live in? he's so dour all the time. he had black shades over him. i think he had this great life. when i read something that's factually try to imagine what he is thinking. to me that's what history is about. and i encourage everybody to find some little aspect of history. by the one of students i mentor in carlson and i

started a podcast called stand up history. we only have one zafar. [laughter] that's the life of podcast i don't know that many people listen to them except us. we are just trying to find humorous aspects of history pray they don't have to be exactly humorous all the time. but american history. when you try to encapsulated the best thing is to find something you're interested in your head saying what really were they doing? spitball folks you should go out and check the podcast for that one episode and hopefully there will be more. [laughter] >> that's right, it's called stand up history. i wrote that into it but it's a guy named daniel sickle who is an interesting character

who everybody knew when he was live in the middle part the middle to late part and nobody knows who he is now. he's the same character praised >> that's a great teaser robert thank you very much for spending your time with us this evening we really appreciate you coming in talking with us about john marshall. : : recent book about 1783 and be sure to check out our lecture

series that will take place over the course of march, april and may and it explores the moment in considerable detail, for more information about the lecture series march 10th, to watch the replay of any of our talks, go to www. mountvernon.org/gwtalks. i just want to thank jeanette patrick and samantha snyder for