having soon acting university is coming up in june and it's going to be a lot of different speakers dealing with the complex moral theological philosophical foundation of a free society. there's a lot of interesting speakers coming in panels, please sign up for that and unfortunately because of covid is going to be on virtual but everyone around the world can join in go to ask did not work for that and thank you again for this lecture series. ♪

>> booktv continues on c-span2, television for serious readers. >> welcome to the national press club the world's leading professional organization for journalists i am mike freedman immediate past president of the national press club and the former general manager of cbs radio network and journalistic residence at university of maryland global campus and executive producer of public broadcasting series moderated by today's virtual headliners guest journalist, we are pleased except questions from those tuningto in today, i will ask as many as time permits to submit a question please e-mail headliners@press.org. for 27 years i have had the privilege and pleasure of working with and introducing this gentleman for 101 reprograms at the national press club.

the introduction is always the same, ladies and gentlemen please welcome the last correspondent personally hired as cbs news by edward and the gold standard of broadcast journalism my friend and colleague marvin cal. >> thank you, that is the kindest intro, please do it again and again. [laughter] >> for his 17th book just published by brookings press, marvin presents the second installment of his autobiography. it's entitled assignment russia becoming a foreign correspondent in the crucible of the cold war. marvin has describedcr the books a long letter home after unforgettable personal adventure. it covers the period of his life from his arrival at cbs in 1957 through his years as correspondent from 1960 - 1963 it is a personal and professional coming-of-age story, one that has deep roots and family history and the love

of the country that welcomed oppressed people from around the world with open arms and opportunity. marvin, welcome back to the national press club. >> thank you, it'sue a pleasure for me too be here and i think the press club and you especially for not only being a gracious producer but also the guy who opened so many doors. >> marvin he called you professor and you called him sir, and he described you to colleagues as our kind of guy, i'm speaking of course of edward mentor to you and i can't to the rest of us talk about the beginning of your career at cbs which is where the book begins. >> right, theok book begins with what may strike people, chapter if there was ever a journalist and you ever arrive at the first moment when you know that you

become professional a journalist, what is it like and i can tell you for me in late june of 1957 it was certainly not what i had expected, i had expected news, huge newsroom, lots of people screaming, reporters trying to get their copy and as quickly as possible, editors screaming for copies, producers getting upset, upi wires, everybody screaming news, news, news, i walked in at midnight on a midnight to 8:00 a.m. shift of cbs 52nd street and madison avenue and like there wasn't a soul there. nobody, i walked in to an empty newsroom and there was nothing

more empty in life for a journalist in an empty newsroom. i was going off of my phd in harvard, i knew i thought how to write a phd dissertation but no one as they hired me, no one had ever said marvin you're going to have to write a three minute and 552nd radio broadcast, no one told me how to do it, i had no clue, i walked in there was nobody there and i was terrified and i kept walking around from one to another looking at news but the tickertape's were miraculously silent that night. no one was helping me and i began to go into a panic at 3:0n

suddenly tells one off at the reuterss ticker which is what happened in those days, bells indicated i pick myself up and ran over to reuters and ripped a copy off and it read 27 people died when the boat they were in capsized in the river in india and my first reaction, i'm ashamed to say was thank god because i had a new story, add something to write about. and i finally did write something and i gave it to the editor who came in at 430 in the morning, bouncy guy with the yankee baseball hat. his lunch in a small bag, he said you must be marvin, i'm your editor.

do you have your copy, i said yes, sir, i give it to him, he sat down and he looked at it in my heart dropped because i was hoping there would be a smile on his face, something to indicate satisfaction but in about five minutes to five he threw my copy aside putting fresh paper into his typewriter and a ferocious speed batted out a new broadcast in in an, minute to five the man came in, picked it up and we read it and it sounded like my early intervention it was so well done and the broadcast was over he came over to me and he

said marvin you're really good writer but you don't know how to write a radio newscast. and he explained what it was like and he became oney of my go twos. >> there's a moment in time when you can merge what you bring to the mix what you bring on the job, was evolutionary for you, was there a particular moment when you felt about this, i really can do this. >> you would be surprised but to this day i never feel that i've done it, i always felt that i am doing the information of the public and as honestly as i can,

i tell you right now that satisfaction with my own words is never something i have felt, i always had a sense that it could be a lot better and i try harder, but i say to you that when i was in moscow for the first time as a reporter which was may 1960, i did feel like coming together of the knowledge that i have accumulated about russia, the language in the history, that i had been picking up in college and graduate school and working at the u.s. embassy in moscow in 1956, seven and the requirements of taking that knowledge and putting it into a radio spot a minute and a

half television spots and somehow another despite the compression still to convey the reality and substance honestly to the american people, in a sense that the two dide come together whenever the total satisfaction. >> i would like to redo something interview, our wonderful mutual friend and colleague offer the following description, and dick said even now many years later i think of that as skilled tenacious reporter and ape brave man of fe human being as a boss he lay down no rules, may no suggestions as to style or content he demanded only a clear and appropriate colorful presentation, he was scrupulously fair and his

colleagues accepted his choices without complaint, he led by example not command, he is usually furled brow expressed a pessimistic side for a nationwide audience and when he smiled it was i sunrise, he knew his own worth but was not arrogant or overbearing, he had a sense of theater as in his stress as well is a sonority that marked his speech, his physical bravery was matched by his moral courage that rang out in his television documentaries, his style was serious, long experience of the microphone did not makee him casual, he saw his broadcast as a service to the iraqi people. inaccurate to fiction. >> absolutely, that is so beautifully stated only by somebody who worked with him for

a long time which is certainly what he did he started with him back in 1944 in london, he was a young leader who spoke german at waran with germany and he wanted very much to persuade the bureau chief of cbs of london and he had a doubt about his broadcast capability, but he eliminated that immediately because he was with a friend and he knows what the story is, he knew the story, like i can tell you the first time i met him was in may of 1957 ion written an article to the new york times magazine about soviet youth i was in a

library monday morning and the library came over to me and he would like to talk to you. i turned to the librarian is one of the stupidest sequences in my life and said ed morrow is not quoting me, forget about it it's a quack, just enough on him, i don't know whether she actually did but late that afternoon she came back to me and said marvin it's the same band as he so calls himself admiral and maybe want to pick up the phone and talk to him. so why did not believe he was calling me but when i heard his voice that magnificent voice, what a total jackass.

>> how did i not pick up the phone the first time. and i apologize to him repeatedly and he said don't worry about that. can you come and see me tomorrow morning in new york in my office at 9:00 o'clock i said yes, sir, i will be there and he answered professor i will see you and thatha established professor si, relationship that we had with each other i was there the morning like the secretary said to me as i walked in, mr. morrow was very busy he's only got about a half hour. i said absolutely, fine with me. we spoke for three hours, he asked me question after question about the soviet union, the soviet youth the religion, their education when they got married and they had an apartment what

was it like with in-laws he wanted to know everything about the soviet union which was our principal adversary in the midst of the cold war. after we spoke for three hours he put his arm on my shoulder as we walked out, he said by the way how would you like to work for cbs. it took me all of three seconds to say yes, sir, i will be here and that's the way that he hired the deep description's of him is so perfect and he did look as he carried the weight of the world on his shoulders and he probably felt that way too. but he felt that he had an obligation to convey reality, no matter how tough it might be to

air to the american people and they will decide and what it is they have done. your job as a reporter to provide information they commend you to use information as they chose. >> you mentioned that dick spoke german and you speak russian and the russian studies as is your wife madalyn, tell us about the underpinning of your interest in russian studies in your desire to be in moscow. >> that's a long story and i'll try to cut in half. my mother and father were both products of the czarist empire. from poland ukraine it was very

large empire. my father came here in 1914 before the outbreak of world war i my mother in 1913 in this country opened and welcomed its stores and welcomed these two people who had suffered different forms of religious persecution, they welcomed into the united states and they provided them with the opportunity, nothing is guaranteed but they provided them with opportunity for personal freedom and observance as a chose an opportunity and you don't necessarily pull it off and i felt right then and there as a reporter i wanted to

pay back, and expression that is very special to me, the idea that you pay back this country for what this country has done, yet it had done wonderful things for my mother and father and then for us as her offspring. and this is an opportunity in bthis book to describe them and to describe my brother and myself. and that is the reader an opportunity for understanding payback, thinking america for what it is that you did for my

parents and for us immediately. i didn't know enough about paybacks but i do know and i feel very strongly that it's important that everybody had an opportunity and gives them the opportunity for religious freedom, political freedom and economic opportunity. >> let's stay in moscow we have a series of questions about your time spent there, your prep for it in the execution of your duties, from former national press club president gil klein you were in moscow during the cuba crisis do you think war was imminent and what were the signs that you are seen. >> let me point out getting into

moscow my brother bernie who has always been extremely influential in e my life, he is the one who steered me in the direction of russia in the study of the russian language and i have been through a great deal a of work in the army intelligence, that gave me a clearance that allowed me too work at the u.s. embassy in moscow in the job in a sense with anyone else. that was in may of 1960. through the missile crisis of october 62, by that time i was an experienced moscow correspondent, i felt that i knew what it was that the russians were trying to say to the americans as well to the

wrong people in the question whether i thought we would have war, yes that possibility ran through my mind that i did not feelel ever to the cuban missile crisis that we were going into war, i thought that this was an effort to s solve the berlin crisis which they described as a bone in my throat and he wanted to in that crisis by frightening the united states and striking a deal that would lead to a russian control over all of berlin in the united states from western berlin. so i saw this as diplomacy, very dangerous diplomacy but diplomacy and not a step toward

war and that made it easy for me but my boss in new york and wonderful man asked me whether to send my wife off to shopping in scandinavia to get her out of moscow because he feared that it could very well be an attack. i did t not agree. >> a question from our friend sam who is a member of the national press club during the cold war americans tend to think of an ordinary russian as a kind of missed mysterious other about whom they knew little, could you share some stories of russians you met and how they impressed you. >> let me tell you russians come in many different shapes and

sizes, they are not a standard form there russian intellectuals with whom any harvard professor could feel very comfortable spending an entire day, week, month or year with in the scholarship, wonderful people and also people like putin who run the country and there are many bureaucrats in between. and for russian history, there has been truly a sense that the russian people require a strong leader someone who dual tell them what to do and they will do it. for many years that was the case. but what struck me as fascinating and the first time i was there, the leader of the soviet union wanted to initiate

a program of policy of reform throughout the entire country he did some of that but he got into trouble doing that, he said this far and no further to give back. in 1956 he delivered a speech denouncing stalin insane in effect to go through a little bit of activity a little bit of motion but the door was shut. and that happened in the whole country kind of stopped. and then he arrived in the open the door once again and there was a possibility that democracy under the success could actually happen inco modern-day russia ad

people could travel, talk and open up and do things that are exciting, at this particular time we are in the earlier. of cracking down and where we are unfortunately is at a moment when the doors are being shut on russian talent and you think back the musicians and the riders and the composers you cannot be at a concert without running into a piece of russian music, they're all over the place, it is there but there is a heavy head of oppression sitting on o it. >> this is a follow-up from sam about something you just mentioned how is the russian conceptmo of democracy different from the west, american particular.

>> they don't know that they can inforget it and what they have n mind is something that is not quite a western style of democracy, i think they have an exaggerated sense of democracy, and that's the same way as they go back a little bit when people like my father came to this country in 1914, he felt before he got here he felt that this country was in english translated a golden paradise that there would be money on every street corner for people to dip into, yet totally height exaggeration and i think the russian people today have essentially theha same idea and his people are trying to paint the west and american democracy

is bad stuff. , poisonous. >> that democracy opinion, we are trying to draw a distinction between and i have to quickly add many americans for going for extreme conservatives, trumped followers, trying to say essentially the same thing. that is we against them, the bad guys. saying essentially the same thing. >> this is a question from the mccarran executive director of the national press club, can you discuss the process that you used to meet with russian sources, did any of these come into danger because of contact with you, how do you feel about that? >> i was talking to y somebody yesterday and tried to explain

and they asked me what would it be like for an american journalist working insi russia today as opposed to when you were there, one of the points i was trying to make, in my time things were so tight in the middle of the cold war communism, if i went over and talk to a russian citizen on the street, asked him a question where is red square, it is likely, not certain but likely that some person, some police person would go over to the russian citizen and began to question him if the foreigner wanted from you. in other words and asking the simplest question of a russian,

who could get that russian into a lot of trouble. if i got information from a russian source i had to be very clear about this. they did not come dangling from fruit from a tree in springtime, they were very rare indeed. because everybody lived in a frightening environment, tight environment. those who did talk to me they took huge risks and i took a wrist to. . . . opening them to a kgb crackdown on them and their family. so it was always on your mind as a reporter -- it should have been -- that you could get these people in terrible trouble so be careful. >> host: an interesting followup from bill mccarran, did the

russians ever try to recruit you when you were there, and what was that like if so and did you report it? >> guest: i'm sorry to disappoint you but to the best of my knowledge -- maybe they tried it by want aware of it. about to the best money knowledge number ever tried to re nobody ever tried to improve things as such. you did get into conversations with russia, in which they would try to persuade you. i am not aware of any serious professionalin effort. >> from what you shared in your first autobiographical book the year i was peter the great, we

learn more about crew shows, the soviet premier and about your most interesting relationship with him and his relationship with you. talk about that relationship with khrushchev. >> i will do it in two stories. first the ambassadors residence and khrushchev arrived and that was a big deal because it indicated they wanted it to be friends with us and there were only four people who spoke russian.

i was an interpreter trained he loved to drink and i did not. i was there while he had eight buckets and when the party was over, he kind of said i was drinking water by the way while he drink vodka and he said i finally found a young american who can drink like a russian and he burst into laughter and said how tall are you. i said 3 centimeters shorter than peter the great.

he loved that line and to this day. he's associated me with peter the great. the second story on my first big storyis with paris 1960, there s a meeting that never quite happened and two weeks before the summit, the spy plane was shot down-- over russia so whene arrived in paris and it was my first big story, my responsibility was to cover

khrushchev so i knew him from this experience, several experiences in 1956 in my peter the great mode. i said i know he normally goes out in the morning for a walk. let me have a crew at 6 a.m. in front of the embassy. if he comes out maybe i can get an interview with him. he was reluctant but he said okay. it's quiet as can be and 6:30 comes around and the cameraman says are you sure and i said i'm

not sure of anything but he comes out to 7:00, doors open up, khrushchev emerges with two bodyguards. we rushed towards him, he looked at me and said here comes peter the great. by w the way his bodyguards immediately reached into their jackets to pull out what i assume was a weapon and khrushchev says no no no, he's okay. we then walked down a block and there was a bakery at 7:00 producing the most magnificent croissants and the aroma filled

the air. i looked at him and he looked at me and he said have you ever had those and i said they are wonderful. he said do you think i would like it and i said i'm sure you would. i went into the bakery and bought a whole bunch of croissants. the minute i a saw his face it just erupted. he loved it. and then i knew i had a terrific exclusive and i asked him questions about berlin. would he show up for the summit or insist on certain things. it was a terrific interview, it

was exclusive and cbs had that w night and that was my opening as a foreign correspondent and it was exciting. >> more questions have come in. coveringed the soviet government has been described as leaving signs by who appeared during official events. is that what you found, and how hard was it to get any kind of contexty within the government? >> extremely difficult unless it was set up in advance by somebody in the government who wanted to make you more sympathetic and maybe an effort to win you over completely but it was always their decision to reach out to you so you would

have an opportunity of talking to people in the government but that was rare and pretty well set up in advance. it's difficult for you to meet a government official on your own. when they lined up in my time in the 50s and 60s it was khrushchev and brezhnev and then as you went down from him in the picture to his right you knew he

was the second most important person in theun soviet union and that was kremlin all a g. you read pictures in newspapers, what was covered and what was not. that was kremlin and it was exciting and fun if you were to be a a successful journalist. when you are filing for whether it was on radio or cbs evening news on television did you ever have to write in some code in order to ensure messages in your stories would be received and understood the?

until april1 of 61 there were foreign correspondents so you would have to find a way of saying something that would convey reality and somehow get the words through to censor. i can give you one illustration that was very funny to me. the russians at one point wanted to turn and prove to the rest of the world that they were interested in disarmament and wanted to show that the red army was being disarmed. they took a group of reporters to a base outside of minsk and there was one small detachment of russian soldiers who raised their rifles in the air and threw them down on the ground

and shouted to peace and then he said you see we are interested in peace by giving up our weapons and a group of correspondents were taken for a ride today this time to minsk where they were told they were watching the armament of the red army. i was saying exactly what happened. they would pick up and know instantly what was going on but the sensor in russia didn't know that phrase so i was able to get

away with it and that was the test, the battle that you had every time you wanted to get something across. it was always what kind of phrase can you use that the american audience would understand. that was our daily challenge. another question tell us about your context with the dissidents particularly did you have a special affinity for them and how did you cover that issue? >> i would have had a special affinity but they became a story later in the 1970s. i was there in the 50s and 60s and returned but briefly may be for two or three days for

a story so i didn't have an opportunity to cover the other dissidents as well. people who were fed up with this oppressive communist system and have the guts to stand up and join others and express their discontent and approval of their political system, and they were called dissidents and a number of them who were jewish and wanted to go to israel tried to get out of the soviet union. most of the time they failed but when the russians wanted to make a point, they sent thousands to israel to make a diplomatic

point. it was making a diplomatic point so they got rid of those people they didn't like. a couple of then and now questions could you see the campaign as an extension of the propaganda you saw there are some follow-ups. was the audience different was it to make the rest of the world without america and now it seems to be designed to put us against ourselves. it's a very good question and the first part of the answer is the russians have been engaged in this kind of straight out propaganda from many decades

they are good at taking ideas and twisting them and then putting it out into circulation. what they are doing is using this old technique what's amazing to me is how could so many people in this country raised in the atmosphere of freedom how would it be that tens of the citizens bought into the russian propaganda system.

the tens of millions of americans are preparedo to accet a russian version of reality then they are to accept. it brings us back to journalism and of course within our country we've spent the better part of the last five years or so with journalists being called the enemy of the people. it was the title of the book that youou had published during the trump administration and it seems the role of the journalist today has become that much more important as well as perhaps dangerous talk about that. >> there's no question it is a

danger from a number but the president of the united states links the journalists to enemies of the state was he aware that expression was one of the favorite expressions of joseph stalin and theie soviet union ad mussolini in italy andte other words dictators and an american president using that kind of expression it is very

effectively and many again, tens of millions of american citizens believed him and that result right now is many people in this country, 60% of people in the republican party according to recent polls do not believe that joe biden won the election fairly. why would they believe that, because donald trump said so.

an interest so it's dangerous for the country and democracy it's dangerous for journalism and for the american people but i sincerely hope more and more will understand that there is a distinction between the free press and a press that is married to a particular point of view the past year has been a head spin her for all of us between the pandemic, the politics, the protest, the presidential election, the failed insurrection at the u.s. capitol and the security inauguration of president biden

and vicee president harris we found vaccines to combat the coronavirus and appear to be on the cusp of a recovery. based on your experiences including those articulated in these autobiographical volumes what is your view of the state of the democracy today i think our democracy today has demonstrated a fragility that perhaps many of us didn't quite appreciate as i said before, facts became weapons of war and

then that is accepted as true we are at a point now i find myself in absolute agreement when he describes the political atmosphere in the united states today is a war between democracy on the one side and authoritarianism on the other side. those are the words he used to define the state of american political life today in other words, democrats that can accept truth and authoritarians who believe they control truths and can impose. that is being fought right in front of us. anybody that picks up a newspaper and watches the news can see that it's right there.

what do they do with it? it's to a political point of view. it stares the american people right in the face today. in the hour we have together to end without offering you an opportunity to talk a little bit about some of the people that are so important in your life and who are critical players in your book, so if we can engage in a lightning round i would ask you to offer some thoughts about some very important people and let's start with madeline kalb. >> i can only say that i fell

for her at the moment i saw her and she remains beautiful in my eyes to this day. she has been with me all the way. my closest advisor. >> and your big brother. enormously influential in my life. i think more than anyone else in the direction of studies to pick up the language he thought all language is incredibly important. imagine how the advantages that you have as opposed to how they interpret that so the language

was essential. i didn't have an opportunity to know your parents but i did get to know your sister and at the first time we met 27 years ago, your father-in-law was living in your home and talk about your parents and madeleine's parents. a. >> my father was born in a small polish textile town. he was spycraft a taylor and came to this country in 1914. within a brief period of time he became a great fan of this country and ended up believing we could probably do no wrong

but he was given the opportunity and he never t forgot that. what did he do with the opportunities given? it was sort of a mixing of genders he was always the brightest, most sensible, most responsible and a terrific person to speak with authority

on that and also a fabulous cook. bill green was a stock analyst and had a marvelous sense of humor but died at the tender age of 96 and even as he went out he was cracking jokes. walter cronkite and bill small. cronkite was the greatest i worked with and he just sort of do and how to lead into the story and his kindness i thought

that cronkite was outstanding one of the toughest guys that i've ever had to deal with. he did more than any bigshot i know. he's the one that introduced leslie stolley and connie chung. >> there's a poetic irony in the books and you in so many ways became the legacy of cbs news. news. you were the last correspondent

and what turned out to be the final broadcast the year-end roundup of 1960 called years of crisis. he invited you to join and to carry on the work in journalism so you did and in fact the book begins and ends. have you felt this sense of irony being hand-picked and hand selected. from the current vantage point i will answer now because i'm able to look back at the time it was happening i knew he was special and for me was an idol.

or perhaps there ever was. at the time it was happening, i was not able to fully appreciate the impact that it would have on me and many thousands that have come along over the decades. you will bump into a journalist that knows about edward marrero and wants to be like edward

merrow but that is a hard thing to be. he said an extraordinary example of courage, professionalism, decency, fearlessness he had to say something he knew would offend the senator or president he said it because he believed it to be true. after he left and went to be the head of the usia invited me to join him to be his specialist on the communist affairs. i was obviously flattered that i had to say no to him and it broke my heart.

how could i say no to him, it was ridiculous. the only thing i could say to him is i wanted to do what you did for your entire career and he understood. >> and he applauded your decision. last question the pandemic has prompted so many of us to look back at our lives and an awareness of how fragile it is and look ahead to how we want to conduct ourselves and how we want to be as the fog begins to lift. give your thoughts as you look back and look around and look ahead in april of 21.

i have a grandson named aaron and a granddaughter named eloise. they are precious to me and they are the brightest kids and everybody knows that i would love for the country to be. i would like the good angels of america to and affect who would

represent the future of the country. this is the best example in my judgment in the midst of very difficult times in the fight between democracy and authoritarianism a for eloise ad aaron and all of their bodies because then we can sit back and say we did a good job. >> that will be the last word today and it's a good one. published by brookings press

assignment russia becoming a foreign correspondent in the crucible of a cold war. thank you so much for joining us today. thank you and the national press club. we are pleased to present you with our national press club coffee mug along with our hope that you will join us today in person in the near future you think this is just a community center? know, it's more than that. comcast is partnering to provide wi-fi so students from low income families get the tools they need. comcast along with of these television companies support

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