now. forty-eight hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. television for serious readers. here are some programs to look out for. tonight best-selling author john grisham discusses his work with the innocence project as well some of his writings on wrongful convictions. on our weekly author interview program "after words", former nypd commissioner bill wratten offers his thoughts on policing in america today. and tomorrow yale university professor elizabeth hinton discusses the history of police violence and social unrest in america. find schedule information online @booktv.org or consult your program guide. now, here is fatima shaik with a history of economy hall in new orleans which played a

vital role in the social and political lives of the city's black residents in the 19th and 20th century. >> my name is rachel and i am temporarily offering lobby service of the new center for history as we eagerly anticipate the opening of a brand-new branch this fall. it is my pleasure to introduce the event tonight. fatima shaik and jennifer egan on economy hall the hidden history of a free black brotherhood. i'm so excited to be given this honor in part due to the connection between the front of the brooklyn heights elaborate friends group and it is a robust group that supports the brooklyn heights library in so many ways. and i have had a connection with fatima if as a branch would be interested in supporting fatima in a virtual

book launch for economy hall. after discovering the story behind the book and seeing and reading the glowing review in the "new york times" i jumped at the opportunity to host a program sharing this monumental book. as the accolades and the publicity grew so did the importance of this program. and then fatima drew her friend jennifer egan onboard the brilliant author of manhattan beach and a visit from the goon squad. this is become a bpl prevents fatima shares of the world the free brotherhood, new orleans found 1836 the civil war with construction white terrorism and the birth of jazz. this nonfiction narrative needs to be shared. highlights voices that need to be heard and is a deeply personal story fatima herself as a new orleans native and a

descendent of the very community the brotherhood served. this book is a treasure. i am deeply excited about this conversation we are about to enjoy between fatima shaik and jennifer egan on economy halt the hidden history of a free black brotherhood. fatima, jennifer, please take it away. hello fatima. and hello everybody. thank you so much for being with this part-time incredibly excited to spread the word about this remarkable book which i've been talking with fatima about for some years now. which has surpassed my every expectation and being work of history that has enormous sweep so readable and fun i

thought move the best place to begin is really where you begin fatima in your introduction tells how this book came to be it really begins with the story with your father. streck sure thank you jennifer and thanks to everyone for being here might father found some journals in the trash and he brought them home and put them in the closet. i found them in the 1950s was already a writer this is something to write about and realized is important part of history. sterrett can you describe what are the journals and what is the organization that produce them? switch sure. the journals are the minutes of the meetings of the economy the autonomy society.

star 1836 since probably when i realized as i was reading the journals, but i realized after reading the journal this was probably the most influential and prosperous organization in the south either before or after the civil war. >> and what years did the journals cover? select the journals themselves cover from 1836 to 1935. the organization lasted at least until the 1950s because that is when the journals were getting. they cover more than a 100 year. there are some places and missing around the civil war is missing. the journal from 1842 there's a few gaps i was able to fill that out by doing some research. >> attacks by the factor father always pronounce it in the french way.

with a french accent. could you explain what this organization did and what its role was in the community that it served? >> that time it was basically a mutual aid society. it takes care of its members, their health if somebody gets sick they help pay for the doctor bills. they also buried people of somebody there take care of the burial. they became much more politically active and around the civil war they became very involved in what was going on the next of the united states and the world. to make you describe growing up in the 1950s in new orleans admits to a kind of erasure of your community's history in which you were told stories by people with various memories of the past or

stories they had heard about the past that somehow did not quite connect with the official histories. there's a beautiful quote from her book that i want to read. you said of the people who were telling these stories, each spoke of the past with the passion of a man wrongfully accused of a crime he repeats over over his account of the moment that proves his innocence. i love that. could you explain to us, what were these stories trying to prove, to use the analogy you give us. what was missing from the official histories? >> the history itself basically was missing. the history of a black community of any sort of community except basically the white supremacist narrative was pretty have to understand i went to segregated schools and in those schools we sort of knew what was going on our

elders would sit us down along and we really wanted to listen. and they would tell us about that friend that you just brought home is this person's grandchild. and did you know his grandfather did such and such and his great-grandfather did that. so we learned it like that. went to high school about the fourth class integrate a catholic high school i remember asking -- make distinct he acting a none i remember asking her, what about the black people? what did the black people do in new orleans right? and she said will nothing. so i had to write this. rick wanted this connects with something that was interesting to me ath distinction that you explained, two different definitions of creole that existed in new orleans as you were growing up.

can you talk about that? >> yes i can. they're probably hundreds of definitions depending on who you're talking to right? but in my time and you figure white supremacy rearing its ugly head post reconstruction. 1890s and onto my times the 1950s. what we would hear is creel meant white there's a quote in the book itself the daily newspaper wrote about, you hear about creel food but creel's are white creoles are not negros. that went against our understanding because my mother spoke french the people around me spoke french. one thing i would like to make clear was not aik color. sometimes people think if you are light skinned that means you're creel. dit really doesn't.

it means the old world and the new world met in louisiana and they blended into different things. it's to people of african descent like my people can be any range of color and they are creel, rarely are they white but there are white people who married europeans down the line her with a cold white creoles. we did not make that distinction in my neighborhood because we just felt it was the mixing of the old world and the new world he did not really matter to us. we were not really into race and color anyway. >> can you tell us a little bit about your own history and how you became born in new orleans but youou told me about it and it is a fun story. >> really complicated. my grand father came from india. probably one of the first indian succumb to the o united states in 1890s. he came to new orleans he

married a black creel woman. i say black creel woman she was a black woman who spoke french and was born in new orleans. she was the granddaughter i believe of an enslaved person. an enslaved person in louisiana who was purchased by her husband or i don't think you heard this part, she was purchased by her husband and then freed before she had children's all of her children were born free. that's different from the other side of my family who the great-grandmother of whom -- like my great mother headed children by herm owner also not for his children. they were born enslaved. they were enslaved until they were at least 20 years old. i remember asking my grandfather, who is your family? he said will who wants to know? he didn't want to tell a thing

about his family because a history of enslavement he was not really proud of it but his father was a slave. they all met down in new orleans. >> what you say perfectly mirrors what you describe about the community the economy was serving. which was in the 19th century to multiethnic. an incredibly inclusive. i was very struck by the factac the economy becomes jews, put out an offer to chinese who might want to join, i would love it if you could explain to those of us that do not know necessarily that much about the self, what did multiethnic mean in new orleans in the 19th century? spirit i don't they would use that terminology multiethnic really. people who had privileges because living in a segregated system.

there are places that were whites only and everyone who iser not white was nonwhite. you might call them colors but your nonwhite essentially. so the people came to the community it tell you the truth if you look at many black communities in the united states, you'll see nonwhite people go right into the black community. through the black community tends to be quite conclusive. so the south especially is verylu inclusive because people needed each other, they work together. and as i said they did not believe racism. we just didn't believe it as a premise and did not make any logical sense to us. stewart economy hall, your title consummate actual place. what if you could talk a little bit about that place and its history and also are

very eloquent your book about the importance of actually having a place to hold meetings. let's talk a little bit about the actual place at economy hall. >> so economy hall in 1836 the economy bought a peace of property a small house. in 185720 years later decided to build a grand hall. they had heard other organizations had hall so they said were going to build a huge hall. it's going to be across the street from original building hurt so built the hall in 1857 it became a center of the community. there were balls there they were for lamonica performances, there were theaters, opera, and then as a civil war approached it became increasingly political. that people come down talkn about suffrage, they met about blackman having to vote that

did voter registrationve drives. they became very important to the community. that community basically survived until my generation. my father when he discovered those journals on the back of the dump truck he discovered them because his friend was a member of the economy society. his friend was one of the last members and he said the hall had been sold and they were getting rid of everything that was in there. nobody wanted these books so they sent them to the dump. this sort of storytelling and connecting we know more than 100 years. >> so now let's talk about the physical documents. your father took them youou describe a beautifully and building a cupboard to put them in and staining it. very luckily having a house that was elevated enough that katrina for example did not fdamage these documents which

were already water damaged. you mentioned your father had to put them out in the sun and let them dry because they had gotten arraigned on this adulterer, which is have to say painful to think about. but then many years passed and you became a journalist and a fiction writer and a writer of children's books. talk about your return to these books that you really had not had a lot of deep contact with until then seems. >> i knew the books were there the whole time. because when i was i a child everybody said once the books got in the house don't touch and the two important your child do not touch this. i hid in the back of my mind and sometimes i come home and look in the cabinet and see that just seemed like it too much trouble. after i had been away for a long time though, seeing the way history wasth interpreted in

new this was there and wanted to read and see what was in them. when i saw the handwriting, just the handwriting alone nissan the video just the handwriting alone tells you these are people who are very educated. i was drawn actually to the person you saw his signature, i grew up there were my cousins cousins. i knew the name and then to find out that lutheran been a schoolteacher and had been involved in the cleveland bureau and all sorts of things, it was really, really fun to find out. >> one thing that was surprising to me to it see the beauty frankly of some of the excerpts from these documents. these are minutes of meetings. i'm just going to read one short g excerpt. love is a beautiful dream. the aspiration of the known to the unknown, the diving array,

ravaged by prometheus, god created the world only because he needed to love. i mean that is not what you expect to find in meeting minutes but we did find such things. so it striking that in a sense these are literary documents. you surprised by that? we surprised by what she found in them and by the hold they ended up taking over you in your own literary life? >> i was definitely surprised how literary they were. in a way though it made sense. because i knew my father and i knew my father's friends they were always encouraging each other. they are always telling each other you can do this you should do this. writing the book a little bit about he could not get a phd work and not for easily get a

phd in the united states so is to drive to from new orleans to candidate every summer so he could live in a place without segregation for a little while as one of his friends told him you don't need to stickre around here get out of the country for a little while. so when i found these guys writing these encouraging words these inspirational words to each other suppressing assault written but is not surprisingly did that. i had heard that same sort of language, not that language exactly but the spirit in my community in my life. >> what about the language of these documents? you mentioned a friend of yours described it as french american. what is theat language like? how is it different, just french or american english? >> it is not english until about 19206. the writing is entirely in

french until about 1912 and then it's broken french, broken english 19206 they go only to english. the way the french and press me i'm not a scholar not to put myself asy a scholar the way the french read in the sentences, the sentence construction was kind of like an english construction. or for example they started to get around americans which is around the time of the civil war, we call them americans are usually anglo-americans. when they got around the americans they started using words which i felt was just beautifulna. [inaudible] it just made perfect sense to me. slick i'm curious about the process of the enormous

undertaking of synthesizing wondered years of documentation into a historical work. and i guess i would just love to hear the timeline of how that occurred. simply reading these journals must have taken you quite a while. or were you in your life at that time? how did you fold this in? when did become a full-time project, take us through your interactions with them. >> you're making me laugh. because only now is it a full-time project. [laughter] full-time job. was about 20 years ago i started trying to read the journals. i'd basically go through the journals, put on the dates and try to summarize what i thought was going on. i came to something i could not understand because the french was too difficult and

involved there is a priest at st. peter's university who speaks something like 16 or 18 languages. i would ask them what does this mean? these journals were in french and what i had to understand was in spanish so he could read french and he could read spanish that took about five years. after i did that, i started seeing, sort of bezos going along with the names of my neighbors ice out family names , and the people that lived in the neighborhood. that made me a little bit closer to it. and then sometimes from really sort of spiritual thing would happen. for example there is a fellow who committed suicide. and he wrote a suicide note. i was in the library i did not

who this guy was. some but i know grammar school they hadn't seen in 30 years i saw her sitting or that microfilm machines message and who these people are, if you've heard of these people. customer she said that is my ancestor. and she did not know he had committed suicide. as the first time she'd seen a letter in his words. so that's i think okay maybe a better continue this. it took me about 20 years, had i known i was going to work on one book for 20 years maybe would've given it to somebody like you. [laughter] i don't think i would've worked about long was trying to be a published writer's identity children's book got a full-time job as a teacher, i did some short stories short periods of time.

that is the timeline for me. >> course you had a tremendous resource which was your own communityee who had been given you in a sense oral history components of the story, even went as a kid who did not always want to listen to them. so what degree did you reengage withee that community and the role of oral historian to try to fill out this picture? what were those experienceser like? >> that was probably some of the most fulfilling experiences. because some of these people were old. a friend of mine sort of married into my family cousins cousin, hit about 100 sultan someone else was a daughter was 80 years old and her mother had also danced at economy hall. her mother's friend met her husband at economy hall.

soon it got to talking to them their talk but the kind of music that was being played there. and their parents did not want them to go sometimes. really rich stories that was fun. >> to feel like it further enrich your own relationship to your community? >> oh, you sure, yes. if you know anybody from new orleans we don't ever really leave. we can live somewhere else we always have our spiritual world and new orleans. it gave me more people to know how i was connected. i found that my friend and i had been connected at least three l generations. she found out her parents who had mats, her parents and ancestors were both members of the economy hall in 1850.

that became much more fun to know. but guess i always carried new orleans aroundou with me, as you have probably seen. [laughter] >> it is so lucky you began the project when you did in the sense you caught a moment or more of this existed in living memory then i'm guessing does now. a lot of these stories are fading it so crucial to actually get the people and record them what they are still here and can still remember.ti >> p the four people i was talking about my friend's mother has passed her mother's friend has passed the 100 year old woman and her daughter have passed none of these people are still around. i was very lucky to talk to them. and i spoke to them kind of the second step i started seeing the names of people i knew i started reaching out to some of them to see whether i

could talk to her older families. this whole process wasn't luck for his luck my dad found the book. it was luck i was a writer and found something in theri books. it was luck i would bump into these people. there are stances in the book. [laughter] >> they are stances recorded in the minutes, how many meeting minutes include the presence of ghosts? [laughter] speeches phone to find out some of these historical events and then i would look in the sansone journal and there'd be a ghost talking about this real thing that happened. so i could quote the ghost it was great. [laughter] tobacco boy. so now i am curious about how

you, the fiction writer and journalist undertook the mammoth job of trying to synthesize and sort of crystallize this enormous amount of historyhi and material into a story. you make some bold choices. one of them you alluded to earlier, you choose to focus your gaze on one particular person. bogey would be the french nation. we can say it in english. >> he is a fascinating figure with an amazing history. if you could tell us about him and what it was about him that made you feel like he would be the gaze to lock in on for this story. >> firstly story there are

seven things going on. a hand to find a person to hang the story on and for it to move and not to be just a historical account. i am a fiction writer i wanted to move like a novel. and luckily lived from 1812 to 1892. he had a very long life to work with. his also present in summary things at a time when it's against the law for the enslaved to read he had a school. he taught someone who was enslaved on the side he was not supposed to. then he became part of the reconstructionon government. he was the grand marshall of the celebration. it was covered in new orleans was also covered by the "new york times". they didn't mention him but they mention the celebration can get a lot ofe color from that. he was very instrumental, i

talked about life as a poet peers friends were poet. he had beautiful handwriting every once in a while the minutes would say gave a spontaneous poem. [laughter] how can you resist? someone who stands up at a men's meeting and gives a spontaneous form. it was just wonderful. he was giving problems, he was politically active, and he named his children after writers. one child was inference walk, another was named homer, elvis kids, all his boys were named after writers. it was really fun to follow him. spin exit was a comfort combination of a sensibility

zone literary awareness, the fact he was present first so many important historical events and so deeply involved in the economy that made him the guy that could bring you all the rest. >> he was the go to guy. also when he took the minutes he was very precise about the way took the minutes. every time they went to something new they he would number them and then he gave us a content page so you could look at the content page and see what was going to come up in the minutes. that made it really easy very clear to read his minutes. and also facing a porton happened he would make underlines and exclamation points. or he would write capitol letters he was a really easy person to follow. he's one of these people is

not a president or a congressman he's just a person who lived in the community and descendents actually knew. >> host: it must feel as if you know him. and it feels like you know his personality, you know what mattered to him. he was sort of like a helpmate for you. >> guest: yes he was a lot of fun. in fact at one point, these are guys again arguments with each other and at certain points there's one point where one fellow did not agree with another when he saw on the street and he hit it with a cane and so the two men came to the meeting and they talked about this. once that i'm still bruised in the face because of your cane. [laughter] i am bruised because of your insult and your cane. and then writes it word for

word everything. at the end the other and says it is not my apologies and forced to give you it is my arms and he said they embrace so closer like one. [laughter] it was just beautiful beautiful writing. meka want to takeun this moment to say in the chat i believe links are appearing for this book. these are pretty amazing anecdotes and remarkableor tidbits. it is a very, very fun book to read i encourage all of you to buy it for yourself and your loved ones. >> guest: thank you. sue and so for sure he's a big part of what makes us books or readable. the other part is you fatima, you bring us into these moments with a full array of scene setting tools i think probably were honed in your

time as a fiction writer and journalist. you bring us census, clothing, smells, we really put us in the moment. it is tremendously compelling. i am wondering because you also have a gigantic quantity of footnotes. i know you were relying heavily on sources but also on your own imagination. what if you could talk to us a little bit about the craft challenge of deciding where to draw the line about what you were w willing to imagine and how you negotiated those questions? >> okay. there is imagination in the setting of a scene and choosing a scene. the scene itself is true. so we put this way. when i've had a meeting at economy hall 1863. there's talk about the vote for black men. it was november i looked up

the weather in november of 1863 on that date. i looked at the time of the sunset on some days. i was able to say i know it exists ample walked into that room who gave the speech. i note he has to walk into the room because he did not give the speech from outsidehe right customer i can say françois and i know the meeting began at 7:00 o'clock the sunset was at 6:00 o'clock, now i know it looks like right? i can say he walked into the economy all just about thee time was the sun was setting. the room was warm because everyone had the overcoats on and it was crowded. think a six hunter people is something i don't member how many people. it was hundreds of people figured hundreds of men packed in a room going to be sweaty and a moist and it is plaster walls.

so i can do that fact it's not imagination. it's not imagination in any of the words that are in their other words the people used the quotes are in the newspaper of the quotes that were in the journals, basically everything. the fact they had a fabulous editorld who would not let me get away with anything not a thing. [laughter] she asked me there's one street the economy is on scope ursuline street. she said when did it become a street? when was it an avenue was it an avenue in 18522 was hidden avenue in 1857. i found like five references three had different things. so we checked out everything everything that's in there we checked out thanks to kathie.

>> host: sounds like it's not so much is imagination but using your tools as a writer to connect effectual dots and ways that brings the sensory quality ofin t it to life and in the moment. >> writes.ig fiction itself is and i have to feel fiction that the kind of reader i am. i have to feel something going on. the way i take information fiction is through my senses. i have my five senses that's how i get it. so for me to it feel anything it's how everybody feels to their senses. for my reader to feel anything they have to know it smells like and how it tastes and what the sound is they arere hearing. then they are in the room. those are things i brought from fiction. also brought a little bit through journalism surging narrativeo journalism. if you want to read something else i've got some pieces and in these times that a very

sensuous in that way not sensuous as in sexy sensuous what it felt like after katrina and coming through the senses. mickey mentioned katrina now and i actually want to jump on and ask your question. i was surprised to hear you right in your book, in a sense the biggest disruption of this community thatom you are trackingng when back to early 1h century reallyoi was katrina. that is the events that really fractured the community in certain ways. that was shocking to me that in all those years in events of this century is the one that has been so disruptive. can you tell me a little bit about that? we met because most of these generations i'm talking about lived in the downtown areas ofut new orleans.

in the downtown areas of new orleans is where the levees broke so the flood came into our neighborhood. a lot of these people lost their homes. you figured the elders were in 70s, 80s, 90s at this time. so we lost that connection. there's one couple you were reading the the book that drowned in their house. we were very closely connected to the economy hall. most of our elders, we evacuated them. my cousin evacuatedy my dad took them out of town but then they're getting heart attacks and strokes they were out of their environment. i think the statistic was more than 80 people who were in new orleans at the time of katrina were born here. so it is a city where people just stay. they don't really leave. they don't really leave. the bad disruption of having all of this downtown neighborhoods flooded out, losing those elders,

that really did us in. when you also mentioned what has resulted with a number of people live in the city who have not returned. i believe is almost 100,000 price. guess almost 100,000 have not returned. well, you can read some on the website that i write about this. there the houses that flooded. it is very difficult, hear us just follow this whole white supremacy thing all the way down the road. we are in a redline neighborhood right? so how were going to get enough insurance to pay for houses. how we going to the money to rebuild our houses. people having all cancer problems likees that. who get the loans to come into the neighborhood? a lot of people with money especially from out of town.

a lot that we could not rebuild are being built back up by corporations that are building standard type housing for people with a lot of money who can come in and to hunter three under thousand dollars a house does not mean anything. but for people who bought the house for $5000 in the house now is worth $3000 and can't get a loan because they are retired it's disintegration of the community. the go to houston or the virtual atlanta those that listen the lifestyles better here i'll just stay here. >> feels like it is exactly what the economy was there to do, to try to hold the community together. to find a tangible way for people to help each other. it feels like that is we don't seem to have any more. that community does not seem

to have any more parts direct that communities having a very hard time. they are still people hold it together a little bit i have a lot of friends who still live here and there, get together and stuff. but we lost a lot. they were operating in a time of enslavement. part of their goal was to educate one another, to help one another and reach out those suffering and humanity were that's it they did they educate each other if they need to get a house built they were there and where t the friends do the job. in fact outsize on the house i'm sitting in right now, the new part of her house i can or member the day of the relatives and friends built back the house where they framed at the back of the house. cooked the guys came and framed up the house in half a day. the priest came and blessed the frame. i don't know if my folks paid for much ofuc anything.

there's a house to be built everybody wento on saturday over to their house. that is how this community was built. >> i am wondering how your community y has reacted to this remarkable contribution you have made to it, with synthesizes so much history? >> well they like me a little bit more. [laughter] what can i say? i think they like it i think they like it, everyone's thumbing through the index to see if they're in there. [laughter] see what it is so that it's of that personal. >> yes is a real person. [laughter] exactly. that is exactly what is going on. and then if they are not in the book, why am i not in the book? >> that is so funny. it is a measure of how

diffracted my own passes i cannot even imagine being part of a community like that. but that is really so telling and it's so human nature. we all want to be included. make sure our ancestors were given their proper due. [laughter] >> guest: exactly, exactly what i have to remind everybody, when you're looking at history this is something i learned you are not responsible for your ancestors. and you cannot take any benefits from your ancestors. [laughter] if your ancestors were terrible you don't want to a claim him then you don't have to either. [laughter] you have to make a choice here and do something for yourself do something on your own don't depend on your ancestors. >> so you're in new orleans right now? speech i am, i's am. spruance is this the house where you grow? speech of this is the house i grew up this is the house i grew up.

the pores were made dad dried the books out and this is house i come to. thwe were able because it did not flood we are able to get the house after katrina. i lost my dad though he had a heart attack after he evacuated but we were able to house.e this is very special to me to it paid the book is very manyal to me in different ways. when it special to be in your house with you. which is something we would not be able to do if it weren't for this virtual nature of our meetings. so there is a silver lining to actually present in the house so much of this took place. i feel like i'm seeing some questions coming in here. so i'm going to take a look at those. and we will hear from some of you. >> guest: ivo my my thing i like to talk about two.

phyllis get some questions first. subjugating a full bit and whenever youou want. was there a connection between the economy in there church? >> there was a connection. they were very attached to the catholic religion the very beginning because the catholic religion gave them amnesty the government wouldn't. for example the government did ve not recognize major marriages of the enslaved. or people of color. the catholics would get married in the church the church would recognize them. they were attached there for a while but after thete civil war when white supremacy -- after the civil war near the end of reconstruction when white supremacy took hold it also took hold of the church. the guys in the economy many of them broke away from the church started seeingm them go

more weird time but séances and going toward spiritualism. of the protestant religion. because this is a catholic church was segregated to a were not up for w that. so lots of them left then. >> a one comment, fatima, if you'd stay close to your computer. whenen you lean back some people having little trouble hearing. and then we have a question that i really love based on what you just said about the family connections direction of the family? [laughter] was yes he was in that book.

to suffrage for black men right? the constitution at that time in louisiana constitution when it first came back lincoln wanted the southern states back lincoln one of the southern states back to the united states as fast as possible. he did the solution louisiana came back. came back however without given the right to vote for black. so many blacks decide they're going to have the same constitution. the police came and they killed everything they could in that room. full of several other economy members. son was nine or ten years old. they stabbed the boy that shot out his eye almost killed when

his trying to come out of the building try to get out of the building grabbed the man in front of him and killed him is able to run away. kaplan made a statementy he said the floor was slippery with blood. things i wanted to mention everything we do is new is going on in economy hall that brought us down pretty familiar right now. legitimately elected officials

if you can learn something from this book, i do not want to be preachy but realize there is a playbook for white supremacy. it happened in the 1860s if you know the playbook you see the things are coming down the pike right now. you will know they start denigrating people take duly elected people you got something on going on. >> another question, how is economy hall related to plessy versus ferguson? >> the members of the economy theety probably one of first -- they were among the first. may be of the two black mutual aid societies plessy versus ferguson was in 1890.

there were many more, hundreds of mutual aid association by that time. many of them supported the plessy versus ferguson case. it was the president of the economy society. he was also a member of the citizens committee who were involved and taking the plessy case to court. so the economy and has in the minutes the president is saying he says it in french but i know many of you are in support of the y legislation very much against the jim crow law. plessy versus ferguson for those who doho not know was a case that is taken to the united states court separate but equal.

i wanted to ask one more question and then maybe we will end it fairly soon. i wondered if you could talk for a minute about music sell many of us associate new orleans with music with jazz in particular. you write a lot about music in the book. can you talk about the economy and its relationship to music over time? >> sure. if you go to new orleans jazz and heritage festival space on this particular hall. the economy has music all the way through for the philharmonic that opper that all these thing in the early years the last incarnation that was music in thehe economy hall was there. the same people used to come together and support each other, build houses and dedicate for the children, they were driven out those jobs the white supremacist

legislation plays music to make money. one of the places they played music was in economy hall. they would have a party they would raise money with the party they wouldld pay the musicians that way the money they raise will go to the poor people or to the nuns. and the money was circulating in the community that way. so if when you read the book you will see louis armstrong plate in economy hall and he was discovered in economy hall. the people came to the economy help of the first people to the outside new orleans. >> another question is did economy hall have members who were enslaved as well as free people of color? >> they did not they did not. well they did not. they're probably a little snooty number one. these people were millionaires.

i do not in new york society. the second thing anymore important thing is it was against the law. their slavery not undergone too long the free people would incite slaves, the enslaved to revolt smaller than the revolution. as a good good reason for them to be afraid. the police really did not want free people of color and the enslaved to mix. they'll go to jail and the police start attending their meetings in the 1850s. they did not do it. besides the social class think they would also go to jail everybody would go to jail.

>> fatima when this is done i urge you to look at the chat and recording we've got granddaughter, other people who know other people. it means more to you than it does to me. we are pre-much out of time. going to ask you one final question which is kind of a tough one. record this in part holding out a protective hand you can't shoot much higher than that. we live in a moment of such tremendous division and social tension and political strife. what can economy hall tells of anything what can this story tell us about how to improve our own situation and look

better? >> siu two will remove from economy hall? i was not expecting that question. i was thinkable reads something to the members in 1858. african blood that runs init her veins it is all of our crime. whether it's oppressed unjustly. : : : of paternity income out of the isolations that are pressers for they would like to see for us forever united, terry each other part having only hatred in our hearts for one another. so i think if we can say what we are to do we should not have hatred in our heart for one another and we should join together to try to fight the oppressive. >> host: hear! hear!. i think that is an >> that is an excellent note to end on. it has been a pleasure to talk with you.

i'm excited to continue the conversation. thank you for joining us and please, i urge you to buy this book. thank you so much. i hope you have enjoyed this conversation as much as i have. if you haven't had the honor of being a to read this book, economy hall, i urge you to, it is a treasure. thank you so much and hope you have a wonderful night. >> here's a look at the publishing industry news. best-selling author was more will be running as a democratic candidate for governor of maryland. he is also the former ceo of the robin hood foundation which addresses poverty in new york

city. scholastic books president and ceo dick robinson died at the age of 84. mister robinson led the children's book publisher since the mid-1970s, his father, maurice robinson, founded the publisher in 1920. during the tenure at scholastic he oversaw the publication of numerous best-selling books including the harry potter series. in other news and pd book stands reports book sales were up 11.5%, for the week ending may 20 ninth and award-winning novelist philip roth's personal library is on display at the newark public library in new jersey, the novelist donated 7000 books marked with personal notes or music, visitors can make an appointment to view the collection in person by visiting the newark library's website. booktv will bring new programs and publishing news, you can watch all our past programs anytime on our website, booktv.org.

>> next, booktv's monthly "in depth" program with max hastings. max hastings's many books include the recently published operation pedestal about one of the fiercest pedestals of world war ii.