>> i'm an adult services librarian at the new haven library. before we begin at the to thank by department for your support and especially the supervisor seth godfrey and my programming partner isaac who is doing tech support for us today. as well as tina thing on my public service administrator for her constant support. today we are joined by two incredible authors and activists

jenara nerenberg and melodyib moezzi. jenara nerenberg is a journal as producer and speaker and author of the book that we are here for today which is "divergent mind" thriving in a world that wasn't designed for you. a special guest host today melody moezzi an activist attorney in her faster and award-winning author and she's also has written a series of timely titles. her latest book you should pick up. that's a good one. to her new viewers if you have questions during today's discussion feel free to enter them in the chat and you can also put them in a q&a button at the bottom of your screen to ensure that they don't get lost in the fold. if you're watching us on the

livestream on facebook today you can comment with your questions and we'll try to get them answered as well and without further ado melody i will let you take it away. >> of course i muted. thank you so much for having us. i'm so excited to be here to talk about this amazing book is "divergent mind" thriving in a world that wasn't designed for you. i'm a person is thriving in a world that wasn't designed for me. when i saw this book and i learned about this book it screamed out to me. i have bipolar disorder and in america. that's when his bookok came outn the middle of all of that during the pandemic and i want to start off by saying how are you'd

doing is someone who wrote a book during a pandemic. howell did that go for you? >> i'm so glad to be here talking with you in chatting with you and thank you to you in the library for having us. i'm doing okay. now we are kind of sort of emerging out of the whole pandemic thing. we still have a ways to go obviously but it's been an interesting year and for many people the year was mixed this quiet solitude which was a very interesting time for many of us. i'm glad that the book reached so many readers and today we are celebrating the paperback and it's out in hardcover a year ago in march which was bizarre timing but the book is making its way out and i'm so glad. >> me too. the work that you do on the

diversity project that something i want to start off with. those who may be interested in him may be knowledgeable and interested in what you are doing. if you could tell us a little bit about the project and how the readers can look at that as well. >> thanks for asking. american diversity project started about four years ago first in california and it was sort of the annexes of personal and professional. i'm a journalist and i was figure out what was going on with me and my mental makeup. i started getting together to talk about narrow diversity and started inviting authors and in shared research from different perspectives and the crew. we had a conference and now we

are doing a lot on instagram and for anyone who wants to follow along and last year at the start of the pandemic before the incident with george floyd i sat down with my family and i grew up in an inter-racial family a very multiracial setting like my neighborhood and my school and i was like you know i think this is an interesting sort of nexus and inter-racial life love and friendship that doesn't get examined much. i reached out with other writers and said should we talk about this? we are doing this on instagram as well. ..

check out both of those works. instagram is a place right now. >> thank you. we spoke a little bit before and preparation of talking about media representations around disability and health conditions do you see that changing? if so, who is leading that change and how do you see it getting better? >> i am so intrigued by this topic. how mental illness, more broadly how it is portrayed in the media

i think you see this with many different groups. marginalized groups. what happens is there are stereotypes in the public imagination that has to do with social norms. you see them depicted on screen and sort of this constant conversation between what is happening on the ground and what is happening a in the media. mental illness disability is no exception. i have been digging into this, film close-ups tend to be much emore intent on characters that have mental illness, people that are depicted as mentally ill are way more likely to be depicted as violent. much more than actual occurrence

in real life. i think it is something we need to work against. your work is such an amazing contribution to all of this. i did not get into that too much in the book. a little bit at the end with resources and such. the book is all about refraining our conceptions of what it means to be mentally different. autism or adhd or bipolar, how can we take ownership of that narrative again and ultimately change a public conversation. >> yeah. i initially read the book on kindle. i have 61 highlights. there was justice really present

moment where you talk about the overhaul. with a number of people experiencing loneliness on the rise, more people become ill. figuring out people social lives doctors are getting burned out. the cycle goes on. open up share and connect with each other, nothing will change. you go on and talk about connection. you did not know this was coming out. having read it during that initially i found it really i comforting as a reminder that it is spiritual and it is spiritually connect did. i read that so much of that was

in here. we are healthier the more connected we are. having been so disconnected for so long, how you see that evolving. >> you mean how we are going to emerge from the pandemic? >> and some ways they have been good at this. in terms of, you know, being familiar with the kind of connection that may be do not have that kind of make up. not quite so familiar with being that disconnected. we are living in a world that was not built for us in structured for us. in some ways i found personally that it was not as hard on me as it may have been on more typical people. for me it was like, yeah, i'm

alone. i have been here. nice to meet you. not my first rodeo on this. there are lessons that people have been able to teach for those going through the epidemic i know you have had such a great response system. now that the paperback is out, you have heard from people like me. i think that it came out in the perfect moment. it needed to come out. it helped a lot of people that were thrown into this loneliness andd disconnect goodness. they had no control over that. >> such interesting points that you are making. a lot of people are finding the book because maybe they read

articles or they have seen other research about how women are being left out and a lot of research regarding diversity. it is interesting, i do not know if the pandemic is allowing more people to dive in because i think like you are saying, so many of us live this way anyways and are sort of outside all the time. i am always thinking. that is kind of normal for me. maybe people who are not are finding much more understanding about their family members, their colleagues, their kids.

i hear from a lot of people that are saying tears streaming down their faces because in hind sight they realize maybe that there parent is no longer alive. to be able to put a name to that in terms of how we will emerge from this whole pandemic time, i mean, i do really hope that all of uss are able to take some of the lessons and things that we have learned around what it means to live more quiet or not be rushing around in this aggressive state all the time. many people -- actually, i wrote something in the book. i really could not believe how much it captured this moment.

i will paraphrase what i wrote. something like i look forward to the day when what is considered, let me grab it really quick. obviously, we did not anticipate this happening in the context of a pandemic. you know, in a way that they would one day quiet down. i look forward to the day when what is currently a hidden sensory world for many people becomes a global norm. whatme are labeled as sensory ailments actually hold promise for traumatized worlds that is in desperate need of repair. so, yeah, i was meditating about

these topics for the last several years, like many of us. in a way that the pandemic did force this quieting down, not quite the way that we wanted it all. perhaps it has people thinking. >> yeah. yeah. at the beginning of the book you know what the concept was like. this really drew me in really quickly. you talk about how knowing -- this is a quote directly from the book, how do they know that they make up 20% because they are concepts of normal disorder. perhaps we are really talking about humanity. given that so many go undiagnosed we may be looking at an entirely different concept of

what it means to be human. that different concept, you are speaking forou so many people. understanding that different concept. what doors does that open for people? who have been shut out before, you know what i mean. >> yeah. i have been thinking about this a lot lately. i think that it is interesting because the d deeper that you gt into research or talking with these people and interviewing them, i don't know if it is just me because that is my world and i just see everything through that lens, that color, it actually becomes more difficult to see -- to be honest. the more that you talk to people and people open up with you and

kind of take off their mask and remove all of those layers, you start realizing some of these things are very universal. i think that that is important for people to know. the reason why we do not currently see the world and that way is because they are closed off. closed off about their mental health or emotional health or challenges. needing to see the doctor for something. we just do not see it in our culture. would we be at a point where we would not even need this kind of terminology of normal or abnormal. i do not believe that that is the direction that we are in. a lot of us are in some ways, we

are kind of in the early helm way of thinking. inthere is a part of the book where you note that finally being able to be liberating. once i embrace my identifications, truly embrace them i got my family, friends and colleagues on board, i almost did not need them anymore we all adjusted. now i have a thriving life melt downs and all. it is this idea that embracing is exactly what my experience has been to find the labels incredibly liberating at birth. i am wondering what that progression has been like for you. we write a bit about it in the

book for sure. you are providing a different outlet for other people. not through just your own experience but the incredible research that you do to put this together. based on your ability to hyperfocus. i am so grateful for your ability to hyperfocus. not just easily digestible, but entertaining. i am curious about this idea of labels and how much liberating and what does it stop being liberating and when is it no longer necessary and how that is good for you and how it has been in terms of how readers have responded. >> thank you so much for finding that the red. it is so cool to find out how it resonates for you. i tend to describe this as the labels are entry points. they are entry ways.

they are entry ways to empowerment, liberation, knowledge. kejust being informed to. the real of this knowledge of information. for me i find that so appealing to grab something and say, okay, i've got it and then you just kind of absorb it. for many people who are discovering aspects of themselves, jumping in on some of the activism and neuro- diversity movement, something that is very exciting. it is really important work. once it gets integrated into your life, your family and your work and your identity, you know, you just don't, it is just something that does not even

need to be said as much because it is just a part of you. people know it. integration. it is not to say that those things aren't important. i think everyone has their own journey with this. i do encourage people to do what works for them. i think that some people continue on. they find a new line of work around this particular label or diagnosis. for other people it just gets integrated. they just continue living their lives and they have a different perspective and a different shift. that is how they see themselves. for me personally, it was a journey of learning about neuro- diversity, thinking about this kind of approach and philosophy for a while. i did not have the word for it.

and then learning about how women were left out of the research on autism and adhd. and then, you know, really focusing on this act to betty and how it -- no matter what your label or diagnosis was. in the book i talk about creative sentences getting crossed. and then there was a process about opening up about all of this to my family and people that i worked with. certainly, the book coming out was very healing and kind of like a relief. i am releasing this to the world. now it has been a year and i think it is awesome seeing how people responded. everybody has a different story and entryway to the book. for themselves or their parents or a sibling.

i hear a lot of therapists who are saying it is impacting their practice and they recommended to their clients which is really exciting because we want to see change in the therapeutics industry. and then, yeah, it has also allowed me to kind of move on to other things. i am a journalist and we have the project going. no t matter what i do in my life and professionally, the neuro- diversity work is such a huge part. it just gets integrated into what i do next. i think that that is exciting for people to know. everyone watching and listening. in your own life you will have different periods of discovery and integration. that is okay, too. it is okay as part of your

larger story. you will not leave it behind. something keeps sticking to this >> that label and later on. in terms of somebody like you that has written about it. once you write about it, you are public. no one can out you. you are already out owning it. helping other people. we do not share the same diagnosis. i am so grateful for what you did. this is the best book that i read all of 2020. it was. i am so grateful to you for it. it was not just that book. it was every other book that i

read because of the book. joyful. i love that book. other books that you site and the otherth writers, often women who have written really important work. you dig into that research and away that is much easier for me to get a broad sense of what is happening within this movement that i have been in for so long yet have never seen a book like this.o that is partly why am so grateful forik it. the chat is blowing up. what are some ways neuro- divergent people can engage with medication practices and body awareness practice while in -- i recall you naming that a lot of traditional internal awareness are not very accessible to neuro- divergent folks. >> that is a great question.

so, yeah. i do not focus on meditation a lot in the book. honestly, in my own life, i am a movement person. i think that you are, too. the type of meditation i've been drawn to t are more like tai chi wnand i love to dance and run. for me, all of that is far more appealing than just planting myself and sitting. i hear this all the time from other people that that is straight up mind does not work for them. i do not know how to totally answer the question. i would encourage people to not feel like they have to stay inside a box of what they think meditation is supposed to be. we know that so many mainstream things do not work for us. so, yeah, that is what i would

say. >> that is a great answer. for me, hula hooping is my meditation. i am not sticking still for sure psych professionals and parents tend to tell me i am wrong when i speak about my own autistic experience because they learned at a different way or the research says something else. how would you suggest responding in those ways. all the research in the world does not match a person's experience. it sometimes feels like myself advocacy falls under care. >> that makes a lot of sense and i hear that all the time. again, i think we are kind of in the beginning of a lot of this. especially in terms of representations of women and girls. and, so, this is why i think it

is important to take the narrative into your own hands for one. the second t thing is i do not believe that formal diagnosis is necessary or even important, to be honest. if we are working with a medical industry that is based on research, literally 30 years old, it takes 20-30 years for the research to get integrated into practice, how can you let those people tell you, you know, who you are or who you aren't. i think that that is huge. you will find many people out there that are self identified. as i write in the book i did not go the formal diagnostic route because of what i am talking about. you know. with that being said, for some people it is hugely important. you need it for accommodations in the classroom. it really depends on your particular individual situation.

yeah, we are just at the beginning. just know that there are so many people out there like us. >> great answer. another question for both of us. what helps you integrate your label? do you have recommendations for supporting someone that is beginning the process of integrating different aspects of neuro- divergent. you want to go first. >> what help me was people saying -- there was a moment where told my husband, you can leave. if i could leave me right now, i would leave me. him being able to see us crazy from day one, it's not a new development, now you have a label for it, but you are not a fedifferent person. that was one of the things that was most helpful for me. >> yeah. yeah. that is interesting. what helped me integrate it.

, it is a fragile process. in the beginning for me, a lot of -- i remember the day that research was popping up in my facebook feed, of all places about how women were being left out in the autism community. i read these things and this captured me to a t. how come i'd never heard of this. there were those moments of oh my gosh. and then, you know, just being a very curious person, being a journalist, then you have that right of, okay, let me dive into this. i need to learn more and more and more. there is sort of that initial period of discovery. like i said, it is gradual. i think that i took it one step at a time. absorbing information and then slowly opening up to family and

friends. and then getting more serious about it. for me, that is how the book was born. divergent mind totally came out of this whole process of discovery. and then you just get more and more comfortable. as you are more open, like we saying a few minutes ago, it just becomes integrated into your life. the more that you can stay grounded in your own knowledge of who you are and, you know, present that to the world and to people around you then it will just naturally get integrated. >> yeah. there is a question here from adrian who says the accommodations at work. the same applies for students at school as well. educating our doctors on what it is really like. i am not like one page on their

textbooks. far more complex than what they read in their textbooks, for instance. >> i think accommodations are interesting topic. in the book i focus on the topic of work a lot because i think that it is just such an important agency. you are in the world and you are interacting with other people. akhow you take care of yourself and your family. at verizon now, everyone should look her up, in the book, we talked about things, you know, the usual things like where to sit in the office and things like that. i think, more importantly, the communication that happens. making sure that your boss and

colleagues, like understand you and where you can just kind of share what you need or what you cannot do. that, to me, seems like a really important piece. then you will feel able to be yourself and to ask for what you need. youou know, another thing i tald about the book and elsewhere is the importance of acceptance. when people who are autistic or neuro- divergent feel really accepted both by themselves and the people around them their levels of depression and anxiety go way down. that also means that you will be able to just do your work better. your feelings better. i think that that communications piece is really important. i would love to see schools, universities and work laces have really introductory neuro- diversity training for everyone. i do not think that it requires

that much. people just need to be educated in the information needs to be atout there. i definitely recommend that. some places are doing that with the bigger companies. but it needs to be more commonplace. >> i think more of us in different industries, the better that becomes. i provide accommodations for all my students. they don't want to go to the disability resource center and say this is my disability. i think that they find that other professors are willing to provide accommodations. they do not necessarily need to go that legal specific route to get those accommodations. there is another question here. what is your vision for support for their neuro- diverse community? >> well, i mean, so, word

treatment is a little tricky. we doo not want to get into -- f we are talking about, you know, practices that support well-being, that is a great conversation to have. in terms of the evolution of where that is all going, i interviewed a lot of therapist for the book. so, you know, here in california, she is great. you know, she make sure that there are no, there is no food in the office, for example. people senses are not getting overwhelmed. she keeps all the lights very low. she make sure that the fan and ventilation are not too loud. and then she also keeps soft materials. she is very attentive to what feels therapeutic.

again, for an adult which is really important. a lot of the conversation is about kids. .... .... conversations and withe practitioners that see that adult population. i feel that neuro- divergent people so they have to put something together. and that helps us to feel grounded and begin for me i've spent a lot of time in nature. emma is going on walks and hikes and certainly a classic therapist can be helpful but again a therapist is not informed around sensory stuff

and there are going to be limitations. and then i'm intrigued by some of the somatic practitioners out there but again i feel like a lot of somatic practitioners don't know that much about the whole perspective and something i'm extremely cautious about that i want everyone to know is that there is an element in a dramatic world where people want to relate everything to trauma and theyg just want to say you were having this because of x and this needs to be looked at. i really disagree with that and i think that's and there's kind of her assistants and some of that therapeutic community because they've been trained really only through the lens of trauma so i think that's

dangerous. i really do. i want to caution people, if you encounter that and that's a bit extremism that something you want to push against an in the book "divergent mind" i start off by looking at the history of psychiatry in the history of psychology and all of the errors that were made when people did become so much fundamentalist and wanting to put everything on one aspect and that's the kind of thing we really want to get away from. it's also why i feel so strongly that individuals can again put together their own narrative or pieces that they truly find helpful and not just submit to one thing. i hope this makes sense. >> it does make sense. when you say this you are

creating a narrative yourself in a sense you throughout the book being like some benefit from cognitive haverhill therapy and you maybe not so much. you actually research the stuff that is pathologists and the things we do to learn about ourselves and sometimes doctors they don't google it but i think google is the best place or read a book. this book was so therapeutic to me and i think people can forget that. it's therapeutic to you in terms of being a writer. was this part of finding the nrda for yourself as well? >> i think so. i was just talking with nate silverman the other day who is the author of mirra tribes and we were talking about my journey and i was saying how writing this book was kind of like an investigative journey.

this was my chance to die then sell it very much was a simultaneous process of like okay i'm on this journey of discovery. i'm going to figure out what i need to know and what's empowering for me and what is it, what is the story that i need to reclaim and having all of this information helps everyone else out there who's on the same journey because there are so many of us out there. so that's what came out is this personal story and yeah a real hope for other people to find their own journey. spent if i could just jump in and this is a question for both of you. aside from -- do you have any other recommendations of books that people can breed that are up-to-date and reflect more

accurately the experience of being narrow divergent and like a psychological textbook or something that scientific? >> melody do have a few in mind? >> you can go to our twitter feed and you'll find a list that we have put together. but we put together a really solid list. >> thank you melody. it's true. on twitter i often shout out other books and i put together a list and a lot of people are really appreciate it. these are books that came out in 2020 alone that were biden authors in different fields and that's what we love to see. we want information around

psychology but there's a academic on their and there's virtual-reality expert on their. if you want to see neurodiversity integrated into the world. in terms of my recommendation on top of what i've shared on twitter you now actually think think -- he wrote the book doing harm had her book is all about gender bias in medicine and that focuses on autoimmune issues but it's just a really important book and then i always recommend nick walker. andd nick has done a lot of log pieces actually around neurodiverse technology and perspective within psychology and then i always recommend

neurotribe and i do lists several in this book as well. so yeah. >> thanks rory. should we go to the other questions? there are a bunch more and there won't need enough time to go through all of them but can you take some rory. >> i'm always muted. you can take one to start it i will look through them. >> they are is one here about labels and however it feels like i'm becoming more of a target. doesn't help that my psychiatrist is increasing drugs is a quote fix. >> they are that's very

interesting and i don't have all the information to know exactly what it means and i don't know if you are talking about workplace bullying or someone using a personin is escape goat which is. so yeah i mean if you are able to tie different psychiatrist that can make all the difference and again unfortunately there's a lot of disinformation and it's not as integrated and it can be helpful to do your own research and a lot of medical papers are available on line and i know people who who literally have to do that. they can actually also be helpful to literally take "divergent mind" with you to your therapist or psychiatrist office which i've heard of people doing.

you can be like hey lakhdar's research behind all of this and you need to know what this is about. so that's a hard and intriguing question to answer without having all of the information but check out different psychiatrist of possible in the terms of the work lace question bringing a book to work. >> they have a list where you can put in different psychiatrist and they talk about big pharma. this is the person asking about drugs. there's a great question about whether you are offering training sessions or if you have a group that you would recommend in terms of your own diversity training. >> yeah. there are different kinds of narrow diversity training so it depends on th specifics.

i certainly will give talks and do events like this and i've offered a few classes in the past. and it really depends that people can reach me. my web site is divergent lids.com and i have contact their. i heard from someone this morning who wants me to share some perspective on an academic conference which is really exciting. i would love for this information to be all the penetrate different fields so yeah feel free to reach out to my web site. >> marie mcdaniel his ear question right there. i just pasted the median -- i was her friend too and i just pasted it into the text.

>> beaux-arts anonymous at one is melody and jenara any chance of making a work up to go along with their studies and will you be publishing a pdf of resources for your audio book? >> i will answer that. the audio book is available. i haven't thought about the theme. the research section appears with that and it appears in the e-book so that's a great easy option and you can download it on kindle and apple books and google books. so all the resources are kind of out there. it's just a matter s of finding the right format. and we are publishing a work

book to go along with it. it's kind of an interesting mix. it's journalistic and investigative but it's also very practical and has a lot of things that you can integrate. i think for "divergent mind" it's kind of on its own. what about you melody? >> for my latest book called the -- but i'm putting it in farsi. it we are translating it into farsi. the book in farsi will be up on my web site shortly. i would love to piece something together. i would love for you to do those trainings and those trainings in my no you are conferences all the time and my dream is for you to go to every university and

listenve to the training. these are official trainings that i've been to and is like a white guy giving me diversity training. who does that? i feel like the people doing the training frequently hits one thing to be well-versed in something it's another thing to identify as that thing whether it's razor neurodiversity and i just can't buy and if it's from that community. to me for "divergent mind" they came through that you've lived it. you'd just integrate so much material into one ultimately short book and to get that all in one place. you just don't have that perspective of recognizing it.

it's something you figured out later and there is legitimate anger around that like why is it part of this. there is not the space in order to be like oh may be a look at the world differently. maybe that's a gift and i can figure out how to navigate the world. i saw you doing that over and over again and that's what made this book so special among other things but you're coming from that perspective not just from the outside. >> thank you. and representation is huge and that's also a writing issue. i'd love to see more neurodiversion creators.

i want to see hollywood and the media and film and you see our stories and why that's really important. >> you guys said earlier you are staying a little later with us. in case maybe we can get to a couple more questions. >> yeah, yeah we can take a few more. melody are you okay with that? >> i also want to say what melody just said and i totally agree and we talked about this before it went live but i really love this book. it's one of my favorite books of all time now. i've never felt so understood understood and soot knowledged in so validated. if the forehead the sense that i'm alone and i'm cracking up now which so n often happens. he read these books and they are written by professionals in the

field but don't have the experience, they w just have the academic that ground and is so different hearing from another woman diagnosed who knows what this is like. when you are neurodivergent and you don't know that you are neurodivergent there's a tendency to feel very lost and very misunderstood and you don't understand what's going on so i'm glad you wrote this book and you frame it in such a way that we can acknowledge that it's not a deficiency. it isso a gift. that's something. i was diagnosed autistic at 31 and i have a hard time accepting it at first because everything i read sort of implied that it was some kind of the deficit and now i'm very proud of my autism. i'm so glad you wrote this book

so hopefully other women with have experienced don't have a hard time except thing things and realize it makes them more beautiful.he >> thank you rory for sharing that. it's so important and i'm so glad to hear that that resonated so much. >> i have a question here from anonymous. have you heard about the autism fund-raiser with jimmy kimmel and mark rover and celebrities. it's blowing up on twitter. it's an organization like autism speaks and is it problematic? so many neurodivergent affinities seem to have a lot of controversy and problems and those are sure to -- typically the most vulnerable ones. you have advice in which organizationsat are important fr

neurodivergent versus perpetuated stereotypes? >> i mean the question said it tents to happen a lot like a cause will be taken up and then it gets a little controversial on who is at the helm of this cause a fund-raising effort or organization or a film so again it goes back to what melody and i were talking about. representation is so huge and i think people in the wider world need to take that really seriously. so i don't have a specific recommendation around certain organizations or anything like that. i have seen a little bit of this on twitter recently but again i think it speaks to needing to shift the conversation as much

as possible to putting these kinds of efforts into the hands of people who have lived the experience and i think that's going to take time. the twitter community and the neurodivergent community is very good at being vocal and really expressing the issues well and so yeah i think a lot about this kind of thing in terms of history and looking at how things like eventually come together and get integrated into the world and it does start with these individual actions and collective actions and so i think we are going to be reaching a turning point. it's been really exciting. melody and i've recently and a lot of other neurodivergent writers a and creators and

filmmakers and producers. it's going to keep sort of pushing where more of us get to kind of help design these things. i would encourage everyone to keep going. >> i was going to go into another. you write a bunch about masking and i was interested in the unconscious reactions to patriarchy and the happens to neurodivergent or not. i think it happens all the time llespecially with women. i wondered how much farther out you can take that. >> yeah i think that's a great question. for everyone watching and listening masking is this term

used a lot in neurodivergent communities where what does a person have to do in order to kind of get on in the world and what kind of things do we have to hide to kind of the pier normal and it can really take a toll on someone after a while and that pressure just builds up and a lot of people end up falling apart or melting down and shutting down and many of us just reach a point where we are like i'm not going to do this anymore. it's not working for me. and i totally agree. i think it's something i put in the afterward of "divergent mind" just the way but we call neuronormal and where they intersect them what we think of

as normal is often dictated by whiteness and so this proper detached not real energy and in the way of interacting with people and there are many different words for this but i find it really important really critical to connect those two. i feel like collectively our country is reconciling with this and then we have the sub pockets like this neurodiversity community also target about this so there's a synergy of like hey what is this? why do we expect people to behave or act a certain way and who decides what's normal and not normal and what is behind that and white supremacy. i think that's a really good

conversation i'm excited for that to be out there more. and again i'm really excited to see where we go at this and i think artists are going to be really important is process. the more creative people integrate these kinds of perspectives in their work in films, media and exhibits and even mike social media aspects. the more they get unpacked the sooner they world dissolve. >> shiloh had a question i'm not sure a filmmaker of you'll be able to answer this one but she says i love your book and i totally agree with you and talk

about media representation. i know so many neurodivergent individuals have beautiful ideas around a better future for -- and an idea for a sitcom that is pro neurodiversity to collaborate with the development script. >> that's a great question. thank you for asking it. i am actually thinking about this a lot. i have aut friend who -- friends who are mostly friends of color who are collaborating within hollywood to change media representation. we have been in conversation around how do you -- something like neurodivergent representations about something

i'm actively thinking about and i'm excited to follow up on. i think it will be a gradual process. it's getting to know the industry better and learning like shiloh was saying binding people where we can all put our skills together and put our heads together about what w we would look like. where we haven't a debater or in hollywood to talk about a pipeline basically like pipeline creators and how do we make that pathway easier for people to go from story ideas to a writer's room on set. so for people who are watching or listening to really reach out at that something you have to experience in thisex industry there something i'm thinking about a lot and for anyone who's ready to jump in right now

there's always fellowships and incubators. they are some extremely competitive and usually you have to know someone or submit a recommendation. that can be a little tricky. so we will see. we will see if we can build something. >> i want to be respectful of your time. if you can stay a little later maybe one more question i will let jenara picked out we can rap -- wrap it up. no pressure. >> i'm not particularly interested in -- your book halts

me your book helped me in my neurodiversion. i have a great work set up so what should i do to figure out my narrow -- neurodiversion. >> a great question. i think the question is what do you need to do and is there anything to do? it really depends on the individual and his someone just speaking to be better understood to be seen or to kind of have a name and a label for your own self-knowledge and there's a lot out there. there is my book which helps with all of that because it gives you a lot of information you can share stories. or are you looking for a certain

kind of therapeutic approach for health and your life. certain people turn to a certain therapist or even meditation. again i really encouraged every individual to do what's rightca for them.ve it sounds like there is something that the questioner is seeking some may be making a clear about what you are seeking. do you need help with something and do you need the right therapist or practitioner for that legs are you wanting more knowledge for yourself? it really depends. again i think "divergent mind" is great for this kind of reader like someone who wants to just figure stuff out and doesn't need to have an exact medical thing. we are challenging that notion in looking at that.

thank you for all the questions and thank you melody and rory. this is really great. >> i'm professor of management at the ucla anderson school of management and faculty director