>> here are some programs to look out for this weekend on book tv. tonight on her author interview program, "after words", and eight former senior divisor in the biden administration such as full republican senate leader about the u.s. response to the coronavirus pandemic. then myrna matthew spalding executive director of president trump's 1776 commission and peter would take a critical look at the 6019 project looks examines the foundations of america's beginning. gina becker former chief of staff to george hwb is recalls the 41st presidents post- presidential life. find full schedule information online book tv on or consult your program. guide. >> welcome officially to skeptical inquirer for this is a series of live online

presentations from experts who are devoted advancing the science over pseudoscience, media literacy over conspiracy theories, and of course critical thinking over magicalri thinking. my name is liana lord and i am cato lighted to be your host. i am a standup comedian and author. i'm also a cause for the point c of inquiry podcast. if you're so inclined you can find more about me and my work at very funnyun lady.com. before we get going, i've a couple reminders for you. the coronavirus resource center continues relating reliable lose news/coronavirus yesterday they shared a peace of the "new york times" about how epidemiologists are carefully returning too everyday life, that is a good sign for there's a peace debunking three covid 19 conspiracy theories. there's also an interesting peace from nature about how

the world failed to curb covid. now, if you have not already i would think you would be wellr served to round out your reading list bycr subscribing to skeptical inquirer magazine. thereto is to do that for there's the digital and print version. and bonus, the print subscription also gives you access to the digital version. you can get either or both at skeptical inquirer.org. and now if you are new here, here's the deal for the flow of the evening is easy per unit to keep doing whatever you're doing because we can't see you. i will introduce our guests, they will razzle and dazzle. after which will open it upp for your questions. at the bottom of your screen you'll see the silk una icon. that's a place for you to type t your questions in the form of a question. if you miss any of the talk tonight it is being recorded and will be available at skeptical inquirer.org.

and now this is so much fun. off we go for our guests as a reporter and author of sixor books including the near times bestseller the fatal gift of beauty, the italian trials of amanda knox, she most recently covered america under the former president as eight national politics correspondent at newsweek. her writing has appeared, i almost a sailor has and it appeared? but she will get hurt just desserts here. she has appeared on rolling stones, the new y yorker, times, the "new yorke times" magazine, slate and bustle. she has appeared on many tv shows including real time with bill maher, "good morningor america", and cable letters msnbc, npr. she teaches in very lucky students it nyu journalism institute. her work has been cited in hundreds, i said hundreds of scholarlyy articles. here to talk with us about her latest book virus :

vaccinations, the cdc, and the hijacking of america's response to the pandemic. please welcome nina burleigh. nina please feel free to take it away and share with us. >> thank you for that f wonderfull introduction. i am super honored tom be here and to be asked to address my object fellow skeptics put a big fan of csi i've spoken to them about two other books. i a was very thrilled to be asked to come here tonight. so thank you very much for the introduction. and i guess where i'm going to start with is why this book? people a are questioning -- and a bite friends and colleagues, why did you do this? were you writing this the entire time? did you start in march of

2020? the answer is no protection did not start writing it until i got a call from a publisher around thanksgiving. and he said hey, i want someone to write a 50000 word book and book world that is short, 50000 word book on the race to the vaccine. you know, i am intrigued. obviously i'd been paying attention to this like everyone else. i'll do it fort you if you let me due to other things. one is, allow me to it i do not want to say vent but it is kind of a vent. allow me to it explain and remind people what happened apwith the cdc and the former guys administration and the handling of this crisis.

allow me to it do that. in the second thing i want to do is talk about the conspiracy theories that this virus spawned. in the allegiance to those conspiracy theories in this country and why that was. what they are and why people attach themselves to them. so he said yes. well yes go right ahead. so basically what this is, it's a story about what just happened to us in a political sense but in a social sense. and it is a story about science and the triumph of science in this era of rampant

scorner for expertise and attachment to conspiracy theories and diy kind of science or pseudoscience. so to start off with, i'm just going to tell, made a little powerpoint or little slideshow for you so we can have some pictures to look at the demo book cover and my face. i hope they entertain you well be go through this. as i said the goal was first, what of my goals was to remind people what happens. what happens, what is going on in the former administration when the virus and landed on our shores. and why was it that it march and april 2020 i had to leave new york, those who could

laugh. i had a place outside the city. why was it we couldn't get on top of it have been warned in january? as leanne mentioned they cover the former administration for five years. and i've covered politics on and off american politics on an offer long time. i am very aware of the political power poles, the foundation of the former administration. and i watched in march and april is am sure everyone here did, in horror as we saw therety is not going to be any activity from the government in terms of helping the states there throwing it to the states in this universe of competition. and also just the images of april those images those

horrible images you would normally be seeing after a suit nominee where you had four quilts moving bodies into refrigerator trucks because there is nowhere to keep them. in the trenches that were being dug in the field in the bronx during that horrible month. i am not one of the people thought this was accidental, i never thought that. i was seething as i sat there on the w countryside watching what was happening to new york city and then to the rest of the country. so first thing i want to do is explain to you what i think is going on. you built will remembering some of these pictures. but i want to refresh your memory. i have to say i had an assistant working with you because stanford microbiology

phd student who, when she started the project she was merely there to talk to about the science and help me understand the vaccines and the genetic science. but i asked her to make me a timeline of events. she almost immediately sent me an e-mail and said oh my god, i feel like i'm being pelted with wtf all over again. that's actually why we need to remember this. because it happened so fast, we were all in a panic we've never had anything talk to us with the society before in our generation for it all get to the generational thing in a minute. we were not able, all of us to understand what was going on. i started my book off at the explaining was happening at the cdc and the former guy and his administration. the explanation i have for this as there were two poles

to the power of that administration. one of them was the wristlet just zealots the white evangelical who got this man into office with votes, and they are the first pillar. here is every business with this picture is, having hands laid on pretending like he's thinking about god. these people gotten him into office. he absently needed to payay them back. had he pay them back? he paid them back by putting them in charge of the public health. agencies. so you had a czar at hhs price before him. alex a czar is an evangelical

christian. he was the sponsor lease the white house cabinet prayerib meetings that were bible study meetings that wereet held weekly dever knows about pence obviously. he was put in charge of the covid plan. but i did not understand when all this was happening, maybe so if you do understand but i did not know it, is this red filled usingva evangelical christian so is birx. redfield and birx are actually medics unlike went from said write the w numbers low they're trying to figure out -- we were all trying to figure was going out the testing. redfield is an evangelical

christian, birx is an even juggle christian these people cut 13 writing aids. they alarmed themselves with the moralizing anti-om homophobic aids a fight. not birx actually did work pro bono. they have done good things in the aids world. supernatural power was in charge of things but to the former guy wanted pretty wanted to pay back these evangelical christians by putting these people in charge of public health. what is it mimi put someone like pence in charge of public health or a czar? hhs is the former guy came in they turned their attention to fighting abortion, making sure the abortion was put back in for the hhs website had a

button at the front page people could go to call the religious liberty complaint a button. you could click on and they would help you if you did not want to sell contraceptives or serve transgender people or do medical things involving gaze. when the virus landed, there i was on moral issues, not potential virus coming in. and so those people were they were in charge. puts redfield in charge of the cdc on the state march 6 the former guy and a czar were blathering on about anybody can get millions of people are

going to get tested. and of course anybody else in the world who wants to get tested especially in new york knew they couldn't get a test for the could not get a test in urban areas. that is the image i want to move on. the other pillar of the trump administration was these extreme fatcats, the extreme free marketeers. the extreme ideology, represented to some extent by jared kushner. but not solely him. i've said there are many other people involved in this anti- government low tax, leave us alone, do not regulate us group of ideologues. those people aligned with the

evangelicals. and that of course was the basis for the power and the t political power that the former administration had. what did they want from this pandemic? what happened? what happened was the trump administration started immediately cutting deals with favored groups. put kushner in charge of operation air bridge which was district there bringing ppe in on government airplanes. they were letting private companies sell them and were letting private companies set the prices. they refused they wanted

competition. they wanted states to competes. trump literally said in a phone call with g the governors this is where these people, they wanted to make they looked at it as an opportunity to prove the government was not needed. private industry can handleva it. and be to rich certain people. try to get these no-bid contracts i don't think it has been fully't explored. and i don't think it will be fully explored. because the one sixth insurrection has taken out of efforts to investigate what happened here. so equally antiscience in

their own ways. evangelicals of course we know why their antiscience. the free marketeers, the hard-core antigovernment ideologues are antiscience in wthe sense they don't want anybody telling them what to do antigovernment means they are obsessed with the concept we have this event we stand by twitter but we still call for free market and religious zealots. now i want to move on to even

though really relate because this administration to mishandle, massively mishandled the pandemic early on. there is a really, really good t story to be told here about this vaccine. it is a story about science today the cdc is saying you do not have to wear masks indoors if you are vaccinated. we are crossing a line it is sall thanks to efforts with layers and layers that have been done over the years and it is leaps ahead. i want to talk a little bit about the race to the vaccine. and what it is, what happened

here. i assume some of these are scientificif, do not know how muche you know about the history of vaccine, but the first vaccine >> to infectious diseases. 2 and if only 250 years ago or so and beginnings of any way to fight back. so weaker version of smallpox. it was a cartoon from the late h century when the brits were starting to get these vaccines work that comes from county because that is what they were

doing. they're taking this scraping little pieces of it into people's skin and then would become immune to the smallpox which was devastating at this time. many people then as now's as a cartoon about how the returning after they'd had these vaccines. that is the beginning of vaccines for 250 years vaccines have advancement with had many, many more vaccines were based on a class a form that is not really changed dead virus, injected and it

creates antibiotics. and whatever doesn't chili it makes you stronger kind off concept. there was of course in many, many accidents along the way, which i lead to in the book. in this accidents and mistakes led to especially the polio issue in the 1950s there is a terrible accident on factory air and children werean in fact injected with live virus but again tuna 50 years of a weekend virus and then along t comes the covid, the nacoronavirus. and an entirely new has been invented. probably nothing you ever read about other newspapers. this is inai the "new york times" was been explained so many times were not going to go deeply into it except to

say it's an absolute milestone. it's going to change the way we fight these viruses going forward. it is not a miracle, but it is an amazing, amazing testament toward the advances especially in the last 20 years in genetics. and so, let's see here. i know what i want to tell you. the success of the mrna of the vaccine it's really due to one thing the former administration did right, is tthey threw tons of money at the big pharma companies and said, figure it out. make the serum. if it works will pay if it doesn't work we will pay you. and they lifted some of thehe litigation problems that could

arise. and that provoked the platform had been known to science for a while. that provoked that platform from sitting in on a shelf to being tested and clinical trials rapidly so weid now have this record timeframe of literally stranded three days after the chinese sent over the genetic map of thena covid. i'm now 11 months later the putting in people's arms and it works. normally, clinical trials can take ten -- 15 years before the fda will approve things. they did this right. the tremendous implications

going forward. this is the triumph of science even in this era of expertise and data manipulation we will talk about. they did not there is much money at therapeutics. but what happened? they did throw enough money at them so they had certain cocktails. i have a section we will call cocktail hour. because who got the cocktails? well, the former guy here he is whipping his mask off right after he came out of the hospital having been given the drug cocktail. ben carson got the cocktail, chris christie got the cocktail, rudy giuliani got the cocktail. all of these men who were in

the age group and the obesity level in this case, that was really, really vulnerable to be killed by the k virus. and so we watched that play out in the summer. meanwhile there were people in that and hadn't started pre-how many people were in the hospital hallways, gasping their last breath? how much money would they have paid that kind of access? that is how it played out. we know that. this is just tot remind you that some people got the cocktail hour and some did not. you know, i want to give you a little deviation here. i went for english literature. when the pandemic started i

had to go straight to my old bookshelf and pulled down the daniel defoe's a play gear. i scanned through a lot in those first couple of weeks. it is remarkable how little our response to this kind of people have changed. he has written about this book is about the late 17th century plague epidemic. and everything except for the fact there is now a cure for a vaccine and they did not have a vaccine, everything is the same. houses of entertainment close, people were locked down but also what crazy and fled their

locked down home so it crazy in the streets is been an explosion of conspiracy, the idea that may be a comment had predicted this or people went to astrologers. people started going to quacks entering quack medicine and like hitting a toad to the caller was supposed to ward off the plague. they were utterly helpless. even up to two and 50 years ago the human species only had astrologers to explain what was going on. magical thinking was the way. we have not changed a bit.

even though science has moved us forward and we have the vaccine we knew what that was right away and amazing genetic images what this thing even looked like. you cannot turn on the tv or look at a newspaper without seeing the great spiked approaching. and so everybody knew about the science. but what came along was an understanding. we could explain what this was and hopefully the vaccine would work follow the recommendation of fauci? note fauci should be beheadedul according to steve bannon. instead people started to attach themselves to these notions the experience of this

conspiracy theory explosion this things work in ohio documentary on fracking started meeting people who time at bill gates to reduce the human population by 80% because the elitess understand the world cannot continue what it is without this much humanity on. here this over and over again in the backwoods of ohio to do a listing of all of the conspiracy theories that are

really allowed live and kicking the great reset is this davos slogan. run to figure out wealth and equality and be more green. the slug and those immediately picked up and taken as much more sinister. i never watch foxes i happen to turn on last night and laura and graham was on. literally said the great reset. she was talk about how brussels is controlling american. whoever made them up is still using them, i think the brits

-- make the british government talk about this summer they are sort of tone deaf. no good ideas, the davos folks they don't understand. this is how it looks to the conspiracy minded. that is why the conspiracies. the other is there are many, many unified they throw in a lot of things so everybody knows you got bill gates you've got the illuminati, got i didn't is there actual tax on 5g and then eve got the actor, i'm blanking out his name right now, woody harrelson jumped on 5g, this is why her getting sick. we have kind of an awesome ability to spread these things obviously through the internet. but also the gullibility and

the fact people will prefer to believe those things over what 5g is talking about. part of it is the echo we have thee region guess he lost his job over this. for long time there calling it a hoax. so it became impossible to keep denying it. think you will still find people say it's not as bad as the flu or just as bad as he flew nothing worse. echoow thanks to the chamber here. this is where we are at as a society. half of the sort many, many people believe there's a big lie about the election. these kind of stories about what we know is going on. the conclusion i'm came to about white people are so

willing to resist the science and what we arece told about what is going on has to do actually with the success of the science. the success of vaccine. in 1900 the life span the average american the average lifespan was 48 and 49. that's our great grandparents generation.e never board in 2019 you can expect to live to be 79 or 80 or born in america. why are people living so much longer?? why is it number change not necessarily people are living longer. one of the reasons it has changed so dramatically is that we have vaccines for these diseases that used to kill children in huge numbers. if you were born in 1900 or

say 1920 you would not have gotten probably to adulthood without having witnessed a sibling die or have a very traumatic infectious disease the names of which we cannot even pronounce we do not even know what they are because our children never had these things. we do not know what they are. we do not know it feels like to watch our children die before our very eyes or to be fotraumatized for life by the memory of horrible diseases. we don't understand that we don't have that anymore. being that we are spoiled in some ways by the success, the very success of it fairly significant section of parents not a majority in a significant number of parents who will refuse to take these

vaccines until at the children take them. and i think in some ways the very success of the vaccination and medical science has created a spoiled dui i generation that just thanks fauci thanks we should take that of the vaccine mrna vaccine might mess with my genetics. you can find anything on the internet. people look on the internet and say think i will trust that before i trust the experts. the math issue everybody knows how that played out. again the administration does not necessarily get full blame for what happened with the masks because the debbie wade show and the doctors were early on saying you don't really need the mask.

and then you did need the mask and then they changed course. the facts it was not clear in the beginning gave a lot of feminization to this notion we don't really need the mask. as everybody remembers, the mask and i definitely sought i was in pennsylvania and ohio traveling last summer the mass became like a biting sign. everything was politicized including the cdc numbers. we now not read phil was with or at least not trying to stop them from getting involved with the political people at the very end when it mattered so much to them what the that these numbers looked low. this report now that can be up to 900,000.

and even birx admits, it was not necessary, it did not havee to be that way. we are a sophisticated society. we have medical care here but again the public health agency public health itself is not something that's ever been a priority in this country. military spending, discretionary budget usually 40 -- 60% of the discretionary budget going to the military. three to 6% of the american discretionary budget over the 6 last 60 years is gone the public health. and what actually did we defend it from in 2020? not the chinese, not the russians, not isis. you know what we need tout be defended from lastly i'm just going to say one of the things i thought a lot about was how would we

deal with the future viruses were told there be many more viruses are saying it can happen at any time. obsolete we are more prepared with the platform that needs a rapidly ramped up. we don't forget this pandemic out leaders. but last week know this week came up with some recommendation the fan crystal shortcoming in the global response they have recommended the w.h.o. be more active, more proactive and involved in shutting down travel. being as equipped to investigate early on what kind of virus may be causing

epidemics in certain areas they can head off an epidemic. and that will be a big change if everyone came together behind that w.h.o. is that there's an organization on this planet this going to address a species white ascents like this one we will trust them. but again i have to say my sense is that at least a very large segment of americans, not the majority probably but many are really enamored of this face with bureaucrat and nasomeone and brussels saying last night telling us what to do. it remains to be seen what kind of lessons we can take from them. and with that i think i will let you ask me some questions, i've got a little bit over myot time but not too much i've got about 20 more minutes i i think. >> no, you are great on time. and thank you so much for that

good presentation. we can stop screen sharing whenever you would like. i apologize it took me a second to pop back in here. i was checking in with bill gates because you know, he is infatuated with my every move now that is getting divorced. [laughter] there are so many thingsy you mentioned and i look at the questions, he reminded me of the great reset.at i remembered when i thought that was turning my iphone on and off. because meat disconnecting from the matrix is a huge deal for me. i read reading your book youdi talked about one of the cures, what people thought would help them in the pandemic was pinning a toad to their collar, right? i laughed that mike wait a minute my going get two-for-one t? if i kiss it is the prince's out how they sold it?

probably not. [laughter] that's what's popped into my head. we got some really, really cool questions. i will say he would be well served to grab this book. when i tell you i started read t this about to be honest i don't read a lot i do audiobooks. i sat and read it and 50 pages flew by. there moments it was funny to see some of your cut to the bone phrases. this does not hit the best-seller list i think we need to d reevaluate it this whole bestseller thing. you went to the timeline it was almost triggering michael omy gosh, that is what happened. we lived through that that is a thing. a

i'm glad you opened with that because i don't think we should forget the way you wrote about we sort of forgot in our collective historical memory about the spanish flu. how that just, were not going to talk about that. that did not happen. that has some repercussions were caught flat-footed here. we cannot afford to forget. as you said, as you are wrapping up with got moreai stuff coming. we have to keep these lessons and be prepared so thank you, thank you, thank you for this work you are doing. we do have some great questions. first feel like we've been doing it so long as almost a family affair. cases and thank you for the first question, susan says hello to me and you, nina. she's actually interested if you have any quick comments but what's currently going on in the middle east as you have lived and worked there as a journalist covering the settlements for another stop we talked about at all tonight

's susan jumped in with that question. >> i know she's asthma that she knows my book on holy business is about the fake relic trade. in the use of relics and archaeology to make land claims in israel by the nationalist the religious nationalists. when i was there, i've not been there for many years. at that time they always were they had it protected him religious right. at that time it did not seemed like it was going to end well, i would not have expected it to last this long actually. i also know these issues are inflamed by political leaders sthere regularly. we did have showing up there

and that started that's a very timely kind of conflict the right in israel. >> thank you for being so willing to talk off cuff on that. i appreciate. victor wants to know, while this could be a whole separate discussion what are the red flags you see for future pandemics? >> the prime of this one as you mentioned, thereas are no we don't tend to look back at these times of events we are facing because of climate,

just manned activity our species involving ourselves with other animals, we are facing these morphing viruses all the time. we are a linked species or link than we ever have been, physically but also that to me the internet has allowed us for the first time to recognize this is a species wide event in real-time everyone around the world is experiencing the same exact thing. we are all vulnerable and exactly the samewe way. i think that maybe that would t

kind of lead to a kind of collective response next time. the former administration rejecting any interaction with these international bodies. including the w.h.o. that is by we did not get the test early on. they scorned it. anyway victor some good flags and some not so good back indeed thank you. this leads me to it two of sue's questions. do we have a workbook and place to prevent a future pandemic? i don't know if we can prevent one as opposed to can we manage better? i don't know if we can preventnt it. back or to your points, i don't know that we can prevent.

there were workbook spray there was a pandemic agreement they dispensed with. there i was on contraception, abortion, mild stuff not there might be this unbelievably unexpected to them events for the people who have written the pandemic playbook i think it was called under the obama years, it actually had been paying attention to it. they did this was a possibility.ty there is a playbook. oothere is a playbook for what to do and they were not following it. w there were not following itow they were not even fcommunicating with the pandemic preparedness expert to a resource they could've been working with from the beginning. they just ignore them. then those people were noteo recognizing what was going on. did not know who to contact in the administration to pick up d the phone and coheres what you

need ton do. >> there is no calling sink press of one for proper pandemic response. press two for the vaccine will be out, there is noneop of that, oh my gosh. chuck from canada wants to know, was this fiasco a former guy think? i am with you i don't say his name i refuse. i was calling him he who must not be names, but that is an insult to harry potter fans everywhere. [laughter] was this fiasco alaska thing? or what it have a different republican president maybe handled this? >> guest: i know there are people who are saying, even right now that this was something that probably would have been mishandled the matter what. w we just did not have -- we don't have our act together as a government. we do not know how to work as a government in concert policymakers are, i don't

agree with that at all. if you had a leader is that i believe in science, put thet mask on. or a leader who said fema is going to be the sole purchaser. we are going to get all of thisin stuff. they did not do any of it. they did not do any of it. they just let it roll. and cynically i believe they probably just looked i at actuarial tables and thought we could probably lose a bunch of people. that's another thing i didn't get into. it's new genic and effect for what they did. you had the cocktail for white fat rich guys. and you had nothing for the brown poor people who are gasping for air by the millions around the world. by the hundreds of thousands of people in this country who lived in circumstances where they did not have the money to even go to the hospital the

medical system you could have a whole conversation about the healthcare system and why people did not want to go to the hospital because they know, they're uninsured they go to the hospitalw the going to get hit with massive bills. that was one thing you could have done in the government and they did actually pray they did say they're not supposed to be charging people but the hospitals were not telling people that they wanted their money the "new york times" once said theyntk were still suing people. anyway that's off the >>. one 100% i would one 100%. 80% is on the former guy and those people who i described to you as the pillars of his power. so back there certain problems with the system here, especially with the public health system. as you can see everybody's getting vaccinated right now. that is because they put everything behind it. he put the power of the u.s. government behind it. the biden administration came in said we are doing a this.

and they're succeeding and i don't think they wanted to do t that. they chose not to do that because they did not want people to see the government can be a force forot good. right. i like you, i'm a nativee. new yorker and former epicenter of the epicenter. just sitting here watching the daily press briefings going i think really making the statesht fight for this like it is thunderdome are you serious? it is unbelievable. like the government did understand his own power chose not to do p it. this leads to the question right off of what we're talking about for the cdc messed up testing and why? were they unprepared way before the last guy? i know you talk about this in your book. it used to be the gold standard. they were it. >> it didn't mess it up. look, they turn down the early test models from the w.h.o.

that were working. they did not get on the stick about it. and once they did they mess them up. they could have asked the fda to do a workaround. they could have used some of those tests apparently but they didn't. they did not jump. they did jump when the former guy thought hydroxyquinoline was a good idea for they did emergency author of that for they did not 20 workarounds for the publico health agencies they were trying to use commercialse products. why? i like the numbers low we know that part he likes the numbers low, he said it. it's as if he had tourette's syndrome he said that pray there's no debate he did not want the people to be tested. so yes the cdc screwed up on their invention. there were workarounds they did not get involved with them. >> thank you, thank you.

eddie, hey eddie, good to see you out there. once tohe note jeff any thoughts on how the coronavirus actually came into existence? suspect that is a good question. you know, i interviewed david wellman who is the stanford microbiologist. he is one of the people who thanks it is possible that the wuhan batch experiments are the source. not that this was totally rigged but things happens and labs. this conversation about that is not something to have the former guys running the show. among these experts, think the

jury is still out. what i believe iss we can't rule that out the way the debbie way joe team did when they went over there the borough do not want to have this conversation if you're a biologist in the wuhan lab, how do you have that conversation knowing people died if this was an accident. but furthermore there are labs all over the world and they would have to change their way of doing things pretty think they're not motivated to doir that. i think you cannot rule that out. the jury is still out. honestly could have jumped from an animal to a another animal, to us. they just haven't figured out what that intermediary was. long story short, i am open to the lab idea.

and i don't think it's a conspiracy theory. >> okay, rush with several question many questions but othank you guys i love this audience are very smart, thoughtful, great listeners great questioners. t that's when i can read the smallest type here in the q&a box. that is a biden question. you get the former guy from nicolle wallace? or is it the other way round? >> i just started seeing it on twitter and i thought biden said it first. >> thought biden said the former guy. but anyway, whoever set it great. >> thank you for sure. what's to note should be shut out travelers from india? i don't know how to answer that.

i believe, i think it's a good idea. the debbie weight show again the recommendation this week were about the w.h.o. should have the ability to say stop flying out of that country right now. don't leave. i think there is discussion about whether that was not such a a good thing.f if you had to lock everybody into their country and lockdown. i personally think it's probably a good idea to kind of isolate again you taking in the body. that is why we need to have these vaccines. the really good questiono is, should there be no ip and should every country in the world have access to these amazing new vaccines? there's a problem they have to be frozen and need third world

country or developing countries are notot going to have the ability to keep these things cold as they should be. anyway, the long answers i don't know whether this should be locking them in but i certainly don't think it's a good idea to becoming and delivering a lotg of people into the center of new york city. >> host: writes, five minutes for my house by the way, jfk airport. so no. carl has a question going to partially answer it because i have something to offer. give an answer that's great. carl wants to know your advice for dealing with the business partner and their passionate decision to remain on vaccinated even p though we are in the business of bringingcc people together in his singing workshops. thank you for your great work. i will offer to carl the speaker we had a couple of minutes ago wrote a book

called chance and, really wonderful thoughtful step-by-step advice about how to talk to these folks and it's understanding overnights. : : i don't. what i tell people, and i have friends who are crunchy organic projecting my dna or it not natural if my responses look, you don't even understand what it means if you have someone

projected for your own children. you can understand like, you can't even imagine what they've done for you because youyo are living in a world benefited by that. you're lucky kind of spoiled so that's how i address that given those facts. of course i've had discussions with my friends, people i know people have long or weird reactions to the second and i did, i've had friends going pretty i bad and repent discussions, you really don't know what was have done to us in ten years. maybe we are all going to have attracted something for our bodies will have reacted oddly but i feele confident that that is not what you think based on

what i understand having talked to a lot of people about this vaccine i think it's amazing. sthe actual virus in some ways, the concept anyway. >> thank you for that andr i kw we are at the top of the hour but i i do want to get to at let one more question if you don't mind it one i have, you mentionedd this in the book and your presentation is almost b frightening in a way thank you for this. he said it seems humanity has not come very far. it appears many americans are trapped at the top, do you agree? reaction to this isn't any different than london when you said you were reading that book.

like your where these people, why are we not better? >> i am having a psychologist or whatever, whatever area of study it is that looks into how are reactions to things that happen are affected by our species history, things that happen to us that don't happen anymore but i have to think that there is an instinct for us to again, magical thinking things are back to fair like primal and we can't do anything about it, your compass, you do start praying or i don't know, according to your astrologer, that's going on all the time. it's like asking why do people

still have religion? why are we still looking to tie in the sky for help? >> and you know, i live, one more fromus college. >> i'm here. >> okay, me too. right after this is my personal cocktail hour. >> i love that it's cocktail day, by the way. i'm in chicago was only 7:00 o'clock here, while over cocktail hour late cocktail hour or so passed away. >> right, i won't go too much but there's a great couple of questions. you expect us to have annual vaccinations recovered 19, 20, 21? thirty-seven, height, bingo, whatever it is? >> were certainly going to have to take a booster shot we talk

about all the time from where were you have to a take a boostr shot because the virus is inside the body, the more people who have a more it's mutating in the mutation becomes immune or their evolving, there are millions, creating something new. yes, we are going to have to get shots like the flu, i guess. it's not going to be eradicated. the predictions were in the beginning, and probably still sanctus, at some time it will be like a cold, it won't be telling us, causing massive immune reactions that kill people but we are a ways from texas yes, whether be covered 20? i don't know. hopefully they are not going to come annually.

only entering a new world with the because activities on the planet, we are moving toward electric cars and fossil fuels and things there are just so many of us so you. >> are so many of us i'm single. can somebody figure that out for me? what are we doing? [laughter]au i really want to thank you for sharing your time and expertise and writing such a wonderful piece. virus comes out next week and i think would be well served to add it toel your reading list ad everyone in the audience if you miss anything, it will be available tomorrow and my thanks to you.

our producer,he mark and of coue to you, the audience for spending your time with us. my name is leah. thank you. >> look at the best-selling nonfiction books according powell's book in portland, oregon. topping the list is finding the mother tree. susan fox of the internet activists between trees. followed by robin my suggestion that we should work with government shape the land we live on that, robert wrote, profile of the galvin family which consisted of 12 children, half of whom were diagnosed with schizophrenia. next is why we are polarized found into america's political divide. wrapping up a look at the best-selling nonfiction books

according to portland, oil, memo, thought it was. most of these authors appeared tv and watch programs anytime booktv.org. during effortful event surviving institute in washington d.c., amanda ripley discussed the importance of having to fight conflict resolution. >> four years ago i felt like as a journalist i have to do something different. i felt it so easy as a journalist to just make political conflicts worse even if you didn't think i different something tentative from most don't get from a carefree work and felt like understand what was going on in the country a problem so i spent a lot of time study all the time. personal, political, professional, at scale the study

of conflict as a system particularly intractable conflict to me everything else into place. there's a lot of forces that got us where we are such that as an overlay suddenly made everything make sense in a distorted kind of way so the question became all right can we learn from people have been through conflict and got to a better place? followed a handful of people including a politician in california, former gang leader in chicago, environmental activists in england, regular frustrated democrats in the city and regular frustrated republicans in rural michigan buccal was to see how did they get from high conflict was just this unpleasant toxic destructive conflict conflict? the problem is conflict. it can feel that way the kind of

conflict and almost people did make cap journey incredibly encouraging but having her second book is really about half they did that are more about the same if we want to be washed thrice on mtv.org. cap amanda ripley for the title of her book high conflict in the search box at the top of the page. ♪♪ you. ♪♪ ♪♪

next booktv james argues interesting learn from these examples. examining why people make that decision later, never looking at innovation leadership find more information at book divide up for court reporter had. >> out of the global south education experts here, there friday night it schools the government ngos and charities officials deny exist, why do they deny it? because the very existing high cost, cap government support can't get good education for their children but they can and they do. this is what we will expand