first time in my career i felt the obligation to write a book, i just felt like this is our duty to do something more. >> to watch the rest of this program, booktv.org and click on the "afterwards" tab to find this and all previous episodes. >> hi, thank you for joining us this evening. i am caitlin, the event coordinator for madison books. in the chat i posted where you can order it will make you to facebook imagine forward. we are super excited to be hosting this evening launch of the book, it's going to be a great conversation. if you have any questions brittany asked the question box down below so i to introduce our moderator for the evening. advisor senior government official and fortune 500 business leaders. strategic planning, risk

management and innovation policy as it pertains to the security and protection. his client defense and intelligence critical infrastructure and entertainment and hospitality industries rely on him to help push strategic thinking and position them to capitalize on emerging opportunity. regularly present executive audiences on the future of security, critical infrastructure and risk building adaptive leadership models and developing innovative culture. with that, i'll give it over to you. >> thank you and i'm going to turn it quickly to our panel start by introducing the director and advisor major conservationist, storyteller marketer and innovation champion e-mail vice chair as well as chief marketing and promotional, president of integrated media at

nbc universal director at nike trustee at national geographic society partner in crime real impact so you for joining us. >> thank you, nice to be here. >> let me introduce you although i could probably produce a lot of ways, i had the pleasure of working 15 years now but the career stands more than three years in 1999, one of the founding members of his economist consulting firms, a lifeline runner, she started government and corporate leaders challenged by these ideas for a secure future and with that, i'm excited because i have a hard copy of the book and i know what a journey this has been for you.

i want to go over that for a second, the title of the book in forward, it highlights the car at hand and i like that idea. in the first chapter, talk about the location of thee galapagos islands three ocean currents collide. it's very meaningful so what and and what it means for the future of business in society. >> thank you and thank you for madison street books for having this and hosting this, this is often but thank you for asking about the analogy of the galapagos island. the people who don't know much about the islands, they are an incredible place. it west i of ecuador, ver special, has incredible plants and animals you can't find

anywherean else in the world. what's really interesting is it the location of these major ocean currents converging, one comes from the south, one from the north, another from the o wt and each one has their role in creating this amazing balanced ecosystem for these plants and animals to exist. i use the analogy because if any one of those currents get stronger than it would probably be deaf instruction in that area. in today's environment, technology and future purpose business represented by those grants it's the same thing from any one of the technology or humanity for purpose of business

from the other two, it will create an imbalance which is, i believe we are there imbalance and it will environment conducive to business so we need to getse back in balance and that's why i use the analogy of the galapagos islands. >> i like that galapagos has a place in the environment as well as storytelling history on the environment. i just got comment from the fourth month that convention at hand but you often emphasize importantut repeaters responsibe for this sharing that, how do you see that idea in this? i think that's what said you will hear from plaintiff this

handbook if you will, for leaders gives them a framework of how i think the future, changing meetings are focused at least in part on the future, i am a believer future, i title my book imagine it forward partly because i worked so much and corporate life and i had seen enough people operable about the future. they relegate into areey stratey team or we hire someone and of course you need help but most people think it is something you need regularly. i hope maybe one of the things that there are -- there are many good things coming out of covert but it might them but they have to be much more adapt at looking

at where the trends are converging.ro covert reminded us of that so i think that is particularly timely, people are picking their head up from maybe i get it now, where do i go? got to help with that. >> i like how you talk about the importance of leaders taking responsibly brought themselves from thinking what the future isn't something you just outsource.in leadership comes your a lot in that, i like the fact that you use the word handbook, it really is a guide for anyone in that leadership position. you talk about the importance of leaders dealing with change and it could be uncomfortable but what are some of the steps they need to take in this?

>> one of the first cap, leaders need toer take is internal with themselves and you need to be much more self aware and understand where they come from as far as understanding what the purpose of business is and what they believe about business and their market and what is in the market and the changes happening so i think that's where it starts, internally. i think understanding of convergence in future focus starts with understanding the human system that driving pretty much everything. we think about the business system and economic system and financial systems but there is a human system that is incredibly powerful and it then empowered

by technology and communication technology. we are 3 degrees of freedom from any person on earth, 1 degree of injury and that is create powerful people connect, communicatemu, commonality can raise their voices demand and ideas that is the first step, really understand this human system and that is really the thing that is ubiquitousqu overl where we need to start. >> again, i want to write on the human system from you and i used to joke when we talk about the problemsut there from the issues and changes people tend to be the problem. they are in their own ways, they

understand forward but i like to in terms of storytelling stood out to me, the market future story of your experience in uganda. could you tell more about that especially for the folks there in cyberspace and how it eliminates this relationship with otherth systems? >> i use that to really describe from a business perspective as business tries to do things for the human system from considerations they need to make because "there after so i went to uganda my travel to see the

religious part is i fence face washing amazing satellite communication companies i to connect 3 billion people on the an amazing girl, so many things could happen if they do that. the possibility of patient telemedicine or economic growth people bring the internet to the rest of the population should. when i travel to uganda, is eye-opening because an emerging company, very hard to get to getting to the mountain gorillas a couple days with driving a jeep bumpy roads an amazing site with women flocked 10 miles to

get fresh water and you wonder these businesses trying to bring these areas are they inking about the broader human system people trying to connect to the internet have fresh water. they don't have electricity. have the ability to buy things, they don't have computers if they had money to buy computers which they don't have the means to run something after human centered future life is responsibility if you try to create that future market, meet people where they are at and understand where they are at. telecommunication companies

probably can't solve those problems on the phone they model partnerships relationship with the government, somehow that is what being human centric perspective is solve problems and innovative ways. >> let's turn it back, you talk a lot about in your book and your expenses storytelling and connection, if you brought business relation throughout your career that idea of connection and human i centric difficult talk about your expenses connecting employees with division there are doing in terms of jet engines and other thank you for the guests but i is that so hard flexed by his physician stuff how help them change?

or someone at any level of leadership i think when we think businesses, we think it's about what all about numbers, action but he went are doing that hey i that but we worked as humans and connect some of my favorite quotes was basic customer, there is no business that we have to be with our teams market and you are looking at your career and work and get behind and

understand what people are saying and behind that is there need. one thing as a marketer, that question asked inou business, wt are we trying to solve? it needs to be addressed. that's right in this way really this is something taught in business schooll or re- enforce. i think there's a case that is essential, i believe that so part of your brain, anybody in the world today about talk, part you need a business perspective, to see where it converging.

you have to understand it so leaders need to call back starts with that factor recognizing going overwhelmed by complexity and putting that out and convergent, this is complex. it is so much easier, the world is getting complex. the business between complicated and complex, it is both. technology makes it even more scary politics and later on natural human dynamics so you go crazy but there are t ways to think about that and you must not why i think what deb is doing here is essential. >> i want to add to that. i think it'sth really important

balance is the purposeba of the business. if we don't learn this and businesses or from four weeks learned in business school is the sole purpose of the profit and that is for you. it's been few, if not for the many and 30 larry and black rock conscious capitalism social investing momentum that says got to go back to serving stakeholders. stakeholders being customers, employees, communities we operate, suppliers and getting back to where capitalism started at the beginning which is if we don't take care of all of these

artists stakeholders, we won't have futures market. when i talk about extending after human centric parts but even golf solder because there are problems we have across humanity don't reside in one community, they reside inf thousands of communities. climate change or clean water. the size of companies we have now may operate in hundreds if not thousands of across the globe and they have power inside to innovate and research develop and come up with solutions and i think with that said, you start meeting people where they are at. some of these got to meet people where they are at business several it is no longer good

enough hi, we are here to maximize shareholder profits and i think there is pressure mounting in momentum again open that human sexual behavior i will go on that a little bit further. convergence, you mentioned the leaders of yesterday and plaintiff like the leaders of today or tomorrow as we move forward. when you think about those strengths and what makes a strong leader and convergent how does it differ from when my seat in businessnt school in the 80s and 90s? there are different model we need to think about when we say i am a healer? >> i think leadership can be found everywhere, first of all,

it's not just the top of the organization, i think anybody who brings the best of themselves as well as the people they are around, that is what they leader does. i do think he actually of leaders convergence or human centric are different command and control, it is vulnerability, authenticity, saying i don't know trust, it is reaching out, collaboration those are things that are very different. it is a very human aspect and i want -- i went through business for quite a few years ago and we didn't structure and process controls have to move letters output performance in a human

centric world we have to solve our problems, it is going to take our guard down and become ourselves from a more human, if you will. which means being real coming out from behind that organizational structure, if you will be back on track you say that because that's something that struck me in the conversations, talking about business school aspect and what we learned that he says see mike what you're talking about from a leadership perspective is about what you said what convergent lays out his those soft things what we call really aren't going to be essential. understanding metaphorically and literally around the galapagos

not part of that ecosystem and what convergent home for me taking the big picture, seven fax the holistic system and every said, i like rotation provide who want to be a leader transitioning to the perspective have higher profit operatively long-term profitability not just shareholders so bring it back to shareholder stakeholder that is rejuvenating. when you think about that from a business perspective, how you see the human centric perspective critical to success in the future leaders and businesses?

>> beth can also talk about this from her experience but one thing you can look at his brand. do people feel connected to your branch? people are smart. if your company is not living out what you say are values, people are smart. you can't whitewash it so that is a big part so another big part, humans are where invasion resides in energy and ideas and commitment if you don't tap into that as a leader in your missing a big aspect here. hans, you kind of started with the story, you hear this all the

time from client that say people are the problem and i did have a turn, and aha moment with the senior vice president of sitdown lamenting about gross of her international business and she's not making her numbers and it people. there does not invade of anymore and we are not hiring good people and i can't go on that notion because we've been working with them for a long time and i knew they have these processes cap took out any kind of innovation in the people so that is the crawl inside the book, you have to rewire your business. you've got to take some of that structure and processes blow

them apart and remake to include a human centric perspective because members shall 80% of your human capitol in your business is not calling for your. they're just kind of there doing what you asked them to do but they are not bringing all their energy and innovation so how do leaders tap into that? that is that human centric perspective how to capture that that stopped down to. >> if you've checked, it looks like jeff and julie would agree the idea that this is needed to be reframed to human centric and human skills so thank you for everybody for engaging in the chapter. i want to pull this, leadership

is something that resonated with you as well, talk to r me, whats different about the roles in leaders in the future and how do you seek convergence capture that? what will be different for look forward? >> what's been happening in the chat, the comments are so right. since when are human skills lost skills but we've lost our perspective and we try to do something other than human, authenticity is a lot of what we are making a case for here. what good leaders do, they prepare for the future and they have to inspire others to do that. that is part of it. tell a story, not just do it because they said so, say there is the change that's coming and why we have to be ready and by

our customers have to be ready. i built a career in business but i studied biology i feel biology study was some of the best framing i could have gone for business because what you appreciate when you study a nate is that it is a convergent system. that's what ecosystems are about, the help of everyone moving forward together so i think at what is talked about, the leadership required now, the recognition that these things have always been converging we have to deal with them and it putting people at the center. these are so basic, it's almost embarrassing we have to call it out but we do. anyway, that's -- i'll end

there. >> i think i it's right. i'm looking at the chat, i think it's interesting as well because of the fact that i think it's interesting you highlight the fact that as a trained biologist, is are you up for success and your enjoyment and exploration finding the world, this book was born out of that exploration. not just the work he did but i know how impacted you work by your travels and that's really important that i think shouldn't be lost in what you have done. have taken the ideas that said this is more than just a business, this is human centric system. again, i really liked this idea of future, we need to be taking this into account and thinking about it.

you've done a lot of work with leaders, you have thought a lot about what leadership is going to be in the future. what is your thought for new, middle, and/or where ever you sit on the end of that building, leading and managing teams to take advantage of, what advice would you give to the leaders out there? >> i think it is important in the future, it's important but you also need to look at the past and where we came from. again, i think for those leaders going forward, it's understanding human system, that is the first thing. i do think recognizing the gap aware we have been and where we are and where we need to be. our organizations today are not organized for the future. they are organized very much for something in the past.

a very industrial time, people had to fit in with in the factories. if you just go back and look how we have created some of the hr processes we have around what people can or can't do, how you describe what your job is and all of that, that came out of very different time to recognizing that we have a gap where we areng today with ourza organization and where we need to be which means we are going to have to re-create, break some of that down and re-create. to do that, we have to disrupt decision making so what do i mean by that? inside an organization, there is so much momentum during the same thing over and over because that's how we do it. if you just even consider the

weekly performance check ins and you look at most companies will have -- or even a government organization, they will have how much revenue and sales and backlog, nowhere on that performance platform doesn't say anything about the human system. it doesn't talk about the other stakeholders or heart problems we are trying to solve for humanity so those are the things you have to root out as you lead your team. that is what we called obsolete knowledge and what we know, how we do things, what we believe about our market and ourselves,t about our biases, our beliefs systems when everything around business, we have to determine

what is obsolete and what we need to shed and re-create for the future. then last, coming full circle, future focused leader, it takes practice and asking what if and doing all the things we talked about. rooting out obsolete and understanding that chasm of where we are to where we need to be. >> i think that's interesting not just because i loved the terms but also this idea that the perspective, those who are going to be successful are going to be able to learn as we move forward so oneov thing talked about, what do we need to unlearn? article to the side of it but,

book, youyour own wrote a forward tolo deb's book, what are your takeaways from this book and it value to anyone other they are in a leadership role or just want to explore the future? >> graphite, i think hopefully everyone feels some part of their existence is to understand what the future may hold. you can't spend your whole life and that but this is a good place to start. you could make the argument it's about resilience, i love the comments here and she says you could see the human skills with covert oregon, i am optimistic that leaders are coming back, not the bear going away but they're coming back to did to the fact that they need

different things to navigate the convergent of trends and unpredictability the horizon so i think coming into this understanding that change is iaccelerating exponentially. for me a reason i followed back because i realized in large organizations especially if you've been successful, you think you can outrun change wake up one day and realize you can't. the solar energy we thought would never come here, it is here today. we missed it. i do think everybody's job now in part is thinking about the future, making room for discovering this and it becomes practice and there are ways to do that but i think to get you started here in this white.

>> human personal, i thought was interesting, reading convergence, i thought business and personal human aspect, we do a lot of these things quite well, but what i do and how what i react and how might i plan? regard to work and say it's not my responsibility so i think about this convergentat is the metaphor for so many parts and what the future is going to look like, economy is not going to work, i think we do that well highlighting how the convergent is relative matter your industry or position, no matter where you stand in your career. you mentioned why you imagine if forward, before we open up to questions, i would like to go to

you putting the hours, i worked to put this made you take on this challenge? >> it a lot of work but i want to be part of the dialogue, i wanted to bring my energy and my voice and passion and add to this growing list of people growing number of voices calling for change and you are right, but convergence is so many different waters and things we've got to bee looking at and questioning and asking ourselves, is this the i directn we want to go or do we need to make changes? i want to to write the book to

stimulate that dialogue. it is not a how-to dialogue, my hope is that people read it and ask questions and what if's. they are motivated to talk with each other and do research and wonderment about these issues. that's why i wrote it. >> dialogue here in the chat, that is got to be a sign already. i'll open up for questions, if you be ask a question button, ask what you want to there. using technology, i have questions from ahead of time so i will go off questions that came in.

folks talking about convergence, how is it different than corporate responsibility? one of the aspects of your perspective on convergent as it differs from this corporate responsibly and all these other things out there? >> i think corporate responsibility, i do think it's a notion that probably outlived their usefulness because they are very in controlled into what they are going to do or not do and some companies, these programs have become check writing to highlight to look how quick we are. we gave a check a for $1000. the question is, did you solve any problems?

i think that is what different responsibly also if you look at it inside a business, it is a function, and office. usually an office that under funded, it is very little to do with the larger purpose of the company so when i am talking about is an overlay and maybe i with corporate responsibly but when i am talking about is the need for organization to truly define itself by its purpose and live out the values, not assigned it to a small organization off thee side to write a check. that could add to that her thoughts. >> i was going to say, beth,

what are your perspectives on black? when you think of convergence in the wake the future is shaping up? >> i think she said it pretty well. they are different in some specs yes but i think what i i -- where i have spending a lot of time over the past years, they are all good movements, starting to understand trends are converging, it's not just one thing, you have to look at all of these, oftentimes people especially investing more states and not enough to just be good and one. we've done well in the environment but what about social and government, for example? so i think the recognition that these things are r converging makes deb's case but they are

different in many ways and you are talking here about convergence of many different forces and esg or social responsibility, it too often get delegated people delegating the future, delegating it to someone else to deal with. >> there was an interesting -- i am hopeful for the movement because oprah talks turning it into who get money and funding and how we report this. there is an interesting article in the "wall street journal" a couple of days ago about warren buffett and larry fink and they are pushing very hard to show that responsibility and warren buffett saying not during my time so i am hopeful that esg

movement, social responsibility continues but what that means is bigger changes inside the organization to really report that and embrace that versus what a corporate responsibility office was in the past. >> the other thing that made me think of, convergent is just being aware of theof world outse of you and the organizations people in functions or responsibilities for specific action and what it does make in the case four, you have to look outside and organize yourself in the way the world is flowing and be organized, you can't compartmentalize it so much in the way have historically, you can't just throw money at the problem and assume itt will be solved. >> absolutely.

>> how would you suggest long-term and short-term, you and i have talked about metaphors of what we areho doing but a lot of companies might want to look over that in the quarterly target or other short terms, are there any ways you can consider advice folks, how do they affect or build some of that in from their leadership? >> they are not going to be able to doo everything but pick the one thing you want to make a big impact. for example, water. water is important to all of us and also to every company that makes anything other suitable companies or food or fabric, fashion, water sustains

manufacturing anthony's and not just manufacturing, energy and everything plus it needed by all humans on the planet. you don't necessarily get rewarded for water management strategy if you are ceo leader of the company today but if we do something to destroy our water sourcesme and not take cae of our water,r, you're not going to have a market for the future so that leadership says, it's the right thing to do. i can't leave this problem or add to the problem for my successor, i can't just get in there and get my peace of the reward and leave it to be somebody else'sve problem so pik the problem you want to focus on

then really commit to that and i think that's where you start. that bridges short-term and long-term. >> good, i got two questions i'm going to throw from the audience. the first is, how can we apply these principles to organizations not set up likee a corporation that research institutions whose goal is humaa well-being. >> i think it is, they all apply. look affect human systems, you i understand your organization, i would say those organizations have been for something in the past and not the future and throughout the -- uses decision making internally to pivot toward human centric behaviors.

i think they apply whether you are a prophet business or nonprofit when the government what you are trying to achieve our mission, all of these apply. >> got a question for both deb and hugh. nearly two hours to years, how would you assess following through on their commitment? i'm assuming deb, the business roundtable questions, i am that shareholder. >> i think they are making progress and i do write about that in the book, they signed it and there was a big celebration and we are no longer the sole purpose of the business to only

focus on shareholders brought broader stakeholders. in some cases, covered kind of, maybe through a wrench inew this with some people wanting to make that pivot and some cases human centric organizations behaved in a way and just accelerated their momentum. i think the debates happening now, and they are broad, wide, bloomberg had a climate change summit a couple of weeks ago there were leaders at the business roundtable they are talking about this and they are trying to figure out, how do we measure progress and report progress is there a common

measurement to talk about the progress? i do think there's probably no in-state but the journey they are taking is in a positive direction, i believe. it is hard because we spent decades operating the way we are operating now, it not going to takeno just two years to pivot. we need to look at and be focused on, what are the activities pointing toward that positive in the future? >> i agree, i think it is very positive and i hope that it and accelerates. back to good leadership. good leaders realize they have to think about all stakeholders, not just shareholders.

that is changing. i think one of the great things happening right now, a lot of employee activism. customers have the ability activism was, they don't have to do businesses. i dony think the best companies, the leaders that appreciate these convergent and get ahead of these trends rather than waiting for legislation or somebody to tell them, it started in europe and fenced the california mandating the amount of women. we need it to come to this. there haven't been enough so i

think the best leaders and companies on the one that recognized this only take care of it before they are forced to do it because they realize it is the right thing toor do. ecosystem, everybody works together to figure out how we all do this. >> one last question, i think we have time for. the national science foundation now uses a convergent elevator find proposals opposing this convergent training. have you any experience in this multidisciplinary approach representing these things you are talking about, have you seen that anywhereou else. >> i'm not sure exactly what the national science foundation is doing on this, it sounds like a multi- disciplinary review of

proposals which is fantastic and depends on who the multidisciplinary is so i think if it is in the broadest sense, i think that is great. i think it's also a temporal aspect, not just disciplinary looking at the problem but also temporal from a time aspect capturing the future and today. how are we making back consideration is really important. we arere wrapped up, getting cle to time. i want to make sure, are there any other questions out there i'll give them a second but thank you for joining us, wonderful to see you again after couple of years and have this

conversation but most important, deb, thank you very much on a personal level, i couldn't be more proud to have a hard copy of your book in my hand and i encourage e everyone to buy lots of copies for friends and colleagues and coworkers but don't forget to click the buttot at the bottom thank you for taking the time. congratulations again on the. >> really great to be part of this, congrats, deb. >> thank you both for supporting, this has been fantastic. thank you. >> thank you all for joining us, congrats on the book reminder, you can purchase copies at madison street books. we have late article in each copy and we can ship or you can pick up in chicago in the west loop where we are located. thank you for joining us, have a great rest of your evening. goodbye. >> thank you.

>> but i. >> a look at books being published this week. in nightmare scenario, washington post reporter examining the trump administration's response to the covid-19 pandemic. suggesting the pandemic to purposely destroy small businesses in the war on small business. in the cruelty is it, adam looking at the impact former president trump had on american politics. also being published this week in the perfect police state, journalist jeffrey reporting on china use against weaker populations. d'angelo arguing white progressives often perpetuate racist stereotypes. on these titles wherever books are sold. ♪♪

♪♪ >> here are programs to the carport this weekend on book tv. tonight on our author interview problem "afterwards", andy, former senior advisor in the biden administration, former republican senate majority leader of the u.s. response to the rotavirus pandemic. tomorrow night matthew, executive director of president trump 1776 commission peter

what, a look at 1619 project which examines the foundations of america's beginning and jean becker, former chief of staff to president george h.w. bush recalling the 41st president post presidential life. find full schedule information, and booktv.org or consult your program guide. ...