threat issued and why did we enforce it with military strength? why is this conflict still horrific and tragic ten years later why have they been brought to justice? i tried to explain some of those complexities in the book. to try to make it more powerful, more real more relatable to ordinary people. >> you much of this all previous episodes of "after words" by visiting booktv.org. just click the "after words" tab near the top of the page. >> we are delighted this evening on her author program to welcome author michael has written a wonderful book that has been well received called king richard. he is a journalist formally with the "washington post". he has taught at the university of michigan, princeton and georgetown. he's going to speak to us this

evening for a little bit about his book and will answer questions later in the program. i do want to alert you to the fact this coming thursday we have a another author, robert kyle who is written a book when truth matters about the may 4 incident at kent state. and on monday, june 7, we have the book kindred. and on june 10 we have tony who is the author of the book in the wee small hours. his conversations with frank sinatra. but, i want to return to tonight's program into author michael dobbs who is going to talk to us about his book, king richard. richard nixon the 37th

president in the incident of a watergate. so michael what can you tell us about king richard? >> thank you very much. for those of you who have not seen it, this is a copy of my book which came out last week. it's full title is king richard, nixon and watergate and american tragedy. it has as you can see a rather dark picture of richard nixon on the front cover. going to explain in the little bit the structure of the book. why i chose to collect king richard. but first of all i will tell you a little bit about myself and why i chose to write this book, which is usually the first question that is aimed at authors, write a joint the book? she cannot tell from my accents, i am originally from the uk. but i'm not living in the u.s. i worked for a long time for the "washington post" for 25 years. and when i was a kid, this is

typical of everyone, but for me i used to take these train rides around the uk and it would go through suburbs, past towns and villages. and often they're close to the railway price a look inside the houses as a treatment pass. i was curious what went on these houses over the conversations around the dinner table or the lunch table? were people arguing with each other? or the family dynamics inside these anonymous houses? so perhaps is not surprising i became a reporter as a profession. it's the profession that allows you to exercise your insatiable curiosity.

and to pry into other people's lives. and i started covering big political events. i was sent by the "washington post" as a foreign correspondent. first to poland in the middle of the whole collapse of communism actually. then later on i went to russia. when i arrived in russia the whole system was in the process of collapsing and unraveling. i was a witness to them, a witness to the collapse of communism. but i understood when i was a reporter there was a lot i did not know that was going on behind closed doors. so i was very curious to know what was really happening in the kremlin. as opposed to the part of

politics that russian soviet politicians chose to reveal of themselves. and sometimes said journalism has the first rough draft of history. i wanted to, particularly when i left russia i wanted to find out all the things i had not understood or known about when i was a reporter and moscow. and so i read a book called down with "big brother" which is a narrative history of the collapse of communism i was able to include because of the lease of kremlin documents and interviews with participants in these events. i was not able to penetrate as a reporter. i does felt like a little boy trying to, with my nose

pressed to the glass trying to figure out what's going on inside places i've really got no right to be. and first the kremlin and then later here in washington, the white house. and so this gets me to the >> of why a chose to write this book about nixon and watergate. particularly as his presidency begins to unravel at the beginning of 1973. and the answer is we will never get as rich a archival resource or we will never get as close to any american president as we were able to get for our able to get to the h president, richard nixon.

particularly at this very crucial time of his political career as he was facing the bravest political crisis existential crisis for him and ended up with his own resignation. you will note nixon taped himself and other presidents had taped themselves before nixon. but they all controlled the recording for they turned it off and turned it on when they wanted to with nixon who is among other characteristics he was ham-fisted with technology and no one trusts him he would not trust himself turn on the recording when he wanted to turn it on. the recording devices would turn on automatically when

when noon went into a room or picked up a telephone. that means we've got much more recordings of nixon than any other president. i think with lbj there is 700 hours of lbj telephone conversations. with nixon there's nearly 4000 hours of tape recording sprayed just of his telephone conversations, but he had microphones planted in the oval office, the cabinet room and camp david and telephones including the most private room in the white house where he like to retire at the end of the day, his favorite room in the white house actually was the lincoln sitting room. so, the end of the day he would call people up and talk to them about the events of the day. you have this entire record of

nixon talking and sounding off about everything that happened during the day. then in addition to that there's chief of staff captain audio diary every night. the memoirs of the former white house aide practically everybody who plays an important role in watergate. hundreds of thousands of documents from the nixon white house. see you end up with the richest depository of information of any president. because no president ever going to tape themselves again. they're never going to get as close a view of what is really going on in the white house as we do with richard nixon. even though this was never nixon's intention.

nixon regarded these recordings as his private property which he intended to use for his memoirs. and was horrified when the recordings started to be publicly released because he is completely indiscreet in these conversations. so, no this sort of wealth of documentation poses both a challenge as both a blessing and a curse for biographers of nixon. if you are a biographer trying to describe all of nixon's life life from birth to death, you don't have the space to go into details about what was occurring day by day, minute by minute. you lack the intimacy of these tapes allow. so instead of choosing to write about all of nixon's

life or all of watergate, i chose to focus on the most dramatic moments, for which reasons i will try to explain of the 100 days after his second inaugural from january 20, 1973 when he seemed to be at the top of his game, he still had a 67% approval rating at that time. he had won reelection by one of the largest margins of popular vote in american history if not the largest margin. and then he largely put watergate behind him. he was about to conclude a peace agreement in vietnam. he had various foreign-policy triumphs including the opening to china with russia and so on. was really feeling pretty confident. then within 100 days it all falls apart.

and this very disciplined white house, the aides start fighting with each other. the watergate cover-up of watery gate the attempted cover up disintegrates and everybody is running for cover. the aides start trying to shift the blame onto each other. and finally they all start shifting the blame onto the president himself. it's a very traumatic. all of which is captured or most of it is captured on tape. if you focus on that. , i bring in a lot of background. but the narrative of the story has about that 100 days. it really allows me to it do something that is not been done before which is to tell the story in a very intimate way.

now, why did i called about king richard? of course king richard is an allusion to shakespearean tragedy. i see nixon as a tragic figure. another reason for the title is his mother who is out in california name all of her boys after kings of england. including richard, who she named after the crusader king richard the lion heart. so this title is very apt i feel. the book begins, the opening scene is set in the lincoln sitting room. as i said nixon's favorite room in the white house on the

second floor of the white house and the private quarters. the smallest room in the white house actually. and nixon would go up there every night to listen to music and scribble on his yellow legal pads and on the nights of january 20, 1973 at 1:00 a.m. among other things had trouble sleeping. he could not get to sleep, he called his aide chuck was also known as his hatch man on talks about his wish to get even with his enemies and how he's going to wrap up the vietnam war. and also how he was going to get even with the washington post was pursuing this investigation into watergate. i'm going to play a little extract from that tape.

so you can see how rich this material is. now, he has just come back from the kennedy center. there is an inaugural day concert at the kennedy center. they played the 1812 overture. the pianist was playing so is pumped up about that. he does not like the washington symphony orchestra for political reasons. he has brought the philadelphia harmonic down to play for him. he considers more politically aligned with him particularly the conductor. so i'm going to play a little bit of that. and another extract is about his inaugural address he is about to deliver. he shares portions of it with

chuck. and then he talks about the vietnam war and he talks finally how is when to stick it to the "washington post". i'm going to try to share this with you. and i will meet you on the other side here. okay, i think i am sharing this with you. lincoln's sitting room, generate 20th 1973, president nixon and chuck colson, segment one. >> think you did having three concerts, great sympathy rather than that washington symphony. [inaudible] and norma the was fantastic.

people. [inaudible] and he said i hope he comes back i hope he can put his arm around me. >> [inaudible] >> segment two. >> went to hear a little bit of the acceptance speech? victor would love to. the time has come to turn away from the pompous of capitalism. [laughter] oh great. listen person can be to act responsibly only if there's responsibility it's human nature. and do more for themselves for

themselves. let them take more responsibility. [inaudible] let us measure what we will do for others by what they will do for themselves. that's why i offer no promises to the solution. and for us we have to ask more that can be delivered. to meet further expectations to reduce the effort for the frustrations happening to it government can do what people can do. to learn to take less from people so people can do more for themselves. let each of us remember that america was built not by government but by people. not by welfare but by worth. not by shirking responsibility but taking responsibility. in our own lives let each of us ask, not just with the government will do for me but what can i do for myself?

let each of us ask but how can i help? [inaudible] she reeling his people believe in self-reliance, self-reliance around the world. >> segment three. [inaudible] [inaudible] i do not believe that we deliberately. [inaudible] all of these people. [inaudible]

basically. [inaudible] he wants to end the war. they dropped the atomic bomb by because he wanted to demolish and wanted to end the war. eisenhower bombing the cities and north korea that's what ended the war you know. >> okay, i'm going to ended their without going into the last thing which was. [inaudible] which allows the writer to be

flies on the wall, to these very intimate conversations. frank conversations and go to places and normally completely out of bounds to ordinary mortals. now within 100 days of that conversation, nixon's life had completely unraveled and his presidency had unraveled. all of his aides were fighting with each other. chuck colson was incredibly loyal was in charge of the dirty tricks later on other aides including bob holden and the chief of staff who was an charge of domestic policy, they were forced to resign as

sacrificial, sacrifices she tried to push the blame of a watergate onto someone else. so among other things i'm interested in this group of people around nixon and how they started fighting with each other and their different personalities. we can talk about this more later. ready to do absolutely anything nixon hinted at their carried out immediately without question. we had somebody like the chief of staff, who served as a buffer between nixon and the rest of the white house. the haldeman felt would not be good for the country not good for the presidency.

the people like kissinger he comes across in these tapes and in my book as the arch flatterer he tells nixon he saved this company mr. president the history books will show no one will know what watergate means, excuse my bad german accent. there is a rivalry between nixon and kissinger. nixon wanted to record his conversation to show that he, nixon, was the architect about these foreign-policy motives. at the center of this story is the figure of nixon himself, the 37th president find endlessly fascinating part one

of the reasons i wrote this book but i had a conversation with a man called stanley cutler who was written one of the classical books about watergate's other listeners, i was surprised when he said to me in 20 years is about ten years ago before his death, nobody will know, the pay the other people in the saga that will pay attention to richard nixon and nixon will endure forever. i said i structured this book

as a kind of shakespearean tragedy. from hubris and generate 1973 when he is about to be re- inaugurated, through crisis, catastrophe, and then in the end the downfall of the president setting the stage for the downfall the president. but as you will see, is an american twist at the end which i'm not going to reveal now you have to read the book. not a shakespearean tragedy. as i said it's an american tragedy or drama. it's different from a shakespearean's got to read the book for that very

important is not a human character is these tape recordings dynamic of their own and become a monster that nixon cannot control. ultimately it leads to his downfall. i don't think nixon would've been forced to resign had it not been for this tape recordings. because there would've been his version of events and there would have been the version of events of his accusers particularly john dean his from a legal counsel. it would have been a he said/he she said/story. only because of the existence of the tapes which nixon was finally forced to release, all the smoking gun tapes on the orders of the supreme court that really sealed nixon's fate. one of the reasons i see nixon as a tragic figure and one can

argue about this, is that we can see his suffering and the pain he felt as he gets involved in a situation in a watergate he finally met a crisis that he could not get out of. to part with people who worked for him for many years. in a particularly bob holden. he went through four presidents in four years. i'm sorry donald trump went through four chiefs of staff in four years. men found extremely painful in

april of 1973. so i'm going to end before taking any questions just by playing you one little extract between nixon and holderman after nixon has announced holderman's resignation. and it's very painful to him that nixon starts drinking. by the time he talks to holderman he already has put back a few whiskeys. and so you can hear that in his voice. he talks about holderman as, you're going to hear, my brother. i think this is a reference to nixon's own brother. one of his brothers who died from tuberculosis when nixon was a young man. and so he's forced to part

company with holderman he's thinking about this tragedy that happened to him when he was a young man with actually two of his brothers died of tuberculosis. one particular he was very close. so i am just going to share the screen again and then we can talk on the other side of this last little recording of going to play for you. >> camp tapered april 28, president nixon. >> i'm sorry that's the wrong one, just before that. >> sitting room april 30 covid 1973, president nixon and bob

holderman. >> hello? [inaudible] [inaudible] right where we want to be. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] the only thing i can recall, this is after. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> you better check for sure.

[inaudible] i any event i just wanted you to know. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] keep the faith, keep the faith you're going to when. they talk about the other side. [inaudible] [inaudible] what i deeply felt the religious, god bless america. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> i'm all for that.

there's the reaction. [inaudible] >> i don't think i can. [inaudible] any cabinet officer and staff member. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] okay. keep the faith, right? >> okay, so that was the end of this. it went beyond that.

but this is the main part of the narrative. if you have any questions i would love to respond. but thank you for bearing with me. i hope you could all hear those little audio extracts without any trouble. happy to answer any questions. >> thank you michael. we do have questions. but first and foremost, can you talk to me a little bit about how you access to these tapes? about how many hours of tapes there are? >> there's a total of 3700 hours. only a small fraction of which were released while nexium is still president on the orders of the supreme court. so most of the standard nixon, watergate books do not include this 3700 hours.

most of these 3070 hours of tapes were only released in the last ten years or so. so there actually all up on the nixon library website but it takes a bit of navigating but anyone can go and listen to them. you can also listen to some of the extracts on my website. at least some of the tapes i use in the book. michael dobbs books.com. if you go there you will find some of the tapes i have quoted from including the ones i've just played this evening. >> thank you. why do you think we are still fascinated with the 37th president? >> well, partly it is the important nature of his presidency. i think this was the turning point for america in the end of the 60s. is the culmination of the vietnam war, important moves

in foreign policy including into china which we are living with the implications of that now. but mainly it's nixon's own personality. this man who really brought himself up from nothing. he was born to a dirt poor quaker family out in california. he is often compared to trump. trump was born onto a base nixon had everything he achieved, he did through his own efforts. and then he threw it away because of the flaws in his character. particularly his paranoia and miss trust in his determination to fight for everything he achieved. that sort of became also his fatal flaw. to turn nation to get even with his enemies and settlement. he's a man of great talents,

great vision, he worked extremely hard is kind of an ordinary american. he has all of the virtues and all of the flaws of the average american. he worked harder than anybody else. he hated people with greater intensity than anybody else. so he just took everything too extreme. and you know, for me that is a fascinating character study. >> 's interested in the makeup of the supreme court up a time. and if nixon had any vision of this ever ending up with supreme court? >> he chose to keep the tapes. actually i end the book with the scene. it is july/august of 1973

after one of his aides, alexander butterfield has revealed the president has been taping himself. and so then nixon, he hears about this aids in the hospital suffering from pneumonia in the same naval hospital actually where i live just outside of washington, same hospital that president trump was taken to with covid a few months ago. and nixon is there he is feeling terrible so his mind is kind of clouded. because he is on heavy painkillers and so on. he has to take a decision on what many of his aides are urging him to have a bonfire on the white house lawn and destroy the tapes. he still thanks he can control the tapes. the tapes will be his ally, in this fight with john dean

others left selective portions of the conversations that will bolster his version of events. with the terrible miscalculation and we know that now. at the time it seemed logical to nixon. as for the supreme court, it was actually the probably equal numbers of liberal and conservative justices on the supreme court. when it came to the question of whether not the tapes should be released, there is a unanimous decision among all of the justices including the conservative ones to order nixon to release those tapes that would shed light on whether crimes have been committed in the white house. >> did the supreme court

acquired transcripts of those tapes or did they require making those tapes publicly accessible? >> guest: is a long argument over on how exactly he would release the tapes. i did not deal with this in the book myself, it's what happens "after words" becomes a legal political argument forming a personal psychodrama i described in the book. so initially nixon says they won't release the tapes i will released transcripts. so he released sort of doctored transcripts. i mean people of my age will remember he release these transcripts with every other sentence was deleted. and so it was suspected he was not really releasing all of the incriminating stuff on the tapes. so finally the supreme court

said no, transcript or not good enough you have to actually release the tapes themselves. stay when you about nixon in the very beginning of your book as humorous. can you expound a little bit on hubris that nixon has? >> yes actually i quote the man you heard in the beginning says hubris became the mark of the nixon man. because hubris was the quality nixon admired most. hubris is a greek word which means excessive pride, presumption and in greek tragedy, you know the hero is always brought down by his arrogance or pride. and so i think this pretty much sums up nixon in january

of 1973 that everything is going right for him. he is kind of coasting after his reelection. he thanks he can stick it to his enemies, he uses more colorful language than this often. but i am toning it down here. he thanks he will stick it to his enemies and they say he's really setting himself up for the fall later. but that is what hubris means there's plenty evidence of it in those early scenes i described in my book. >> michael it's been said he had the language of a drunken sailor. sometimes he had very objectionable language and tone. are there conversations and with whom do you find as a reporter, some of these are

surprising? he was horribly bad about swearing. what do you find most surprising as a reporter? >> there is a lot of semitic generally racist remarks that he indulges in. of course he was not doing this in public and these are private tapes. it's not like trump tweets these are private never intended to be made public. improbably, to be fair to him, if we were tape-recorded, many of us we would say things that are embarrassing we would not the general public let alone everybody in the world to listen into our private conversations. steve got to cut him some slack for that. but he did swear i think more than the average person. and he has got this very colorful phrase.

one of the things you see is even someone like kissinger who comes from a completely different background, a german jew is trying to compete with each other to where. [laughter] like nixon. so, partly asked what surprised me. i guess it's this dynamic of all the people all of the aides is like a roll of court which they're trying to compete against each other to gain the attention and the benevolence of the king. very interesting internal dynamic that's going on that i tried to describe. >> host: let's speak a little bit about that competition among the aides.

what then really prompts the defection i suppose of the aides? >> that is a good question. well, it really starts unraveling when the burglars who broke into the watergate back in 1972, they are caught red-handed input on trial. the administration tries to cut off responsibility at the level of their burglars and their immediate boss gordon. and so they are put on trial for the trial actually starts at the same time i begin the narrative. and a man called jeb mcgruder is the head of the committee to reelect the president, he goes before the judge and commits perjury. the prosecutor asks mcgruder if he gave any instructions

for the break-in of the watergate or the taking of democratic national committee. he is this young cherub looking ambitious aid in his 30s, he says no, it has nothing to do with him. and gordon was acting without any authorization at all. in fact himself is authorize the break-in. but one of the burglars of man named james mccord listens to this. he thanks why should i in the rest of us take responsibility for this when we know the real, the people who gave the orders including job mcgruder are getting off scott free and we are about to be sent to this horrible jail, the

washington d.c. jail. and so mccord decides he's not going to put up with this and writes a letter to the judge. and you know, that is when the hold cover-up starts unraveling. mccord says perjury has been committed in the trial. the presence of legal counsel, john dean, realizes the white house is being blackmailed. he is afraid he could be implicated, he will be sent to prison. he is not willing to be sent to prison for the crimes as he sees it of other people. so he turns on nixon first wealthy turns on mcgruder and tries to get mcgruder to shoulder responsibility started this infighting between mcgruder and dean. as nixon puts it, his aides

are passing on each other and they start to sing on the president to be crude about it. which is what nixon was. so, what's the taboo has been broken, there is just one person, james mccord is not willing to go along with the cover-up. starts blowing the whistle on it. in this whole "house of cards" begins to fall apart. >> the mostly attorneys and lawyers? from my memory seems like nixon was quite the law student. several of the aides were law students. did they not? >> that is one of the points john dean makes actually.

at one point writes up a list of everybody who is involved in the watergate either in the white house or to reelect the president he puts asterix against all the lawyers. most of them are lawyers including nixon himself. of course, the whole legal question of obstruction of justice and conspiracy is a specialized branch of the law. they were not necessarily criminal lawyers. but some of them are smarter than others realizing the legal jeopardy they were in, i would think dean was the smartest in that respect he realized he could be sent to prison for many years. that was one reason why he blew the whistle on the whole conspiracy. but yes, they were lawyers they should have known better. but it nixon says at one point if the president does it, then

that means it's legal. so he thanks if the president orders a break-in, can claim he's justified for national security reasons. this was the whole political, legal dispute at watergate that in the end they decided just because the president orders it, does not mean it is legal at all. he became a constitutional crisis precisely for that reason. karol wants to know about his enemies and who was nixon out to get? >> he was out to get anybody there is a long list of enemies beginning with the kennedys. because if you recall, nixon had lost an election to jack kennedy in 1960. it was a modern-day echo if we

think about the events of the past few months, that actually 1960 election was extremely close. much closer than the last election. it was determined by a few thousand votes in illinois and texas including disputed votes in cook county that were controlled by mayor daley of chicago. nixon had a much more legitimate basis for challenging the results of the election then certainly donald trump did in my view in the last election. but, he did not challenge the results of the election. he decided for the good of the country he would accept the results of the election. but he held a lasting garage against the kennedys. he was determined he would

never again allow himself to be cheated. so this explains in part his thirst for political intelligence when it came to the two election he was determined not to be sent just describing what's going on in his mind, he is determined not to allow the kennedys to cheat him of an election again who is not so much the kennedys but the democrats. that thirst for political intelligence is one of the sources of watergate. as far as the enemies are concerned they range from the kennedys to journalists, to the entire eastern foreign policy establishment, the elite in general. he drew up along enemies list

and there are some quite humorous enemies. for example he had a dispute with the dean of the washington cathedral lbj dies in the middle of all of this. they are deciding whether to bury or have a memorial service for president johnson in the national cathedral in washington. but nixon, one have his enemies is the dean of the cathedral who is a big leader of the antiwar movement. so nixon goes off on a terrain against the dean of the cathedral and says he's not going to allow a funeral to take place in the cathedral. and if it does he's not going to attend and so on and so forth. so all of this, you get kind of an insight into you know the depth of his hatred of the other side, which is very revealing. when kathie munson about the environment in the newsroom during that time.

when you know about that? >> will i started working for the post after this. but i do know some of the actors involved including bob woodward and carl bernstein. course for journalists like those who they were young reporters at the time. this was the kind of story that perhaps they dreamt of. the post was under great pressure from the administration. it was just begun going public. so there's pressure on the proprietor, kathryn graham to restrain the reporters but she sided with the reporters. so the post was breaking all of this news is extremely exciting. you had a whole generation of reporters that wanted to model themselves on bernstein and

woodward that's another story. i guess a lot of reporters like myself went into journalism in part because of the whole story woodward and bernstein and watergate. >> i hate to take you back to the tapes money what to ask you, there is a tremendous amount of tapes. focused on these months. you said were the most passionate, the most critical perhaps. did you listen to them all? >> no i did not listen to them all. i listen to the key ones. it depends some of the tapes are better quality than others. those i just played corded on the telephone they are easy to understand. there are some tapes that are pretty much impossible.

professional archivist who job it was to listen to all of the tapes and make transcripts of some of them they calculated you needed to listen for 100 hours in order to get one hour of transcript. so if you multiply that by read thousand 700 hours of tapes, you can see it would take several lifetimes for somebody to listen to all of the tapes and decipher them all. in a completely unintelligible pretty have to confess i did not listen to them all. >> aren't there portions missing? something very famous about that missing minutes? guess the famous missing 17 minutes, is probably one of the first tapes after the watergate break-in when nixon is talking to his aides. so obviously there's conversations about watergate in it.

there's been a lot of conspiracy theories about what is in those missing 17 minutes. does it actually reveal that nixon ordered the break in at watergate i don't think it does. you have to triangulate other sources of information including the holderman diaries. we know pretty much what was in the 17 minutes. i think it's just nixon being and fisted any started listening to these tapes, he started pressing all these buttons on his tape recorder. he probably wanted to get rid of some bits that were compromising to him. but actually then any more compromising than lot of other things on the tapes. that is what most historians, including me believe. but you know, you can argue about that. we went michael anything we've learned from all of this?

>> well, i mean nixon he kept on saying problem was not the original crime it was the cover up. and he had experienced himself of unraveling a cover up when he's a young congressman. he shows whatever else you do don't cover it. the cover-up and watergate became worse the original crime. he could have blamed watergate on various ordinance. but covering it up, obstruction of justice was what really brought him down. but on a larger level would say at least my focus into is

very introverted it's kind of a american versions of a royal court. there are all of these around the president and the president in the white house becomes extremely isolated. it is a kind of echo chamber which everyone is telling the president what they think he wants to hear. that is a dangerous situation. not just for nixon but for all presidents after a bit they become isolated, distant from reality. this is particularly a problem of the second term. the first term -- anyone living in that very sort of pressurized fishbowl type of environments, you have to be a very sane person to remain

grounded in a common sense and some degree humility. you need somebody, people say traditionally that's what spouses do, what the family does they keep the president sort of grounding. the disease of any president some presidents suffer from more than others. >> thank you for your discussion this evening. and for doing the research, and for appearing tonight via zoom. we greatly appreciated. i would encourage people to pick up this book, king richard it was available on amazon and most bookstores now as i understand. and i hope you enjoyed it. i hope you enjoy the book. >> thank you very much it is been great to be with you. and you are encouraged out and

buy the book or at least borrow from the library. you very much. thank you pretty wish all of you good evening, thank you for joining us, good night. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and now on cspan2's book tv, more television for serious readers. good afternoon welcome to our virtual events, why it is okay to speak your mind.