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>> a subcommittee held a hearing on plastic pollution, witnesses from a recycling group the plastic many fracturing industry and academics testified on how to reduce plastic use and recycle the plastic that is used. >> this hearing will come to order, without objection the chair is authorized to declare recess at any time, before i deliver my opening remarks i want to note that today the committee is meeting in person and virtually, i want to announce a couple of reminders to the members of the conduct of the hearing, first members and staff who are attending in person and unvaccinated against covid-19 must stay masked throughout the hearing unvaccinated members may remove their masks only during the questioning under the five-minute role, members who are attending virtually should keep their video feed on as long as they are present in the hearing, members are responsible

for their own microphones please also keep your microphones muted if you are speaking, if members of documents to submit forec the record please e-mail them to the committee clerk whose e-mail address was circulated prior to the hearing, good morning and thank you all for joining today's hearing and a special thank you for our witnesses for joining us here today two years ago i had the honor and privilege of hearing the first hearing on recycling in this committee and almost over a decade, since then much has changed but the problem ofo plastic waste and how to enable a circular economy for recycling continues, we only have to look to the past year end a half to see some of the important medical and safety functions of plastic. face shields, facemasks and other personal protective equipment allowed america's essential workers to be on our front line of our nations covid-19 response, disposable

syringes are helping to deliver vaccine shots and arms all across this country plastic cane be designated to be rigid enough to be used in vehicle safety applications, durable enough to hold liquid products for years and flexible enough to keep our food fresh virgin plastic is also cheap to produce, unfortunately the characteristics that make plastic convenient also make it difficult to recycle and to manage after it's been used. global plastic production increase from 2 million tons per year in 1950 we remember plastic, plastic, plastic to 400 million tons annually in recent years, what is more if current trends continue plastic production is projected to quadruple by 2050, so there is no one size fits also solution but what we do know and where we want to start is reducing,

reusing and recycling, historically the u.s. has done t great job but it has not done the best job at recycling and we recycle less than 9% of our plastic waste despite alls the campaign that are pursued across the country, for more than 20 years the u.s. shift our plastic waste to international market to be recycled with one of the major markets closed in 2018 items collected for recycling satin warehouses because many cities across the nation did not have a local recycle or that could process these bales of plastic which are too often highly contaminated. unfortunately our communities face the choice of incinerating recycles or dumping them in landfills while market, economic and other factors led to the current plastic pollution

prices, part of the solution can be to invest in research to reduce plastic waste and improve domestic recycling infrastructure and capabilities. i was proud to introduce the plastic waste reduction in cycling research act from ohio congressman anthony gonzalez. the bill calls on the federal government to develop a strategic plan for plastic waste reduction and directs the office of science and technology policy to establish a program to leverage the expertise of federal science agencies, academia, scientific association, state and local government and the private sector. this bill will support research in international standard development to spur innovative sustainable a world leading u.s. industry classics recycling, research is absolutely needed into how to design plastic to be

recyclable, up cycle existing plastic into high-value product, minimize environmental impacts of plastic waste and recycling on our climate and to improve plastic waste management to prevent plastic from entering our air, soil and oceans. finally, this legislation would support the measurement science needed to make sorting technologyma more efficient and update standards for characterizing the multilayered plastic packaging materials used today. no one solution would completely sell plastic solution rather it will take multiple efforts the research supported in this bill can drive innovation and innovation is at the heart of american industry and manufacturing that creates jobs, i look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses as our committee explores challenges and opportunities for

adopting sustainable upstream plastic waste reduction solution and improvement to recycling system beforeov i yield to his opening statement i would like to open intoto the record to letters of support for the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act from the american chemical society and the national league of cities. the chair now recognizes mr. walsh for an opening statement. >> take you madam terry before i get my opening statement i would like to wish you a happy birthday. and i share your passion for this topic i'm an avid recycler in my 17-year-old daughter keeps me on track in that regard, good morning, thank you for holding today's hearing, it's good to be in the hearing room with you, i look forward to examining emerging technologies and

plastic recycling, i would also like to think our witnesses for a period before the subcommittee and sharing their expertise with us, as we take a step back i want to note in the 20th century in the united states as a leader in the development of plastics we revolutionize the world by making material wealth widespread and obtainable like never before, however, the u.s. recycling infrastructure has failed to keep up with the booming plastic market, and 2018 the u.s. produced 36 million tons of plastic as the chairwoman noted, however, the domestic recycling industry only repurposed 8.5% of it. america has a new opportunity to lead in the development of a circular economy of plastic, an economy that produces, recycles and reuses material to reduce

cost and waste. investment in research and development of new sustainable materials recycling technology will help the environment in the u.s. economy. for example with advance recycling tools and technology we can fully repurpose plastic without needing to harvest any new resources in essence we can turn waste into a marketable commodity in the economictr potential truly is met accordinc to a report by the american chemistry council advance recycling could support over 38000 u.s. jobs and 10 billion in economic output, today plastics are integral to our daily lives but we cannot ignore their impact on the environment and in my district northeast florida we are blessed with miles of beautiful coastline is the main focal point of our lives and of our economy. moving from plastic waste to plastic reuse ensures the protection of florida's pristine

beaches which many on this committee like to visit in the floridian economy that rely on healthy coastal ecosystems. i recently had the real pleasure to visit the loggerhead marine t life center in jupiter, florida which was amazing to see the research in the marine life that they are helping but it is also very disturbing to see the amount of micro plastic that aro appearing in our ocean food supply, it was staggering w and dangerous and we absolutely need to take action. i believe that using innovative methods to bolster and optimize our plastic recycling will not only preserve thisy environment but also avoid costly regulations. that is unlike the plastic provision in the green new deal

additionally as demonstrated over the last year our national security is y at risk as long as we are dependent on foreign nations particulate on the chinesee communist party for essential commodities or services, america's clean energy future requires a reliable and stable supply of critical minerals, my bill american critical mineral independence act addresses the issue of america's reliance on foreign nations to obtain critical minerals, i am pleased that a provision of the legislation was included for the future act that recently passes committee, when it comes to recycling the u.s. cannot remain expert reliant for one media reports regarding china's 2018 plastics importation restrictions highlighted that china never actually disposed of plastic properly, secondly we should not become reliant on china for anotherer critical service especially when there is untapped economic gain to be have at home.

the science committee's role is to look to innovation to solve major challenges facing our nation and it's just what were doing here today, we have witnesses from academia and industry who are working on new solutions on plastic recycling including chemical recycling and applying robotics and artificial intelligence to material sorting i look forward to having ann insightful conversation innovation in these areas will ensure a better world for our children and grandchildren, thank you, madam chair and i yield back. >> thank you the chair recognizes the chairwoman of the full committee chairwoman johnson for an opening statement. >> in morning and thank you, chairwoman for holding today's hearing. and happy birthday. leaders across the globe are wrestling for the needs to reduce plastic waste and i appreciate the fact that you

chairwoman congressman gonzales, this bipartisan leadership on legislation that youhi introducd supporting research develop activities to help reduce plastic waste, communities acrosshe the country including y district in dallas, texas are trying toto find solutions to dl with the increasing levels of plastic waste, the statistics of plastic solution are staggering and 2018 it was the third largest source of menace of both solid waste in the united states in that year alone we generated 35.7 million times of plastic waste, recycled 3 million tons,

combustion 5.6 million tons and put 27 million tons of plastic and wasteland fields, these statistics make itst imperativeo support research that can help us move forward in a sustainable way. experts agree that no single solution will solve the plastic waste crisis. we must have all of the above approach and doing the same variant to the recycling system and a potential for upstream solutions and what research technology that we need to fill, also critical is understanding the need of stated development and new assessment models in a singable system.

collaboration will be key between federal agencies, state and local government academia, the private sector and international partners. today's hearing is very important in the stuff that were taking and achieving to work to achieve sustainability goals for our environment, i look forward to this discussion. >> figure madam chair and if there are members to submit additional opening statement, your statements will be added to the record at this point, also at this time i would like to introduce our witnesses, our first witness is ms. harrison, ms. harrison is the chief executive officer of the recycling partnership, national nonprofit and activating a circular economy throughout the

united states she is an environment to offer dedicated tont engaging companies and makg measurable lasting change in communities. engaging more than 70 funding partners in reaching more than half of american households. of minnesota for sustainable, he joined the department of chemistry at the university of minnesota in 1997 and it's currently the t presidential endowed chair chemistry at the university.e where research focuses on the synthesis and self-assembly of multifunctional polymers, doctor hill myers served as an associate editor for the acs

journal from 2018 - 2017 and he has been editor in chief since 2018. at the university of michigan and served as a director of the center for sustainable systems. he also holds appointment as a professor in the school for environment and sustainability. in the department of civil and environmental engineering. his development invite cycle models in his sustainability matrix to guide design and improvement of products and technology, our final witness is mr. joshua baca, he is a vice president of the plastic division of the murky chemistry council in this role he oversees strategic programs to advance a science-based policy agenda, national outreach and sustainability initiative on behalf of america's leading

plastic makers he leads industry initiatives and fosters multi-stakeholder dialogue around helping and plastic waste by creating a circular economy. as our witnesses should know, you will each have five minutes for your spoken testimony, your written testimony will be included in the record for the hearing, when you all have completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with questions, each member will have five minutes to question the panel, we will start with ms. harrison's opening testimony. >> figure for the opportunity to speak about this important topic, as you know i'm the ceo of the recycling partnership and were a national nonprofit that ngworks with companies, communities and policies to strengthen the u.s. recycling system you may remember a recent

campaign for boost recycling that was an example of the type of grant that we give and how we partner with thousands of cities across the county and across the country, the recycling partnership is designed to bring together public and pregnant under private sectors because without a nation recycling will never deliver the solutions that we all need recycling when something will become something new again but we need to ensure that is by playing and not just by chance as if the current case. we are here to talk about how to execute that plan as shared vision for the future, one of a circular economy, moving away from a m linear economy where we take raw materials from the planet, make stuff out of it just to bury all of that value back in the ground after a singlele use. committee members recycling is so much more than just putting things in the recycling bin, it is really about smarter and stronger methods for

manufacturing. but there is a hitch as many of you have heard recycling needs help in overcoming that's over here today in the recycling partnership distro to report that you may be interested in is called pena forward and how it will paint evidence. it is outline the u.s. recycling system and deliver rewards to the environment and the economy. when it comes to plastic technology has an important role to play in delivering the better system. r&d can help us answer important questions like how do we better design plastic products to meet the demands of infrastructure. things like labels, inks, adhesive, they make a big difference in determining if something is truly recyclable. similar how do we make sure

improvement of the infrastructure are aligned with all the innovation of what's coming into the system, what is being design, how can we develop to make sure that across the country its quality of recyclable stock that they are getting and exactly how can we make sure that recycle content supply is available for u.s. businesses. like businesses in all of your states there is unified in north carolina turning old water bottles into recyclables for close, hollywood and indiana making indoor and outdoor and envision plastics in california capturing ocean nonplastic and speed stock in soap bottles or companies in illinois and in michigan, texas and pennsylvania all turning bottles into new bottles. so why does this matter to this committee. three think should be top of

mind for our t discussion today, system solutions, scale and speed. r&d that focuses on those three things matter most, technology only helps if it's part of a system, what's not needed one off technology, silver bullet, individual projects that don't add up to system change. each one of those businesses that i mentioned and all the others are hard to overcome ectechnical barriers in order to become profitable and grow we need research to turn those technical barriers into bridges helping to create ae circular economy, not just by chance but by plan. we commend to this committee for detention for plastics for our particular economy and i'm grateful for the opportunity that i have today, the recycling partnership looks forward to working with you that creates jobs, protector planet.

thank you. >> now will hear from doctor hill meyer. >> thank you chairwoman siemens and chairwoman johnson and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to provide testimony in today's hearing in order to have this opportunity to speak with you today i'm a professor of chemistry at the university of minnesota and the director of the national science foundation for sustainable power and innovation at minnesota, i have worked in the field since my time as undergraduate research at the university afford iron my phd in chemistry and technology since beginning of professor minnesota i worked in areas of sustainable with my research today toto sustainability. as a director of section 2009 i led numerous research efforts and managed a broad research portfolio focused on sustainable

partners. i have a passion for advancing powers through basic research endeavors that will circulate our economy for futureol generations. the society depends on plastic every day and nearly all established new and emerging high and applications that are phase of the crisis inconvenience inefficiencies associated with the use of these modern materials also comes at i cost. every increasing broadly distributed and persistent solution. nearly all the plastic produce globally is from nonrenewable sources that's contributed to the depletion of stocks harbor by earth, we all know about plastic recycling and the indicators on plastic but a very small percentage of plastics are effectively recycle, to make matters worst under worst plastic is used for short period of time like packaging or disposable service where and immediately disposed and discriminate leave.

as a value of the plastic material lost waste is generated and very little is recycle. staggering level of these materials and micro prospects are out there from inner landscapes and waterways causing environmental damage and resulting negative impact to the food chain and ultimately is a near concern, and plastics that have short use of a lifetime and within the environment can cause damage to her ecosystem that is unsustainable. however, we only plastic these materials are still important and difficult to imagine modern society without them plastics contribute to sustainability in positive ways such as lightweight transportation food utpreservation in energy application. the other main kitchen routing factor is the plastic of thesew materials that are generally available at product. the performance, while i argue that we only plastic we don't need all plastic.

certainly unnecessary plastic materials permeate our society an admission that played a role in our future. for some places where we used to much plastic. we in a major change the way that we produce, use and recycle plastics the goal of 0 plastic is a necessary one for sustainable future, to realize this vision there are woman factors, these include policyy initiatives, improve recycling practices, infrastructure and industry adoption and state of current plastic products, packaging and processing. i'm here today to emphasize the fact the basic and fundamental research and sustainable policy and will continue to be essential for a strong foundation from which new sustainable technology can be built. this is where government private foundation support an important role in basic research and sustainable that deems to uncover the underlying principles associated with

conversion of renewable intermediates, to incorporate those chemicals into advanced poyner structures and design materials for viable and sustainable end-of-life post use and the future. this important research aimed at understanding fundamentals in revealing what is possible for the sustainable is decades behind work and nonrenewable fossil derived non-degradable and practically nonrecyclable material to dominate today's landscape. significant efforts support a new initiative to him future generations for and benefits of plastic will simultaneouslypl eliminating the negative consequent this. the written testimony for research efforts carried out and the national sciencef foundation for sustainable, my view on broader research and sustainable arena of my support for the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act. thank you for this opportunity to testify today i am moderate to be here to share my thoughts

and visions for sustainable future and i look forward to answering any questions you may have. thank you. >> think you the honor is all ours and with that we will hear from doctor. >> think you chairwoman and all the other members of the subcommittee. my name is greg i serve as director for sustainable systems at the university of michigan and professor of the school for firemen and state stain ability and civil engineering. my research focuses on the development of lifecycle models the design and improvement of design and technology. our center recently developed the first comprehensive characterization of plastic used across the u.s. economy i have observation recommendation based on this another plastic sustainability researchan with industries ranging from milk packaging to building insulation. the plastic waste crisis is more

than a packaging waste problem two thirds of the plastic put into use in the u.s. it other than packaging including consumer projects, furniture, electronics, transportation and building. each with unique challenges and opportunity. than eight retired in these product service cycle multiple technical and economic barriers material recovery and used a packaging of a highli recyclability in a low recycling rate can be traced to inexpensive abide with material quality issues. plastic content is estimated 20 to 30% in commercially viable mechanical recycling system cannot handle the current volume and diversity of plastics and e-waste buildings are using increasing amounts for trim and composites of insulation. in giving the building

demolition of mixed waste with low fractions of plastic. plastic wealth in transportation sector has been primarily to efforts in the specialized properties that engineered before plastic recovery from the residue is challenging 39 different plastic types are used to make cards separation technology are careful intensive and the cost to separate clean, collect often exceed plastic and system analysis tools are necessary to overcome these challenges first research is needed to fill in gaps and plastic material flow improved characterization will facilitate coordination between product design manufacturing material recovery effort this is needed to direct r&d andnd capital resources toward bottleneck stages in greatest need of

innovation. lifecycle is needed for innovation robust cost-effective solution, lifecycle assessment plastic used in product can elucidate trade often guide improvement there necessary to avoid burden shifting and sustainable alternative. third emphasize interdisciplinary to develop possibly solution at the core the crisis is the economic problem, sustainable solutions are effective when there's alignment between technology, market policy and behavioralve drivers. interdisciplinary research for get-together engineers and industrial colleges economist, policy analyst, behavioral scientist can achieve convergence and robust solutions were quickly also implementation can be accelerated when academicspl and government and community partners help create solutions. r&dld should product be on

recycling i strongly encourage the broadening to develop solutions that can avoid or limit generation of waste. service life extension of product, reusing remanufacturing, develop a roadmap to guide r&d coronation across the agency, this can help research priorities and avoid research duplication given the wide array of resident and oscomposite types used for the wide range of plastic applications each with a bearing lifetime. finally plastic waste, reduction solution should reduce carbon emission, humanity is facing the carbon emergency, climate emergency we need to prioritize technological plastic waste reduction innovation that can also create solution to accelerate greenhouse gas emissions to 0. o in conclusion, solution to plastic waste crisis will require a major transformation

of systems with technology, community engagement, behavior change in policyy innovation. technological innovation that reflect alone will not be sufficient i fully support the goals of the committee legislation in my system analysis based recommendation will help strengthen programming and implementation. we appreciate the opportunity to share my perspective and welcome your questions, thank you very much for your attention. >> thank you so much, we will hear from mr. baca. >> in morning let me first start off by thanking the subcommittee for holding this important hearing today. i want to commend the chairwoman for michigan for her leadership on this issue her pragmatic approach and driving actions in her collaborative style in bringing stakeholders together to solve big challenges that we face in the nation. the american chemistry council c plastic division is pleased to

provide testimony to the subcommittee, are members of the leading producers of modern plastic materials used to make countless consumer and durable goods used in a variety of applications and innovations that improve the quality of our lives, our environment and our economy. acc encourages passage of the bipartisan plastic waste reduction and recycling research act if passed, this legislation would direct federal government resources to improve the global competitiveness of u.s. plastic recycling and ensure u.s. leadership and plastic waste reduction and recyclingec research. it would help capture the value of used plastics to enhance research and development and create standards, tools and technology necessary to modernize and expand today's recycling system. finally it will accelerate the research and development for recycling technology. our members are deeply committed to creating a circular economy for plastics and indian plastic waste in the environment. plastics contribute sustainability goals which help protect the american environment for future generations plastic

waste does not. waste in the environment including plastic waste is never except actions of 202018 americas plastic maker establish two ambitious circular economy goals. by 203100% of u.s. plastic packaging will be recyclable or recoverable. by 2040, 100% of u.s. plastic packaging will be reused, recycled or recovered. last year we released oured roadmap to reuse which outline division and a set of actions to mobilizing plastic value to achieve these goals. our industry has worked to grow the circular economy for all plastics but implement tina roadmap, since july of 2017 our industry has invested $6 billion to grow plastics, recycling in the united states, most in advance recycling technology, while traditional recycling processes will continue to play in important role in plastic

recycling, they do face important limitations. newer cutting-edge technology known as advance recycling complements these traditional systems by picking up where them leave off and enabling communities to recycle significantly more than greater quantities of plastic. advance recycling technology are innovative manufacturing processes that fundamentally transform the chemical structurl back to the basic chemical building blocks, these building blocks of the raw materials used for making virgin quality plastic and other valuablecs products. they enable more types of plastics to become resources for new manufacturing, conserving natural resources and helping grow local jobs and economies. momentum for advance recycling accelerated across united states and the plastic waste reduction and recycling will help sustain

the momentum globally recognized corporations and mature recycling enterprises are making significant commitment and building infrastructure at a commercial scale, technology has evolved in crating new opportunities and tremendousea breakthroughs toug create virgin quality packaging critical for demanding more from application such as food grade and pharmaceutical packaging. there is a significant and growing market for recycle products driven by company commitment and consumer demand for using more recyclable plastic and products. 14 states has enacted legislation to update their existing log so companies are more appropriately regulated in the deployment of advance recycling technology. and a first wave of advance recycling enterprises is achieving third-party validation through internationaly certification. we believe with the right approaches and commitment a challenge a plastic waste in the environment is solvable and collective action by government,

industry, nonprofit and ngos will make america more sustainable. the stakes are high, plasticsta are critical to a modern society from vehicles to reduce carbon emissions to sealing and insulating our homes and buildings to delivering essential healthcare preserving food and preventing food waste in contributing to an overall higher quality of life, again i want to think the subcommittee for holding this important hearing today we appreciate the opportunity to collaborate on this legislation and futuremp legislation and i yield my time back to the chairwoman. >> thank you so much mr. baca and as you can all tell we have a great group and this is making for an exciting hearing, at this point were gonna move to our first round of questions in the chair is going to recognize herself for five minutes of questioning, a recent federal study found that contamination of recyclables is a major

crosscutting challenge to the u.s.en recycling system i have seen this in my own district in southeastern michigan when i talked to my municipal leaders or others iner the industry contamination of recyclables can occur when non-recyclables such as plastic bags are not sorted from recyclables or when food residue on recyclable plastic materials makes a nonrecyclable. ms. harrison what steps can wema take to ensure businesses and consumers know the quality of plastic feedstock that they are acquiring for making new products. >> i love this question it is really about how do we ensure recycle content is competing with virgin recycling is all about manufacturing it has toin compete on price, quality and on volume, manufacturers need to know that they can depend on recycled to be there when they need it, contamination i think

can be put into two buckets, one steps and the design of our product i mentioned labels, adhesive, we need thought that goes into how packaging is designed and i would encourage the committee to look at plastic iq.com it's a new tool of free tool that we designed with support from walmart to help suppliers align around common design challenges so that we know as consumers when we get something off the shelf it is in prime recycling condition and the second thing, the second bucket of work contamination condemns is in the household that challenge is when we can call this wish cycling when people cook that is recyclable and they put it into the bend there confused not knowing what it's about and doesn't have the heirs on it, that point of how do we engage the public is an

important one because it's not just awareness we know the public is aware of recycling, what we need to get to how do we engage them in the correct behavior of what to recycle on which day, education has been underfunded in our country consumers are concerned and confused and i think if we had design for the system with how we leverage the public will we will find a better outcome were doing work in communities right now we have a program called feet on the street where we partner with communities to make sure were addressing the key challenge of contamination for that city in that program to really trigger the problem then individual is making, the number one challenge to recycling that many people make, they are tryingei their best and they put all the recyclables in a plastic bag when they tie them up in a plastic bag in most places that

render them on recyclable by facilities that is the number one thing that we go after, i put it into design and consumer behavior. >> were educating the public you today, also just wondering how plastics in today's waste stream change since the development of identification codes from 30 years ago which are commonly identified on plastic packaging by a number one through seven in a triangle one of the things were looking at here today what additional researchers is needed for better plastic characterization and how could thater research yield standards and identification codes and mse anything to contribute on that i would love to hear from you as dr. whose research was speaking to this. >> quickly i would say those identification codes indicate the materials past not the

material future they do not automatically determine that something isto recyclable even f it has a one it doesn't automatically mean, it's a better research into how we communicate to the public with confidence that this was designed for the solution and the system and the system meets in the middle and the system can take this i think it would be a much needed solution but all turn over to doctor. >> i would agree the identification is critical to help with sorting but i think other systems are necessary to facilitate the sorting and we should also look at transferability of models that are successful we have very high

qualitys in terms of our recycle containers due to the redemption rate that we have here compared to other states that don'ter hae those, we have to look holistically at herso solution. >> which is part of what were symbolizing here today with a great panelist, i'm out of time i'm now going to recognize the gentleman from the nice state of florida he was right the beaches, i should mention gander's, there are certainly points of time in the year were my constituents are in florida or looking to get to florida, without mr. walt. >> take is a much mr. chairwoman, i mentioned during my visit during my opening statement, my visit to the loggerhead marine life center i sell the damaging impacts of micro plastics in our environment and food supply, do you think biodegradable plastics

would be beneficial, it seems it could be a bit of a game changer in addressing the challenge of micro plastic and if so what challenges to adopting more biodegradable plastics do you see? >> congressman thank you for the question. this is a challenging question because a definition of biodegradable that are present in biodegradable over what timeframe and under what condition. i firmly believe that biodegradable plastics will be a piece of theof plastic puzzle in that development of materials that can be assimilated by microorganisms and engineer environment such as industrial composting and places like that or if escape into the environment indiscriminately they could end up by integrating some lifetime, the issue becomes

how do we understand the fundamental process of biota gratian, over what time scale scand what condition that takes place, i think we want to be careful about plastics that are labels of biodegradable incentivizing leaving them in the environment that is one thing we have to be careful about, i i do think with compost infrastructure and proper understanding and education around this issue that biodegradable plastics would play a role in the futureic sustainable, one example as we spoke about before is in food contaminated plastics. for example if those plastics were compostable, they could go and compostable foodways provided the infrastructure was available so the answer is a little more complicatedte in nuance but i willwi end by sayig

it is a piece of the plastic puzzle, how we will solve it and it will play a role. >> thank you and the answer always seemed to be much more complex than most people including this committee fully appreciate. mr. baca we discussed that china has began the import of plastic recycling from process of the united states and many other countries. the claim is due to the poor quality of the plastic bundles being imported, do you agree and d.do you believe, do you agree d do believe china has other ambitions behind the recent ban, if so, what do you think they are and i just have to ask more broadly what would it mean for the u.s. if we were to completely cede leadership to china in advance recycling.

>> congressman thank you so much for that question and i 100% agree we should not be ceding leadership on the issue of recycling to any country. i think when you get to the issue of contamination the biggest challenge we have right now is a fragmented system where you have 9000 jurisdictions across the united states during 9000 different things, there is a very appropriate role for congress to develop a set of minimum standards that work to improve recycling access, recycling education, recycling outreaching collection, that will definitely streamline the processes to getting more plastics in all material into the system. when it comes to the issue of advance recycling the good news i want to share with this committee advance recycling is being built at a commercial scale the fundamentals that have guided the market development of advance recyclingti continue to changeo and there's tremendous breakthroughs in advance recycling that allow us to capture all plastic material turn them into virgin quality plastic and reuse them again and

again, there is a couple of examples, something that used to get your food that's recyclable because exhibits recycling, foam food containers is a great example of what the breakthrough is. the point is technology is not static it evolves over time and the work that this committeeee s doing and lighting the foundation to ensure global leadership is one i highly commend your work for. >> taking for that and i agree i think it's an appropriate role for congress and then also the pieducation piece, i tell you my own family would get confused on what is recyclable and what is not i'm an avid recyclable i hate the waste but it is difficult to figure out even from back and forth to d.c. in various places in florida i think those are appropriate roles and i look forward to looking withois this committee o move the ball forward, yield my time and with that we will

recognize our next member for five minutes of questioning, it looks like we might be moving to mr. buyer for five minutes of questioning, you are now recognized, pardon me, don were going to hold on you and were going to recognize my good friend from this great state of new york mr. baldock. >> thank you madame turn first things first, happy birthday and great to see your mom and the audience not the virtual setting but thee real setting since she had a major role to play in the celebration, the annual celebration we say thank you to her for delivering a great member of congress, i thank you for holding today's hearing and for your efforts to advance solutions to address our growing plastic waste problem today america's recycling faces

greater volumes of plastic waste with more complex and multi layer plastic products and never designed to handle even as the u.s. recycling market has grown more broadly our plastic harecycling system has kept pace and when the systems are overwhelmed we risk environmental damage hard to clean pollution and most important great danger to human health, we needs within bold action at both ends of this problem make an investment in recycling r&d was strong oversight of those programs and also focusing individually as oa society and as a government on the urgent need to reduce the amount of plastic waste that we generate in the first pace. when it comes to r&d several federal agencies carry out r&d and standard developer programs related to plastic recycling material substitute and data gathering. however, i was astonished to

learn there is currently no coordinated effort to facilitate multi agency collaboration to reduce plastic waste and improve recycling r&d, doctor what doou you think the role of the federal government should be in supporting crosscutting r&d and innovation necessary to address our plastic waste reduction and recycling challenges. >> that's an excellent question and clearly there needs to be coordination in terms of r&d through the federal government so we can most efficiently use our r&d resources to target the challenges andt bottlenecks in her system and i really recommend we develop the first characterization that you may have seen the diagram of the flow of plastics to use markets but some of the areas are incomplete we don't have data in certain areas to understand what is going into what system, i

first recommend that we do a more in-depth characterization of the different uses in end-of-life management strategy so we understand fully the problem and then the solution really needs to be looked at so that we can develop infrastructure that will deal with long-lived products like buildings and automobiles versus packaging, through a characterization it can then decide which type of material we want toer go after and what products until coordination is definitely key and i think starting out with an overall accounting ofnt the problem will facilitate better uses of resources.

>> thank you. >> doctor hilmar and concerned about the climate impact of plastic production which are primarily caused by the use of fossil fuel feedstocks what environmental benefits such as lower admission for production are associated with their work in developing alternatives to fossil fuel based plastics. >> thank you for the question, it's pretty clear that turning to renewable resources for plastics will be the future in the long run in the research associated with how to efficiently convert those materials fromma renewable resources that sequester co2 is really a high priority, the bottom line the ability to convert sugars to chemicals that we cannot ultimately use in the csmanufacture plastic requires fundamental research to support new technologies that stem from

that, you're competing with an industry that is very efficient and has many fnc's associated with the conversion of fossil resources. so we work on the center in trying to understand how to use renewable resources how to convert them efficiently in the molecules that have utility in the plastics arena, the basic research is coming along in more effort is needed to make it technologically and economically competitiveti with derived materials. >> the consummate with that i say welcome and thank you terry stevens, i yield back. >> the consummate you are the sweetest friend with that allow me too recognize my colleague from ohio who has been a great collaborator on this work mr. gonzales. >> thank you madame chair, happy birthday and thank you tour witnesses for being here today

and your expertise, i agree congress must get to work on t ways to accelerate battery recycling and reduce environmental impact and increase economic value and security of domestic resources and supply chain. recycling andd innovation recycling need to be a key part of addressing the climate challenge as mr. helmer discussed. it's a critical importance that we consider conference of government approach to spur innovation through r&d and coronation across relevant federal agencies on the work and that's why i was proud to join the chairwoman andth introducing the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act this congress and upon her leadership on this issue is important to recognize the unique role of the department of energy and its national lab and enabling next-generation research optimization advance recycling, mr. baca i want to start with you in your prepared remarks you describe doe in its national lab

how is the department of office of science uniquely positioned to conduct research to solve challenges in the space. >> congressman thanks so much for that question, let me start off by saying this all in regard to the comments about the climate challenge plastic overall have a much lower carbon footprint than any other material they have been critical in my statement to the vehicles and insulating our homes and the work that were doing with the department of energy international lab is focused on the ability to understand the lifecycle plastic materials and ensure that we understand the impact on the environment, that work is currently happening we've been working with a variety of the national laboratories and we work with the department of energy under plastic innovation challenge, the key thing this work is happening right now we are working with a leading scientiss of the world to examine and

research the best ways to recover reuse and recycle all of our plastic materials i commend the work the committee is doing in our industry is happy to be working with us there is a critical role for the department of energy and a critical role for the national labs to ensure that we study the best used for plastic recycling. >> thank you as a follow-up is anything that should be done to facilitate more effective use of doe's work by other stakeholders or other agencies and other mechanisms needed to promote more public-private partnerships through these programs? >> absolutely we could do more to promote private art shares many of us on thisy. meeting our organization collaborates with groups like the recycling partnership in the plastic waste partners to name a few to create a circular system, that is private public partnership is an excellent model in the sense of were able to capture more plastic and collaborate on solution and the work being done by doe in the national lab those

findings should further inform the work that we are doing so yes part of the work of the committee is to connect those dots to bring the sticklers together to solve the problem of plastic waste that will require a two medicine amount of collaboration, not when industry will solve it it will require collaboration across the entire chain and require collaboration with the scientists and engineers the national lab government, ngos and yes connecting those dots would be a very critical first step. >> ray, my final question for you there is sometimes false narrative about advance recycling, could you discuss how important advance recycling and innovative technologies to addressing the climate challenge? >> 100%. . . . technology at a commercial scale. one is building a plastic to plastic facility in tennessee that's going to cost $250

million. it's going to be critical because what it does is it takes difficult parts to if it takes very difficult parts to recycle plastics. for instance, a pouch that is manufactured today to keep your food fresh. that is light, requires less water to produce. it's easy to transport from a carbon perspective but it's difficult to recycle fromif an mechanical perspective.ho advance recycling takes those types of items and breaks them down to their building block and create version while the plastic that allows it to go into very demanding applications like through contact, pharmaceutical and medical and it will be key as part of that comprehensive strategy that the congresswoman from texas mentioned that all of the above strategy we need to solve the plastic waste problem. >> fantastic. thank you for that. thank you to ourth witnesses ags and to madam chair, and i yield back. >> with that we will now recognize mr. beyer from the commonwealth of virginia.

>> thank you, madam chair very much. i want to thank your mother for doing the hard work 29 years ago and giving birth to you. i'm glad she's here today on her birthday. i want to say i am very supportive of this act and i'm all in on the research and development, and to do believe there's better living through chemistry. but i also think the elephant in the room is why not last plastics? we seem to spend an awful long time talking about recycling and putting plastics together, but our colleague alan lowenthal from long beach has a banning single use plastic bill. there are no 69 countries that that have banned plastic bags. or at least a dozen that a band microbeads including in the united states and the uk. dr. keoleian, i know you are all about sustainability. are we not missing a big piece of this just by thinking about better ways to use less

plastics? make a very good poind observation. we really need to look holistically at solving our problems in terms of providing goods and services economically and sustainably. plastics do afford benefits of safety, protecting products. but we do really need -- we do a lifecycle assessment and look at the impacts of production, use, and retirement. and evaluate the total energy, we has gas emissions, and waste. and there are definitely opportunities today where we could substitute materials. use more durable solutions. and reduce the use of plastics. plastics clearly have a critical role in our society, but i think we could be smarter with substitutions and -- because if we just focus on recycling, we

could actually increase the proliferation of plastics and actually make recycling more challenging. and the volumes could go up, which means more resources. so, as you know, we are in a climate crisis. we need a different calculus about how we look at sustainable systems and solutions. and so i think it's really critical that when we evaluate innovations in recycling, infrastructure, we look from a lifecycle lens. and, you know, plastics are carbon intensive. there are other materials that are less carbon intensive but they do offer advantages. but you get these tradeoffs that occur and it's important to use a system's approach to address it. mr. beyer: yeah, sometimes just little things you see on capitol hill, many members will carry around the big 32-ounce or 64

ounce water bottles, which is a huge improvement over buying yet another water bottle a dozen at a time. ms. harrison, you have a background in plastics, among other things, which scares the dickens out of me. the great pacific garbage patch is twice the size of texas. that's one of overwhelm five major garbage patches in the world. i just read we have up to two million tons of plastics per year in the oceans and rivers. what are we going to do to address this? ms. harrison: i think it gets back to your first question. i agree that recycling will not solve this. recycling is part of a circular economy, but it is not the solution. recycling is a reaction. recycling only happens when there's a big enough pile that someone can turn into something new. if we wait for that pile to accumulate in the ocean, we have missed our opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place. yeah, i started off by studying turtles.

and a couple years ago, i was on a research ship that took corporate executives and actually my biologist, my lead biologist from college, she joined me on this trip, because i said, don't you want to join corporate executives in the middle of the ocean to see the plastics up front? and we jumped in the middle of the water. we jumped in the atlantic ocean 50 kilometers east of bermuda and we saw the microplastics. but we also saw mackerel, we saw fishing gear, we saw forks. if we wait for forks to be in the middle, we have waited too long. we have to talk about a system solution that takes into concepts -- that takes r&d concepts and marries them to economic. i love this conversation about cross agency collaboration. we must think about it from a system point of view so we prevent the problem, not just clean up the problems.

mr. beyer: thank you very much and i yield back, madam chair. chair stevens: thank you, and with that, allow me to recognize my friend and colleague, dr. baird, for five minutes of questioning. mr. baird: thank you, madam chair. and again, happy birthday. ranking member waltz and our witnesses, we appreciate you being here. and i appreciate ms. harrison mentioning hollywood, indiana, that makes outdoor furnitures out of detergent bottles. then just last week, i spoke to the e.r.i., which is the electronic recyclers international, a company located in my district, which specializes in electronics recycling. and while yes, this hearing pertains and focuses on the plastics recycling, i believe that some of the themes remain the same when we view recycling at a global level. and this is an issue that you mentioned in your testimony, dr. keoleian, the united states exports waste to developing

countries, which excludes both plastics and electronics waste. i discussed the national security and the counterfeiting which occurs from exporting electronics waste. but that is but one issue. and as such countries also present severe environmental harm by improperly disposing of these materials, that being plastics as well as the electronics, realistically, what's happening when such countries import these plastics, and is there anything we can be doing to help in the disposal and make sure it's handled properly? dr. keoleian? dr. keoleian: yeah, so -- one thing, just focusing on electronic waste, i know the g.a.o. did a study and showed that there is a lot of illegal

activity of exporting waste, hazardous waste. and so one activity that congress could do is strengthen the auditing and, you know, crack down more on the illegal activity because that is posing problems in terms of hazardous waste and how they're managed improperly in developing countries. so, and then we've talked about setting up the infrastructure here so we're not exporting it. i think we need to take responsibility, total producer responsibility, in terms of how our products are managed at end of life. and we can't rely on exporting t . there is a recognition we also want leadership in setting up the systems to be able to properly manage products like electronics to reduce risk.

so i think, one, accountability in terms of enforcement of the current regulations that we have on electronics waste that go a long ways. mr. baird: thank you for that. dr. hillmyer, in your testimony , you suggest biobase fuels, i'm changing direction a little bit, you suggest that biobased products would make for promising materials to use in places, some of the traditional manufacturing materials. and so, with my background, i'm interested in how agriculture might play a role in solving some of these issues and provide the raw materials for making alternative materials that would function for the same purpose. so, do you have any comments in that regard? dr. hillmyer: congressman, thank

you. absolutely. there is really -- i spoke about in my testimony biobased products and the idea that you would use annually renewable crops to generate not only new chemicals but incumbent chemicals that could be drop-in replacements for petroleum-based materials i think is an active and important area of research. one area that i think is important now is the ability to use non-nutrition biomass so that there is no disruption of the food chain. but, of course, it turns out it's a lot easier to process things like corn and sugar beets and other materials that have sugars that are more readily accessible to fermentation processes, for example. that basic research and that fundamental understanding of how to convert those biobased resources into both new chemicals and drop-in replacements is in need of more effort and more research to make these things technologically

viable. in the fullness of time, using, like i said nonnutritive biomass, is a really important goal for the industry. mr. baird: thank you. i see i'm out of time so i yield back, madam chair. chair stevens: perfectly on time. and with that, the chair's going to recognize dr. bill foster for five minutes of questioning. mr. foster: thank you, madam chair. mr. baca, first off, thank you for your shot out to argon national labs, not only because i represent them, but it's a perfect example, you know, the research you cited, of why this committee is committed on a bipartisan basis to doubling d.o.e.'s budget across the whole range of missions. it's one small but important part. my question to anyone that wants to try, what do you do with high performance plastics? how do you deal with plastics that have glass fibers for structural strength or color?

are there classes of really high performance plastics, high temperature epoxies and so on for which there is not going to be a realistic recycling scenario or -- what fraction of the current potential market is this? should we just focus on the generic plastics and acknowledge there is some classes, hopefully small volume, that are going to be really tough and we should for now give up on them? anyone want to take a stab? dr. hillmyer: i don't mind taking a stab, at least some aspect of it. i think you have an important point in that high performance materials, for example composite materials, certainly have challenges associated with how to recycle them. the contemporary research in this arena in the thermoset

arena is actually going on at the center for sustainable polymers is how are you able to reprocess these materials? thermosets are typically viewed as unreprocessable. but current research and dynamic exchange of covalent bonds allows for these materials to be reprocessed in ways that were not available before. so, while recycling, biodegradation, and other aspects of solving this waste dilemma are important i do think reuse and reprocessing of materials could play a role and may very well come along with the composite materials and fiberglass that's in there. i'll end by saying that, yes, these are a smaller portion of our plastics waste dilemma. i do not think we should ignore it, but i think there are more pressing issues, such as the

more common plastic packaging. mr. foster: does anyone -- how do you rebuild the future of this? are we going more and more to solvent type of recycling? what are the future technologies? or just do a really good job with chemical separation with robotics? what are the technologies that are going to end up being important in this? mr. baca: well, congressman, i'll take a shot at that. i think some of the work i talked about in regards to recycling is focused on plastic packaging. there is no doubt we can learn from how we scale it across other industries. we as a industry represent a variety of companies that do a variety of things in this space. one key area our company focused in on is helping create a low-carbon future by light weighting vehicles and making them more energy efficient. making them more energy efficient. we have been working, we've outlined a roadmap that deals with the issue of circularity in the automotive space and it's going to require a lot mor'

effort i work on this committee and by government agencies to really think about that r&d aspect of that because what we're doing right now is we are solving an issue from a carbon perspective but we now need to think about how we make these materials more sustainable and re-utilize them over and over and over again. i was speaking to a sustainability fellow at ford and even thinking about their vision although a bit with the electrification of cars and autonomous vehicles, for instance, those parts are valuable. they have high value that can be used again in the. there's no doubt more work needs to be done. my hope would be some of the work and breakthroughs of things like advanced recycling could eventually extend into some of these other applications. >> so it's come i think it's in germany where they actually have very serious requirements on recyclability for cars theiren manufacturing. is that a correct remembered stuff some story i've seen?

your talk about the dream of having cars that are assembled by robots h at the factories and then atse the end of their life they drive back to the factory and the same robots the putting together take them apart and separate them, meltdown the plastic part and cast them into new pieces. that serve as an ultimate in point. the germans i thought were actually making some requirements already on cars. >> i don't know of the top of my head. we could get that submitted for the record but your point is spot on, just what you said. if you think of a futuristic world in the manufacturing of vehicles, that vision you outlined is what i think we wholeheartedly subscribe to. the materialma is super valuable and has tremendous value. it's not waste. if we could capture that material, break it down to its building blocks and reuse it again that's not just good for the environment, it's a stable product. it reduce our reliance on natural resource and it's going to great circularity and sustainability across a variety of industries. >> and all the leftover parts

won't have motor oil sprayed all over it. i guess my time isot up so i'll yield back. s. and now the chair will recognize the congressman from michigan, peter meijer, for five minutes of questioning. mr. meijer: thank you, madam chair, and once again, on behalf of the michigan delegation, happy birthday. just wanted to again thank both our ranking member and our chair for hosting this hearing. and i think it's an incredibly important topic and one that in west michigan, we care deeply about. we have two landfills in our largest county. one of which is nearing the end of its lifecycle and i'm proud to say our county and local officials are looking at ways to turn it into a sustainable business park to recapture the value stream that right now is being disposed of.

and i want to also right now, appreciate the ranking member's remarks on the idea of the circular economy and what we can do to really close down some of those waste streams. and obviously, single use plastics is a main one. the plastics that are not getting recycled that are recyclable are also incredibly significant. ever since the 2018 national sword policy by china, we lost one of our most valuable output mechanisms and sorting mechanisms for dealing with that co-mingled but recyclable waste. we also have a very strong plastics industry and our third district that supports thousands of jobs. and chemical industry, auto manufacturing, and even in the package of breakfast cereals, battle creek in my district, cereal city, u.s.a. so plastics plays a vital role. i guess one of my questions first for mr. baca, as we are thinking about single use plastics and compostable

plastics coming onboard, and i know we've spoken about some of the difficulties of -- or just the contamination that can occur when compostable or biodegradable plastics are introduced into a recyclable plastic stream. i guess are there -- what are the opportunities to be shifting those single use applications into a biodegradable or compostable alternative? mr. baca: congressman, thank you for that question. and i think both of those are part of that all of the above solution that the congresswoman from texas mentioned here. i think the key point that i would mention regarding this, and this cuts across a variety of comments that were already made today. innovation is going to be what wins the day on solving this problem. not bans or more regulation. innovation on how we deal with compatibility. innovation of how we create a circular economy for how we use valuable material over and over

again. that is what circularitys what that will create is a low-carbon future that all of us want. because it would require us using less natural resources to create these products. so, to the specific point of your question, i think this goes back to the overarching theme what this committee is talking about today. more work is needed. we need to think and leverage the best of what we have, whether it's the department of energy, whether it's our national labs, whether it's the commerce department. all of these agencies play a very critical role in connecting the research spots to ensure science guides the expansion of things like biodegradability. research guides the things like compatibility. and collaboration continues to guide the work around circularity. >> thank you. dr. keoleian, i really enjoyed reading your testimony and it's good to welcome a witness from the great lakes estate. i should note your professorship at the university of michigan testing for peter wenke who was the son of west michigan and correctness of energy and

philanthropy into environmental causes. he coined the term a kind of ecology combining the econod ecology so very much a believer that we need to be caring for the environment but doing so in a way that is economically ultimately beneficial which i believe conservatism -- sorry, conservationism, using histi lance, how should congress be approaching that life cycle of plastic materials to have maximum benefit for the economy? >> in addition to looking at life cycle assessment of energy and greenhouse gas emissions we also look at lifecycle costs. oneit example we did a study on, for the state of oregon, on bottled water versus reusable systems.th clearly bears, using tap water and filling a container is going to be much more economical than using a disposable bottle. the energy savings and the waste

is significantly different. so wet need to be smart and really look at, we will look at solutions we do need to look at the economics. i believe we also need to look at certain regulations and standards because it's not just going to be innovation. i think it's critical we take an interdisciplinary approach and bring together the economics policy, technology, and behavior. >> thank you, madam chair. my time is expired and i yield back. >> great questions. the chair is not going to recognize the congresswoman from a nice state of north carolina congresswoman ross. >> make you very much, chairwoman stevens and help this is a very, very happy birthday for you. i also want to thank our witnesses for joining us today on thisan extremely important issue that affects people's everydayay lives. in my homees state of north

carolina we are one of the top plastic producers in the country. as of 2019 we were ranked in the top ten in the country in terms of number of employees in the plastics industry with over 38,000 employees. weti have also played an importt role in plastic waste reduction and recycling innovation. in 2009 when i served in the north carolina state legislature we were facing serious issues with letter and sea turtle deaths along the outer banks. one of the most pristine parts of her statement in response we passed a law that bans single use plastic bags in six counties along the outer banks. while this flow law was gey supported in those communities, it was repealed in 2017. in addition, we have researchers at north carolina state university in my district who have been involved in plastic waste reduction and recycling research. in addition to the company

previouslyn mentioned, one graduate of nc state college of textiles bill johnston went on to found a sustainable clothing company that converts plastic bottles in the fiber that is spun into yarn, knitted in the fabric and so into clothing. i focus a lot in my questions about the next generation because we're such a stem focused area of the country. to all of the witnesses i want to ask you how we inspired the next generation to get involved in s.t.e.m. fields, to be excited about recycling and not using plastic in the first place. we have seen so much leadership from the next generation about climate issues and about things like recycling. beyond teaching kids in schools,

how can we better encourage them to pursue education and careers like you all have? >> i would be happy to jump in, and as a graduate of a north carolina university, uncg, i'm happy to practice this research. my degree was in human ecology and natural resources, i would put this all together. that's what i want to look for as i'ms inspiring young people and young diverse people to be involved. when we think of how we engage kids into the space we often think about campaigns. we've all seen those. what we need is to spark the innovation of our youth intoso looking to the system solution we keep talking about. we can't just r&d are so fat. we can't just look for singular technology. we have to really think about paving from out of response to the problem to how do we prevent it from the first place, how do we know from the very concept of design whether it's ante advancd

plastic material as were just talking about or packaging. we know whether it's going to be linear, a landfill, or circular but it can become something else. that is what the partnership is doing to advance diversityom in this space, to bring young minds to think about it holistically. >> i'm going to move on to my next question so i can get another one in but if somebody wants to amplify, please do so. this one is for dr. hillmyer. last but department of energy announced investments of up to 14.5 million for r&d to cut waste and reduce energy use to recycle single use plastics. how did your research group and others working on chemical recycling technology integrate a sustainable chemistry or green approach with your research in order to design ways to minimize or neutralize any potential harmful byproducts of the chemical recycling process? >> thank you, congresswoman. we work hard on this, we call it

advanced recycling in the subset of chemical recycling, and really trying to understand the fundamentals of how you can take established plastics and ones that we design on purpose to be efficiently chemically recycle it. we commented on, about use of solvent in green chemistry ways that don't require a solvent that require things like maybe temperature or life that allow you to turn plastics that are useful in their everyday application efficiently back to the molecules from which they came using the principles of green chemistry. if we could do that those new molecules can then generate plastic that is the same benefit. >> thank you, madam chair. i yield back. >> great. with that were going to recognize mr. lamb, congressman from the nice state of pennsylvania, for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair. yes, we are so nice, so nice inm

fact, that on behalf of the whole state would like to wish you a happy birthday today as well. to our witnesses, thank you for hanging on this long. dr. hillmyer, i kind ofes wanted to pick up i think you are leaving off, which is that of course our jurisdiction on this committee really is to try to move forward the nation's research agenda and help answer kind of unanswered questions, particularly ones at a longer-term nature that individual businesses might find profitable to enter on the road. would you mind justd kind of summarizing or commenting on the state of knowledge about where we're going in composting and the breakdown of so-called biodegradable recyclables and plastics? and maybe give me a little bit more specific insight into, if there's two or three big questions that we can really

help answer, say in the next decade, what are a the? >> thank you, congressman. is this an area i'm quite passionate about and very interested in. i'll reiterate what i said earlier, isss this word while degradation of what timeframe under wha' conditions. this is where the basic research plays a key role is understanding exactly what happens, let sit in a daschle compost at high temperature and high humidity as opposed to maybe backyard compost or in the environment, and how to differentiate the chemistries and differentiate the fundamental processes that go on in those different environments so you can understand and predict the lifetimes of these materials in the environment. the second piece that's important is what did it break down to, and how do we understand we are not just generating, for example, smaller shards of plastic that are recalcitrant? so following it all the way through the breakdown process and understand both the physical phenomena and the chemical

phenomena are critically important. we have research into center that's trying to understand this fundamental processes. how do microorganisms break down what ultimate results from hydrolysis or biodegradation of compostable plastics. i do this again as a piece of the solution to plastic waste but it will come with infrastructure and education and understanding of what is meant by compostable and now the processes actually take place. this is important contemporary area of research. more research is needed to understand the design factors, which you might built into the plastic to have breakdown under certain conditions in efficient ways. i love the idea of a systems approach where it's designed molecules evaluateig performanc, end-of-life scenarios that allow a complete lifecycle to be understood at a very fundamental level. >> i very much appreciate that

and i think, the chair will will help us advance towards that goal. do any of our other witnesses want to answer my question in the minute 50 i have remaining of just clarifying the specific question that you like to see us help answer is the next decade or so? >> i'll say quickly that i would encourage this committee, when you think about composting, i very often hear people thinking about composting. when we begin to pivot to what else, with ask ourselves is the to-do list for making plastics compostablecs even longer? currently 4% of the is population have access to that commercial composting. that's significant less than have access to traditional recycling some want to make sure we are not pivoting to something because the current problem seems hard. i'd instead pulling back and saying how do we from the very concept of the idea make sure we

have a good solution. dr. keoleian? >> i would add we think composting is very positive. backyard compost or a compost in my house, i put that compost into my garden. it's the soil amendment. what would talk budget is really getting with later, avoiding the letter. it's a lost resource. this is plastics that has embodied energy in it and we're just dissipated into the private to deal with a litter problem. i think we have to look critically at what we d want to make compostable. so i think i get it back to holistic solutions. >> i really appreciate that. if we can get that chair woman's bill passed, it will certainly move it down the road and think the mets appreciate your presence and insights and madam chair, i yield back. >> thank you, and what a nice

note to begin to close the hearing out on. because it's true, we've got a tremendous piece of legislation, and this hearing, was the kickoff for this legislative session to really make sure that we are on the right track, and hearing from stakeholders from across the spectrum, with mr. baca in from the american chemistry council, that if you hurt inun his testimony, and i'l repeat it again, is very dedicated to the all hands on deck approach, and also bringing in the expertise that we need to hear from, to keefe harrison who just has a finger on the pulse of what'ss going on across the country.un and dr. marc hillmyer were feel like i could, you know, along with dr. keoleian, just wealth of knowledge and dedication both

with dr. keoleian at the reiki school who mr. maher reference was a hero and so dedicated to our stated mission compost site of the state of michigan. you know, dr. hillmyer, sometimes people confuse michigan minnesota but we know you're on the other side of the lake, a couple other sides of the lake. then we can debate it really is a land of many, many lakes. but we really are grateful for your dedicated research and youh time today, and where we find ourselves in this legislative sessionla is really, i think the tipping point at something tremendous if wee call today's hearing moving from staggering statistics, if you recall hearing me share that just 9% of our recycling, 9% of our plastics, is recycled. how do we increase that? how to even begin to think about

doubling that to sustainable systems? and assistance component, right, moving from staggering statistics to sustainable systems is important because we hear about the individual enthusiasm and the consumer enthusiasm, and even as ms. ross was referencing in her questions and what she seemed interdistrict in north carolina with individual entrepreneurs and business leaders. but we really do need a systems approach and this also comes as unique time as the united states is charging a path forward on our broader infrastructure as well. okay, it look like as i was filibustering here, i called it from another collect from the knife state of pennsylvania, congresswoman susan wilde has come in for questions. allow me to pause on my preamble and recognizer for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair. and i'm sorry to come in late. i'm juggling three committees thisg. morning, so we all know w that goes. i just want to keep it short but

i've been listening to us much as visiting as a possibly could because it's of interest, it's a topic of great personal interest to me. what i really just, i'll just throw this out there to dr. keoleian. a recent study concluded that large amounts of plastic would accumulate in the environment even if we use every currently feasible effort to achieve an 80% reduction in plastic solution i 2040. you and other experts agree that assigning materials for recyclability will be key to sustainable plastic waste reduction. what steps do we need to take to ensure coordination between product design and options for end-of-life plastic management? that's good to be my only question because i i know it's kind of a big, far ranging question. >> wonder the things i

recommended that we emphasize in terms of the r&d in terms of the investment and the research is that we had industry participate with the scientists, with government to look at what kinds of policies can help make innovations, you know, more implementable, or accelerate the implementation, and also even community partners. so we really need to look at co-creation of solution. i think that that would be really beneficial in terms of ensuring that we are going to coordinate between product design and end-of-life. so we need to bring the oems and make automobiles in with marx group, and also involve those that are responsible for end-of-life recyclingif infrastructure. so i think that

interdisciplinary approach and co-creation of solutionspo is important to her and the other is we really need to look at, you know, europe really helped push reducing the amount of waste in automobiles with their guidelines. it was mentioned about germany. well, they europe set guidelines that automobiles should reduce the amount of auto shredder residue, did not of waste. those kinds of policies can also help accelerate solutions that are technological, and so i think that's important as well. >> thank you. i have to say, and this come somewhat from, well, i had a personal experience not too long ago where i was on an island in the caribbean. i know that right click play the violin, right? that sounds so sad. but anyway, when of the things can it was a rustic eyed and one of the things that struck me, there were a lot of places in

the world that have tremendous amount of trouble moving the trash, quite honestly, because of being ocean locked. i understand those concerns. as the result i saw little to no effort to recycle because they just had trouble getting plain old trash off the island, , let alone dealing with plastics recycling. but it was tragic because here was in a beautiful place with just an abundance of plastic waste all over the place. and so i think we're going to have to get to a point where the manufacturers are looking at that end-of-life solution, that in the plastic life management where there's some way other than just, especially because this is such a global problem. and if we don't look at global solutions we are just never going to solve it. thank you very much for your input. thank you all.

this is been really very helpful for the parts that is able to participate in and listen to. i really enjoyed. thank you. madam chair, i yield back. >> excellent. well, congratulations to my colleague forll her three hearis and managing to make it in for this one because your voice and viewpoints are very importantico us, and look, we are going to bring the hearing to a close. we don't have any more questions. i do want to thank our science committee staff on both sides of the aisle. here in the committee room, and it is actually set up expertly with great professionalism. we were able to do this in a hybrid format as we start to kind of come back to the waygs things were, and that's never a light switch as we have been learning this pandemic, that we were able to achieve the success

and goal of this hearing. and, frankly, we are in a nice supreme court, as i was saying, to what's next, and were going to continue to lead the record open for two weeks for additional statements from members or additional questions that members may have of the witnesses. i know we are going to continue to draw down on the expertise of this, just great panel of witnesses. and so at this time the witnesses are going to be virtually excused. they are going to be excused, and hearing is now adjourned. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] >> today a review of vaping products with fda acting administrative janet woodcock and questions about under aged use of e-cigs and flavored versions and the dangers of vaping compared to cigarettes and marijuana use. watch the entire house oversight and reform subcommittee hearing today at six '05 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> for just a few myths we want to talk about efforts and actions at the white house this week. he covers the white house for the publication. good morning to you. >> thanks for having on. >> can we start with the decision by the president on this airstrike that was ordered yesterday? talk about it and justification the white house has given for it.t. this came in late sunday night.

the pentagon alerted the country to these airstrikes that the administration ordered, that the president ordered and the rationale given. they said these were defensive airstrikes on facilities housing weapons and ammunition, that were being used in attacks on american personnel in iraq by iranian-backed militia groups. they said these were defensive moves tied to those attacks on american personnel. certainly we would expect the president to address this if not today then certainly early this week. i expect the ministration to put out more details soon certainly transparency about these airstrikes is a big issue for congress, so i expect we will hear more from the ministration. late last night is when we first heard about these strikes. host: