i ask you to respond as promptly as you are able. his hearing is adjourned.

this hearing will come to order. without objection the chairs authorized to declare recess at any time be before i deliver my opening remarks i've wanted to note that today the committee is meeting both in person and virtually. i want to announce a couple of reminders to the members about the conduct of his hearing. first members and staff who are attending in person and are unvaccinated against covid-19 must stay masked throughout the hearing. unvaccinated members may remove their masks only during their questioning under the five-minute rule. members who are attending

virtually should keep their video feed on as long as they are present in the hearing. members are responsible for their own microphones. please also keep your microphones muted unless you are speaking. finally if members of documents they wish to submit for the record please e-mail them to the committee clerk whose e-mail address was circulated prior to the hearing. so good morning and thank you all for joining today's hearing and a special thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today. twose years ago i had the honor and the privilege of the -- since then much has changed but the problem of plastic waste and how to enable a circular economy for recycling continues. we only have to look to the past year and a half to see some of the important medical and safety functions of plastic. face shields, face masks another

personal protective equipment allows america's essential workers to be on our frontline of our nation's covid-19 response. disposable syringes are helping toto did deliver vaccine shots n arms all across the country. plastic can be designated to be rigid enough to use in a vehicle safety application durable enough to hold liquid products for years and flexible enough to keep our food fresh. plastic is also cheap to. fortunately the characteristics that make plastic convenient also make it difficult to recycle after it has been used. local plastic production increased from 2 million tons per year in 1950, we remember plastic, plastic, plastic to 400 million tons annually in recent years. what's more if current trends

continue plastic production is projected to quadruple by 2050. there is no one-size-fits-all solution here but what weiz do know and where we want to start is in reducing and reusing and recycling starkly we have not done the best job of recycling. we recycled less than 9% of our plastic waste despite all the campaigns pursued across the country. for morere than 20 years the u.. has shipped their plastic to international markets to be recycled. when one of the major markets closed in 2018 items collected for recycling sad and warehouses because cities across the nation didn't have a local recycler that could process the bales p f plastic which were too often highly contaminated. unfortunately our community faced t a choice of incinerating

wing or dump them in landfills. well economics and other factors led to the current pollution crisis part of the solution was to invest in research to reduce plastic waste and improve domestic recycling infrastructure capabilities. this past earth day was proud to introduce the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act alongside my colleague from ohio congressman, anthony gonzalez. the bill calls on the federal government to develop a strategic plan for plastic waste reduction and directs the office of science and technology policy to establish a program to leverage the expertise of federal science agencies academia scientific associations state and local government and the private sector. this bill will support research and international standards developmentde for innovative

sustainable solutions that create a world leading u.s. industry and plastics recycling. how to design last takes to be recyclableti upcycling to high-value products minimize environmental impact of plastic waste and recycling a on our climate. as we improve plastic waste management and prevent plastic from entering or air or soil and ocean. finally this legislation was support them measurement science need to make technologies more efficient in upping standards for characterizing the multilayered plastic materials used today. no one solution will completely solve plastic aleutian rather it will take multiple efforts. the research supported in this bill can drive innovation and

innovation is at the heart of the industry and manufacturing that creates jobs. i look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses as her committee explores challenges and opportunities for adopting a sustainable plastic waste production. therefore yield to mr. will for his opening statement i would like to enter into the record two letters of support for the plastic waste reduction and recycling act from the american chemical society and the national league of cities. the chair now recognizes mr. waltz for an opening statement. >> thank you madam chairman forgive my opening statement i would like to wish you a happy birthday. and i share your passion for the topic. i'm enough of her cycler and my 17-year-old daughter keeps me on track in that regard so good morning and thank you for holding today's hearing and it's

good to be in the hearing room with you and i look forward to examining emerging technology and plastics and recycling project also like to thankec our witnesses for appearing before ther subcommittee and sharing their expertiseit with us. as we take a step back i want to note in the 20th century the united states was a leader in the development of plastics. we were evolution eyes the world by making material wealth widespread and attainable like never before. however our u.s. recycling infrastructures fail to keep up with the booming plastics market. in 2018 the u.s.. >> 36 million tons of plastic as the chairwoman noted however that domestic recycling industry only repurposed a .5% of it. america has a new opportunity to lead in the development of the

circular economy of last takes an economy thatt produces, recycles and reuses materials to reduce costs and waste. investments in research and development r in sustained materials and recycling will help the marmot in the u.s. economy prefer example with advanced recycling tools and technologies we can fully repurposed plastic without needing to harvest any new resources in essence we can turn waste into a marketable commodity and the economic potentiale here according to report by the american chemistry counsel advance plastics recycling could support over 38,000 u.s. jobs and nearly penned a -- 10 billion in u.s. economic output. today posix are integral to our daily lives that we cannot ignore their impacts on the environment. my district in northeast florida we are blessed with a coastline

of the main focal point of our lives and of our economy. moving from plastic waste to plastic reuse insurers the protection of florida's pristine beaches which many on this committee like to visit and floridians economy that rely on healthy coastal ecosystems. i recently had the real pleasure to visit the loggerhead marine life center in jupiter florida which was amazing to see the research and the marine life that they are helping their but it was also very disturbing to see the amount of microplastics that are appearing in our ocean food supply. it was staggering in its dangerous and we absolutely neeg to take action. i believe that using innovative methods to bolster and optimize their domestic plastics recycling would not only

preserve the environment but also avoid costly regulation and its unlike the plastic or vision in the green new deal. additionally as demonstrated over the last year our national security is at risk as long as we are dependent on foreign nations particularly the chinese communist party for essential commodities or services. america's clean energy future requires a reliable and stable supply of critical minerals. my build the american critical mineral packed addresses the issue of america's reliance on foreign nations to obtain critical minerals. i'm pleased that a provision of the legislation was included in the act recently passed it when it comes to recycling the u.s. cannot remain -- media reports regarding china's 2018 plastics importation restriction highlighted china never exit

disposed of plastics properly. secondly we should not become reliant on china for yet another critical service especially when there's untapped economic gain to be had here at home. as we looked innovation to solve major challenges facing our nation just so we are doing here today we have witnesses from academia and industry who are working on plastic recycling including chemical recycling robotics artificial intelligence and i look forward to having a productive conversation. innovation in these areas will ensure a better world for our children and grandchildren. thank you madam chairman iil yid back think you and the chair now recognizes the chairman -- the chairwoman of the full committee chairwoman johnson for an opening statement. >> good morning. and thank you chairwoman stevens

for holding today's hearing and happy birthday. countries across -- across the world are looking for ways to reduce plastic waste and i appreciate the fact that you chairwoman stevens and congresswoman -- support research and development act of cities to help reduce plastic waste. communities across the country including my district of dallas texas are trying to find solutions to deal with the increasing levels of plastic waste. .. waste was the third-largest source of municipal solid waste in the united states. in that year in that year alone, we

generated 35.7 million-ton of plastic waste. recycled 3 million tons, combusted 5.6 million tons and put 27 million tons of plastic and waste landfills. these statistics make it imperative to support research that can help us move forward in a sustainable way. experts agree that no single solution with the crisis. we must have an approach which we understand variance within the cycling system and the potential solution bleached and data gap we need to fill. also critical to understand

the need of the standard development and new assessment models to help us achievebl sustainable systems. collaboration will be key between federal agencies, state, and local governments. academia, the private sector and international partners. today's hearing is very important. at the step we are taking with it is the achieving working toward sustainability goals for our environment. i look forward to thisor discussion. i think you and yelled back. >> thank you madam chair. if there are members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your statements will be added to the record at this point. also at this time i would like to introduce our witnesses. our first witness is missing

keith harrison. she's a chief executive officers of the recycling partnership and national nonprofit dedicated to protecting the planet by affixing recycling and activating s a circular economy throughout the united states. she is an international speaker environmental author engaging companies and making measurable lasting change in communities. under her leadership the recyclingpa partnership has grown significantly engaging more than 70 funding partners in reaching half of american households. our next witness is dr. mark hill meyer. he is the director and principal investigator of university of minnesota center for sustainable, he joined the department of chemistry faculty at the university of minnesota in 1997 asa currently the ninth presidential endowed chair in chemistry at the

universities where his research focuses on the synthesis and self-assembly of multifunctional polymers. doctor hill meyer served as a director for the journal from 2018 and has been editor and chief since 2018. our third witness is doctor gregory kee olein. he is the peter emma wedged professor of sustainable systems the university of michigan andto serves as a director of the center for sustainable systems pretty also holds appointments as a professor in the school for environment and sustainability in engineering part his research focuses on the development of lifecycle models and sustainability metrics to guide the design andd improvement of products and technology. our final witness is mr. joshua baca. he is the vice president of the plastics division at the

american chemistry council. he viscerally oversees strategic programs to advance a science -based policy agenda, touched national outreach and sustainability on behalf of america's leading plastic makers. he also leads industry initiatives and fosters multi- stakeholder dialogue around helping and plastic waste by creating a more circular economy. as our witnesses should know, you will each have five minutes for your spoken testimony, your written testimony will be included in the record for the hearing. when you have all completed your spoken testimony we will begin with questions. each member willem have five minutes to question the panel. we will start with ms. harrison's opening testimony. >> madame chairwoman and hemembers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity t to speak with you about this important topic. as you know i'm the ceo of the

recycling partnership and we are a national nonprofit that works with companies, communities and policies to strengthen the u.s. recycling system but you may remember recent campaign in d.c. to boost recycling. that was an example of the type of grants that we give an how we thousands of cities across the county and across the country. the recycling partnership is designed to bring together public and private sectors because without coordination, recycling will never deliver the solutions that we aller nee. recycling is when something old because something new again. we need to ensure that is by plan and not just by chance as is the current case. we are here today to talk about how to execute that plan. a shared vision for the future. one of a circular economy moving away from eight linear economy will retake raw materials from the planet, make stuff out of it just to bury all of that value back in

the ground after a single use it. committee members recycling is so much more than just putting things in a recycling bin. it's really about stronger methods for manufacturing. but there is a hitch, as many of you have heard recycling faces barriers that he needs help in overcoming. that is why we are here today. in fact the recycling partnership just wrote a report you may be interested in. it is called paying it forward. how investing in recycling will payw dividends. it outlines how to fix the u.s. recycling system and deliver rewards to the environment and the economy. now, when it comes to plastics, technology has an important role to play in delivering that better system. rnd can help us answer important questions like how do we better design plastics products to meet the demands

of the infrastructure? things like labels, inc., adhesive, they make m a big difference in determining if something is truly recyclable. similarly, how do we make sure improvements of the infrastructure are aligned with all of the innovation of what is coming into the system, what is being designed. how can we develop standards to make sure businesses across the country know what quality of recyclable feedstock they are getting. and exactly how can we make sure recycled content supply is available for u.s. assistancere. like a businesses and all of your states, there is unified north carolina turning old water bottles into recycle, making indoorin outdoor furniture out of detergent bottles. and vision in california capturing ocean bound plastics and producing feedstock for shampoo and soap bottlesks are companies in illinois and

aroma and taxes all turning bottles into new bottles. so why does this matter to this committee? things then should be top of mind for a discussion today. system solution, scale, and speed. rnd that focuses on those three things matter most. technology only helps if it is part of a system. what is not needed? one off technology, silver bullets individual products that don't add up to systems change. each one of those technical barriers in order to become profitable we need research to help create a circular economy, not just by chance but by plan. we commend this committee for its attention to plastics and

i am grateful for the opportunity to testifye today. the recycling partnership looksar forward to working with you on solutions that create jobs, protect our planet and our people, thank you. >> thank you. now we will hear from dr. hillmyer. >> thank you chairwoman stevens, ranking member lucas and to the members of the subcommittee rate thank you for the invitation to provide testimony today's hearing. it's quite an honor to have this opportunity to speak with you today. i'm a professor of chemistry the university of minnesota and a director of the national science foundation center for sustainable policy which is chemical innovation had courted here att minnesota. polymers are the molecules in plastics and i worked in the o field of walmart science is my time as undergraduate researcher at the university of florida. my phd in chemistry and california's technology. the beginning of the professor of chemistry in, i worked in areas of sustainable and much

of my research today in connection with sustainability. as a director of the center for 2009 i have led numerous research efforts and manage brought research portfolios focused on sustainable polymers. i really have a passion for advancing sustainable polymers through basic research endeavorsng that enable economy for future generations. the society depends on plastics every day in nearly all establish, new emerging high and low tech applications we are faced with a a crisis, the conveniences and efficiencies of modern materials comes at a cost. moreover nearly all the plastic that's produced globally every year is derived from non- renewable resources thus contributed to the depletion of finite by earthbound about plastics recycling and chasing errors indicator on plastic bright and very effectively

recycled. to make matters worse, most plastics are used for short period of time for example packaging or disposable service where and immediately disposed of indiscriminately. that plastic material is lost waste is generated. the micro plastics derived therefrom and up in her landscapes and waterways causing environmental and ecological damage. the resulting negative impact to the food chain in ultimate health is of concern. using lasix and the environment cause damage to ecosystems is simply unsustainable. however, we all need plastics. these are markable materials it's difficult to imagine modern society without them. renewable application. theth other contract is these

are generally available at very low cost. the performance to price ratio is about as high as it gets. we can argue need plastic we don't eat all plastic. certainly unnecessary plastic materials permeate our society as it will play an important role in a sustainable polymer future. there are some places we simply used to muchla plastic. have a major change that may produce, use, dispose of plastics. the goal of zero plastic solution is a lofty but necessary one for sustainable plastic future preacher realizes vision there's many interwoven factors these include policy initiatives, improved recycling practices, other end-of-life infrastructure and industry adoptionon sustainable alternatives for current plastic products, packaging and processes. i'm here today to emphasize basic and fundamental research is sustainable polymers is and will continue to be essential to a strong foundation for which newt sustainable technologies can be built.

this is where government industry private foundation support critically important roles. basic research and sustainable polymers aims to uncover the underlying principles associated with for example, efficient with chemical and rate screen processes to incorporate thosese chemicals to advanced polymeric structures and how to design materials for viable sustainable end-of-life scenarios post use without positively contributing to a future. this important research aimed at adding f fundamentals revealing what is possible for sustainable polymers is decades behind work andec nonrenewable fossil derived non- degradable practically non- recycling materials to dominate today's landscape. significant efforts support new initiatives are imperative for future generations to enjoy the benefits of plastics will simultaneously eliminating their negative consequences. in my written testimony provided overview of research efforts e carried out in the national science foundation center for sustainable polymers with broader research

needs in the arena. thank you again to testify today paired truly honored to be your table to share my thoughts and visions for sustainable polymer future look forward to answering questions >> thank you the honor is all ours. from that will hear from doctor killian. >> thank youai chairwoman stevens and ranking members and all the otherhe members of the subcommittee. i service director of the centers for sustainable systems at the university of michigan and professor in the school for environmentalro sustainability and the department of civil engineering. my research focuses on the development of lifecycle models and the sustainability metrics to design products and technology. our center briefly developed the first comprehensive characterization of plastics used a resin type across the u.s. economy.

observation recommendations based on this and other plastic sustainability research with industry ranging from milk packaging to building insulation. the plastics waste crisis is more than a packaging waste problem. two thirds of the plastic put into use in the u.s. went into markets other than packaging including consumer products, furniture, electronics, transportation and building. each with unique challenges and opportunities. less than 8% of the plastics retiring these products are recycled. also pull technical most the thermal package with high recyclability actual low recycling rates can be traced to inexpensive emergent needs stock with quality issues. plastic content e-waste assessment 20 -- 33% in commercially viable mechanical recycling system cannot handlevi the current volume and diversity of plastics.

theses increasing amounts of plastic for piping, siding, trim, composites as well as insulation. recovery is extremely challenging given building demolition produces next waste with low fractions of plastic. plastics wealth and transportation sector primarilyra due to effort specialized that residents of four per plastic or covering is challenging. thirty-nine different plastic types are used to make cards. separation technologies are very intensive and the cost toll separate, clean, collect often exceed that of virgin plastic part especially low oil and naturall gas prices. systems analysis tools are necessary to overcome these challenges. first, research is needed to fillfi in gaps in plastics material flow. improved characterization will

facilitate coordination between product design manufacturing and material recovery efforts. the greatest innovation. there needed to guide innovation and robust cost-effective solutions. lifecycle assessments of plastics using products with trade-offs and guidance improvements. they are necessary to avoid burden shifting and promoting of less environmentally sustainable alternatives. third exercise enter just a yard for plastic waste solutions. at the core the current plastics waste crisis in economics problem. the sustainable solutions are effective when there is alignment between technology, market policy, and behavioral drivers. interdisciplinary research brings other engineers and colleges, condos, policy analyst, behavioral sciences and achieve convergence and robust solutions more quickly. also implementation can be

accelerated when academics, industry government partners create solution put forth it should product beyond recycling. i strongly encourage the broadening of the research scope to develop solutions that can avoid or limit generation of waste. these strategies include the materialization, material substitution, surface life suspension of projects reuse and remanufacturing would fifth, developed a guide for r&d coordination across agency. this can help set research priorities and avoid research duplication, given the wide array of composite types used for the wide range of plastic applications, each with varying lifetime. finally plastic waste production collisions reduce carpet emissions. basing a carbon emergency climate emergency patronage and prioritize technological plastic waste reduction innovation that create solutions to accelerate

greenhouse gas emissions to zero. in conclusion solutions to plastic weights crisis will require major transformation to systems or technology, community engagement, and policy innovation. technological innovation recycling alone will not be sufficient. i fully support the goals of the committee's legislation help my systems analysis phase recommendations help strengthen programming and implementation. appreciate the opportunity to share my perspectives and welcome your questions, thank you very much fork your attention. >> thank you very much and i will hear. so that good morning. let me first start off by thanking the subcommittee for holding this important hearing today. want to commend the chairwoman for michigan for leadership on this issue. her pragmatic approach in driving actions and her collaborative style of bring stakeholders together to solve big challenges we face as a nation. the american chemistry council

plastics division is pleased to provide testimony to the subcommittee. our members, are the leading producers of modern plastic used to make countless consumer and durable goods. those are used in a variety of application innovations and improve the quality of our lives, our environment, and our economy. encourages passage of the bipartisan plastic waste reduction recycling research active passes will direct federal government resources to improve the global competitiveness of u.s. plastics recycling and ensure u.s. leadership in plastic waste reduction and recycling research. we also capture the value of used plastics during enhanced research and development. and create standard, tools and technologies necessary to modernize and expand today's recycling systems. finally will accelerate the research and development for advanced recycling technologies. our members are deeply committed to creating a

circular economy for plastics and ending plastic waste in the environment. plastics contribute to sustainability goals which help protect the american environment for future generations. plastic waste is not. waste in the environment including plastic waste is never acceptable. weve are eager to take actions and solve this problem for that's when 2018 americans plastics makers had to emissions economy goals paired by 2030, one 100% of u.s. plastic packaging will be recyclable or recoverable. and by 2041 100% of u.s. plastic packaging will be reuse, recycle, or recovered. last year were we release a roadmap to reuse which outlined a vision and a set of actions to mobilize the entire plastics values to achieve these goals. our industry has worked to grow the circular economy for all plastics by implementing a roadmap. since july of 2017, our

industry has invested nearly $6 billion to grow plastics, recycling and the united states. most of it in advance recycling technologies. while traditional recycling technology played important role in plastics recycling, they do faced important limitations. newer comic cutting edge technology is known as advanced recycling complements these traditional systems by picking up where they leave off. and enabling communities to recycle significantly more in greater quantities of plastics. recycling technologies are innovative, manufacturing processes that fundamentally transform thehe chemical structure of post used plaidse back to the basic chemical building blocks. these are the raw materials used in making emergent quality plastics they enable more plastics conserving natural resources and help her local jobs and economies.

momentum for exams recycling is excelling across united states ands. the plastic researchable help sustain the momentum. globally recognized immature recycling enterprises are making significant commitments and building infrastructure on a commercial scale. technologies have evolved and created new technologies. can create virgin quality packaging critical for demanding more from applications such as food grade and pharmaceutical packaging. there is a significant and growing for recycle projects driven by company commitments and consumer demand for using more recycled plastic and products. fourteen states have enacted legislation to update their existingte laws. some companies are more properly brig-their deployment of advanced recycling technologies. first wave of advance recycling is achieving

third-party validation through certification but we believe it the of approaches and commitments product weights in the fireman's solvable and collective actions by government, industry, nonprofits and ngos will make america more sustainable. the stakes are high. plastics are critical to modern society from reduced carbon emissions to sealing and insulating our homes and buildings, to delivering essential healthcare, preserving food and contributing to an overall higher quality of life. when told the subcommittee. the pre-should thehe opportunity i yield myto time back to the chairwoman perspective we've got a great group here. this is making for a very exciting hearing. at this point were going to move to our first round of

questions a chairsof going to recognize herself contamination of recyclables is a major crosscutting challenge to the u.s. recycling system producing this in my own district inmi southeast michigan when i talked to my municipal leaders or others inn industry. not recyclables food residue in recyclable ms. harrison, what steps can we take to ensure plastic feedstock i love that question how do we make sure recycled content is competing? recycling is all about

manufacturing. it has to compete on price, on quality, and on volume. manufacturers need to know they can depend eight to be there when they need it. so b contamination i think can be put into two buckets, one misstep of the design of the product for dimension labels looking at plastic iqs that come it's a new tool a free tool designed with support from walmart to help suppliers align around common design. so that we know, as consumers, will be get something off the shelf it is in prime recycling condition. then the second thing or it comes in is in the household. that challenge is baume can sometimes call recycling. on sylvia's hooked it's

confused, not really knowing what it is about does not have errors on it. how do we engage the public is a really important one. it is not just awareness we know the public is aware of recycling. how do we engage them in the correct behavior of what to recycle on which day? it's been underfunded and this. they are concerned and confused. with how we leverage the public well, we will find a better outcome. we are doing work in communities rightes now. we partner with communities to make sure we are addressing the key challenge of contamination for that city. and that program to really trigger the problems in

individual is making per the number one challenge to recycling as they are trying their best. they put all this recyclables in a plastic bag with a tie them up in a plastic bag that reynolds and on recyclable that's the number one thing we go after. spirit put it in designing consumer behavior at >> we are educating the public here today. and also, just wondering how plastics in today's waste stream have changed since he development of the resin identification code some 30 years ago which is commonly identified number one through seven and a triangle. how can that research yield standards and identification codess. anything to contribute on

that i would love to hear from you as well, who need to be speaking to this. spermatic identification codes indicate the materials past not the materials future. they do not automatically even if it has a one it does not automatically mean. how they can communicate with confidence for the system and they meet them in the middle the system can take this. i will turn it over bread spermatic identification is critical to help with sorting is to facilitate the sorting, they should facilitate

transferability. as you know about the state of michigan we have a bottle bill. quality in terms of our recycled containers due to the redemption rate compared to other states that don't have those. we have to look holistically at the solution bread spermatic also symbolizing the great panelists. i am out of time. i'm not going to recognize nice state of florida who is right for those beaches, us michiganders maybe not at this time were racing to wear my constituents are in florida looking to get to florida. so with that. >> thank you so much chairwoman. doctor hilmar i mentioned during my visit during my

statement visit to the loggerhead marine lifee center. in the micro plastics in our environment food supply. do think a biodegradable plastics to be beneficial? it's a bit of a game changer in addressing the challenge of micro plastics. what other do you see? strict thing to further question. this could be a challenging question with biodegradable are present. biodegradable peace of the plastics puzzle and that materials that can be assimilated by microorganism. such as industrial composting

and places like that. thisis invite in discriminant leak could end up biodegrade in by some lifetime. how do we understand the fundamental processes over what timescale? they're labeled as a biodegradable and incentivizing i do think with proper compost infrastructure under this issue. should play a role in the future. one example would be in plastic. so for example there go

incompressible foodways provided the infrastructure was available. with a more complicated nuance. and how will play a role paired spermatic the answer is always seem to be much more complex than most situation most people fully appreciate. we discussed china has banned the import of plastic recycling from the united states and other countries. the claim is that it's due to the poor quality of the plastic bundles being imported. do you agree, do you believe, one, do you agree? and is trying to have other behind the recent man? if so what you think they are?

what would it mean for the u.s. if we were to completely see leadership advance recycling. >>, congressmen think is so much for that question printed one 100% agree with you. we get to the issue of contamination the biggest challenge we have is a fragmented system 9000 jurisdictions drink 9000 different things. i think is a very appropriate role for congress to develop a set of minimum standards that work to root improve recycling access, recycling education, recycling collection. that will definitely streamline the processes getting more plastics and material into the system. the good news own to share with this committee ast it's being built at a commercial scale for the fundamental that have guided continue to change.

have tremendous breakthroughs that allow to capture all plastic materials, turn them into urgent quality plastics use them again and again and again. a pouch something used to get your food that's not recyclable because of a breakthrough band recycling. food containers is another breakthrough. the point is this is not static when i highly commend your work for prospective gift that i agree. i think that is an appropriate role for congress. but then also the education peace. i can tell you my own family we get confused on what is recyclable, what is not. i hate the waste butte it is difficult to figure even going from d.c. and various places

in florida. think those are absolute appropriate roles i look for to working with this committee to move the ball forward. i yield my time. >> with that, we are going to recognize our next member for five minutes of questioning. it looks like we may be moving to mr. buyer for five minutes of questioning. you are now recognized. all right pardon me, sorry. [laughter] we are on the screen. you're going to hold you and recognize my good friend from the great state of new york. >> thank you madam chair. first things first, happy birthday. it's great to see your mom in theth audience that the virtual setting but the real setting pre-shedha a major role to play in the celebration the annual celebration we sent thank you

delivering a great member of congress. thank you for holding today's hearing and for your efforts to advance solutions to address our growing plastic waste problem but today america's recycling system is greater volumes of plastic waste with more complex and multilayered plastic products then was ever designed to handle. even at the u.s. recycling market has grown or broadly plastic recycling systems have not kept pace. we risk environmental damage, hard to clean pollution and most important great danger to human health related swift and bold action at both of this problem, making investments was strong oversight of those programs also focusing individually as a society and as a government to reduce the amount of plastic waste that we do indeed generate in the first place. when it comes to r&d several federal agencies carry out r&d inan standards programs with

material substitutes in data gathering. however is astonished on this currently no coordinated effort to facilitate multi agency collaboration to reduce plastic waste reduce recycling r&d. what do you think the role of the federal government should be in supporting cost cutting r&d and innovation to address the plastic waste reduction and recycling challenges. >> that is an excellent question. clearly there needs to be coordination in terms of this governmentfederal so that we can most efficiently use ourur r&d first sources to target the most significantt challenges and bottlenecks in our systems. i really recommend we develop this characterization the diagram of the fall of plastics in the economy used

market end-of-life. but some of the areas are incomplete. we doer not have data in certain areas to understand what residents are going into what system. i first recommend we really do more in-depth characterization of the different resin and uses an end-of-life management strategy so we understand fully the problem. then the solution really needs to be looked at so that we can develop infrastructure that will deal with long live products like buildings, automobiles versus packaging. i think through a characterization can then decide which type you want to go after what and products so coordination is definitely key.

starting out withwi an overall accounting of the problem will facilitate better use of resources. >> thank you, doctor hilmar very concerned about the climate impact of plastic production which are primarily caused by the use of fossil fuel feedstocks. what environmental benefits such as lower emissions from production are associate with your work in developing alternatives to fossil fuel based plastics? >> thank youu for the question. it iss pretty clear turning to renewable resources for plastics will ultimately do benefit in the long run for the research associated without efficiently for any renewable sources, that sequestered co2 is really of high priority. the bottom line is, the

ability to convert sugars from plants to chemicals that we can ultimately use in the manufacture of plastics, it requires fundamental research to support new technologies that stem from that. you are competing with an industry that is very efficient. and has many efficiencies associated with allit resources. we work on the center trying to understand how to use renewable resources, how to convert them efficiently in the molecules that have utility in the polymer and plastics arena. the basic research is coming along. but more effort is needed both technologically and economically competitive with derived materials. backlink is so much and with that i say welcome maria, thank you chair stevens i yield back. to make thank you so much you are really the sweetest friend. with that, allow me to it

recognize my colleagues from ohio who has just been a really greatat collaborator on this work, mr. gonzales. >> thank you madam chair happy birthday. and thank you to our witnesses for being here today and for your expertise. i agree, congress must get to work a ways to accelerate innovation and plastics and battery recycling, producing environmental impact of their consumption increased economic value of domestic resources of supply d chain. recycling innovations and recycling, need to be a key part of addressing the climate challenge. as mr. hill meyer just discussed for its critical importance we consider a comprehensive government approach to spur innovation through r&d and cross relevant agencies on the work. that is most proud to join the chairwoman and introducing the plastics waste reduction recycling act that is congress and applaud her leadership on this issue. it is also important to recognize the unique role of the department of energy the

national labs enabling next generation optimization and advanced recycling. i want to start with you, and your prepared remarks you described accs work with doe at the national labs. so the question is, how's the department of energy office of science uniquely positioned to conduct research to solveso challenges? >> thank you so much for that question. we start off by saying this, when the claimant jumped first off, plastics overall have a much lower carbon footprint than anyth material per they've been critical as i mentioned in my statement and insulating our homes, some of the work we are doing with the department of energy international labs really focusan on that ability to understand the lifecycle of materials. ensure we understand its impact on the environment. that work is currently happening. we've been working with a variety of national laboratories work at the

department of energy, the key thing is this work is happening right now. where work with him the leading scientist in the world to examine best ways to recover the plastics material. i commend the work the committee is doing. our industries happy to be working with this parade is a critical role for the department of energy also a critical role for national labs to ensure we study the best uses for plastic recycling. >> thank you. as a follow-up is there anything that should be done fato facilitate more effective use of doe's work by other stakeholders or other agencies? and are there mechanisms needed to>> promote more public-private partnerships to these programs? >> absolutely. we can always be doing more to promote more public-private partnerships many are collaborate with partnerships and aligns plastic waste close loop partners to create a

circular system here, that private public partnership is an excellent model in the sense we are able to capture more plastic and collaborate on solutions for the working done by the national labs for instance those findings shouldd further inform the work we are doing print so yes part of the work the committee can do is connect those dots to bring the stakeholders together to solve the problem of plastic waste is going to require tremendous amount of cooperation. not when industry isnoen going o solve it for is going to require collaboration across the entire plastics value chain.ac going to require collaboration with scientists and engineer the national labs government, ngos, so yes connecting those dots would be very critical first step for that work. >> rates. my final question for you, sometimes there are false narratives about advancedut recycling. could you discuss how important advanced and

technologies will be in addressing the climate challenge? >> one 100%. advanced recycling is a critical component to solving the plastic waste challenge. we are developing recycling technology on a commercial scale paid one of our member companies is building a plastics facility in tennessee that's going to cost about $250 million. it is critical because what advanced recycling does, it takes very difficult parts to recycle, take for instance a pouch that's manufactured today to keep foodda fresh, that requires less water produced, it's easy to transport from a carbon perspective but is very difficult recycle. advanced recycling takes those types of items, breaks them down to the chemical building block and creates a virgin quality plastic that allows it to go into very demanding more from applications with food contact, pharmaceutical and medical, advanced recycling is going to be key as part of that comprehensive strategy that the congress one from texas mentioned. all the above strategy we need to solve the plastic waste problem pates may think thank

you vent -- thank you tour madam chair in the yield back respect with that we will now recognize mr. bier from the commonwealth of virginia basement thank you met and chair very much. i want to thank your mother for doing the hard work 29 years ago and giving birth to you. i'm glad she chose to be at city on your birthday. i want toha say i'm very supportive of this act. i'm always with more research and development. do believe there's better living through chemistry but, i also think the elephant in the room is why not less plastics? we seem to talk about recycling and putting a plastics together. but our colleague from long beach has banning single use plastics bill for their now 69 countries that have banned plasticnn bags. there are at least a dozen that bana microbeads including

the united states and the uk. i know you are all about sustainability. are we not missing a big piss of this just by thinking about better ways to use less plastics? >> yes. you make a very good point and observation. we really need to look holistically at solving our problems in terms of providing goods and services economically and sustainably. and yes, plastics to afford light weighting and safety, products. we do really need to look at what we do a lifecycle assessment look at the impact on production, use andro retirement and evaluate the total energy, greenhouse gas admission and waste. there are definitely opportunities today where we could substitute materials, use it more durable solutions.

and reduce the use of plastics. plastics clearly have a critical role in ourut society. but i think we could be smarter with substitutions. if we just focus on recycling we could increase the political ration of plastics that makes recycling more challenging and the volumes could go up which would mean more resources. as you know, we are in a climate crisis. we need a different calculus about how we look at sustainable systems and solutions. i think it is really critical that we evaluate innovations and recycling, infrastructure, we look for me lifecycle lens. plastics are carbon intensive. their other materials that are less carbon intensive. they do offer advantages. you get the trade-off that occurred.

itit is important to use a systems approach to address it. >> sometimes even little things legacy on capitol hill, many members will carry around the big 32-ounce or 64-ounce water bottles, which is a huge improvement over buying yet another water bottle a dozen at a time. >> ms. harrison you have a background and plastics among other things. which scares the dickens out of me. the great pacific is twice the size. that is one of only five major garbage practices in the world. i just read be at the 2 billion tons of plasticswo per year there in the oceans and rivers. >> what are we going to do to address this? >> i think it gets back to your first question. i think it recycle not solve thisti. it's part of a circular, it's not a solution. it's a reaction and only

happens there's a big enough pile. >> interna do something new. if we wait for that pile to accumulates in the ocean we have missed our opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place. yes, i started off by studying turtles but a couple years ago that research ship and actually my biologist might lead biologist instructor from college and joinedy me on this trip because i said don't you want to enjoy corporate executives in thejo middle of the ocean to see the plastics upfront? hen we jumped theco middle of the waterford we jumped from "the atlantic" ocean 50 kilometers east of the bermuda and we sought progress assault macrocell fishing gear we sell toilet seats, we saw forks. if we wait for forks to be in the middle, we have waited too long. we have to talk about a system solution that takes into concept theav r&d concept and marries them to economics. i love this conversationepep abt

cross collaboration but he must think about it from a system point of view so we prevent the problem, not just clean up the problem. >> think every much in the yield back manager. >> greats. with that allow me to it recognize my friend and colleague dr. baron for five minutes of questioning. >> >> thank you madam chair. again, happy birthday. ranking member and witnesses we reallymr appreciate all of you being here. really appreciate ms. harrisoner mentionin the hollywood of indiana that makes outdoor furniture out of detergent bottles. and then just last week i spoke with the eri which is the electronic recyclers international, company located in my district specializes inn electronics recycling. and well, yes this pertains to focus on the plastic

recycling, i believe some of the themes remain the same when we view recycling at a global level. and this is an issue that you mentioned in your testimony the united states exports waste to developing countries which includes both plastics and electronics waste. i discussed the national security and the counterfeiting which occurs from exporting electronic waste, that is but one issue right as such, countries have environmental harm by improperly disposing of these materials, that being plastics as well ass electronics, realistically what is happening on such countries and points these plastics and is there anything we can be doing to help in the disposal and make sure it's handled properly?

>> yes. one thing, just focusing on electronic waste i know the gao did a study and showed there is a lot of illegal activity of exporting waste, hazardous waste. one activity that congressng could do is to strengthen the auditing and crackdown more on this illegal activity. that is opposing problems in terms of hazardous waste and how they are managed improperly in developing countries. and then we have talked about setting up the infrastructure here. we to taketi responsibility, total producer responsibility in terms of how our products are managed or. we cannot rely on exporting.

i think there is a recognition we also want to have leadership and is setting up the systems to be able to properly manage products like electronics. to reduceuc risk. i think one, accountability in terms of ten enforcement of the current regulation we have on electronic waste would go a long way. >> thank you for that. in your testimony you suggest bio based fuels from them changing direction a little bit. you suggest bio -based products would make for promising materials to use in place of some of the traditional manufacturing materials. and so, with my background i am interested in how agriculture might play a role in solving some of these issues and provide the raw materials for making alternative cereals that would function for the same purpose.

so, do you have any comments in that regard? >> congressman thank you absolutely. i spoke about in my testimony on bio -based products. that you would use annually renewable crops to generate, not only new chemicals but income but chemicals that can be dropped in replacements. i think it is an active and important area of research. one area that is important now is the ability to use non- new trojan biomass for the food chain. but of course it turns out it is a lot easier to process things like corn, sugar beets, and other materials that have sugars that are more readily accessible.

it's the understanding for the bio -based resources of both new chemicals and drop-in replacements is in need of more effort and more research to make these things technologically viable. in time use non- new georgian is really an important in the industry. >> thank you. ici am out of time so i yield back madam chair. >> perfectly on time or that the chairs going to recognize doctor bill foster for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you madam chair. to give a shout to national absently because i recognize it's a perfect example of the research of why this committees committed on a bipartisan basis to doubling doe's budget. just one small but important

part. so my question to anyone that wants to try, what do you do with high-performance plastics? with glass fibers, are there classes of really high-performance plastics with high temperature thermal sets like captain, the epoxies and so one for which there is really not going to be a realistic recycling scenario? or maybe short of paralyzing them? the potential market is this she refocus on the generic plastics in acknowledge there are some classes, that are just going to be really tough and we should really give up on them? anyone want to take a stab at this? >> i don't mind taking a stab there's an important point in theer high-performance materials

example composite materials certain challenges the contemporary research in this arena and the thermoset arena addressed one of them hardly repress these materials? they are typicallyly viewed as un- reprocess of a. but current research of code bonds allows for these materials to be reprocessed there were not available before. you wait for this waste dilemma is important. the reprocessing of the drills have could play a role they very well may come alongan the composite materials and as you say fiberglass is in there.

and by saying yes, these are a smaller portions of our plastics waste dilemma. i do not think we should ignore it. there are more pressing issues for example the more common and ubiquitous packaging. : : : as the more common plastic packaging. mr. foster: does anyone -- how do you rebuild the future of this? are we going more and more to solvent type of recycling? what are the future technologies? or just do a really good job with chemical separation with robotics? what are the technologies that are going to end up being important in this? >> congressman, i'll take a shot at that. i think some of the work i talked about right now is largely focused on packaging for those no doubt we can learn across a variety of industries. last images industry represents a private companies to do a variety of things in this space. one key area focused on is creating a low carbon future.

we have already outlined a roadmap that deals with the circularity in the automotive space and it's going to require a lot more effort by work on this committee and government agencies think about that aspect of it because what we are doing is solving an issue from a carbon perspective but we need to think about how we make it more sustainable and utilize them over and over. i was speaking to sustainability follow-up in thinking about their mission a bit with cars and vehicles for instance, those parts are valuable, high value that could be used again and again so there is no doubt more work needs to be done. my hope would bee some of the work and breakthroughs on things like recycling could eventually extend into these other applications. >> i think it's in germany where

there are serious requirements on recyclability for cars in manufacturing, some story i've seen. you're talking about the dream of having cars assembled by robots in the factories and at the end of the life, they drive back to the factory in the same robots who put them together take them apart andhe separate them, meltdown plastic parts and make them to new pieces but i think it was a requirement already. >> off the top of my head so we could get that submitted for the record you are spot on, if you think of a futuristic world and manufacturing, that vision you outlined is one i think we wholeheartedly subscribe to. the material is super valuable, it's not waste and if we could capture that material and break it down toto billy blocks and

reuse it, that's not just good for the environment, it's a sustainable product and reduces reliance on natural resources it will create circularity of sustainability across a variety of industries. >> off left over parts have motor oil all over. my time is up so i go back. >> thanks and now the chair will recognize the congressman from michigan, peter meyer for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair once again on behalf of the fellow missions delegation, happy birthday. i wanted to again thank ranking member and our chair for hosting this hearing and i think it's an incredibly important topic and one in west michigan we care deeply about. we have to landfills in our county, one of which is nearing the end of the lifecycle and our

county and local officials are looking at ways of turning into a sustainablear business to recapture value stream that right now is being disposed of and i want to appreciate ranking member's remarks on the idea of circular economy and what we can do to close down streams and symbol used plastic is a main one, the plastics marketing recycled that are recyclable are significant but ever since the 2018th national policy by china, we lost one of our most valuable output mechanisms and sorting mechanisms for dealing with that coping recyclable waste. we also have a strong lasix industry in our third district that supports thousands of jobs for chemical industry and auto manufacturing and packaging of breakfastak cereal so plastic

plays a vital role from one of my questions, as we are thinking about single use plastics and compostable plastics coming on board and i know we have spoken about difficulties or contamination that can occur when biodegradable plastics are introduced into a recyclable plastic stream from arthur -- what are the opportunities to be shifting single-use obligations can trust biodegradable for compostable alternative? >> thank you for that question and i think both of those partly all of the above solution the congressman from texas mentioned here. i think the key that i would mention regarding this which cuts across a variety of comments made today, innovation will be what wins the day on solving those. not more regulation.

impossibility, innovation on how we deal with biodegradability, integration and creating a circular economy from plastics we are using, i will material over and over again. that's what circularity is. what that will ultimately create is a low carbon future all of us want because it will require us to use less resources to create these products so to the specific question, i think this goes back to the overarching theme of what the committee is talking about. more work is needed, we need to think and leverage the best of what we have whether it's department of energy, national labs or commerce department from all these agencies play a critical role in connecting research sops to ensure thatec science guides expansion of things like biodegradability, research price compostable the inmp collaboration continues to guide the work around circularity. >> thank you.

doctor, i enjoyed reading your testimony it's good to welcome and assist in the greater lakes state. the professorship at the university of michigan is named for peter, the son of west michigan directed much of his energy and philanthropy into environmental causes. he coined the term economy ecology, very much a believer we need to care for the environment but doing so in a way that's economically ultimately beneficial i believe conservatism or conservationism are, using this lens of hardship congress approach that lifecycle of plastic materials with maximum benefit for the economy? >> in addition to looking at lifecycle assessment of energy and greenhouse gases, we look at lifecycle costs and one example we did a study on the state of oregon and bottled water versus reusable systems and clearly

using tap water and filling a container is going to be much more economical than using a disposable bottle and energy savings and the waste is significantly different so we need to be smart and when you look at solutions, we need to look at the economics and i believe we also need to look at certain regulations and standards and it's not just innovation, i think it is critical that we take a interdisciplinary approach and bring together economics, policy technology and behavior. >> thank you, my time has expired and i yield back. >> right questions. the chair recognizede congresswoman midnight state of north carolina. >> thank you very much and i hope this is a very happy birthday for you.

i want to thank our witnesses for joining us today on this extremely important issue that affects people's everyday lives. in my home state of north carolina are one of the top plastic producers in the country. as of 2019, we o were raised in the top ten in the country in terms of number of employees the plastic industry with 38000 employees. we played an important role in plastic waste reduction and recycling innovation. in 2009, when i served in the north carolina state legislature, facing serious issues and sea turtle death, one of the most pristine parts of our estate. we passed a law that bannedst single use plastic bags in six countieses among outer space. it supported in those communities, it was repealed in

2017. in addition we have researchers at the state university in my district involved in plastic waste reduction and recycling research. in addition to the company previously mentioned, one graduate, bill johnston went on for a sustainable clothing company that converts plastic bottles to fibrous spun into yarn, spends into fabric and thrown into clothing. i focus a lot in my questions about the next generation because we are such a focus, an area of the country. to all the witnesses, i want to ask how we inspire the next generation to get involved, to be excited about recycling and not using plastic in the first

place. we've seen so much leadershiphe from the next generation about these issues and things like recycling. beyond teaching kids in school, how can we better encourage them to pursue education and careers like you all have? >> i'd be happy to jump in and as a graduate of north carolina university, i am happy practice this research. i had human ecology and natural resources and how you put this together. i'm inspiring young people and young diverse people to be involved. we think of how we engage into this space, i think we all think about campaigns. we've all seen those. what we really need is innovation of our youth looking to the systems solutions we keep talking about. we can't are anti- our way out, but for a singular technology, we have to really think about

pivoting from how we respond to the problem to how do we prevent it in the first place? how do we know from the concept of design whether it'sal in advance material we were talking about or packaging. we know if it's going to be linear or landfill or circular and can be something else. that's what the partnership is doing to advance b diversity to bring young minds and think about. >> i'm going to move on to my next question so i can get on the run into somebody want amplify, please do so. this o is doctor killmeyer, #the department of energy announced 14.5 million from r&d to cutch waste and reduce energy used to recycle single-use plastic. how does your research group and others working on chemical recycle technology integrate sustainable chemistry or green

approach with your research in order to design ways to minimize or neutralize byproducts of the chemical recycling? >> we work hard on advanced recycling and chemical recycling trying to understand the fundamentals of how you can take established plastic in one week design on purpose to be efficiently chemically recycled and we commented on the use of solvent in green chemistry that doesn't require solvent, maybe temperature or light that allows you to turn plastic usable in their everyday application efficiently back to the molecules from which they think using principles are chemistry free if we can do those, they generate plastic with the same benefits. >> thank you, madam chair and i yield back.

>> with that, we are going to recognize mr. kronner, congressman from mike state of pennsylvania for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair. so nice on behalf of the whole state would like to wish you a happy birthday today as well. to our witnesses, thank you for hanging on this long. i wanted to pick up where i think you are living off which is of course our jurisdiction on this committee really is to try to move forward the nations research agenda and help answer onon answered questions, particularly ones of longer-term nature divisional visitors might find m so would you mind summarizing or commenting on the state of knowledge about where we are going in composting and the breakdown of biodegradable

recyclables and plastic and maybe give me more specific insight into if there's two or three big questions we can help answer in the next decade, what are they? >> this is an area i'm passionate about and interested in. i'll reiterate what i said earlier, biodegradation, under what condition? i think this where basic research plays a key role, understanding exactly what happens laissez in industrial compost at high temperature and humidity as opposed to backyard compost work in thehe environmet and how to differentiate chemistries and fundamental process that goes on in different environments so you can understand and predict lifetimes in the environment. the second piece is, what do they break down to and how do we understand we are not just

generating smaller shards of plastic retail supply parts following it all the way through the breakdown process and understanding physical phenomena chemical phenomena are critically important and we have research trying to understand those fundamental processes, how do microorganisms break down what ultimately result degradation and compostable plastic? i view this again is a piece of solution, plastic and race but it will come with infrastructure and clear education and understanding of what is meant by compostable and how the process actually takes place. this is important contemporary area of research, more research is needed to understand the design factors, what you might build into the plastic to have a breakdown under certain conditions in efficient ways and i love the idea of the approache

where the design of molecules and evaluate performance and of life scenarios that allow these allifecycles understood that a fundamental level. >> i appreciate that and the chairwoman this, other furnaces, want to answer my question, the minute and 50 seconds i have remaining clarifying specific questions like to see us answer in the next decade or so. >> quickly i would encourage the committee when i think about, i often hear people talk about recycling, to do lists for recycling. when we begin to prove it to this, we have to ask, our to doo list for making plastic compostable. 4% of the u.s. population has access to a commercial composting significantlyl

blessings access to traditional recycling so i want to make sure we are not physically to something because the current problems hard but pulling back same from the concept of the idea making sure we have this position. >> i would just add, composting what we think of as positive, backyard compost, i put compost into my garden from soil amendment but we are talking here dealing with later, avoiding later and it is a lost resource. this is plastic that has embodied energy in here debating it into the environment with a problem so i think we have to look critically at what we want to make compostable so again is back to holistic solutions. >> i appreciate -- none what if

we can get chairwoman bill passed, it will move down the road so appreciate your presence and insight i yield back. >> thank you and what a nice note to begin to close the hearing on because it's true, we got a tremendous piece of legislation and this hearing, the kickoff to this legislative session to make sure we are on the right track hearing from stakeholders from across the spectrum with mr. barker from the american chemistry council that was heard testimony and very dedicated to all approach in bringing in peace we need to hear from and the finger on what is going on across country and

doctor mark who i feel like along with doctor -- your wealth of knowledge and dedication both -- mr. meyer referenced american hero and dedicated to our state of michigan, both sides of the state of michigan doctor killmeyer, some people confuse michigan and minnesota but we know you are on the other side of the lake, a couple other sides of the lake so then we can debate who really is the man of many, many lakes but we are grateful for your dedicated research and your time today and where we find ourselves in this legislative session, the.ofwe something tremendous. staggering statistics if you recall hearing me share this 9%

recycling, plastics is recycled. how do we increase that? how do we think about doubling back to sustainable systems? moving from staggering statistic, a sustainable system is so important because we hear about individual enthusiasm and consumer enthusiasm and in her questions and what she is seen in north carolina with individual entrepreneurs and business leaders, we do need a systems approach and this comes as a unique time as the united states is charting the path forward on our broader infrastructure as well. it does look like a calling from the nice state of pennsylvania, susan wilde has come in for questions so allow me to pause

and recognize her for five minutes of questioning. >> thank you, madam chair and i'm sorry to come in late, i'm juggling three committees this morning so we all know how that goes so i'm going to keep it short but i have been listening to as much as us as i possibly could because it's of interest are great, ectopic great personal interest to me so i wrote this up there, a recent study concluded large amounts of plastic would accumulate in the environment even if we use every currently feasible effort to achieve 80% reduction in plastic solution by 2040. you and other experts agree materials for recyclability will be key to sustainable plastic waste reduction. what steps do we need to take to ensure coordination between product design option for

end-of-life plastic management that's going to be my only question because a big far ranging question. >> one of the things i recommended that we emphasize in terms of our in the investment there and research is that we have industry participate with scientists, with government to look at what kinds of policies can help make innovation implementable a or accelerate implementation and even community partners so we need to look at co- creation of solutions. i think that will be beneficial in terms of ensuring that we are going to coordinate between product design and end-of-life

and bring the oem and make automobiles with marks group and also involved those responsible for end-of-life recycling infrastructure so i think interdisciplinary approach is important in the other, we need to look at europe helped push reducing the amount of waste and automobiles with their guidelines. it was mentioned about germany, europe's guidelines automobiles reduce the amount of auto treadle, the amount of waste. those policies can also help accelerate solutions that are technological so i think that is important as well. >> i have to say, this comes somewhat -- i have a personal experience not too long ago for i was on an island in the

caribbean, claiming a violin, right? but anyway, one of the things, itn was rough and one thing tht struckme me from up there a lotf places in the world have a tremendous amount of trouble moving their trash. i understand those returns as a result, i had little to no effort to recycle because they had trouble getting labeled trash up the island let alone dealing with plastic recycling but it was tragic because here i was in a beautiful place, just an abundance of plastic waste all over the place so i think we are going to have to get to it place where theso manufacturers are looking at end of life, and of plastic life management where there is some way other than,

because it global problem and iw we don't look at global solutions, we are never going to solve it so thank you all, it has been very helpful the parts i was able to participate in, i really enjoy. thank you. madam chair, i yield back. >> excellent. congratulations to mike probably for hearings in managing to make it in for this one because your voice and viewpoints are very important to us and we are bring going to bring the hearing to a close, we don't have any more questions. i doen want to thank our science committee staff on both sides of the aisle it's absolutely set up expertly with greate professionalism. we were able to do this in a

hybrid format as we start to kind of come back to the way things were and that's never a light switch as we have been learning in this pandemic but we were able to achieve success and the goal of this hearing and we are in a springboard as we are saying to what next and we are going to continue to leave the record open for two weeks for additional statements for members or additionalekme quests members may have of the witnesses. i know we are going to continue to draw down on expertise of this great panel of witnesses so at this time, the witnesses are going to be virtually excused, excused into hearing is now adjourned.

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