decision on the gold standards. and a look at ending hiv and aids in africa. watch for many of these authors to appear in the future on book tv. >> hello, everyone, i'm max and would like to thank you all for vroman's bookstore. and discussing nicholas' book, and if you would like to ask nicholas had a question at anytime, click the action button and lastly if you'd like to buy the book, click the green button. thank you so much. >> hi. >> nick, greetings for whatever this is.

nick is calling in from london, it's 2:00 in the morning. >> it is. >> and i've read this book from beginning to end called test gods. there are different moods to it. it's a swashbuckling story, it's stair of sweet, of richard branson, one of the personalities that we know of and nick's father, a complex relationship that we'll talk about. i got to know nick, of nick in 2011 when he wrote the best, you know, i read the new yorker because i'm a journalist, he wrote this. incredible reconstruction in the bin laden race, and i met him in person when he was

teaching at princeton and sent me a couple of the book. i i get a lot of blurbs, and i read 10 pages, 15 pages, this i couldn't stop reading it. it was beautifully written, exciting. much like the right stuff in a different era, the speed on branson and virgin galactic and the future of space and space travel. jumping into it. what sparked your interest in this. >> host: i know you were at the new yorker at the time. >> yes, that's when i got started. it's an honor, and buzz has been a hero of mine. when i started reading and one

of the pivotal books that my dad gave me when i was growing up, saturday night lights. when i thought about this project from the beginning, how do i take the subject matter of the right stuff and how do i approach it as if i was -- how do you approach it like friday night lights and that started in 2014. which is the critical moment. pivotal moment for me on halloween, virgin galactic was flying a test flight. and maybe it's helpful to show the configuration. as you can see on the cover here, they have a unique air launch system, a mother ship to carried the spaceship allot --

aloft. at that point the mother ship pulled away and the spaceship. the two test pilots inside, a unique distinguisher from the other primary rocket companies, that are mostly motivated and vertically launched. they light the rocket and it flies for a few second and reaches speed vertical ascent to the heavens. on this particular morning in october of 2014, the co-pilot ignites the rocket and seconds into the flight commits this sort of unthinkable error. >> i remember. >> yeah, essentially-- bizarre, totally bizarre. >> essentially pulls the emergency brake on the highway. >> how far are they going? >> .8 mach1 and the

transpondent crazy moment other side of mach one. they are there are unexpected arrow dynamic forces on the vehicle. the test pilot had to be aware-- they have a feature where the tail rotates up and the reason for that, upon reentry after they've gone up to space, they needed to figure out how to make it a careful, gold, reentry. and imagine a tortilla that would fold up like a taco. and this would be like the

shuttle clock. and they said never unknock the feather when you approach mach1. for some reason he did that and as he did that, the arrow dynamic forces threaded the vehicle apart in mid air. >> two pilots. >> the pilot and co-pilot died and how many killed? >> co-pilot was killed immediately. co-pilot was killed. the pilot miraculously survived. and he somehow wiggled out of his seat. he pulled the parachute and landed in a creesote bush and survived. >> i remember getting the alert on my phone. there were so many built in assumptions in the article, richard branson space company

krshs in the desert. there's i'm saying, a british person, with the test flights and crying and dying, and the stakes seemed unmistakably high and this is happening. so that was a moment that i went to my editor at the new yorker and said, we have to write about this. this is insane, and his question was sounds cool, but can we get quote, unquote, real access is what he said so my next trip was to go out to california and to talk about then vice-president. company, now president of the company to figure out if i could get real access, how could i embed with them. >> i'm always curious about that. how did that conversation go? access is a double-edged sword.

were they reluctant, excited, want certain assurances from you? you don't get -- how much work did it take? >> it took a little bit of work. they were surprised when we were accepted. they were surprised we were accepted, i tell you, for one of the reasons. they had just come off this horrific crash and i said i wanted to get in there when emotions were raw and i want today watch them build this new vehicle from scratch. at that point the company's pr had been focused on the glitz and glamour of the five star experience they were offering and most of that was being driven by their commercial office in london.

and mike moses, the now president of the company, formerly vice-president, saw this as an opportunity to tell the story of the people, the men and women out there turning the wrenches drawing the designs and flying the ship. he was surprisingly receptive to the idea. i'll tell you, the other piece that really sort of helped me get in the door is the public affairs woman at the time, friday night lights, i told her i wanted to write friday night lights. >> getting some royalties on this. >> totally. it's true. [laughter] >> that helped get me across the finish line. there was also one piece to that, one of the pilots, the pilot corps was five people. awn with had been an f-18 pilot

that flew with my dad and i knew 30 years ago, i hadn't seen him in 25 years and when i found out he worked at virgin galactic, i met with him and gave my spiel how i worked and how i would do this. and how the new yorker's fact checking apparatus worked and i explained to him. look, there's been a lot of stuff written about it and so much was falls. and he went to mike moses, i don't know, personal had i, if we're going to let one in, this guy seems to come from decent spot. >> your father was the original maverick. i mean, your father was a kick-ass pilot for the marines. >> he was, he was. my dad at that time was a three-star marine general in

charge of all aviation for the marine corps, but interestingly, the three stars were sort of less important to him, i think, than the fact he was still at his age, that would have been-- he was still in his earlier 60's at that point and still flying single seat fighter jets and he-- so, na i'm sorry, he was elected into the marine corps, and a flying cross for the first michigan the night of the gulf war and a flew a mission in bosnia in 1994. so, yeah, he -- he's a legend in the marine could. >> there are so many components to this book. and one of the things i like about it, it's fascinating and

i have no engineering background, none, but what they look for, how they put this machine together, what works, what doesn't and i'm simplifying, it's marvelous. the other component is a complex relationship, almost ironic to your dad's you and for those out there who hadn't read the book. nick rebelled a little bit and you crashed his porch in a ditch, am i correct? >> yeah, interestingly when the fact checker passed this through my dad, my mom and dad, my dad at the time was deployed and wrote back to the fact checkers, that i had no recollection of that. an evening my sophomore year of high school and i had to figure out a way to get the repairs done, i think there was a tear in the radiator we had to be

repaired before he got home. >> do you fly? >> i don't. >> just curious, i can understand, your dad is one of the greatest pilots certainly in the history of the marine corps, he loves to fly and you like-- was it rebellion, i don't want to follow in his footsteps? >> and i think in afghanistan and pakistan, risked your life and why not take up flying? >> it never quite, i don't know, never quite sunk in and i realized. one of the things i realized in the process of this womb, i wasn't interested in it. i was interested in flight or aviation, it's because i was

interested in the aviators and i remember at one point i started going out to california for the book. one of the pilots said, if you're out here actuality time, there's an opportunity for you to get your pilot license. >> and for some reason -- i can't explain it, it doesn't rest mate with me. i go up and flew with the pilots on a number occasions and come down, that's cool, but i just -- it meaped me-- it helped me understand, but didn't animate me aen and making a mistake in 2014, one can't square the circle,

someone in my household couldn't have a love of aviation and want to fly. >> is there any determination why he did that? >> mow. >> i remember kreegd that and thinks this is the mistake. i don't know about flying, but did anybody determine what happened? >> there was an extensive review by the national safety board in the accident and the conclusion was that, at the end. no one knows. i mean, they spoke to his wife. i spoke to his wife as well. they tried to figure out, tired, distracted? the workload it's worth voting it's a -- and the space flight is extraordinarily high. even in the test pilot community there's a high degree of respect.

in the 15 seconds there's little that's automated and so many to pay attention to. >> so little is automated. that's interesting. >> yeah, it's-- this thing is a roll with this shoved in the back. as a piloting experience, there is nothing, there's nothing like flying a spaceship, too, it's incomparable. it does raise questions about the viability of the business. >> i'm curious about that. i'll just add. one thing i want to mention to the readers out there, what's cool about this, it's a story. he's telling a story. a company ran by a flamboyant individual, richard branson, virgin airlines, many, many

other things. he's asking to establish a space corps business and it sounds wild. and then there's a crash and they try to see if they can build the perfect spaceship. before i ask you about branson, tell me about mark stuckey, the protagonist. i think he knew your father and of your father. >> yeah, yeah. so when i got out to mow -- mojave. how do i string this together in a compelling way. i into you that he had flown three powered flights, but not the fourth and later found out that the fourth one the

co-pilot who made the mistake and died is mike stuckey's best friend. i met mark and he told me that, he shared to me he's been choicing this as newt dream his whole year john glenn takes the flight and he comes home and says, wait to be an astronaut and most fathers would humor the children, of course you want to be an astronaut, anything you want. he's a mennenite and no way he's going in the military and-- ments i forgot all of this delicious detail. >> and he then goes and like rebellious teenagers do, he

joins the marine corps and then nasa and he's chasing the fact ever the dream for decades. and contracted to build the spaceship or vin -- for virgin galactic. and i explained to him i saw him as a character and he immediately to me felt recognizable. i knew the type in some ways and then we'll talk about it later, what qualities i saw of the father in him. i didn't know at the time, he knew my dad. my dad had been his flight instructor for new marines in zuma, arizona. and he said i knew your dad. it's interest ago moment, and

we're asked as journalists why we write on a topic and spend five, six years to write about it. >> one of the interesting things about it, we're not the only ones picking. sdims we come to this. and mark was looking for someone who help potentially tell the story and i arrived at just the right time and he arrived in my life at the right time and we've since become friends and that-- . pardon? >> he's read the book. >> what did he say? you went pretty deep and he was open, but you went pretty deep with him. >> he knew, after the new

yorker piece which was raw and some people said, what are you thinking? why are you cooperating with this guy still? i think he felt that i was fair and that understood him and all the personal things, failed marriage and relationship with his kids and that. >> that was really wrenching, that was a great part of the book. >> thanks. >> and you know, that stuff is personal, that's what makes for greatness, you got in deep with him and once again, readers, they did this, they did that. the back story of him went through with his marriage and kids, poignant is not the word, but shows flaws, much more interesting than perfection, and that was an interesting part of the book. >> and that's, too, where the

notion of a modern astronaut comes from. there's the modern science and there is an other findings. every other portion of an astronaut that we've read a set-jawed perfect character-- >> the john glenn stereo type. >> wholly. >> and you have marty who lets a reporter rummage around his e-mailbox and looking for salacious details of a doors. >> and i said this is with the company i conveyed this. if you don't let me see the moments of tragedy and difficulties, then the moment at the end isn't going to have the same payoff.

there was time-- an incident or two where the company, people tried to tell me to leave a meeting or leave a room if something sensitive happening. and i these are the moments, and the argument which i gave and he sort of saw it, yeah you you let someone into the difficulties and makes the success at the end that much sweeter. >> how did mark remind you-- let's talk about your dad a little bit growing up. were you intimidated by him? i know he was away a lot, he was deployed a lot. did you know him that well? >> it's a great question. so intimidated, i mean, he was a -- some emotionally distant, but powering figure, right?

and not-- we're not talking the bull meets great-- we weren't doing push-ups every morning. my dad's intensity came from the fact that he was-- he always wanted to do things differently and a little more intense than even normal ways should have been. it wasn't just hunting, but it was hunting wild bores with a bow and arrow, it was with arrows that he flicked in our garage with a .357 magnum if case the boars approached. >> that sounds like fun. like a saturday afternoon. >> not a saturday afternoon, it wasn't nick, you want to go hunting with me, sure.

and we were out at 3 a.m. and go to the marsh, get out of the boat and drive for an hour and pull into the marsh and we get out and we are pea slopping through the mid. when you're near 14, you're like, man, this is sucks. >> it's which too early-- >>en you you clearly got that from him. for those of you who don't know, when you were beginning to be a reporter. you were challenging life in your own right. and the wanderlust in a different way? was he friendly? if i met him, i'd be scared, so matcho. >> that's the thing, yes, so friendly, he -- he didn't exude

warmth. >> right. >> my mom made up for it. my mom is the heartbeat of the family. what i have tried to reconcile and to rec on with. i always knew that my dad was expect expectations for us, and when i'm looking at my dad. looking at my kids, i'm much more present and available and they're unfortunately sleeping right now. pan they would say, oh, dad, i'm tired and still-- i'm much more present. how do you be physically present and warm and want to be a figure that they want to be impressed. and when mark described the

relationship from his son, i could see it both ways, and i knew how mark, look, my son-- we're estranged and i thought, oh, my god, i had a six-year-old and three easterlied and how-- it was gut wrenching. so, yeah, it's a tough thing. my dad, incredibly inspiring and constantly wanted to live up to his expectations and there's no part of it that i think-- i think i've appreciated the relationship more now than i did then. >> where did you grow up? was it all over the place? >> in the u.s.

because of where the air force bases were, buford, south carolina where i lived. three tours there. yuma, arizona, which is comparable to hoehave-- mohave, between virginia quantico or the penalty. >> let's talk about branson and in talking about branson, this is another important part of the book. at the beginning, i guess the question was, was this a-- do you think it was a lark? and as the project went on and deeper into the book, you realized no, branson is experience and sees it as the next montreaux i know he spent billions of dolla that's are guys that like challenging the future and

obviously, elon musk. what was your sense of richard branson. how dedicated was he do it? >> i think he was very-- i think he was very dedicated. >> surprisingly, frankly. >> and here is reason why, it's important to go back and to realize the centrality of this boutique aviation firm that designed spaceship one and spaceship two. it explains why mike alesbury made the mistake and why that wasn't built into the spaceship. and 10 million dollars the first privately built

spacecraft that can reach in space in two weeks. >> and it's about to expire, and they build a thing, spaceship one, smaller version of spaceship two. and smaller version of white knight two and spaceship one goes to space three times that year and makes two kwaul times. ... says all but a million dollas to the project in the end and puts the virgin logo on the side of spaceshipone and earns the right to commission to build a composite of a bigger version. it didn't seem like a lark maybe it was but now that it has announced spaceshipone has done this, i mean, it could do

anything. it had crazy offer some people coming in. they had just proven everyone wrong. this is the central challenge because what scale composites did and has done, and anyone has been to the aerospace museum knows it without even knowing them. the head of scale composites has more designs hanging up in the space museum than anyone else. >> is a remarkable character. >> he's a genius. so, but the whole thing is building prototypes, building one offs. they don't put a lot of failsafes into their vehicles. now you have this company that is trying to build a certifiabl certifiable, safe space tourismm vehicle. you can see that's going to be, that's a recipe for disaster in some ways. they don't build redundant, they

build redundancies where they need to be there but if the redundancy that need to be there they don't put in there. virgin galactic is coming along and they have lawyers and all of these people worried about is going to be safe? these two companies while they work together it wasn't, it was often the farthest thing from seamless you could imagine. the cultural clash between those two i found fascinating as well. branson believed and it's hard to know what branson said is now. i mean he recently, he recently sold off $150 million worth of personal stock shares in virgin galactic, and virgin galactic said, it's hard to say. they have more money now than ever because they went public about a year and half ago. >> i was wondering what the status is. mean, before they went public they had about $80 million in cash and cash

reserves in their account and they were spinning $20 million a month. money was going to become an issue very quickly. they went public. now they're still spending 20, 25 million a month but the $660 million in a cash. they have a long road in which they can continue to figure this out, but the fact that branson has pulled his money out recently or pulled out a large chunk raises questions as to where his head is now with the viability of this whole venture. >> is it a viable concept? it's interesting reading about elon musk and what's he doing and how much progress. is it a viable concept? i knew you can get people who want to do it and paid the entrance fee, whatever the hell it is. but can it work? >> i think it could work for elon. what elon and spacex are building i think it's doable. i think the challenges that

virgin galactic as is its configuration leaves it exposed so many more, it leaves it so much more exposed because you have both, you have a man and a loop, two men and a loop which showed you can have the most extremely well qualified and trained pilot and sometimes they still have bad days. and also this is an airplane company that built the spaceship and this is not a spaceship company that built the spaceship. scales composite is dna aircraft company. virgin galactic cdna is an aircraft company. the vertical takeoff and vertical launch approach that blue origin, virgin galactic main competitor, and spacex use just seems to be, it seems that more long-term viability. it seems to be, that i think is

probably going to be the way. it's nothi the right totally but their prognosis of where they will be in a few years is still in fuse with a magical that it would be fine weekly flights with this thing. they only have one mothership and as a mother ship goes down, they are through. screwed. that is the top view of the viability in the coming years. host: we are certainly open to questions. a few people have commented i was getting access to get virgin galactic and joe was a sign of mennonite pastor that

he did not join the military. you do this book when you set out to do the new yorker piece we are anticipating a book? or did it grow into a book? >> i knew after the first couple of trips out there the access that i had and that they were letting me sit in and record these meetings and the granularity in detail and the scale and ambition of what they were trying to do felt relatively soon there was a book potential. but it took a while just to figure out what the story was. the first couple of versions there were just too many characters it was too flat i couldn't figure out the arc. it took me a while to whittle

out what wasn't mark and then what enhances his peace what enhances the story and then when i come back for the book , you mentioned earlier wasn't just one episode after another. it was helpful to have his story to figure out what feeds into it and what do you need to know with history and back story to further understand his story? think that's the in our ministry at writing fiction that i grapple with every book how you balance the character with the spokes it is like a bicycle wheel with the hub in the spokes but then they get in the way of the narrative? do they slow it down? but on the other hand books are wonderful because they have context so i felt that

you pulled that off nicely and really well. so this is in the afterword. i was curious emotionally they go for the access and 2014 and 2018 mark moses who is now the president. >> mike moses. host: was that in response to the new yorker piece with a trying to hide something? you are there for four years. what happened? >> the idea is i would stick with them until they flew the fifth the first rocket powered flight after they built the new spaceship.

i knew something was different that would affect the relationship there were some critical junctures on the morning of that flight april 2018 at that point i had not been denied access are told they could not come into a single meeting. i would ask they would say sure. one occasion they were talking about a manpower human resources and said you can listen for context but this is the only meeting you cannot record. that flight happened i was barred injury it was a guy name stephen and borrow. he is i think employee number one. host: what does that mean? [laughter] he came up with this idea he is the guy who would sell the tickets and market the company

and focus on the customer experience. he is the guy all the glitz and glamour and this is what he was selling. i know he did not like the fact i was embedded and he was very controlling of the pr narrative he wanted to be focused on the sponsorship deals with land rover and grey goose now there is a reporter running around what do we do with this guy? so this piece comes out august 18 and mike moses said to me on a monday and the thursday i called and said i have a book deal i'm ready to get back in and moses said give me a week i need to work out some diplomatic things some people thought the

magazine piece made it sound dangerous. i saved you have three engineers with a 2007 accident and your test pilot was killed i don't make it sound dangerous. [laughter] so then he became for a fight for the soul of the company where i am in one year to say i will tell the story. i knew that richard like the magazine he e-mailed me and said to me he was reluctant to do this he didn't want to see this the appreciate the time and the effort and we saw there was an opportunity for me to keep doing what i wanted

to do again in december of 18 he reiterated that but they kept just dragging their feet and talking about deals or other books they were just making up these things to prevent me from being in. the real critical moment i had this one-on-one relationship with branson. without telling when else at the company invited me down to the british virgin islands to spend a couple of days talking about the company. two days before i was set to leave i never should've mentioned this but i let it slip to the pr guy was down to the british virgin islands now all the alarms were going off and attenborough said richard won't do this but you can't come. so asking how i felt, i remember being really scared i could not pull this off.

i remember having this conversation with my dad that night. he said you have a book to write. that is the priority. i knew i had what i needed at that point. i had mark in space and virgin galactic flying the first non- test pilot and those two special flights in december of 18 and february of 19. in some ways it was a blessing in disguise because it gave me some distance. i have my material now i can write about this soberly and realistically am no longer fighting for access. in some ways it was the best thing that could've happened but. host: access for writers is a double edged sword because you deliver on - - develop a relationship you have to be able to step back and look at

it with sober eyes that is tricky so it was probably good. and then you get addicted to access as well i did not think about that so when they cut it off that does enable you to step back. >> so how does writing this book affect your own life? you made 14 or 15 trips to mojave and the relationship with the book characters and those in your own sphere? some people talking to you and some people not? how did mark feel? you put him out there. >> i know because i told him over the course of the writing i felt that our relationship was different it wasn't the traditional journalist source relationship and subject it

transcended the normal boundaries. there was a moment that brought this to life when he flew to space for the first time in 2018 and watching his wife gave him hugs and i was behind his son and i said was the right thing for me to do? a reporter reaches out his hand to say nice job but a friend gives a bearhug. i reach out and gave him a handshake and it just felt weird and sterile and then i gave him a hug. he is more of that and he is a friend it is a unique relationship when you have a friend who you write about who knows you are going to write

things that are not complementary. not damaging it was not out to damaging but things do not make him look great but he was okay with it. he knew i was talking to his ex-wife and it would not make him look great. host: but he knew that. i asked him for access to everyone even family members and he was cooperative to the end. he has read the book. the only time he has been reserved, he said it's hard for me to comment because it's all about me but people have written to him very competent entry things and said with you being willing to cooperate gives me a whole new inside of who you are. he shared that with me. i think he's pleased with the way it turned out. host: what is he doing now? >> he still at virgin galactic

waiting to fly the next rocketship flight sometime next month. host: any regrets about the book that you would have done differently? i think as a former student that really save your ass in a lot of places to become a very good reader. with your first draft you read it and we all read the first draft and then the fear begins to set in what was the problem? too much over the map? too many characters the narrative wasn't driving? what were the problems? >> the hardest part was writing about my dad. because the back third of the book was them charging the space came really easy because it was a combination of

natural action and a lot of access and a lot of documentary materials to put together spaceflight with granular details the middle third was my concern people talk about the saggy middle how do you maintain that attention? and then a former student of mine in princeton she read various versions of that onset i have 12 pages too much of stuff about your dad or 12 pages too much that it is so clear you're trying to figure out what it is you want to say. that's what it was. i knew my dad was central to me telling the story and why.

what had drawn me to the story, but i was always worried it would feel extraneous. i needed to figure out how to make it seem organic and natural and she helped me do that. host: it gave the book a special personal dimension. it is a narrative issue. did you ever think about getting rid of it? >> i did. host: it gave the book dimension something went to the core of your soul that i thought was cool. >> thank you. yes. oil me thought about doing it initially when i thought it didn't come to me until i started to write the book itself i have a parenthetical about my dad may be eight words and the magazine piece

but i knew in the book i wanted to blow it out bigger but i wasn't sure how to do it but my editor held my hand and said it may be that sentence was a bit much for those sections digressed too far from the central storyline. can you tie him back? you go on a digression of the values that you inherited can you bring the story back? so those narrative reminders along the way was helpful. she was a student of mine i imparted all of these values that i have learned over the years. then in some ways held up a mirror and said don't forget this is what you told us. giving me a taste of my own medicine. i cannot imagine doing the book without her. host: how long did it take you

to write? you are living at four or five years. >> two years more or less. august of 18 through august of 20 i was nonstop that doing a couple of other things along the way then when the pandemic it, i was probably one third of the way into writing and then i have the next seven months of having nothing else to do so that let me. i'm not sure if i had allotted myself enough time post quarantine for the writing. host: i am curious, how high do they go up and what is the top speed? >> this is the subject of some controversy because most of

the world defines space as 100 kilometers and 328,000 feet. virgin galactic is using the us air force definition of space which is 264,000 feet. if you look at the pictures of them looking down on the earth, stuff floating, it is space. they are going almost mock three. host: miles per hour? >> always want to try aground this i always come back and say give me some real numbers how fast. mock one is 700 miles an hour.

but as you go higher it is burying because out the two and airspeed this is regular into very uncomfortable territory. host: 2000? is that close? >> yes. i think that's fair. and then what was described i remember that night at space x what did that feel like? and he said he never felt more sure of anything in his life at that point going almost t14 three that you rumble through this thick air and then you get into thin air the rocket motor is burning full going three times the speed of sound and it felt like a thoroughbred like she wanted to run and run and you could

hear the excitement in his voice. i spent that evening with him drinking whiskey at his house. so he spent a couple of years at the air force the area 51 and this was one of the more challenging parts to report because he was so cagey talking about the details. that night of the spaceflight, he said i have this bottle of whiskey. i've been saving it for a special moment that his wife cheryl had bought for him and he comes back with shot glasses each of them are with us squadrons. so just giving these knowing smirks that i have read a little bit about this one and what are they doing?

i will go to jail for this project. so he takes about a live whiskey he said let's take a shot. i don't drink whiskey i haven't drank it since college so trying to sip whiskey out of shot glasses so i take a shot and he looks at me i could not tell if he was offended or impressed and said i thought we were going to sip it i looked at up and it was a 600-dollar bottle of whiskey. [laughter] so the night of his crowning achievement me and his wife sitting at the kitchen island table talking about the day. >> it was very unique and memorable relationship. >> how high did you get?

>> they had a little acrobatic trainer aircraft that builds up the g tolerance they go up and do some spends they took me up i went flying with them four times. it kicked my ass. and it made me think i would vomit. we only went 10000 feet high. then they intentionally stalled the aircraft and spin upside down any thank you will crash it's like going to the gym. it is what they do. host: did you vomit? >> no. but i was very close the first few times extraordinarily close i had my vomit bag under my leg reaching for at a

moments notice but i managed to pull myself together. host: we are about out of time i went to read what i wrote because i mean it. it's hard to know where to begin with this unique fascinating brilliantly reported unprecedented access to that kick ass adventure story to the squat swashbucklers those addicted to speed and altitude a journey unlike any i have ever read postdating as is poignant and personal let me for a man routinely risking his life 50 miles above the clouds what does he leave behind? cosmic questions answered with elegance and beauty strap yourselves in and get ready for one hell of a ride. i meant every word. i do this very rarely so we're just about out of time so full, please get the book read it for yourself and everything

i said i really mean it. great job. what he working on now? are you back at the new yorker? >> and trying to figure out what i want to do now. after you finish a book project like this i went to sleep and get back to work and trying to figure out what will scratch the itch. [laughter] >> you don't need to sleep you have been through one helluva process. small pleasures. you will know in a few months you will feel a it's about getting the right story. brooks take a lot out of me is this your first book? >> second book i wrote a book about pakistan. >> this is far more personal. >> you will know it will come

across your desk it will be sure and three paragraphs and you have the instinct to know this is a book and then let it and if you still thinke it's a book a month later than it is a book because you've done it and you are abe pro and you're real, really counted. anyway guys, , from all of you listening thanks a lot. get some sleep. it is now 3 a.m. in london and you deserve some rest. i'm on the west coast where it's a very boring 7:00 but it's good to seeee you again at thanks everyone. >> thank you, vroman's. appreciate it. it's been fun. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv document america's stories. on sundays booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from these television companies and more, including charter communication. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. that's why charter has invested billions tilting infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering

opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications along with these television companies support c-span2 as a public service. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday you will find events and people that explore our nation's past on american history tv. on sundays booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. it's television for serious readers. learn, discover, explore. weekends on c-span2. >> greetings from the national archives collection building in washington, d.c. which sits on the ancestral lands of the -- i'm david ferrier, archivist of the united states and is a pleasure to welcome you to