>> and listen at c-span.org/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪♪ >> up next, new yorker writer, nicholas schmidle on the formation of the virgin galactic, and this is hosted by roman's bookstore. >> i'd like to thank you all for roman's bookstore. we are lucky to have nicholas schmidle, his new book "test gods", and it does contain a q & a, so if you want to ask a question, click the button at the bottom and if you'd like to purchase the book, click the green button. and with that out of the way

i'll let them take over. >> thank you. >> nick, greetings from whatever this is, the screen. for those who are listening, nick is calling in from london so it's 2:00 in the morning, is that correct? >> that is, yeah, exactly. >> you're comatose, doesn't make sense, we will forgive him. i'm here to ask questions and really here to ask questions. . i've read this book from beginning to end and it's called "test gods" and there are so many different moves to it. it's a swashbuckling story, it's a story of flight, it's a story of excitement. it's a store of speed, it's a story of richard branson one of the greatest personalities that we know of. it's a story of nick's father and what is a very, very complex relationship that we'll talk about. i got to know nick, of nick in 2011 when he wrote the best -- you know, i read the new yorker because i'm a journalist and i get envious, incredible

reconstruction of the bin laden raid when bin laden was killed and saying how the hell did he get that. the detail was incredible and i met him when he was teaching at princeton. i get a lot of tests or blurbs and normally read 10 pages, 15 pages, this i read, i couldn't stop reading it. i just found it beautifully written, exciting, much like the right stuff, but in a different era on the speed of branson and virgin galactic and the future of space and space travel. jumping into it, nick, what sparked your interest in this? i know you were at the new yorker at the time, was it 2014. >> yeah, that's when i got started. thank you, this is truly an honor to be in conversation and you know, it's been a lifetime

hero of mine. we'll get to that later. when i started reading and one of the pivotal books that my dad gave me when i was growing up was "friday night lights", when i sat down to this project from the beginning, how do i take the subject matter of "the right stuff", how do i approach it like "friday night lights", and in that company. and that started in 2014, which is -- there's a critical moment, a pivotal moment, virgin galactic was flying its fourth supersonic test flight and the vehicle, their spaceship, maybe it's helpful quick to kind of show the configuration here, they have the cover here, they have a unique air launch system which is a wide-winged mother ship to

carry the spaceship aloft to 45,000 feet much like the x-planes, x1, x-15, and tap the mother ship dropped the spaceship and the mother ship pulled away and it's distinguishing from the other rocket companies, mostly automated and vertically launched. the two test pilots, it flies horizontally and into the heavens. on this morning, the co-pilot ignites the rocket and seconds into the flight commits this sort of unthinkable error. >> i remember. >> and yeah, i mean. >> bizarre. >> essentially pulls the

emergency brake on the highway. >> how fast are they going at this point? >> they're going .8machs. just approaching mach1, sort of on either side of mach one is the transonic zone and we describe it as kind of the bermuda triangle of air speed. on the other side of mach 1, unexpected and unpredictable arrow aerodynamic features, the and the tail liens up. the reason for that, after they've gone to space. they need the spaceship to make a careful, control reentry and the ship would-- more or less a tortilla that

folds up like a taco and allowed the ship to be like a shuttlecock. never unlock the feather. if you ever unlock the feather for approaching mach 1. for some reason the pilot did that. and shredded the vehicle apart in mid air. >> and the pilot and co-pilot died and how many others. >> the co-pilot was killed and the pilot miraculously survived. there is no ejection seat. he pulled the parachute and landed in a cree so the bush in the middle of the desert and survived. i remember a news alert that day on my phone and kind of wanting to just, you know,

after reading the first paragraph or two, and wanted to stop. and there were so many assumptions, richard branson's company crashed in the desert. >> wait, there's a billionaire with two pilots on board and supersonic test flight and crashing and the stakes seemed unmistakably high. and that's the moment i went to my editor at the new yorker, we have to write about this. this is insane. and his question was, sounds cool, but can we get quote, unquote, real access is what he said. so then my next trip was to go out to california to talk to the then vice-president of the company now president of the company, to figure out if i could get real access, how could i embed with them. >> and i'm always curious about

that. how did that conversation go? you know, and access is a double-edged sword, were they reluctant, were they excited? do they want certain assurances from you? you don't get access there goes the great idea. how much conversations, how much work did it take? >> it took a little bit of work, they were surprisingly receptive and they were surprisingly receptive for a couple of reasons, one of which they had just come off this horrific crash and i said, i wanted to get in there when emotions were raw and watch them work. i wanted to watch them build this new vehicle from scratch, and at that point the company's pr had primarily been focused on the glitz and the glamour of

this five-star experience that they were offering. and most of that was being driven by their commercial office in london. and mike moses, the now president of the company, formerly vice-president. saw this as an opportunity to tell the story of the people, the men and women that were out there turning the wrenches, drawing the designs, flying the ship. so he was surprisingly receptive to the idea. >> right. >> i'll tell you, the other piece that really sort of helped me get in the door is that the public affairs woman at the time was a huge fan of "friday night lights" and i told her i wanted to write "fright night lights". >> need royalties. >>. [laughter] . >> guest: and that helped me

over the finish line. at that point the pilot core was five people and one pilot i knew an f-18 pilot that flew with my dad, but i had known 30 years ago and i hadn't seen him in 25 years, but when i found out that he worked now at virgin galactic, i went out there and met with him and gave mimm my spiel how i worked and how i would do this and i the new yorker's fact checking apparatus worked and all that and explained to him and he said, look, we've had a lot of stuff written about us and so much was false. and he went to mike moses, i don't know nick personally, i think all of them were mistrusting of journalists, and if we are he going to let this guy in, this guy seems to come from decent stock. >> your father was the original maverick, wasn't he? he was called. he was a kick-ass pilot for the marines, was he not?

>> he was, he was. and, yeah, so my dad at that time was a three-star marine general in charge of all aviation for the the marine corps about you interestingly, the three stars were sort of less important to him i think than the fact that he was still at his age, that would have been, i mean, he was still in his early 60's at that point. he was in his early 60's at that point and still flying single seat fighter jets and he-- so, yeah, i mean, he was a legend in the marine corps got one of the very few distinguished flying crosses for the mission he flew the first night of the gulf war and flew this incredibly ballsy mission in. and by the way, for-- there are so many components to this book.

it's a lot like tracy kitter's machines i don't know if you read that. >> yeah. >> one of the things i like about it, it's fascinating. i have no engineering background, none. what they look for, how they put the machine together and what works, what doesn't. i'm simplifying it. another component is this very, very complex relationship, almost ironic to your dad... poa ditch. >> [laughter] when the fact checker ran this he said i have no recollection of that. that was in my sophomore year of high school, and yeah, i had to figure out a way to get the

repairs done. i think there was a tear in the radiator and we had to get repaired by the time he got home. i think growing up -- >> do you fly? >> i don't. >> how is that -- i can understand but your dad is one of the greatest pilots certainly in the history of the marine corps. he loves to fly. you like flying because you're doing this book. was it rebellion? i don't want to follow in the footsteps? he did a lot i of stuff. i think he went to afghanistan and pakistan and rest your life and really out there in the mountains. i think you try to get into the pakistani taliban. but why not take a flying? >> it just never quite, i don't know, it just quite never sunk in. and i realize, one of the things i realized in the process of

writing this book was i wasn't really interested in it because i was interested in flight. or in aviation. it was because i was interested in the aviators. that i think even now at 1. remember at one point when i started going out to california for the book, and one of the pilots said your outer all the time, there's an opportunity for you to get your pilots license. i kind of thought about it ando then i thought for some reason it's, i can't explain it. it doesn't resonate with me. i go up and i fly with the pilots of virgin galactic, and i come down and say that was cool, but i just, it helped me understand the experience better and help you write about it better but it wasn't something that animated me. in some ways i think is probably too many people as inexplicable

as making this crazy mistake on the morning at october 21, 2014 flight 14 flight, kind of like one can't square the circle and still some who grew up in my household couldn't have some love of aviation and want to fly. >> was it ever determine as to why he did that? probably not. i remember reading that thinking this makes no sense. this is the kind of mistake i would make if i after because i don't know shit about flying. has anyone ever determine what happened? >> there was an extensive review by the national transportation safety board investigation of the accident, and conclusion was that at the end no one knows. they spoke to his wife. i spoke to his wife as well. they try to figure out was a tired or distracted.te the work load, it's worth noting the workload during these boosts portion of these flights is extraordinarily high. that's what why even amongt

pilot community there is a high degree of respect for the test pilots flying spaceship to make because in the 60 seconds, there's very little that is automated and these guys, the summits to pay attention to. the margin of error is so thin. >> so very little is automated, that's really interesting. >> the thing is like a piper, with the motor shoved in the back. as a piloting experience there is nothing, these guys is nothing like flying spaceship to make him nothing comparable. we can talk about this later but it does raise questions about the viability of the business when there are -- >> countries about that. one thing i want to mention to readers out there, , what's cool about this book is it's a story. he's telling a story.

here is a company run by very flamboyant individual, richard branson, virgin airlines, any many other things. he's going to establish a space or is in business which sounds pretty wild but he does it and then there's this horrific crash and it's the story of a company trying to recover from the crash and go on and see if they can build the perfect spaceship. before asked about branson, tell me about mark, the protagonist of thison thing. how did you get to him? i think you knew your father and loved your father. . when i got out to mojave, i was looking for someone who can help me tell the story. once i realized i would get this unique access and how a string that together in a compelling way. and he had flown the first

three power plays but not the fourth i later found out that fourth flight the pilot who made the error and died was his best friend so immediately i thought there is a super compelling storyline so i met mark and he told me he had been chasing the astronaut dream his whole life at age four he watched john glenn take his maiden flight he tells us that that's what i want to do and become an astronaut. most fathers would humor their children and say anything you want. but then he tells his son no way no son of his will ever become an astronaut because they come from military and no

son of his will ever serve in the military. >> i forgot about all that. >> so all good rebellious teenagers goes and joins the marine corps then joins nasa and the air force chasing the astronaut dream before he gets to the company that's contracted to build the spaceship for virgin galactic. so when i first met him we sat down at a pub near his house and i explained to him that i saw him as a character. immediately to me he felt recognizable like we could talk about this later about what qualities i saw of my father in him but interestingly i didn't know this at the time but he also knew my dad. my dad was his flight restructure and human arizona

and he said you remind me of somebody else in a new your dad so we are often asked as journalist why we pick a topic and why we are ready to stick with something for five or six years. and write a book about it one of the interesting revelations was that we are not the only ones taking sometimes we come to a subject and sometimes the subject comes to us that he lived a phenomenal life and to help tell that story. and i arrived at just the right time and since we had become really good friends. he has read the book. host: what did he think?

you went pretty deep with him. >> after the new yorker piece which was raw some people said to him what are you thinking? are you still cooperating with this guy? but i think he felt like i was fair and i understood him and all of the personal stuff about his broken marriage and failed relationship with his kids. host: that was wrenching and a great part of the book. >> thank you. host: that is personal and you guide deep within and once again readers, the back story what he went through in his marriage and really with his kids is poignant isn't the right word but very deep. and it shows his flaws and

those are much more interesting than perfection. >> thank you and the notion of the modern astronaut and that is the commercial space industry but every other portrait of an astronaut is the set job perfect complexion and character. >> like the john glenn stereotype. >> totally and here he was willing to own up to all of these political fallibility's and let this reporter rummage around in his e-mail looking for salacious details. and i told him. and has nothing to do with the company. if you don't let me see the moments of tragedy and the

difficulties than the moment of triumph at the end for you personally and for the company will not have the same pay off. there were times where people tried to tell me a leaving or them a meeting or something was happening that was sensitive i said these are the moments that will reveal that big moment in the end when you fly to space and that's the same argument i made to mark throughout. so you let someone into the difficulties than it makes the success at the end much more clear. host: how did mark remind you, let's talk about your dad. were you intimidated? i know he was away and deployed a lot did you know him that well? >> that's a great question.

intimidated? he was emotionally distant but a powering figure. and were not talking push-ups every morning. my dad's intensity came from the fact that he always wanted to do things differently and more intense. it wasn't just hunting but hunting wild boar's and hunting with a bow and arrow not just a regular bow and arrow but a long bow with arrows that he flashed in our garage with a 357 magnum strapped to his leg in case they charged. that is how he hunted. [laughter]

host: not a saturday afternoon but do want to go hunting with me this weekend? sure. 3:00 o'clock in the morning with the hour-long drive that we toe the bow in get out and then drive to the martian the dark for an hour then you pull into the marsh and get out and we stopped to the mud. when you are near 14 you think this sucks. it's way too early. host: for those who don't know when you were beginning to be a reporter you did some really hair-raising stuff. you were challenging life in your own right so it seems in a different way. >> if i met him i would be scared. [laughter] >> he did not exude warmth but

my mom is the heartbeat of the family and what i tried to reconcile my dad always said that expectation for us. as i'm writing this i look at my relationship with my kids and i think i am much more available i am much more present but am i studying? how do you do the both? and also being this towering figure that you constantly

strive to impress? so i know when mark described his relationship with his son i saw it both ways and how difficult it was for his son. i also sympathized with mark when he said we are estranged. he doesn't talk to me. at that point i have a six-year-old and a three -year-old i thought are you kidding me cracks i could never. this is gut wrenching. so yes. it is tough. my dad is incredibly inspiring. constantly wanting to live up to his expectations. and there is no part of it i most appreciate the relationship more now than i did then.

>> were you all over the place? >> because of where the bases are we had three tours there for ten years total and yuma arizona which is often the middle of nowhere. and then between quantico and the pentagon those of the areas that ie will bounce between. >> let's talk about branson. at the beginning, i guess as the project went on then you realize branson is serious.

he sees this as the next frontier. personally i know he spent billions of dollars but these are very hard charging guys that like the future like elon musk. but what was your sense of branson? publicity? i want to do something different or how dedicated was he quick. >> i think he was very dedicated. >> surprisingly frankly. >> here is the reason why. it's important to go back and realize the centrality of this boutique aviation firm the first built spaceship two and one. it explains why mike made that mistake in 2014 and why there were not all these failed states built into the spaceship so we remind in 1996 there is a contest the first

private leave built spacecraft to reach space twice in two weeks. so in 2000 for the contest is about to expire and here comes a small aviation firm they build spaceship one smaller version of spaceship to and use the unique airlines configuration it goes to space three times that year to make the two qualifying spaceflights in two weeks. so they have proven you can do this branson comes around and says all but a million dollars to the project in the end and puts the virgin logo on the side of spaceshipone and earns the right to commission to build a composite of a bigger

version. it didn't seem like a lark maybe it was but now that it has done this they could do anything. they had crazy offers from people coming in they had just proven everyone wrong. so this is the central challenge so what they did and have done anyone with the space museum because the head of scaled composites has more design than any. >> and these are remarkable characters. >> that their whole thing is building prototypes so they'll put a lot of fail space into their vehicles. so now you have this company who tries to build a certifiable safe tourism

vehicle. you can see that's a recipe for disaster in some ways. they don't build redundancies if they need to be there but if it doesn't need to be there they don't put it in there. then virgin galactic comes along they have lawyers and all these people are worried if it will be safe and these two companies while they work together it's far from seamless so the clash between those two i found fascinating as well so branson has good reason to believe and it's hard to know where his head is now. recently he sold off $150 million worth of personal stock shares in virgin galactic. and virgin galactic it is hard to say they have more money now than ever they were publicly are in a half ago.

but before they went public they have 80 million in cash reserves in their account and spending $20 million a month so money was going to become an issue very quickly. they went public now they spend 25 million a month but they have $660 million in cash. they have a long road to continue to figure this out but the fact that branson pulled his money out or a large chunk raises questions where his head is with the viability of the whole venture. host: is a viable? we were reading about elon musk. is it a viable concept? i know getting people to pay the entrance fee that can it

work? >> i think it could work for elon musk and space x i think it is doable. the challenge with virgin galactic is the configuration leaves it exposed. because you have the man in the loop which as the 2004 accident shows the most extremely well qualified and trained pilots and sometimes they still have bad days. and also this is an airplane company building a spaceship. this is not the spaceship company that composite was the dna in the virgin galactic dna is the aircraft company. the vertical takeoff and launch approach with the main competitor and space x just

seems to have more long-term viability. that i think will be the way i would wipe off virgin galactic totally, that their prognosis of where they will be in a few years is still infused with imaginative thinking they only have one mothership in fact goes down during any period of time than they are screwed. that is the top view of the viability in the coming years. host: we are certainly open to questions. a few people have commented i was getting access to get

virgin galactic and joe was a sign of mennonite pastor that he did not join the military. you do this book when you set out to do the new yorker piece we are anticipating a book? or did it grow into a book? >> i knew after the first couple of trips out there the access that i had and that they were letting me sit in and record these meetings and the granularity in detail and the scale and ambition of what they were trying to do felt relatively soon there was a book potential. but it took a while just to figure out what the story was. the first couple of versions there were just too many

characters it was too flat i couldn't figure out the arc. it took me a while to whittle out what wasn't mark and then what enhances his peace what enhances the story and then when i come back for the book , you mentioned earlier wasn't just one episode after another. it was helpful to have his story to figure out what feeds into it and what do you need to know with history and back story to further understand his story? think that's the in our ministry at writing fiction that i grapple with every book how you balance the character with the spokes it is like a bicycle wheel with the hub in the spokes but then they get in the way of the narrative? do they slow it down? but on the other hand books

are wonderful because they have context so i felt that you pulled that off nicely and really well. so this is in the afterword. i was curious emotionally they go for the access and 2014 and 2018 mark moses who is now the president. >> mike moses. host: was that in response to the new yorker piece with a trying to hide something? you are there for four years. what happened? >> the idea is i would stick with them until they flew the fifth the first rocket powered

flight after they built the new spaceship. i knew something was different that would affect the relationship there were some critical junctures on the morning of that flight april 2018 at that point i had not been denied access are told they could not come into a single meeting. i would ask they would say sure. one occasion they were talking about a manpower human resources and said you can listen for context but this is the only meeting you cannot record. that flight happened i was barred injury it was a guy name stephen and borrow. he is i think employee number one. host: what does that mean?

[laughter] he came up with this idea he is the guy who would sell the tickets and market the company and focus on the customer experience. he is the guy all the glitz and glamour and this is what he was selling. i know he did not like the fact i was embedded and he was very controlling of the pr narrative he wanted to be focused on the sponsorship deals with land rover and grey goose now there is a reporter running around what do we do with this guy? so this piece comes out august 18 and mike moses said to me on a monday and the thursday i called and said i have a book deal i'm ready to

get back in and moses said give me a week i need to work out some diplomatic things some people thought the magazine piece made it sound dangerous. i saved you have three engineers with a 2007 accident and your test pilot was killed i don't make it sound dangerous. [laughter] so then he became for a fight for the soul of the company where i am in one year to say i will tell the story. i knew that richard like the magazine he e-mailed me and said to me he was reluctant to do this he didn't want to see this the appreciate the time and the effort and we saw

there was an opportunity for me to keep doing what i wanted to do again in december of 18 he reiterated that but they kept just dragging their feet and talking about deals or other books they were just making up these things to prevent me from being in. the real critical moment i had this one-on-one relationship with branson. without telling when else at the company invited me down to the british virgin islands to spend a couple of days talking about the company. two days before i was set to leave i never should've mentioned this but i let it slip to the pr guy was down to the british virgin islands now all the alarms were going off and attenborough said richard won't do this but you can't come. so asking how i felt, i

remember being really scared i could not pull this off. i remember having this conversation with my dad that night. he said you have a book to write. that is the priority. i knew i had what i needed at that point. i had mark in space and virgin galactic flying the first non- test pilot and those two special flights in december of 18 and february of 19. in some ways it was a blessing in disguise because it gave me some distance. i have my material now i can write about this soberly and realistically am no longer fighting for access. in some ways it was the best thing that could've happened but. host: access for writers is a

double edged sword because you deliver on - - develop a relationship you have to be able to step back and look at it with sober eyes that is tricky so it was probably good. and then you get addicted to access as well i did not think about that so when they cut it off that does enable you to step back. >> so how does writing this book affect your own life? you made 14 or 15 trips to mojave and the relationship with the book characters and those in your own sphere? some people talking to you and some people not? how did mark feel? you put him out there. >> i know because i told him over the course of the writing i felt that our relationship

was different it wasn't the traditional journalist source relationship and subject it transcended the normal boundaries. there was a moment that brought this to life when he flew to space for the first time in 2018 and watching his wife gave him hugs and i was behind his son and i said was the right thing for me to do? a reporter reaches out his hand to say nice job but a friend gives a bearhug. i reach out and gave him a handshake and it just felt weird and sterile and then i gave him a hug. he is more of that and he is a friend it is a unique relationship when you have a

friend who you write about who knows you are going to write things that are not complementary. not damaging it was not out to damaging but things do not make him look great but he was okay with it. he knew i was talking to his ex-wife and it would not make him look great. host: but he knew that. i asked him for access to everyone even family members and he was cooperative to the end. he has read the book. the only time he has been reserved, he said it's hard for me to comment because it's all about me but people have written to him very competent entry things and said with you

being willing to cooperate gives me a whole new inside of who you are. he shared that with me. i think he's pleased with the way it turned out. host: what is he doing now? >> he still at virgin galactic waiting to fly the next rocketship flight sometime next month. host: any regrets about the book that you would have done differently? i think as a former student that really save your ass in a lot of places to become a very good reader. with your first draft you read it and we all read the first draft and then the fear begins to set in what was the problem? too much over the map? too many characters the narrative wasn't driving? what were the problems? >> the hardest part was writing about my dad.

because the back third of the book was them charging the space came really easy because it was a combination of natural action and a lot of access and a lot of documentary materials to put together spaceflight with granular details the middle third was my concern people talk about the saggy middle how do you maintain that attention? and then a former student of mine in princeton she read various versions of that onset i have 12 pages too much of stuff about your dad or 12 pages too much that it is so clear you're trying to figure

out what it is you want to say. that's what it was. i knew my dad was central to me telling the story and why. what had drawn me to the story, but i was always worried it would feel extraneous. i needed to figure out how to make it seem organic and natural and she helped me do that. host: it gave the book a special personal dimension. it is a narrative issue. did you ever think about getting rid of it? >> i did. host: it gave the book dimension something went to the core of your soul that i thought was cool. >> thank you. yes. oil me thought about doing it initially when i thought it didn't come to me until i

started to write the book itself i have a parenthetical about my dad may be eight words and the magazine piece but i knew in the book i wanted to blow it out bigger but i wasn't sure how to do it but my editor held my hand and said it may be that sentence was a bit much for those sections digressed too far from the central storyline. can you tie him back? you go on a digression of the values that you inherited can you bring the story back? so those narrative reminders along the way was helpful. she was a student of mine i imparted all of these values that i have learned over the years. then in some ways held up a mirror and said don't forget this is what you told us.

giving me a taste of my own medicine. i cannot imagine doing the book without her. host: how long did it take you to write? you are living at four or five years. >> two years more or less. august of 18 through august of 20 i was nonstop that doing a couple of other things along the way then when the pandemic it, i was probably one third of the way into writing and then i have the next seven months of having nothing else to do so that let me. i'm not sure if i had allotted myself enough time post quarantine for the writing. host: i am curious, how high do they go up and what is the

top speed? >> this is the subject of some controversy because most of the world defines space as 100 kilometers and 328,000 feet. virgin galactic is using the us air force definition of space which is 264,000 feet. if you look at the pictures of them looking down on the earth, stuff floating, it is space. they are going almost mock three. host: miles per hour? >> always want to try aground this i always come back and say give me some real numbers how fast.

mock one is 700 miles an hour. but as you go higher it is burying because out the two and airspeed this is regular into very uncomfortable territory. host: 2000? is that close? >> yes. i think that's fair. and then what was described i remember that night at space x what did that feel like? and he said he never felt more sure of anything in his life at that point going almost t14 three that you rumble through this thick air and then you get into thin air the rocket motor is burning full going

three times the speed of sound and it felt like a thoroughbred like she wanted to run and run and you could hear the excitement in his voice. i spent that evening with him drinking whiskey at his house. so he spent a couple of years at the air force the area 51 and this was one of the more challenging parts to report because he was so cagey talking about the details. that night of the spaceflight, he said i have this bottle of whiskey. i've been saving it for a special moment that his wife cheryl had bought for him and he comes back with shot glasses each of them are with us squadrons.

so just giving these knowing smirks that i have read a little bit about this one and what are they doing? i will go to jail for this project. so he takes about a live whiskey he said let's take a shot. i don't drink whiskey i haven't drank it since college so trying to sip whiskey out of shot glasses so i take a shot and he looks at me i could not tell if he was offended or impressed and said i thought we were going to sip it i looked at up and it was a 600-dollar bottle of whiskey. [laughter] so the night of his crowning

achievement me and his wife sitting at the kitchen island table talking about the day. >> it was very unique and memorable relationship. >> how high did you get? >> they had a little acrobatic trainer aircraft that builds up the g tolerance they go up and do some spends they took me up i went flying with them four times. it kicked my ass. and it made me think i would vomit. we only went 10000 feet high. then they intentionally stalled the aircraft and spin upside down any thank you will crash it's like going to the gym. it is what they do. host: did you vomit? >> no. but i was very close the first few times extraordinarily

close i had my vomit bag under my leg reaching for at a moments notice but i managed to pull myself together. host: we are about out of time i went to read what i wrote because i mean it. it's hard to know where to begin with this unique fascinating brilliantly reported unprecedented access to that kick ass adventure story to the squat swashbucklers those addicted to speed and altitude a journey unlike any i have ever read postdating as is poignant and personal let me for a man routinely risking his life 50 miles above the clouds what does he leave behind? cosmic questions answered with elegance and beauty strap yourselves in and get ready for one hell of a ride. i meant every word. i do this very rarely so we're

just about out of time so full, please get the book read it for yourself and everything i said i really mean it. great job. what he working on now? are you back at the new yorker? >> and trying to figure out what i want to do now. after you finish a book project like this i went to sleep and get back to work and trying to figure out what will scratch the itch. [laughter] >> you don't need to sleep you have been through one helluva process. small pleasures. you will know in a few months you will feel a it's about >> it's all about getting the right story. something hit you and you done it. is this your first book?

>> second. i wrote a book about pakistan as well but this was far more personal and public. >> you will know. something will come across your desk or you will read something and you will be short, three paragraphs and you have the instinct to know this is a book, and then you let it sit for a while and if you still think it's a book a month later that it is a book because you've done it and your approach and you're really, really talented. for all of you listening, thanks a lot. get some sleep. it's now 3 a.m. in london and you deserve some rest. i'm on a west coast where it's a very boring 7:00 but it's good to see it again. and thanks everyone. appreciate. >> thanks bromance. appreciate it. it's been fun. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> this afternoon president biden will talk about the progress of the u.s. troop withdrawal from afghanistan. according to the pentagon it's about 90% complete under a deal negotiator under former president trump. watch live coverage of president biden's remarks at 1:45 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> tonight on booktv technology and e-commerce. >> booktv is tonight starting at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> saturday on "the

communicators." >> republicans and it democrats identified tacking big trust them all different angles. and i trust is them. they have both go list on we need tougher at the trust laws, we need to use and such trust enforcement in order to graphitic companies but they both had very different reasons for doing so, even though they circled us on the same solution. for democrats it's in beirut and a sort of very typical for democrats, animosity toward big businesses in general and skepticism about corporations in general and need to shrink them down to size. and for republicans it's really tied to this sort of culture war against technology companies in general where they perceive them as being biased against conservatives either in the way a moderate content or in their corporate culture. and so it's really tied to the general feeling that tech companies are out to get them.

>> watch "the communicators" with reason magazines elizabeth nolan brown on her recent article the bipartisan antitrust crusade against big tech saturday 6:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> author eric berger looked at the grip of entrepreneur elon musk and history of his rocket company spacex in his new book "liftoff." the blue willow bookshop in houston host this event. >> welcome everyone. n my name is valerie koehler and on thend owner of blue willow bookshop in houston, texas. i know we are people joining us from all over the country and possibly even beyond the world. i'm thrilled to be here with, to introduce an icon of our staff. where so thrilled that they're going to be joining us tonight. partner