>> booktv is tonight starting at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> up next new yorker writer nicholas schmidle on the creation of the space tourism company virgin galactic. the stories of its test pilots, engineers and leaders. this is hosted by vroman's bookstore in pasadena, california. >> hello, everyone. my name is mac and i want to thank you all on behalf of vroman'san bookstore. were happy to have nicholas schmidle will be conversation with buzz bissinger discussing his new book "test gods: virgin galactic and the making of a modern astronaut." tonight he that does include a q&a portions or if you like to ask nicholas a question, you can click the ask the question at the bottom and we'll get that went into the the event. t lastly if you want to purchase

this book go ahead and click the green button and it will take you there. i will get out of the way and let them take over. thank you both so much. >> thank you. >> nick, reading from whatever this is, this screen. for those listening, nic is calling in from london so it's 2:00 in the morning, is that correct? >> it is, exactly. >> if it's comatose, does make sense will forget them. i'm tsuda as questions to a to ask questions because i read this book from beginning to end and fell in love with it. it's called of course "test gods." there's so many different moves to it. it's a swashbuckling story, sort of like compassed with excitement, a story of speed and a story of richard branson is one of the greatest personalities that we know of. it's a story of nicks father and what a very, very complex relationship that we will talk about. i got to know nick, of nick in 2011 when he wrote the best and

i read the new yorker because i'm a journalist, i did in his come he wrote this incredibly reconstruction of the bin laden raid when bin laden was killed and they kept saying how the hell did he get that? detail was incredible. i met him in person when he was teaching at princeton and his kind enough to send me a copy of the book. i will say i get a lot of requests for blurbs normally when i do them i read, i don't know, ten pages, 15 pages, 20 pages. this i read, couldn't stop reading it. i just found it beautifully written, exciting, much like the right stuff. but in a different era, the speed of branson and virgin galactic and the future of space and the future of space travel. jumping into it, what sparked her interest in this? i know you at the new yorker at the time. waser it 2014? >> that's what i get started.

so look, thank you. this is truly an honor to be in conversation and buzz has been a lifetime hero of mine. we'll get to this later but one of come when i started reading and one of the pivotal points by dedicated what is going up was friday night lights. i kind of sat down, when i thought about this project from the beginning it was how do i take the subject matter of the right stuff and how do i approach it with kind of friday night lights? lights? and that really started in 2014 which is a critical and pivotal moment for me on halloween 2014, virgin galactic was find a supersonic test flight and this spaceship just to show real quick on the

cover, they have a very unique airlines system which uses a wide wing mothership to carry this spaceship aloft to 45000 feet much like the explains. at that point, the mothership drops and pulls away and the two tech pilots inside the spaceship which is also distinguished from the other primary rocket companies which are mostly automated and vertically launched, they like the rocket it flies horizontally and then enters a steep near vertical ascent. so on this particular morning in october 2014, the copilot ignites the rocket and seconds into the flight commits an

unthinkable error. essentially pulls the emergency brake on the highway. >> how fast was a going at that point quick. >> .eight mock almost approaching mock one. at mach one on either side of that is when they called the transonic sewn - - zone like this airspeed it is a crazy moment on either side of mock one in which unexpected and narrow predictable aerodynamic forces exert themselves on the vehicle so spaceshiptwo has a unique feature where the tailbone rotates up and the reason for this is that upon reentry they needed to figure out a way to have careful

controlled reentry and the idea imagine a 30 of that fold up like a taco and then it would float down like a shuttlecock. they said under no circumstances unlock that feather but for some reason the copilot did that. the aerodynamic forces shredded the vehicle apart in midair. >> the pilot and copilot died. >> the copilot was killed. the pilot miraculously survived. there is no ejection seat. somehow he wiggled out of his seat and pulled the parachute, landed in the middle of the desert and

survived. i remember getting the news alert that they on my phone and after reading the first paragraph wanting to stop because there were so many built-in assumptions in that article. richard branson company crashes in the desert. weight. there is a british billionaire who owns a spaceship company with a winged spaceship flying with test pilots flying supersonic and crash? the stakes seemed unmistakably high that that was the moment for me i went to my editor at the new yorker and said we have to write about this. this is insane. and the question was it sounds cool but can we get real access? so then my next trip was to go out to california to talk to

then vice president of the company to figure out if i could get real access and how i could embed with them. >> i'm always curious about that. how did that conversation go? access is a double edged sword. they were they reluctant or excited or did they want assurances from you? then there goes a great idea how did this conversation go how much work did it take? >> it was a little bit of work. they were surprised on - - surprisingly receptive because one of which they had come off of this horrific crash. i said i wanted to get in there when emotions were raw and watch them work and watch them build a new vehicle from scratch.

and at that point the company's pr primarily had been focused on the glitz and the glamour of this five-star experience they were offering. most of that is driven by the commercial office in london. and mike moses, now president of the company former vice president sought as an opportunity to tell the story of the men and women out there turning the wrenches flying the ship. so he was surprisingly receptive to the idea. but the other piece is that the public affairs woman at the time was a huge fan and i told her i into right friday night lights. [laughter] so that also help me get me

across the finish line. but there was one other piece at that point the pilot pool this five people one of the pilots had flew with my dad i knew 30 years ago. i had not seen them in 25 years. but when i found out he worked at virgin galactic i met with him and i gave him my spiel how i work and how i would do this and how they new yorker fact checking apparatus he said we've had a lot of stuff written about us and so much of it is false. so he went to mike moses and said i don't own it personally. but if we let someone in, at least it comes from decent

stock. >> your father was the original maverick? [laughter] he was a kick ass pilot for the marines. >> he was. he was. at the time was a three-star marine general in charge of all aviation for the marine corps. interestingly the three stars was that at his age still in his early sixties at that point and was still flying single speed fighter jets. so yes. he was a legend in the marine corps got one of the very few distinguished flying crosses permission the goal for for this incredibly ball the mission in bosnia 1994 so he

is a legend in the marine corps. >> by the way there are so many components to this book but one of the things i like about it is it is fascinating and i have no engineering background but how they put this machine together what works and what doesn't but another component is a very complex relationship which is ironic to your dad and for those out there who have not read the book and i hope you buy it, but then you crash the porch on - - the portion a ditch. >> [laughter] when the fact checker ran this he said i have no recollection

of that. that was my sophomore year of high school. i had to figure out a way to get the repairs done there was a tailor in the radiator we had to get repaired by the time he got home. >> do you fly quick. >> i don't. >> your dad is one of the greatest pilots in the history of the marine corps, he loves to fly you like fine because you're doing the book, was that rebellion? i don't want to follow in his footsteps? i think he went to afghanistan and pakistan and was out there in the mountains you are trying to get into the pakistani taliban and why not? >> i don't know it just never

quite sunk in. and i realize one of the things i realized in the process of writing this book that i wasn't really interested in it because of flight or aviation but because i was interested in the aviators. and that is i think even now at one point i started to go out to california for the book one of the pilots said you are out here all the time there's an opportunity for you to get your pilots license. i thought about it and then for some reason i can't explain it but it doesn't resonate with me i flew with the pilots from virgin galactic and then they come down i say that is cool. but in help me understand the experience to write about it better but not something that

animated me. and in some ways too many people as inexplicable as making this crazy mistake but one cannot understand how someone who grew up in my household could not love aviation want to fly. >> was at every determined why he did that? >> no. i remember reading that thinking this makes no sense as a type of mistake i would make. but did anyone ever determine? >> there was an extensive review by the ntsb investigation. the conclusion at the end no one knows. they spoke to his wife they tried to figure out if he was tired or distracted but the

workload during that boost portion is extraordinarily high. even with a test pilot community there is a high degree of respect because in those 60 seconds there is so much to pay attention to that margin of error is so thin. >> that very little is automated. that is interesting. >> it's like a paper card with a rocket motor shoved in the back as a piloting experience, there is nothing like flying spaceshiptwo. nothing is comparable. but it does raise questions about the viability of the business. >> i'm curious about that and

one thing i want to mention to the viewers what is cool about the book is he is telling a story. here is a company run by a very flamboyant individual richard branson with virgin airlines and many other things. he will establish a face court one - - a space core but he does it and then there is a horrific crash and it's the story of a company trying to recover from that crash and see if they can build the perfect spaceship but before we talk about branson, tell me about the protagonist, how did you get to him? i think he knew of your father? >> yes. when i got out to mojave, i was looking for someone who can help me tell the story. once i realized i would get this unique access and how a

string that together in a compelling way. and he had flown the first three power plays but not the fourth i later found out that fourth flight the pilot who made the error and died was his best friend so immediately i thought there is a super compelling storyline so i met mark and he told me he had been chasing the astronaut dream his whole life at age four he watched john glenn take his maiden flight he tells us that that's what i want to do and become an astronaut. most fathers would humor their children and say anything you want. but then he tells his son no

way no son of his will ever become an astronaut because they come from military and no son of his will ever serve in the military. >> i forgot about all that. >> so all good rebellious teenagers goes and joins the marine corps then joins nasa and the air force chasing the astronaut dream before he gets to the company that's contracted to build the spaceship for virgin galactic. so when i first met him we sat down at a pub near his house and i explained to him that i saw him as a character. immediately to me he felt recognizable like we could talk about this later about what qualities i saw of my father in him but interestingly i didn't know this at the time but he also

knew my dad. my dad was his flight restructure and human arizona and he said you remind me of somebody else in a new your dad so we are often asked as journalist why we pick a topic and why we are ready to stick with something for five or six years. and write a book about it one of the interesting revelations was that we are not the only ones taking sometimes we come to a subject and sometimes the subject comes to us that he lived a phenomenal life and to help tell that story. and i arrived at just the right time and since we had become really good friends.

he has read the book. host: what did he think? you went pretty deep with him. >> after the new yorker piece which was raw some people said to him what are you thinking? are you still cooperating with this guy? but i think he felt like i was fair and i understood him and all of the personal stuff about his broken marriage and failed relationship with his kids. host: that was wrenching and a great part of the book. >> thank you. host: that is personal and you guide deep within and once again readers, the back story what he went through in his marriage and really with his

kids is poignant isn't the right word but very deep. and it shows his flaws and those are much more interesting than perfection. >> thank you and the notion of the modern astronaut and that is the commercial space industry but every other portrait of an astronaut is the set job perfect complexion and character. >> like the john glenn stereotype. >> totally and here he was willing to own up to all of these political fallibility's and let this reporter rummage around in his e-mail looking for salacious details. and i told him. and has nothing to do with the company.

if you don't let me see the moments of tragedy and the difficulties than the moment of triumph at the end for you personally and for the company will not have the same pay off. there were times where people tried to tell me a leaving or them a meeting or something was happening that was sensitive i said these are the moments that will reveal that big moment in the end when you fly to space and that's the same argument i made to mark throughout. so you let someone into the difficulties than it makes the success at the end much more clear. host: how did mark remind you, let's talk about your dad. were you intimidated?

i know he was away and deployed a lot did you know him that well? >> that's a great question. intimidated? he was emotionally distant but a powering figure. and were not talking push-ups every morning. my dad's intensity came from the fact that he always wanted to do things differently and more intense. it wasn't just hunting but hunting wild boar's and hunting with a bow and arrow not just a regular bow and arrow but a long bow with arrows that he flashed in our garage with a 357 magnum strapped to his leg in case they charged.

that is how he hunted. [laughter] host: not a saturday afternoon but do want to go hunting with me this weekend? sure. 3:00 o'clock in the morning with the hour-long drive that we toe the bow in get out and then drive to the martian the dark for an hour then you pull into the marsh and get out and we stopped to the mud. when you are near 14 you think this sucks. it's way too early. host: for those who don't know when you were beginning to be a reporter you did some really hair-raising stuff. you were challenging life in your own right so it seems in a different way. >> i f

>> he's so macho. >> it'sabout the thing . he didn't exude warmth, but my mom more than made up for it. my mom is the heartbeat ofthe family . what i have tried to reconcile and reckon with is i always knew that my dad was setting this expectation for us, for my brother and i as we got older. so as i'm writing this i'm thinking about my relationship with my dad and with my and saying i'm much more present, i much more available . i go back and say dad is a tyrant still but i'm much more present but how do you do both?

how are you physically present and war and also not end up being this powering figure that yourkids while striving to impress ? so i knew when mark stucky got into his relationship with his i could see it both ways.i know how difficult it was for his son to be living son and, he says we're estranged, hedoes to me . i had a six-year-old three-year-old. i could never imagine. . so it's a tough thing. my dad is incredibly inspiring. constantly wanted to live up to his expectations . and there's no part of it i think -- i almost appreciate

therelationship more now than i did then . >> were you all over the place? >> in the us. because ofwhere the marine corps space and bases are we were betweenbeaufort carolina , we had three airports and use so . you will not arizona is comparable to mohave and it's awful middle of nowhere thing. then an increasing amount of timein northern virginia . those were the main nodes where i havebetween . >> let's talk about branson and in talking about grandson that's another important part of the book . at the beginning, i guess the question is was this really a lot and as the project went on, you realize no.

branson is really serious. personally, i know he spent billions of dollars but these are very hard charging guys, challenging the future and obviously there's the lawn must what was? was it for publicity? was it was you something new? >> i think he was very day. >> surprisingly, frankly. >> here's the reason why and it's important to go back and realize the centrality of this boutique aviation firm first bill spaceships 21 as its predecessor. this explains why my alsbury made a mistake in 2014 widener work on these things into the spaceship. we rely.

contest to the first $10 million to the first private legal they spacecraft reached the west in two weeks. contest in 2004, the contest is a bout to expire here comes ongail composites, this small aviation firm and they don't listing which is a smaller shifting night just a smaller version of what do they, spaceshipone those displaced three times your makes it to line in two weeks . with this $10 millionprize . that you can do this branson comes around and says i know, rosa million dollars project with the virgin logo on the side spaceshipone is to mission to build him a bigger

version of this craft. it didn't seem like a lot. it might have seems like a lot before spaceshipone didis based on this there is anything . sales, hot crazy offers from they had just one raw. so this is the central challenge because what composites did and has done, and anyone who spends themuseum knows scaled composites has more design than anyone else. >> he's a remarkable character. >> he's a genius. so their whole thing is buildingprototypes . they don't put a lot of failsafes into their vehicles . so now you have this company

is trying to hold a survival space tourism vehicle. you can see that that's a recipe for disaster in some ways. they don't build redundancies . a gold redundancies they need to be there but there ebecause they need to be there and merging dlawyers these two companies, so the class between those two i found fascinating so branson had good reason to believe and it's hard to know where branson's head is now. he recently sold off $150 million worth of personal stock shares and burgeoned lactic and you know, virgin galactic, it's hard to say.

they have more money now than ever that because they went public year and a half ago. >> i was wondering what the status is. >> before they went public they had like $80 million in cash and cash reserves left in their accounts. and they're spending $20 million a month so money was going to becomean issue very quickly . they went public . now there's still spending 20, 25 million, so they have $60 million in cash . you have a long road 2and what they can continue to figure this out. but the fact that branson has pulled his money out recently or a large chunk of it raises question as to where his head is now as to the viability of this whole venture. >> is it a viable concept west and mark reading a lot about elon musk and he's doing andhow much progress, is it really a viable concept ?

you can get people who want to do it and paid entrance fee but can't work? >> i think it can work for elon musk. i think it's doable. the challenge that virgin galactic has is the configuration just leaves it explodes to so many more -- it leaves it so much more exposed. you have a man inbethe loop . you can have the most extremely well qualified and trained pilot and sometimes they still havebad days . and also t, this isn't an airplane company that builds a spaceship and this is not a spaceship company that builds aspaceship . scaled composites dna is an aircraft company.

so the vertical takeoff and vertical launch programs blue origin, virgin galactic's main competitor in the space x use just seems to be, there prognosis of where they will be in two years is still infused with math this magical thinking that they're going to be flying weekly flights. if the mothership goes down for any time they're screwed. so that's the top-down view of where the viability is in thecoming years . >> i want to tell people who are out there we're open to questions so pop them in please. a few people have commented just from joe labs, they

actually caught them in how to get access to pakistan, to help give them get access to virgin galactic . we've got to get pakistan in there somewhere and someone else i think it was joe, you was the son of a mennonite pastor . he loved the airplanes as well but he didnot join . the military. you do this book h, when you set out to do the new yorker piece for youanticipating it would be a book ? >> or did it grow into a book . >> i knew after the first couple of trips i knew the level of access i had the fact that they were letting me in on these meetings and record these meetings and the granularity and the detail and the scale and the ambition of what they were trying to do helped me relatively it's lesoon assume there was a book potential there. so but it took a while to kind of russell. it took a while to figure out

what the story was. the first couple of virgins, it had too many characters. it was too flat. i couldn't figure out where the ark was. so it took me a while to continue to winnow out everything that wasn't stucky and figure out what enhances his story. the magazine piece enhance the story and what doesn't would get it out and when i come back to the bookit was all , you mentioned earlier wasn't just one episode after another area it was helpful to have his story at the spine and figure out what sort of feedsinto it . what do you need to know in terms of history and back story to be able to further understand his story . >> that's an enormous trip, that is not fiction and these are things i rather grapple with in every book isithow do you balance the character . combined with the spokes and i see it as a bicycle wheel and you have the hub and then you have the spokes. but do the spokes get in the

way of the narrative? i think we're drawn to character but on the other hand books, books are wonderful because they have context and if you don't put in some of the history, some of that other stuff doesn't have the context buti know you pulled it off . really really nicely. and really well. now, this is in the afterword and i was curious. i was curious as to just emotionally, theypull access on you .mo they go for it in 2014. 2018 mark moses is now the president and he says okay, you're done. was that in response to the new yorker piece? are they nervous or trying to hide something. you've been there for four years. what happens. >> there were, the idea was always that i would stick with them until they flew

their fifth power flight. i wanted to stick with them until they flew this first rocket powered flight after they built a new spaceship . i knew there was something, i knew there was something that was different that was going to affect the relationship. there were a couple of warnings, on the morning of that flight in april 2018 i have up until that point not been denied access. i had not been told i couldn't come into a single meeting . i would ask, they'd say sure. there was one occasion they were talking about like a man powered human resources thing where they said you can't record. you can listen for context but this is the only meeting you can't record. that's what happened and i was walking in and i was part entry and the person who barred my entry was this guy named steve as borough. >> he is i think employee number one. he is commercial class what's

that mean? >> it means when branson came up with this idea, stephen burrell was a guy who was going to market the company and sort of focus on the customer experience. he was the guy, he was, this is what he was selling. and i knew that borough didn't like the fact that i was embedded. he felt borough was very much controlling of the pr narrative. he wanted to be focused on the authorship deals, the land rover and grey goose and all of a sudden now there's this reporter that's running around. they say what do we do with this guy. so the magazine piece comes out in august 2018 and mike moses says to me on a monday and i remember on thursday i

called moses and i said i've got this book deal. i'm ready to get back in and moses said okay, give me a week or so. i need to work out the diplomatic things. there are some people thought the magazine.ee he's made what we were doing sounds dangerous and of course i like guys, you've got three engineers killed in a 2007 accident. i'm not the one making it sound dangerous. >> that's ridiculous. so they you know, then it became this fight for the soul of the company in some ways where i'm in one year trying to say i'm going to tell the story and i knew that that richard liked the magazine piece. he said three weeks after the peace came out he said he was

reluctant to do this and he didn't want to be seenas stomping on journalists independence and he appreciated all the time and effort . and we saw there was an opportunity for me to continue doing what i wanted to do and i met him again in december 2018 and he reiterated that but they kept dragging their feet. they kept talking about how they had deals with other books that turned out to be and they were just non-issues . they were making up these things to prevent me from having an in. the critical moment was i have this one on one relationship with branson. he had without telling anyone else in the company invited me down to the british virgin islands and after a couple of days talking about the company, a few days before i was set to leave i to migrate , i should have never mentioned this but i told this pr guy i was on my way to the british virginislands . nearly all the alarms were going off and attenborough called me and said richard not going to be the one to do

this but you can't come. you asked how i felt, i remember being really really scared that i wasn't going to be able to pull this off. i remember my dad having this conversation with my dad that night. he said you've got a book to write. that's the priority. i knew that i had what i needed at that point. i had mark stucky going into space. i had virgin galactic flying first non-test pilot to space in december 2019. and in some ways it was a blessing in disguise because it gave me some distance. let me say okay, i have my material and now i can write about isthis soberly and realistically and i'm no longer fighting for access and in some ways it was the best thing that could have happened but i was really thrown.

>> access for a writer is a double-edged sword. it helps the relationships when you have to you and up liking people so to be able to step back and look at it with silver eyes is tricky. so in a way it's probably good. you can get addicted to access as well. i didn't think about that the fact that they cut it off did enable you to step back. here's a question. how did writing this book affect your own life. you had 18 trips to mohave and your relationship with the book'scharacters and the people in nyour own sphere so to speak .there were some peopletalking to you, some people not. i think , how did stucky feel? >> i think he feels that -- i

know i told him over the course of the writing that i felt like our relationship was different. it wasn't the traditional journalist source, journalist subject relationship . it was , it transcended all those normal boundaries. and there was this moment that brought that to light which is when he tibecame an astronaut, when he flew to space the first time in december 2018 he lands and i'm watching his wife give him hugs and i'm watching his son give him hugs and i was behind his son and i was next up . all right, what's the right thing for me to do because a reporter reaches o?out his hand and says nice job. or you know, like a friend. gives the guy a bear hug. and i reached out and gave him a handshake and it felt just weird instead trial so i reached around with the other arm and gave him a area i felt like he is more than that.

he is a friend and it's really sa unique relationship when you have a friend who you're writing about who knows that you're going to write things that are not complementary, not damaging that i wasn't out to damage him but there were things that didn't make him look right and he was okay with it . he knew what i was talking to his ex-wife what she was going to say wasn't going to make him lookgreat . and. >> but he knew that but and he never, there was never. i asked him for access to everyone and he was cooperative to the end. and you read the book and i think that he feels the only time that he sort of got reserved he said it's hard for me to comment because it's all about me but he, people have written to him very complementary things and said like, you being willing

to cooperate with this process gives me a whole new insight into who you are and i think he feels, he's pleased with the way it turned out. >> what is he doing now? >> is still at virgin galactic waiting to fly hopefully the next rocketship, the next rocketship flight sometime this month . >> any regrets about doing the book, anything you would have done differently. you said you had an assistant researcher, i think a former student according to you really saved you in a lot of places and became a very good reader . when you did yourfirst draft , you read it and we all read our first drafts and then the fear begins to set in. what was the problem? was it you were too much over the map, where there too many characters? was it the narrative wasn't driving the way you wanted it to? how did you go about fixing them? >> the hardest part was

writing about my dad. because i -- the back third of the book was kind of them charging to space came really easy. because it was a combination of natural action and a lot of access and a lot of documentary materials that let me piece together spaceflights with granular detail. the middle third was always my concern. that's that book writer you have talk about this idea middle. how do you sort of maintain that tension and that's where i knew i wanted to introduce thepersonal side of the story . and a former student of mine princeton spoke in the class and she read various versions of that and said i think you probably have 12 pages too much of stuff about your dad were 12 pages too much. about you where it's so clear

these pages that you're trying to figure out what it is you want to say. that's what it was. i knew that my dad was central to me telling the story and why i wanted to come to the story and what i had drawn into the story. lwbut i was always worried it was going to feel pasted on or extraneous and i need to figure out how to make it seem organic and natural and shevery much helped me do that .>> i think it gave the book a really rational, personal dimension ebut you know, it's a narrative issue. did you ever think about getting rid of it ? >> i did. i did. >> it gave the book a diamonds and went about just this happened and that happened. it was something really went to the core of your soulwhich i felt was cool . >> i only thought about doing it when initially when i

bought what kind of book. it didn't come to me really until i sat down and started writing the book because even the magazine, i have this parenthetical about my dad area there were like mediate words in the magazine piece that referred to my dad but i knew in the book i want to blow this out bigger . i wasn't sure how to do it. like you said, test is the one who know my hand and she put things into say you've overwritten that sentence a bit much or sections that digressed too far from the central storyline which is stucky. she said is there a liway to tie him back here? you're going on this digression about adventurism the values you inherited, is there a way to bring stucky's story back here so those narrative reminders, it was helpful because she had been a student of mine. i had imported all the values that i learned over the years and then she in some ways sort of held up a mirror and

said don't forget, this is what you told us class. giving the dose of my own medicine and really, i cannot imagine doing this but without her. >> how long did it take to write this ? >> you were letting it for fouror five years basically . >> two years more or less. honest 18 to august 2020 i was sort of nonstop and then but doing a couple of other things along the way and really when the pandemic i was probably a third of the way intowriting . and then i have been the next seven months just having nothing todo . let me really, i'm not sure i had a lot in my enough time minus a fourth printing for pandemic. >> time is running short but i'm curious, how high do they

go up and what's the top speed? >> this is actually a subject of some controversy the cause most of the world defines space as 100 kilometers and 328,000 feet. virgin galactic is using the u.s. air force's definition of space which is 200 and 64,000 feet.e and so it's still, you look at the pictures. of them lookingdown on the earth . you'rerein space . it's stuff floating in the cockpit. the big blue group is down below. it's face. they're going almost mock three. >> miles per hour, how fast is it?

>> i always wanted to try to grounded. i come back and say give me real numbers, how fast areyou going ? so mock one is roughly give or take about700 miles per hour . so you could extrapolate that but as you're going higher than it's all kind of varying because altitude and airspeed is adjusting and this is where iget into uncomfortable territory . but it's the limitation of my aviation speak. >> but would you say close to 2000 west and mark. >> yes. >> wow . >> listening to stucky describe, i remember the night of the spaceflight what would it feel like? he said that he never felt more sure of anything in his life at that point . knowing mock three he said at a certain point you rumbled through the air and you get into the thinner air and the motor is going, the rocket

motor is burning. you're going nearly 3 times the speed of sound and he said lit felt like a thoroughbred. you could hear the excitement in his voice and i spent that evening with him drinking whiskey at his house . you'll appreciate it . so stucky spent a couple of years in the air force at one of these black sites. one of the area 51 sites. this is one of the more challenging parts to write about the book is he was so cagey talking about the details. that night he said i've got this bottle of whiskey. and cahe said i've been saving it iafor a special moment. he cracks open this bottle of whiskey and he comes back with a rack of shot glasses and the shot glasses, each of them are embossed with one of the squadrons from the area

51 sites. and he won't answer questions about any of them. he'll just give me these knowing smirks when i say i think i've readabout this one, the dark nights, what are they going again ? he says i'm not going to go to jail for this kind of process so he takes out this bottle of whiskey. he asks me how i wanted it and he says let's take a shot . i don't drink whiskey. i haven't drank whiskey since college. so i think we're taking shots, not that were going to set whiskey outof shot glasses . and i take this shot and he looks at me. i couldn't tell if he was offended or impressed or what it was and he said no, i meant we were going to sip it and i got back to my hotel and looked it up in the was a $600 bottle of whiskey . i felt like such a bumpkin. wthat was the relationship because the night of his

crowning achievement, it's me and him and his wife sitting around thekitchen island table talking about the day . so it was a very unique and memorablerelationship . >> you went up in some flights, how high did you get ? >> a half this little acrobatic trainer aircraft called extra that they fly up there and it builds up their d tolerance and they do spends and all that so they brought me up in that thing and i went flying with them four times and it kicked my ass. and it made me think i was going to vomit and all that but we probably only went 10,000 feet high but you go 10,000 feet and then a intentionally installed aircraft and youspent outside down for 1000 feet or two and you look like you're going to crash . in april out of that and for them it's just like going to the gym, this is what they do . >> how was it for youwestern mark . >> no, i didn't vomit but it

was very close. it was externally close and i have stmy little sort of vomit bag under my leg in the aircraft and i'm their rate to reach for it at a moments notice but i managed to hold myself together. >> i just want to read what i wrote because i needed. this is ford's test gods, it's hard to knowwhere to begin . it's compulsively readable, brilliantly recorded with unprecedented access and kick. [bleep] adventure story of the last of the greatest swashbucklers are addicted to speed and altitude. it's a journey unlike any i've ever read and its pulsating as a poignant personal tail. what makes a man routinely risk his life for a living 18 miles above the clouds what does he leave behind on earth . cosmic questions with elegance and beauty and faith

. just wrap yourself in and get ready for one hell of a ride. i meant every word i don't think, i do this very rarely so. there, or just about outof time . we. read it for yourself and everything i said in that blur, i really me reedit a great job. what are you working on now, are you back at the new york times ? >> trying to figure out whati want to do . i could use some advice for you . i both want to sleep and i also want to get back to work and i'mtrying to figure out what's going to scratch that itch . i look for -- i'm trying to figure out -- >> you don't need to sleep but you've been through a helluva process. i would go for small pleasures and then you'll know area i take too long in between books. they take a lot out of me. but you'll feel it, it's all about getting the rightstory

. something with you and you don't. is this your first book? >> i wrote a book about pakistan as well this was personal. >> something's going to ncome across your desk where you're going to read something and it's going to be short and three paragraphs and you'll have the instinct. this is the book and then you will exit for a while andif you still think it's about a month later that's a book . you're a pro and you're really talented. anyway, for all of you listening, thanks a lot. get some sleep. it's 3 am in london and you deserve a rest on the west coast where is a very boring 7:00 but it's good to see you again thanks everyone. >> it's been fun. >> this afternoon president biden will talk about the progress of truth withdrawal from afghanistan. it's about 90 percent complete under a deal negotiated under former president trump. watch live coverage of client's remarks at 1:40 5 pm

eastern on c-span2. >> tonight, technology and e-commerce. we start with the author of a biography of amazon founder jeff baeza's. then senator josh hawley on his book the tyranny of the tech. also a conversation on the winners and losers from e-commerce with the author of the book fulfillment area tv is tonight starting at 8 pm eastern on c-span2. >> on american history tv, on sunday, book tv brings you the latest and nonfiction books and authors reedit television for serious readers. discover, explore. weekends on c-span2.

>> the papers this morning talking about the former president going before cameras announcing this lawsuit inning it at social media companies and their practices. here's a bit from president trump yesterday. >> today, in conjunction with the america first policy institute, i'm filing as the lead class representative a major class action lawsuit against the big tech giants including facebook, google and twitter. as well as their ceos mark zuckerberg, siddhartha j and jack dorsey. three real nice guys. [applause] >> asking the us district court for the southern district of florida to order an immediate halt to social media companies illegal, shameful censorship of the american people anat