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thoughts, and we will be using the youtube chat, so if you want to get a little practice now, put your hometown and city -- hometown, city, state in there so i can give you a shoutout later on in the program. now, i'm delighted to introduce your keynote speaker and conversation today, civil rights attorney fred gray. preacher and activist, who continues to practice law in alabama today. he litigated several major civil rights cases in alabama, including some such as browder versus gale, that reached the supreme court. he represented rosa parks, martin luther king, john lewis, among many other civil rights movement luminluminaries. his success makes much of today's textbooks for law students. i could go on. let's hear from mr. gray. are you with us?

>> thank you very much. >> terrific. we're happy to have you today. how are you doing? >> i'm doing fine. and i want to thank the foundation and those of you who are responsible for having this program. i sat and listened and saw some of the incidents from slavery time forward and just happy to be a part of your program here today. thanks for the invitation. >> absolutely. we're honored. i want to jump right in. we talked a few days ago -- i have had the honor to read your biography and see some of your other interviews, so i'm -- i have my own questions, but we will get some audience questions along the way. i wanted to start with a quote i pulled out of your biography that really struck me. you opened up one of your chapters with the words "segregation was the order of the day. when i was admitted to practice law in alabama, in september of

1954, we were segregated from the cradle to the grave, from the toilet to the train, from the courtroom to the classroom." that really struck me. as a first step in our conversation, can you take us back to help our audience understand a little bit about your background, what it was like to grow up in montgomery, and your experience that started it all off? >> well, you have to understand that i was born december 14th, 1930. that's over 90 years ago. in montgomery, alabama, which was the cradle of the confederacy, the first president of the confederacy, was inaugurated there. but as a youngster growing up in -- my father died when i was

2. i was the youngest of -- am the youngest of five children. we had -- i had very little contact with white people when i was growing up, say, from the 1st through the 8th grade. we lived in a black community. we went to a black church. all of our neighbors were black. the only contact we would usually have with white people is that our parents would work for them, and that's the way it was. we had separate schools. we had separate everything. and not only did we have those and did we grow up under those conditions, but the streets usually were unpaved. there was very little water. at least you would have to go to a central place where there may be a hydrant where you would get

water, so african americans lived a very subservient life to that of white americans. that is the montgomery that i knew and i had very little contact with any white persons for many years. >> at what point in your life did -- we had a program a week or so ago about the tulsa race massacre. obviously before that there was the red summer. in our video before, we showed some of the lynching maps. obviously there was race violence in alabama. what was your personal experience that sort of drew you into becoming a civil rights lawyer as you beautifully say your goal was -- it was and is

to continue to destroy segregation. >> when i grew up in my community, there was really no discussion about lynching. there was no discussion really about segregation, about white people. we knew that we were black and that we worked for white people and that we went to black schools. my mother was very religious, and my father was very religious, so i had a religious background. and i guess my first experience really with white people, probably was when i met the lady my mother worked for, a lady named betty aldridge. she did domestic work. to show you the kind of relationship they had, when i was born, i was born as fred lee

gray. but my mother was working for ms. betty, and ms. betty told her when she came back to work after i was born, she thought that my middle name should be david. you know what my mother did? my mother officially changed my name from lee to david. so i grew up under an all black environment, and i was very religious. one of our preachers was from tennessee. and they said when i was young, because i was baptized in a church in montgomery, and when i was 8, and i understand, i baptized cats and dogs, the preacher said there were about two things that a black boy in alabama at that time professionally could look forward to, and that was he could be a preacher or a

teacher. and so since i was religiously inclined, this preacher knew about a church of christ boarding school in nashville, tennessee, for black boys who wanted to be preachers, and he told my mother, even though she didn't have any money, that she ought to try to send me to that school, so i could learn how to preach. and his name was -- [inaudible]. and he did. i grew up in the ghettos of montgomery till i was 8 years old and attended the school, when i was in the 8th grade, our preacher took me to the nashville, to the nashville christian institute, the church of christ, a black school there, to learn how to be a preacher. and apparently -- and i still have come in contact with no

white people, except at that school, while it was a black school, with all black students, we had two teachers who were white. one named lambert campbell, mrs. lambert campbell, she taught us public speaking, because we were trying to learn how to be a preacher. and there was jw brandt who taught us the bible. so that was my first real direct contact with them. when we got -- the preacher who was the president of our school decided his responsibility was to go and recruit students and raise money, and he went to these black churches and decided that he would take some of these little boy preachers, let them preach. they would go to these black churches, and he would tell them you send us your boy, and we'll send you a man back.

i got to be a talented pretty good little preacher because he took me around, so i went throughout the southeast. when i finished high school, i knew a little something about preaching. i came back home, lived on the west side of montgomery. i was going to attend alabama state college for negroes. that's what it was then. it is now alabama state university. it's on the east side of town. so i had to then ride this public transportation system, the montgomery city line. i would have to walk about three or four blocks to where the bus stop was, and then we would go on the bus, from the west side of town, through downtown, to the east side of town, where alabama state -- so i became in touch with riding the buses. i found a lot of our people --

while i didn't have any problems myself, there were many people who were mistreated on the buses. the first 10 seats were always reserved for white people. and if there weren't enough for those first 10 seats, then they would have the rest of them, the black people would be asked -- the bus driver would ask the ones in the first four seats to get up, and they would have to get up, and sometimes they would take your money in the front. you have to go back out and get in the back so you wouldn't have to walk through white people. i found out then that there was some real problems about how black people were being treated, and i heard about a man who had had an altercation on the bus, and as a result, he was killed. i decided that in addition to preaching, and they told me that

lawyers helped people to solve problems, and i thought that black people in montgomery had problems at that time. and i made a personal commitment while i was a student at alabama state college, between december of 1947 and may of 1951, that i was going to finish alabama state, and i was going to become a lawyer because they told me lawyers helped to solve problems. and i wasn't going to apply to the university of alabama because i knew everything was segregated, and they wouldn't accept me. but i would finish get enrolled in a law school, take advantage of the program that the southern states had where they would pay a portion of the tuition, room, and board, for blacks, if they wouldn't go to the university of

alabama or auburn university for graduate school and professional school, but those courses they could not get at the historical black school, alabama state, alabama a&m, and tuskegee. and then the other part of that was i was going to take advantage of some money they would give us in order to go out of state to take those courses to keep us from going to the white schools. and -- but i was going to become a lawyer. this is the part i didn't tell anybody. i told people i wanted to be a lawyer. i didn't tell them what kind. the secret was i was going to finish law school, come back, take the alabama bar exam, pass the bar exam, become a lawyer, and destroy everything segregated i could find. that was my commitment as a youngster, an upper teenager in the cradle of the confederacy, and my introduction to becoming

a lawyer, and now i've been one for over 65 years. >> that's an extraordinary story. obviously just the beginning of some of the things we want to dig into today. the law school -- i think some of your fellow alumni are on this. if you want to give a shout to your law school, where you attended? >> oh, yes, i attended what was then western reserve university in cleveland. it is now case western reserve university. it merged with case institute of technology which was right next door and a very good merger for them. that's where i went to law school. that was my first experience of living in an integrated society.

i lived on campus in one of the homes they had. they had a house mother there. there were blacks and whites who lived there. however, just so happened, that the two black students who lived in the room were assigned in the same room, and he was from monrovia, liberia, but i also at reserve, i had a very good experience and had no problems at all, but i had to convince myself because this is the first time i was in a white environment that i would be able to really compete with white students. >> it worked out very well for you and for all of us. let's fast forward a little bit

to you pass the bar exam, which i know from reading your biography was not -- there were a few hurdles along the way, to getting as we approach, you didn't have a big law firm to walk into alabama. you started out on your own, you know, with some help of a few others, but let's get sort of up to the boycott and some of the real traction here which i think a lot of folks have tuned in to hear about. now, the montgomery bus boycott, before that, nine months before that, claudette colvin didn't give up her seat, and i know there's been, you know, over the last probably five or ten years, a little bit more press about that, but why -- you were there on the ground. why didn't that start the boycott? >> because that was -- a lot of things happened between that

enrollment in western reserve university law school and my graduation and preparing myself so that i could pass the alabama bar exam. i was able to get that done, and after getting it done, i had met e.d. nixon, who was a friend of our family and who had been president of the naacp in montgomery. and he had encouraged me to go to law school because he was always trying to help black people who had problems with whites and trying to improve conditions. so when i got back, he helped me to get lawyers so i could be able to take the bar exam, and of course once i took the bar exam, and i took the ohio bar exam first, in june and then the alabama bar in july, just in

case, and in august i was told that i had passed both. of course i had no intention of practicing law in ohio, so i'm back in alabama. i passed the bar exam. lawyers couldn't advertise like they can now. so when i got back, there were people that i knew, worked with me, i had an open house at my law office so people would know i was there. and it wasn't long -- and i had met mrs. rosa parks who was the secretary to the montgomery branch of the naacp. she was also the youth director, and i had known her from the time i was in at alabama state. so with those, we ended up

opening up the office, and mrs. parks assisted in that. i found out that she was working in the department store a block and a half from where my office was located, so we talked every -- she would usually bring her little lunch to my office during the middle of the day, and i didn't have any clients at that time. we talked about problems. we talked about the buses. we talked about if a person had a problem and was asked to get up off the seat, what they should do, if they didn't want to do it, and thens of only about six months -- and then it was only about six months after i started practicing, that claudette colvin, the 15-year-old girl who lived the northeast section of montgomery was arrested for refusing to get up and give her seat to a white person.

when she did that, her parents didn't know anything about me because i'd only been back for six months. but their preacher knew about e.d. nixon, and they had heard about e.d. nixon, so mr. nixon recommended to claudette's parents that they get this young black lawyer to represent her, when she was arrested, and i did. and at that time, i thought this was a good opportunity for me. this is my first case, but i now have to raise all these issues in this case, before the judge who was the judge of the court of -- the juvenile court of montgomery county, and i raised these issues, and they had charged her with being a

delinquent and in assaulting an officer because when she was arrested, she didn't voluntarily just walk off. they almost had to drag her. she didn't resist, and she didn't fight back, but the judge listened to me, but in the final analysis, he found her to be guilty -- found her to be a delinquent and placed her on unsupervised probation. i was ready then because i knew ultimately we were going to change the laws, we were going to have have to go to court -- we were going to have to go to court, and i was prepared to do that. but i'm not sure the montgomery community, the black community even was quite ready for it, but there were some people as a result of that case, joanne robinson who taught at alabama state, and i had known her since the time i was in college there,

she had an appointment with the bus company officials and with the city officials about the claudette colvin case, and that -- while african americans were about 75% of the patrons being mistreated. she wanted to get them better treatment. they said they were sorry about what happened and they would see that didn't happen again, but that was the end of that. but i knew as a result of that, this there were a number of people in montgomery, black people, jo ann robinson, e.d. nixon, mrs. parks, and claudette colvin and her family who wanted something done about the buses. and mrs. robinson after setting up that meeting, she had had a personal experience back in 1948 on the buses. we would keep a record of it,

and i knew there were some people who wanted it, and there would be a later date and another opportunity, and that opportunity came with mrs. parks on december 1, 1955. >> that's a great segue, and i know you said you are meeting with her, having lunch, so, you know, one of the perceptions is she was this sort of quiet timid seamstress who just decided one day she was tired and didn't want to get up. but in fact, you said she was involved in the naacp, and the two of you were talking about what to do, whatnot to do, so that day when she sat down, were you ready or waiting for the call? tell us a little bit about that. >> so on december 1st, was a typical december day in alabama.

i told mrs. parks, when we finished, that i had to go out of town, so i kind of wanted her to know that i would not be there, and while she never told me that if she received the opportunity, that she was not going to get up, but i believe all the time that if that opportunity presented itself to ms. parks, she wasn't going to push for it, but if it came, she would be an ideal person, and she would do everything that you would want a client to do and still not give up the seat until she's arrested. if arrested, then go ahead, but i wanted her to know that i was not going to be in town that evening. and when i got back from my trip, it was after-office hours, i had a call from ms. parks; i

had a call from my secretary. i had a lot of calls. the first call was ms. parks' call because i had heard that she had been arrested. she told me she had, asked if i would come over to her house so she could tell me what had taken place, and she wanted me to handle her case and said it was set for the following monday. that's what i did. i went over, talked to ms. parks. mrs. parks told me what had taken place and that her case was set to be tried on monday at 8:30 in the city of montgomery. this is now thursday evening. monday is not too far away. i told her don't worry about your case, ms. parks. i'm going to take care of it. i will get back in touch with you over the weekend and get you

prepared for what you need to be prepared for on monday. however, there's another matter that i mentioned to ms. parks. i said ms. parks, you know there's been talk in the community for some time that the community -- this problem is so great, that the community needs to get involved in it. and jo ann robinson, the professor at alabama state, has been a leading person, and she's now chairman of the women's political council, which was an organization of black professional women to improve all conditions for african americans, and she had been talking about doing something, because she had had a problem herself. i told her that i wanted to talk ms. robinson and see whether she thinks -- because i think if we're going to do anything, we need to do it all now. but first i want to go and talk to mr. nixon because he got you

out of jail. i wanted him to know that i'm going to be representing you, you have retained me, and i went from her house to mr. e.d. nixon's house. i told him about my conversation with ms. parks, told him that we needed them to -- i was going to talk to jo ann robinson to see if we at this time would try to get the community involved, so we would have mrs. parks' case on the one hand going on, the community involved, and i left and went over to ms. jo ann robinson's house. it is getting pretty late now on december 1st and early december 2nd. and jo ann and i sat in her living room and made the plans for what we later called a protest and what people called a

bus boycott. but we concluded in her living room that night and early morning was one, the community needs to be involved in it; two, that we need to try to get the community to as a protest so that the montgomery community, black and white, will know that we're serious, having to stay off the buses, at least for a day, as a protest, meet at a church, and decide where we go from there. and that was the second thing. and i said well, that's fine. i said, but if we're going to do that, if they stay off the buses like we want them to do, we're going to have to be prepared to help them get to work and do whatever they need to do in the interim, so we're going to have to have a plank -- to have a plan, and we're going to have those plans all together between

now and monday morning when we're talking about doing this. as a result of that, we concluded several things: one, if we're going to do that, we've got to have a leader, someone to serve as a spokesman. normally e.d. nixon would have been that person, but there was also another man named rufus lewis who was interested in voter registration, and when people get elected, holding them in office to do something while they are there, and that those persons need -- going to need the followers of both of them. so we need to get them. so jo ann says one, i know who the spokesman ought to be. it ought to be my pastor, martin luther king, haven't been in town long, haven't been involved in any civil rights activities, but one thing he can do, he can move people with words. i said fine. i said well, let me suggest

two -- these other two leaders because we need them to be in key roles, e.d. nixon who knew phillip randolph the black labor leader in new york who was president of his union, and if we make him the treasurer, we're going to need money to try to help do all the work that needs to be done and phillip randolph would help to do it, make him treasurer. then rufus lewis, a former coach at alabama state, well respected, was the owner of a nightclub called the citizen's club, and in order to get in that club, you had to be a registered voter. but his wife was the co owner of the largest [inaudible] in town. they have automobiles. they only use those automobiles basically when they have film services. if we make him chairman of the

transportation committee, then his wife along with these others in the state would be able to help to get these people transported in their automobiles. then the only other thing you need, you need a lawyer. that was me. as a result of what we did there, that was the conclusion, martin luther king, to be the chair, the president; e.d. nixon, the treasurer; rufus lewis, the chairman of the transportation committee; and the young lawyer just out of law school to serve as the lawyer for them. we sowed those seeds. jo ann said let's get to a meeting. we will assign responsibilities to each one of us. she said i'm going to get some leaflets out there and say another black woman has been

arrested on the buses. her trial is monday. as a protest, stay off of the buses, and there will be a meeting on monday evening. when the meetings were made, as a result of the seeds that we sowed, and neither one of us, it couldn't be known that we were doing this planning because if she had been known what she was doing, as a teacher at a state-supported school, she would have been fired. she was fired anyway, but it was much later. and i would have gotten disbarred before i got barred good. but the seed was sown. the information was given out. when the buses started on monday morning, very few blacks rode the buses. we had mrs. parks' trial. we knew -- i knew to begin with

that they were going to convict her. i raised the various constitutional issues, got the information i needed from the witnesses from the city during the trial, and i knew the judge was going to find her guilty, which he did. he fined her $10. we arranged for the appeal and then proceeded to make the plans for the mass meeting at the baptist church that night, which introduced dr. king to the nation and to the world, and all in the meantime, there had been meetings held in between it where those persons we had recommended, each one of them were elected to the particular person, and when dr. king spoke that night, and it was announced what was going on, the rest of it was history. and we knew that what we did in

her living room was now something great. we didn't know where it was going, but we knew it was something that needed to be done, and this was the first step. >> what incredible insight. thank you. i am just realizing that i'm in a trance listening to you, and many more questions, and i know our audience has questions as well. i will ask a couple more and encourage your audience to put your questions in the chat, just so you know, mr. gray, we've got folks from new jersey; new york; the greater washington, d.c. area; montgomery; south bend; tuscaloosa, jackson, mississippi; florida; virginia beach; iowa; as mentioned case western reserve as well represented, denver, colorado wilmington massachusetts, a national audience excited to

hear you speak. we have a few questions about martin luther king. i will save that one. but you have a great story about the boy from troy. could you talk a little bit about your introduction to him and your impression of him as a young man? >> yes, john lewis was from troy, alabama, lived a rural area about 50 miles south of montgomery and about 50, 60 miles south of tuskegee. and he had heard about dr. king and read about him in the bus boycott. this is 1958. he wanted to go to troy state, which was a white college in his home county. they wouldn't accept him, and some of the kids down there tried to use the library, and they couldn't use the public library, so he sent a letter to dr. king and said he wanted to talk with him about going to

troy state. dr. king gave him a bus ticket from troy, alabama, round trip to montgomery, and called me and told me when he was going to arrive at the bus station, and if i would go down and bring him to a meeting where he and reverend abernathy was at abernathy's church and talk about the possibility of helping him get into troy state. we talked about it. he told us what the situation was. we found out -- we knew he was a minor. in order -- they were willing to do what it took to file a lawsuit, it would have to be filed by his parents, so he would have to go back and get his parents' consent, and then we would -- i agreed that i would end up filing the suit, if the parents wanted to do so. he went back to troy, and

unfortunately, his parents felt that the pressure that would be brought upon them was too great and that they just would not permit him to file a lawsuit because they had to live there with those people. however, he went on up to nashville. he was going to the seminary up there and became involved in the civil rights movement and ended up being one of the greatest civil rights leaders in the country. and it is unfortunate that we lost him last year. >> i have a question that relates to one of the ones i have been thinking about. you've obviously faced incredible odds with all the segregation policies in place and violence surrounded you, going to martin luther king's house after it was bombed,

following the freedom ride, the greyhound bus ride. you wrote in your book that you were at a meeting at a church, and you poked your head out the window to see the crowds -- mob is probably a better word -- that had amassed and got -- caught a rock or a brick to the side of the head. you seem -- the question from the audience, you remain for decades just calm, cool, and collected in the face of all of this. how do you persist in such a calm state? >> well, actually dr. king had set the example to begin with. he said publicly and privately that our movement must be a non-violent movement. we can't -- we don't have as many guns and we can't get win if we're going to get out. it is hard for a person to continue to beat on you when you

just stand up there and let them do it, but i recognized and i think those of us who had leadership roles then realized that nonviolence is what we have to teach our people and hope they will abide by it, and for the most part, during the early stages of the movement, that did -- the violence took place, but it wasn't one our part. it was on the other part. i did get a little knot on my head as a result of being at the church, but that was a small part of it. many people lost their lives because of it, but it set a pattern so that we could accomplish some of the things that we have accomplished since the time when everything was completely segregated, when i started practicing law in 1954. >> and you were obviously making

a name for yourself, and i would guess -- hazard a guess there were many white lawyers that did not care for that, and so there was i know an effort to disbar you probably more than once. can you tell us a little bit about maybe one of those experiences professionally? >> what was that? i missed that. >> the effort to disbar you, could you talk a little bit about that experience? >> the experience with -- >> to disbar you as a lawyer, because of your work? >> oh, well, because i mentioned to you about claudette colvin, you know, that was the first case that i handled. and we know about rosa parks' case. but because the deep-seated segregation that we had, with a

lot of help along the way, i've been able to file lawsuits that ended up doing away with segregation in public transportation, improving the right to vote, public education, discrimination, bond subsidies, almost every law we've now been able to get declared unconstitutional at all these aspects, and we have done it on a non-violent basis, using the law in order to accomplish those things. and while those of us who were involved in it had some personal problems that we incurred, it didn't stop us from doing it, but the struggle for equal justice continues, and we have to keep trying. >> just for our audience, who

may not be familiar with your whole personal story, the irony here is in 2002, you were elected as the first black president of the alabama state bar association. when you were approached for that, was that stunning to you? was that -- how did you feel? how did that unfold? >> well, actually i never thought about being the president of the alabama state bar because, you know, you're elected by members of the bar. all the lawyers in the state are -- have a vote on it. and my civil rights records and knowing that lawyers in many instances of a state bar association have been instrumental in trying to keep and perpetuate segregation, so i was not going to put myself out there. but there was a white lawyer, white female lawyer in

birmingham, who had gotten us to handle some cases for her in our part of the state. she thought our firm had done a good job, and i had done a good job, and she said fred, you need to be president of the state bar. i said carol, you're crazy. why should i put my head in the news and volunteer to do that? she said well, we're having the bar association annual meeting in birmingham that year, and she said, when you come up here, i'm going to introduce you to some people. she introduced me to some people. they talked with me about the possibility of running. i told them that one, i'm not going to just get out there, but i will listen to what they say, and the only way i will do it is i have to run uncontested because if one of these white

lawyers decide to run against me and talk about my civil rights background, they're going to win, and i'm going to lose, and i don't need that. she did it. i did what they recommended. i was elected to be the first african american president of the alabama state bar. and when you get a letter from the alabama state bar association now, it will say lawyers render service. that's the motto for it. but that was the motto i used when i was president elect in order to get lawyers to realize that we render service, and the bar association sometime later ended up adopting it. we were able to get more diversity on our bar commissioners, and we were also while i was president of the alabama state bar, we started the alabama lawyers hall of

fame. those were three major things that i was able to do as president of the state bar association, and next week, the president of the state bar is going to come here and i understand the alabama state bar is going to give me some sort of resolution and an award, and i'm going to be the speaker for them at the annual convention -- i think it is the 15th of july at a meeting. so it's been a good thing, and i've enjoyed it and tried to be a good lawyer. >> quite an evolution from the very beginning, when you're taking the bar exam to start off. we have a few more minutes, and i have a couple of questions from the audience. have you ever worked with reverend james lawson? >> who? >> reverend james lawson? >> name's lawson? lawson? >> yes. >> where is he from?

>> they did not say. >> didn't say? >> no. >> the name sounds familiar. it's not one that i had had very much work with, but i may have. >> okay. what about reverend james hinton of south carolina? he worked with -- built the case with thurgood marshall that went to the supreme court. did you ever work with reverend james hinton? >> no, i didn't work with him, but thurgood marshall, i did work with, as a matter of fact, when i was retained to represent the montgomery improvement association, i got on the phone and talked to mr. marshall and asked him to let me come up there and talk to him, talk with him and his staff, and for them to help me with the legal work, and the first case that we

filed, browder versus gale was one of the cases that that [inaudible] was counsel of record for me on that case. and of course he went on to become the justice of the supreme court. >> we do have a question. i know you were interested in talking about the tuskegee syphilis study and your work on that, which was ground breaking. can you give us a summary of that? >> i had been filing a lot of suits against the state of alabama for discriminating against african americans and in many instances, the judge had designated the justice department to be a party to it. then i found out in 1972, that the government itself had been engaged in a deadly deception with over 623 african americans

in macon county which tuskegee is county seat in connection with a study of untreated syphilis in the negro males and didn't tell them about it. so i had to then file a lawsuit against them, and of course you can only file a lawsuit against a government, the way they say you can do it, and all the terms and conditions of it, and we finally was able to get that settled, as much as we could, and then later on, i found that there were some people who thought that an apology by the government to those people and to the community should take place. a group had tried to do it, hadn't been successful. i thought of a way of getting those men and having a press conference, and as a result of that press conference, on the 8th of april, 1997, president clinton ended up granting the

apology to them on the 17th of may of 1997. only just a little while afterwards. and then they told me, they said, we want you to do one more thing. we want a permanent memorial in tuskegee so people will know that we have made a contribution to this country. i told them if i live, we'll do that. some 22 years ago, we started the tuskegee and civil rights multicultural center. one of the purposes of it is to have a memorial for those men, and if you come to that center, you will see a -- was able to get a bank to give us the building, and we made it into it, and it is really a memorial for those people, for those men. in addition to that, that center also makes it possible so that you can see contributions of native americans, european americans, and african

americans, all under one roof, and you'll see the entire laws and regulations of the progress that african americans have made from slavery to today, and many of those cases were filed here. we invite you to come and see that museum here in tuskegee and support it. >> absolutely. i did not know about it before we started working on this program, but it's on my bucket list now, so i look forward to coming and visiting. >> thank you. >> we have a couple minutes left. i have two last questions. one brings us to today. i know we talked about the bus boycott that kind of kicked it all off, but you still practice law, and six months ago, you were in the headlines again about a street sign in your hometown. could you tell our viewers what is going on in your hometown? >> oh, you're talking about the mayor wanting to name a street

after me? >> yes. >> okay. mayor reed, who is the first african american to serve as the mayor of the city of montgomery, and i left montgomery and came to tuskegee because i couldn't get what he was able to do some almost 60 years later. but he came up here, after he was mayor, and asked me what i thought the city of montgomery could do, as a tribute to the work that i had done. i lived on a street called west justin davis avenue. when i grew up and i suspect before i went to national law school, i probably didn't know who justin davis was, but all i knew it was a street i grew up on. i lived there from 1936 till 1956 when i got married, so any

time i went anywhere, had to go, and i thought that street, if it was named after me, maybe it would be an encouragement to some other boys and girls who live in the ghettos of montgomery. and so he got to work on that because when he got to work on it -- i never thought about the fact that it was the president of the confederacy was the name of it. it was just the street that i lived on. so they are working on it, and whatever they do, i said i will appreciate it. >> that's pretty incredible story, given your career and your commitment. one last question for you, you know, we have seen incredible change in your lifetime. you've influenced that change. in the last year, there's been quite a bit of social justice issues, violence, and could you tell us, do you have some

parting words and advice for young people today? >> i think young people need to realize -- the young people today, there were young people who were instrumental in beginning of the bus boycott, claudette colvin, 15. martin luther king was in his late 20s. abernathy was just a couple years old. i was a few years younger. and mrs. parks was in her 30s. so you had young people, and then there was the young people up at a and t in north carolina who started the sit-in demonstration for students, and there were also students who started the freedom rides, that resulted in the desegregation of all the transportation systems in the state too. so young people have played a

very important role, including john lewis in the selma to montgomery march. i filed that lawsuit also, when they were beaten back on bloody sunday, i filed it before the close of the day on monday. but these young people did it in a non-violent manner. there wasn't any looting. there were people who did violence, but the violence was against the persons and not them involved. so whatever they decide to do, and as they do this work and look back to see the young people, the old people, the white people, the black people, everybody, those persons who were involved in the movement, they did it in a non-violent manner. and whatever we do, violence isn't the answer. it wasn't the answer. jesus taught us to love one another, and if we do that and

continue to use the methods that they find that we use is good. whatever new methods and all the technology that you have now, you can use that, but do it, and do it in a non-violent manner because we still have problems which needs to be solved. >> very good. thank you very much. this has been an amazing conversation. i'm honored to be able to have it. your first person account is incredible. of course your personal story really is our collective story. you're a part of our nation's history, and i treasure the fact that we had the chance to talk today. >> okay. just one final thing, if i may? >> please. >> that is -- and i will do it very quickly. the struggle for equal justice continues. there are two basic problems that we're still facing in this nation, racism and inequality. it didn't just start.

it started when we were brought here as slaves. so then i say it to the young people, to old people, to all those who are interested, and i say what john lewis, a great warrior said to me, we need to -- if we're going to solve the problem, we're going to have to get rid of racism and inequality. how are we going to do it? i suggest four things: one, you've got to have a plan. you've got to first of all declare that it's wrong. you need to say that racism and inequality is wrong. it needs to start at the white house to the supreme court to congress. then once you declare it wrong, you have to come up with a plan to get rid of it. if jo ann robinson and i had not made the plans in her living room that night, there would not have been a montgomery bus boycott. it may have been later, but it

wouldn't have been then because nobody would have made the plans for it. after you have a plan, you have got to implement the plan, and once you implement it, you're going to have to get involved yourself. you can't expect somebody else to do it. so what i want to tell you, and as i close, and as i think about john lewis, he ended up talking with me a couple of days before his death, and he knew that it was coming. and i said to him, as we close, i said, what is it you would like for me to do and for others to do to continue to do your work? and he told me, he said, brother, keep pushing, keep going, set the record straight. so i say to those of you on this program here today, racism and inequality, those are our

problems that we need to work on. keep pushing. keep going. set the record straight. do it in a non-violent manner and continue to do it until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream. thank you very much. and come see us at tuskegee multicultural center and help support that museum. >> thank you very much, mr. gray. you have been a real inspiration today. we appreciate your time. your contribution to our story but also your time today. it's been really terrific. >> weekends on c-span 2 bringing you the best in american history and nonfiction books. american history tv explores the nation's past, and book tv features leading authors, discussing their latest books. today, iraq war veteran recalls his experiences in the war, including the day his vehicle was hit by an ied and his road

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