>> now the conversation with diplomats from the u.s. and abroad about the cease-fire between israel and hamas. efforts in gaza and the west bank and the prospect for restarting the israeli-palestinian peace talks from the woodrow wilson center this runs one hour and 40

minutes. >> good morning, everyone. i'm the director of the middle east program here at the wilson center. welcome to our event this morning the godless cease-fire what's next. we have a very distinguished panel this morning to discuss the latest development on the palestinian arena and the biden administration policies in the region particularly after the cease-fire that ended the violence that took the lives of more than 250 palestinians including 66 children in gaza and 13 is raley's including two children. we are glad to welcome president and ceo of the wilson center to introduce the panel this morning. we also welcome the acting assistant secretary for their remarks from the biden administration's policy. we also welcome his excellency and ambassador of egypt to the united states to discuss egypt's role in brokering the

negotiations as well as the washington institute after his most recent trip to israel and the west bank and last but not least the chair of the middle east program, ambassador james jeffrey who will discuss the implications of the cease-fire and conflict. ambassador, the floor is yours. >> thank you and welcome, everyone to the wilson center. i have the honor of leading our remarkable team of scholars and analysts. congress chartered the center a little over five decades ago for in their words strengthening the relationship between the world of learning and the world of public affairs. in other words, we seek to discern lessons of foreign policy and offer them up to policymakers, analysts and influencers. nowhere isis that mission more important or challenging than in and around gaza and that is

between the israelis and palestinians. may 10th we also in the most graphic of ways and escalation of confrontation involving israelis, palestinians, police in jerusalem for peaceful protests to violent protests to rocket fire and air strikes from the use of rocks to the use of balloons and drones. the violence took a staggering toll many dead on both sides. it made half a billion dollars of damage. as we all know, there are few places in the world where violence can accelerate and escalate more quickly than here. there are few places where ideologies are more hardened than here. hamas was designated a foreignia terrorist organization nearly a quarter-century ago and still refuses to recognize the state of israel. thankfully on may 201st 11 days after the fighting began and cease-fire was secured, the

violence came to an end. there is no doubt that egypt played a pivotal role in the mediation and communications that helped make the cease-fire possible. we all desperately hope the settlement is permanent or at least lasting that we all fear that it could be fleeting. in other words, the future of the region remains uncertain and too often unsettled. when many of us have disagreements with egypt on several fronts on matters of human rights and civil rightswh for example, we also must acknowledge the role that egypt continues to play trying to help strengthen and broaden the cease-fire. the wilson center's mission is to discern the lessons and try to bring them forward for the players and decision points, and nowhere on that these lessons are more important or more urgent or more complex than this troubled land. so we asked what next. the next major battle between

israel and hamas was in 2014, so time different? .. >> finally really heard from

the wilson center chair of the middle east program. sent back to you to get the truly intriguing conversation underway. >> thank you very much ambassador for your opening remarks. before i pass the floor over at any time you may submit a question via twitter or submitting an e-mail. >> thank you. ambassadors, it is a pleasure being here. it is good to see you all again.

i don't plan on making big news today. i will however give you a basic idea of the approach it will not be allied of news to you but maybe would be worthwhile. stop the dying, stabilize the situation, humanitarian assistance and then and then with the conditions and thenn parametersrs that the prospect seems pretty far away. if you look a at the unconditional cease-fire from based in gaza it was the intensive of the required diplomacy of the united states and our partners from the

earliest hours of thelo conflict.fu and then to be in a critical role that and then play the important role throughout those 11 days. president biden was focused intensely on ending the conflict as quickly as possible we know from past experience conflict continues were innocent lives will be lost. and then we have each one of those innocent deaths. and then to have results in that short of a time frame that's why we engaged in private calls and consultations with the secretary, the president, myself deputy assistantde secretary.

we did this in person and in the region and by found and talk to a lot of regional counterparts along the way. we faced a lot of pressure to changege your strategy but we kept our eyes on the goal of the conflict as soon as possible. every day the conflict went on the bloodshed was heartbreaking. but we in concert with our partners could midwife a cease-fire after 11 days thinks to the entire work of the national security team and our colleagues in jerusalem is all speaks to the utility of the approach there is important work still ahead for flashpoints to help rebuild but just as we were focused about bringing a cease-fire through diplomacy to have a

great deal of thought into the longer term as well. it's mostly held by everyone theyatches the region know it remains fragile. palestinian militant militants have explosive devices from the gaza strip israel is responding with airstrikes fortunately no one neither side has been injured so far but it is just a matter of time. we want to reduce the likelihood this level of conflict happens again. that's why we think it is essential to humanitarian response with partners of the united nations, egypt and other partners we are committed to working with all of them to provide dad assistance and marshall other international support for recovery efforts we will supportwo that with israel and the palestinian authority in a way that benefitsfo palestinians

directly but does not benefit hamas. working through various actors that goes through transparent legitimate channels if you've ever seen the vetting procedures we have put in place is like a 60 page memo i have to sign off on me tell you it is intensive. through all of that we are providing more than $360 million of assistance to the palestinians. including 38 million of new assistance for humanitarian efforts in gaza and the west bank and of that, 33 million goes to unra to make sure these resources are available as soon as possible, not assistance will provide emergency

shelter, food, relief items, healthcare, mental health and psychosocial support for thoseug experiencing trauma. we will do thiss through trusted and vetted and independent partners not through hamas. throughout all of this we commit to strengthen our engagement with the palestinian authority so we can work with them toward a viable palestinian state promoting freedom of expression and as we have seen in recent days why that's more important. president biden has been crystal clear to say they are equally deserve to live safely and securely with equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy and our state is entirely organized around the vision.

to that end we are strongly encouraging palestinians and israelis to avoid unilateral actions annexation of west bank territory and the demolition of palestinians homes as well as incitement to violence and compensation through terrorism. as we stated many times, we firmly oppose the eviction from homes they have livedon in for generations. because those types of actions exacerbate tension to make a two state solution more difficult to achieve. will focus the efforts on an affirmative and practical approach to encourage constructive steps to help keep the possibility of a two state solution alive. equally importantly, improve the lives of palestinian people in tangible ways.

we need to lift up palestinian lives so they can enjoy the same level off prosperity is israel gdp per capita is higher than france or japan probably in gaza and the west bank is a few thousand per year. we will reaffirm thehe commitment to the status quo on the hamas sharif temple mount area we hope to see a jerusalem that respects all diverse inhabitants to ensure everyone has equal opportunities to live worship and thrive in that city i will turn the floor back over to you into our guests. >> thank you for your remarks andno we'll get back to you with questions. thank you. now i would like to address the ambassador of egypt who

played a key role in brokering between hamas and israel last month. your country continues to communicate with the hamas leaders author signing a peace treaty with israel. so tell me more about egypt's role how did the talks evolve and what are the main features of the cease-fire? particularly moving forward as the situation remains fragile? >> thank you. alsonk ambassador green and ambassador jeffrey and also let me welcome david as well. so let me just start by saying that i don't need to enter

into history we all know the pioneers a piece in all parts of the world and we know what egypt has done. but let me mention something that i need to emphasize. we had in egypt with a huge backlash when we opted for the option of peace. that was within the arab circle in the arab world and other organizations that try to stand ground firmly so what we have done is we have stood our ground and we have been able to transform the mindset. this is extremely important wherever we are today with the

whole detection of the region is because of the cornerstone in full conviction of the need to expand on this option but slowly but surely we have seen the madrid peace conference happen. we have seen the oslo accords and with jordan and just lately we have seen the other arab countries and israel come together. now this is just a backdrop. what the split between the west bank and gaza in 2007, we had to into her a number of escalations. but not just sit therere and

watch but you have a pivotal role to de-escalate. so there is the accumulated experience that egypt could accumulate. on the tenth of may that was just another round of confrontation between israel and gaza and that took place for continuation of 11 days until we managed to broker peace. operation in jerusalem the palestinian name is really name lawyers significantly different and that was due to a number of facts. basically and entangled seen not only israel or palestine

but throughout the region. and let me quickly mention here in israel that it was struggling to form a coalition government in confrontations between palestinians living in east jerusalem or the security forces and of course evictions. civil unrest as well and a number of cities within israel with a significant arab majority and then palestine let me say the first round of parliamentary elections were announced but then later refused in east jerusalem but then has also risen markedly

and 2021 and palestinian economic outlook also remains precarious and people laying gaza and under that dire economic circumstance. so with that relevant international players let me say that crisis has hit the middle east from syria to libya to put additional burdens combination. messages from the us. son had interpreted in different ways. people have seen a us that is

more prone or bound to the middle east subside in its priority but others see differently and in europe itself it has some type of confusion when it comes to how to advance we have seen the quartet that hasn't been as much help in recent years. ofrc course covid-19 with all the repercussions were extremely overwhelming but also in impact of those players to bring about the cease-fire.ve nevertheless we managed to do that in 11 days with me just say in the midst of all of this the cease-fire is part of what egypt sees as a holistic

approach after brokering the cease-fire, cairo moved in one is stabilizing the cease-fire hosting the israeli delegations and the palestinian authority and hamas in proximity talks to negotiate the terms and the requests of a prolonged cease-fire. such as economic andnd humanitarian arrangements and needs and the ability to exploit resources and gaza. these are all part of an ongoing effort that is exerted by egypt to sustain the

.ease-fire another track of why it is ongoing with these proximity talks and would continue. the other track that ever since the divide in the west bank and gaza, continuous effort exerted to bring about the palestinians together under one legitimate umbrella. so these are three important components of what we are trying to do. other 2014 cease fire is

something we wish to build on meaning that we plan to change that somehow have depicted that game ever since 2014. we should be more stringent and whatever plans we have with humanitarian assistance and reconstruction and rebuilding and some practices need to change. so that kind of arrangement needs to change for are much more responsible atmosphere but with those efforts that i

can make at the end of my presentation palestinians in gaza cannot have regular confrontations between hamas and israel they are the overwhelming majority in the population and gaza is around 2,100,000 the overwhelming majority affiliation and in the terms of livelihood and this is part of what we see in egypt the palestinian society toto have the light at the end of the tunnel with the radicalization with the extremist kind of approach. this is undoubtedly a point

that needs to go to the forefront of conversation. now the confrontation of course left many palestinians around 2000 egypt pledged 500 million us dollars to start rebuilding and reconstructing andnd gaza. that there is no cash involved in whatever egypt has announced in terms of the efforts to reconstruct. those egyptian companies at the forefront of those efforts in terms of reconstructing.

egypt and then to pave the way that conditions necessary for direct negotiations. and that circulation on the ground allows this. thee integral part of the holistic approach with the cease-fire reconciliation all of this caters to one direction as the ultimate goal of direct negotiations resume in a peaceful process to a peaceful outcome. so this is what i can say at the very beginning. i will stop here and follow the rest of the conversation. >> thank you ambassador you

have described the context and it's not just about this particular cease-fire but not just the arena that in the region ass in the well. so when israel and the territoriesng with the political domestic scene we've seen a change of government it is out so how will the internal dynamics affect the implementation of the space on —-dash of the cease-fire that is quite fragile quick. >> it's good to see other distinguish members in my good friend jim jefferies so thank you for organizing.

so coming back, i feel it is a very unstable situation on the ground to begin with. and to your point which is the domestic dimension in israel. why it is so unstable because perceptions of what happened in the conflict are not agreed-upon basically. you have the leader of hamas i will say that for over 30 years rightay after conflicts they say h hamas wins and then they settle back down. but right now he has a sense of victory and then basically

in a similar view is we want the status quo the israeli view minus hamas that not gaza.us this is what the ambassadors alluded to that next find ways to help hamas in the basket was very explicit so there basically was a cease-fire nobody published in "the new york times" that israel and hamas had a cease-fire and the concept was he stop firing rockets and israel will facilitate the hundred $60 million per year to go through the united nations for public works and the that gaza

we get close to 24 hours. and basically that was the last three years. but midpoint hamas lost interest in the united nations and we will decide where the money goes. and for the rockets and for the metro tunnel and for the un, hundreds of kilometers around gaza. but it certainly is very extensive. and it's hard to understand the opening of the gates that everybody once humanitarian

aid for gaza. i want to repeat that but the differences it goes directly to hamas and they use that for various purposes. i have heard conflicting views on that but basically the hamas view is we want to decide when and then he goes and now that is seen for the four rounds of rocket fire. so i think it is an unstable situation frankly and the view of the invoice is we will send out balloons and burn your fields as muchfi as we can. we are holding you responsible. so these are the details you don't always read about in the this is what's going on and gaza.

egypt has doneg a fantastic job to be a mediator and i only have respect for cairo. but it's not a level playing field. there are two dead israeli soldiers and two people that across the border and hamas once over 1000 people that's what happened last time. they got one prisoner out of over thousand and over 200 they released wentt back to practicing terror. so the prisoner issue was a big complication. so now to your question, on top of all of these objectives and differences, where does the domestic policy play? so on one hand if the government has members from

the right the government has fewer members from the right more from the center and from the left and as a full member of the coalition. it is a very diverse government. also united to say health gaza but don't help hamas. now ideally that's a secretary of state blink and said when he left after the conflict in may. but will hamas do that and talking to the people that hamas said no no no we won the war used in the west bank we are h in charge we have nothing to do with you. now in theory they will say at

the time of succession will have to make any concession to find agreements with the palestinian authority but maybe then we will talk to you. but all the reconciliation efforts going on 2007 the neck a and then again with those fantastic efforts to bring the movement together whether from hamas or the west bank to gaza that is not 14 years later. so that is hard so what sort of negotiation? united states under democratt and republican administration have tried to do status and in camp david i was part of the

state department and the obama administration under secretary of state and we tried a third time in the then diagram does not extend so it should be over something thatis is attainable. and that there is an objective. and the new prime minister. who tries to keep this government together let's not look for that which is devices that that which unites and most israelis want to see palestinians having a better life they justbu don't want hamas sign onon - - firing rockets at them can i have that distinction? with that opposition saying you are weak and you will cave

to hamas. i wouldn't be surprised frankly and those who want a second round he cannot come down from euphoria. i don't think the government wants a second round that the securities services don't see a way out because they don't see the un to fulfill that role that somehow with the egyptian and american umbrella some way to weigh in and say no. for the palestinian authority and with that technocratic government it might make a difference we made statements

in washington or cairo. but unless there is a concerted move i concerned this will just intensify because hamas will say where is my money and i went to hear the word united nations. this never happened in prime on - - in history and he will feel the pressure the equivalent of what they said to jfk. they are testing you. the way a new young president was tested in the united states you are being tested. and i worry that will mean the prospects of a second round i think the only way out is for the us and egypt and qatar the

three relevant it on - - actors and the whole story that there is just no way out you have to y do this to the united nations to have the technocratic government. has to be a clear sense of policy direction. it's a very unstable situation. i wish i had better news. i feel like a skunk at a garden party. i am just being very candid. and with proactive engagement moving forward?

i would like to turn to ambassador to also give us understanding of what happened many people would see the core issue of the palestinian israeli issue and they were written last year with historic findings that many countries believe in the core issue and others see the region through the prism of iran it continues to be the number one challenge so how do you read the geopolitics in light of what happened in gaza two months ago quick. >> thank you marissa. first of all greetings to all of my colleagues the masters of iran jerry and david it's good to see you again i will make three very brief points because i begin to compete on

the details of the cease-fire and the background. first of all the role of the geopolitics and secondly shifting israeli relations and third, the united states apologies to joe we over the last three years he has heard this many times the role of iran andma what is destabilizing cannot be overemphasized. and for itsrt support diplomatic but in terms of weapons systems after the last crisis iran not only supports hamas but even more radical extremist terrorist groups in gaza who are capable blowing up cease-fires but it goes further than that.

it's people throughout the region the iranian rocket programsms and with the pressure in syria and to see them in iraq and yemen it has to keep on any issue particularly a military issue to gaza one i focused on iran because of the fear that can be drawn into a conflict or its deterrence would be weekend depending on what it does on one friend faces more serious problems o on another hamas rockets challenge but did not overwhelm the iron dome but that cannot be the case in the

future dealing with rockets and missiles out of southern lebanon and syria all at the same time in close proximity. that is something israel has to think about. second israel was the relative support of arab states but also the arab states of the abraham accords well they were unhappy as they should be with whatin israel was doing in jerusalem basically to stand by their new friend and partner of regional security throughout the campaign that is not a major shift but perceptible one fortu the situation you know that

initially arab states made for israel through has a lot of but then president assad speech, all of the commentary went silent. it is a different arab world that working with the international community and the united states have greater contributions to peace like we just saw with egypt. finally, the united states. the us administration like all administrations, and decides a priority for the international agenda.a good luck it came to a screaming halt in may when the asia aircraft carriers are shut off on - - shipped off to the middle east largely because of afghanistan and the

entire diplomatic apparatus of the united states. we can dream about visiting even more important meaning that china is the biggest threat we face and is very hardrd to ignore and that's a lesson everybody has gotten so i will stop there. >> thank you ambassador jeffrey. i want to remind our reviewers to submit questions via twitter.

with that proactive role in the back to the negotiation table to the tax at least. and then with the humanitarian assistance in gaza and then from other regional leaders so that would be very high on his agenda. and this continues to be the number one issue for the country. if you tell your allies and those that insist the role in leading this is integral to any progress moving forward.

>> our partners know very well how actively are being. so prior to that to be so well laid out the typical approach for the past 20 something years is let's go for the nobel peace prize and get everything solved and it hasn't worked. what this administration is trying to do if we can just make lives better and make them better for people whether israel your palestinians? that takes a lot of work all on its own and you have heard some of the challenges the countries don't want to go back in without knowing they are on board with the

approach. egypt as an ambitious program no doubt there are challenges to implement that. it is something new. we tried the same approach over and over and it did not work is not minimalist but it's different and quiet. but theseul consultations are happening every single day. to be in rome and in berlin with the regional counterparts and this was top of the agenda because i had to smile as every administration likes to pivot away from the middle east toom focus on other priorities and you just can't do that fully the human race

is somehow decided the middle east t is important and that has been true for thousands of years. we know that's true now and going forward inhe the future we have to keep working on all of these issues but you just will

what egypt expects from the biden administration at this point. is it too early to say that the two state solution is no longer viable and that it will become more and more complicated to get there if we don't see more traction? >> thank you. let me quickly agree with both ambassadors. taking everything away from the middle east is not an option. i made a reference before that.

the problems will continue to follow you wherever you are. number two, we have been very appreciative of the support of the biden administration. in terms of supporting the efforts. what we need to see is a continued role that is proactive. proactive in terms of -- i would probably add to the ambassador's point. yes it is important to have reconstruction and livelihood for the people to make life more prosperous but also we need to see the effort of the comprehensive nature of peace

should not be a shell meaning that whatever steps we take towards alleviating the suffering attention to the humanitarian and two reconstruction should lead to direct negotiations. this is whae administration is cognizant of. the matter is timing. that the matter is timing. when has there been any timing opportunity? it is a decision that you make and a policy issue you have to

consider and move ahead once you feel you been able to achieve success on the front. the two state solution let me agree it is eroding the need to work toward its revival to the mines over here and people back home and throughout the region. i personally don't see how another sort of solution would be ine the interest of israel itself for the palestinians. so the one state to my mind is not cater to anyone security so the two state solution has to remain at the forefront as

a target and in accordance to international legitimacy but also in terms of providing the necessary conditions to work toward the two state solution is of extreme importance. we know the clinton administration was very close for a breakthrough that it didn't happen. but in the aftermath of that, we have a number of understandings. lake land swap for example and this is how you could always advance with the notion of two states so this is whether jerusalem or refugees.

all the's issues come at the time. but the drive toward them we should never lose sight of. >> thank youle very much ambassador. you mentioned earlier the important role of the united states but also egypt and israel. and moving toward something that you didn't talk about what that is and that basically describes the approach on badgering palestinian lives. is that attainable or are you hoping for more? >> i'm glad youou got me on that because that's my favorite topic and what the ambassador

just said is to say i completely agree i think the ambassador would agree. sometimes the sports analogies might be another places but if you can't run a marathon at least run a five k race. but i spoke about eight or nine times. and he has always said to me. and to be 80 or 90 percent on the marshall plan. and that might mean other foreign assistance, i don't

know. but take him at his word. this is what ambassador heard was saying about improving the economics. imagine if a+ b areas, you would have economic projects to bring in the american private sector. the emirates have had their problems for example. but they told me if it was a private sector initiative and the surrounding areas we could contribute and do our part but between the crown prince so what about private sector effort with the a+ b zone?

and then i'm just a little nervous to sayhe just be done negotiating. that's what the ambassadors said but we have to get there so let's lookth at some practical things. it's not the endpoint or economic peace but a way to get started to give them more authority also by the way to get more workers from gaza. those were fully vetted and become a security risk and then to make them less reliant on hamas. and this would be a little more controversial the to say

no building outside the security barrier those that are in a percent of the land and then to mention the land swap but imagine if you say not adding a single new person outside of the5% security barrier that would have preserved the options. you cannot solve it all now or the final statuses on - - statisticians. okay in one sense i remember the sentence between solving the conflict in managing the conflict they are shrinking the conflict. minimize the differences between the parties you can

bridge over a river but not the ocean if the differences are so wide there is something very specifically that can be done so then you cannot solve that in the future into the one state approach but the way to get there frankly if you use the mri the template if you have a deal with the saudi's maybe on final status, i get that but maybe just partial status and it was not ancient history and with the government for annexation

that the mri these swooped in and offering the accord that than 80 percent is a huge number. 55 percent is a landslide they said they prefer that over annexation. and here i think if we think creatively but broadened the abraham accords to showw the israelis you have to do your part and you have to stop anything over the barrier. just the way it works at the emirates it see their normalization or annexation they said we prefer normalization to annexation. it won't solve every single problem but will go a long distance to limit the conflict

it is limiting the differences and every call that singles or doubles or the five k or ten k race for the international audience it is around love doable. >> it's nice to see if these ideas have traction but also where you were recently but i go back to ambassador jeffrey for feedback and what f you have heard so far. >> all in all on this issue which i havei followed now intermittently deposition the biden administration is taking is flawed there is no real

alternative to the two state solution that given the sensitivities involved in the history is something that requires step-by-step work. david's idea shrinking on the one hand and with diplomacy as mr. magic diplomacy but also raises expectations. there is a real opportunity at this point because the region is changing. the relative role will not be as great as it is in the past.

and pretty scary dynamics not just iran but also russia which has its eye on the middle east. we see this in syria and libya and speeches. that will encourage people to the lowest common denominator and with that normalization over annexation. there will be more compromises a follow this architecture and i am very optimistic. >> i will turn to questions from the audience.

with regard to the us administration can we expect more concerted long-term development and then i assume the ngos and the country specifically? >> . >> as i said in my opening remarks other than the un we spend a significant part of our existence through trusted and vetted ngo partners. . . . .

using these ngos. now i'm not sure what the person meant to by development work, but right now we are focusing primarily on humanitarian assistance soan people have foo, water and healthcare. then you can start thinking about these type of projects that david makovsky was talking about and we were working on quietly among other things he mentioned and some other items as well. how can you take advantage of this new geostrategic situation that the ambassador described so you have the private sector funding for let's say a water project that benefits jordanians and is were aliens and palestinians across the board. these things were not possible to even dream about a couple of

years ago and now they are much closer to reality. how can you think about beyond ngos. maybe some palestinian youth start throwing some rocks at whomever. that's goingil to be very difficult and a different situation than what you have seen over the past decade. these are the sorts of things we need to be working through and that could provide ways of making the conflict a little bit smaller as david mentioned. >> thank you. to the ambassador khurman about what egypt can do to ease the

transport and delivery of needed and legitimate supply on the border. >> thank you, marissa. let me say that devoted to the personnel. to alleviate the suffering of reconstruction was in the amount i mentioned and as i mentioned it'sam not cash but it's being implemented and have been designed as such for the purpose that we will agree we need to be able to make sure the resources

we put on channels through the proper means in which the objective without any kind of diversion and this is part of what i had explained when it comes to the difference between the mechanism that we are creating today and the mechanism that we had in 2014. one of the ideas that we are floating around as well is to create t the fund, an international un fund that would have the ability to supervise the implementation of the process and to alleviate the dire circumstances of palestinians. this is an idea worth while in terms of how to advance it and i think it takes us to the general feeling here in the u.s. that the ambassador hood has mentioned in terms of making sure that these efforts are

concerted but also channeled well. so this is what we are doing. we have been receptive to the growing needs and we will continue to do so. let me make a quick reference to say. for the regional elements that are not necessarily benign in the interventions, we see chaos in all parts of the region. syria, libya, others even gaza itself, so this is one i completely agreeee on and with. it needs our attention to

somehoww overlook it it needs to be center stage. now i say this because of the following. if we have enough of the conflicts and the tensions that have marred the middle east for long, let me say that the recipe, the only recipe to even the conflicts, we would be doing ourselves and the region good and doing thend world good in terms of really focusing on the elements that would pave o the y towards that kind of direct negotiation that we spoke about before the two state solution to remain alive as the only viable

solution for the conflict. we would see as a consequence so many throughout the region if we are able to tackle that main conflict that fuels the radicalization and extremists throughout. go ahead, please. >> basically there's such huge respect for cairo and the stabilization r to gaza. they feel israel is very much on the same page when to deal with what the ambassador keeps saying, to improve people's lives. in the macro strategic convergence i must say i was a bit troubled on my trip to talk about this as i have six and

seven, another four or five palestinians that all raise the gate because it didn't just open after the conflict. it's not about getting them out of the building but i wonder if there is some way. usually the buildings, but this new bridge opened up in the last several years i feel there is no synchronization on it and i feel troubled by it because i know it was trying to improve things.nc it just seems like a discordant note that it wasn't synchronized. i don't understand it and i thought if it's okay to use this opportunity having the egyptian explain it to to us because there was a lot of concern that it was used to

divert but partly the pummels where the cement is coming from and things like that. i don't know. maybe the ambassador can solve this mystery for me because it is coming at a time for cairo. >> thank you and thank you, david. let me just make this point clear. you've referred to. they have been huge, a huge headache to egypt in terms of its being detrimental for the national security in cyanide and throughout egypt as a whole.

the analogy but anyhow, anything that was used through these tunnels was illegal and maybe some would consider it legitimate in terms of the livelihoods but nevertheless, our point was the defense and the measures that we have taken in cyanide on the borders are only indicative of the amounts of results that we have in order to shut the numbers down. if we are able if we have been successful in doing so, there has to be a way above ground to

continue to take this to the needs of the people. now the only thing i can assure you in this conversation is nothing that egypt does is not coordinated with either israel or the palestinian authority. i'm sure we will have the opportunity to sit and chat in the near future f and we can expand on this later on. >> thank you, and this letter. we have a few more questions and about 15 minutes to go. one coming in from the washington institute andco i gus this would be addressed to ambassador motaz zahran what steps aree the u.s. and egypt willing to take and will there be increases and the settlements and demolitions in the occupied west bank if not such steps are being taken, what does this mean

for the long-term peace process? >> i don't want to speculate on what might happen with this. it's always a dangerous and perilousap path. i will just to restate our policies to maintainor the cease-fire it includes rockets and airstrikes and settlement activity in west bank territory, demolitions of palestinian homes and all the rest because we believe those things just exacerbate tensions and of course we believe that israel has a right to defend itself so we are not saying if they do come that they can't respond.

we want to avoid that same cycle of violence. let me say on the number of developments let me say as a journal of overarching

positions. for the confiscated lands and homes anything that erodes the possible peace outcome in general is something that we've always called out and doesn't continue to call out and the fact that we have our strong ties and links and relations with the israelis have been appreciative of the fact that we are honest in public and private and this will continue. >> this next question on the

coordination with jordan. what are the future roles of the gulf states you mentioned the role for saudi arabia and your approach to shrink but have you seen this particularly in the near to medium future? >> getting the members of the accord and the saudi's to say you have your doubts. we want a private sector initiative and the ambassador made the point someone from the private sector who is going to focus on where most of the palestinians live to do economic projects, industrial zones and other things.

i think there could be a security component for the security forces to have more room and to be more dominant but it's 40% of the west bank you could show people's lives are getting better and there is an actual coordinator and no one can say the money is going to hamas words a private sector initiative. i've heard from people we are in and joining. i would like to see that. i also think that you might be able to do even some industrial zones. i admit i could point to you and there is no 100% guarantee but i think things that would give

people a stake in the success is possible. i talked about more workers i just think we should be creative. looking at the egyptian side about you don't want to send money but maybe there are things that could help the workers come in and bring money home. it shook and just fall on this reconstruction, but people should help as well. a. >> do you see or have you heard in your recent trip interaction that this is something that they would like to see the countries coming in to help?

>> i was told he's angry. we are not asking him to take money. we are asking him to say there will be a consortium of states that would contribute to this economic push. i find it hard to believe. i know we are running out of time a bit. i do think that what we need to stress in general is the succession like the elephant in the room so to speak that hamas feels it is high as a kite because it wants to maximize its

political leverage for the period. when the pa people say to me david if they want in, we are not trying to block that. we are saying there is a price of joining the club and that is you have to accept the agreements with israel. the view is no. we don't want to make any concessions because we feel -- that is the context to a lot of this in the stability in the belief with the public and with the palestinian institutions on the eve of the succession and if we don't see that story of succession i think we are missing a big piece of the

picture. >> this would be a great panel discussion highlighting particularly what is happening in the palestinian territories and the future of the leadership on how it will affect the point, absolutely. to try to put them all together i guess i will ask the ambassador to step in here and then perhaps answer this question what role did iran play in the conflict between hamas and israel and there's evidence if i may add to this has this recent fighting between hamas and israel helped rise again in

the polls and david mentioned the changes months into it. but has this sort of elevated iran's grip on that particular arena knowing that there are the talks happening around the program? ambassador jeffrey? >> good question, marissa. and it gets to the whole core of the expectation of israel and its regional strategy. so this is very much my personal view, not something that can be totally verified. iran doesn't want to destroy israel other than as a practical problem with some conflicts or endeavor in part because it knows it cannot destroy israel,

it has capabilities that iran canli only dream of and iran is well aware of that, the people that are really running iran are pretty aware of the reality in the region. what they see is as described the step-by-step process closer to israel and the conflict more by the situation or issue iran thought that opened room to achieve some kind of echo by taking a position against israel as a state. the interesting thing is while israel is faced with this

continued decision it is seeing less and less residents i think throughout the rest of the region. that is the point of the abraham accord as did israel's other various partners at the top of the list. egypt then jordan and so this raises thequ question of just hw valid is that iranian strategy. iran will continue to pursue it because it sees israel now as a key player in a coalition of regional states designed to detoura and contain iran but nonetheless it's an interesting development and i think that i wouldn't say that iran has benefited significantly, certainly not as much as hamas

it's not at all like in 2006 as i said led by assad and the projectionist front. thank you ambassador. we have time for final thoughts to wrap this up. this has been a very rich discussion. i hope that this will be the first of many other discussions on this issue. i get i guess to share one take away from the discussion that you think might help the process move forward. a. >> it sounds like there's an awful lot of convergence in terms of ideas. to maintain the cease-fire by

avoiding destabilizing unilateral action on either side, to aid the palestinians in a way that follows the law and helps people directly. we will be doing that with our important partnersrt like egypt and qatar and with others, we will try to set the conditions tore return to real discussions about a two state solution to acquire diplomacy. if we can make progress on all these things i think that willes help us set the table once again for the talks to be fruitful. meanwhile we will keep an eye on iran as the ambassador said they are problematic here. asthe assistance hasn't been militarily decisive, but over time it could beiv increasingly so. at the same time, we are

watching the iranian strategy kind of backfireded on itself as it pushes the states closer together. i don't think that is going to be a winning solution over time, but we will continue to keep an eye on them and pressed back on them everywhere began along with those regional partners and allies like egypt. >> thank you very much. ambassador motaz zahran. >> let me say to cater to the needs as well as reconstructions there is light at the end of the tunnel we need to be able to dismiss any factors and actually

see them, see that kind of hope to be able to bring about a sense of goodness as opposed to extremist and radicalization. we need to work on the holistic approach in terms of we need to focus on regional actors and their behavior. if they are not confined to iran, iran is certainly at the top of the list and let me say they shouldn't be dealt with in isolation they should come into play and they should be part of

the overall package of whatever could be reached. the last point i will make is on the need to support the palestinian authority and we shouldn't hold our support contingent but as long as he is there we should be able. he is the powerhouse and we need to see them enabled and show that there is hope to prevail. this was a very interesting

discussion and i learned a lot. >> thank you very much. david? >> thank you again i want to extend my thanks for organizing this and for assimilating the discussion. there was a great sense of convergence. it would take gradual steps. it's the most urgent to make sure the cease-fire doesn't unravel. it worked the last three years and now i worry the perceptions of who did what are left to their own devices and i just

hope there's a real effort by the united states and egypt to ensure there is no way out and because we are on the eve of the succession the general view is now they realize that there is a list. for the international diplomatic's that's what they bring to the table. we will not let this unravel.

we are going to make sure that there is clear procedures and construct as the money goes through the united nations weree the pa isn't going directly to hamas and being within the framework this is what it will take to join. this is the concession that you will need to make. but i think that without this kind of provision of the united states and others, i'm afraid between these it won't just stagnate but it will descendent which would be tragic. >> i hope you are wrong, david. >> i am the first person to hope i am wrong. >> unlike david, i remain optimistic. i think that we heard realistic ways forward and i think that the tenor of the international

community and the states and st the region's reaction to this latest tragic outburst of violence has been notably different than what we have seen in the so many others involving either israel and the palestinians, israel and lebanon or other competitors in the region and the consensus throughout almost every country in the region on how to go forward at least in g general terms the devils inra the detais but nonetheless, the general consensus on how to move forward i think is the basis upon which we can all go. thank you again, marissa. >> thank you ambassador jeffrey. ambassador motaz zahran, david makovsky, thank you very much

for your time today and for sharing your thoughts on this important topic. more discussions on this will be planned for the next few months so we hope that you will tune in and thank you for listening.

the white house in a bipartisan group of senators announced they reached a deal on infrastructure legislation. up next, transportation secretary pete buttigieg and industry officials discuss infrastructure investment and clean energy initiatives. the bipartisan policy center is the host of this event. good afternoon. friends and family, welcome to this special event. critical infrastructure for a clean energy future. on behalf of the bipartisan policy center and our innovation council, smarter, cleaner, faster task force, delighted to be with you all this afternoon. we have a two-part session today. i had the honor of starting out the discussion with sec. secrety buttigieg and following that, the energyne program as the panl discussion with three experts from the business and lab