household packaging. and 10:30 eastern, a vote scheduled whether to move forward with a bipartisan infrastructure bill negotiated with the white house. and on c-span 3 at 10:00. a senate judiciary committee on migrant farm workers. >> the house select committee held a hearing on environmental justice with the burden placed on poor communities as temperatures and weather patterns change and the cost of pollution and related jobs. this is an hour and 45 minutes. >> well, good afternoon, everyone. thank you for joining us tt this remote hearing today. we're looking who you to advance environmental justice through climate action and i recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. now, during our last committee hearing, the west faced an

unprecedented heatwave, one that shattered temperature records and melted tables and took the lives of 200 americans and the extreme heat capped the hottest june in our nation's history and it would have been impossible without the influence of human-caused climate change. this week, unfortunately, a new and dangerous heatwave is threatening some crops, sparking wildfires, straining power grids and putting more lives in danger and on the east coast, commuters waded through waist deep water to reach the subway and there's no denying it we're in a climate crisis and we must act boldly to keep it in check and help our

neighbors to adapt to threats that are here from scorching heat waves to stronger storms, the climate crisis affects each community differently, but its worst effects are felt by americans in american justice communities which include communities of color, low income communities and indigenous communities. that's why environmental justice must be at the center of climate action. it's why environmental justice is the cornerstone of our climate crisis action plan and it's why today we'll focus on advancing environmental justice through climate action. throughout our history, black, brown, indigenous and low income, today they're more vulnerable to the effects of climate change. black american children are five times likelier than white children to be admitted to the hospital forasthma.

and communities that have few trees or places to cool off have deadlier outcomes of when the weather hits triple digits. tribes are watching their way of life by climate weather extremes and wildlife loss and in puerto rico families are still living with blue plastic tarps over their homes nearly four years after hurricane maria blew away their roofs. this is not a coincidence. environmental justice communities have long been harmed by chronic underinvestment and systemic failures that make it harder for them to bounce back after disaster strikes. they've also been subject to racist zoning codes, mortgage lending discrimination and disproportionate proximity to factories, waste sites and other sources of pollution. climate change acts as a threat

multiplier, taking existing social and economic inequities and making them worse and that's why climate action must be centered in writing these wrongs and making sure they're not justices of the past. solving the climate cries is more than pollution, it's boosting resilience, it's about repairing the legacy of environmental racism, and as we expand clean energy and rebuild our infrastructure, we have to be intentional about elevating environmental justice communities, to make sure that the benefits are reaching the most vulnerable americans. and thanks to the leadership of colleagues like representative mckeachen, we've made progress as we listen to the priorities of environmental justice communities. we passed the president biden

rescue plan which included critical justice programs at epa and we also passed the invested american act which makes record investments in mass transit, expands for water, resilience and creates a groundbreaking program to reconnect environmental justice communities divided by highways. this is going to be a very important hearing for all of us and i look forward to hearing our outstanding witnesses. at this time i'll turn it over to ranking member graves for his five minute opening statement. thank you, madam chair, and i'm looking forward to your testimony. when we talk about environmental justice, i think it's important that we talk about disadvantaged communities. i think it's important that we look at policies that have been

carried out and used evidence to inform our policies, our bills, our lapgs, our strategies, as we move forward to a clean energy future a cleaner energy future in the united states and i know that my friends, mr. hoffman and mr. levin are going to be shocked to hear me cite california as an example today. but i do, i want to cite california because i think it's an example of how flawed policies can actually be regressive and can actually exacerbate challenges some of our disadvantaged communities may be experiencing and may cause disproportionate burdens to the communities. and the coalition of civil rights leaders have sued the state over aggressive impact of

policies on their disadvantaged communities. as a matter of fact, you can look right now and that these programs, these policies have resulted in the state of california. california is paying 50% more on average for electricity costs and about 80 cents more per gallon to fuel their cars. and that's compared to the national average. as a matter of fact, in the lawsuit that was filed against the state of california, it's citing these regressive policies, they say. california's climate change policies. specifically those that increase the cast and delay or reduce the ability of housing that increase the cost of transportation fuel and lengthening commute times and further increase electricity costs have caused and will cause unconstitutional and unlawful disparate impacts to california's minority

populations and the climate policies guarantee that housing, transportation, electricity prices will continue to rise while gateway jobs in the middle class for those without college degrees, such as manufacturing and logistics will continue to locate in other states and i think we've seen that. california's policies have resulted in some of actually the highest emissions growth in the united states and it's a disturbing trend in that you're causing disproportionate impacts to disadvantaged communities and actually resulting in higher emissions and i remind you, the state of california is the only state with five severe nonattainment areas in the state. therefore, as the chair talked about the cases of asthma and other health challenges that disproportionally impact our kids are exacerbated in that state as a result of policies

that are purported to help to address climate change and reduce emissions. my home state, louisiana, if california rates applied we'd be paying approximately triple the electricity bills that we certainly pay in our state. and if we're going to talk about -- if we're going to talk about dispro partial nat impact and environmental justice, i want to remind, my home state of louisiana we have one of the highest trick or treat populations percentages in the united states. we have one of the highest percentages of those impoverished. let's talk about environmental justice. the justice to our state, to our citizens, whenever the u.s. army corps of engineers leveed the rivers causing the greatest loss of wetlands in the united states constituting 90% of that loss and unfortunately many of my friends on this committee

that talk about their willingness or their desire to restore and protect the disadvantaged communities are repeatedly fighting our efforts to restore our coastal eco system to protect these communities from dangerous storms, hurricanes and floods, and so it's especially concerning that as we move forward, we move forward based on science, based on data, based on evidence and building upon the success that the united states has had in reducing remissions more than the next 12 emission reducing countries combined. madam chair, with that i look forward to hearing from our witnesses and yield back. >> all right. here we go. without objection, members who wish to enter opening statements into the record have five business days to do soment now i'd like to welcome our witnesses. we will hear from prominent community leaders and

researchers on why it's critical to invest in environmental justice. katherine coleman flowers is the founder of the center for rural enterprise and environmental justice. she is an internationally recognized advocate for the human right to water and sanitation and she works to improve access to clean air, water, and soil in marginalized rural communities. in 2020 ms. flowers received the prestigious fellowship. nicky cooley, interim assistant director for the institute of tribal and environmental professionals at northern arizona university. ms. cooley leads a program to help tribal nations as they prepare for tribal impact. and she works with partners across the united states and alaska on climate change mitigation and resilience

planning. ms. cooley is of the navajo nation. derek holly is the president of reaching america, a nonprofit with a focus on the african-american outreach. mr. holly has over 25 years of experiencing in advertising and marketing. dr. park is assistant professor of public policy at ucla's lufkin school. and it's labor economics and public finance. his research focuses on how climate change has economic outcomes and in particular, studies the labor and human capital impact of climate change and the prospects for long run climate adaptation and environmental determinenates of economic ability. without objection, the witness's written statements will be made part of the record. with that, ms. flowers, you're

now recognized to give five minute presentation of your testimony, welcome. >> thank you. thank you, chair caster and for the opportunities to testify. again, my name is katherine coleman flowers and i'm the development manager for the justice initiative and the founder director for rural enterprise and environmental justice in montgomery, alabama and i served as a practitioners residents for the theological seminary as well as the boards of the national resource defense council and the climate reality project. as stated in 2020 i was awarded the fellowship and a book entitled waste, and there were

resilient-- i am miles county, too, has had a proud history of fighting for equality and the right to vote in addition to the early 1900's sharecroppers organized for jobs and justice and many included my father, my three brothers and myself served in the united states military. we have a deep leg tri -- legacy and rely on our core of democratic values even if they failed us. and provided for us, the knowledge to know when we're out of balance with creation, that failure is exemplified through fish kills, more powerful storms, higher ground water tables in some areas, drought in some area, straight pipes of raw sewage or failing

waste water systems. i have taken philanthropists and people from both sides of the aisle to see the inequality that exist, and at the highest rate for per capita in-- and now the victims of covid are is reminder what happens when poverty, inequality, failing or no sanitation infrastructure and climate change comes together. the climate crisis impacts all of us, whether one is in louisiana losing at least 25 square miles of land for a year or in alabama where more intense tropical storms can harm housing, roads, transportation, arteries or more valuable infrastructure. through our nation, we're dealing with failing infrastructure and it includes the most basic infrastructure and sanitation.

because i'm a country girl, i like to speak in plain english like i would if i was at home speaking to local people, my relatives. in the county seat of louns, telling people sewage from a nearby lagoon has been backing up into her home and the infrastructure fails and crying for help. and all the town can provide is pump truck to pump sewage out of her yard from time to time. the failure is more pronounced when there's a hard rain. this is failing infrastructure across the united states and they should not be left to their own devices struggling to cope with the climate crisis and failure that goes back decades. failure is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

despite being knowledgeable of the failure of the lagoon system, a failure designed to one in hayward planned in whitehall along highway 80. and this was sitting next to an elementary school. the liability for failure in this system would be transferred to home owners. this is not considered the failure to already exist here and around the nation, nor does it account for climate producing the welfare of the residents or the nation. it bears the question how can federal money be use today buy equipment that does not come with any service or performance warranties and yet when we know that-- especially when we know that they're not only in louns county, but throughout the nation and this is the inequality throughout the u.s. whether in montgomery alabama where the communities with failing septic tanks, where

they're asking for good paying jobs as well. they're can go for help black, brown and rural communities, poor living conditions and health crisis is a chance to right the wrongs of all marginalized communities and make america a model of ingenuity where we have clean air, clean water. infrastructure and good paying jobs for anyone. with this funding should come guardrails to assure that miss charlie may will not get sewage in her yard. and not next to schools or places in communities to come with the same performance and parts warranties that we have come to expect from a car, a hot water heater or a heating and cooling system. these guardrails include enforcements so the people of alabama, louisiana, texas and whatever other great nation needs infrastructure will get

the relief and protection exfrom the climate crisis and cancer alley which sits along the mississippi river residents combat cancer rates due to pollution and a one climate crisis away from a catastrophic event that could overshadow hurricane katrina. we can make a difference and do something now. as a child i learned in sunday school that we all have the power to do good and change our communities for the better and we should. therefore, i implore our leaders and policy makers and urban centers that do know the have the privilege to flush and forget and those who are losing their homes to sea level rise and roads destroyed in their homes do not provide safe haven from extreme heat or storm. change the formula from disaster relief to allow all americans to include people that are renters, live on

property, or rural communities that are not densely populated. invest in clean infrastructure for all and most of all. we're here to confront climate crisis for our children, our grandchildren and generations to come. i thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. it's an honor and i look forward to continuing conversations about environmental and climate justice for all americans, thank you. >> thank you very much. >> miss cooley, you're recognized for five minutes. >> and chair, ranking members of the select committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today to speak on the significant actions of native americans and alaska native communities, and addressing that the climate crisis. i acknowledge all of the tribal and indigenous people on whose traditional land we're working and living on. i acknowledge my relatives

listening in on this important hearing. i'm of the clan and maternal grandfathers that the water flows and i'm from the navajo nation, blue dot, arizona, i rae side in flagstaff where i manage the climate change program housed under the institute for tribal environmental professionals. a recent effort was to convene the development of tribes and climate change report. although it's not been published, i'll highlight thee of the 12 chapter ekey messages and recommendations. we're seeing drastic impacts of the extreme arridification of their lands.

our land had to have water, forcing families to decrease or cell their live stock, which is devastating for those who depend on money and food. at the coastline, there are the consequences of rising sea levels far asking them to plan for relocation. in recent years, wildfires and winter storms have caused power outages, impacting those most vulnerable. a key philosophy of tribal nations, water is life. water sustains our body, our environment and our economies. unfortunately, many tribal nations do not have reliable or adequate access to safe drinking water. the insufficient drinking water infrastructure combined with the imbalance of the health of the environment and the people.

the report recommends funding for in the only the installation, but operation and maintenance of water, drinking water infrastructure. the climate resilient infrastructure could potentially increase long-term loss and water ability to access safe and reliable drinking water is a privilege, but it's also a basic human right. i recall vividly doing my college homework by kerosene lamps and head lamps. the uncertainty of the mine shutting down because of job loss and the inability to train former mine workers to the reclamation process. and for tribes to create local jobs and training opportunities for solar and wind facilities. our people would not have to leave the reservations. tribal nations require the support in terms of financing,

training, and access to the resources. my umbilical cord is buried at my family's home and i'm continually reminded of where i come from and what i protect. we're inherently bonded with the earth through our prayers, our ceremonies and ways of life. due to climate change, many communities are facing the threat from rising sea levels, coastal emotion, perm ma frost melt, and not only threatens the land base, but people of safety, emotional and physical well-being. the staff reports highlights in inadequate funding, agency coordination and local capacity and technical capacity as barriers for tribes. if we wait longer, there will be significant long-term costs. i'm the daughter of someone who worked at the peabody coal mine

on the navajo re reservation for over 30 years and i know a transition to sustainable economy and focuses on clean energy, such as wind and solar. but building a sustainable infrastructure that will protect the people and environment and also promote economic security. i stress the importance of acknowledging the unique challenges native americans face. climate change impacts are more frequent giving less time for preparation and increasing costs. i implore the committee to recognize the opportunity to learn more in depth what tribal nations are doing to protect themselves and their communities against the climate crisis while exploring significant ways to support them. i implore the committee to include and recognize the

leadership of tribes, in addressing the climate and it will always be at their doorstep. as an elder recently said, what we do today, we do for the next seven generations. thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. holly, you're recognized for five minutes. >> ranking member graves and the members of the committee. thank you for allowing me to speak today. i'm addressing social issues impacting the african-american community reducing anti-poverty. anti-poverty currently in low income families for individuals are unable to afford basic heating and electric and gas needs. some americans spend who are than 25% or more of their total income on their electric bill. now, ending poverty is a goal

we should be interested in achieving and working toward the goal we have to be mindful how policies will impact the came communities you look to protect. communities around, low income, minority suffer from access to resources and much balance on electricity cost. today's hearing is advancing environmental justice through climate action sounds great, however, it would be much more prudent and productive for everyone to include anti-poverty in the conversation. why? pause the same communities of people the same communities of people to protect from environmental justice are the same people struggling with energy poverty. for the record, i do this i climate change exists, however, i do not believe there's a climate crisis and the narrative is very misleading. and so-called pollution misleading, false hope and

unrealistic outcomes for america. there's not a poll, a survey or research that would suggest that climate change is a major issue or even a conversation in the black community because it's not. and we have the media to blame for that. most black people think being shot by a police officer is the biggest issues and that's not either. my sister, is democrat waited seven months to get a vehicle because they couldn't get the chip for her car. earlier this week, i had to resort to a rental car. and some can't get materials either. this is a supply chain issue for precious metals like cobalt needed for every solar panel, lithium battery, radiation treatment. cell phone. over 66% of the cobalt comes from the congo mined by little

black kids. we have a coal mine trying to be shut down environmental groups. this is racist. why is it okay for little black kids mine for cobalt in africa? right now we see electric charging stations going up everywhere even in communities where it's not used. studies show an estimated 90% of electric vehicle owners earn over $100,000 a year and a most are not able to have that income and the policies will do more harm to these individuals. in closing my grandfather was a black coal miner in west virginia, the poverty that exists in rural america is different from the urban city and these people never

recovered from the mines that closed decades ago. my fear, madam chair, the same will happen to healthy thriving communities that rely on good paying oil and gas jobs for generations. i know plenty of folks in houston, dallas, louisiana, who work in the industry and they're not in agreement with any policies, new policies or regulations that will ultimately destroy their life style. i'm a licensed captain. i fished in the atlantic and in the gulf and an environmental steward, i recognize we have to protect our planet, however, the bottom line we need to do it sensibly, we all agree that american people have gone through enough with the uncertainty that exists from the global pandemic of covid-19. the last thing we need to do is take away good paying jobs and disrupt people's life style than it has and destroy an industry that we've relied on for centuries, the same

industry that created the life style. petrol chemicals, plastics, pharmaceuticals, and even yoga mats comes from fossil fuel. roughly 80% of the energy mix comes from fossil fuel, oil, natural gas, and coal. it was that way in the turn of the century and that way my when grandfather was a coal miner and we're not going to get there by a flip of the switch. we need market oriented policy to allow americans to keep exploring and developing our own natural resources safely while we transition to much cleaner energy and still allow us to maintain our energy and supply chain independence. thank you. >> okay. next: doctor parks, you're recognized for five minutes. >> great. thank you chair, ranking member graves and members of the select committee for giving me the opportunity to speak today. i am an assistant professor

ucla. my training is as a ph.d. economist and given this training i see my job primarily as to help us learn from date to and economic statistics not so much to make political statements, but in this case the data seems to tell an increasingly robust and compelling story regarding interactions of climate change and extreme heat in particular and economic opportunity and inequality. and with my time i'd like to focus on three main points. we're only beginning the full consequences of hotter temperatures in part because the effects of hotter temperatures are often quite subtle and may evade the traditional tools, i'll tell you in a minute. research available, it appears to indicate that heat has different consequences not only richer and poorer countries, but within even congressional

districts, suggest that climate change without remedial investments could translate into economic inequality and third the findings from this research much of which has come on-line the last four or five years, suggest that not only should we be engaging in climate irrigation, transitioning away from fossil fuels, but that policy makers may want to think proactively about climate change. in the time remaining, illustrate the points in the context of effects on worker. my colleagues at ucla and stanford were able to look at workers' compensation claims and hotter temperatures significantly increases the risk of workplace injury. for example, if you're working on a day above 90 degrees fahrenheit. this increases injury up to 15% on that day and in california alone, we estimate that heat may be causing tens of thousands of workplace injuries

per year and many of which lead to permanent disabilities and it's important to note here, is that the vast majority of the cases are not officially recognized as being insulated. maintains fall off a ladder, hit by a moving crane, getting your hand caught in manufacturing machines. moreover, we find that heat is not only a problem for outdoor workers in construction or agriculture, but also for many indoor workers, think of industries like manufacturing, warehousing, and wholesale. we think this is important given the nearly exclusive quality, attention, at least to date on illnesses, and injuries and also on outdoor workers and again, here is where the details really team to matter when it comes to climate inequality. you know, how much it hurts is very much a function of individual and local factors, like income, occupation, or which neighborhood you live in. for example, we find that the

effect of heat on injuries appears to be at least five times larger for workers in the bottom quintile and income distribution relative to the top because they're that much more likely work in dangerous occupations and industries. >> and these patterns of hilo cal climate inequality appear to persist crass a number of settings, whether that's the effect of heat on learning, what i've worked on. heat on violent crime or internal and mortality. again, it worth underscoring how, this is not an issue 100 years from now. these are occurring right now and are likely to become much more acute particularly given the amount of warming that we bake into the system, just as an example. and voted in your district, they can expect to experience over of 60 a year and within their lifetime, even with

aggressive climate litigation. and so the upshot, to conclude in my opinion, is that as policy makers, you may want to use this opportunity to think carefully about how to build smart adaptation mechanisms into whatever climate policies are put in place, and at least when it comes to heat, it appears that doing so may have inequality reducing benefits as well. so in my written testimony, i outlined some important data gaps and implications at the federal level, around infrastructure, racial achievement gaps and hopefully speak to more detail during the q & a. thank you very much and i look forward to our discussion. >> well, i want to thank the witnesses for their very insightful testimony and i'll recognize myself for five minutes for questions. there's a common theme in all of your testimony today and that is how we move ahead on equitable and justice climate policy and it's got to be more

than simply reducing carbon pollution. we've got to tackle the environmental racism and help improve the lives of everyday americans, no matter who they are and where they live. miss flowers, i heard you loud and clear about the differences you have seen in just simple things like waste water treatments and you know, we just, in the house, have the invest in america act where we've made historic investments in waste water treatment. this is on the front burner for me here in tampa because when we have these extreme rain events, our sewers overflow, it's pretty gross, and now we have so much nutrients in tampa bay, we have a massive fish kill, red tides, they say, the scientists now say it's going to last longer because the

waters are warmer. i mean, this is a toxic stew. we've got to repair and strengthen critical infrastructure and do a better job. you talked about the-- you chronicled the challenges pretty well. what opportunities do you see? if we can deliver on historic investments and cleaning up the water and make sure that we target those investments to communities of color and what opportunities do you see? get specific with us. >> well, i think there are a number of opportunities, i think one of the opportunities we'll be seeing quickly in the health outcomes, because we saw a parasite study and we saw evidence of a tropical parasite in the county and did not have adequate sanitation. and one had raw sewage coming back into the home and the

second outcome would be it can provide jobs and good paying jobs for people in the community where they don't feel like they have to leave and go to the cities or other areas to find jobs. of course, i think the third thing is the economic opportunities in terms of being able to recruit businesses to come. in those communities we don't have adequate sanitation and businesses are not going to locate there. i used to be the economic coordinator for louns county. and without infrastructure the communities will remain poor. they don't have the basic services and so, those are some immediate outcomes that will succeed. >> yeah, and we know that the american society of civil engineers brings our infrastructure in the u.s. with a c-minus grade. waste water, d-plus, schools d-plus, so, i know there are

enormous opportunities out there to do better and ms. cooley, you mentioned for tribal nations you have your eyes on solar and wind power. how do you see this as a big job creator, making these investments in renewable energy? >> yes, definitely. as ms. flowers mentioned, that these jobs will train former mine workers and their families and upcoming generations for solar and wind industries, based on the reservation, based on tribal land so they do not have to go off the reservation, away from their families and away from what they basically have known for all their lives. so, it's important that we keep these-- our people on the reservations, but the jobs, and the training opportunities are immense. as a member of one of the largest native american

describes out there, there's great potential for job creation. thank you. >> dr. parks, your recent research is eye opening. previously, there are estimates have been that exposure to heat causes about 4,000 workplace injuries a year, but you, in your review of worker compensation claims, you say, no, it's closer to 15,000 or more just in california. is that correct? why have agencies like these, the national institute of occupational health or bureau of labor statistics completely missed this? >> certainly within our estimates, i'm not a physician, but my understanding is that illnesses and injuries due to heat are one of those things that are just quite difficult to attribute definitively, for forensically and you have to have a vast amount of data and a way to look at excess.

but more broadly, i think in part, a function of lack much data collection and interest in this issue. >> thank you. all right. we're going to go to ms. miller. you're recognized for five minutes. >> okay. can you hear me now? >> yes. >> good, okay. thank you so much, chair, and for ranking member, and all of the witnesses here today. we have an awful lot in common. i want to paint a picture now of what is happening in appalachia, there are thousands of homes without sanitary sewage or septic sewage, and that means that it goes right into the river. there is a high rate of drug use and opioid over doses and

compared to the surrounding regions. these impacts are not a result of climate change as my colleagues would like to believe, but rather caused by the policy of destroyed energy communities. it's just to a really talk about today. where is the justice of communities left behind by these policies, both energy poverty and poverty caused by dangerous policies must be considered by this committee. however, we're never going to have those discussions if we continue to have reports-- the advisory council as guidance and administration. this council stated that projects like carbon capture, nuclear power, research and development, or any road improvements would not benefit communities. are you kidding me? these findings are against what

i believe, my colleagues across the aisle generally believe, and that we should all be concerned with, that these are the principles that are supposed to guide the administration. if we continue down this same radical path, we're only going to put more people at risk. mr. holley, energy poverty is real and communities experience it. how can the policies of shifting soly to removal increase energy poverty in the community? >> oh, simple, when you switch to solar and renewables, it's going to drive up cost of price of energy this these communities. and i'm not against transitioning, but we've got to do it slowly and sensibly. >> i agree. what do you think the impact of that will be on people's. >> in terms of jobs and community it's devastating. i had a chance to go back to appalachia and southwest

virginia with are my grandfather was a black coal miner and i've soon the poverty. there are people with blue tarps on the house with tires holding it down because they can't afford to get their roofs fixed. that's how bad it is in appalachia. >> i spent an entire day in mcdowell county discussing just those things with people that live there. you probably have seen the white house environmental justice advisory council's report on environmental justice. as i mentioned, the report outlines a multitude of policies that wouldn't benefit a community such as infrastructure repair, procurement of nuclear power, carbon capture and research and development. what do you think of these findings? i mean, how would they increase energy poverty. >> i think again, it would be devastating to the communities and one of the things we've talked about, too, minority impact sets. let's do a study to show how

these policies will impact the vulnerable communities and a start to help us all understand how the environmental justice and these policies, what it will do to these particular communities. >> and we all share that. what policies should we put in place to reduce energy poverty? >> sensible energy policy that won't harm the environment, it won't harm the people who need the energy to move. >> thank you very much. i yield back my time. >> all right. next, bret mckeachen, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair for this hearing and this opportunity to have a conversation with these knowledgeable witnesses. the theme that i want to talk about right now is consultation. and i'll direct my first question to ms. coleman flowers. part of the administration's

work on this initiative, and in my work with-- have been on discussions and coordination and outreach to communities. meaningful participation in this process in from the impacts of the communities can help me assure that we're truly adjusting the needs of these communities. as you've worked in this state, can you share with us, what is the benefit of this type of consultation, what else can befall the communities if they're not consulted with? >> thank you for that question, representative mcceachin. >> i come from a community, lived in rural communities and lived in poverty and often times people dealing with well-crafted solutions don't know what it's like on a day-to-day basis and i try to take people firsthand. pamela rush who died last year in july from covid because her

home, which is not energy efficient and had been that way for quite some time, a mobile home where she got a mortgage that she shouldn't have received, but her family was suffering from a lot of the issues that we talked about today that most people have never even dreamed about. we've taken people there who couldn't stay in the house more than five minutes because they had never seen anything like that before. and when we don't consult with communities, you don't go and see for yourself, oftentimes people are doing more harm than good and i would always invite everyone who is involved in policy, some people often times are trying to use an urban lens to solve the problems, but the same thing is true for environmental justice. if you had to live down in st. james parish and smell that stuff day in and day out and then have to, you know, deal with it on a regular basis, i think that people have a different kind of perspective on it. so we have to consult with the community because often times they know what the solutions are. they've never been asked. it's usually been crafted by

people creating the problem, instead of people that want to be part of the solution. >> would you agree that we in washington have to resist the temptation to try to find one solution for all communities rather than consult with them, because as you've suggested, often times they have the answer and someone needs to ask the right question. >> that's correct. i think i'm not an expert on flint because i didn't grow up in an urban area, but i can tell you about living in louns county and going to an outhouse and et cetera, and i think that we have to consult with people in communities because there are different problems in different communities, but i also think that it's important to note that the people in the community often times have the solution, they just haven't been asked. >> right, i couldn't agree more which is one of the challenges of implementing this program we need to make sure that we are consulting with these folks and letting them come up with solutions and help them implement the solutions and get

out of the way while they fix the community. >> ms. cooley again i want to thank you about your testimony. and indigenous people should be consulted thoughtfully from the earliest stages, legal policy, ethical and best practice requirements should be followed to make consultation meaningful. while this practice has drajically not always been followed by the federal government in interaction with people, can you tell us what it looks like when it goes right? >> thank you for that question. well, i think it's been outlined that when you provide meaningful partnership, adequate financing access to resources, that a community thrives and you provide that support in the long-term.

the-- there's a statistic out there it says that the native american community received 20 or $3 per person towards the emergency funds where the average u.s. citizen received $26 per person and there's a big difference in that. so, you're giving them not just a seat at the table and not just checking off a box, but you're taking that meaningful action to engage them, to remove that barrier and also, strengthen tribal sovereignty and you're also honoring that trust responsibility that the government, that they have to native american tribes, and whatnot. so, thank you for that question. >> thank you. madam chair, i just want to reiterate again, that we must invest in environmental justice and disadvantaged communities

that have seen historical underinvestment and we need to listen to them as we look forward to reaching a carbon zero society. i appreciate the witnesses weighing in on how we might do so. i look forward to working with my colleagues in the administration to reassure that we follow through on your-- with meaningful investments in communities not just a one size fits all response. madam chair, i yield back and thank you for your courtesy. >> thank you for your leadership. next to ranking member graves. you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, ma madam chair. i want to thank you the witnesses for your input. ms. flowers, you were on the white house environmental justice advisory council, i believe, and there was a recommendation in that report on page 55 and it said, it would be unreasonable to have any climate investment working

against harmed communities. so it would be unreasonable to have any climate investment working against harmed communities. with that in mind, should the united states be pursuing any policies that support directly or indirectly forced labor or slave labor or child labor anywhere in the world to advance clean energy goals in our country? >> well, that's a good question. first of all, i can't speak on behalf of the-- but i can give my personal opinion. i think that the united states should support human rights no matter where it is, but i also believe that we shouldn't do any kind of harm. i've seen it when i went to st. james and st. john's parish myself. i am just, you know, fyi, when i trace my family history, i can trace it back to louisiana to some of the original cajuns

that went to canada and so i have my interest in what happens in louisiana is more than as an activist, but also having family there in the island and the parish. >> yeah, that's-- we're having a family reunion in december, should come. >> we might be cousins. but anyway, i would love to i think what we have to do we have to find solutions as the previous question that was asked, there is no one size fit all solution to this problem. however, i think that what the intended statement was, this is my opinion not an official statement, is that we should do no harm in communities that have already been harmed. >> thank you, i appreciate that. there was another issue that we've kind of been trying to work through on the committee a bit and it has to do with carbon capture, so capturing or pulling greenhouse gases out of

the atmosphere. in a recent report by the biden white house, they endorse carbon capture and utilization and they talk about the important role that says, quote, there's a growing scientific concensus that carbon capture sequestration and carbon dioxide -- can accelerate deployment of technology around the world and they're commit today accelerating it. the environmental justice report appeared to take a little bit different approach. do you have an opinion on whether or not you believe that using carbon cop tour and removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere should be a solution as we move forward? >> in my opinion, we shouldn't put greenhouse gases in the atmosphere in the first place and concerned for my grandson and generations to come, but we

have to go to the community. there are some communities that might support carbon capture and some that might not. so i think the solution lies within consulting with those communities that would be greatly impacted by it. >> so if the communities are on board we should have local consultation i believe miss cooley cited. do you think that's the way we should handle how to perhaps use that technology or not? >> with he will fthat-- well, if that community is open to the technology. again, if they're against it you have to have consultation at the end of the day, you mentioned we can't force people to do that. we see that with the covid vaccine, but i think that we can find ways which we can come to some kind of common ground how we're going to address the problems through carbon capture or some other way. the report makes note, and again, that white house environmental justice advisory council reports, it says that there should be an end to

subsidies to investor-owned utilities. the biggest incentive or subsidy that the investor-owned utilities benefit from is actually the incentive for wind and solar, the production tax credit and the investment tax credit. does that -- is the tax course opposed to that subsidy as well and you think we should remove those. >> i do not speak for the task force, but i think that, you know, you may want to ask the-- ask for concensus. you've got to remember people represent places around the country and i don't speak on behalf of the task force and i don't have an opinion on that. >> thank you, madam chair. >> all right, next up, rep levin. >> thank you, i have questions for the panel, but address the

disappointing and inaccurate comments about my state, the great state of california made by my friend and my colleague mr. graves who seems to often confuse electricity rates with electricity bills. he's fond of talking about electricity rates, but our constituents, his and mine, we ultimately all pay bills. ... facts, as i know my friend likes mind and colleagues to do, louisiana has significantly higher electricity bills than california. louisiana ranks 41st for the highest in the nation. and let's not forget that clean clean energy sources are generally cheaper than fossil fuels. back in 2020 there was announces the found solar power is 20% to 50% cheaper that it had projected just the year before.

the analysis goes on to say this. solar is now the cheapest electricity source in history. i'll repeat that. solar is now the cheapest electricity source in history. bottom line is that every few years we hear about the predicted death of california. i've been involved in california public affairs and politics for my entire adult life in every once in a while we hear california is dead. every few years when we hear that we know that's only a matter of time before those nasty caters are proven completely wrong once again. so my standing invite to my friend mr. graves, exist to visit our great state of california anytime company with our policy leaders, ask them tough questions. bring your fossil fuel industry talking points. whatever you want to do let's actually have a good discussion rather than reciting tired talking points. i'll also say this.

this pasture we found that california is head and shoulders above any other state when it comes to creating jobs and growing our economy. we added more than 1.3 million jobs since april of last year. that's equal to the entire workforce in nevada and is larger than the growth in texas and new york. first with challenges. no state is perfect. we have a telework to do. we have problems that have to be solved. but let's stay in the realm of facts. i'm going to turn out to ucla's doctor park, and go bruins. i want to ask about grid reliability. how could an unreliable electric grid worsen the impacts of extreme heat on low income workers and students? >> thank you. grid reliability would be a terrible issue especially in light of when extreme test it.

if your electricity the sailing when theou demand is high whichn the summer tends to be right when the temperatures high and people are buying during conditioning, given what we know about this detrimental effects on student learning, and by the way very divergent and unequal effects by race on student learning, as well as on worker safety and health i think would be a big problem. >> thank you for that. ms. cooley, i want to turn to you. what kind of access to native american tutors have when it comes to clean energy generation? are the resources we can provide to help make sure our native communities have access to clean electricity? >> thank you for the question. native american communities to have access toti the resources such as windit and solar that ae required to develop clean energy facilities. what they don't have is the adequate or reliable financing, the training, resources or access to those renewable energy

careers and also the infrastructure that they could greatly help in reducing the reliance and negative impacts on fossil fuels and nuclear, well, nuclear energy as they come from a nation who has heavily relied on in the past on fossil fuel, that in strike to industry. the potential is great g so we have to tap into it and we need that support in the form of financing and access your i just want to also say that if you invest in this type of infrastructure for tribal communities, also have the opportunity in the future to help other nontribal communities if there were ever to be some type of natural disaster here i think a good example is the blue lake renteria tribe in northern california. during the wildfires in the past couple of years when pg&e shut

off electricity to reduce wildfire threat, their micro-grid actually supported surrounding nontribal communities and also patients that were most at risk. so with that, thank you for the question. >> thank you. i'm out of time, so chair castor, from the great state of california, i yield back. >> thank you. next we'll go to mr. carter. you are recognized for five minutes. >> they committed just think all of the panel members for being here today. mr. hollie, i'd like to ask a couple of questions. i want to thank you first of all for testifying today and hearing what i believe as in important view on the issue of our mental justice to you and i should meet at the same concerns about the policies that my colleagues and i have been discussing and it also appears we share a passion for fishing and it's the representative of the entire coast of georgia over 100 miles of pristine coastline. i will fishing.

in fact, this is my hope it is one of the all of my life in some of my fondest memories are fishing with my dad as i was growing up and i want to make sure that my sons and grandsons have that same experience as i had as well. you and i've engaged before before, mr. hollie, on an issue and present in energy and commerce subcommittee environmental subcommittee hearing and want to revisit some of that. it had to do with lessons were learned from the cancellation of the atlantic coast pipeline and the harm it did two communities. in your testimony for today's hearing you go some of those thoughts when you sayay that you fear the same will happen to healthy not thriving communities that have relied on good paying oil and gas jobs for generations. can you just for my reference and for the reference of my colleagues can you speak just for a little bit about the effects of removing a good paying jobs in industries from environmental justice

communities? >> absolute. for someone to tell you i docked at savannah when i took a boat from florida. >> my grandfather k coalminer. i saw what happens there. it's a shame. right now in all of these places, they have jobs in the oil and gas industry and they are concerned what will happen if their jobs go away. their lives will be completely disrupted. one of the guys has been working there for 27 years. to get him to train at another job at age 54 is a little unrealistic. >> what areas are most at risk for this kind of energy poverty? >> it's not a white or black

issue, it is an american issue. it's all the communities. it is senior citizens, low-paid members of the community, minorities. they are struggling the most. those are the ones the environmental justice is supposed to protect. >> when you talk about energy poverty, some americans are spending more than 25% of their income on the electric bill. the price of gas has gone up more than 45% from a year ago. by these increases and inflation going up, what will the infect -- what will the effect to be on those communities? will this increase poverty? >> absolutely. energy is a fixed price.

when prices go up at the pump, you experience it everywhere. let us, milk, everything goes up -- the price of lettuce, milk, everything goes up when the cost of electricity goes up. so these people will be impacted more than anyone else. >> you talked a little in your testimony when -- about encouraging electric vehicles. it's great but if energy prices and gas goes up, who will end up bearing the higher cost? >> the environmental justice community. >> that's what frustrates me sometimes. i don't think some of my colleagues understand that the

impact of higher energy prices impacts the mode of income the most. georgia is the number one forestry state in the nation and i'm proud of it but we have to address this and climate change but we have to address it with a policy that includes stable, reliable, affordable energy. i yield back. >> next up, representative kasten you are recognized for five minute. -- five minutes. >> if you can heat your home or drive your car without using

fossil fuel, do it. but we need to invest capital to save money. it's a problem if you are in the business of extracting fossil fuel. we have to make sure those people are protected. ms. flowers, you mentioned energy efficiency. some people [indiscernible] a lot of utilities and states have tried to provide resources to pie the up -- to provide the upfront capital and it is not worked as hard as it should have to make sure we have access to more efficient homes. any suggestions on what we

should do federally to accelerate the access to capital for people who might in the -- you might not be able to afford the initial investment? >> it's not my area of expertise but as a consumer who has talked with people who have had issues with access to capital, we should make sure there are green banks set up in their community the and that capital is available so businesses there can benefit. because what happens no matter who is responsible, the communities. benefit and someone comes in from the outside and takes the lead and leaves the community poor. we have to make sure the homes are energy-efficient. in alabama, my home state, a lot

of people are living in mobile homes and one reason we have a high rate of dying is mobile homes. power bills are easily 400 or $500 a month and they live off of $1000 a month. so make the capital available in the communities that need it the most. >> i hope in the plan we are able to make sure the capital is available. dr. park, your testimony was fascinating and i'm interested in what you mentioned about regional differences in how costs are borne. it brought to mind a prior witness, michael greenstone, and

his work. he has dedicated a long time to the cost of carbon. can you give me a sense of these differences? what is the disparity and why should we be thinking about it? how does it very regionally? >> michael greenstone is sort of like the trunk of the tree of knowledge that i have branched off of. we've been talking a lot about the potential for clean energy policy to be regressive in terms of who bears the cost. in theory it's true but it's like saying you could die from

heart surgery. yes, but it depends on how you do it and how well you do it. i think many colleagues would agree it comes down to smart policy design. there nothing inherent to be regressive in terms of the outcomes. in terms of regional disparities, the answer is we are still learning how big the disparity is. we know a lot about the physical impact of climate change and how it might very. -- vary. i could give you a table about what to expect for the next 10 years with a lot of precision but we do not know how much individuals in particular areas, how things -- the effect of heat

on electricity bills, health, learning, etc. my guess is the regional disparities are very large and the federal government will have an important role to play in spreading out risks. >> thank you. i yield back. >> there is no doubt we would all like to see the data. >> i want to make a point in regard to things said by ms. flowers. i grew up in alabama.

my dad was a longer. he had a 10th -- logger. he had a 10th grade education. later he put new roofs on houses. i understand what it is to work in extreme heat. i was on the football team and we had practices twice a day on turf that was 110 degrees. would you agree fiscal health and condition is a factor in how people respond to extreme heat? >> is physical health a factor? absolutely. >> thank you. my dad's parents lived in a house that was heated on a wood burning stove.

they cooked on that. ms. coley, although the navajo people did not arrive in my area until 1400s emigrating from canada, but i'm sure your research shows mega-droughts that had an impact in the indigenous people that were in the region at that time. >> that's what archaeologists say but that's a different session. these mega-droughts are talking

about are happening more frequently and maybe back in my ancestors day they did not happen as much, but yes they are happening. >> they were actually more frequent than an lasted longer. to some lasted over 100 years at that time and the science says it was more errant then than at any other century. they were longer and worse at that time. it was because of climate change. mr. hawley, i appreciate you being here. i want to touch on something about lowering energy costs and what has happened with hydraulic tracking and how it brought down the cost of natural gas. it lowers costs of heating and

cooling. it should make it more economically feasible for low income houses to keep their homes cooler. there are studies out that says there are 17 times more people die from cold than from heat. i also found that because of the lower natural gas costs it is estimated it saves 11,000 americans from dying each winter. i have brought this up many times, pembroke township in illinois, 85% african-american, they do not have a natural gas pipeline. they heat with propane and

wood-burning stoves because they cannot afford the utility bills. would you agree that it would be good to get a natural gas pipeline into that township? that is what jesse jackson is trying to do. >> yes. if there are more pipelines running under a city or state, it's not going to hurt anyone. >> i just want to point out that even though the recommendations from the white house about no new pipelines that that will be very detrimental to the low income people who need additional infrastructure. my time has expired. i yield back. >> representative huffman you

are recognized for five minutes. >> jerry, you are muted. >> still muted. >> there we go. it was telling me i was having trouble with the host on muting me. my audible now? oh good. now i can talk about my friend garrett graves and the stubborn

case of california. we have corrected him a few times now. but today we have heard a new creative set of allegations drawn from a lawsuit, easy enough to file so i will state the obvious. in california like everywhere we have industry funded groups and lawsuits aimed at blocking climate reforms. if filing a lawsuit and lobbying a bunch of provocative allegations is enough to make them true, rudy giuliani would still have a law license and donald trump would be president. with few exceptions the people and experts who have dedicated their lives to environmental justice in protecting disadvantaged communities, most

of them agree fossil fuel pollution is a huge problem and climate change impacts are huge problem and if we care about disadvantaged communities we need more climate action, not less. that's why i am pleased that the american jobs plan commits 40% of the deficit into climate to disadvantaged communities. a microgrid at the red coast airport will provide clean renewable power and flexible power that elementary -- that eliminates greenhouse gases. that's what we are doing in california. the blue lake rancher rio was a

previous microgrid i was pleased to support. they are one of the partners on the new microgrid. i want to give you a chance to respond to mr. hawley's claim. he's become a frequent flyer for our republican friends in these hearings. his views are really an outlier to those who have dedicated their lives to serving the disadvantaged. this notion that maintaining our dependency on fossil fuels is somehow good for people of color because it provides cheap energy and jobs. so i am wondering if you could speak to what you have seen happened in california, where i believe our climate programs are generating revenue being used for several things that are helping disadvantaged communities. >> thank you representative

huffman for that question. as someone invited here to talk about the findings of the staff report i will tell you the tribal nations have the opportunity to not be so reliant on the central grid on the fossil fuel industry. i come from a community that has felt and seen the impacts of mostly negative and the reliance increases resilience against power outages and less reliance off of energy sources off the reservation. it can help tribes achieve academic -- economic sovereignty

and stability. >> dr. parks, same question for you on the job side. not everyone can get into you see santa barbara so i love ucla. thank you for being part of our hearing. please speak to the upside of new jobs from clean energy. >> i'll start with the general point, that we have focused a lot on the potential cost of clean energy but there are hidden benefits that will benefit low income communities, particularly in terms of reduced air pollution, which now know has very detrimental effects on health, student cognition, worker productivity. the oil and gas workers mr.

hawley has referred to might rely on the industry for their jobs but it is also poisoning them and affecting their health. these are things we need to bear in mind as we have a holistic conversation about the cost and benefits. >> thank you. i yield back. >> >> thank you. next we'll go to mr. gonzalez. good to see. you. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for holding concern today and to our distinguished witnesses for their testimony. i think it's fair to say advocating for environmental justice is relatively easy, to just say yet. what studies he is facing politically inconvenient facts about the feasibility of some of the policies propose or in some cases recognizing aggressive advocacy may direct community attention away from problems that pose a greater or more immediate public health threat

on the communities in question. i would argue this political dilemma has been on full display over the last few weeks despite a biden administration setting ambitious climate targets labeling carbon emissions as an accidental threat that will disproportionately hurt low income and minority americans. knowing this will bring down the high gas prices. currently hurting low income families. mr. hollie, i don't wantin to spend a ton of time on california. i've lived there before. it's a beautiful state but it's run horribly, in my view. ohio is run much better which is why i i live there. but in any event after california and limited their cap-and-trade policy, researchers found it did not deliver local emission reductions -- >> we will have to leave this here as the u.s. senate is about to gavel in. it's part of a long-term commitment to bring you live gavel to gavel coverage of congress.

the senate will continue work on biden administration nominations with the boat started at 11:30 a.m. eastern. senators will take up an infrastructure built with the vote expected at about 3 p.m. eastern. and now live to the floor of the u.s. senate here on c-span2. the presiding officer: the senate will come to order. the chaplain dr. barry black will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. almighty god, who remains the same when all else fades. thank you for loving and using us for your glory. guide our senators in the