my name is rachel and i'm the managing librarian of the brooklyn heights branch of the brooklyn library temporarily offering lobby service out of the new center for history as we anticipate the opening of our new branch this full. it is my pleasure to introduce

this event tonight on economy whole the history of a free black brotherhood. i am excited to be given this honor in part due to the connection between the library friends group and it's a robust group that supports the library in so many ways. i was asked if as a branch we would be interested in supporting a virtual book launch and after discovering the story behind the book and seeing the review and reading the review of "the new york times" i'm shocked at the opportunity to be able to host the program sharing this monumental book but as the accolades and publicity grew so did the importance of the program as she drew her friend on board the author, this has

become an event and we knew it. she shares with of the world of the free black brotherhood of new orleans founded in 1836 and supported the community through the civil war, white terrorism and the birth of jazz. this is american history that needs to be shared and it highlights voices that need to be heard and it is a deeply personal story as a new orleans native and a descendent of the communities of brotherhood. this book is a treasure and i am deeply excited about this conversation we are about to enjoy on economy whole, the history of a free black brotherhood. please take it away.

>> hello, everybody. thank you for being with us. i am incredibly excited to have the chance to spread the word about this book that i've been talking about for some years now that has surpassed my expectations of being a work of history that's an enormous sweep covering a lot of ground and has a tremendous importance and yet is readable and fun. i thought it's a very complex work and i thought the best place to begin is where you begin in your introduction. tell us how this book came to be. it's a story that begins with your father. >> thank you to everybody for being here.

i was already a writer by that time and i looked in the closet and saw all these journals and realized this was an important part of history. >> you can you describe what are the journals and what is the organization that produced them? the meeting of the economies and it's an organization that started in 1836 and what i realized in reading the journals i realized after reading the journal is it was probably the most influential and prosperous organization. >> what years do they cover? >> 1836 to 1935.

the organization lasted at least until the 1950s because that is when they were getting closer so they carved out more than that 100 year period but there were some places that were missing. around the civil war is missing. the journal is missing so there are a few gaps i was able to fill out by doing some research. >> and you talked about the fact your father always pronounced it in the french way. can you explain what the organization dated and the committee that it served? >> it was basically a mutual aid society that takes care of its members and their health.

they became more politically active in what was going on in the united states and the world. a. >> you described growing up in the 1950s in new orleans amidst a kind of erasure of your community history and which you were told stories by people with various memories of the past for stories that they heard about the past and that somehow yet did not quite connect with the official history and there is a beautiful quote in your book that i want to read with a man wrongfully accused of a crime that repeats over and over his account of the moment that proves his innocence.

i love that and i thought can you explain to us what were these trying to assert or to prove to use the analogy that you give us, what was missing from the official history? >> the history itself basically was missing. the history of the community of any sort of community except the white supremacist narrative you have to understand i went through segregated schools and in those we sort of knew what was going on because our elders would sit around for a longer time than we really wanted to listen and they would tell us about that friend you just brought home is this person's grandchild and did you know he did that. so we learned it like that. when i went to high school i

remember distinctly asking her what did the black people do in new orleans. >> i wonder if this was something that was an interesting distinction that you explained to the different definitions in new orleans as you were growing up. can you talk about that? >> there are probably hundreds of definitions but in my time it started you think of the white supremacy rearing its ugly head post reconstruction. what we adhere is there is a

quote in the book itself the daily newspaper wrote about when you hear about creole food they are white not negro. this is sort of went against our understanding and one thing i would like to make clear is creole is not a color. sometimes people think if you are light-skinned you are creole but it doesn't. it means the old world and the new world matt in louisiana and blended into different things so you could have people of african descent like any range of color. rarely are they white but there are white people that married europeans down the line that were what they call white creole. we didn't make that distinction in my neighborhood because we just felt it was the mixing of

the old world and the new world and we were not really into the race and color anyway. >> can you tell us about your own history and how you came to be born in new orleans which you've told me about and it's a fun story. a. >> now it's really complicated. my grandfather came from india probably one of the first to come to the united states in the 1890s. he came to new orleans and married a black creole woman and i say that because it was a black woman that spoke she was the granddaughter i believe of an enslaved person purchased by her husband and then freed.

that's different from the other side of my family whose the great grandmother of whom had children by her owner who did not free his children. they were born enslaved until they were 20-years-old and i remember asking my grandfather who is your family and he answered who wants to know. he wasn't really going to tell anything. because of that history of enslavement, he wasn't really proud of it, but his father was a slave. but they all met down in new orleans. >> and what you say perfectly mirrors what you described about the community that the economy was serving which was in the 19th century, multiethnic and incredibly inclusive. i was struck by the fact that

the economy welcomed jews and put out an offer to chinese who might want to join and i would love it if you could explain to those of us who don't know necessarily that much about the south what did the multiethnic's mean in new orleans in the 19th century. a. >> i don't know if they would do his best terminology but the people that had privileges because they were living in a segregated system so there were places that were white only and people that were nonwhite or they might call them color the people who came into the community and to tell you the truth if you look at many you will see they go into the community often. that's where they make their first businesses and it tends to

be quite inclusive. people needed each other and worked together and as i said they were not it's a promise it didn't make any sense to us. >> economy hall comes from an actual place and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about that place and its history and you are very eloquent in your book about the importance of actually having a place to hold meetings they said we are going

to build a huge hall across the street from the original building. it became increasingly political so they had people come down who talked about suffrage and they met about having the vote and voter registration so it became very important to the community. he discovered them because his friend was a member of the economy society and nobody wanted these books so it's sort

of storytelling and connecting. >> now let's talk about the physical documents. your father took them and you described beautifully the cover to put them in and luckily having a house that was elevated and katrina for example didn't damage the documents that already were water damaged because you mentioned they had to put them out in the sun and let them drive because they had gotten rained on but many years past and you became a journalist and writer. to talk about your return to these books that you hadn't had

a lot of very deep context with until then it seemed. >> i knew that the books were there because when i was a child everybody's at once the books got into the house everybody said don't touch them, they are important, you are a child, don't touch them. i had in the back of my mind sometimes when i come home i would look in the cabinet and see. after i had been away for a long time though and seeing the way that it was interpreted i wanted to read and see what was in them and when i saw the handwriting it tells you these are people that are very educated. i was drawn to that. then to find out he had been in

the bureau and all sorts of things. >> to see the beauty frankly of some of the excerpts from these documents and these are minutes of meetings and i'm just going to read one short excerpt. love is a beautiful dream. the aspiration of the known to the unknown and ravished god created the world only because he needed to love. that's not what you expected to find. it's striking that in a sense these are literary documents.

were you surprised by what you found in them and the hold they ended up taking over you and your own literary life? i was surprised by how literary they were in a way though i knew my father and my father's friends so they were telling each other you should do this and i write in the book he would drive from new orleans to canada each night to live in a place without segregation but it was one of his friends who told him you don't live around here, get out of the country. so we wrote these encouraging words to each other. but it wasn't surprising that he did that because i heard the

same sort of language exactly. what about the language of these documents you described it as french-american. what is the language like and how is it different from just french or american english? >> it's not english until about 1926. they are writing entirely in french and then a little broken french and a little broken english and by 1926 they go mostly to english. the way the french read in those sentences was sort of like an english construction offering for example when they started to

get around the time of the civil war when they got around they started using words like [inaudible] and i thought that this

i would get somebody, there was st. peters university who speaks something like 16-18 languages. i just asked him, like, what

does this mean, because these journals weren't in english, i had to understand the geology. so he could read french, spanish. that took about five years. after i did that, i started -- he, and sort of as i was going along, i saw names of my neighbors, i saw family names expect people that lived in the neighborhood. so, you know, that a made me a little bit closer to it. and then sometimes some really sort of spiritual thing would happen. for example, there was a fellow who committed suicide, and he wrote a suicide note. and i was in the library, and i didn't know who this guy was. and i saw -- [inaudible] i saw her sitting at one of the

microfilm machines, and i said, have you ever heard of these people? and she said, that's my ancestor. [laughter] and she didn't know that he had committed suicide, and that was the first time she had seen the letter. so, you know, that a made me think, okay, i just better continue this. it took me about 20 years. had i known i was going to work on one book for 20 years, i don't think i would have worked that long because i was trying to be a published writer. i had a full-time job as a teacher, i did a couple short stories in a short period of time. that is the timeline. [laughter] . when did you reengage with that in the role of oral historians to try to fill out this picture

and what were those experiences like? >> those were some of the most fulfilling experiences because some of these people were old friends of mine. [inaudible] then they would tell me about the kind of music that was being played there and the parents didn't want them to go sometimes. did you feel like it further enriched your own relationship to your own community? >> sure if you know anybody from new orleans, we don't really

leave. we are always -- we can live somewhere else but they would know how i was connected like they would find out my friend and i connected at least and she found that from her parents that were both members of the economy in the 1850s. i will always carry new orleans around with me as you probably have seen. when you began and the sense that you caught a moment where more of this existed in living memories and i'm guessing than does now a lot of these are

stating and it's so crucial to get to people and record them and can still remember. >> the four people i was talking about, the 100-year-old woman and her daughter the second step when i started seeing the names and to see whether i could talk to their older families. but it was luck that my dad found the book and it was locked that i was a writer and found something in the book and it was luck that i had spoken to these

people. >> how many meetings include the presence -- it's really nice. [laughter] it's nice to find out some of these events. >> now i am curious about how the fiction writer and journalist undertook the job of trying to synthesize and crystallize this history and material into a story. you make some bold choices and some of them you alluded to earlier but you chose to focus on one particular person, luke

are -- >> the french pronunciation but we can say it in english. >> he is a fascinating figure with an amazing history. i would love if you could tell us about him and what it was about him that made you feel like he would be the one to lock in on for this story. >> there were so many things going on. >> not just for a historical account, i'm a fiction writer and wanted to move like a novel and from 1812 to 1892 he was present in so many things.

he had in in fact taught on the side and became part of the reconstruction government and he was the grand marshall that was covered in new orleans and it wasalso covered by "the new york times," so they mentioned the celebration and we were able to get a lot from that and then he was very instrumental and started out life as a poet so he had this beautiful handwriting and every once in a while they would say he gave spontaneity so how can you resist somebody that stands up in a meeting and gives this spontaneous point that it was just wonderful. i love this character.

he was politically active and named his children after writers. all of his boys were named after the poet or writers so it was really fun to follow him. >> so it was a combination of his sensibility and his own literary awareness and the fact that he was present for so many historical events and involved in the -- and he could bring all the rest. >> he was the go to guy. he was very precise every time he went to something new he would number them and then he gave the content page so you

could look at the content page and see what was going to come up, so that made it really easy and clear to read his minutes and if anything important happened he would be underlined and make explanations. .. we know what mattered to him, he was a helpmate to you. >> usa lot of fun. in fact >> it must feel as if you know

him. you know, feels like you know his personality, you know what mattered to hum. he was sort of like a help mate for you. >> yes. he was a lot of fun. in w fact, at one point, because he was a guy, there was one point he didn't agree with another one x he saw him on the street, so the two men came to the meeting, and they talked about this. and one says i'm still blue in the face because of your cane. [laughter] . they embraced so closely they were like one. it's beautiful writing is a lot of fun. >> i want to take this moment to say in the chat they think

are appearing for this book these are amazing anecdotes and remarkable tidbits. they're very, very flexible to read and i urge you all to buy it for yourself and your loved ones. for sure is a big part of what makes us so readable. the other part is you, you bring us into these moments with a full array of scene setting tools that i think probably were honed in your time as a fiction writer and a journalist. you bring us census, closing, smells, you really put us in the moment. and it is tremendously compelling. i am a wonder because you also have a gigantic quantity of footnotes. you were relying heavily on sources but also on your own imagination. i wonder if you could talk to us a little bit about the

craft challenge of deciding where to draw the line about what you were willing to imagine, and how you negotiated those questions. >> there is imagination in the setting of a scene in choosing a scene. the scene itself is proof for it put it this way, the night they had a meeting in 1863 there's talking it was november, i looked up the weather on that date. i looked up the time on the days. i was able to say that i know for example walked into the room was who gave the speech. he had to walk into the room because he did not get the speech from outside, right?

and i know the meeting began around 7:00 p.m. the sunset was at 6:00 p.m. now i know it looks like right? walked into the economy home just about the time the sun was setting. the room was warm because everyone had their overcoats on it was corroded think of six and a people or something i don't know for but hundreds of people hundreds of men packed in a room it would be sweaty and moist and the plaster walls, i can do that because it's not imagination. let's not imagination for any of the words in their the codes were in the journals, basically would not let me get away with anything to me there

was one street called ursuline street. when did it become a street? when was it an avenue was it an avenue in 1842 wooderson avenue 1857. i found like five references have different things. we checked out everything everything and there's been checked out thanks to kathie. >> sounds like it's not so much imagination is using your tools as a writer to connect the factual dots in ways that bring the sensory quality of it to life. and in the moment. >> rights. itself is, i have to feel fiction that's the kind of reader i am. on the way i've taken information fiction is through my senses.

my five senses that's all i get. for me to it feel anything it's how everybody feels through senses. for my reader to feel anything they have to know what it smells like and how it tastes with the sound as they are hearing. when they are in the room. and also brought a little from journalism cited american journalism. i got some pieces in these times that are very sensuous not sensuously accessed seat but sensuous in a way to what it felt like after katrina. in fact coming through the senses. >> you mention katrina now on actual to jump on and ask you a question. i was surprised to hear you right in your book that in a sense the biggest disruption of this community that you are

tracking going back to the early 19th century really was katrina. that is the event that has really fractured the community in certain ways. that was sort of shocking to me that in all of those years and events of this century is one that has been so disruptive. he did talk a little bit about that? >>'s most of these people most of these generations that i'm talking about live in the downtown areas of new orleans. where the levees broke. so the flood came into our neighborhood. the elders with their 70s, 80s, 90s at this time. we lost that connection. a lot of them there was one couple you will read in the book that drowned in their house who were very closely

connected to the home. most of our elders were evacuated them my cousin evacuated my dad's home. took them out of town but then they're getting heart attacks and strokes and they were out of their environment. i think the statistic was more than 80 people who were in new orleans at the time of katrina were born here. it's a city were people say they don't really leave. so this disruption of having all of those downtown neighborhoods flooded out losing those elders from one thing or another, >> you also mentioned basically that has resulted with a number of people leaving the city have not returned. i believe it was almost 100,000 basement guests almost 100,000. those have not returned. while you can read some posts on the website about this.

the houses were flooded, it was very difficult to know the whole white supremacy think down the road. we are in redline neighborhoods how we going to get enough insurance how we going to get loans to rebuild our houses? there's all kinds of problems like that. who could get loans to come into the neighborhoods? a lot of people with money usually from out of town. so we could not rebuild or be built back up by corporations. standard type housing. be with a lot of money and they have $203,000 from house it was a bargain. people bought the house for

$5000 and cannot get a loan because they were fired. [inaudible] >> is exactly what the economy was there to do. to try to hold the community together to find a tangible way to help each other. doesn't seemed like we have anymore. spector having a very hard time. there's still people i have a lot of friends who still live here but we lost a lot. they were operating in a time of enslavement. educated part of their goal was to help one another franco

houseboat the one of their friends to get their job. the new part of her house i can remember they framed up the back of the house. they framed up the house and half a day and i don't know if my books as much of anything. everybody went on saturday over to their house. not as house committee was built. >> i'm wondering how your community has reacted to this remarkable contribution you have made to it. it synthesizes so much history. >> well, they like me a little bit more at. [laughter] what can i stay.

arguments thumbing through the index trying to see. [laughter] >> that is so funny. it is that personal. [laughter] that is exactly what is going on. then if they're not in the book, the fire they not in the book. >> that is so funny. it is a manager of how diffracted my own past is that i cannot even imagine being part of a community like that. but that is really soaked telling in human nature. we all want to be included i make sure our instant ancestors were given the proper due. >> exactly, exactly. i have to remind everybody when you're looking at history this something i learned, you are not responsible for ancestors.

and you not cannot take any benefits or ancestors. if your ancestors were terrible you don't want to claim then. [laughter] you have to make a choice here. do something for yourself. it's not just about your ancestors. [laughter] 's >> you're in orleans right now? >> imi amperage. >> assist the house where you grew up? >> yes this is a house right. the porch behind me is the porch where my dad. [inaudible] this is the house we come to bear able, and didn't float we were able to keep the house after katrina. i lost my dad though he had a heart attack after he evacuated. but we were able to keep the house, this is a very special to me. the book is special to me in many different ways.

>> it's special to be in your house with you. which is something we really would not be able to do if it were not for his virtual nature of our meetings for there's a silver lining to actually be present in the house were so much of this took place. i feel like i'm seeing some questions come in here. so i'm going to take a look at those. we will hear from some of you. >> i have a birthing at like to talk about too. plus get some questions for spirits to the current then you can fold that it whenever you what. was there a connection between the economy in the church? >> there was a connection. they were a very attached to the catholic religion in the very beginning. because the catholic religion to get them and to see the government wouldn't pay for example the government did not recognized america being

slaves been people of colors that catholics first recognize them as married people. they were attached there for a while. after the civil war when white supremacy -- after the civil war and near the end of reconstruction white supremacy took hold it also took hold with the church. and many of them broke away from the church. he started seeing them go more return what having séances and going more towards spiritualism of the protestant religion. the catholic church was segregated too. they were not up to that. they were not going to go for that. so lots of them left then. >> one comments, you'd stay close to your computer. when you lean back some people having little bit of trouble hearing.

we went there we have a question i really love it based on what you just said about the family connections to your book, do you know the family? >> yes my aunt georgia. [inaudible] >> >> host: a while okay. was almost killed by a mob? >> thank you for mentioning that. so remember i said they are trying to get suffrage for black men right? the constitution at that time in louisiana constitution when it first came back into the united states, lincoln wanted the southern states back into the united states as fast as possible. so he did the solution in louisiana came back. the came back however without

giving the whites the vote for black. many blacks decided they were going to change that constitution. that convention was set upon by the police. the police came and killed everyone they could in that room. they are and so were several other economy members. lou sheehan was there think his son was nine or ten years old. they stabbed the boy, they shot out his. the shot cap low, he was almost killed when his train to come out of the building people trying to get out of the building because they're cornered. he was almost killed but they grabbed the man in front of him when he's coming out of the door and killed him so he was able to run away. kaplan made a statement he said that the floor was slippery with blood. so the things i wanted to mention i'm glad you brought this up please history, we

think that right now everything we do is new, right? and it is not. these men were fighting for voter rights for broder registration was going on at the economy haul their people trying to stop voter registration of blacks. that sounds pretty familiar right now, right? the wrist police violence because a lot of the police were members of the white supremacist groups. there were militias that went and tried to kill elected officials legitimately legitimate officials there were mobs they would try. you can learn something from this book i don't be too preachy but realize there is a playbook for white supremacy. it happened in the 1860s. if you know the playbook you will see what's coming down the pike right now. you can do something about it. because you will know when they start denigrating people in the start using the police to kill people, when mobs

start taking duly elected people and threatening them you got something going on this going to boil over. >> how was economy haul related to plessy versus ferguson? >> the members of the economy society were probably one of the first -- they were among the first maybe one of two black mutual aid societies started in the 1830s. plessy versus ferguson was in 1890. they were many more, hundreds of mutual aid associations by that time. many of them supported the case. the president of the economy society he was also a member of the citizens committee who were involved in taking the case to court. so the economy raised money

for it and he says that i know many of you are in support of the legislation of the jim crow law. they were very much against the jim crow law. and the plessy versus ferguson for those who do not know was a case of a stake into united states supreme court to separate but equal. spent okay i want to ask omar question and then maybe we will end fairly soon. i just wondered if you could talk for a minute about music. so many of us associate new orleans with music, with jazz in particular. you write a lot about music in the book. can you talk a little bit about the economy and its relationship to music over time?

be too sure pretty few go to the new orleans jazz and heritage festival he will find the economy to based on this particular hall because the economy had music all they threw. they had philip on it, that offer that all these things in the early years in the last incarnation of music in the economy haul is jazz. those same people who used to come together and support each other, build houses, raise the children when they were driven out of jobs white supremacist legislation they played music to make money. one of the places they played music was an economy haul. they would have a party they would raise money with the party they would pay the musicians that way and money they raised to go to the poor people or the nuns. in the money would circulate in the community that way. so if and when you read the book will see louis armstrong played in the economy haul and he was discovered in the

economy haul. the people came to the economy haul where the first people to take him outside of new orleans. >> host: another question is, did economy haul have members who were enslaved as well as free people of color? >> guest: they did not, they did not. they did not. there were probably a little snooty at number because these people were millionaires or talk about right now. one of them had homes it is lee, france in louisiana. so they did not mix with the enslaved no more than the new york society mix with people in other parts of new york. the other thing it's was against the law. when there was slavery free people of color and the enslaved could not mix. fact the police start attending the meetings i do not want to go into law but there is a fear that the free

people would incite slaves to revolt. the father was in the revolution. there's a good reason for them to be afraid. so the police really did not want the free people of color and the enslaved to mix. they would go to jail and the police start attending the meetings in the 1850s. they did not do it. besides the social class thing, they would also go to jail everybody would go to jail. spilt when this is done i urge you to look at the chat and the recording we have granddaughter, other people who know other people so it will mean more to you than it does to me. we are pretty much out of time but i am going to ask you one final question, which is kind of a tough one. you quoted this from the economy's mission to help one

another and teach one another while holding out a protective hand to suffering humanity. you cannot shoot much higher than that. we live in the moment of such tremendous division and racial tension and political strife. i wonder what economy haul can tell us, if anything, that's a lot of weight to put on here, what can the story tell us about how to improve our own situation and live better? >> may i quote you from economy haul? i was not expected that question but i. [inaudible] this is what the president said to the members 1858. it says african blacks that whether it is with the oppressed unjustly but for patriots they must follow the

test of paternity income out of the isolations that are pressers for they would like to see for us forever united, terry each other part having only hatred in our hearts for one another. so i think if we can say what we are to do we should not have hatred in our heart for one another and we should join together to try to fight the oppressive. >> host: hear! hear!. i think that is an excellent note to end on. it has been such a pleasure to talk with you. i'm excited to continue the conversation. thank you all so much for joining us. and please, i urge you to buy this book. thank you. spoon met thank you so much i hope you've all enjoyed this conversation tonight is much as i have. if you would not have the honor of being able to read this book, economy healthy mystery of a free black

brotherhood i absolutely urge you to. ♪ >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday, american history tv documents america's stories. and on sundays, booktv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. that's why charter has invested billions building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications, along with these television companies, supports c-span2 as a public service. >> during a recent virtual discussion hosted by the john locke foundation, matthew spaulding, executive director of president trump's 1776

commission, and peter wood, author of "1620," took a critical look at the 1619 project. >> the whole thing is based on a series of facts and claims and a narrative that just gets the overarching interpretation of history wrong. it says that america was founded and began because of and for the sake of in order to defend slavery. that's the essence and central idea that animates a all of american history. that's both factually incorrect but also justover after. ingly -- overarchingly historically incorrect. and my point is it's intended to get around the actual facts of history in order to spin this other argument to go after the very claims of things like the

american founding and american history for reasons that have to do with establishing the fact right now in current politics, this country is systemically racists and, therefore, we need certain policy outcomes. that's factual problem, and i guess i use it in air quotes here, about the whole 1619 project. peter, would that be fair to say? i know you have more to say than that. >> well, that's entirely are on point. this is the project that america was racist from the get go, that in august of 1619 slave ships came to jamestown, disgorged passengers that were captive, captured in the caribbean and brought over by pirate ships.

nikole hannah-jones says that's the beginning of slavery in america. now, that's a very murky point because jamestown didn't recognize slavery. they assimilated these people to the category of indentured servant. within a but years, most of them were set is free. they became full landowners and citizens of this country. so the very basic idea of 1619 as the beginning of slavery in america, that itself is false. but it's that seed that's then grown up into this giant bush of claiming that every significant event of american history was part of this scheme by which black people were oppressed and treated as chattel. there is, of course, a history to american slavery, but she

managed to get even the most basic part of it wrong. >> you can watch the rest of this program on our web site, booktv.org. use the search box at the top of the page to look for peter wood, matthew spaulding and the 1619 project. ♪ ♪ >> british writer charles dickens is credited with creating some of the world's best known fictional characters. over 2,000, for that matter, scattered throughout his 14 and a half published novels. american authors, journalists and politicians often refer to situations as being dick kens january. jenny hartley, i emeritus professor at roe hampton university in london, has published three books on charles dickens, the most recent titled "a very short introduction" by oxford press. we we asked professor hartley to talk to us about