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>> they support cspan2 as a public service. >> i'm a librarian here at this public library and before we begin, i would like to thank my department for your support especially adult services supervisor. in my programming partner isaac who is also doing support for us behind the scenes today. as well is my public service it demonstratorgh from her constant support and mentoring and today were joined by two incredible authors and activists. jenara nerenberg and melody - and jenara nerenberg is the founder of the diversity project and also a journalist and rospeaker in the author of the book that we are here for today. my camera is a little blurry.

rising in a w world that was not designed for you and our special host today melody activists attorney professor and award-winning author. melanie is also written a series of titles. her latest book on ancient poet changed my manic life. you should pick this up that is a good one. andha to our viewers, if you hae questionsti during today's discussion feel free to enter them and then chatted also put them in the q&a button at the bottom of your screen to ensure that t they don't get lost. and if you're watching us on today, a comment with your questions and we will try to get those answered as well. and without further ado. it melody i will let you speak away.

>> i have so many things. [laughter] and thank you so much for having us. i am so excited to be here to talk about this amazing book. because i'm a person is striving in a world that was not designed for me so i saw this book i learned about thisma book, i hae bipolar disorder and assisted living in america and what is now thankfully over. ... ... you doing? someone who put a book out during the pandemic it has been tough how is that going for you? >> guest: thank you melody and so happy to be here talking with library having us i'm doing okay, now we are sort of

emerging pandemic base year and i think forer many people thougt it, an interesting time for many of us. i'm really glad the book so many readers today we are celebrating the paperback i came out and hurt your account in march which was a dark timing is ticking its way i'm so glad. >> me, too. i think the work you do, that's something i want to start off might not be knowledgeable and very interested in the work you are doing t, if you could tell s about the project and how the readers can connect with that as

well. >> thanks for acting asking. this project started about four years ago in california and it was the nexus of personal expression for me, i'm a journalist and was kind of figuring out what was going on with me and my mental makeup, i started getting small groups together to talk about merit the diversity i started inviting authors in to share research from different perspectives in a group so we have live events and san francisco and wead had a conference and now we are doing a lot on instagram for anyone who wants to follow along and last year at the start of the pandemic before the horrific incident with george floyd, i

sat down with my family, and interracial family, i grew up in interracial family in a multiracial setting like my neighborhood and my school and i was like i think this is an interesting nexus, interracial life, love, friendship and intimacy that doesn't examine much so i started reaching out to other writers again, should we talk about this? they're doing this on instagram as well, we have a lot of filmmakers and writers and actors were unpacking interracial life, it's something that doesn't get talked about as much so we are at the beginning of that as well so for anyone who wants to check out both of those works, instagram is the place right now. >> thank you. we spoke a little before in

preparation for this and were talking about the idea of media representations around divergent and health conditions and you well know they are notorious for this so you see that changing? if so, who is leading that and how do you see it getting better? it's still pretty fast. >> i am so intrigued by the topic, media representation, how mental illness, neuroprotective urgent from disability more broadly, how it's portrayed in the media. i have long-standing interest in film and theater and things like this so i think you see this with many different groups, marginalized groups. what happens is there are stereotypes that are in the public imagination have to do with social norms and then you see these things depicted on the

screen and its sort of this constant conversation, a dynamic between what's happening on the ground and what's happening in the media something like neural diversion, mental illness and disability is no exception. i've been digging into this research so it turns out film close-up tends to be more intense on characters that have mental illness, people who are depicted as mentally ill are we more likely to did beat depicted as violent more than actual occurrences where life so i think it's something we need to work against and i know melody, your work is an amazing contribution to all of this and i didn't get into that too much in the book, a little about the

end of resources but the book is all about reframing our conceptions of what it means to be mentally different so whether it is adhd or bipolar, how can we take ownership of that narrative again and ultimately change the public conversation? >> one of the things i wanted to bring up, i initially read the book on kindle so i have 61 highlights. the ending, there is this moment where you talk about overhaul, page 212 with a number of people expressing loneliness on the rise, more people become ill and turn to doctors best put in the position of meeting to figure out people's social lives. the doctors are getting burned out and also support others he

turned to end the cycle goes on without people being able to openen up and connect with othes about their internal wife, nothing will change. q : talk about connection in the importance and i thought it was present in terms of you didn't know this was coming up with the pandemic and that was part of having credit during the pandemic initially that i found comforting in terms of the reminders and i found there's a lot of best isn't overtly spiritual but i felt was spiritually connected and now knowing you, i knowll that comes from somewhere but i read that in here and i thought of, we are healthier for more connected we are so having been so disconnected for so long, how do you see that evolving? >> you mean like how we emerge from the pandemic? >> yes and in some ways, narrow

divergence people have been good at this in a way in terms of being familiar with this connection it be people who don't have that kind of makeup are not quite so familiar not being connected. within disconnected because the world wasn't built for us or structure for us and in some ways i found personally the pandemic wasn't quite as hard on me as it may have been on more neuro- typical people because for them it was that information, it's like i'm alone. i've been here, nice to meet you. not my first rodeo on this so there are lessons these people have been able to seek for those who are going through the pandemic and for some it was a real shock and i know you have

had such a relief with the book and found that the paperback is out, you've heard from people like me who are incredibly grateful that this came out, i know it wasn't great for you but i think it came out in the front perfect moment, that it needed to come up because it helps not just those of us dealing with this but a lot of people who have grown into this disconnectedness inadvertently and have no control over that. >> some interesting points you are making. a lot of people are finding the book maybe they have read articles or have had how women are being left out research regarding neuro- diversity. it's interesting, i don't know if the pandemic is allowing more people to dive into this material because i think like

you are saying, so many of us live this way and are sort of outside all the time, like yourself i am a writer and home. in my head, always thinking, that is kind of normal for me but i do think what you're saying about maybe people who aren't are finding much more understanding about their family members, their colleagues, their kids, their parents. i'm hearing from a lot of people saying tears streaming down their faces because in hindsight, they are realizing one of their parents may be are no longer alive, had x, y and z and its a healing experience to be able to put a name to that.

then in terms of how we emerge from this pandemic. , i do hope that all of us are able to take some lessons and things we've learned around what it means to live more quiet or not be rushing around in an aggressive state all the time which i think many, we wish for the world anyways -- i wrote something in the book and put it up in a quote card and i couldn't believe how much it captured this moment, i'm going to paraphrase my own quote but i wrote i look forward to this day when what is considered -- let me grab it really quick because i think obviously we didn't

anticipate this happening in the context of a pandemic but i think many were, in a way, hoping the world would run think write down. here it is. i look forward to the day and what currently a hidden sensory world for many people becomes the global norm, what are labeled as sensory ailments actually hold promise for healing a fractured and mtraumatized world that's in desperate need of repair so i was meditating about these topics for the last several years, like many of us in a way that the pandemic did force this writing down, obviously it's not in the way we wanted it but perhaps it has people thinking.

>> at the beginning of the book, you noted this concept of how we need to start re- concerning what it means to be human which drew me in really quickly. you talk about how knowing narrow divergence is -- how does knowing your divergent people of makeup 20% of the population with this concepts of mentally ill? perhaps we are really talking about humanity as a whole rather than a set of neuro- typical not divergent individuals given so many go undiagnosed, we may be looking at an entirely different concept of what it means to be human, that is so exciting to me because i feel that different concept, your speaking for so many people because understanding that, what doors does it open for people have

been shut out before? >> i have been thinking about this a lot lately, it's interesting because the deeper you get into neuro- diversity research or talking with neuro- diversion people, i don't know if it's just me because that is my world and i see everything throughout months and color, it actually becomes more difficult to see neuro- typical to be honest because the more you talk to people, the more they open up with you and take off their mask and remove layers, you start realizing some of the things are universal so i think that is important for people to know and the reason we don't currently see the world in that way is because we have this culture of being closed off people are not

encouraged to talk about their mental health or emotional health or challenges or needing to see theto doctor for somethig where we don't have it in our culture but imagine if it was more open, would we be where we wouldn't even need this kind of terminology of normal or abnormal, neuro- typical or neuro- diversion? i believe that's the direction we're headed in and we will get there someday. a lot of us were activists and advocates and writers in this space are in some ways, we are in the early ground of this kind of thinking. >> that makes me think about labeling. there's a part of the book were you notes being able to find a name with experience of healing and liberating, at the beginning and for the end once i embrace

my own labeled categories and identifications, truly embrace them and for my family and friends and colleagues on board, i almost didn't need them anymore. what i learned about them, i adjusted, we all adjusted now i have a thriving life. this idea of embracing your label makes you not need others, exactly what my experience has been for mike to find labels incredibly liberating at first and then to be like, what does this really mean? i wonder what that has been like for you and you write about it in the book for sure but since the book release, i think you're providing a different outlet for others to see themselves reflected in the book, not just your experience but the incredible research you do to put this together based on your ability to hyperfocus.

i am so grateful for your ability to hyperfocus because you put all of this material together in a way that's not just easily digestible but entertaining so i'm curious about this idea of labels and how much is liberating when stopping liberating and when is it no longer necessary how it has been for you. >> thank you for finding that thread, it is so cool to hear how it resonates for you and hopefully everyone watching and listening i tend to describe as the labels are entry points, they are entryways. entryways to empowerment, liberation, knowledge, being informed and i talk about that in the book, the importance of this knowledge and information and for me, i find healing to have something insight got it and then you kind of absorb it

so i think for many neuro- diversion people for discovery aspects of ourselves, jumping into the activism, no movement, it's something that's very exciting and important for. then like the quote you are reading from tickets integrated into your life in all aspects of your life like your family and work in your identity, it's just something that doesn't need to be said as much because it's just part of you and people know it the word of integration, it's not to say they aren't important and i thinkev everyone has their own journey with this and i do encourage people to do what works for them. i think some people continue on,

they really find a new line of work around this particular label or diagnosis for others it's just integrated and they just continue living their lives and just have a different perspective and a differentnd shift how they see themselves so for mee personally, it was a journey learning about neuro- diversity the movement, i had been thinking about this kind of approach and philosophy for a while and i didn't have to work for it so that was exciting and been learning about how women were left out of the research, adhd and autism and focusing on this trait of sensitivity and how it was prevalent for people no matter your label or diagnosis and in the book i talk

about treat getting across and then there was a process of opening up about all of this to my family people i worked with and certainly the book coming out was very healing as a relief, i'm releasing this to the world and now it's been a year end it's awesome seeing how people respond and everyone has a different story entryway to the book. for themselves or their parent or sibling, i hear from a lot of therapists who say how much it's impacting their practice and recommended to their clients which is exciting because i want to see change, and the therapeutics industry. then it's also allowed me to kind of move on to other things.

i'm a journalist, we've got projects going so no matter what i do in my life and professionally the neuro- diversity world is such a huge part predicatess integrated into whatever i do next so i think that's exciting for people to know, for everyone watching and listening in your own life you have different periods of discovery and integration that's okay. it is okay for this to become part of your larger story and you are not going to leave it behind. i got some feel they have to with this one movement or something, i don't if you felt that. >> i feel like that completely. you're stuck in that definition of what you initially sought in the diagnosis, the label meaning

and what it means later on for me, somebody like you has read about it, once you write about it, public it is out there. no one can out you. you're already out and you're owning it and not just owning about helping other people. again, we don't share the same diagnosis but i saw this in myself in the book. this is the best i read in all of 2020, it was. i'm so grateful for because it wasn't just that book, it's everyone you cited in the book, every other book i read because of this book.th i love that book. other books you cite and other writers are often women who have written work and you dig into that research away easier for me

to get a broad sense of what's happening within this movement that i've been in for so long and yet have never seen a book like this so that's partly why i was so grateful for that. the chat is blowing up i'm going to ask some of these questions. what are some ways neuro- diversion people can engage with medication practices and autoharp overwhelming into the internal sensory experience is interception can be. ier recall traditional approachs internal awareness are oftenln accessible to neuro- diversion folks and i'm curious about. >> that's a great question. i don't focus on medication a lot in the book and honestly in my own life, i am a movement person, i think you are, to, the type of meditation i've done are tai chi and i love to dance and

run so for me, all of that is far more appealing than finding myself sitting. i hear this all the time from other people that it's straight up mindful medication does not work for them so i don't know how to totally answer that but i would say i encourage people to not feel like they have to type a box or what meditation is supposed to be because we know so many mainstream things don't work for us so yeah. >> that's a great answer. i am not staying still at all for sure. there's another question here is as a lot of psych professionals and parents tend to tell me i am wrong when i speak about my own experience because they learned

it a different way for the research says something else. how would you suggest respondent in a situation like this? how can i make people understand the research in the world doesn't match on neuro- diversion persons experience? sometimes it feels like my selfd advocacy falls on deafen ears. >> that makes a lot of sense and i hear that all the time. again, we're kind of in the beginning of all office, especially in terms of representation of women and girls so this is why i think it's important to take the narrative in your own hands, for one. the second thing i don't believe formal diagnosis is necessary or even important, if we are working with the medical industry based on research literally 30 years old, it takes

20 to 30 years for the research to be integrated into the practice then how can you let those people tell you who you are or aren't? i think that is and you will find many people out there who are self identified. as i write the book, i did not have a formal diagnostic because of what i am talking about. that being said, it's hugely important for some, you need it for accommodations in the classroom and at work so it really depends on your individual situation so again, we are just at the beginning for the person who asked the question, know that there are so many people out there like us great answer. as another question for both of us, what helps you integrate your label? you have recommendations for supporting someone who is

beginning process of integrating different aspects of neural divergence? you want to go first? >> helping integrate people, people say the same person, there was a moment i told my husband, you can leave. if i could leave me, i would leave me him be careful to say you're crazy. this is not a new development for you, now you have a label for it but you are not a different person, that was one thing that was helpful to me. >> that's interesting. what helps me integrate it? i mean, it's a gradual process. in the beginning for me it was a lot of like -- i remember the day i did research popping up in my facebook feed about how women are being left out in the research and adhd and i read

these things and i was like up next me to a t, i have never heard of this? there are additional moments of oh my gosh and then being a very curious person, a journalist and writer and you've got that right of okay, let me dive into this. what is this about? i need to learn more so there is that part of initial period of discovery and then it's gradual, i think i did it one step at a time, absorbing information and slowly opening up to family and friends and then getting more serious about it. for me, that's how the book was born. divergent mind totally came out of this whole process of discovery. then you get more comfortable as you are more open like we were saying a few minutes ago, it just becomes integrated into your life so the more you can

they rounded in your own knowledge of who you are and present back to the world and the people around you and it will just naturally get ready. >> there's a question here whon says what suggestions you have for accommodations at work? i would say the same applies for students at school as well but more partly educating doctors on what neural diversity is really like. there's not like one page but it's are more complex than what they have in their textbook. >> yes i think accommodation are an interesting topic. in the book i focus on the topic ofoo work a lot because i think

it's an important fight in place of agency, your in the world and interacting with other people, your source of income and how you take care of yourself and your family so margo was at verizon now, everyone should look her up if you don't already know her. in the book we talk about things, usual things like where to sit in the office and having headphones and things like that but more and partly, it's the communication that happens. making sure your boss and colleagues understand you and you can share what you need or what you can't do so to me, that seems like an important piece because when you feel able to be yourself and ask for what you need and another thing i talk

about in the book and elsewhere is the importance of acceptance. when people who are autistic or narrow divergent feel really accepted both by themselves and the people around them, there are levels of depression and anxiety goes way down. that also means you can just do your work better if you feel better so again, i think the communication piece is important. i'd love to see schools and universities andld workplaces he introductory neural diversity training for everyone, i don't think it requires that much much as people need to be educated in the information needs to be out there so i definitely recommend fat. some places are doing that, some bigger companies but it needs to be more commonplace. >> yes and i think the more of us in different industries, the better that becomes.

i provide accommodation for my students whether or not -- some of them with this about his don't want to go to the disability resource center and say this is my disability and provide accommodations? i think it they find other professors willing to provide accommodations for my dental how people with specific routes to get those accommodations so that is another question from r sarah who asked, what is your vision for evolving treatment and support for the unit neural diverse community? >> room probably knows, work treatment is a little tricky because we don't want to get intoto talk and things like that so if we are talking about well-being, that's a great conversation to have so in terms of the evolution of our that's

going, i interviewed a lot of therapist for the book so grace who is here in california, she is great and she makes sure there's no food in the office the people's senses being overwhelmed, she even has, she makes sure fan and ventilation are not too loud soft materials, she's very attentive to what would feel therapeutic, for an adult which is important a lot of the conversation is around kids so it's encouraging now we have practitioners who are seeing adult population. honestly, i feel a lot of narrow

divergent people kind of fine their own hodgepodge of wellness, they have to put something together. for you and i, it sounds like we both love movement and dance, it helps us feel rounded and regulated and that kind of thing. again, for me i spent a lot of timeat in nature. i'm always going on walks and hikes and a classic therapist can be helpful but if the therapist is not informed around sensory stuff neural diversity, there will be limitations. i am intrigued by some partitions out there but i feel like a lot of them don't know

that much about the neural diversity perspective something i am extremely cautious about i want everyone to know is there is an element in the world where people want to paint everything to trauma but i just want to say you're having this because of x this piece to be looked at it i really disagree with that and i think it's horrible and there's kind of a resistance in some affect therapeutic community because they have been trained only see things through the lens of trauma so i think that is dangerous, i really do so i want to caution people if you encounter that, no that's a bit extreme it's something who want to push against it in the book i start off by looking at the history of psychiatry and psychology and all of this, the

errors made when people did become so fundamentalist wanting to pin everything on one aspect of one's existence and that is the kind of thing we want to get away from it it's also why i feel so strongly thatro individuals can put together their own narrative or pieces they find helpful in healing and not to just submit to one -- i hope this all makes sense. >> it makes sense. would you say the book itself is you creating that own narrative forg yourself? i sense throughout the book, some people benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy, you may be not quite as much but actually research this affects the things we do to learn about

ourselves and i hear doctor sometimes saying don't google it, not that google is the best place but read a book. this book was so reputed to me and i think people forget that. was this part of your finding that narrative for yourself as well? >> i think so. i was just talking with steve silverman the other day, people probably know, we were talking about my journey and i was say how writing this book was kind of like an investigative journey. i'm a journalist so this was my chance to diving so it was this simultaneous process of okay, i am on this journey of discovery, i'm going to figure out what i need to know and what is empowering for me and what's the story i need to reclaim?

and happen all of this information help everyone else out there on the same journey? there are so many of us out there so that is what came out, this personal story and a real hope for others to find their own healing journey. >> if i could jump in, this is a question for both of you. aside from neural which has been on my reading list for a while, if you have any other recommendations of books people can read better up-to-date and reflect more accurately the experience of being neuro divergent and necessarily a psychological textbook or something more scientific? >> you have a few in mind? >> you can go to our twitter

feed and see a list that was put together, it's a stelar list that i will tweet while you answer that question. >> on twitter, i do often shout out other books and at the top of my twitter i put together a list and a lot of people appreciate, these are books that came out in 2020, written by neuro divergent authors in different fields. that's what we want to see, we want the information and it needs to bee in the realm of psychology but there's a chef on their, and academic on their, there's a virtual reality expert on there, who want to see neural diversity knowledge and expertise integrated into the wider world. in terms of recommendations on

top of what i've shared on twitter, i think maia wrote the book harm, her book is all about gender bias in medicine and it focuses more on autoimmune issues but it's an important work and i always recommend nick walker, he's done a lot of mark pieces around terminology and changing perspectives within psychology and i recommend narrow and there's a lot. i do best in the book as well. >> thanks. in regard to other questions?

is awkward to be time to go through them all. >> i've always needed what i think i don't have. you can pick want to start and i'll look through. >> i have not read through them all but there is one about reading labels while including others. however, it feels like i'm becoming more of a target at work. it doesn't help that my psychiatrist relieves an increasing drugs as a quote fix. how do i avoid becoming a target? >> that is interesting and i don't have all the information to know exactly what it means to be a target, i don't know if you're talking about workplace bullying or using a neuro divergent person as a scapegoat which is horrible -- if you're

able to try a different psychiatrist, fact make all the difference. unfortunately, a lot of this information is so new and not integrated, it can be helpful to do your own research, a lot of even medical papers are available online and i know people who literally have to do that. it can also be helpful to literally take divergent mind with you to your therapist or psychiatrist office which i have heard of people doing to say there's research behind all of this, you need to know what this is about so it's a hard and tricky question without all of the information check out

different psychiatrist if possible and in terms of the workplace question bringing the book to work. >> i don't know if they can keep this up but they have a list we can put in different psychiatristst see how much mony they take from big pharma so you can see how much money they are getting from big pharma last i checked. great question about whether you are offering training sessions or if you have a group you'd recommend in terms of neural diversity training? >> there's different kinds of neural diversity training so depends on the specific. i certainly give talks and do events like this. i have offered a few classes in the past it really depends. people can reach me, my website is divergent list.com and i have a contact i just heard from

someone this morning who wants me to share our perspective or academic conference which is exciting, i'd love for this information to penetrate different fields so feel free to reach out to me on my website. >> i am checking the list, i see a question here so i'm going to see that you are not on twitter so i pastedou this into the chat so it's right there. >> i'm going to get this one, so far anonymous but one is melody, any plans on creating a workbook to go along with your book? the other, will you publish a pdf of resources with audiobook for downloads?

>> i'll answer that real quick and then the workbook. >> the audiobook is available. i hadn't thoughtht about puttina pdf together of resources. resource section appears in the back and also appears in the e-book so that's a great and easy option that you can download on kindle and apple and google books so all the resources are out there, it's a matter of finding the right format. in terms of publishing the workbook divergent mind is an interesting mix. it's journalistic and investigative but also practical and has a lot of takeaways and things you can integrate so i think for divergent mind, it's probably kind of on its own,

what about you, melody. >> my latest book, i'm not planning on workbook but i am putting this up for anybody, we are translating it into marcy's, thee original will be up on my website shortly which is the closest i have 12 workbook but i would love to do something together and i would love for you to do those trainings and i know you used to do conferences all the time but my dream is for you to go to every university, come here first. [laughter] you think of official training, i have been to training for it's like a white guy giving me diversity training and it's like okay, i'm okay with that. i feel like the people doing the training to frequently, it's one thing to be while first

something and another to identify as that thing in relation to race or neural diversity. for me, i can't buy in if somebody is and from that community, i'm like okay, he read a lot of books good for you, but you have not lifted. for me, what came through is that you've lived it. you can read plenty of textbooks,en one, just don't integrate so much material into one open book to give it all to you in one place but just don't have that perspective of recognizing -- you were diagnosed later in life, too so this is something you figured out later and there's legitimate anger, why women areim not partf this in terms of anything other than just being apologizes not this space to be like maybe i

interpret the world carefully, maybe that is a gift and i can figure out how to navigate the world that wasn't built for you and i saw you doing that over and over again and that's what i think makes this book so special and you are coming from that perspective, not just from the outside. >> thank you. we were seen before representation is huge and also a wire issue, i'd love to see more neuro divergent creators and writers in every field. we talk a lot about tech but i want to see hollywood and media and film so we can see our stories on wider films, it's really important. >> you cry said earlier he would share later with us, maybe we

can get to a couple of more questions. >> i can take a few more, melody, are you okay on time? >> i want to say what melody just said, i totally agree and we talked about this before we went live by but i really love this book. my favorite books of all time, i've never felt so understood and acknowledged and so validated and i have this sense -- i'm cracking up now, as so often happens when you read these books and theyre are writn by professionals in the field that don't have a lived experience, they just have the academic background it is so different from another woman diagnosed late who knows what this is like, when you are neuro divergent you don't know you

are, there's a tendency to feel lost and misunderstood it off and you don't understand what's going on so i'm glad you wrote this and framed in a way that we can acknowledge not a deficiency, it is a a gift. i was diagnosed artistic at 31 but had a hard time accepting it at first because everything i readad implied it was a deficitn now i'm very proud of my autism so i'm so glad you wrote this book so hopefully other women without experience don't have a hard time accepting things and they realize it makes them more beautiful. >> thank you. >> i'm taking over the question. >> thank you for sharing that and i amm so glad to hear that, it resonated so much. >> i have a question here from

anonymous, have you heard about colors of the spectrum jimmy kimmel, and some celebrities blowing up autistic twitter, autism speaks is problematic in a lot of ways, so many nonprofits for neuro divergent immunities in autism in particular, to have a lot of controversy and problems and those are typically the most well-known once, you have advice for allies to to navigate which organizations are informed by's northridge expresses those that are perpetuating harmful stereotypes? >> yes, the question, it tends to happen a lot, like a cause will be taken up and it gets a little controversial around who

is at the helm of the cause, fundraising efforts or an organization or a film so goes back to what we were talking about, representation it's so bohuge and i think people in the wider world need to take that really seriously so i don't have specific recommendations around certain organizations or anything like that and i have seen a little bit of this on twitter recently but it speaks to needing to shift the conversation as much as possible putting these efforts to have the people with lived experience and i think it's just going to take time i think the twitter community and neuro divergent community at large is good at

being vocal in expressing issues well i think a lot about this in terms of history and looking at how things eventually come together and get integrated into the world, it starts with individual actions and collective action build so i think we will see it soon. i think we're going to reach return, it's been exciting, melody and i have connected recently multiple times and there's a lot of other neuro divergenthe writers and creators and filmmakers and producers so it's going to keep pushing where more or less get to help design these things so i just encourage everyone to keep going.

>> i was going to go into another question. >> about masking. you write about masking and i was interested with an unconscious reaction, neuro divergent or not, i think it happens all the time especially with women and i wonder how much further out you can take that. >> i think that is a great question. for everyone watching or listening, masking is a term we use a lot, what does a person have toer do in order to get onn the world and what things we have to hide to appear normal

and it can really take a toll on someone after a while and it's the pressure that builds up and a lot of people just end up falling apart or melting down, shutting down many of us just reach where we are like not going to do this anymore, it's not working for me and i totally agree, i think, something i put in the afterword of this paperback print is the way what we call narrow and light introspect so what we think of as normal is often dictated by whiteness. this excessively property attached, closed off, like not real energy and way of

interacting with people, there are many different words for this but i find it really important and critical to connect those because i feel collectively our country is reconciling with this and we have sub pockets like the neural diversity community are talking about this so there is this energy of hey, what is this? why do weeh expect people to behave a certain way or act a certain way and who decides what's normal or not normal? what is behind back, is this white supremacy? i think it's an exciting conversation and i am excited for that to be out there more. i am excited to see where we go with this and i think artists will be important in this, the more that creative people

integrate these perspectives in their work in film, media, art we see in the exhibits, even social media, the more that these get undone, the sooner they will dissolve. >> on that note, shiloh had a question and i'm not sure since you are not necessarily a filmmaker, if you can answer this but shiloh asks, i loved your book, i totally agree with you, about media representation, i love neuro divergent individuals, have beautiful ideas around a better future for humanity, how would a neuro divergent person on the truth grow neural diversity find others to collaborate with in

develop a script? >> that's a great question, thank you for asking. i am thinking about this a lot, i have friends who are mostly friends of color collaborating with in hollywood to change the narrative around race and media representation which is so awesome. we've been in conversation around how to do the same for something like this ability representation, mental illness representation, so that is something i'm actively thinking about and excited to follow up on. i think it's going to be a gradual process, getting to know the industry g better, learning, finding people or we can all put our skills together around what

was this look like? but we have an incubator? in hollywood they talk about pipeline basically, pipeline creators like how do we make that pathway easier? for people to come from story idea tubing in arbeiter's room on set so for people watching or listening, feel free to reach out if you have experience in this industry and would like to look into that, something i am thinking about a lot and for anyone ready to jump right now, there's always fellowships, so many incubators. they are so extremely competitive and usually you kind of have to know someone or someone who can put in a recommendation so that can be tricky so we'll see if we can

build something. >> i want to be respectful of your time even though you did say and stay a little later, maybe one more question, i will let melody get out and then we can wrap it up. no pressure. ... i'm not interested in and diagnosis but panic attacks and communication issues to be i have a great work set up but what did i do to figure out my efforts?

>> that's areally good question . i think the question is what you need to do, is there anything to do. it depends on the individual. is someone seeking to be betterunderstood, seen ? or to try to have a name and a label for your own self knowledge e and there's a lot out there. there's my book which helps all of that justto give you a lot of information and shared stories of other women . you know, or are you looking for a certain kind of therapeuticapproach . like, help in your life y? some people turn to certain kinds of therapists or even medication. i just really encourageevery individual to do what works for them .me

so it sounds like there's something that the question asked her is seeking. so maybe get clear about what you're seeking. do you need help with something and how can you link with the right therapist or practitioner . if you're wanting more knowledge for yourself to pick up a couple more books, yeah, it depends. i think divergent mind is great for this kind of reader. someone who just wants to figure stuff out and doesn't need to have an exact medical thing because we're challenging that notion and looking at, so yeah. thank you for all the questions and thank you melody and lori. this was great. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast.

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